Marriage Counseling? - Opinions/Advice please!
Dewis Baas
some opinions/advice on marriage counseling....
First, my situation, I'll try to keep it brief as possible...
My wife and I have been married for 2 years, dated for almost 5 years before
that. We first began having problems a few months before the wedding, but
figured it was just the "normal" jitters. About 6 months after we were
married, the old problems came back, plus some new ones too. Well, here we
are now, two years into our marriage and nothing seems to be working out. We
have had on and off financial problems, personality conflicts, and just seem
to be growing in two seperate directions and about what we want out of life.
One of the more problematic differences between us is that I have always
been a very "independant" person, while she has been more of the
"co-dependant" type. It seems as if she wants more of a father-figure rather
than a husband. Our sex life is non-existant, we havn't had sex in over a
year, and maybe only 2 or 3 times since we've been married. She has always
had a very conservative attitude towards sex in general, but I had hoped
that she would "loosen up" once we were married and it became "legit".
Unfortunately, she still has "guilty" feelings about sex and I only see that
getting worse in the future. We also have the whole issue of starting a
family and buying a house. I want children as well, but not for a few more
years yet. She wants a children a lot sooner than that...
Back in May, I realized our problems were at the point where *something*
needed to be done. We had both thrown the "D-word" back and forth a few
times before, although I'm not sure how seriously. I told her that we had
too many issues here and suggested we try an informal separation, just to
step back and reflect for awhile. She was rather "insulted" by this
suggestion and instead of a discussion, turned into a huge fight. She left
for a week and stayed with some friends of ours. After the week was up, we
talked and decided that we would try to work things out. She came home and
we talked about our problems and came up with a few ideas on how to work
them out. This went fine for about a week or so, then we were back to the
same old stuff, in full circle, and now it seems to have gotten even worse!
Just last week, after about a good solid month of nothing but unhappiness
and misery, we decided that the situation was hopeless and not going to
work, and agreed to get a divorce. We are both fairly young (30) and feel
it's not too late for us to continue on with our lives adn rebuild. The LAST
thing I would want is to have children and a house involved, only to break
up later and have this become even more of a mess. We do not jointly own any
substantial property nor have any disagreements about how to settle this, no
kids, etc. So it would be a fairly "easy" thing to do, just a matter of
filing the paperwork. Ironically, since we came to this agreement about the
divorce, there has been this amazing sense of "peace" in the house, perhaps
like a big sigh of relief that the misery is finally over. And we are both
getting along much better (although awkawrdly) than we have in a long time.
Is this a typical reaction?
We are still on friendly terms and she is going to be living in our apt. for
a few more weeks while we make arrangements and her work sets-up a transfer
for her. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not, but figure it's the least
I can do. We don't hate each other and still have a little bit of feelings
left.
But since our decision to divorce was made, we've both been flip-flopping on
whether we really want to go through with it or not. I suppose it's normal
to have some doubts and I wonder sometimes if I will regret this years from
now, after it's too late. Then again, I do not want to regret NOT getting a
divorce several years later when kids/house are in the picture. It's
definitely the *hardest* decision I've had to make. Even though we agree
it's probably for the best, we both still seem to feel scared and are
perhaps just hanging on because of that. Because there are still doubts, I
suggested that maybe we should just try a long-term (3 to 6 months)
separation and then decide if we are happier or not... although, from what
I've read, that may not be the best idea. My wife's feelings are that if we
are going to end it, then we are going to end it now and not drag things out
any longer, and in some ways, I also agree with that.
We have both been "begged" by friends and family to give it one last shot
and try marriage counseling. Neither of us are exactly crazy about that
idea, but have been "flip-flopping" on it and wonder if maybe we should at
least try. However, we don't want (and can't afford) to spend thousands of
$$$ and several months while having this just drag on and on... I told her I
was willing to TRY it once or twice, but made no promises or guarantees, and
that if I thought it was "baloney" after a few times, then that was it. But
I also said that if I felt it might be working and have some potential, then
I would continue with the sessions. I'm just being as honest as possible
here. She didn't like what I said about making "no guarantees" and also
seems to (wrongly, IMHO) view counseling as something that if you go to,
then it's this "magic cure", so she rejected my offer. She also seems to
view counseling as a way to "fix" ME, that I'm the only one here that needs
help, they're all MY problems. Of course I disagree, if we do this, it must
be for BOTH of us. So, a few days later we find ourselves flip-flopping on
the counseling issue yet again, and wondering if it would be worth it or if
our problems are ones that can even be solved in the first place.
So I'd like to ask the people here that have actually *tried* counseling
themselves... Did it work for you? Why or why not? What can you
realistically expect to accomplish from it? And in my situation, do you
think there's any potential?
Personally, I am very skeptical and think perhaps we may be thinking about
it for the wrong reasons - like to satisfy our family/friends and even to
help clear my conscience that I had tried everything possible to save this.
Thanks in advance, and I'd very much appreciate any responses, either here
or to my email at: mike...@yahoo.com
Carol Lowry
"Dewis Baas" <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4e217.155040$%i7.103...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
Karen Ronan
by friends and family, which is the real reason you're there.
(nothing wrong with that)
You don't have to try to miraculously save the marriage
in therapy.
You could go there to reach some acceptance of your decision
so you don't flip-flop anymore.
Karen
billh
marriage counseling?
good luck
BillH
Dewis Baas wrote:
> Hi all, new to this group (unfortunately, lol) and would like to ask for
> some opinions/advice on marriage counseling....
>
big snip
Capri
are now in the middle of a divorce, it obviously wasn't successful,
but I think that may have been because we started about 7 years too
late. And I could certainly see how it could help some couples and
would urge you to consider trying it. Don't worry about a gaurentee -
nothing in this world is certain. The best you can do is agree to take
it seriously.
The counseling did help us with our interpersonal skills - we used the
tools the counseler suggested and could communicate about things that
we had not been able to earlier. So why the divorce? It didn't change
the way my stbx behaved "off the ball" (A basketball term, not a
sexual reference). It didn't matter to me if he was treating me better
if he was still drinking to excess and screaming at the kids. He would
never admit that his drinking was part of the problem so he refused to
address it. If the marriage didn't have this additional "issue" I'm
guessing we'd still be together.
Dewis Baas
news:3B44E2C5...@yahoo.com...
> if one of your "friends' wrote this to you, would you encourage him to
seek
> marriage counseling?
> good luck
Good point, Bill...
Since I have not tried it myself, then I wouldn't know what to tell him...
I've been hearing both good and bad here.
My wife and I have agreed that when you add up everything and look at it
through a "technical" standpoint, it's obviously never gonna work. But then
there is all the stuff on the side with "emotional attatchments", etc. and
that's what makes it so difficult.
thanks - mike
In_Pain
because I did most of the talking in counseling while my ex sat there and
made no effort. Then I heard from him later about how I had all these
problems with him and we never talked about his problems with me in
counseling. I believe counseling would work if both partners want it to work
and give it 100 percent effort from both sides. If not, it's hopeless.
Dewis Baas
news:050720011945133156%Mac_...@hotmail.com...
> In article <4e217.155040$%i7.103...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com>, Dewis
> Baas <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm a little confused... about what to call you (Mike or Dewis?) and
> about why you would come to a DIVORCE newsgroup and ask if marriage
> counseling worked (doh!), rather than go to a MARRIAGE support group
> (alt.support.marriage) to ask about the potential of it working.
Well, don't like to always use my real name in the newsgroups to protect my
privacy to a degree. ;)
But thanks for pointing out that other newsgroup, I was unaware of it's
existance. I will post there as well, I'm trying to get both sides of the
coin here.
thanks!
Roger (Rog')
2nd in year 18 (the last). The 1st time it worked like a charm, the 2nd
lead to divorce.
Although I've joked about asking the last therapist for my money back, IMHO,
it was worth the effort both times. If you place any value on your
marriage, do it!
===Rog'===
"Dewis Baas" <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%E717.155492$%i7.103...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
Bruce Werner
05 Jul 2001 18:20:48 GMT: Dewis Baas wrote:
> Hi all, new to this group (unfortunately, lol) and would like to ask
> for some opinions/advice on marriage counseling....
I'm sorry to hear that you're facing a possible divorce, but, in any
event, welcome to ASD.
> She wants a children a lot sooner than that...
For heaven's sake, do *not* bring any kids into the world under these
circumstances!
> So I'd like to ask the people here that have actually *tried*
> counseling themselves... Did it work for you? Why or why not? What
> can you realistically expect to accomplish from it?
By all means see a counselor. You can "realistically expect" that
counseling will help each of you to understand the other's thoughts
and feelings, and better understanding is likely to result in better
decisions. If you do decide to divorce, a counselor can help both of
you to get through the process, and prepare you to enter any future
relationships with a better understanding of how all this stuff works.
I would say that even if you're wife won't join you in "marriage
counseling", go on your own, for your own sake.
My ex and I went to counseling every week for a year. It didn't save
the marriage, but I still fell that it was worth the time, money, and
effort. In our case, I think we waited too long to get started.
Your wife's idea of counseling as a "magic cure" is a common, but
mistaken notion. There are no guarantees.
> And in my situation, do you think there's any potential?
My gut feeling is that you're done for - but that's only a guess.
Please try counseling. It will likely do you good even if it doesn't
save the marriage.
All the best to you -
- Bruce
anonrat
Mike,
Your situation sounds very similar to my own. My husband and I are
currently separated (have been for about three weeks now). It is a
friendly split and we still talk occasionally. The problem in our
marriage was plain old irreconcilable differences. We have no children
and no property, just like you and your wife.
The emotional issues are very hard to deal with even when you know
breaking up is the right thing to do. I cannot tell you what I went
through when we decided to split. It was tough. Although we haven?t
yet filed papers, that is coming soon.
My husband and I attended a good two years of counseling, but it
didn?t help because sometimes you are just two very different people
who are never going to meet in the middle on certain issues. I finally
got it through my head after nearly four years of marriage and six
total years in the relationship that my husband was never going to
meet my needs and I was never going to meet his. Neither of us is a
bad person because of it, we?re just different.
Here?s the advice I can give you ? if you feel it is over, then it?s
over. I would recommend that you go to counseling either alone or with
your wife so that the counselor can help you or both of you get over
the initial shock of realizing that it is over and help you through
the emotions of the separation and eventual filing.
You mentioned that you had agreed to separate for 3 or 6 months. I
encourage you to do this because I can tell you that it will help you
get a perspective on things. It sure helped me. I was totally
devastated by the idea of separation from my husband, but when it
finally happened, it was a relief. I cried horribly for one day, was
sad for the next week and then somehow, things just got better day by
day, minute by minute.
What I?ve realized in being away from him is that I can make it
without him ? I can survive and that I will be okay. There is value in
that and the realization of it came quickly. Now all that is left to
do is say ?I think we need to file the papers now.? I have to admit to
having trouble bringing that issue up, but I will get there. I am
giving myself the time I need to make that statement.
Good luck to you and keep on posting!
Copeland Cole
100% committed to the process. It's no quick fix, and it may just show you
that you do indeed need to get divorced.
My ex and I went together and separately. I really felt like I opened up quite
a bit but there is no doubt that she did not. I think she already had her mind
made up and just wanted confirmation.
Copeland Cole
sdl
> I think you both owe it to yourself to try it. But, both people have to be
> 100% committed to the process.
Amen to that! It won't work if you don't *both* want it to. But
regardless, counseling can give you a great deal of insight on yourself,
and help you understand why things might have happened the way they did.
Give it more than a few sessions, because I don't think anyone could
really see dramatic results in such a short amount of time. If there is a
part of you that wants the marriage to work, I urge you to do what is best
for *you* (and not what friends and family tell you) to keep working at
it!
sdl
Dewis Baas
Just wanted to thank you all very much for sharing your experiences and
thoughts about marriage counseling...
My wife and I have decided to give it a shot and see how it goes, afterall,
it can't hurt to at least try.
We are going to try to be as honest as possible about our feelings and make
an effort while keeping an open mind. We both realize that it may just
validate our thoughts about divorce, if so, then fine. Or it could be the
best thing we ever did and work out great for us! So who knows, I think we
at least owe it to ourselves to check it out a few times and then decide
together if we should continue. So thank you all again for helping to sort
through all the confusion!
One interesting side note... I also posted this same message in
"alt.support.marriage", because I wanted to also hear from the "flip side of
the coin" and hear experiences from ALL. I received many more INTELLIGENT
and THOUGHTFUL responses here in "alt.support.divorce"! The responses I got
from that other group were nothing but negative and even downright
mean-spirited! Go figure, huh? Thanks again!
"Dewis Baas" <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4e217.155040$%i7.103...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
Barb Nieman
Gottman's "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work." Probably the
best book I've read on how marriage works, how it gets off-track and how (or
whether) to save it.
Barb
"Dewis Baas" <mike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Pae17.156286$%i7.104...@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
Dewis Baas
> No kidding... well! That's the last time I send someone THERE for
> advice on keeping their marriage together!
Ah, it was good advice, but was disappointed at the reactions I got from the
crowd in there.
I suspect that maight have something to with that many people reading that
group are already very angry/unhappy about the problems they are having and
quick to snap, otherwise they wouldn't be posting in "alt.marriage.support"
to begin with, right? LOL. ;)
ms_cal_
divorce, and don't actually know how much harder divorce is, compared to
making a marriage work?
Someone here has a great sig in that vein, but for the life of me, it
escapes me at the moment....it IS 3:35am, and I've read nearly 1000 posts
tonight, trying to catch up..although I admit to having skipped a few here
and there...
But the truth is, you can NEVER know how hard divorce is, unless you go
through it yourself. I feel very guilty for not supporting my sister very
well when she divorced her husband.