For Nahanton: a check-in
SofT
Just wanted to check in to see how you're feeling?
Feeling a bit concerned and wanting to lend some
support to you if I can. :O)
SofT
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Nahanton
>From: anon-...@anon.twwells.com (SofT)
>Date: Sat, Apr 6, 2002 03:44 PM
>Message-id: <a8nj63$1bdk$1...@server.twwells.com>
>
Hello Sierra....
Thank you for being concerned and wanting to lend some support. Just seeing
your post was a good feeling. :O)
I have a -very- complicated relationship with my older br*ther. Our p*rents
are long d*ad, and we have been very supportive of one another for many years.
About two years ago I remembered that he was one of my p*rps. He has always
said that he has no memory of anything before the age of 16, and I believe
that. Since the memory returned, it's been very difficult for me to retain our
'close' relationship. I'm very sure that if I confronted him with what
happened, he would have no memory of it. (It's very possible -he- was abused
too.) He's very ill now. Last summer he had his 5th heart attack, and had a
stroke as well. He was in a coma for about 10 days, and we were told that not
only did he have diabetes (we knew about that) but that he also had cirrhosis
of the liver and pancreatitis.
He is now living in a very small studio apartment near 3 of his 4 children. In
the last few years he has gone from being very wealthy to dead broke. He has
lost all of his friends due to a variety of reasons, and his children are
resistant to helping him. He has no one to help him except for me and his
kids. He's become very depressed and has gone back to drinking and eating all
of the foods that he's prohibited from. He says he wants to d*e because no one
cares about him and he has nothing to live for.
I'm completely overwhelmed by all of this. I'm "supposed" to step in and make
things right.....he and my adult nieces and nephews have always expected that
of me. I'm used to that expectation, but I find that I -can't- do it anymore.
I -can't- talk to him on the phone or go over and take him out to dinner. I
try to do it, and have been having major anxiety attacks every day. I told his
kids that I would try to contribute as much as I could, but that they can't
expect me to be in charge anymore. They're very angry and say that they have
their own lives to lead, and have always had "issues" with him. "Issues" LOL,
if they only knew what "issues" -I- have with him. :O(
I'm being "pulled apart" by this. My role has always been "caretaker," and I
find I can't even "caretake" me right now.
This is probably more than you or anyone wants to hear right now. I can sense
that lots of ppl are having a rough time of it. I hope that my life will
smooth out a little. I hope...I don't know what I hope....I'm so f'cking
discouraged.
Nahanton
Beauty
to know exactly how much you want to say, and you have a lot on your hands
- not only do you have the situation w/your br, but the anger of his
offspring to deal with. And then the conflict over your role - on top of
your own general situation. I like that you are making it clear what you
can and can't do anymore - esp., it sounds like, what you can't and won't
do. I'm sorry that you have to hear the anger - but maybe the next step is
to say you can't and won't listen to anymore of that, either . . .? I
don't know. I've been lucky - I've never been the caretaker type, perhaps,
but for sure living as far away from everyone as I do just makes it all
easier. I'm glad you spoke up and told about what is going on w/you. I
like knowing.
Beauty.
--
To email me, remove "nospam" from my address.
Nahanton <naha...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20020407122829...@mb-fy.aol.com>...
trill
absurd demands that your family makes of you. You have long since paid your
dues to that clan. Your br*ther made his own bed. And you know it. You've
been laundering the sheets for years, but he made the bed.
trill
Nahanton <naha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020407122829...@mb-fy.aol.com...
mischa bach
just jumping in to sceond trill's words. putting yourself first is definitely
what we wish for you here.
mischa's chaos
Nahanton
>From: "Beauty" bea...@nospam.zeppo.hm.uc.edu
>Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002 05:54 PM
>Message-id: <01c1ddb9$d414b660$0300a8c0@deborah>
>
Hi Beauty...
Thanks so much for your post. Hearing what you have to say about my situation
somehow makes it not seem as "selfish" and "bad" as I've been feeling. I have
made it clear to my nieces and nephews what I can do and what I can't do.
They're not happy with me, but they -are- going to call my brother's doctor,
and if necessary, take him to the hospital. I have one nephew who will keep me
informed as to what's happening.
The major problem is my feelings of guilt. I keep telling myself that he
doesn't have long to l*ve, and that if I hang in there for another week, or
month, before he d*es, that I'll be able to look back and say that I did the
right thing by him. My T pointed out to me today, that the right thing for him
is not necessarily the right thing for _me_. That being incapacitated with
anxiety attacks should be telling me something. I feel very sad however, that
I believe I'll be losing three of my four nieces and nephews. They don't
understand my behavior at all. I told them today that I cannot stand by and
watch him self-destruct, because that's exactly what he's doing. Thanks for
caring.
Nahanton
Nahanton
>From: "trill" tri...@juno.com
>Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002 08:58 PM
>Message-id: <3cb0ea94$0$84435$45be...@newscene.com>
trill....In a very concise way, you've aptly put the situation I'm in. I know
that I have paid "my dues". It's now trying to cognitively understand it, so
that these awful guilt feelings will subside. Anxiety attacks vs guilt
attacks??? I just want my head back on straight (well, sorta straight.)
Thanks, trill.
Nahanton
Nahanton
>From: "mischa bach" misch...@gmx.de
>Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002 04:59 AM
>Message-id: <zvfpunonputzkqr...@news.t-online.de>
Hi mischa....I'm so glad that you jumped in. Frankly, I need all the support I
can get. Thanks.
Nahanton
mischa bach
can you say "please feel supported by the usses"? 'Cuz that's what we wish to
do. even though it's just words on a screen, there are real feelings behind
it. we will be thinking of you. and looking out for your posts here, too.
michelle
(for mischa's chaos)
Itchy
> >From: "trill" tri...@juno.com
> >Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002 08:58 PM
> >Message-id: <3cb0ea94$0$84435$45be...@newscene.com>
>
> trill....In a very concise way, you've aptly put the situation I'm in. I
know
> that I have paid "my dues". It's now trying to cognitively understand
it, so
> that these awful guilt feelings will subside. Anxiety attacks vs guilt
> attacks??? I just want my head back on straight (well, sorta straight.)
> Thanks, trill.
>
> Nahanton
> >From: "trill" tri...@juno.com
> >Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002 08:58 PM
> >Message-id: <3cb0ea94$0$84435$45be...@newscene.com>
>
> trill....In a very concise way, you've aptly put the situation I'm in. I
know
> that I have paid "my dues". It's now trying to cognitively understand
it, so
> that these awful guilt feelings will subside. Anxiety attacks vs guilt
> attacks??? I just want my head back on straight (well, sorta straight.)
> Thanks, trill.
>
> Nahanton
Do we get to vote????!!!! I vote guilt, have to take less pills for it. I
also vote you out of that clan and into the clan of humanity where people
are fair and just and care about their fellow beings.
BIG WAVES from 14 :>) who is doing something normal in her day today for
the first time in months.
Cliff
I say ...go for the guilt also...
Then I suggest that you lose it real quick..
You don't deserve to be carrying it!!
>
Isn't there some kinda homecare that could be arranged for the bro? Would
his insurance cover it? Should his kids not be the ones dealing with these
issues?
J/c>Who puts on a BIG HAPPY FACE and says
***Hi-dee-hoo 14****
Really good to see you back!
Sorry that things have been so difficult for you!
"Itchy" <iam1...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:a8t36r$v5sj4$1...@ID-63887.news.dfncis.de...
sascha
lot of carings just for you. It has been hard for me to learn to put
myself even third or fourth in line, and I think it may be that way
for lots of us who are many.Has it been that way for you, too? I
believe, however, that there are times when that just has to be. I
hope that you are okay, and that your t continues to be supportive. I
agree with Cliff's idea of homecare. THat way you know he is cared for
properly, and if you feel up to visiting you can. LIsten to yourself,
dear nahanton. And don't feel that you are burdening us with this. We
are here as friends who care about you. jane
"Cliff" <cli...@escape.ca> wrote in message news:<_gps8.2379$1W1....@news1.mts.net>...
Beauty
I am sorry if the loss of the nieces/nephews thing comes to pass - it might
not, you know. And if it does, it might reverse itself. And you might at
some point be able to explain to them more clearly (when the critical
stages have all passed) what happened and why it had to happen that way. I
am glad that you are making these experiments with caring for Nahanton -
seeing what it feels like to do what is good for you at times when doing
what is asked of you is beyond what seems possible to do and remain within
the bounds of who you want to be. What is the "right" thing? By whose
standards? And - as your ther*pist implies - for whom? And - more to the
point - what exactly is the problem w/the nieces and nephews taking on a
whole lot more of the burden for this person who is, after all, their
fthr?????
Take care - keep talking to us through this. We'll be here, and we'll be
glad to be of the remotest help, even if just being someone who will read
through the posts of how you are sorting all of this through.
Best -
Beauty.
--
To email me, remove "nospam" from my address.
Nahanton <naha...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20020408151920...@mb-ct.aol.com>...
Dayzie Dayz
see your br. You said yourself that he has no memory before 16, was possibly
ab*sed also, and after so many heart attacks and a coma my gosh.... if nothing
else, you could spend one hour with him and appeal to his (inner) young child
which is s*ffering along with him (I truly believe we all, DID or not, have an
inner child).
He too has obviously been through he!! and how could a small gift and a gentle
word of encouragment in his later days not heal much for both of you.
I too recently came to the knowledge my 2nd eldest br was a p*rp and he
disgusts me, but I would go to his bedside, at least once. More if he was in
need. Some (terrible) things have to be released, especially while there's
still time. It would take looking at one photo of him as a boy and I'd be on my
way. Life is harsh and cr*el and he too needs any ounce of help he can hope
for. That's just how I sense it.
Forgive me if it is beyond your ability to do this. I know what it means to
have the body control during fe*rful things. Your health is also important. I'm
sorry life ever made you have to make this horrible, horrible choice. Whatever
you choose will be the right choice, either way.
And I ask myself...
"Would I really be so brave if it were me?"
"Would our other daisies?"
"No way. No way at all."
I could. They couldn't. Ruh Roh!
Be strong Nahanton and know your choice is maybe not a choice after all. I'm so
sorry.
now we dont wanna send this post
Dayz E (just another Dayzie)
P.S. Please, no one rip me apart about the inner child issue. It's my own
personal belief and wanted to feel free to express it.
>Subject: Re: For Nahanton: a check-in
>From: naha...@aol.com (Nahanton)
>Date: 04/07/2002 12:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20020407122829...@mb-fy.aol.com>
trill
scroll please.
Nahanton <naha...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020408152720...@mb-ct.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: For Nahanton: a check-in
> >From: "trill" tri...@juno.com
> >Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002 08:58 PM
> >Message-id: <3cb0ea94$0$84435$45be...@newscene.com>
>
> trill....In a very concise way, you've aptly put the situation I'm in. I
know
> that I have paid "my dues". It's now trying to cognitively understand
it,
You know it, therefore you cognitively understand it.
The way you don't understand it is emotionally.
> so
> that these awful guilt feelings will subside. Anxiety attacks vs guilt
> attacks???
But you seem to be suffering both, simultaneously. Perhaps the choice is to
give up both of them with one synapse. That is the snidely stated "bye bye"
synapse. Included in it is the queen's parade wave. "Bye bye, bye bye, bye
bye, bo bo bro." Since he shares your sense of humor, he'll probably at
least get a last laugh outa it.
> I just want my head back on straight (well, sorta straight.)
Lesseee... As long as I've known you your head has been so "straight" that
sometimes you didn't even recognize "queer" when you met it. <giggle>
(Always room for a joke, isn't there?) ;}
Listen to me, Nahanton. The reasons that you feel guilt and
anxiety are because your prps set you up to feel guilt and anxiety.
Fomenting those emotions in you were part of the ways, most of the ways,
that they managed to control you. They generated such strong feelings of
guilt and anxiety in you that not only did you not seek protection by
telling adults, you ended up protecting yourself by not telling yourself.
From here it looks like bro is still at it.
A little candor, if not total recall and disclosure (and I mean _way_ "not,"
with the nieces and nephews might make a difference, too.
Don't forget you've got us.
trill
> Thanks, trill.
You're welcome!
trill
Itchy <iam1...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:a8t36r$v5sj4$1...@ID-63887.news.dfncis.de...
> Hiya Nahanton...
Hiya from me, too, Nahanton.
You know, if 14 and I agree on something that it's gotta be the
absolute, metatotal, supranational, universal truth!!!!
So there!!!!!!
more below.
I vote what she has. And I up the ante to this: I betcha the guilt goes by
way of the anxiety.
And that clan, I think that would be us here at asd.
>
> BIG WAVES from 14 :>) who is doing something normal in her day today for
> the first time in months.
I don't know what you've been struggling with, 14, but I am glad to
learn that you are making progress, assuming that "normal" is your goal.
But then, knowing you, your definition of "normal" probably is bound by the
stuff that you normally do, and doesn't fit within the parameters of what
the so-called general public considers to be normal.
Big Waves To You Too. May the ocean rock you in its gentle arms. May
the moon light your way and the sun warm your heart.
trill
Itchy
14 :>)
"trill" <tri...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:3cb27185$0$7500$45be...@newscene.com...
who_me?
Nahanton, i don't have much to add to what ppl have already said.
guilt vs anxiety is a toughie. i agree with whomever said that you
seem to cognitively understand that you have no reason to feel guilty
but that your emotions don't seem to understand that.
it would be a shame to lose your nieces and nephews, esp bc you like
them a lot. (BTW, where's that emotional distance from your kids that
you used to talk about? i.e., the guilt for not really lving them
enough, etc. doesn't that work with your nieces and nephews? <g> it
should be working to your advantage here. go with it! ;) it's hard to
lose relationships, even if they are mostly one-sided. i'm wondering
how much a relationship is worth if the other ppl don't consider your
feelings or the cost to you of doing what you think is necessary to
maintain the relationships. i.e., if they truly care so little about
what taking care of your brother is costing you (emotionally,
financially, however), how good is that relationship anyway? that's
not a rhetorical Q, btw. i think only you and they can answer it.
maybe they don't understand how much it's costing you, esp
emotionally?
best to both of you,
e
"Itchy" <iam1...@msn.com> wrote in message news:<a8t36r$v5sj4$1...@ID-63887.news.dfncis.de>...
>Nahanton <naha...@aol.com> wrote:
> > trill....In a very concise way, you've aptly put the situation I'm in. I
> > know that I have paid "my dues". It's now trying to cognitively understand
> > it, so that these awful guilt feelings will subside. Anxiety attacks vs >guilt attacks??? I just want my head back on straight (well, sorta straight.)
> > Thanks, trill.
>
Itchy
> > BIG WAVES from 14 :>) who is doing something normal in her day today
for
> > the first time in months.
>
> I don't know what you've been struggling with, 14, but I am glad to
> learn that you are making progress, assuming that "normal" is your goal.
> But then, knowing you, your definition of "normal" probably is bound by
the
> stuff that you normally do, and doesn't fit within the parameters of what
> the so-called general public considers to be normal.
Yeah normal as in routine...
After 14 years the SO decided that she had enough of the relationship so
we've been struggling since January, emotionally and physically. Our world
has been ripped out from under us and we are just now getting new footing.
She got everything and we got the leftovers. The most painful part of the
split (no pun intended) was the loss of our dog. We had to find Section 8
housing and of course they don't allow pets. Every time we think about
Jessie our dog the tears start rolling down our face. She was the only one
who loved us not matter what and she was stolen away. It has been a very
dirty battle, having to fight for every inch and we are exhausted,
overwhelmed and heartbroken. So that's the short version of why we've been
absent for awhile from asd.
Maybe we'll start getting back here more often now that we have a roof over
our head and food in the fridge.
Glad to talk to you trill. Yeah, we don't often agree but I still consider
you a friend.
14
trill
more later.
I am glad to know you are in safe housing, but this whole "surprise!"
What a terrible ordeal.
I'll be back.
trill
Itchy <iam1...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:a8v4qa$vb5jq$1...@ID-63887.news.dfncis.de...
trill
This is a grave and large loss. I have deep sympathies for you. Should
you wish to talk about the difficulties, both logistic and emotional, I will
be glad to listen and offer condolences, comfort, and, if any sort of
miraculous insight or knowledge about dealing with and coping in the
situation strikes me, I will offer it to you.
The 14 thing, I mean timing and your name and the significance of your
name. Wow. Oh no!
I'm not trying to depress you more or inspire worsened grief. It's my
philosophy, fwiw, however, not to try and tell people that it will all be
all right when they know as well as I that it won't. I prefer to
acknowledge how bad it is, show respect for the grief, and offer my support
during the throes of it.
Perhaps that time has passed for you. If so, you are more resilient
than I, and I tip my hat to you. For me, working out all the logistical
cr*p of moving and getting set up in my new home would be a distraction.
Once I was sorta settled, the overwhelming bit would catch up to me. I
would and I have, when love and intimate companionship has been lost, spent
weeks to months looking at the walls and doing little else other than
changing my weight in one direction or another. Whatever the case for you
right now, I urge you to read b*ll (e) ho*ks(o) book called _All Abo*t
L*ve_. She wrote it when she and a partner of many years ended their
relationship. It is sensitive, thoughtful, insightful, articulate, and,
most importantly, it inspires hope in the midst of the most profound sorts
of grief.
I live in similar economic circumstances to yours. If you want any
consultations on ways in which I have coped with that and resources that
I've located and tapped into, please ask. I'll be glad to share everything
I know.
With everything going on in the economy and Dubya at the helm, I think
you are EXTREMELY lucky to get the increasingly rarer Section 8 housing. I
don't know what that's like in your state, but here, where the poor live in
the shadow of a big chunk of some of the wealthiest and most influential
people in the world, we manage to get some pretty good bennies. This is
because the rich are always throwing away so much of their stuff -- stuff
that's in great condition, too.
I don't have Section 8 housing. Instead, the county gives me $200. of
rental assistance. This means that I pay $500 a mo for a so-rated $700
apartment. The county also pays my utility bills. Now, of course this
helps, but consider the ratio of everything. I get $605 per mo. from SSDI.
My health insurance, through COBRA, which I'm not willing to give up, is
$516 per mo. But med*ca*d is just for pretend, so, luckily, my sister is
willing to pay the premiums for me until med*care kicks in this coming
October. Then I can get some supplemental insurance and a pharmacy plan for
less than half of those premiums. I need that stuff. Between thrpy and all
the other health care needs and medications I rely upon, even these high
premiums are a pittance compared to what I'd have to pay outa pocket for the
same services.
Buying new music CDs and new books, even new used books, are things I
miss tremendously. When working, I used to go record and book shopping
every pay day and pick up absolutely everything I wanted. I'm grateful, at
least, that I do have an enormous record and book collection. I haven't yet
read all of my books and I haven't yet tired of listening to all of my
recordings. I look forward to the day when I will be able to indulge myself
in those things again.
For a long time, after I stopped working and went on disability, I hid
in shame inside of my apartment. And all that happened to me as I ended a
relationship with a woman who, although she behaved abusively to me, was
always a pleasure to look at, and she appealed to all of my other senses
equally well. When she wasn't abusive stuff was great, of course. That's
how the story always goes, I know. Still, that is how it went for me. She
is brilliant and talented and great fun to talk with about all sorts of
fascinating subjects. She is a talented equestrian and a volunteer park
ranger. She is also a university professor. We met at work. Anyway,
that's probably enough for you to get the picture. I've also talked about
her in other threads over the two years that I've been hanging around these
parts.
I've been lonely.
Thank goodness for some of the "side" effects of celexa.
Well, that's about all I can ramble around on right now. Escribame en
privado si queres, o aqui en la grupa de noticias.
nos vemos, mi companera y amiga. Que la vaya bien.
trill
Itchy <iam1...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:a8v4qa$vb5jq$1...@ID-63887.news.dfncis.de...
Beauty
furred friend is almost the hardest to bear - the most cr*el. I wish you
better days.
Beauty.
--
To email me, remove "nospam" from my address.
trill <tri...@juno.com> wrote in article
<3cb385f2$0$83394$45be...@newscene.com>...
SofT
Wow, lots of ppl jumped in to comment already, that's
kewl. Sorry that I'm a bit slow on the uptake, I'm
currently downing a fourth antibiotic and to put things
mildly, I feel like sh*t physically.
> Thank you for being concerned and wanting to lend some
> support. Just seeing your post was a good feeling. :O)
Yer welcome and I'm very glad it evoked a good feeling.
I care. :O)
About the brthr... very tough stuff to contend with, Nahanton,
my heart goes out to you and to all of those who struggle with
sibling ab*se. Sadly, I'm intimately familiar with sibling ab*se
so much of what you spoke to resonated. The hardest thing
I've had to learn re: a relationship with siblings with a hx of
ab*sing is that simply bc they're bl**d-related to me, it doesn't
mean that I have to give them permanent (or even temporary)
access to my life. So many ppl dumped so much guilt upon
me about family ties ... well, ime, family ties can do more than
bind a person, they can make a person wither when pieces of
their s*ul loses circulation (and d*es). Caretaking roles are
a toughie to pull oneself free from and again ime, it's always
been a tricky balance and when things have gotten unbalanced
it was due to my not taking care proper care of myself and
way to preoccupied with someone else's happiness and
comfort. Ok, enough said for now.
Pls don't worry about sharing more than I wanted to hear, ok.
Right now, I can listen far more than I am able to respond (at
length anyway *g*).
Nahanton
>Date: Wed, Apr 10, 2002 05:24 PM
>Message-id: <a92ahk$17l6$1...@server.junkproof.net>
>
>Hello Sierra (Or would you prefer SofT?)
Hello Nahanton,
>
>Wow, lots of ppl jumped in to comment already, that's
>kewl.
I'm overwhelmed by all of the ppl here, and a special thanks to you...You, I
believe, wrote the post asking me what was going on. If you hadn't, I wouldn't
have prodded myself to post. If I hadn't posted, I wouldn't have gotten the
wonderful support........
Sorry that I'm a bit slow on the uptake, I'm
>currently downing a fourth antibiotic and to put things
>mildly, I feel like sh*t physically.
D*mn it all to h*ll. The fourth antibiotic? It's so awful to be so sick for
so long. I send you some of my "epiphany" to help you. I don't know that they
help with illness, but you've tried all of those antibiotics... :O)
>
>> Thank you for being concerned and wanting to lend some
>> support. Just seeing your post was a good feeling. :O)
>
>Yer welcome and I'm very glad it evoked a good feeling.
>I care. :O)
That means a great deal to me, Sierra. It felt -very- good.
>
>About the brthr... very tough stuff to contend with, Nahanton,
>my heart goes out to you and to all of those who struggle with
>sibling ab*se. Sadly, I'm intimately familiar with sibling ab*se
>so much of what you spoke to resonated. The hardest thing
>I've had to learn re: a relationship with siblings with a hx of
>ab*sing is that simply bc they're bl**d-related to me, it doesn't
>mean that I have to give them permanent (or even temporary)
>access to my life. So many ppl dumped so much guilt upon
>me about family ties ... well, ime, family ties can do more than
>bind a person, they can make a person wither when pieces of
>their s*ul loses circulation (and d*es). Caretaking roles are
>a toughie to pull oneself free from and again ime, it's always
>been a tricky balance and when things have gotten unbalanced
>it was due to my not taking care proper care of myself and
>way to preoccupied with someone else's happiness and
>comfort. Ok, enough said for now.
So you know about the anxiety and guilt that family members can inspire (or
conspire)? You say it very well: "family ties can do more than bind a person,
they can make a person wither when pieces of their s*ul loses circulation (and
d*es)." Those words IMO say it very well. I was drowning in guilt. I have
always been the caretaker for "everyone," and is shocked even me when I was
just too worn out to continue. I don't believe that they'll ever forgive me,
but, finally it's okay if they don't. As the 12 year old pdoc said, "Everyone
has to take responsibility for themselves." I didn't know that. :O) He also
said that ppl who were *bused as children have in most cases never learned
about how much responsibility is appropriate. They constantly think that if
they had taken more responsibility so and so wouldn't have happened.....duh!!!
>
>Pls don't worry about sharing more than I wanted to hear, ok.
>Right now, I can listen far more than I am able to respond (at
>length anyway *g*).
I'm sending you "mighty" wishes for your health. I hope you'll feel better
very soon.
Nahanton
>
>SofT
>
Itchy
"trill" <tri...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:3cb385f2$0$83394$45be...@newscene.com...
> Dear 14,
> This is a grave and large loss. I have deep sympathies for you.
Thank you...
Should
> you wish to talk about the difficulties, both logistic and emotional, I
will
> be glad to listen and offer condolences, comfort, and, if any sort of
> miraculous insight or knowledge about dealing with and coping in the
> situation strikes me, I will offer it to you.
So far so good but if I run into trouble you will be the first person I will
contact. We may not always agree but you are very well versed in this
particular area.
> The 14 thing, I mean timing and your name and the significance of your
> name. Wow. Oh no!
Yeah, kinda prophetic isn't it?
> I'm not trying to depress you more or inspire worsened grief. It's my
> philosophy, fwiw, however, not to try and tell people that it will all be
> all right when they know as well as I that it won't.
Thanks for not patronizing, as most people know it takes a long time and
lots of work to grieve through a lost relationship. I know in time it will
get better but for now it just sucks.
I prefer to
> acknowledge how bad it is, show respect for the grief, and offer my
support
> during the throes of it.
:)
> Perhaps that time has passed for you. If so, you are more resilient
> than I, and I tip my hat to you. For me, working out all the logistical
> cr*p of moving and getting set up in my new home would be a distraction.
Moving and setting up has been a distraction but comes the night and it all
flows back into my mind and heart and we weep well into the darkness.
Ironically we don't long for the ex we long for our dog and the emptiness
the loss brings. The ex made all the decisions and we had no control and
she decided we could not have our dog. Considering we had to move into
section 8 it was a moot point but it would have been nice to have a choice.
The silence of not hearing our dog snore or the clicking of her nails on the
floor or the barking when a stranger comes to the door is profoundly sad for
us. We weep as we type this....
> Once I was sorta settled, the overwhelming bit would catch up to me. I
> would and I have, when love and intimate companionship has been lost,
spent
> weeks to months looking at the walls and doing little else other than
> changing my weight in one direction or another.
I refuse to pine away and waste my time locked in my apartment. I go to
group, t, and am meeting neighbors. I have friends over who are helping me
assemble one big ass computer desk, and then we laugh when we've discovered
we put the wrong thingy on the wrong thing. I will grieve but I will also
live my life as best I can.
Whatever the case for you
> right now, I urge you to read b*ll (e) ho*ks(o) book called _All Abo*t
> L*ve_. She wrote it when she and a partner of many years ended their
> relationship. It is sensitive, thoughtful, insightful, articulate, and,
> most importantly, it inspires hope in the midst of the most profound sorts
> of grief.
I'll pick it up, thanks for the suggestion.
> I live in similar economic circumstances to yours. If you want any
> consultations on ways in which I have coped with that and resources that
> I've located and tapped into, please ask. I'll be glad to share
everything
> I know.
I will, my pride will not stop me from asking for help. :>)
> With everything going on in the economy and Dubya at the helm, I think
> you are EXTREMELY lucky to get the increasingly rarer Section 8 housing.
I was very lucky. I found a "no wait" list and zipped right through in less
than 3 weeks.
I
> don't know what that's like in your state, but here, where the poor live
in
> the shadow of a big chunk of some of the wealthiest and most influential
> people in the world, we manage to get some pretty good bennies.
Yeah, I now live in the wealthiest square mile and I'm learning about he
bennies as I go. The 2 gals who run the office here are very knowledgeable
and helpful.
This is
> because the rich are always throwing away so much of their stuff -- stuff
> that's in great condition, too.
> I don't have Section 8 housing. Instead, the county gives me $200. of
> rental assistance. This means that I pay $500 a mo for a so-rated $700
> apartment. The county also pays my utility bills. Now, of course this
> helps, but consider the ratio of everything. I get $605 per mo. from
SSDI.
> My health insurance, through COBRA, which I'm not willing to give up, is
> $516 per mo. But med*ca*d is just for pretend, so, luckily, my sister is
> willing to pay the premiums for me until med*care kicks in this coming
> October. Then I can get some supplemental insurance and a pharmacy plan
for
> less than half of those premiums. I need that stuff.
It's scary to have to live so close to poverty and the idea of being
homeless. I've read other threads where you've described your situation
never dreaming I'd be in the same situation. Irony....
Between thrpy and all
> the other health care needs and medications I rely upon, even these high
> premiums are a pittance compared to what I'd have to pay outa pocket for
the
> same services.
> Buying new music CDs and new books, even new used books, are things I
> miss tremendously. When working, I used to go record and book shopping
> every pay day and pick up absolutely everything I wanted. I'm grateful,
at
> least, that I do have an enormous record and book collection. I haven't
yet
> read all of my books and I haven't yet tired of listening to all of my
> recordings. I look forward to the day when I will be able to indulge
myself
> in those things again.
You will my friend... some day.... we both will again....
> For a long time, after I stopped working and went on disability, I hid
> in shame inside of my apartment. And all that happened to me as I ended a
> relationship with a woman who, although she behaved abusively to me, was
> always a pleasure to look at, and she appealed to all of my other senses
> equally well. When she wasn't abusive stuff was great, of course.
I am beginning to find out that the ex took advantage of our "lost time" and
how that impacted everything. This week my t told me she thought the ex had
lied about something in a couples session, which was very validating for me.
I think we had a sick relationship and didn't recognize it and hind sight is
always 20/20.
Thanks for all you've offered
14
SofT
> >Wow, lots of ppl jumped in to comment already, that's
> >kewl.
>
> I'm overwhelmed by all of the ppl here,
Ditto.
> and a special thanks to you...
*blush* No need, really.
> You, I believe, wrote the post asking me what was going on.
> If you hadn't, I wouldn't have prodded myself to post. If I
> hadn't posted, I wouldn't have gotten the wonderful support...
Kewl it worked out like that. :O)
> >Sorry that I'm a bit slow on the uptake, I'm currently
> >downing a fourth antibiotic and to put things mildly, I
> >feel like sh*t physically.
>
> D*mn it all to h*ll. The fourth antibiotic?
Yep. I can already tell it's not working, just like I could
tell it wasn't working with the first, second and third anti-b.
I'm trying not to get too discouraged. I'm still taking it while
working really hard on being regular about it bc it's a
regiment that's more than once a day, suppose to be evenly
spaced for two weeks, etc, etc, you know the drill. I have an
appt with a specialist next week. I just wish ... I just wish the
specialist was a woman. I'm more comfortable with a woman
physician. I'm going to see if I can find a woman spec who
will accept my insurance and who can see me within the next
week (am I asking for too much or what? tall order? *g*). I
made the appt with the referring specialist just in case I can't
find what I'd prefer. Getting a more indepth idea of what's
going on and what to do next appears more important than
gender, least at the moment it appears that way. *big grin*
If only they (male d*ctors) could diagnose the problem and
treat it without touching me. *VBG*
> It's so awful to be so sick for so long.
Thanks for saying that ... it is.
> I send you some of my "epiphany" to help you. I don't
> know that they help with illness, but you've tried all of
> those antibiotics... :O)
Thanks. I graciously accept your gift.
> >> Thank you for being concerned and wanting to lend some
> >> support. Just seeing your post was a good feeling. :O)
> >
> >Yer welcome and I'm very glad it evoked a good feeling.
> >I care. :O)
>
> That means a great deal to me, Sierra. It felt -very- good.
:O)
> >About the brthr... very tough stuff to contend with, Nahanton,
> >my heart goes out to you and to all those who struggle with
> >sibling ab*se. Sadly, I'm intimately familiar with sibling ab*se
> >so much of what you spoke to resonated. The hardest thing
> >I've had to learn re: a relationship with siblings with a hx of
> >ab*sing is that simply bc they're bl**d-related to me, it doesn't
> >mean that I have to give them permanent (or even temporary)
> >access to my life. So many ppl dumped so much guilt upon
> >me about family ties ... well, ime, family ties can do more than
> >bind a person, they can make a person wither when pieces of
> >their s*ul loses circulation (and d*es). Caretaking roles are
> >a toughie to pull oneself free from and again ime, it's always
> >been a tricky balance and when things have gotten unbalanced
> >it was due to my not taking care proper care of myself and
> >way too preoccupied with someone else's happiness and
> >comfort. Ok, enough said for now.
>
> So you know about the anxiety and guilt that family members
> can inspire (or conspire)?
Yes, I do. Anxiety about the repercussions for mutiny (ie. any
deviation from the status quo), guilt for 'lack of loyalty', causing
disgrace. I'm sure if I thought about it, I could list a bunch of
different ways and lengths to which family mbrs imposed guilt.
> You say it very well: "family ties can do more than bind a
> person, they can make a person wither when pieces of their
> s*ul loses circulation (and d*es)." Those words IMO say
> it very well. I was drowning in guilt.
:O( :O( :O(
> I have always been the caretaker for "everyone," and is
> shocked even me when I was just too worn out to continue.
It's quite a quandry when what you've always done becomes
naught, yep.
> I don't believe that they'll ever forgive me, but, finally it's
> okay if they don't.
What a wedge (prolly more like an abyss) this must create
between all of you. *total bummer* Bummer that you live
your life thinking you've done something unforgiveable. :O(
> As the 12 year old pdoc said, "Everyone has to take
> responsibility for themselves." I didn't know that. :O) He
> also said that ppl who were *bused as children have in
> most cases never learned about how much responsibility
> is appropriate. They constantly think that if they had taken
> more responsibility so and so wouldn't have happened.....
> duh!!!
I think what he's said prolly has a lot of merit. I know I'm
constantly dealing with how to properly gauge, a prime
example is gauging my health and the body and what's the
proper response when such-n-such is going on with the
body. Having been an ab*sed child and learning hence
how to gauge responsibility, I think I was very fortunate to
have landed in a group home for girls that had a very
interesting approach (unbeknown to licensing I'm sure *g*),
it was a mix of M*rxism (a), Reality and G*stalt (e) T'py.
If you think about how "responsibility" is applied in each of
these philosophies, you'd have an idea of some of the
positive influences in my life. :O)
So, getting back to you *g*, do you think the pdoc might
have also been hinting at your responsibilities, your choices?
Are your choices being called into question? Is it time for a
change?
> >Pls don't worry about sharing more than I wanted to
> >hear, ok. Right now, I can listen far more than I am
> >able to respond (at length anyway *g*).
>
> I'm sending you "mighty" wishes for your health. I hope
> you'll feel better very soon.
Thanks, Nahanton. I hope to feel better soon too. The
other day when I saw my physician's referral-backup
for the second time and while she stood there struggling
to figure out what to script next that I'm not allergic to,
that might work, that is covered by insurance and while
trying not to admit me inpatient and fastly running out of
options, etc ... I said to her, "If you're struggling with how
to get me a med without admitting me, I'll gladly take an
IV bottle to go and come in for refills." *giggling*
Well, gotta go. Keep posting and I'll keep reading and
responding as I'm able. Fwiw, I think you're doing great.
Hang in there, Nahanton. *breathe deep*
SofT
PS. About what to refer to me as, whatever you're comfy
with is fine. I know ppl's sigs help me keep track of who's
who, etc so maybe for that reason, SofT would be better.
Your choice.
Nahanton
>Message-id: <a97dpd$16gj$1...@server.junkproof.net>
>
Hello Soft (This is going to take some getting used to. I don't "do" change
easily) :O)
>
> >downing a fourth antibiotic and to put things mildly, I
>> >feel like sh*t physically.
>>
>> D*mn it all to h*ll. The fourth antibiotic?
>
>Yep. I can already tell it's not working, just like I could
>tell it wasn't working with the first, second and third anti-b.
>I'm trying not to get too discouraged. I'm still taking it while
>working really hard on being regular about it bc it's a
>regiment that's more than once a day, suppose to be evenly
>spaced for two weeks, etc, etc, you know the drill. I have an
>appt with a specialist next week. I just wish ... I just wish the
>specialist was a woman. I'm more comfortable with a woman
>physician. I'm going to see if I can find a woman spec who
>will accept my insurance and who can see me within the next
>week (am I asking for too much or what? tall order? *g*). I
>made the appt with the referring specialist just in case I can't
>find what I'd prefer. Getting a more indepth idea of what's
>going on and what to do next appears more important than
>gender, least at the moment it appears that way. *big grin*
>If only they (male d*ctors) could diagnose the problem and
>treat it without touching me. *VBG*
Is part of the problem with the anti-b, because you've built up an immunity to
them, 'cause you've had to take them so long? I understand your desire to have
a woman d*ctor. I went for my yearly check-up yesterday, and my (woman)
internist told me she was moving her practice in June. This means I'll be
hunting for another. Don't like that one bit. (As I said earlier....I don't
like change.) I much prefer having women treat me. In fact, I'd rather they
"treat" me by mail or over the phone, but so far, I haven't managed to find one
who would. :O)
<snip>
>
>
>> So you know about the anxiety and guilt that family members
>> can inspire (or conspire)?
>
>Yes, I do. Anxiety about the repercussions for mutiny (ie. any
>deviation from the status quo), guilt for 'lack of loyalty', causing
>disgrace. I'm sure if I thought about it, I could list a bunch of
>different ways and lengths to which family mbrs imposed guilt.
>>
>> I don't believe that they'll ever forgive me, but, finally it's
>> okay if they don't.
>
>What a wedge (prolly more like an abyss) this must create
>between all of you. *total bummer* Bummer that you live
>your life thinking you've done something unforgiveable. :O(
That's exactly what's paralyzed me for all of these years. I finally realized
that "we" my bro., me and all of my cousins were conditioned by our p*rents
(who were siblings) That "no matter what, you must take care of the family."
My m*ther and her 5 br*thers were brought up as first generation, hungry, poor
street kids. They literally had to take care of one another and their
immigrant parents from the time they were very young. None of them finished
high school. They were all out there earning money in any way that they
could, to put food on the table. They squabbled among themselves, but if
anything/anyone tried to harm any of them, they "circled the wagons." Even
when they were all grown and married and were all living comfortably, they
never forgot that lesson, and passed it down to all of us. I truly believed
that it was "Law" everybody knew about....and maybe part of the Constitution.
:O) What I jokingly called an "epiphany," was in fact, truly one.
>
>> As the 12 year old pdoc said, "Everyone has to take
>> responsibility for themselves." I didn't know that. :O) He
>> also said that ppl who were *bused as children have in
>> most cases never learned about how much responsibility
>> is appropriate. They constantly think that if they had taken
>> more responsibility so and so wouldn't have happened.....
>> duh!!!
>
>I think what he's said prolly has a lot of merit. I know I'm
>constantly dealing with how to properly gauge, a prime
>example is gauging my health and the body and what's the
>proper response when such-n-such is going on with the
>body. Having been an ab*sed child and learning hence
>how to gauge responsibility, I think I was very fortunate to
>have landed in a group home for girls that had a very
>interesting approach (unbeknown to licensing I'm sure *g*),
>it was a mix of M*rxism (a), Reality and G*stalt (e) T'py.
>If you think about how "responsibility" is applied in each of
>these philosophies, you'd have an idea of some of the
>positive influences in my life. :O)
I'm afraid I don't understand these philosophies. I have, of course, heard of
them, but don't know how they would influence you in how you think about
responsibility. Would you explain? You say above that as an ab*sed child, you
learned how to gauge responsibility....my pdoc said just the opposite: that
many ab*used kids never learn because they take responsibility for everything
that happened to them. I'm off the track here, so if you could, I'd like to
hear more.
>
>So, getting back to you *g*, do you think the pdoc might
>have also been hinting at your responsibilities, your choices?
>Are your choices being called into question? Is it time for a
>change?
Oh yes, most definitely yes. When I left his office and got into my car to
drive home, I put the tape of my last session with my T in the recorder and was
listening to it for maybe the 6th time. My T has been saying the same things
about responsibility for months. It seems that everyone that I've shared the
problem that I've been having with my bro. have been telling me the same
things. I suddenly "heard" what everyone was saying. There is no question
that it is time for a change. I feel strongly about it. Frankly, I'm amazed
that I do. I rarely feel strongly about -anything-.
>
>Thanks, Nahanton. I hope to feel better soon too. The
>other day when I saw my physician's referral-backup
>for the second time and while she stood there struggling
>to figure out what to script next that I'm not allergic to,
>that might work, that is covered by insurance and while
>trying not to admit me inpatient and fastly running out of
>options, etc ... I said to her, "If you're struggling with how
>to get me a med without admitting me, I'll gladly take an
>IV bottle to go and come in for refills." *giggling*
Let's hope that it doesn't come to that!!!......unless, of course, you can find
an IV bottle and stand to compliment whatever outfit you're wearing that day!
lol :O)
>
>Well, gotta go. Keep posting and I'll keep reading and
>responding as I'm able. Fwiw, I think you're doing great.
>Hang in there, Nahanton. *breathe deep*
Thanks, SofT. I have a friend in the ng who tells me to "breathe through your
feet." When she first told me this, I thought it very funny. It's become sort
of a mantra for me now. When things are bad or anxiety provoking, I say to
myself, "breathe through your feet." So, I give you this. Maybe it'll help
you as it's helped me. :O)
Nahanton
trill
your life, 14.
You oughta know that even places that don't allow dogs are forced by law
to accept "service" dogs. In today's culture you can get a dog designated
as a service dog for help with mental health issues. By doing this, I was
permitted to have my dog visit me when I was in the hsptl. Also, several
social and case workers as well as lawyers have told me about this regarding
housing. They all said the same thing: Get the housing, then let the
management know that you are in need of a service dog. Especially Section 8
housing is susceptible to this loophole. What I'm saying is, with the right
documentation from the right professionals, you should be able to get
yourself a dog. I know of one guy with bi-polar stuff who got to bring a
puppy whom he was training to work with him because the puppy was designated
a service dog. So, try looking into that.
and good luck with everything else.
later and soon,
trill
Itchy <iam1...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:a94me9$c1c3$1...@ID-63887.news.dfncis.de...
Itchy
the county I was living in to the county I am now living in. I sure could
us a warm fuzzy with good eye contact.
14
"trill" <tri...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:3cb8a50d$0$305$45be...@newscene.com...
trill
> Thanks trill,
de nada
> I'll look into it as soon as my case has been transferred from
> the county I was living in to the county I am now living in.
whoa. you had to change counties? enuf is enuf.
> I sure could
> us a warm fuzzy with good eye contact.
one of the butchiest women I know has an adorable p*meranian named Zooey.
She weighs 3 lbs. my friend carries Zooey around with her everywhere she
goes in a doggy bag. I used to carry The Potato around like that, when she
was a puppy. You can get the bags at any pet supply place. They are soft
sided and have mesh panels. They carry dogs up to 25 lbs. They've got
shoulder straps. with such bags, commonly mistaken for gym bags or coolers,
my friend (and I, in the past) got our dogs into every place we went --
restaurants, movies, public transit, etc. This might be of some use to you,
in the future.
Sorry, but i already gave my bag to my friend with a 9 lb. miniature
d*chsund, long haired, coloring of a d*berman pnchr, named by my friend's 11
yr. old son as Dobywankenoby. Cute, huh?
Another suggestion: around here there are organizations for sick
people, started with people living with hiv and aids, that take care of the
dogs for the sick people through volunteer services. if there is anything
like that in your area you could become a volunteer. that way you could
hang out with dogs and develop close relationships with them without owning
one before one moves in with you. Also, I know people who earn money on the
sly by walking dogs for "working" people.
>
> 14
Keep us posted on your progress.
trill