work for jill
astri
we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over a
year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time. we
usually do it at least 4 or 5 times a week, unless we're sick. the
only way we can fit this into our schedule is to do it in the morning
after coffee before shower. that means that during the work week, we
can only afford about a half hour to 45 minutes total. we don't use
equipment (except the bike). we don't want to use lots of stuff.
these are our reasons for exercise:
~ to increase metabolism for weight control
~ to improve energy
~ to maintain flexibility
~ to keep pains at bay.
~ to minimize lower leg swelling
it's actually been working quite well enough for the first three
reasons, but we're barely holding on the fourth reason, so maybe we can
do something better. the pains we are talking about are lower back/
hip issues. it's prolly sciatica. it's more on the right than the
left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really bad.
when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some times that we
couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt for that and many
of the exercises we are doing started with the recommendations of the
pt, but have morphed since then. we still have a really hard time
sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit indian style.
ankles and legs swell (especially the left side) mostly because the
venous return from legs is compromised by a 360 degree scar around our
hips and torso because of skin reduction surgery after we lost lots and
lots of weight. still swell every day by the end of the day but is
definitely better when we exercise.
ok. so this is what we do. you tell us if there is something that
isn't too different and won't take any more time that we can do
differently. btw, the lying down and sitting exercises are on our bed,
not the floor, because even a mat is too hard and we have wood floors.
besides, we don't have much room on the floor in the bedroom where we
do our exercises. we typically do 10 reps of everything, so we won't
mention how many times we do something unless it's different.
we lie down and put feet flat on bed and lift butt so body is straight
from shoulders to knees (lift and hold a little and do that 10 times).
when we do that, sometimes feet are flat and sometimes heels are lifted
a little. not sure which is best. maybe feet flat. then we lift one
leg 90 degrees and rotate the ankle in one direction and then the
other. then we do leg lifts (slow and not quite touching the surface
at the lowest point) across the body then to the same side then
straight down. then we do all that with the other leg. then we do 20
scissors with both legs together with back flat on bed. then we
stretch inside legs by separating legs to sides as far as they will go
and holding for 10 (maybe slight bouncing but mostly holding). then we
curl up legs and do 100 stomach crunches with arms just hanging out
useless out of the way.
then we sit up and bend one leg into crotch and extend other leg. we
touch nose to bent knee and hold for 10. then we hold outside of foot
on straight leg with both hands and touch forehead to knee and hold for
10. then we do that with other legs. then we make butterfly with feet
together and pull in as much as can and hold for 10. then we get on
hands and knees and arch and hump back 10 times. then we put feet on
floor and do modified pushup (can't do real pushup -- have old rotator
cuff injury on right side and when we first started exercising and
tried pushup on knees, we pulled a muscle in upper left arm that took
about a year to fully heal). we make triangle with body and edge of
bed. we stretch hamstring on one leg (tuck other foot behind that
ankle so we're only on one leg) and suspend body at edge of bed almost
touching chin or forehead to bed holding self up by arms at side (push
up position?) and hold for 10. then we do again stretching other
hamstring. then we stand up and touch floor behind heels and hold for
10. then we clap in front and behind to maintain arm flexibility.
then we do a hill program on a recumbent bike. we're stuck at level 16
(of 20). we set it to the 30 minute program (which does warm up and
then 2 sets of 3 hills with flat between the sets and then cool down).
when we don't have time, we only do the program through the first set
pf hills and use the flat between as cooldown. the shorter time is 19
minutes. we end up at about 190 calories burned for the shorter time
and about 300 calories burned for the full 30 minute program.
that's our exercise program. what can we do better without taking more
time? the "floor" exercises take us about 10 minutes. we still get
lower back pains (even if we don't get to the point we can't move), and
we have a really hard time when we've been sitting on the floor (the
little one sits on the floor in tpy).
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
jill
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>
>we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over a
>year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time. we
Most exercise programs should be done in such a way that any given
muscle group gets 48 hours rest between workouts. Resistance workouts
that is. So, if you are going to do abs on monday you shouldn't do
them on Tues as a general rule. The recovery phase is very important!
Oh, and btw, even without seeing your form I'd bet you aren't doing
crunches properly. Something like 90% of all people do them wrong and
are wasting their time. Start by laying on the 'floor' on your back.
Put your hand flat on your stomach just below your bellybutton. Suck
in your bellybutton to try to get it to touch your spine. Now, think
of doing this from the bottom up. You want to draw the muscle in low
down and _then_ up high, not all of it at once. You also have to
notice if your back is flat on the mat or has an arch or what. You
should ideally have your hand parallel to the floor and about one
hand width from the floor to your back. That is the optimal position
for a crunch. Then when you sit up you should work at contracting just
those muscles in just that manner. It's not as easy as most people
think! :)
>usually do it at least 4 or 5 times a week, unless we're sick. the
>only way we can fit this into our schedule is to do it in the morning
>after coffee before shower. that means that during the work week, we
>can only afford about a half hour to 45 minutes total. we don't use
>equipment (except the bike). we don't want to use lots of stuff.
This might explain your problem in a nutshell. You are _way_ past the
phase you describe. That is for beginners and people with serious
problems. You need to challenge yourself more in ways that either
support your daily functional movements or strengthen weaknesses
caused by your daily functional movements. Your regimen does neither
for the most part.
>these are our reasons for exercise:
>~ to increase metabolism for weight control
Metabolism is increased by increasing your VO2 max and/or by
increasing the amount of lean muscle in your body (lean is more
efficient)
>~ to improve energy
>~ to maintain flexibility
>~ to keep pains at bay.
>~ to minimize lower leg swelling
>
>it's actually been working quite well enough for the first three
>reasons, but we're barely holding on the fourth reason, so maybe we can
>do something better. the pains we are talking about are lower back/
>hip issues. it's prolly sciatica. it's more on the right than the
And I'd bet you spend most of your day sitting. Your daily functional
movements are encouraging an imbalance. Your muscles on the back of
your body are stretched and the muscles on the front of your body are
shortened because of this. It is actually really common and there is
an actual name for it that I have forgotten for the moment :)
At some point I will have time to look up some specific exercises to
help fix this that will target exactly where you need the work.
>left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really bad.
>when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some times that we
>couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt for that and many
>of the exercises we are doing started with the recommendations of the
>pt, but have morphed since then. we still have a really hard time
>sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit indian style.
Then _don't_! Rule one is don't do stuff that aggrevates what is out
of balance! Do stuff to strengthen that area and rebalance in ways
that minimizes the aggrevation.
>ankles and legs swell (especially the left side) mostly because the
>venous return from legs is compromised by a 360 degree scar around our
>hips and torso because of skin reduction surgery after we lost lots and
>lots of weight. still swell every day by the end of the day but is
>definitely better when we exercise.
Do you ever wear support hose and does this help?
>ok. so this is what we do. you tell us if there is something that
>isn't too different and won't take any more time that we can do
>differently. btw, the lying down and sitting exercises are on our bed,
>not the floor, because even a mat is too hard and we have wood floors.
There are exercise mats you can get simply and cheaply at places like
gart or other big box exercise places (I've never seen them at places
like target though). They are almost always black and are sort of like
vinyl covered thin mattresses. Part of the problem with using the bed
is that you are putting your back in an unnatural position and that
can aggrevate things. I can't kneel on a floor or yoga mat but I can
kneel on one of the black mats. The mat folds into three so it stores
easily btw. Doing a crunch properly on a bed, for example, is almost
impossible.
>besides, we don't have much room on the floor in the bedroom where we
>do our exercises. we typically do 10 reps of everything, so we won't
>mention how many times we do something unless it's different.
And you have been doing the same things and same reps for a long time
with no significant change? Your body has adapted and whatever benefit
you were getting out of it has plateaued.
>we lie down and put feet flat on bed and lift butt so body is straight
>from shoulders to knees (lift and hold a little and do that 10 times).
>when we do that, sometimes feet are flat and sometimes heels are lifted
>a little. not sure which is best. maybe feet flat. then we lift one
>leg 90 degrees and rotate the ankle in one direction and then the
>other. then we do leg lifts (slow and not quite touching the surface
>at the lowest point) across the body then to the same side then
>straight down. then we do all that with the other leg. then we do 20
>scissors with both legs together with back flat on bed. then we
>stretch inside legs by separating legs to sides as far as they will go
>and holding for 10 (maybe slight bouncing but mostly holding). then we
>curl up legs and do 100 stomach crunches with arms just hanging out
>useless out of the way.
>
>then we sit up and bend one leg into crotch and extend other leg. we
>touch nose to bent knee and hold for 10. then we hold outside of foot
>on straight leg with both hands and touch forehead to knee and hold for
>10. then we do that with other legs. then we make butterfly with feet
>together and pull in as much as can and hold for 10. then we get on
>hands and knees and arch and hump back 10 times. then we put feet on
>floor and do modified pushup (can't do real pushup -- have old rotator
>cuff injury on right side and when we first started exercising and
>tried pushup on knees, we pulled a muscle in upper left arm that took
If you take my suggestion (below) and get resistance bands you will
need to find ways to work that will take it easy on this part of your
body _or_ you need to get some freeweights (probly 2lb) and do
something called 'L' flyes to fix the rotator cuff problems before
getting into serious resistance band work.
>about a year to fully heal). we make triangle with body and edge of
>bed. we stretch hamstring on one leg (tuck other foot behind that
>ankle so we're only on one leg) and suspend body at edge of bed almost
>touching chin or forehead to bed holding self up by arms at side (push
>up position?) and hold for 10. then we do again stretching other
>hamstring. then we stand up and touch floor behind heels and hold for
>10. then we clap in front and behind to maintain arm flexibility.
All of these are very basic and good flexibility stretches but nothing
that is going to improve lean muscle mass or take you to the next
level. Especially as nothing you are doing is targeting muscles you
use/over use every day while sitting.
>then we do a hill program on a recumbent bike. we're stuck at level 16
>(of 20). we set it to the 30 minute program (which does warm up and
>then 2 sets of 3 hills with flat between the sets and then cool down).
>when we don't have time, we only do the program through the first set
>pf hills and use the flat between as cooldown. the shorter time is 19
>minutes. we end up at about 190 calories burned for the shorter time
>and about 300 calories burned for the full 30 minute program.
Yep, also sounds like a plateau on this. The bike is great but you are
doing a sitting hill program and probly have been for too long. You
have to challenge your cardio system by mixing it up. Like, do that
program on Mondays but do sprint intervals on Wed (do something
totally different on Tues for cardio, even just ten minutes of walking
up and down a set of stairs slowly would be different enough). Sprint
intervals in this case would be to do something very fast on the bike
for x number of minutes, then go slowly for y number of minutes, then
do something just a bit faster than x and then do y and so on. Most
often it looks like a pyramid with 2 min, 1 min cool down, 3 min, 1
min cool down,4 min, 1 min cool down, 3 min, 1 min, 2 min, 1 min.
Or whatever fits into your time frame _and_ is something you can
do. Similar to what you already do but pushing harder right in the
middle of the entire time.
Your body is just ready for more of a challenge!
>that's our exercise program. what can we do better without taking more
>time? the "floor" exercises take us about 10 minutes. we still get
This is what made me realize you are probly doing crunches wrong. I
would bet it is impossible to do 100 crunches _properly_ in less than
5 minutes. Not sure but I'd be willing to bet.
>lower back pains (even if we don't get to the point we can't move), and
>we have a really hard time when we've been sitting on the floor (the
>little one sits on the floor in tpy).
>
>-- astri
I am going to strongly suggest resistance bands. They look like jump
ropes. You can get cheap ones at target. You can do almost everything
you are doing now but just use them with the moves. That will add a
level of resistence that will force your body to develop more lean
muscle mass. Of course you will start with the light band, do that for
some months, go to the medium, etc. Eventually these will be too easy
and you will need something else but that might be in six to nine
months. Ideally I would also suggest a fit ball (one of those big
beach ball looking things) because part of what you need to work on
is your core. The basic trunk muscles of your body are underused
because of the sitting you do, as well as being out of balance for
whatever reason. By tightening and strengthening these muscles (pelvic
floor, chest, back, abs) in a balanced overall way you will help put
your whole body back in balance which will help many of your aches and
pains. If you do get a ball just do the resistance band workout while
sitting on it (or laying on it). Both the ball and the bands will come
with directions and ideas to try fwiw.
And really what you need most of all at first is to just get moving.
You are doing very repetitive exercises and have been for too long.
You need to mix things up to sort of confuse your body :) Take a
walk instead of using the bike. Go swimming. Get a yoga video. Take
a something or other class. You clearly have the motivation and the
goals in place. Those are the hardest for most people to establish.
The rest is easy. Just find lots of variety to do in your time frame
_or_ (ideally) change a few things in your life to make more time in
others areas to do more. One off the cuff sort of idea, take a mom
and kid tai chi class :) Tai chi would really help many of your
problems and doing it with sir lala would help with being with him
and being active. Oh, and one more thought. Sand walking is really
good for some of the problems you describe. You do know where there is
some sand you can walk on right? *grin* Barefoot is best and a decent
pace, not poking along looking for crabs.
Rainbow Colors (Jill, insert standard disclaimer here 'I am not a
personal trainer, I just play one on tv' :)
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
ji...@tuells.org
astri
> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>>
>> we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over a
>> year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time. we
>
> Most exercise programs should be done in such a way that any given
> muscle group gets 48 hours rest between workouts. Resistance workouts
> that is. So, if you are going to do abs on monday you shouldn't do
> them on Tues as a general rule. The recovery phase is very important!
> Oh, and btw, even without seeing your form I'd bet you aren't doing
> crunches properly. Something like 90% of all people do them wrong and
> are wasting their time. Start by laying on the 'floor' on your back.
> Put your hand flat on your stomach just below your bellybutton. Suck
> in your bellybutton to try to get it to touch your spine. Now, think
> of doing this from the bottom up. You want to draw the muscle in low
> down and _then_ up high, not all of it at once. You also have to
> notice if your back is flat on the mat or has an arch or what. You
> should ideally have your hand parallel to the floor and about one
> hand width from the floor to your back. That is the optimal position
> for a crunch. Then when you sit up you should work at contracting
> just those muscles in just that manner. It's not as easy as most
> people think! :)
heh
will have to check that
>> usually do it at least 4 or 5 times a week, unless we're sick. the
>> only way we can fit this into our schedule is to do it in the
>> morning after coffee before shower. that means that during the work
>> week, we can only afford about a half hour to 45 minutes total. we
>> don't use equipment (except the bike). we don't want to use lots of
>> stuff.
>
> This might explain your problem in a nutshell. You are _way_ past the
> phase you describe. That is for beginners and people with serious
> problems. You need to challenge yourself more in ways that either
> support your daily functional movements or strengthen weaknesses
> caused by your daily functional movements. Your regimen does neither
> for the most part.
ack
>> these are our reasons for exercise:
>> ~ to increase metabolism for weight control
>
> Metabolism is increased by increasing your VO2 max and/or by
> increasing the amount of lean muscle in your body (lean is more
> efficient)
we know this
>> ~ to improve energy
>> ~ to maintain flexibility
>> ~ to keep pains at bay.
>> ~ to minimize lower leg swelling
>>
>> it's actually been working quite well enough for the first three
>> reasons, but we're barely holding on the fourth reason, so maybe we
>> can do something better. the pains we are talking about are lower
>> back/ hip issues. it's prolly sciatica. it's more on the right
>> than the
>
> And I'd bet you spend most of your day sitting. Your daily functional
> movements are encouraging an imbalance. Your muscles on the back of
> your body are stretched and the muscles on the front of your body are
> shortened because of this. It is actually really common and there is
> an actual name for it that I have forgotten for the moment :) At some
> point I will have time to look up some specific exercises to help fix
> this that will target exactly where you need the work.
actually, we move around a lot during the day. some days we spend
sitting, but lots of other times we are wandering or playing with kids
or other stuff.
>> left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really
>> bad. when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some times
>> that we couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt for that
>> and many of the exercises we are doing started with the
>> recommendations of the pt, but have morphed since then. we still
>> have a really hard time sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit
>> indian style.
>
> Then _don't_! Rule one is don't do stuff that aggrevates what is out
> of balance! Do stuff to strengthen that area and rebalance in ways
> that minimizes the aggrevation.
problem is that the little one doesn't know not to sit on the floor :P
>> ankles and legs swell (especially the left side) mostly because the
>> venous return from legs is compromised by a 360 degree scar around
>> our hips and torso because of skin reduction surgery after we lost
>> lots and lots of weight. still swell every day by the end of the
>> day but is definitely better when we exercise.
>
> Do you ever wear support hose and does this help?
ack! nononono
can't wear those things
nononnonono
nuh uh!!!!
>> ok. so this is what we do. you tell us if there is something that
>> isn't too different and won't take any more time that we can do
>> differently. btw, the lying down and sitting exercises are on our
>> bed, not the floor, because even a mat is too hard and we have wood
>> floors.
>
> There are exercise mats you can get simply and cheaply at places like
> gart or other big box exercise places (I've never seen them at places
> like target though). They are almost always black and are sort of
> like vinyl covered thin mattresses. Part of the problem with using
> the bed is that you are putting your back in an unnatural position
> and that can aggrevate things. I can't kneel on a floor or yoga mat
> but I can kneel on one of the black mats. The mat folds into three so
> it stores easily btw. Doing a crunch properly on a bed, for example,
> is almost impossible.
:P
try mats. sir lala has those puzzle mats in his room and those are
still hard. can try again.
>> besides, we don't have much room on the floor in the bedroom where
>> we do our exercises. we typically do 10 reps of everything, so we
>> won't mention how many times we do something unless it's different.
>
> And you have been doing the same things and same reps for a long time
> with no significant change? Your body has adapted and whatever benefit
> you were getting out of it has plateaued.
actually, not exactly same. and we still feeling the muscles.
ok, but need the flexibility stuff for maintenance
>> then we do a hill program on a recumbent bike. we're stuck at level
>> 16 (of 20). we set it to the 30 minute program (which does warm up
>> and then 2 sets of 3 hills with flat between the sets and then cool
>> down). when we don't have time, we only do the program through the
>> first set pf hills and use the flat between as cooldown. the
>> shorter time is 19 minutes. we end up at about 190 calories burned
>> for the shorter time and about 300 calories burned for the full 30
>> minute program.
>
> Yep, also sounds like a plateau on this. The bike is great but you
> are doing a sitting hill program and probly have been for too long.
> You have to challenge your cardio system by mixing it up. Like, do
> that program on Mondays but do sprint intervals on Wed (do something
> totally different on Tues for cardio, even just ten minutes of
> walking up and down a set of stairs slowly would be different
> enough). Sprint intervals in this case would be to do something very
> fast on the bike for x number of minutes, then go slowly for y number
> of minutes, then do something just a bit faster than x and then do y
> and so on. Most often it looks like a pyramid with 2 min, 1 min cool
> down, 3 min, 1 min cool down,4 min, 1 min cool down, 3 min, 1 min, 2
> min, 1 min. Or whatever fits into your time frame _and_ is something
> you can do. Similar to what you already do but pushing harder right
> in the middle of the entire time.
>
> Your body is just ready for more of a challenge!
ok
>> that's our exercise program. what can we do better without taking
>> more time? the "floor" exercises take us about 10 minutes. we
>> still get
>
> This is what made me realize you are probly doing crunches wrong. I
> would bet it is impossible to do 100 crunches _properly_ in less than
> 5 minutes. Not sure but I'd be willing to bet.
heh
>> lower back pains (even if we don't get to the point we can't move),
>> and we have a really hard time when we've been sitting on the floor
>> (the little one sits on the floor in tpy).
>
no sand
can't stand sand
> Rainbow Colors (Jill, insert standard disclaimer here 'I am not a
> personal trainer, I just play one on tv' :)
ok
ty
astri
>>>
>>> it's actually been working quite well enough for the first three
>>> reasons, but we're barely holding on the fourth reason, so maybe we
>>> can do something better. the pains we are talking about are lower
>>> back/ hip issues. it's prolly sciatica. it's more on the right
>>> than the
>
> diagnosis but a lay description of a certain kind of pain pattern.)
> the sciatic nerve runs past and sometimes through the piriformis
> muscle, which is deep inside the hip and is one of the muscles
> responsible for rotating your leg outward. when the piriformis is very
> tight, it can put pressure on the sciatic nerve.
ooooo
a 2-in-1 consultation :)
> does your massage therapist know about this, and does she work on
> your piriformis?
go to a shiatsu practitioner irregularly. we tell her about what
bothers when we need to. dunno if she works on piriformis but does do
lower back, hip area.
>>> left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really
>>> bad. when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some times
>>> that we couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt for
>>> that and many of the exercises we are doing started with the
>>> recommendations of the pt, but have morphed since then. we still
>>> have a really hard time sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit
>>> indian style.
>
> that could also have to do with tight external hip rotator muscles.
ok
>>> then we sit up and bend one leg into crotch and extend other leg.
>>> we touch nose to bent knee and hold for 10. then we hold outside
>>> of foot on straight leg with both hands and touch forehead to knee
>>> and hold for 10. then we do that with other legs. then we make
>>> butterfly with feet together and pull in as much as can and hold
>>> for 10. then we get on hands and knees and arch and hump back 10
>>> times. then we put feet on floor and do modified pushup (can't do
>>> real pushup
>
> aw, those are real pushups too.
heh :P
>>> that's our exercise program. what can we do better without taking
>>> more time? the "floor" exercises take us about 10 minutes. we
>>> still get
>>
>> This is what made me realize you are probly doing crunches wrong. I
>> would bet it is impossible to do 100 crunches _properly_ in less than
>> 5 minutes. Not sure but I'd be willing to bet.
>
> the american college of sports medicine protocol for abdominal
> strength/endurance fitness is 25 crunches per minute.
that's 4 minutes
>>> lower back pains (even if we don't get to the point we can't move),
>>> and we have a really hard time when we've been sitting on the floor
>>> (the little one sits on the floor in tpy).
>
> are you doing straight leg lifts? those are really bad for your back.
humph
that's what the pt told us to do
:P
> not that you asked me....
>
> tv
unsolicited replies from you always welcome
astri
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:27:15 -1000, astri <as...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008, the valerians wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> it's actually been working quite well enough for the first three
>>>>> reasons, but we're barely holding on the fourth reason, so maybe
>>>>> we can do something better. the pains we are talking about are
>>>>> lower back/ hip issues. it's prolly sciatica. it's more on the
>>>>> right than the
>>>
>>> it might be piriformis syndrome. (sciatica isn't actually a medical
>>> diagnosis but a lay description of a certain kind of pain pattern.)
>>> the sciatic nerve runs past and sometimes through the piriformis
>>> muscle, which is deep inside the hip and is one of the muscles
>>> responsible for rotating your leg outward. when the piriformis is
>>> very tight, it can put pressure on the sciatic nerve.
>>
>> ooooo
>>
>> a 2-in-1 consultation :)
>
yup :)
>>> does your massage therapist know about this, and does she work on
>>> your piriformis?
>>
>> go to a shiatsu practitioner irregularly. we tell her about what
>> bothers when we need to. dunno if she works on piriformis but does
>> do lower back, hip area.
>
> put one finger on your tailbone and the other on your hip joint. draw
> an imaginary line between the two points. if she's working deeply at
> the center of that line, she's working on your piriformis.
then she prolly does
>>>>> left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really
>>>>> bad. when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some
>>>>> times that we couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt
>>>>> for that and many of the exercises we are doing started with the
>>>>> recommendations of the pt, but have morphed since then. we still
>>>>> have a really hard time sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit
>>>>> indian style.
>>>
>>> that could also have to do with tight external hip rotator muscles.
>>
>> ok
so what do we do for them?
>>>>> then we sit up and bend one leg into crotch and extend other leg.
>>>>> we touch nose to bent knee and hold for 10. then we hold outside
>>>>> of foot on straight leg with both hands and touch forehead to
>>>>> knee and hold for 10. then we do that with other legs. then we
>>>>> make butterfly with feet together and pull in as much as can and
>>>>> hold for 10. then we get on hands and knees and arch and hump
>>>>> back 10 times. then we put feet on floor and do modified pushup
>>>>> (can't do real pushup
>>>
>>> aw, those are real pushups too.
>>
>> heh :P
>
> they are! i do that kind too, and that's the kind the acsm uses to
> assess upper body strength in women.
ok
>>>>> that's our exercise program. what can we do better without
>>>>> taking more time? the "floor" exercises take us about 10
>>>>> minutes. we still get
>>>>
>>>> This is what made me realize you are probly doing crunches wrong.
>>>> I would bet it is impossible to do 100 crunches _properly_ in less
>>>> than 5 minutes. Not sure but I'd be willing to bet.
>>>
>>> the american college of sports medicine protocol for abdominal
>>> strength/endurance fitness is 25 crunches per minute.
>>
>> that's 4 minutes
>
> yep. i should explain the rest of that, though. being able to perform
> 25 crunches in one minute is the standard for excellence. if you can
> do 19-24 in one minute, you're in the "very good" category. 11-18 is
> "good," and 4-10 is "fair." (these numbers depend on your age, btw.
> you're in your 40s, right?)
body is. we're not. :/
will have to get floor mat and figure out how to do crunches properly
and then see how we do
>>>>> lower back pains (even if we don't get to the point we can't
>>>>> move), and we have a really hard time when we've been sitting on
>>>>> the floor (the little one sits on the floor in tpy).
>>>
>>> are you doing straight leg lifts? those are really bad for your
>>> back.
>>
>> humph
>>
>> that's what the pt told us to do
>> :P
>
> a pox on your pt then. there are several problems with straight leg
> lifts. not only do they stress your back, but they work the hip
> flexors more than the abs. that's unnecessary for most people,
> because the hip flexors get plenty of use during the course of normal
> human activity, e.g., walking and sitting. most of us need to
> stretch, not strengthen, the hip flexors.
so what should we do?
>>> not that you asked me....
>>>
>>> tv
>>
>> unsolicited replies from you always welcome
>
> ok. thanks.
>
> tv
no. thank *you*
(heh)
astri
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>>>
>>> we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over a
>>> year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time. we
>>
>> Most exercise programs should be done in such a way that any given
>> muscle group gets 48 hours rest between workouts. Resistance workouts
>> that is. So, if you are going to do abs on monday you shouldn't do
>> them on Tues as a general rule. The recovery phase is very important!
sigh
gonna be hard for a creature of habit. maybe can develop two alternate
routines and then take turns.
>> Oh, and btw, even without seeing your form I'd bet you aren't doing
>> crunches properly. Something like 90% of all people do them wrong
>> and are wasting their time. Start by laying on the 'floor' on your
>> back. Put your hand flat on your stomach just below your
>> bellybutton. Suck in your bellybutton to try to get it to touch your
>> spine. Now, think of doing this from the bottom up. You want to draw
>> the muscle in low down and _then_ up high, not all of it at once.
>> You also have to notice if your back is flat on the mat or has an
>> arch or what. You should ideally have your hand parallel to the
>> floor and about one hand width from the floor to your back. That is
>> the optimal position for a crunch. Then when you sit up you should
>> work at contracting just those muscles in just that manner. It's not
>> as easy as most people think! :)
>
> heh
>
> will have to check that
when we can get to the store, going to look for a mat to buy.
actually do have hands out to sides most of the time. will work on the
form.
but we'd be interested in those exercises.
we don't have a target here :P
but can look for a mat
we're going to look up core exercises and add those. we did look a
little yesterday. the thing we do making body straight between knees
and shoulders was actually on one site. we just need to hold in
abdominal muscles too while we do it.
>>> then we do a hill program on a recumbent bike. we're stuck at
>>> level 16 (of 20). we set it to the 30 minute program (which does
>>> warm up and then 2 sets of 3 hills with flat between the sets and
>>> then cool down). when we don't have time, we only do the program
>>> through the first set pf hills and use the flat between as
>>> cooldown. the shorter time is 19 minutes. we end up at about 190
>>> calories burned for the shorter time and about 300 calories burned
>>> for the full 30 minute program.
>>
>> Yep, also sounds like a plateau on this. The bike is great but you
>> are doing a sitting hill program and probly have been for too long.
>> You have to challenge your cardio system by mixing it up. Like, do
>> that program on Mondays but do sprint intervals on Wed (do something
>> totally different on Tues for cardio, even just ten minutes of
>> walking up and down a set of stairs slowly would be different
>> enough). Sprint intervals in this case would be to do something very
>> fast on the bike for x number of minutes, then go slowly for y
>> number of minutes, then do something just a bit faster than x and
>> then do y and so on. Most often it looks like a pyramid with 2 min,
>> 1 min cool down, 3 min, 1 min cool down,4 min, 1 min cool down, 3
>> min, 1 min, 2 min, 1 min. Or whatever fits into your time frame
>> _and_ is something you can do. Similar to what you already do but
>> pushing harder right in the middle of the entire time.
don't get why the hill program isn't doing exactly this. it is
intervals of intense working interspersed with intervals of easy
working. the intense intervals gradually get more intense during the
workout. the highest intensity is at a point that we have real
difficulty sustaining it for the time period. it's challenging us.
how is this plateauing? we don't understand.
btw, we also do sometimes just walk up the stairs wherever we go rather
than use elevators. we could do that more.
but looking at core exercises to add.
astri
>
>>>>>>> left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it
>>>>>>> really bad. when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get
>>>>>>> some times that we couldn't step up with the right leg. we
>>>>>>> went to pt for that and many of the exercises we are doing
>>>>>>> started with the recommendations of the pt, but have morphed
>>>>>>> since then. we still have a really hard time sitting on the
>>>>>>> floor, and can *not* sit indian style.
>>>>>
>>>>> that could also have to do with tight external hip rotator
>>>>> muscles.
>>>>
>>>> ok
>>
>> so what do we do for them?
>
> leg straight out in front of you. bend your right leg and place your
> right foot on the bed beside your left knee on the outside, and pull
> your right knee over to the left as far as you can. "as far as you
> can" means until you feel the stretch in your right hip. hold for 3-5
> slow breaths and repeat 2-4 times. then do the other side.
can do this
> if you mentioned how many days a week you stretch, then i missed it.
> you should stretch at least five days a week.
ok
> understood. we have the same problem.
>
>> will have to get floor mat and figure out how to do crunches
>> properly and then see how we do
>>
>>>>>>> lower back pains (even if we don't get to the point we can't
>>>>>>> move), and we have a really hard time when we've been sitting on
>>>>>>> the floor (the little one sits on the floor in tpy).
>>>>>
>>>>> are you doing straight leg lifts? those are really bad for your
>>>>> back.
>>>>
>>>> humph
>>>>
>>>> that's what the pt told us to do
>>>> :P
>>>
>>> a pox on your pt then. there are several problems with straight leg
>>> lifts. not only do they stress your back, but they work the hip
>>> flexors more than the abs. that's unnecessary for most people,
>>> because the hip flexors get plenty of use during the course of
>>> normal human activity, e.g., walking and sitting. most of us need
>>> to stretch, not strengthen, the hip flexors.
>>
>> so what should we do?
>
> get in a classic lunge position, then press your hips straight down
> toward the floor. you might want to rest the knee of your extended
> leg on the floor, in which case you'll press more forward than down.
> you'll feel the stretch at the very top of your thigh where it
> creases when you sit down.
got it
>>>>> not that you asked me....
>>>>>
>>>>> tv
>>>>
>>>> unsolicited replies from you always welcome
>>>
>>> ok. thanks.
>>>
>>> tv
>>
>> no. thank *you*
>> (heh)
>
> ok, i give. you're welcome :-).
>
> tv
*pout*
you didn't want to play :(
we coulda done that all day!
Puddles
wow, very impressive post. someone *really* knows there stuff.
jill
In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>>>
>>> we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over a
>>> year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time. we
>>
>> And I'd bet you spend most of your day sitting. Your daily functional
>> movements are encouraging an imbalance. Your muscles on the back of
>> your body are stretched and the muscles on the front of your body are
>> shortened because of this. It is actually really common and there is
>> an actual name for it that I have forgotten for the moment :) At some
>> point I will have time to look up some specific exercises to help fix
>> this that will target exactly where you need the work.
>
>actually, we move around a lot during the day. some days we spend
>sitting, but lots of other times we are wandering or playing with kids
>or other stuff.
Ok, I phrased that badly. I bet your life overall is fairly sedentary
in that you aren't lifting heavy things, getting your heart beat up,
moving and flexing and stretching as a matter of course. Your moving
around is probly at a sedate pace and the wandering and playing is
not playing kickball but checkers.
>>> left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really
>>> bad. when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some times
>>> that we couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt for that
>>> and many of the exercises we are doing started with the
>>> recommendations of the pt, but have morphed since then. we still
>>> have a really hard time sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit
>>> indian style.
>>
>> Then _don't_! Rule one is don't do stuff that aggrevates what is out
>> of balance! Do stuff to strengthen that area and rebalance in ways
>> that minimizes the aggrevation.
>
>problem is that the little one doesn't know not to sit on the floor :P
And until you can talk to her better you can't teach her :( So
teaching the body when you are in charge might help it figure out what
to do when she is...
>>> ankles and legs swell (especially the left side) mostly because the
>>> venous return from legs is compromised by a 360 degree scar around
>>> our hips and torso because of skin reduction surgery after we lost
>>> lots and lots of weight. still swell every day by the end of the
>>> day but is definitely better when we exercise.
>>
>> Do you ever wear support hose and does this help?
>
>ack! nononono
>can't wear those things
>nononnonono
>nuh uh!!!!
Ok... never mind then! *silly smile*
>>> ok. so this is what we do. you tell us if there is something that
>>> isn't too different and won't take any more time that we can do
>>> differently. btw, the lying down and sitting exercises are on our
>>> bed, not the floor, because even a mat is too hard and we have wood
>>> floors.
>>
>> There are exercise mats you can get simply and cheaply at places like
>> gart or other big box exercise places (I've never seen them at places
>> like target though). They are almost always black and are sort of
>> like vinyl covered thin mattresses. Part of the problem with using
>> the bed is that you are putting your back in an unnatural position
>> and that can aggrevate things. I can't kneel on a floor or yoga mat
>> but I can kneel on one of the black mats. The mat folds into three so
>> it stores easily btw. Doing a crunch properly on a bed, for example,
>> is almost impossible.
>
>:P
>
>try mats. sir lala has those puzzle mats in his room and those are
>still hard. can try again.
Those are too hard. We have those too. What I'm talking about is
called a 'tri-fold mat' and is just a bit squishier.
>>> besides, we don't have much room on the floor in the bedroom where
>>> we do our exercises. we typically do 10 reps of everything, so we
>>> won't mention how many times we do something unless it's different.
>>
>> And you have been doing the same things and same reps for a long time
>> with no significant change? Your body has adapted and whatever benefit
>> you were getting out of it has plateaued.
>
>actually, not exactly same. and we still feeling the muscles.
True, but... you are doing the same old same old for too long. Your
muscles are getting used to it and settling in.
>> All of these are very basic and good flexibility stretches but
>> nothing that is going to improve lean muscle mass or take you to the
>> next level. Especially as nothing you are doing is targeting muscles
>> you use/over use every day while sitting.
>
>ok, but need the flexibility stuff for maintenance
Definitely! Never take away what you have, just add to it. Or
make what you have more challenging.
>no sand
>can't stand sand
And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on the
sand in socks? :)
Rainbow Colors (Jill, insert standard disclaimer here 'I am not a
personal trainer, I just play one on tv' :)
--
jill
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, astri wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>>>>
>>>> we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over a
>>>> year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time. we
>>>
>>> Most exercise programs should be done in such a way that any given
>>> muscle group gets 48 hours rest between workouts. Resistance workouts
>>> that is. So, if you are going to do abs on monday you shouldn't do
>>> them on Tues as a general rule. The recovery phase is very important!
>
>sigh
>
>gonna be hard for a creature of habit. maybe can develop two alternate
>routines and then take turns.
That is a very good idea! Especially if you can get up to three
routines. That would be very good!
>but we'd be interested in those exercises.
I'll see what I can find. Give me a week and then email me a reminder.
>>> There are exercise mats you can get simply and cheaply at places
>>> like gart or other big box exercise places (I've never seen them at
>>> places like target though). They are almost always black and are
>>> sort of like vinyl covered thin mattresses. Part of the problem with
>
>we don't have a target here :P
>but can look for a mat
I've seen them at Dicks, Garts, and someplace else that escapes me.
Probly can get them online too...
>don't get why the hill program isn't doing exactly this. it is
>intervals of intense working interspersed with intervals of easy
>working. the intense intervals gradually get more intense during the
>workout. the highest intensity is at a point that we have real
>difficulty sustaining it for the time period. it's challenging us.
>how is this plateauing? we don't understand.
Oh, ok. You explained it differently. I didn't realize the hills
changed. I thought they were all the same. Yes, this is the same so
then the only reason for a plateau is that you are doing the same
thing over and over. Bodies fall into repetitive stuff too easily.
You have to mix it up.
>btw, we also do sometimes just walk up the stairs wherever we go rather
>than use elevators. we could do that more.
That would be an excellent example of mixing it up!! And sometimes you
could 'run' (ie walk fast) up the stairs. That's a third 'mix it
upness'
>but looking at core exercises to add.
Good. It's hard if you don't have any resistance to add to them
because core muscles are already very strong and big. They need to
be worked out harder (more intensely) to get results.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
astri
ok. not playing checkers. sometimes running after preschoolers and
rolling around on the floor with them, tho.
>>>> left. when we exercise regularly, we don't usually get it really
>>>> bad. when we weren't exercising regularly, we would get some times
>>>> that we couldn't step up with the right leg. we went to pt for
>>>> that and many of the exercises we are doing started with the
>>>> recommendations of the pt, but have morphed since then. we still
>>>> have a really hard time sitting on the floor, and can *not* sit
>>>> indian style.
>>>
>>> Then _don't_! Rule one is don't do stuff that aggrevates what is
>>> out of balance! Do stuff to strengthen that area and rebalance in
>>> ways that minimizes the aggrevation.
>>
>> problem is that the little one doesn't know not to sit on the floor
>> :P
>
> And until you can talk to her better you can't teach her :( So
> teaching the body when you are in charge might help it figure out
> what to do when she is...
right. so what do we do to make it easier?
ok
ok
>>>> besides, we don't have much room on the floor in the bedroom where
>>>> we do our exercises. we typically do 10 reps of everything, so we
>>>> won't mention how many times we do something unless it's
>>>> different.
>>>
>>> And you have been doing the same things and same reps for a long
>>> time with no significant change? Your body has adapted and whatever
>>> benefit you were getting out of it has plateaued.
>>
>> actually, not exactly same. and we still feeling the muscles.
>
> True, but... you are doing the same old same old for too long. Your
> muscles are getting used to it and settling in.
oh
>>> All of these are very basic and good flexibility stretches but
>>> nothing that is going to improve lean muscle mass or take you to
>>> the next level. Especially as nothing you are doing is targeting
>>> muscles you use/over use every day while sitting.
>>
>> ok, but need the flexibility stuff for maintenance
>
> Definitely! Never take away what you have, just add to it. Or
> make what you have more challenging.
ok
>> no sand
>> can't stand sand
>
> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on the
> sand in socks? :)
:P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
astri
> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, astri wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>>>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>>>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> we do pretty regular exercise. have been doing so for well over
>>>>> a year. we aim for doing it daily, but don't always have time.
>>>>> we
>>>>
>>>> Most exercise programs should be done in such a way that any given
>>>> muscle group gets 48 hours rest between workouts. Resistance
>>>> workouts that is. So, if you are going to do abs on monday you
>>>> shouldn't do them on Tues as a general rule. The recovery phase is
>>>> very important!
>>
>> sigh
>>
>> gonna be hard for a creature of habit. maybe can develop two
>> alternate routines and then take turns.
>
> That is a very good idea! Especially if you can get up to three
> routines. That would be very good!
start with trying to get around to two
>> but we'd be interested in those exercises.
>
> I'll see what I can find. Give me a week and then email me a
> reminder.
what were they about again?
>>>> There are exercise mats you can get simply and cheaply at places
>>>> like gart or other big box exercise places (I've never seen them
>>>> at places like target though). They are almost always black and
>>>> are sort of like vinyl covered thin mattresses. Part of the
>>>> problem with
>>
>> we don't have a target here :P
>> but can look for a mat
>
> I've seen them at Dicks, Garts, and someplace else that escapes me.
> Probly can get them online too...
don't have any of those places but prolly can find it somewhere
>> don't get why the hill program isn't doing exactly this. it is
>> intervals of intense working interspersed with intervals of easy
>> working. the intense intervals gradually get more intense during
>> the workout. the highest intensity is at a point that we have real
>> difficulty sustaining it for the time period. it's challenging us.
>> how is this plateauing? we don't understand.
>
> Oh, ok. You explained it differently. I didn't realize the hills
> changed. I thought they were all the same. Yes, this is the same so
> then the only reason for a plateau is that you are doing the same
> thing over and over. Bodies fall into repetitive stuff too easily.
> You have to mix it up.
ok
>> btw, we also do sometimes just walk up the stairs wherever we go
>> rather than use elevators. we could do that more.
>
> That would be an excellent example of mixing it up!! And sometimes
> you could 'run' (ie walk fast) up the stairs. That's a third 'mix it
> upness'
ok
and sometimes sir lala likes to take walks. we should take more walks
with him (remember we live in a hilly part).
>> but looking at core exercises to add.
>
> Good. It's hard if you don't have any resistance to add to them
> because core muscles are already very strong and big. They need to
> be worked out harder (more intensely) to get results.
:P
jill
To help with the pain you labeled as possible sciatica.
>> That would be an excellent example of mixing it up!! And sometimes
>> you could 'run' (ie walk fast) up the stairs. That's a third 'mix it
>> upness'
>
>ok
>
>and sometimes sir lala likes to take walks. we should take more walks
>with him (remember we live in a hilly part).
That would be an excellent functional way to add cardio to your life!
And it is fun :)
>>> but looking at core exercises to add.
>>
>> Good. It's hard if you don't have any resistance to add to them
>> because core muscles are already very strong and big. They need to
>> be worked out harder (more intensely) to get results.
>
>:P
>
>-- astri
Hey, you didn't ask me to make this _easy_! I would have laughed
maniacally of course had you asked. :)
jill
:) So then add _more_ of that to your daily life! *grin*
>>> problem is that the little one doesn't know not to sit on the floor
>>> :P
>>
>> And until you can talk to her better you can't teach her :( So
>> teaching the body when you are in charge might help it figure out
>> what to do when she is...
>
>right. so what do we do to make it easier?
If the body is relaxed, flexible and capable of doing stuff when you
are in it, it will be more likely able to do it when she is. So, why
don't you sit cross legged? Is it a true limitation or lack of
practice?
>> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on the
>> sand in socks? :)
>
>:P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>-- astri
Ok, then what about those cool shoe/slipper things that remind me
of mittens that kungfu people sometimes wear?
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
astri
right
>>> That would be an excellent example of mixing it up!! And sometimes
>>> you could 'run' (ie walk fast) up the stairs. That's a third 'mix it
>>> upness'
>>
>> ok
>>
>> and sometimes sir lala likes to take walks. we should take more walks
>> with him (remember we live in a hilly part).
>
> That would be an excellent functional way to add cardio to your life!
> And it is fun :)
>
>>>> but looking at core exercises to add.
>>>
>>> Good. It's hard if you don't have any resistance to add to them
>>> because core muscles are already very strong and big. They need to
>>> be worked out harder (more intensely) to get results.
>>
>> :P
>>
>> -- astri
>
> Hey, you didn't ask me to make this _easy_! I would have laughed
> maniacally of course had you asked. :)
:P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(jello? what jello?)
astri
heh
>>>> problem is that the little one doesn't know not to sit on the floor
>>>> :P
>>>
>>> And until you can talk to her better you can't teach her :( So
>>> teaching the body when you are in charge might help it figure out
>>> what to do when she is...
>>
>> right. so what do we do to make it easier?
>
> If the body is relaxed, flexible and capable of doing stuff when you
> are in it, it will be more likely able to do it when she is. So, why
> don't you sit cross legged? Is it a true limitation or lack of
> practice?
hips and back hurt when we do
>>> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on the
>>> sand in socks? :)
>>
>> :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> -- astri
>
> Ok, then what about those cool shoe/slipper things that remind me
> of mittens that kungfu people sometimes wear?
no :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jill
Hmm, probly (off the cuff thinking) this is from tightness in various
areas. You might just not be designed to sit this way any more either.
The old 'use it or lose it' sort of thing.
To be able to sit cross legged you need to have loser hip adductors
(the inside of your thigh muscles) and stronger hip abductors (outside
of thigh muscles). You also have to have more flexible hips so that
they can 'turn out' easily. Things like tai chi help with this as do
some dance steps. Also massage. Last, as I've said in other posts,
if your front leg/hip/groin muscles are tighter from lots of sitting
and your back leg/hip/groin muscles are stretched from lots of sitting
the whole balance is thrown off and this sort of sitting will be
tough. To work them most efficiently would mean getting resistance
bands for home exercises. Or ankle weights.
>>>> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on the
>>>> sand in socks? :)
>>>
>>> :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> -- astri
>>
>> Ok, then what about those cool shoe/slipper things that remind me
>> of mittens that kungfu people sometimes wear?
>
>no :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>-- astri
I'm getting the impression you aren't planning on walking in the sand.
confused
as sciatica
we also are having lots of troubles with our neck again :/ we think it
would be too hard for you to help us online, don't think we can describe
things well enough. holding the notebook with the choir notebook, which
was somewhat heavy and we had to hold up so we could see forward
bothered our neck we think. that and the fact we spent most of the time
looking to the right because that's where the front of the room was.
when we had the whiplash we got exercises but I'm either doing them
wrong or they don't help. one of them seems to make things worse.
Puddles
ooh, eager to hear the response to this one. we have neck problems too.
jill
Well, in this case astri called it sciatica but what she has probably
isn't, If I understand her properly.
>we also are having lots of troubles with our neck again :/ we think it
>would be too hard for you to help us online, don't think we can describe
>things well enough. holding the notebook with the choir notebook, which
>was somewhat heavy and we had to hold up so we could see forward
>bothered our neck we think. that and the fact we spent most of the time
>looking to the right because that's where the front of the room was.
>when we had the whiplash we got exercises but I'm either doing them
>wrong or they don't help. one of them seems to make things worse.
whiplash enters a whole different set of stuff into the equation. One
basic problem with whiplash is that it can damage or knock out of
balance some of the upper back/shoulder muscles so they either won't
work when needed or try to work when they aren't needed. This causes
an imbalance. Another problem is that it is relatively easy to knock
your spinal alignment out of whack in little ways that aren't major
serious, but end up in the long run being a big problem. Pinched
nerves, numbness, loss of strength, etc. can be results.
I would definitely not be willing to work with you online given your
issues and background! You would need to find an in person person to
train with.
confused
exercises we know help. we just were curious mostly. we wouldn't mind
trying new exercises.
weirdly enough, after the car accident and whiplash, we seemed to have
less problems with the lower back. heh!
>> we also are having lots of troubles with our neck again :/ we think it
>> would be too hard for you to help us online, don't think we can describe
>> things well enough. holding the notebook with the choir notebook, which
>> was somewhat heavy and we had to hold up so we could see forward
>> bothered our neck we think. that and the fact we spent most of the time
>> looking to the right because that's where the front of the room was.
>> when we had the whiplash we got exercises but I'm either doing them
>> wrong or they don't help. one of them seems to make things worse.
>
> whiplash enters a whole different set of stuff into the equation. One
> basic problem with whiplash is that it can damage or knock out of
> balance some of the upper back/shoulder muscles so they either won't
> work when needed or try to work when they aren't needed. This causes
> an imbalance. Another problem is that it is relatively easy to knock
> your spinal alignment out of whack in little ways that aren't major
> serious, but end up in the long run being a big problem. Pinched
> nerves, numbness, loss of strength, etc. can be results.
>
ja, we had to do lots of work in PT. there was a point where it looked
like we weren't going to have a good recovery at all. we did better then
they expected in the end but it still gives us trouble. when we first
got in the accident our neck didn't hurt at all. it was our left
shoulder and umm... the pectoral muscle maybe? (don't think that's right
but it was on our chest).
> I would definitely not be willing to work with you online given your
> issues and background! You would need to find an in person person to
> train with.
>
is ok :) didn't expect you too. maybe just thinking out loud...err... in
type. would like to be able to figure out what, during choir, is
aggravating it so much.
astri
> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>>>>> snippage cause this is long...
>>>>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>>>>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008, jill wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
>>>>>>> astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ok. you offered consultations. here's one. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>> floor :P
>>>>>
>>>>> And until you can talk to her better you can't teach her :( So
>>>>> teaching the body when you are in charge might help it figure out
>>>>> what to do when she is...
>>>>
>>>> right. so what do we do to make it easier?
>>>
>>> If the body is relaxed, flexible and capable of doing stuff when
>>> you are in it, it will be more likely able to do it when she is.
>>> So, why don't you sit cross legged? Is it a true limitation or lack
>>> of practice?
>>
>> hips and back hurt when we do
>
> Hmm, probly (off the cuff thinking) this is from tightness in various
> areas. You might just not be designed to sit this way any more
> either. The old 'use it or lose it' sort of thing.
could be. we're trying to figure out how to work back into being able
to sit on the floor. even when we're not sitting cross-legged (which
we don't usually do, that was just a comment), lower back hurts when we
sit on the floor in whatever position. legs straight out is the
easiest.
> To be able to sit cross legged you need to have loser hip adductors
> (the inside of your thigh muscles) and stronger hip abductors
> (outside of thigh muscles). You also have to have more flexible hips
> so that they can 'turn out' easily. Things like tai chi help with
> this as do some dance steps. Also massage. Last, as I've said in
> other posts, if your front leg/hip/groin muscles are tighter from
> lots of sitting and your back leg/hip/groin muscles are stretched
> from lots of sitting the whole balance is thrown off and this sort of
> sitting will be tough. To work them most efficiently would mean
> getting resistance bands for home exercises. Or ankle weights.
what about the lunges that tv was talking about?
>>>>> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on
>>>>> the sand in socks? :)
>>>>
>>>> :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>> -- astri
>>>
>>> Ok, then what about those cool shoe/slipper things that remind me
>>> of mittens that kungfu people sometimes wear?
>>
>> no :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I'm getting the impression you aren't planning on walking in the
> sand.
really? what gave you that idea?
jill
Ok, that helps know more what is going on. In order to sit on the
floor cross legged you are going to need to get your hips to 'open'
more and be more flexible. This is going to mean working in a more
diagonal way than typical. Lower back hurting when you sit on the
floor is pretty typical for many people. Sitting with your legs
straight out helps organize the body so it makes it easier. Have
you tried 'ring' sitting? Think of a kid with cerebal palsy who
sits on the floor with their legs, soles of feet touching, bent in
front of them. That might be a place to start. Your legs will look
sort of like a ring when you sit this way. If you have to put pillows
under your knees to start do so and then gradually your legs will
loosen more and you will be able to do this for longer times.
>> To be able to sit cross legged you need to have loser hip adductors
>> (the inside of your thigh muscles) and stronger hip abductors
>> (outside of thigh muscles). You also have to have more flexible hips
>> so that they can 'turn out' easily. Things like tai chi help with
>> this as do some dance steps. Also massage. Last, as I've said in
>> other posts, if your front leg/hip/groin muscles are tighter from
>> lots of sitting and your back leg/hip/groin muscles are stretched
>> from lots of sitting the whole balance is thrown off and this sort of
>> sitting will be tough. To work them most efficiently would mean
>> getting resistance bands for home exercises. Or ankle weights.
>
>what about the lunges that tv was talking about?
Probably too aggressive to start with. Lunges need to be done properly
or you can hurt your knees and to fix the problem you are talking
about you have to do diagonal lunges which I would be hesitant to
suggest unless I could show you how to do them safely.
>>>>>> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on
>>>>>> the sand in socks? :)
>>>>>
>>>>> :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>> -- astri
>>>>
>>>> Ok, then what about those cool shoe/slipper things that remind me
>>>> of mittens that kungfu people sometimes wear?
>>>
>>> no :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> I'm getting the impression you aren't planning on walking in the
>> sand.
>
>really? what gave you that idea?
>
>-- astri
:P~~~~~~~
astri
will this ring sitting help with being able to sit straight-legged, or
is it focused on getting to be able to sit cross-legged?
>>> To be able to sit cross legged you need to have loser hip adductors
>>> (the inside of your thigh muscles) and stronger hip abductors
>>> (outside of thigh muscles). You also have to have more flexible
>>> hips so that they can 'turn out' easily. Things like tai chi help
>>> with this as do some dance steps. Also massage. Last, as I've said
>>> in other posts, if your front leg/hip/groin muscles are tighter
>>> from lots of sitting and your back leg/hip/groin muscles are
>>> stretched from lots of sitting the whole balance is thrown off and
>>> this sort of sitting will be tough. To work them most efficiently
>>> would mean getting resistance bands for home exercises. Or ankle
>>> weights.
>>
>> what about the lunges that tv was talking about?
>
> Probably too aggressive to start with. Lunges need to be done
> properly or you can hurt your knees and to fix the problem you are
> talking about you have to do diagonal lunges which I would be
> hesitant to suggest unless I could show you how to do them safely.
hmmm
ok
so now we're confused on where to start, even to start on doing
whatever to make it easier to sit on the floor in *any* position.
>>>>>>> And yet you live in HI. Go figure :) Ok, what about walking on
>>>>>>> the sand in socks? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- astri
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, then what about those cool shoe/slipper things that remind me
>>>>> of mittens that kungfu people sometimes wear?
>>>>
>>>> no :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> I'm getting the impression you aren't planning on walking in the
>>> sand.
>>
>> really? what gave you that idea?
>>
>> -- astri
>
> :P~~~~~~~
heh
astri
> i didn't suggest she do lunges. i was explaining to her how to
> stretch her iliopsoas. it's a static stretch that doesn't stress the
> knees the way active lunges for strengthening do.
>
> tv
could you explain the difference (again?) so we get it better, please?
jill
In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net>,
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> straight out helps organize the body so it makes it easier. Have you
>> tried 'ring' sitting? Think of a kid with cerebal palsy who sits on
>> the floor with their legs, soles of feet touching, bent in front of
>> them. That might be a place to start. Your legs will look sort of
>> like a ring when you sit this way. If you have to put pillows under
>> your knees to start do so and then gradually your legs will loosen
>> more and you will be able to do this for longer times.
>
>will this ring sitting help with being able to sit straight-legged, or
>is it focused on getting to be able to sit cross-legged?
All of the above. It will allow you to relax the muscles/tendons/
ligaments that are too tight right now in a gradual way (hence the
pillows for support right now) so that all of you will be more relaxed
and flexible for whatever sort of sitting you do (floor or chair). It
is a very gentle way to address the problem you have overall with your
front bits tighter than your back bits.
You could also stand/sit in a full back bend for hours at a time to
contradict all the sitting you do too *wicked grin* (no, don't try
that at home! It's a JOKE!!!)
>>>> To be able to sit cross legged you need to have loser hip adductors
>>>> (the inside of your thigh muscles) and stronger hip abductors
>>>> (outside of thigh muscles). You also have to have more flexible
>>>> hips so that they can 'turn out' easily. Things like tai chi help
>>>> with this as do some dance steps. Also massage. Last, as I've said
>>>> in other posts, if your front leg/hip/groin muscles are tighter
>>>> from lots of sitting and your back leg/hip/groin muscles are
>>>> stretched from lots of sitting the whole balance is thrown off and
>>>> this sort of sitting will be tough. To work them most efficiently
>>>> would mean getting resistance bands for home exercises. Or ankle
>>>> weights.
>>>
>>> what about the lunges that tv was talking about?
>>
>> Probably too aggressive to start with. Lunges need to be done
>> properly or you can hurt your knees and to fix the problem you are
>> talking about you have to do diagonal lunges which I would be
>> hesitant to suggest unless I could show you how to do them safely.
>
>hmmm
>
>ok
>
>so now we're confused on where to start, even to start on doing
>whatever to make it easier to sit on the floor in *any* position.
You have to think first about what you want, why you want to do it.
You have to figure out which bits of you are out of balance and why
that might be. Some of this might be just 'you' at this point and not
something modifiable. Some of it might be due to lack of practice
and will come back with time. How much do you really want to change?
Next, you have to figure what you are willing to do to make these
changes. You have already said clearly you won't walk in the sand (for
example), what about buying resistance bands? spending more than 30
minutes a day exercising? using an exercise ball? You have to figure
out how you want to go about making these changes so you can optimize
what you will do.
Imo, you _are_ going to have to strengthen some core muscles (abs,
lower back) to be able to make this change. In order to do this you
will have to use resistance (ie weights, bands, etc) to give your body
something to work against/with. Just stretching and moving will help
the flexibility part but it won't fix the underlying lack of strength
in some parts of your body. It is a very common problem in our
society.
The most conservative way to start is to modify your normal routine
in small ways and add more movement to your day. Try some ring sits,
try stairs more often rather than the elevator. Try going for a 20
minute brisk walk every day (not sauntering along chatting but brisk,
I'm late for something walking). These are minimal changes that will
start the process.
A more aggressive way to start would be to get some bands and follow
the dvd/manual that will come with them. Change some of your normal
stretches or add to them. Go to www.coolrunning.com for some basic
stretches you might like. They are focusing on runners but many of
them would help you and that is easier than me trying to explain
them.
And if you want the ultimate in aggressive change, take a class like
tai chi (or get a dvd to follow) or pilates or yoga. You need to
challenge your body in different directions then it is used to moving.
>-- astri
astri
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008, the valerians wrote:
>>
>>> i didn't suggest she do lunges. i was explaining to her how to
>>> stretch her iliopsoas. it's a static stretch that doesn't stress
>>> the knees the way active lunges for strengthening do.
>>>
>>> tv
>>
>> could you explain the difference (again?) so we get it better,
>> please?
>
> http://www.thestretchinghandbook.com/archives/iliopsoas-tendonitis.php.
> scroll down near the bottom of the page. the model is stretching the
> iliopsoas (hip flexor) on her right side. if you keep your knee
> properly aligned over your foot (on, in this case, the left side), it
> won't stress the knee. your knee shouldn't go past your toes.
that link was broken but we found some others. ty.
> to do an active lunge for strengthening, you stand with your feet
> shoulder-width apart. take a big step forward with your left foot and
> bend your left knee until your thigh is parallel to the floor. your
> right knee can be bent or straight. then push off with the left foot,
> straightening the knee, and return to the starting position. this is
> a difficult exercise that *does* stress the knees and is not what i
> was recommending you do.
ok
> hth.
yes
astri
ok
ty
azure
news:1oj2f4hd4p2v7mv0c...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:50:29 -1000, astri <as...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> i didn't suggest she do lunges. i was explaining to her how to
>>> stretch her iliopsoas. it's a static stretch that doesn't stress the
>>> knees the way active lunges for strengthening do.
>>>
>>> tv
>>
>>could you explain the difference (again?) so we get it better, please?
>
> http://www.thestretchinghandbook.com/archives/iliopsoas-tendonitis.php.
> scroll down near the bottom of the page. the model is stretching the
> iliopsoas (hip flexor) on her right side. if you keep your knee
> properly aligned over your foot (on, in this case, the left side), it
> won't stress the knee. your knee shouldn't go past your toes.
Wow. Thank you.
I have problems like this. Very informative thread, thanks all.
azure
>
> to do an active lunge for strengthening, you stand with your feet
> shoulder-width apart. take a big step forward with your left foot and
> bend your left knee until your thigh is parallel to the floor. your
> right knee can be bent or straight. then push off with the left foot,
> straightening the knee, and return to the starting position. this is a
> difficult exercise that *does* stress the knees and is not what i was
> recommending you do.
>
> hth.
>
> tv
astri
> Wow. Thank you.
>
> I have problems like this. Very informative thread, thanks all.
hi
azure
news:Pine.BSI.4.64.08...@malasada.lava.net...
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008, azure wrote:
>
>> Wow. Thank you.
>>
>> I have problems like this. Very informative thread, thanks all.
>
> hi
hi, how are you doing?
azure
astri
fine?