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new-agey talk
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asdp...@gmail.com
May 20, 2013, 7:50:31 PM5/20/13
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Are other people familiar with these folks that talk about these concepts? I heard recently a whole jumble about "manifesting your ideal reality" and "reality is whatever you subconsciously want it to be" or "The universe/source wishes me to be happy and rich and beautiful, and is soon going to give me everything I could possibly want once I wish for it sincerely enough?"
I think that's the stuff of "The Secret," which is kinda huge in the last few years with a lot of people?
I recently ran across some of this.
It actually kinda...saddened me a bit.
It was like these folks were so hungry for connection, for a sense of meaning, for something, and they were all kinda preaching to each other about "the universe" and "abundance," and I wonder how many people really left the group feeling more connected to anything of substance.
I think I would be sad to believe that what "the universe" really wants for me is something so simple as a dream car or a dream house or a lottery win or ....
And it was interesting to hear some of the real sadness and hardship folks were going through, and to hear them gloss it over for themselves and each other with a "but it's not real, and it's all a hologram of reality, and I must just not be manifesting correctly....."
There was this compulsive attempt to avoid negative talk.
It left me wondering.
But then, I've seen people who have used these concepts to make their lives better, to take more responsibility for their own lives.
I remember a few years back, someone told me his success story, how "The Secret" really worked for him. He had been homeless and now his life was turned around; he was actually in a minor celebrity status. It was an interesting story.
I wondered about if it could all be that simple.
For me, "The Secret" wasn't in collaging or visualizing about the life I wanted, not that I'm aware of.
Now that my life *is* pretty good, I can listen more tolerantly and curiously to mystical theories. Perhaps it helps that I'm not in a situation where I feel like people are subtly telling me that I'm not "manifesting correctly" or "thinking positively." By these people's standards, at this point, I'm probably doing something right, or at least much more right than I was doing it a few years ago.
But it's still difficult talk to listen to, talk that, on the whole, I try to stay away from. But there are lots of spiritual seekers. It seems to be becoming much more mainstream to kinda flood other people with these "helpful" conceptions of reality.
These days, I smile and nod and try to find any piece of practicality in what people share and affirm that part.
But sometimes I wonder if there might be a useful way to challenge this stuff more directly. And I wonder if, by listening impassively to someone explain to someone else that they shouldn't, for example, seek medical attention because "illness is delusion" --
well, okay. so i don't listen impassively. but i don't confront either. not in the moment.
i wonder what others might do hearing that kinda thing?
at some point, silence becomes collusion with a "reality" that it is sometimes no longer harmless to align with, I think.
I think that's the stuff of "The Secret," which is kinda huge in the last few years with a lot of people?
I recently ran across some of this.
It actually kinda...saddened me a bit.
It was like these folks were so hungry for connection, for a sense of meaning, for something, and they were all kinda preaching to each other about "the universe" and "abundance," and I wonder how many people really left the group feeling more connected to anything of substance.
I think I would be sad to believe that what "the universe" really wants for me is something so simple as a dream car or a dream house or a lottery win or ....
And it was interesting to hear some of the real sadness and hardship folks were going through, and to hear them gloss it over for themselves and each other with a "but it's not real, and it's all a hologram of reality, and I must just not be manifesting correctly....."
There was this compulsive attempt to avoid negative talk.
It left me wondering.
But then, I've seen people who have used these concepts to make their lives better, to take more responsibility for their own lives.
I remember a few years back, someone told me his success story, how "The Secret" really worked for him. He had been homeless and now his life was turned around; he was actually in a minor celebrity status. It was an interesting story.
I wondered about if it could all be that simple.
For me, "The Secret" wasn't in collaging or visualizing about the life I wanted, not that I'm aware of.
Now that my life *is* pretty good, I can listen more tolerantly and curiously to mystical theories. Perhaps it helps that I'm not in a situation where I feel like people are subtly telling me that I'm not "manifesting correctly" or "thinking positively." By these people's standards, at this point, I'm probably doing something right, or at least much more right than I was doing it a few years ago.
But it's still difficult talk to listen to, talk that, on the whole, I try to stay away from. But there are lots of spiritual seekers. It seems to be becoming much more mainstream to kinda flood other people with these "helpful" conceptions of reality.
These days, I smile and nod and try to find any piece of practicality in what people share and affirm that part.
But sometimes I wonder if there might be a useful way to challenge this stuff more directly. And I wonder if, by listening impassively to someone explain to someone else that they shouldn't, for example, seek medical attention because "illness is delusion" --
well, okay. so i don't listen impassively. but i don't confront either. not in the moment.
i wonder what others might do hearing that kinda thing?
at some point, silence becomes collusion with a "reality" that it is sometimes no longer harmless to align with, I think.
astri
May 21, 2013, 12:11:29 PM5/21/13
to
the absurd. promise the world to desperate, needy folks who want
miracles. the group process becomes cultish.
if you're hearing this stuff in the context of a group "discussion," the
groupthink will be too powerful to fight. skeptical comments will be
met with one or more of: rejection, ejection, attack, "compassion"
(pity and group attempts to correct the poor soul), or some other form
of "join us or go." in the context of a like that group, it becomes
dangerous for an individual to express the opposite. i wouldn't
knowingly expose myself to such a group. if i found myself there
unknowlingly, i'd leave.
if you're hearing this in the context of an individual discussion, then
logical questioning may well be appropriate. but rationality and logic
doesn't always reach desperate "true believers."
asdp...@gmail.com
May 21, 2013, 3:55:30 PM5/21/13
to
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:11:29 AM UTC-7, astri wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013, asdp...@gmail.com wrote
>
>
> On Mon, 20 May 2013, asdp...@gmail.com wrote
>
>
> sounds like esalen and est before that. take one idea and elevate it to
>
> the absurd. promise the world to desperate, needy folks who want
>
> miracles. the group process becomes cultish.
>
>
>
> if you're hearing this stuff in the context of a group "discussion," the
>
> groupthink will be too powerful to fight. skeptical comments will be
>
> met with one or more of: rejection, ejection, attack, "compassion"
>
> (pity and group attempts to correct the poor soul), or some other form
>
> of "join us or go." in the context of a like that group, it becomes
>
> dangerous for an individual to express the opposite. i wouldn't
>
> knowingly expose myself to such a group. if i found myself there
>
> unknowlingly, i'd leave.
>
>
>
> if you're hearing this in the context of an individual discussion, then
>
> logical questioning may well be appropriate. but rationality and logic
>
> doesn't always reach desperate "true believers."
Your take sounds accurate.
>
> the absurd. promise the world to desperate, needy folks who want
>
> miracles. the group process becomes cultish.
>
>
>
> if you're hearing this stuff in the context of a group "discussion," the
>
> groupthink will be too powerful to fight. skeptical comments will be
>
> met with one or more of: rejection, ejection, attack, "compassion"
>
> (pity and group attempts to correct the poor soul), or some other form
>
> of "join us or go." in the context of a like that group, it becomes
>
> dangerous for an individual to express the opposite. i wouldn't
>
> knowingly expose myself to such a group. if i found myself there
>
> unknowlingly, i'd leave.
>
>
>
> if you're hearing this in the context of an individual discussion, then
>
> logical questioning may well be appropriate. but rationality and logic
>
> doesn't always reach desperate "true believers."
I think that esalon and est were those highly confrontive groups? Where you were supposed to approach people and say the first thing that came to mind so that you could catalyze "healing" of some sort?
I'm really glad I never attended a retreat of anything like that!
It seems true that the group think is cultish and builds on itself.
With individuals, it is much more possible to direct conversation in other directions and gently counter "lofty" concepts with real world stuff.
ASD Poster
Jun 1, 2013, 1:11:04 AM6/1/13
to
On Monday, May 20, 2013 4:50:31 PM UTC-7, ASD Poster wrote:
> Are other people familiar with these folks that talk about these concepts? I heard recently a whole jumble about "manifesting your ideal reality" and "reality is whatever you subconsciously want it to be" or "The universe/source wishes me to be happy and rich and beautiful, and is soon going to give me everything I could possibly want once I wish for it sincerely enough?"
I now have an addendum to add to this post.
> Are other people familiar with these folks that talk about these concepts? I heard recently a whole jumble about "manifesting your ideal reality" and "reality is whatever you subconsciously want it to be" or "The universe/source wishes me to be happy and rich and beautiful, and is soon going to give me everything I could possibly want once I wish for it sincerely enough?"
I just heard a speaker that talked about something very helpful to my understanding about folks who use this type of talk. It was something that maybe I'd felt and kinda "known" but without quite putting my finger on it before.
He talked about the impact of developmental trauma, and was talking about different ways that folks might disconnect from their experience.
He suggested that "sp*ritualizing" is a defense mechanism, kinda like intellectualizing, but different. He said something like, "Some people who put everything in sp*ritual terms have never really felt safe enough to arrive on planet earth."
His audience laughed with appreciation of his comment. And it gave me some insight on how to better understand what's happening with these folks. It doesn't mean I'm going to hang out in their clubs! But I think I'll "get it" better now and from a more compassionate but objective perspective.
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