Advice needed on dating a divorced man
iam...@gmail.com
the most part we have a very open, honest and loving relationship.
He has been divorced for almost 2 years, though he and his ex were
separated for four years before the divorce. He has equal custody of
his beautiful son and is a wonderful father.
Recently we have had several arguments about money. His divorce was
pretty nasty and he pays his ex a huge amount of money every month, and
will do so for the next 9 years. As a result he has some serious issues
when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
the belief that all women are only after money.
This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
and when we go for dinner or buy a bottle of wine he most often pays
for it.
We don't live together but I spend alot of time at his house and I try
to contribute in as many ways as I can, financially and otherwise. I
spend money on him when I can and I often turn down dates with him that
will involve money and suggest other activites if I can't afford to
contribute. I have told him many times that I don't need any material
gain from this relationship for it to be of value to me, that I love
him. Yet his fear persists.
I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
relationship to disintegrate over it.
Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
how can I help him to overcome this?
longshot
>
> I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
> to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
> relationship to disintegrate over it.
>
> Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
> how can I help him to overcome this?
>
maybe helping him cope with the fear is a better alternative to helping him
"get over it". He will be bitter with every check he writes. It sucks. The
ex probably has a new sugar daddy & all the support goes to her as "free
money" to play with.
--
Be cool,
Longshot
DaKitty
<iam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109876669.2...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
How do your arguments start? Do you bring up money? Does he?
Does he vent about his ex, and you take it too personally? Does he have a
bad attitude about women and money and takes it out on you? Does he think
you should be making more, or that you should contribute more? Does he feel
that you don't appreciate what he does or spends on you?
If he has issues about his ex with respect to money, and thinks *all* women
are like that, that's for him to work out. First, he needs to be able to
recognize that not everyone is the same... then some time to accept it.
The best you can do is be understanding, and not push it to a point that
aggravates him. And you need to decide for yourself whether that is an
acceptable situation for you. You may not be able to do much for quite a
while to appease his 'fear', he'll have to work on that for himself.
Are you hoping to have a family with this guy? If you are, he may not be the
best choice, his resources are already taken up with his ex and the son. I
wonder if the part of his stress isn't thinking that you too want a family,
and he can't afford two situations like the one he has now with his ex. With
you making a lot less money, as you said, how to support a family is a
serious issue for a decent guy who knows he'll be looked at as a major
breadwinner.
And, if it bothers him that much when a woman makes a lot less than him,
then he needs to seek to date ones that make more money... it's as simple as
that. He may have to make some choices there, and not take it out on her
when he's not getting it 'all'.
melned
ex. I can understand where he is coming from. It sounds like you are
doing all the right things by helping keep costs low. I'm certain he
appreciates this.
I regard my difficulties with trust (money ... otherwise) to be the
appropriate behavior given the circumstances; I think it important for
you to understand this as well. We've experienced someone whom we
completely trusted turn on us. This caused me to question my own
judgement, so no matter how much I trust someone, there's a little
voice that reminds me "yea, well you trusted someone completely before,
and look what happened".
I think you are doing everything you can do at this point. Hopefully
things will ease in time. Counseling would probably help him.
Travis Hubbard
>in this to screw him over.
I'm a sole custody father and had some of the same feelings about money
after my nasty divorce. I doubt there is a way to convince your BF
that you are not going to screw him over. He is going to have to deal
with that one on his own.
Just be yourself and if he doesn't like it you might want to move on.
- Travis
http://divorce.travishubbard.net
Rog'
>I have been in a relationship with a divorced man for 9 months, and
> for the most part we have a very open, honest and loving relationship.
> He has been divorced for almost 2 years, though he and his ex were
> separated for four years before the divorce. He has equal custody of
> his beautiful son and is a wonderful father.
> Recently we have had several arguments about money. His divorce
> was pretty nasty and he pays his ex a huge amount of money every
> month, and will do so for the next 9 years. As a result he has some
> serious issues when it comes to money and relationships and has
> trouble getting past the belief that all women are only after money.
I suggest that you listen to DaKitty... hers was a most excellent post.
The guy is likely feeling quite frustrated and angry by his situation, he
may feel that everyone he's dealing with is out for a pound of flesh,
justified or not. As DK says, this is not something that you can fix."
You need to decide if he's a keeper or not based on who he is, not
who you'd like him to be. =R=
The Dave©
> If he has issues about his ex with respect to money, and thinks all
> women are like that, that's for him to work out. First, he needs to
> be able to recognize that not everyone is the same... then some time
> to accept it. The best you can do is be understanding, and not push
> it to a point that aggravates him. And you need to decide for
> yourself whether that is an acceptable situation for you. You may
> not be able to do much for quite a while to appease his 'fear', he'll
> have to work on that for himself.
>
> Are you hoping to have a family with this guy? If you are, he may not
> be the best choice, his resources are already taken up with his ex
> and the son. I wonder if the part of his stress isn't thinking that
> you too want a family, and he can't afford two situations like the
> one he has now with his ex. With you making a lot less money, as you
> said, how to support a family is a serious issue for a decent guy who
> knows he'll be looked at as a major breadwinner.
>
> And, if it bothers him that much when a woman makes a lot less than
> him, then he needs to seek to date ones that make more money... it's
> as simple as that. He may have to make some choices there, and not
> take it out on her when he's not getting it 'all'.
I think you're touching on something that's valid. Sometimes, we have
a bad experience, and we get mad and pissy about it and we tend to
associate everybody being like that. I struggle with this myself alot,
especially lately, as probably comes through in some of my posts.
Anyway, it probably doesn't help that we tend to be attracted to
certain types of people and the same thing may happen multiple times,
and we just convince ourselves even more that everybody is like that.
Often, once we figure ourselves out and become attracted to different
types of people (read: better people) we still have not gone through
the full realization process and we're still condemning others like we
were before. We've only come to the realization about ourselves. It
sounds like this may be the OP's b/f's situation.
Having said that, I believe that she can help him, but will have to be
patient and understand that she cannot fix it for him. That, he has to
do on his own, for the most part.
DaKitty
It seems like there are several solid hints of something like that
existing in the OP. I think that's why I asked a bunch of questions at
the beginning, to perhaps see a bit more of the dynamic. I was
thinking, arguments about money can have more than one root.
> Having said that, I believe that she can help him, but will have to
be
> patient and understand that she cannot fix it for him.
Yea, she can help along, to a degree. I try to be cautios with the idea
of 'helping along' since it seems like it's such a common pitfall of a
lot of relationship having two people trying to change one another.
A short little instance with my bf and I just a week ago, I voiced my
displeasure about some detail, and his response was something to the
effect of, well, I didn't mean it in such a negative manner, I'm just
that way... then he continued, I suppose I could try a little harder
and change the way i am (about that detail).
As soon as he said that, even though he was honestly and willingly
saying he'd put an effort to try and change..., I started thinking, oh
shit, I'm pushing too far.
So, I told him, well, no, I don't want you to start changing yourself
to please me. I said, well, now that you know what I like, if you
happen to think of it, that would be wonderful and welcome, but I think
it's just part of getting to know you, and knowing to take certain
things in a way YOU intend them, not the way I would read into them
(which in this case was a lot more negative than he intended it), or
the way someone else used to intend them.
...I hope that makes some sense... :)
Rog'
> I try to be cautious with the idea of 'helping along' since it seems
> like it's such a common pitfall of a lot of relationship having two
> [My B/F] continued, I suppose I could try a little harder and
> change the way i am (about that detail)... I told him, well, no, I
> don't want you to start changing yourself to please me.
IMO, you've got it right, since you can say those lines from the
old Billy Joel song, "Just the Way You Are"...
Don't go changing, to try and please me
You never let me down before...
I took the good times, I'll take the bad times
I'll take you just the way you are...
I don't want clever conversation
I never want to work that hard
I just want someone that I can talk to
I want you just the way you are...
And if you can't, then look for "Stormy Weathers" ahead. =R=
Barbara Didrichsen
[snip]
>I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
>to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
>relationship to disintegrate over it.
The only thing I'd add to what's already been said here is this: do
you feel like this is something you need to help fix? If so, you may
be saying or doing things that -- unintentionally -- aggravate the
situation.
Several years ago, a very dear friend pointed out to me that my
tendency to offer "help" in both spoken and unspoken ways wasn't
perceived to be -- well -- helpful!
As others have said, this is his issue. You can't fix it, you can't
really help him get over it. He either will or he won't -- and if or
when he takes his negative feelings out on you, all you can is remind
yourself that this is his issue -- not yours.
And yes, I know how hard that is to do ;-)) Going through something
very similar at the moment myself (not related to money).
Barb
DaKitty
"Rog'" <rcblin...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:F1LVd.127$c72...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Yea, he went on rambling a bit, little nervous saying how he's not perfect,
how he's got issues and a lot of faults, and how relationships aren't his
strong side, and how he should work on that... I smiled, reached for his
hand, gently put the other one over his lips to shush him up.
Then I told him, honey, I know you're not perfect, I've known that for a
long time :), guess what ... neither am I ! You don't have to be perfect,
I think I like you more just the way you are.
Then I told him... You know, some thing I really really like about you is
that your heart is in the right place, and that you're always trying the
best you can to do what you believe is right... that's a very endearing and
admirable quality in my book. I matters a lot more than 'being perfect'.
He was pretty stumped, in a good way, when he heard that.... :)
iam...@gmail.com
To answer someof DK's questions:
The argument usually begins when I notice him distancing himself from
me. When I ask him what'sgoing on and how hes feeling, he admits to
being terrified of trusting too much, that his ex screwed him and he
is afraid of it happening again. He recently brought up the case of
Kobe Bryant to make his point, and often makes generalizations about
women and money.
He says he consciously knows that I am not out to take advantage of
him, but his insecurity persists. Often when I offer to pay for
something he won't let me. In fact, I often feel incredibly
uncomfortable and guilty about the money he spends on me. At the
beginning of our relationship I was so uncomfortable that he would have
to promt me NOT TO order the cheapest thing on the menu.
Hopefully he never feels unappreciated...since I know he has this
insecurity I make a special effort to always thank him for the things
he does; I always voice my appreciation.
I have no desire to change him. I absolutely love him for who he is.
What I would like to happen is to see him begin to deal with a problem
that he himself readily admits to having.
We have no plans to get married or have children together, but we have
a really amazing connection. This problem is proving to be a major
obstacle in the growth of our relationship. Neither of us wants for our
relationship to end.
How have some of you divorcee's dealt with issues of trust in
relationships after your divorce?
Big RJ
Howdy,
I am a soon to be divorced dad with 50% custody of our son. My divorce was
not too difficult, and my STBX and I get along okay now. She got the house
minus a buyout, and she got credit for 1/2 my business. Ouch.
Here's how I handle your b/f's dilema. I will pre-nup before I marry again.
My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent. It's a
little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
does, and I have more assets.
I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of these
items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage doesn't
work out... And if she doesn't contest the pre-nup.
I have no reason to believe my g/f wants me for my money. She know's I will
pre-nup when I marry again. Simple. She keeps hers, I keep mine, and we
are together because we want to be, not because we are affraid that we would
lose 1/2 our crap!
Good luck!
Big RJ
The Dave©
> IMO, you've got it right, since you can say those lines from the
> old Billy Joel song, "Just the Way You Are"...
> Don't go changing, to try and please me
> You never let me down before...
> I took the good times, I'll take the bad times
> I'll take you just the way you are...
> I don't want clever conversation
> I never want to work that hard
> I just want someone that I can talk to
> I want you just the way you are...
> And if you can't, then look for "Stormy Weathers" ahead. =R=
Stop it! You're making me want to run back to the recent g/f. :-p
Bill in Co.
> "DaKitty" <conni...@yahoo.com> wrote...
>> I try to be cautious with the idea of 'helping along' since it seems
>> like it's such a common pitfall of a lot of relationship having two
>> people trying to change one another....
>> [My B/F] continued, I suppose I could try a little harder and
>> change the way i am (about that detail)... I told him, well, no, I
>> don't want you to start changing yourself to please me.
>
> IMO, you've got it right, since you can say those lines from the
> old Billy Joel song, "Just the Way You Are"...
"Old" Billy Joel song????? ROFLMAO!!! Billy Joel doesn't have any
"old" songs, you teeniebop! Try, say, the Andrews Sisters, and you might
get closer to the truth. (I know, I know, that was before your time, and
all the newage rampant bullshit ligitations)
mL
I'm not a man, but here goes:
I had some of these feelings when i was dating my husband, who was divorced
from a leech-woman and also paying a lot of alimony. I, too, was divorced,
but broke. Recipe for disaster? :-)
Within myself, I always felt that i needed to "prove" that i wasn't after his
money. Thing is, it's difficult to know what to do. If i'd offer to pay for
something, it could hurt his pride. If i let him pay for it, it could make
him feel like i'm taking advantage of him. I never did understand what i was
supposed to do, like when we'd go shopping, becuz if i paid for my things
separately, it felt awkward. But if i let him pay, he'd make cracks about
buying my stuff for me and that hurt MY pride.
Maybe it IS a "pride" issue, ya think?
When i moved into his house, i gave him a small amount of cash when i could.
My income was/is way less than his, and i've always lived on a tight budget.
It felt awkward when i'd give hime $ even tho we had agreed upon my
contribution. Maybe we both were confused. I still have a hard time keeping
up financially in this household and neighborhood, where i'm making very
little yet others seem to buy whatever they want. I still feel out of place
in that regard.
Just some things to consider in case your relationship gets more serious.
We're married now and doing fine. I bring in what i can, don't spend much
on myself, and i would have no problem if he were to decide let's downsize to
a cheaper home and spend less $. I want him to be happy and not feel
pressured by me. And our time together is much more important to me than
anything anybody could buy.
I hope my experience might have helped give you some ideas, anyway.
mL
>"Old" Billy Joel song????? ROFLMAO!!! Billy Joel doesn't have any
>"old" songs, you teeniebop! Try, say, the Andrews Sisters, and you might
>get closer to the truth. (I know, I know, that was before your time, and
>all the newage rampant bullshit ligitations)
LMAO!
Bill, bill, bill.... CHILL....
:-)
mL
>My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent. It's a
>little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
>does, and I have more assets.
Is she able to claim a renter's credit on her taxes?
Also, do you have to claim it as rental income and carry some sort of
insurance that is specific to landlords?
>I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
>interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of these
>items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
>certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage doesn't
>work out... And if she doesn't contest the pre-nup.
Where this could get sticky is, say, you and she are married for decades,
living in that home, sharing the upkeep and maintenance. (this happened to my
grandma, btw). If you were to pass away, would she get kicked out? My
grandpa screwed up and didn't have this specified, and she got booted out into
a trailor. Being a community property state, i don't understand how it
happened, but it did. Maybe it doesn't apply the same to deaths as to
divorces. I really don't know, but i always worry about that stuff.
DaKitty
<iam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109886085....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone.
>
> To answer someof DK's questions:
> The argument usually begins when I notice him distancing himself from
> me. When I ask him what'sgoing on and how hes feeling, he admits to
> being terrified of trusting too much, that his ex screwed him and he
> is afraid of it happening again. He recently brought up the case of
> Kobe Bryant to make his point, and often makes generalizations about
> women and money.
Guys normally go back and forth a little bit, between distancing themselves
a tad and then getting closer again.
I cant' say I can relate to it, I think it's a typical 'guy' thing, but it's
the normal part of the process, they need to come closer, then back off a
tad to 'think clearly' so to speak, then come closer again emotionally.
Us women for the most part are capable of getting closer ad closer and
closer with our feelings, in almost linear fashion, and the only time we
feel the need to 'distance; ourselves is if something isn't going right, if
something is 'wrong'... So when guys do their normal 'distancing', we start
thinking something is going on.
When you ask him what is going on, he tells you what is going on, he's
thinking about money... And he probably feels like he's being out on the
spot to explain his feelings, and feels like you want him to be closer, and
he's doing his normal 'rubberbanding' at the moment, so probably in an
attempt to not make it sound like he doesn't like you, he tries to make an
excuse for his needing to distance himself for few days.
Mind you, if he was married before, to a woman that doesn't understand men
well, he's probably quite used to getting punished for his normal male need
to have some autonomous time, and to do more of one thing at the time, the
way guys normally do.
Here's a little example, my bf is used to being nagged by his ex for taking
care of the kids (cause she won't), so when i see him get distanced, I tend
to ask, you okay, anything going on? He almost gets little defensive, and
starts saying, well, DD needs this, and DS needs that... and starts to
ramble about his schedule, and how he's tugged in a number of different
directions... Now I could see our busy schedules as a problem... BUT... I
have to ask myself, he's been very sweet last couple of weeks, it's probably
time for him to ruberband and focus on practical things and life in general
before he feels all warm ans fuzzy again... he's not like a woman, to want
to be warm and fuzy *all the time*.
So, when I hear him get slightly defensive, I ask him, am I just being a
'girl' and wanting to be cuddly and talk about feelings and 'connect' when
you're preoccupied with hunting down your 'to do list'? He usualy giggles
and says, yeaa, I'm little distracted at the moment. I laugh too, and
usually say, okay, carry on, I'm pretty busy here myself.
It does help to have a boyfriend that is aware of little differences between
men and women....
> He says he consciously knows that I am not out to take advantage of
> him, but his insecurity persists. Often when I offer to pay for
> something he won't let me. In fact, I often feel incredibly
> uncomfortable and guilty about the money he spends on me.
If you do, don't let him know that. If he insists on paying, or offers to,
he needs you to accept and be happu that he did, other wise he may end up
feeling like you don't trust him with knowing his abilities. May end up
feeling mothered, rather than appreciated.
> At the
> beginning of our relationship I was so uncomfortable that he would have
> to promt me NOT TO order the cheapest thing on the menu.
Yea... keep in mind, $10 or $20 difference between the cheapest and most
expensive thing on the menu isn't going to make or break his bank. he's
probably mentally set aside and accepted spending a certain amount of money
for entertainment, and then wants to have some entertainment time, without
being constantly conscious about every penny. Especially in newer
relationshios, guy wants to kick back and relax with you for a while, not
constantly think about reality.
> Hopefully he never feels unappreciated...since I know he has this
> insecurity I make a special effort to always thank him for the things
> he does; I always voice my appreciation.
Jut be happy with what he does, if he cares about you, he likes to see you
happy with things he does for you. That gives him his little knight in
shining armor moments that guys like, and need in small dosis.
> I have no desire to change him. I absolutely love him for who he is.
> What I would like to happen is to see him begin to deal with a problem
> that he himself readily admits to having.
Well, it's not really for you to judge whether he's dealing with it or not.
Does he ever bring uo the money to you on his own, like asking you to be
more frugal?
Or does he talk about money in response to you talking about feelings?
> We have no plans to get married or have children together, but we have
> a really amazing connection. This problem is proving to be a major
> obstacle in the growth of our relationship. Neither of us wants for our
> relationship to end.
I think money isn't really the central issue here, I think you're little
farther along with your feelings than he is, not by much, but enough to have
a bit of a difference, and I think he's falling back on 'money' to defend
himself for not being as far along emotionally as you. It could be that he
doesn't understand his own feelings well enough to know what to tell you,
and tries to explain them intertwined with trusting about money issue.
Try this for a little while, when he starts distancing himself, let him,
without commenting. Don't ask him how he feels... Most guys aren;t really
big on talking abut feelings, especially if they sense they're not as far
along as you are. They worry about being labeled the bad guy, and they're
used to not having their feelings understood or count for much...
(especially after a divorce), so they'll try to come up for a logical
explanation why their feelings are where they are. If you back off a tad,
that will give him a chance to express his feelings without worrying that
they may not be enough, let him think he's a tad farther along with his
feelings then you are, and I bet he will start felling little more
comfortable to open up. He won't have to worry abut being the bad guy.
DaKitty
"The DaveŠ" <n...@no.com> wrote in message
news:AILVd.297$5b5...@news02.roc.ny...
No, not the last one.. there's a "new and improved one" just around the
corner, run to her ;)
DaKitty
"Big RJ" <not...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RvLVd.2378$C4...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
What if your girlfriend (potential future wife) makes more money than you,
and has her own assets equal to, or more than yours, and she wanted a
prenup? Or if she was mistrusting of your motivations, because she had more
money than you?
Rog'
> admits to being terrified of trusting too much,...
What's remarkable here is that he admits to having any feelings. :-)
What I suspect is that you equate his feelings with an attitude which
you can, thru sheer logic, convince him is wrong-headed. It ain't
gonna work. My suggestion: When he starts spouting off nonsense,
don't tell him he's wrong, let him vent, and say, "Hon, you're acting
like a hysterical female." <kidding> Perhaps try to get him talking
about it and let him draw his own conclusions. Maybe: "Is that
how you really feel about me?" =R=
DaKitty
> <iam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The argument usually begins when I notice him distancing himself
> > from me. When I ask him what's going on and how he's feeling, he
> > admits to being terrified of trusting too much,...
>
> What's remarkable here is that he admits to having any feelings. :-)
Hey! That's what I said...
(in 3000 words or more)
Joy
>
> Here's how I handle your b/f's dilema. I will pre-nup before I marry
> again.
> My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent. It's
> a
> little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
> does, and I have more assets.
>
> I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
> interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
> these
> items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage doesn't
> work out... And if she doesn't contest the pre-nup.
If I were your gf I'd insist on some sort of time clause, in case you guys
happen to spend quite a few years together - because you are effectively
preventing her from building equity in a house, which in that case would
have a negative impact on her finances for the rest of her life. Say you're
together 20 years and split up - and she's helped pay for that house,
directly or indirectly - but then she gets left homeless? She deserves to
build equity over the years same as you do.
You're also setting yourself up for that kind of awkward "I don't really
belong here, this isn't really my home" situation that ML suffers from. I
don't think you want to deliberately do that, do you?
mL
>You're also setting yourself up for that kind of awkward "I don't really
>belong here, this isn't really my home" situation that ML suffers from. I
>don't think you want to deliberately do that, do you?
Good point too. Different reasons from mine, but that could very well happen
if someone were asked to live in a home but sign an agreement saying it's not
theirs. Like why would someone put their pride, heart and hard work into
something that isn't even theirs?
pamela
"longshot" <hoosier-...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:38p643F...@individual.net...
have to pay the price for what another woman did? If he can't see past
that, if he doesn't see you as "you", and if you are constantly thrown in
the position of having to "prove" your not out to get him, he's not a person
you should get involved with. And you deserve a healthy person, don't you?
Or maybe you would prefer to be miserable with him.
Best,
Pamela
My Own Doppelganger
Your BF really needs to get over his fear. Your BF needs to be wacked
upside the head and get some sense knocked into him. You sound like
you really care about this dude.
Show him some of the replies to your post.
He's gonna f* up & lose someone who cares about him if he continues
with the 'I'm afraid you'll take me to the cleaners attitude'.
Life is about chances and mishaps. F*ing up is about being human and
taking chances.
On 3 Mar 2005 11:04:29 -0800, iam...@gmail.com wrote:
>I have been in a relationship with a divorced man for 9 months, and for
>the most part we have a very open, honest and loving relationship.
>
>He has been divorced for almost 2 years, though he and his ex were
>separated for four years before the divorce. He has equal custody of
>his beautiful son and is a wonderful father.
>
>Recently we have had several arguments about money. His divorce was
>pretty nasty and he pays his ex a huge amount of money every month, and
>will do so for the next 9 years. As a result he has some serious issues
>when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
>the belief that all women are only after money.
>
>This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
>more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
>and when we go for dinner or buy a bottle of wine he most often pays
>for it.
>We don't live together but I spend alot of time at his house and I try
>to contribute in as many ways as I can, financially and otherwise. I
>spend money on him when I can and I often turn down dates with him that
>will involve money and suggest other activites if I can't afford to
>contribute. I have told him many times that I don't need any material
>gain from this relationship for it to be of value to me, that I love
>him. Yet his fear persists.
>
>I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
>to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
>relationship to disintegrate over it.
>
>Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
>how can I help him to overcome this?
--------
In a cold world you need your friends to keep you warm.
DrLith
again.
> My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent. It's
a
> little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
> does, and I have more assets.
>
> I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
> interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
these
> items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage doesn't
> work out.
Big RJ:
Have you actually consulted a lawyer on this plan? I obviously ain't one,
but I'd be concerned about whether a prenup can really protect an asset such
as a house that becomes comingled (by her contributing toward the mortage)
after marriage. Maybe it's possible, dunno.
DrLith
> when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
> the belief that all women are only after money.
>
> This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
> more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
> gain from this relationship for it to be of value to me, that I love
> him. Yet his fear persists.
>
> I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
> to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
> relationship to disintegrate over it.
>
> Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
> how can I help him to overcome this?
In addition to the other helpful comments, I think it should be pointed out
that when you have a closely entwined relationship that involves a
significant income disparity, there are really only two possible outcomes:
(1) either the higher earning partner "subsidizes" the lower earning partner
to a certain extent; or (2) the partners continue to live within their
(disparate) means, and thus do not enjoy the same standard of living. There
is a potential for resentment in either solution (with the higher-earning
partner possibly feeling "used" in scenario 1 and the lower-earning partner
feeling the pinch in scenario 2). It's probably advisable to follow a middle
course (as you seem to be doing) until you're ready to commit, so at least
the resentment is spread out evenly, even if the money is not!
I wonder, if you laid it out to him in that sort of black-and-white logic,
if it would help him get past the emotional hangups he has about it. Either
he can pick up more of the tab, and enjoy (with you) the sort of lifestyle
his income affords, or you can split checks at McDonalds. It's his choice;
it results from the realities of the financial situation. It's *not*
something that is forced upon him, it's not that "all women are only after
money," and it's not some devious gold-digger trap you've laid out for him.
rj
Big RJ wrote:
(snip)
sigh...
I've said it before, but, wot the hell... I'll say it again: IMHO, a
prenup is inconsistent with and tends to be detrimental to marriage.
Of course, I do have a fairly difficult standard of what I consider
"marriage" to be. If you consider "marriage" to be nothing more than a
civil license to cohabit and (possibly) reproduce, along with access to
a set of tax breaks and other monetary benefits, then maybe a prenup is
for you. But it's not for me.
rj
rj
pamela wrote:
> Not all men are like this. Find one who isn't. Why would you want
to
> have to pay the price for what another woman did? If he can't see
past
> that, if he doesn't see you as "you", and if you are constantly
thrown in
> the position of having to "prove" your not out to get him, he's not a
person
> you should get involved with. And you deserve a healthy person,
don't you?
> Or maybe you would prefer to be miserable with him.
>
> Best,
> Pamela
Hmmm.... Don't you think that advising her to "Dump him" is just a tad
harsh?
rj
pamela
"rj" <rjk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109906922.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
No, really I don't RJ. Why would anyone who doesn't have to, put themselves
in the miserable position of having to prove themselves over and over when
they never did anything wrong to begin with? She is already doing things and
taking extreme care not to do anything to upset him or to let him think she
might be thinking of his bucks. What a horrible way to live. . They are
not married, unless I read this thing wrong.
He has a real problem. She isn't going to solve it for him, she isn't
going to help him solve it either. He will have to do that on his own. The
best thing she can do for herself and him, is to tell him he has a problem,
it's his problem, and he should go and get help so that he, one day, might
be able to live a happy life, not one where distrust eats away at him every
day. Maybe when he has gotten himself straight, they will have something to
talk about.
Believing you can change someone, believeing you and you alone have the
magic to turn someone around is just wearing blinders, and rather
egotistical.
Now, if your already married to the guy, well, then that's a whole nuther
ballgame.
Best,
Pamela
Joy
"pamela" <pam...@msnnot.news> wrote in message
news:%GRVd.537$oO4...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I'd agree. I wouldn't enter a relationship with a man who consciously or
unconsciously acted as if I were a leech who was just after his money. He
might otherwise be a perfectly nice man, of course, but I personally would
not be interested in constantly having to "prove myself". Speaking for
myself, I just don't want to live like that. The OPs mileage may differ, of
course.
mL
>I'd agree. I wouldn't enter a relationship with a man who consciously or
>unconsciously acted as if I were a leech who was just after his money. He
>might otherwise be a perfectly nice man, of course, but I personally would
>not be interested in constantly having to "prove myself". Speaking for
>myself, I just don't want to live like that. The OPs mileage may differ, of
>course.
In a way i can equate this to a man being in a relationship with a woman who
had been abused by a former husband. It's not fair to a new partner to be
assumed to be abusive as well. It's understandable that this person may be
very cautious, but so important for them to be to a point that they know the
difference between their ex and every other human of the same gender,
haircolor, name, or whatever similarity. My ex used to yell, but he never
ever did strike me. Still, when he yelled i felt threatened. That wasn't his
fault at all, i mean he shouldn't yell so much, but he never would have hit
me. Therapy helped that a lot, but unfortunately i didn't seek it earlier
than i did. I still hate when ppl yell, but i don't feel like they're
gonna hit me.
Therapy probably would help the OP's bf as well. The $ thing is a different
issue, but it's also like a type of abuse.
Nearl J Icarus
iam...@gmail.com says...
>How have some of you divorcee's dealt with issues of trust in
>relationships after your divorce?
That is something that is not very easy and probably two different people
wouldn't handle it the same way. When trust has lost its value, its not easy
to build it back up. In a way, there isn't much you can do. His value of trust
is his alone. At some point in time, he may begin to think that you are
something that he can put trust in again. With one exception, I wouldn't put
trust in somebody again. I don't need to. I built my walls for a reason.
>The argument usually begins when I notice him distancing himself from
>me. When I ask him what'sgoing on and how hes feeling, he admits to
>being terrified of trusting too much
My ex and I went through that a time or two. It wasn't so much that I was
distancing myself from her, I keep the world at arm's distance. The problem
was that she thought I knew what she was up to and thought that I was mad at
her. My reply would be, "Should I be?" Her actions would just add a clue to my
suspicions. The gulf with her would now be even larger. I never lost an
argument, but it took me a long time to realize I didn't win anything either.
Let him have his distance, let him have his suspicions. Then he may well
realize the reasons for being so are baseless with you.
Nearl J Icarus
rcblin...@bellsouth.net says...
>gonna work. My suggestion: When he starts spouting off nonsense,
>don't tell him he's wrong, let him vent, and say, "Hon, you're acting
That's not a bad idea. Holding all those negative feelings won't do him any
good. If he does let it all out, then he might see what his thoughts are worth
instead of letting them fester in the back of his mind.
Nearl J Icarus
pam...@msnnot.news says...
>Believing you can change someone, believeing you and you alone have the
>magic to turn someone around is just wearing blinders, and rather
>egotistical.
Somebody did change him, the previous SO. People can and do have a tremendous
influence on other people. You just can't control how that change comes about
or the direction it takes. If she handles it right, she can be a positive
influence in his life. Since he is involved with her, he is partly open to
some influence.
rj
Actually, I pretty much agree. Certainly, this problem of trust that
the guy has is definitely *his* problem and not something that the OP
can in any way "fix" or "help" him with. The most she can do is
recognize it as being a part of the entire package and decide if it's a
deal-breaker. And that's the sticking-point.... No, they aren't
married, but they are already "in a relationship". This implies to me
that a measure of commitment has already been given. Only she can
decide whether she can or ought to renege on that commitment, whatever
it is.
Anyhow, I think that to "dump him", without warning or recourse, is
probably too harsh. Maybe it'd make more sense to put him on probation
for a defined time period. Make sure that *he* knows what an issue it
is to her. And if he doesn't shape up by the deadline, *then* dump
him.
<grin>
That sounds pretty harsh, too. But it's probably sensible. As I've
remarked elsewhere, The Love of My Life had such a deadline for *me*.
She didn't tell me about it, though, until *much* later. <grin>
Luckily, I made the deadline, even though I didn't know it was there...
rj
Robert Straysinger
> How have some of you divorcee's dealt with issues of trust in
> relationships after your divorce?
>
Trusting my gut, talking about my insecurities with a number of folks
here, and taking a running leap into the void to see what happened.
Talking helped the most, and a great deal of understanding and frankly,
time. Becca and I are both people who got burned badly, but we came to
realize where each other was coming from and eventually trusting each
other.
The key is more or less realizing you can't protect and shelter
yourself, and expect to make a connection to the outside as well.
Connections are inherently risks. I just couldn't live as well without
the connection as I could with it, so I took the chance.
Hope that helps...
--
May the Road Rise with You,
Robert Stray-Singer
http://www.geocities.com/stray_singer
Robert Straysinger
> I have been in a relationship with a divorced man for 9 months, and for
> the most part we have a very open, honest and loving relationship.
>
> He has been divorced for almost 2 years, though he and his ex were
> separated for four years before the divorce. He has equal custody of
> his beautiful son and is a wonderful father.
>
> Recently we have had several arguments about money. His divorce was
> pretty nasty and he pays his ex a huge amount of money every month, and
> when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
> the belief that all women are only after money.
>
> This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
> more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
> for it.
> We don't live together but I spend alot of time at his house and I try
> to contribute in as many ways as I can, financially and otherwise. I
> spend money on him when I can and I often turn down dates with him that
> will involve money and suggest other activites if I can't afford to
> gain from this relationship for it to be of value to me, that I love
> him. Yet his fear persists.
>
> I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
> to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
> relationship to disintegrate over it.
>
> Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
> how can I help him to overcome this?
>
If it is a real issue with him, as you describe it to be, and it is
coming to the point of a serious commitment, perhaps something akin to a
prenup, or something to that effect should cohabitation occur, might be
a good thing.
Above all, you really need to tell him, you understand he got screwed
before, and you want him to feel safe that he isn't going to get screwed
again.
At least, that is my take. YMMV.
--
May the Road Rise with You,
Robert Curriden
mL
>Talking helped the most, and a great deal of understanding and frankly,
>time. Becca and I are both people who got burned badly, but we came to
>realize where each other was coming from and eventually trusting each
>other.
The unfortunate thing about trust is it takes a long time to build, but only a
moment to tear it back down.
:-(
Ray Gordon
> pretty nasty and he pays his ex a huge amount of money every month, and
> will do so for the next 9 years. As a result he has some serious issues
> when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
> the belief that all women are only after money.
Guess why he believes that?
> This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
> more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
I rest my case.
If he were poor, you'd have rejected him because he was "bitter" or "had
issues."
Ray Gordon
> themselves in the miserable position of having to prove themselves over
> and over when they never did anything wrong to begin with?
To prevent him from convincing other men to watch out for golddiggers.
Ray Gordon
>> themselves in the miserable position of having to prove themselves over
>> and over when they never did anything wrong to begin with? She is already
>> doing things and taking extreme care not to do anything to upset him or
>> to let him think she might be thinking of his bucks. What a horrible way
>> to live. . They are not married, unless I read this thing wrong.
>
> I'd agree. I wouldn't enter a relationship with a man who consciously or
> unconsciously acted as if I were a leech who was just after his money.
Do you have a financial requirement of a lover?
Ray Gordon
>
> To answer someof DK's questions:
> The argument usually begins when I notice him distancing himself from
> me. When I ask him what'sgoing on and how hes feeling, he admits to
> is afraid of it happening again. He recently brought up the case of
> Kobe Bryant to make his point, and often makes generalizations about
> women and money.
Yet there you are, putting up with all this crap from a guy with money.
Sounds like he has you pegged.
> He says he consciously knows that I am not out to take advantage of
> him, but his insecurity persists.
Are those who lock their homes insecure now?
>Often when I offer to pay for
> something he won't let me.
Yeah, he gets the dinner and the movie, you get the cab.
>In fact, I often feel incredibly
> uncomfortable and guilty about the money he spends on me. At the
> beginning of our relationship I was so uncomfortable that he would have
> to promt me NOT TO order the cheapest thing on the menu.
Well if you marry him the government will do your golddigging for you.
> Hopefully he never feels unappreciated...since I know he has this
> insecurity I make a special effort to always thank him for the things
> he does; I always voice my appreciation.
Amazing how you missed the men who don't have this problem because they
aren't as well off.
> I have no desire to change him. I absolutely love him for who he is.
> What I would like to happen is to see him begin to deal with a problem
> that he himself readily admits to having.
Sounds like he should have had this "problem" before his first marriage.
Very easy for you to pretend you aren't golddigging when nature and law will
put his money in your pocket anyway. Like the guy dating a model and
swearing up and down it's not her looks.
> We have no plans to get married or have children together, but we have
> a really amazing connection.
Sex?
>This problem is proving to be a major
> obstacle in the growth of our relationship. Neither of us wants for our
> relationship to end.
Then that heads towards common-law marriage territory, and he has every
right to be cautious.
Ray Gordon
> I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
> interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
> these
> items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage doesn't
> work out...
That makes you a JOHN and her a -- hmm, what's that word? -- oh yeah, a
prostitute.
> I have no reason to believe my g/f wants me for my money.
Other than the fact she gets bought off if you divorce?
Yeah, tell yourself what a stud you are. Play right into women's hands.
Also have fun if a court ever "sets aside" your prenup.
--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Seduction Made Easy. Get this book FREE when you buy participating
affiliated books!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
The Seduction Library. Four free books to get you started on your quest to
get laid.
Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
Ray Gordon
who have all this money.
--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Seduction Made Easy. Get this book FREE when you buy participating
affiliated books!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
The Seduction Library. Four free books to get you started on your quest to
get laid.
Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
"mL" <inky56...@hellokitty.com> wrote in message
news:Z_LVd.38893$Tt.19284@fed1read05...
> In article <1109876669.2...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> iam...@gmail.com wrote:
>>I have been in a relationship with a divorced man for 9 months, and for
>>the most part we have a very open, honest and loving relationship.
>>
>>He has been divorced for almost 2 years, though he and his ex were
>>separated for four years before the divorce. He has equal custody of
>>his beautiful son and is a wonderful father.
>>
>>Recently we have had several arguments about money. His divorce was
>>pretty nasty and he pays his ex a huge amount of money every month, and
>>will do so for the next 9 years. As a result he has some serious issues
>>when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
>>the belief that all women are only after money.
>>
>>This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
>>more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
>>and when we go for dinner or buy a bottle of wine he most often pays
>>for it.
>>We don't live together but I spend alot of time at his house and I try
>>to contribute in as many ways as I can, financially and otherwise. I
>>spend money on him when I can and I often turn down dates with him that
>>will involve money and suggest other activites if I can't afford to
>>contribute. I have told him many times that I don't need any material
>>gain from this relationship for it to be of value to me, that I love
>>him. Yet his fear persists.
>>
>>I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
>>to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
>>relationship to disintegrate over it.
>>
>>Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
>>how can I help him to overcome this?
>>
>
> I'm not a man, but here goes:
>
> I had some of these feelings when i was dating my husband, who was
> divorced
> from a leech-woman and also paying a lot of alimony. I, too, was
> divorced,
> but broke. Recipe for disaster? :-)
>
> Within myself, I always felt that i needed to "prove" that i wasn't after
> his
> money. Thing is, it's difficult to know what to do. If i'd offer to pay
> for
> something, it could hurt his pride. If i let him pay for it, it could
> make
> him feel like i'm taking advantage of him. I never did understand what i
> was
> supposed to do, like when we'd go shopping, becuz if i paid for my things
> separately, it felt awkward. But if i let him pay, he'd make cracks about
> buying my stuff for me and that hurt MY pride.
>
> Maybe it IS a "pride" issue, ya think?
>
> When i moved into his house, i gave him a small amount of cash when i
> could.
> My income was/is way less than his, and i've always lived on a tight
> budget.
> It felt awkward when i'd give hime $ even tho we had agreed upon my
> contribution. Maybe we both were confused. I still have a hard time
> keeping
> up financially in this household and neighborhood, where i'm making very
> little yet others seem to buy whatever they want. I still feel out of
> place
> in that regard.
>
> Just some things to consider in case your relationship gets more serious.
> We're married now and doing fine. I bring in what i can, don't spend much
> on myself, and i would have no problem if he were to decide let's downsize
> to
> a cheaper home and spend less $. I want him to be happy and not feel
> pressured by me. And our time together is much more important to me than
> anything anybody could buy.
>
> I hope my experience might have helped give you some ideas, anyway.
mL
>It's funny how all these women who are *not* golddiggers wind up with men
>who have all this money.
>
Well, if i were a golddigger, i wouldn't be paying for my own stuff or doing
without stuff i want, would i?
Mike
trust is betrayed enough times or deeply enough we may become unable to
trust again. I, for one, do not want to live like that. I am trying to
understand how to be open, honest, and free with everyone around me, and
at the same time protect and care for myself properly.
There must be some balance between these apparent opposites that will
allow me some morsels of happiness in my life.
Mike
mL
>I agree. And, another unfortunate thing about trust is that when our
>trust is betrayed enough times or deeply enough we may become unable to
>trust again. I, for one, do not want to live like that. I am trying to
>understand how to be open, honest, and free with everyone around me, and
>at the same time protect and care for myself properly.
>
>There must be some balance between these apparent opposites that will
>allow me some morsels of happiness in my life.
I hope so. Even in the best relationships, i've found that there's gonna be
misunderstanding and hurt.
Bill in Co.
eternity)
Note to Laura (or was it Paula?): This is the infamous Ray Gordon
(Raytardo, as in retarded).
ChimChimery ChimChimery
to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
relationship to disintegrate over it.
Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
REPLY: This is a typical ramification to divorce ; it leaves many very
non trustworthy and takes a long time before confidence in someone new,
is restored. His confidence level will register over time as his
trust-barometer either swings northward or southward concerning your
relational interaction ; it is something you cannot rush. For him, it
may take a little longer than average...or, it may never happen
entirely. Be sensitive to what he went thru and how he feels currently.
If the shoe was on the other foot, then youd want this of him.
Travis Hubbard
Big RJ
I hear you. I haven't thought the pre-nup thing all the way through. I
would not want to screw her over if we marry. Something that comes to mind
as I read through the responces to my post. What about my son? I have one
child. He deserves to go to college if he wants to, and inherit as much
from his mother and myself as possible. When I marry again should I just
not worry about it, and put a huge amount of money at risk? Sorry son, but
I didn't protect my ass*ets when I married step-mom, so you only get 1/2 of
what you should have gotten.
I have discussed a pre-nup with my attorney. I understand I would have to
have a will to protect my son and new wife. I have life insurance now for
him, and I'd have another policy for new wife. If anything happened to me,
the house would go to her.
Food for thought.
Big
"mL" <inky56...@hellokitty.com> wrote in message
news:xcMVd.38905$Tt.4228@fed1read05...
> In article <RvLVd.2378$C4...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, "Big RJ"
<not...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent.
It's a
> >little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
> >does, and I have more assets.
>
> Is she able to claim a renter's credit on her taxes?
> Also, do you have to claim it as rental income and carry some sort of
> insurance that is specific to landlords?
>
> >I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
> >interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
these
> >items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> >certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage
doesn't
> >work out... And if she doesn't contest the pre-nup.
>
> Where this could get sticky is, say, you and she are married for decades,
> living in that home, sharing the upkeep and maintenance. (this happened
to my
> grandma, btw). If you were to pass away, would she get kicked out? My
> grandpa screwed up and didn't have this specified, and she got booted out
into
> a trailor. Being a community property state, i don't understand how it
> happened, but it did. Maybe it doesn't apply the same to deaths as to
> divorces. I really don't know, but i always worry about that stuff.
>
>
>
Big RJ
"DaKitty" <Im...@dotcomsomething.net> wrote in message
news:v56dneIclYs...@giganews.com...
>
> "Big RJ" <not...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RvLVd.2378$C4...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > <iam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1109876669.2...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > > to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want
our
> > > relationship to disintegrate over it.
> > >
> > > Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
> > > how can I help him to overcome this?
> > >
> >
> >
> > I am a soon to be divorced dad with 50% custody of our son. My divorce
> was
> > not too difficult, and my STBX and I get along okay now. She got the
> house
> > minus a buyout, and she got credit for 1/2 my business. Ouch.
> >
> > Here's how I handle your b/f's dilema. I will pre-nup before I marry
> again.
It's
> a
> > little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
> > does, and I have more assets.
> >
> > interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
> these
> > items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> > certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage
doesn't
> > work out... And if she doesn't contest the pre-nup.
>
> and has her own assets equal to, or more than yours, and she wanted a
> prenup? Or if she was mistrusting of your motivations, because she had
more
> money than you?
>
Hey DaKitty,
Sorry to hear you are a little down. Cyber hug!
If my PFW has the things you mention, then perfect, she should insist on a
pre-nup herself. I don't want anything from anyone. I'd prefer to earn it.
When I married the first time neither of us had a damn thing. We built it
together. Now there will be disparity in what I have/earn and what any
potential mate has/earns. Just a fact of a second marriage.
Guess it makes me sound shallow. FWIW g/f's parents have $$$, and I would
not want any part of that.
Big
Big RJ
"Joy" <j...@joydoesntlikespam.com> wrote in message
news:OBNVd.27056$Kq3....@fe06.lga...
>
> "Big RJ" <not...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RvLVd.2378$C4...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> >
> > again.
> > My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent.
It's
> > a
> > little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
> > does, and I have more assets.
> >
> > I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
> > interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
> > these
> > items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> > certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage
doesn't
> > work out... And if she doesn't contest the pre-nup.
>
> happen to spend quite a few years together - because you are effectively
> preventing her from building equity in a house, which in that case would
> have a negative impact on her finances for the rest of her life. Say
you're
> together 20 years and split up - and she's helped pay for that house,
> directly or indirectly - but then she gets left homeless? She deserves to
> build equity over the years same as you do.
>
> You're also setting yourself up for that kind of awkward "I don't really
> belong here, this isn't really my home" situation that ML suffers from. I
> don't think you want to deliberately do that, do you?
>
Very good points Joy. Maybe have some time clauses in it where she'd get
more cash the longer the marriage lasts?
The thing that sucks is what some people here will point out (ping; rj):
Pre-nup could set me up to fail. I really don't want to do that, but I
can't think of a better way to enter a partnership than spelling out
everything in a written agreement up front. Maybe I could put a sex clause
in there?? ROFLMAO!!
Big
Big RJ
talked about what is possible.
Big
"DrLith" <drl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38q16uF...@individual.net...
>
> "Big RJ" <not...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RvLVd.2378$C4...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > Here's how I handle your b/f's dilema. I will pre-nup before I marry
> again.
> > My g/f and her child live with my child and I, and she pays me rent.
It's
> a
> > little less than she used to pay for an apartment. I make more than she
> > does, and I have more assets.
> >
> > I am buying the house in my name only, and I own my business. I am not
> > interested in spitting my assets again, especially these two. Both of
> these
> > items will be listed as my separate property on my pre-nup, along with a
> > certain amount of money that would go to the bride if our marriage
doesn't
> > work out.
>
> Big RJ:
>
> Have you actually consulted a lawyer on this plan? I obviously ain't one,
> but I'd be concerned about whether a prenup can really protect an asset
such
> as a house that becomes comingled (by her contributing toward the mortage)
> after marriage. Maybe it's possible, dunno.
>
>
mL
>Hi mL,
>
>I hear you. I haven't thought the pre-nup thing all the way through. I
>would not want to screw her over if we marry. Something that comes to mind
>as I read through the responces to my post. What about my son? I have one
>child. He deserves to go to college if he wants to, and inherit as much
>from his mother and myself as possible. When I marry again should I just
>not worry about it, and put a huge amount of money at risk? Sorry son, but
>I didn't protect my ass*ets when I married step-mom, so you only get 1/2 of
>what you should have gotten.
>
>I have discussed a pre-nup with my attorney. I understand I would have to
>have a will to protect my son and new wife. I have life insurance now for
>him, and I'd have another policy for new wife. If anything happened to me,
>the house would go to her.
>
>Food for thought.
Yep. A lot to consider.
My husband and i each have two adult kids from previous marriages. If we got
killed, i'd hate for anybody to feel left out. Argh, hate thinking that
stuff.
mL
>The thing that sucks is what some people here will point out (ping; rj):
>Pre-nup could set me up to fail. I really don't want to do that, but I
>can't think of a better way to enter a partnership than spelling out
>everything in a written agreement up front. Maybe I could put a sex clause
>in there?? ROFLMAO!!
oh, bay-beh... now THAT'S a turnon!
not!
:-)
Robert Straysinger
Pretty much, which is why it takes being very conscious of it, and how
delicate it is, so you can avoid even looking like you are being
untrustworthy.
It is a pain at first, but an important thing to make things work imho.
Xenos the Elder
>
> I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
> to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
> relationship to disintegrate over it.
>
> Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
> how can I help him to overcome this?
>
If he likes expensive restaurants and he knows you can't afford
expensive restaurants then he is using you for blaming it on you what
his ex did.
He is in a rebound relationship with you then.
You either pay 50% of your expenses or otherwise he will see you as a
gold digger.
Probably he want's to see you as a gold digger.
Then move on but without him.
iam...@gmail.com
Bill in Co. Mar 4, 9:32 am show options
Newsgroups: alt.support.divorce
From: "Bill in Co." <surly03curmudg...@earthlink.net> - Find messages
by this author
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:32:58 GMT
Local: Fri, Mar 4 2005 9:32 am
Subject: Re: Advice needed on dating a divorced man
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
Raytardo is STILL around? LOL! (didn't know...he's been KFed for
eternity)
Note to Laura (or was it Paula?): This is the infamous Ray Gordon
(Raytardo, as in retarded).
****
Glad I just saw that - I was about to write a nasty reply to Raytardo
there, but apparently this is a common occurrence.
Something tells me he's the one who's bitter - sheesh!
pamela
"Mike" <mrhe...@sbcglobal.net.not> wrote in message
news:oW%Vd.9892$YV2...@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>I agree. And, another unfortunate thing about trust is that when our trust
>is betrayed enough times or deeply enough we may become unable to trust
>again. I, for one, do not want to live like that. I am trying to
>understand how to be open, honest, and free with everyone around me, and at
>the same time protect and care for myself properly.
>
> There must be some balance between these apparent opposites that will
> allow me some morsels of happiness in my life.
>
> Mike
I think there is, Mike. Lot's of people have problems with trust, because
they jump into relationships before they have given themselves a chance to
recover from the old one. And, before they have taken the time to assess
themselves, what it is they really need, what they are really willing to
give, and how those two things coincide.
Yes, the ability to trust is damaged when one has been treated badly, but if
one is continually treated badly, then as harsh as this seems, that person
must look back into themselves for many of the answers.
Pamela
pamela
>> when it comes to money and relationships and has trouble getting past
>> the belief that all women are only after money.
>>
>> This was never an issue before but since our relationship has become
>> more serious it had become a problem. I earn alot less than he does,
>> gain from this relationship for it to be of value to me, that I love
>> him. Yet his fear persists.
>>
>> to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
>> relationship to disintegrate over it.
>>
>> Can any divorced men out there give me some advice? What can I do, and
>> how can I help him to overcome this?
>
> out
> that when you have a closely entwined relationship that involves a
> significant income disparity, there are really only two possible outcomes:
> (1) either the higher earning partner "subsidizes" the lower earning
> partner
> to a certain extent; or (2) the partners continue to live within their
> (disparate) means, and thus do not enjoy the same standard of living.
> There
> is a potential for resentment in either solution (with the higher-earning
> partner possibly feeling "used" in scenario 1 and the lower-earning
> partner
> feeling the pinch in scenario 2). It's probably advisable to follow a
> middle
> course (as you seem to be doing) until you're ready to commit, so at least
> the resentment is spread out evenly, even if the money is not!
>
> I wonder, if you laid it out to him in that sort of black-and-white logic,
> if it would help him get past the emotional hangups he has about it.
> Either
> he can pick up more of the tab, and enjoy (with you) the sort of lifestyle
> his income affords, or you can split checks at McDonalds. It's his choice;
> it results from the realities of the financial situation. It's *not*
> something that is forced upon him, it's not that "all women are only after
> money," and it's not some devious gold-digger trap you've laid out for
> him.
>
>
Which is why, when I do date, I pay particular attention to how a man talks
about his feelings about women. If he starts talking about how women are
"out" to get him, or he consistently uses the term "golddigger", I don't
spend too much time with him.
My husband essentially ran out and left me holding the bag (of bills). It
took me years to pay off some of the things he did. That could qualify I
guess as having been taken to the cleaners. But, I am not bitter nor
distrustful of men in general. And I know plenty of men who are not bitter
about women, and do not have these type of distrust issues.
So, why play where you are bound to get hurt?
Pamela
pamela
"Xenos the Elder" <someplace...@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:38s5dlF...@individual.net...
And that, Demetre, was very insightful.
Best,
Pamela
Bill in Co.
I agree. Best not to play at all.
pamela
"Bill in Co." <surly03c...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lqbWd.1733$cN6...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
lol. I should have stated that a little more clearly: Why play with people
who won't trust you with their balls. . . . Oh, shoot, that didn't come out
right, either.
Best,
Pamela
rjk...@hotmail.com
LOL...
Sure, Bill! Tell us again how happy you are!
rj
Bill in Co.
I'm not. But maybe there is some other way, or some other solution.
Nearl J Icarus
says...
A woman marries a man who has some brains and is successful, so she's a
golddigger? With all the bazillions of couples out there, I'm sure he can find
enough examples to believe he's correct.
pamela
"Nearl J Icarus" <nj_tooth...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2TdWd.47272$7z6.33072@lakeread04...
Maybe he's jealous because he can't find a man like that for himself.
>
mL
LMAO! you're good!
Bill in Co.
All I want to know is has anybody here donated some bus tokens for Raytardo
yet? I think he's still trapped in that basement tenement of his and his
moms, and he needs to get out.
Bill in Co.
Raytardo's looking for a man now? ROFLMAO!!!
DaKitty
Thank You :)
> If my PFW has the things you mention, then perfect, she should insist on a
> pre-nup herself. I don't want anything from anyone. I'd prefer to earn
it.
I like that attitude :)
> When I married the first time neither of us had a damn thing. We built it
> together. Now there will be disparity in what I have/earn and what any
> potential mate has/earns. Just a fact of a second marriage.
>
> Guess it makes me sound shallow.
Why shallow? I didn't get that impression.
Ray Gordon
>>who have all this money.
>>
>
> Well, if i were a golddigger, i wouldn't be paying for my own stuff or
> doing
> without stuff i want, would i?
Sure, if you wanted to give the impression you weren't one while the
government gives you half no matter what.
Men can tell how women react to money very easily.
--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Seduction Made Easy. Get this book FREE when you buy participating
affiliated books!
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
The Seduction Library. Four free books to get you started on your quest to
get laid.
Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
Ray Gordon
One would think a college professor wouldn't use such an insensitive term.
Ray Gordon
>>>>It's funny how all these women who are *not* golddiggers wind up with
>>>>men
>>>>who have all this money.
>>>Well, if i were a golddigger, i wouldn't be paying for my own stuff or
>>>doing
>>>without stuff i want, would i?
>>
>> A woman marries a man who has some brains and is successful, so she's a
>> golddigger? With all the bazillions of couples out there, I'm sure he can
>> find
>> enough examples to believe he's correct.
>
> Maybe he's jealous because he can't find a man like that for himself.
Maybe women don't like men who speak the truth so they get nasty with the
personal attacks when a man does?
Women talk about men as oppressors in the workplace, and line up to marry
CEOs. They make the best case for what I argue, in fact.
Success implies that it was earned. Most men who earn well do so because
they aren't whistleblowers, i.e., they'll shut up to protect their jobs even
if others are harmed or laws are broken. Since that involves cheating, men
who cheat don't win because cheating is grounds for disqualification.
Ray Gordon
>>> A woman marries a man who has some brains and is successful, so she's a
>>> golddigger? With all the bazillions of couples out there, I'm sure he
>>> can
>>> find
>>> enough examples to believe he's correct.
>>
>>Maybe he's jealous because he can't find a man like that for himself.
>
> LMAO! you're good!
Wait until you see what I start laughing at in this group (I see it hasn't
learned its lessons). Everything is now fair game until you learn your
lesson.
You are a pompous little piece of shit bully if you get off on insults like
that.
Btw, I can get women without money. More than I can say for the Johns here
who have to pay for women they are not even married to.
pamela
"Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:kmGWd.22306$534....@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>>>"Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
>>>>>It's funny how all these women who are *not* golddiggers wind up with
>>>>>men
>>>>>who have all this money.
>>>>Well, if i were a golddigger, i wouldn't be paying for my own stuff or
>>>>doing
>>>>without stuff i want, would i?
>>>
>>> A woman marries a man who has some brains and is successful, so she's a
>>> golddigger? With all the bazillions of couples out there, I'm sure he
>>> can find
>>> enough examples to believe he's correct.
>>
>> Maybe he's jealous because he can't find a man like that for himself.
>
> Maybe women don't like men who speak the truth so they get nasty with the
> personal attacks when a man does?
>
> Women talk about men as oppressors in the workplace, and line up to marry
> CEOs. They make the best case for what I argue, in fact.
>
> Success implies that it was earned. Most men who earn well do so because
> they aren't whistleblowers, i.e., they'll shut up to protect their jobs
> even if others are harmed or laws are broken. Since that involves
> cheating, men who cheat don't win because cheating is grounds for
> disqualification.
>
>
> --
Unsubstantive drivel, really. And, get with the times, women don't really
talk about men as oppressors anymore, as a general rule. There will always
be those instances here and there or anything, and that will always make the
papers, but really, we've all come a long way in a very short time. And, if
we haven't companies are very aware of the costliness of these abuses, and
do everything possible to prevent these things.
And, you get what you give. You are the king of personal attacks,(well, you
had to be consistent at something, I suppose) so you telling someone else
not to employ them is only further evidence of your inability to reason.
Bucko.
Best,
Pamela
Xenos the Elder
My ex girlfriend and her feminist women friends where believing men to
be the oppressors.
Visit Amnesty International.
It's mostly about oppressed women.
The Finish section of Amnesty International is even worse because it's
only about women being oppressed and being victims.
Orlando Fiol
>I'm not sure how else to make him truly believe that I am not in this
>to screw him over. It's a deep seated fear for him and I don't want our
>relationship to disintegrate over it.
I am totally blind from birth and my ex wife managed to spend a great
deal of my malpractice settlement money on absurd amounts of food and
duplicates of frivolous items we never really needed. She did all this
behind my back, often hiding what she bought or lying about going
shopping. I am with a wonderful young woman now who is the exact
opposite, frugal to a fault and very thrifty with my money. I'd say
that if you could find out what his fears actually are, you could
reassure him of your intentions at times when he really needs to know.
He probably feels bad that he pays his ex so much and doesn't have
enough to spend on you as he'd like. many men would like to be better
providers and spenders, but cannot because of past injustices and
mistakes. Knowing this, if you insist that he doesn't have to spend
much money on you, he might take that as you being with him out of
sympathy. I know that what I needed most after my separation was a
sense of financial control. So, I preferred a woman to ask me what I
wanted to do rather than implicitly or explicitly demand I spend money
on her. Do you get a sense of how he'd actually like to spend money?
Do you often conflict over different activities or expenditures? Does
he often lament that he can't spend more money on you? Do you secretly
wish he had more discretionary income for your relationship? Do you
blame him for how his divorce was settled, with so much money going to
his ex? If so, he may pick up on this and feel he can't win for trying.
I hope this helps,
Orlando
jstlucas at hotmail dot com
Physically or emotionally? If physical, do you use a voice synthesizer "read
me" sort of program to browse the internet?
Ray Gordon
> if one is continually treated badly, then as harsh as this seems, that
> person must look back into themselves for many of the answers.
That's how abusers think: their victims "deserve it."
It's a cute form of what I call "social checkmating" going on here: a rich
guy gets fleeced in divorce court, is understandably wary that women only
want him for his money (because he has nothing else to offer them but
doesn't want to confront that), and the golddigging whores he gets want to
be able to deny being after him for the one thing they obviously want.
After all, if he were so fucked up, they wouldn't give him the time of day
normally, now would they?
Ray Gordon
> ex. I can understand where he is coming from. It sounds like you are
> doing all the right things by helping keep costs low. I'm certain he
> appreciates this.
>
> I regard my difficulties with trust (money ... otherwise) to be the
> appropriate behavior given the circumstances; I think it important for
> you to understand this as well. We've experienced someone whom we
> completely trusted turn on us. This caused me to question my own
> judgement, so no matter how much I trust someone, there's a little
> voice that reminds me "yea, well you trusted someone completely before,
> and look what happened".
Well actually, your problem is a little simpler than that: you want hot
women, you can't get them with anything but money, you don't want to admit
it, so you wind up with cognitive dissonance whenever the obvious is pointed
out.
Ray Gordon
>>in this to screw him over.
>
> after my nasty divorce. I doubt there is a way to convince your BF
> that you are not going to screw him over. He is going to have to deal
> with that one on his own.
>
> Just be yourself and if he doesn't like it you might want to move on.
What reason OTHER than his money could she possibly want to be with him for?
His distrusting personality?
Why is she so tolerant of something she allegedly finds so abhorrent?
Ray Gordon
> would not want to screw her over if we marry. Something that comes to
> mind
> as I read through the responces to my post. What about my son? I have
> one
> child. He deserves to go to college if he wants to, and inherit as much
> from his mother and myself as possible.
How does he "deserve" this? Birthright?
>When I marry again should I just
> not worry about it, and put a huge amount of money at risk? Sorry son,
> but
> I didn't protect my ass*ets when I married step-mom, so you only get 1/2
> of
> what you should have gotten.
Well, without the money, are you ready to be rejected by women you have
nothing else to offer?
> I have discussed a pre-nup with my attorney. I understand I would have to
> have a will to protect my son and new wife. I have life insurance now for
> him, and I'd have another policy for new wife. If anything happened to
> me,
> the house would go to her.
So she's basically BOUGHT.
Ray Gordon
>> belong here, this isn't really my home" situation that ML suffers from.
>> I
>> don't think you want to deliberately do that, do you?
>>
>
> Very good points Joy. Maybe have some time clauses in it where she'd get
> more cash the longer the marriage lasts?
Why not just hire a hooker?
Don't see the difference here.
> The thing that sucks is what some people here will point out (ping; rj):
> Pre-nup could set me up to fail. I really don't want to do that, but I
> can't think of a better way to enter a partnership than spelling out
> everything in a written agreement up front. Maybe I could put a sex
> clause
> in there?? ROFLMAO!!
The sex is why the men part with the money.
Many of these men with money who whine don't realize that they wouldn't be
getting laid at all were it not for their purchase of sexual services from
said golddiggers.
Ray Gordon
> talks about his feelings about women. If he starts talking about how
> women are "out" to get him, or he consistently uses the term "golddigger",
> I don't spend too much time with him.
Burglars don't spend much time trying to break into properly secured homes,
either. Not good for business.
That you don't want a man *thinking* or *saying* you aren't into him for his
money doesn't mean you aren't into him for his money, only that you want to
pretend otherwise.
> My husband essentially ran out and left me holding the bag (of bills). It
> took me years to pay off some of the things he did. That could qualify I
> guess as having been taken to the cleaners. But, I am not bitter nor
> distrustful of men in general. And I know plenty of men who are not bitter
> about women, and do not have these type of distrust issues.
>
> So, why play where you are bound to get hurt?
Men don't have to get hurt; if they keep their eyes open they can adjust
their expectations accordingly.