Hi
I wondered if anyone here sued for divorce over mate having cybersex with many
 other people.  Mine did and he even discussed our sex life with his cyber
 partners. I accidently found his logs in the computer.  It ruined our 25-year
 marriage.  I had always thought he was faithful.  I left him.  Any one else
 have experience with this?

Astrid Alexander

This happened to me.  This is how I found out that my husband is a
closet homosexual.  He paid no attention to me and denied everything.
Just said he had no sex drive, but was perusing the gay sites at all
hours.  Since then, things got worse between us.  He is in a new
relationship with a woman (trying to find himself, if you ask me) (and
this woman is also a "secret") and we will be separating soon.  It's
very weird here!  

I know I've looked at a lot of strange things when I was first
introduced to the internet, just out of curiousity.  But his primary
interest has been the gay sites, but he says all that had to do with was
a fantasy of his and that he is not gay or even bisexual.

He refuses to go to counseling so I'm trying to accept that it's over.
Why would I want to be with a man I can't trust?

This whole cyberspace is starting to really sicken me.  

Hi,

I accidentally found logs of conversations between my wife and a married
guy in Sugarland, Texas.  Although there was cybersex, what got me was the
talk about how they were in love with each other.  Although I don't blame
the cyber stuff on the demise of our marriage, it played a significant role
in our inability to work things out.

Rick

Astrid88 <astri...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971006124101.IAA24...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...

In article <19971006124101.IAA24...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,

There are more and more cases involving cybersex, porn and
cyber-infidelity. Some of them have evolved into actual physical
relationships between cyber-lovers. Most are private chats. Whatever goes
on, it is considered by most matrimonial folks as a breach of the marriage
contract.

The interesting question is: Why didn't the spouse participating in it
erase the chat records, empty the trash, download them onto a diskette that
is then hidden or tossed or do something to make it extremely difficult for
his or her spouse to find them?

Laura Johnson
Author, Divorce Strategy: Tactics for a Civil Financial Divorce
http://www.bookzone.com/feature/divorce.html

My husband thought I was too dumb to open his logs, too.  I asked him why he
 kept them in the computer and he said that he needed a way to keep track of
 what he had said to whom!  He had some people thinking he was much younger,
 etc....  I think lots of people lie about themselves online.  We had problems
 before it started and he blamed me for his transgressions with the computer.
 I think we are all responsible for ourselves and cannot blame others for this
 type of activity.  I must admit that since I left (1 year ago) I have been
 very happy.  I know for sure I could never live with him again.  Fortunately,
 we have no small kids.  Too bad all this happened.  I believe that a measure
 of a man's worth is equal to what he would do if he thought he'd never be
 found out!
Astrid Alexander

My wife (soon ex) found the chat rooms on the internet. She started
talking to several people and I found several logs of the
conversations. They were the usual ones where the guys were saying all
the sweet things to get into her pants. And I know that she has meet
some of them. When I confronted her about it, she said that they were
just "friends". From the conversations, I told her no way, and the end
result is a divorce. Our marriage was waning anyway, although I
thought saveable, but what is very hard for me (and yes, still cry) is
that one of these "men" not caring about what they do. Makes me feel
like a real loser. I will recover, but it will take awhile. Yes even
though I do not think she went to bed with them, I do not feel any
different then if she did.

My husband assumed that I was too stupid to find the records.  Little did
he know, I knew just where to look, and figured out how to open the ICQ
file histories without actually being online (which required a password).

He came home that night and I confronted him with 'I thought you said you
weren't doing this anymore'.  He skirted the issue with 'you invaded my
privacy'.

I agree, I shouldn't have gotten into his computer, but really, should his
sex life be an issue kept private from his wife?  He told me that he wasn't
doing it anymore, and I simply wanted proof.

Though it might start a really awful flame war, I would like to hear the
"transgressor's" side of the story.  Is there anyone out there who
participates in cybersex and feels that they are totally justified, and
that it doesn't in any way interfere with their marriage?  I'd sure like to
hear that perspective.

Jen

LJohn314 <ljohn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971007032500.XAA19...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...

On 6 Oct 1997 12:41:21 GMT, astri...@aol.com (Astrid88) wrote:

Everyone, especially the women, are completely missing the point.

If you paid any bit of attention and tried just the slightest to pay
attention to your  married partner, he/she probably would not have
found any interest in pursuing cyber activities, beyond the original
novelty.

Ask yourself "what is missing from our relationship that was once
there?" I guarantee it is a lack of discussion and lack of being able
to compromise on both parts as to what needs to be changed.

Remember those early days/years? Weren't they fun? They still could be
if both sides could communicate.

my $0.02 worth.

G

I

In NJ, a very famous cybersex case was thrown out of court for grounds of
 adultry.
It may not be legal grounds, but its definitely a sign something is seriously
 awry in the marriage relationship.

I find your argument totally inane and offensive.  It is a means of making
the victim feel as the perp in a crime.  Is a husband "justified" in having
an alduterous affair because his wife "doesn't understand him?"  This is so
much total bullshit.  No spouse committed to a relationship has the *right*
to do whatever he/she feels because he/she feels the relationship is lacking
somewhere.  Was there communication about needs being unfulfilled?  Was
there ever any open discussion with the partner about what is lacking in the
relationship?  The internet is safer than a bar, but far more deadly.  An
affair on-line is still an affair of the heart and mind if not the body.  It
is still an affair and should be considered adultery in my book.

Patrick

Just curious--how do you access logs of chat conversations?  

Pat

on AOL, "member svcs."

good luck,
Dana
**************************************************************************
*****************************Oh damn, is that a lifesaver stuck to my butt?

While I agree with the second part of your reply, I can't say as I fully
agree with the first part (or at least I don't agree that it is true for
EVERY woman whose husband gets caught up in cybersex.) For some or even
alot, maybe, but I think that saying it is the wife's fault when her
husband gets involved in cybersex because she hasn't paid enough
attention to him is pretty much leaping to conclusions. Do you also
think
that when a man has a 'real' affair it's because his wife hasn't paid
enough attention to him?

Tracey

<<>If you paid any bit of attention and tried just the slightest to pay
 attention to your  married partner, he/she probably would not have found any
 interest in pursuing cyber activities, beyond the original novelty.

 guarantee it is a lack of discussion and lack of being able to compromise on
 both parts as to what needs to be changed.
 sides could communicate.

I find your argument totally inane and offensive. >>

Sorry I agree with this $.02 person.  For the most part, people don't cheat for
 the thrill of it.  It is because they need some support and affection and a
 whole host of other things.  An affair in a marriage is a sign that something
 is not working and it takes TWO to make the relationship work.  Both partners
 have had an effect on the marriage and how it got to the state it is in.  

<< Do you also think that when a man has a 'real' affair it's because his wife
 hasn't paid enough attention to him?>>

I sure do....  for SOME people this is very true.  It could also be that the
 wife and husband are not communicating at all.... (which is both their
 faults).......it could be a whole host of things...

<< Do you also think that when a man has a 'real' affair it's because
his <<wife hasn't paid enough attention to him?>>

<I sure do....  for SOME people this is very true.  It could also be
that <the wife and husband are not communicating at all.... (which is
both <their faults).......it could be a whole host of things...

Spunky
I agree with you. I was taking offense at the fact that the poster
seemed to want to make it ALL the wives' fault that their husbands were
caught up in cybersex. I seem to have this pathological urge to point
out when generalizations/absolutes are stated as THE reason.

Tracey

Pat, not logs on chat (although I've heard you can do this somehow), letters on
 hard drive.
There is a famous murder going on right now in this state (15 yr old murdered
 an 11 yr old) and the cops conviscated the teen's computer's hard drive for
 his letters.
On AOL its easy to find the letters--even w/o a password!

Hi Group
Getting letters and logs off the AOL provider can be done if your personal file
 cabinet is set to save anything.  It too, can be accessed through the file
 manager.  Any provider can be set to save logs and/or letters as a default.  

If you do not intentionally save logs and letters, the computer eventually
 deletes the temp files at various rates.  This can be altered by Defragging
 the C:\ drive from your system tools file.  This can be Win95 0r Win 3.1

DOS 6.2 can defrag by typing defrag at the C prompt.
Astrid Alexander

How do you access chat logs?... VERY CAREFULLY ;->
Joe

In article <343E9E78.5...@earthlink.net>, pmcaff...@earthlink.net
says...

Sorry I agree with this $.02 person.  For the most part, people don't cheat for
the thrill of it.  It is because they need some support and affection and a
whole host of other things.  An affair in a marriage is a sign that something
is not working and it takes TWO to make the relationship work.  Both partners
have had an effect on the marriage and how it got to the state it is in.  

snip

And you base this declaration on ... what?

An affair in a marriage is a sign that the person having the affair wants
something not in the marriage -- but THAT doesn't mean the partner is in any
way neglecting them or not "working". MY ex simply wanted MORE. More partners,
more variety, more kinkiness... the only way I could have "worked" that out
was to clone myself (preferably adding some Asian DNA) so there were at least
two of me, have a sex change then back (he had some transgender partners), and
become willing to submit to S/M D/s behavior (his latest bimbo was a 24/7
slave who did all the housework, all the yard work, drove him around,
submitted to torture (including piercing her nipples) PLUS paid him $500 a
month rent.) It had nothing to do with me, in fact he even commented as
recently as a few months ago that he had contemplated living with me again as
long as he could have this stuff on the side. (HA!) Sometimes people (and in
my experience it's nearly always men) simply have non-monogamous personal
agendas. You tolerate it (like I did for way way too long, deluding myself
that it was a "phase") or you get out. You can't make a partner behave in any
given way, and if you think "dedication and hard work" will keep a marriage
happy when you are married to one of these types, you are in for a rude
awakening.

If marriage is something youwant, get realistic about the person you want to
marry.

Sherry

I posted something in general about responsibility for "straying", but I also
want to address Cybersex. (The original post has expired on my system, but I
don't need it!)

Cybersex is shared fantasy. If the sharing is important with particular
people, I think it's the same as real life sharing -- and if you believe in
monogamy it's an infringement on spousal rights. If it's instant messages and
dirty words between a person and random willing participants, then it depends
on whether juvenile behavior bothers you or not. (It does me, but that's me.)

My ex, before we separated then divorced, spent literally hours (six or more,
frequently) continuously involved with ongoing cybersexual realtionships with
a few specific people over a long period of time. (I thought he'd "get over
it" so I hung in -- I was way wrong.) This resulted in him not spending any
quality time with me, even though I truly loved him and wanted to, was willing
to do nearly anything to save our marriage, and even though he knew how much
he was hurting me. (Obsessive-compulsive behavior is one diagnosis he had,
although he argued it.)

But if the question was "is it LEGAL grounds for divorce" then I would guess
it depends on your state. Most places, you might as well go for
"irreconcilable differences" (I think it fits anyhow, I consider being
abandoned for a glowing screen pretty irreconcilable!).

If the question was really "is this grounds for concern" then I say,
absolutely! But only if you perceive it to be a problem between you -- if it's
a hobby, not particularly compulsive, and not interfering in YOUR
relationship, then I guess it's not, although I never met anyone who felt
quite that way about it.

Sherry

Dear Sherry-

   I had to chime in with a "me too!"  When my husband and I started
arguing constantly last November, I offered to get counseling together.
He thought counseling was stupid.  We patched things up but he continued
to share sex fantasies with his cyberspace pen pal and I continued to
object and ask for us to work on the relationship.  In Jan. I told him
that I would understand if he needed a divorce, but that I would never
forgive him for cheating (real life).  I was diagnosed with clinical
depression after 7 months of this cybersex arguement.  I know that
something was MISSING from our relationship.  But it pisses me off that
people think that an affair is anything but a cowardly selfish act.  IF
you want to sleep with someone else, have the decency to leave the
marriage before indulging your adolescent fantasies!
   This son of a bitch lied to the therapist when we finally got into
counseling.  He borrowed my mother's car and drove to Vegas to screw his
cyberpal in a hotel room paid for by my father as a birthday present!

Where does this fit into some people's theory that the victim partner
wasn't paying attention?

M.  (ooh, I guess I'm a little bitter tonite.  Hmm, best get back to the
therapist.)

You know, after having to deal with this subject myself, I have
come to believe that the root cause of affairs are that something
is missing from the base relationship/marriage. It could be lots
of things. A certain 'variety' of sex, an emotional closeness,
a feeling of being respected, a feeling of being 'wanted, a low
self-esteem, whatever. What I don't agree with is that this means
the spouse is automatically 'at fault' for not noticing that their
spouse was needing something they weren't getting. Some people will
deny there is anything wrong until the day they walk out the door.
(BTDTGTTS.) And if one partner is saying 'What's wrong? Talk to me,'
and the other is saying 'Nothing,' or bringing up extraneous issues
that are not the REAL problem, there is little you can do about it.
So, yes, I do believe the root cause of an affair is because there
is something wrong in the relationship, but in no way do I believe
that that the spouse who didn't cheat should automatically be assumed
to have been inattentive.

Tracey