Shopped
ubiquity
to go buy groceries. Lots time, ended up in "Sugarhood" area of
Sugarhouse. Our arm was bl**ding lots again. Tried to get home. Felt
really disoriented. Scared of everybody. Couldn't tell who was bad and
who was signaling. Got real paranoid when someone made phone sign to his
head with his hand in a car at us and shouted something, but we didn't
hear. We sat down at a bus stop. Got on the bus. Couldn't read the bus
number right. It was going the wrong way but we wanted away from that
area. Rode it a while, then got off. Laid down in the grass, called t,
but she didn't answer. Left a message though. She hasn't called back.
Had to find another bus. One to go home. Got on another bus and got
close enough to walk four blocks home, it was going north. Now we home.
Threw up some laying in the grass. Now we got a big eye headache while
writing this. Maybe going to rest and wait for t to call back. Not
feeling good tonight.
--
-ubiquity
cometz
you need a safe place to go when you want to get out of home. maybe
talk to t about that. if daytime maybe she will let you come sit in
her waiting room. or can help find a place to go just to be safe. not
to be made to do anything, just where others inside won't have terror.
being on streets is too hard for all of you. please ask if she has
ideas to help. is a psych hsptl in d.c. where they used to let you
come sit in waiting room for a few hours. was weird they were nice
like that, but it happened. was different from regular hsptl waiting
room cause of not many ppl there and not all the scurrying around
stuff. just quiet and big chairs to sit in. big window to look out.
don't know. just talking cause can't really help. wish could give you
safe place. safe ppl.
betsy
ubiquity
> On Oct 3, 10:41?pm, ubiquity <ubiqu...@cryptobug.com> wrote:
>> About five-thirty really really needed to leave the apartment. We went
>> to go buy groceries. Lots time, ended up in "Sugarhood" area of
>> Sugarhouse. Our arm was bl**ding lots again. Tried to get home. Felt
>> really disoriented. Scared of everybody. Couldn't tell who was bad and
>> who was signaling. Got real paranoid when someone made phone sign to his
>> head with his hand in a car at us and shouted something, but we didn't
>> hear. We sat down at a bus stop. Got on the bus. Couldn't read the bus
>> number right. It was going the wrong way but we wanted away from that
>> area. Rode it a while, then got off. Laid down in the grass, called t,
>> but she didn't answer. Left a message though. She hasn't called back.
>> Had to find another bus. One to go home. Got on another bus and got
>> close enough to walk four blocks home, it was going north. Now we home.
>> Threw up some laying in the grass. Now we got a big eye headache while
>> writing this. Maybe going to rest and wait for t to call back. Not
>> feeling good tonight.
>
> talk to t about that. if daytime maybe she will let you come sit in
> her waiting room. or can help find a place to go just to be safe. not
> to be made to do anything, just where others inside won't have terror.
> being on streets is too hard for all of you. please ask if she has
> ideas to help.
Ok, yesterday she told someone to go to my tribe's safe place. Said she
should rest there. Then she asked to talk to Wendy if Wendy wanted.
> is a psych hsptl in d.c. where they used to let you
> come sit in waiting room for a few hours. was weird they were nice
> like that, but it happened. was different from regular hsptl waiting
> room cause of not many ppl there and not all the scurrying around
> stuff. just quiet and big chairs to sit in. big window to look out.
> don't know. just talking cause can't really help. wish could give you
> safe place. safe ppl.
Ok. Tried doing that before at the agency, but agency thrpst told us to
stop because she didn't want us dependant on the waiting room. :/
--
-ubiquity
cometz
is why that agency t was useless. your real and now t understands and
will help you figure out places to get safe when you need to. she can
help the others to know as well.
almost should be a rule that if someone of the agency said something
it was probably wrong or stupid or useless or bad for you.
maybe even someplace like coffee shop near you could be a safe place
to sit with a cup of tea or soup just to be out of home but not too
far from it.
betsy
ubiquity
> On Oct 4, 1:25?am, ubiquity <ubiqu...@cryptobug.com> wrote:
>> Ok. Tried doing that before at the agency, but agency thrpst told us to
>> stop because she didn't want us dependant on the waiting room. :/
>
> will help you figure out places to get safe when you need to. she can
> help the others to know as well.
>
> almost should be a rule that if someone of the agency said something
> it was probably wrong or stupid or useless or bad for you.
>
> maybe even someplace like coffee shop near you could be a safe place
> to sit with a cup of tea or soup just to be out of home but not too
> far from it.
>
> betsy
Wish we had a place like that. T said we could stay in her waiting room
if we wanted on friday to wait for the bus, but we didn't.
--
-ubiquity
Emerging Butterfly
You can take her up on her offers. she's not the agency t. and not
trying to trick you.
i hope you can find safe places to go too.
i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
home and call t.
>
> --
> -ubiquity
ubiquity
> On Oct 4, 9:03?am, ubiquity <ubiqu...@cryptobug.com> wrote:
>> Wish we had a place like that. T said we could stay in her waiting room
>> if we wanted on friday to wait for the bus, but we didn't.
>
> You can take her up on her offers. she's not the agency t. and not
> trying to trick you.
We never sure about that. Afraid she's going to take it back. We do like
the waiting room, and we've never been there long enough to look at all
the shrink comics collaged in a frame on the wall. We just worried.
> i hope you can find safe places to go too.
> i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
> pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
> somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
> home and call t.
Maybe. Thought that was kind of it yesterday, so I went and layed down
instead, but we had to get up. We had to go. T sent us a text message
this morning. She said sorry she didn't call us back yesterday. Said her
daughter had a mdcl em*rgency and she asked if we were ok. Told her
yeah, we're ok. Didn't want her to worry about us if she is busy. Is her
day off anyways too.
We having a hard day today. Is m*rm*n general conference today. That, in
general, is a bad day, but we live downtown too, and the ch*rch members
don't bug us other than the heavier traffic and filled to capacity buses
(they really ought to run a weekday schedule on sundays twice a year for
these) The firebrand protestors in town do bother us. They drive around
in trucks and vans, ab*rt*on posters on the sides, screaming into
bullhorns all day for two days. It is very angry, and very hard to be
around it. :(
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
> On 2009-10-04, Emerging Butterfly wrote...
>> On Oct 4, 9:03?am, ubiquity <ubiqu...@cryptobug.com> wrote:
>>> Wish we had a place like that. T said we could stay in her waiting room
>>> if we wanted on friday to wait for the bus, but we didn't.
>> You can take her up on her offers. she's not the agency t. and not
>> trying to trick you.
>
> We never sure about that. Afraid she's going to take it back. We do like
> the waiting room, and we've never been there long enough to look at all
> the shrink comics collaged in a frame on the wall. We just worried.
is okay. you really can take her up on her offers. think about the other
times you thought she might be tricking you. has she done that yet?
i do know it feels that way sometimes with her having said to call
anytime and then not always returning the calls. but that wasn't a
trick. was maybe poor judgment on her part if she implied she would
always be available.
but really think sitting in her waiting room is okay if she says it is.
>
>> i hope you can find safe places to go too.
>> i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
>> pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
>> somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
>> home and call t.
>
> Maybe. Thought that was kind of it yesterday, so I went and layed down
> instead, but we had to get up. We had to go.
:( we know that feeling.
T sent us a text message
> this morning. She said sorry she didn't call us back yesterday. Said her
> daughter had a mdcl em*rgency and she asked if we were ok. Told her
> yeah, we're ok. Didn't want her to worry about us if she is busy. Is her
> day off anyways too.
if it's still really really tough, i suggest texting her to say that you
are working hard not to bother her, but you are still struggling a lot.
>
> We having a hard day today. Is m*rm*n general conference today.
oh ughness.
That, in
> general, is a bad day,
ab*sers used m*rmonism?
but we live downtown too, and the ch*rch members
> don't bug us other than the heavier traffic and filled to capacity buses
> (they really ought to run a weekday schedule on sundays twice a year for
> these) The firebrand protestors in town do bother us. They drive around
> in trucks and vans, ab*rt*on posters on the sides, screaming into
> bullhorns all day for two days. It is very angry, and very hard to be
> around it. :(
ugh. these are m*rmons or chr*stians?
both do that?
>
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> We never sure about that. Afraid she's going to take it back. We do like
>> the waiting room, and we've never been there long enough to look at all
>> the shrink comics collaged in a frame on the wall. We just worried.
>
> is okay. you really can take her up on her offers. think about the other
> times you thought she might be tricking you. has she done that yet?
No, not yet that we know of, but sometimes setting up takes time, and we
have stayed on guard there for the most part. Still a bit worries she
knew that doc's name, but we aren't supposed to talk about that so we
never asked how she knows.
> i do know it feels that way sometimes with her having said to call
> anytime and then not always returning the calls. but that wasn't a
> trick. was maybe poor judgment on her part if she implied she would
> always be available.
> but really think sitting in her waiting room is okay if she says it is.
We don't want to be a bother though.
>>> i hope you can find safe places to go too.
>>> i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
>>> pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
>>> somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
>>> home and call t.
>>
>> Maybe. Thought that was kind of it yesterday, so I went and layed down
>> instead, but we had to get up. We had to go.
>
> :( we know that feeling.
Something bad would happen if we didn't go.
>> T sent us a text message this morning. She said sorry she didn't call
>> us back yesterday. Said her daughter had a mdcl em*rgency and she
>> asked if we were ok. Told her yeah, we're ok. Didn't want her to
>> worry about us if she is busy. Is her day off anyways too.
>
> if it's still really really tough, i suggest texting her to say that you
> are working hard not to bother her, but you are still struggling a lot.
Ok, maybe. If we need to call we will, but not sure when she'll get it.
She turns the phone completely off in md hsptls.
>> We having a hard day today. Is m*rm*n general conference today.
>
> oh ughness.
Yeah.
>> That, in general, is a bad day,
>
> ab*sers used m*rmonism?
No, but some are members, and lots of the same terms in both, and some
things correspond because the business of conference detracts from
others making more public things less secured.
>> but we live downtown too, and the ch*rch members don't bug us other
>> than the heavier traffic and filled to capacity buses (they really
>> ought to run a weekday schedule on sundays twice a year for these)
>> The firebrand protestors in town do bother us. They drive around in
>> trucks and vans, ab*rt*on posters on the sides, screaming into
>> bullhorns all day for two days. It is very angry, and very hard to be
>> around it. :(
>
> ugh. these are m*rmons or chr*stians?
> both do that?
Is the chr*stians who scream. They come from states away too. People
like even Fr*d Ph*lps come to protest m*rm*nism or just general stuff.
Ties up all the police in the city to control them. All the city police
end up on one street all day making sure ri*ting doesn't happen. That
keeps some protesters away from where they'd like to be, so they drive
around the whole city shouting at everybody at the top of their lungs
through bullhorns, screaming b*ble texts through them. Is very not good.
We don't like it.
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>> ubiquity wrote:
>>> We never sure about that. Afraid she's going to take it back. We do like
>>> the waiting room, and we've never been there long enough to look at all
>>> the shrink comics collaged in a frame on the wall. We just worried.
>> is okay. you really can take her up on her offers. think about the other
>> times you thought she might be tricking you. has she done that yet?
>
> No, not yet that we know of, but sometimes setting up takes time,
that's very true. and people setting up tend to wait for trust to
develop so that the set-up works. don't think she is setting you up, but
i can understand and honor you're wanting to make sure. that's important.
and we
> have stayed on guard there for the most part. Still a bit worries she
> knew that doc's name, but we aren't supposed to talk about that so we
> never asked how she knows.
i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with lots of
people who have been through stuff with some of the same people? she
knows from working with them, working with other clients who have been
through things like you.
>
>> i do know it feels that way sometimes with her having said to call
>> anytime and then not always returning the calls. but that wasn't a
>> trick. was maybe poor judgment on her part if she implied she would
>> always be available.
>> but really think sitting in her waiting room is okay if she says it is.
>
> We don't want to be a bother though.
i know.
>
>>>> i hope you can find safe places to go too.
>>>> i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
>>>> pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
>>>> somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
>>>> home and call t.
>>> Maybe. Thought that was kind of it yesterday, so I went and layed down
>>> instead, but we had to get up. We had to go.
>> :( we know that feeling.
>
> Something bad would happen if we didn't go.
yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up so
you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if you
didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop going,
and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
>
>>> T sent us a text message this morning. She said sorry she didn't call
>>> us back yesterday. Said her daughter had a mdcl em*rgency and she
>>> asked if we were ok. Told her yeah, we're ok. Didn't want her to
>>> worry about us if she is busy. Is her day off anyways too.
>> if it's still really really tough, i suggest texting her to say that you
>> are working hard not to bother her, but you are still struggling a lot.
>
> Ok, maybe. If we need to call we will, but not sure when she'll get it.
> She turns the phone completely off in md hsptls.
ah, yeah, the hsptls require that.
>
>>> We having a hard day today. Is m*rm*n general conference today.
>> oh ughness.
>
> Yeah.
>
>>> That, in general, is a bad day,
>> ab*sers used m*rmonism?
>
> No, but some are members, and lots of the same terms in both, and some
> things correspond because the business of conference detracts from
> others making more public things less secured.
confused - can you clarify that last statement please? maybe say it
another way?
>
>>> but we live downtown too, and the ch*rch members don't bug us other
>>> than the heavier traffic and filled to capacity buses (they really
>>> ought to run a weekday schedule on sundays twice a year for these)
>>> The firebrand protestors in town do bother us. They drive around in
>>> trucks and vans, ab*rt*on posters on the sides, screaming into
>>> bullhorns all day for two days. It is very angry, and very hard to be
>>> around it. :(
>> ugh. these are m*rmons or chr*stians?
>> both do that?
>
> Is the chr*stians who scream.
thought so.
They come from states away too.
wow.
People
> like even Fr*d Ph*lps come to protest m*rm*nism or just general stuff.
> Ties up all the police in the city to control them. All the city police
> end up on one street all day making sure ri*ting doesn't happen. That
> keeps some protesters away from where they'd like to be, so they drive
> around the whole city shouting at everybody at the top of their lungs
> through bullhorns, screaming b*ble texts through them. Is very not good.
> We don't like it.
:(
>
Shiyiya
Yuck, that sounds really unpleasant :(
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>> times you thought she might be tricking you. has she done that yet?
>>
>> No, not yet that we know of, but sometimes setting up takes time,
>
> that's very true. and people setting up tend to wait for trust to
> develop so that the set-up works. don't think she is setting you up, but
> i can understand and honor you're wanting to make sure. that's important.
Ok, and we always say we won't trust a thrpst, and then we end up
trusting them. Last time took a whole year to really trust agency
thrpst, and she started changing things up soon after, and I felt like a
fool.
>> and we have stayed on guard there for the most part. Still a bit
>> worries she knew that doc's name, but we aren't supposed to talk
>> about that so we never asked how she knows.
>
> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with lots of
> people who have been through stuff with some of the same people? she
> knows from working with them, working with other clients who have been
> through things like you.
Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it. If
others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his name.
Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
T worked near where we lives as a kid teh twenty years ago. Friday she
asked if she ever talked to us about the plane crash there. We remember.
She worked for school district then. She talked to lots of kids our age
about it. :) She knows we scared of planes too. Plane soudns triggering.
She adked yesterday.
>>> i do know it feels that way sometimes with her having said to call
>>> anytime and then not always returning the calls. but that wasn't a
>>> trick. was maybe poor judgment on her part if she implied she would
>>> always be available.
>>> but really think sitting in her waiting room is okay if she says it is.
>>
>> We don't want to be a bother though.
>
> i know.
k
>>>>> i hope you can find safe places to go too.
>>>>> i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
>>>>> pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
>>>>> somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
>>>>> home and call t.
>>>> Maybe. Thought that was kind of it yesterday, so I went and layed down
>>>> instead, but we had to get up. We had to go.
>>> :( we know that feeling.
>>
>> Something bad would happen if we didn't go.
>
> yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up so
> you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if you
> didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop going,
> and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
what if thems right?
>>>> T sent us a text message this morning. She said sorry she didn't call
>>>> us back yesterday. Said her daughter had a mdcl em*rgency and she
>>>> asked if we were ok. Told her yeah, we're ok. Didn't want her to
>>>> worry about us if she is busy. Is her day off anyways too.
>>> if it's still really really tough, i suggest texting her to say that you
>>> are working hard not to bother her, but you are still struggling a lot.
>>
>> Ok, maybe. If we need to call we will, but not sure when she'll get it.
>> She turns the phone completely off in md hsptls.
>
> ah, yeah, the hsptls require that.
somes tiemes because they said we could have it on now cuz they got
difrent toknology. :)
>>>> We having a hard day today. Is m*rm*n general conference today.
>>> oh ughness.
>>
>> Yeah.
>>
>>>> That, in general, is a bad day,
>>> ab*sers used m*rmonism?
>>
>> No, but some are members, and lots of the same terms in both, and some
>> things correspond because the business of conference detracts from
>> others making more public things less secured.
>
> confused - can you clarify that last statement please? maybe say it
> another way?
lotsa places dont got workers working there cuz they all goin to
confrense and lotsa places can get got in
>>>> but we live downtown too, and the ch*rch members don't bug us other
>>>> than the heavier traffic and filled to capacity buses (they really
>>>> ought to run a weekday schedule on sundays twice a year for these)
>>>> The firebrand protestors in town do bother us. They drive around in
>>>> trucks and vans, ab*rt*on posters on the sides, screaming into
>>>> bullhorns all day for two days. It is very angry, and very hard to be
>>>> around it. :(
>>> ugh. these are m*rmons or chr*stians?
>>> both do that?
>>
>> Is the chr*stians who scream.
>
> thought so.
>
> They come from states away too.
>
> wow.
and they yellin so loud
> People
>> like even Fr*d Ph*lps come to protest m*rm*nism or just general stuff.
>> Ties up all the police in the city to control them. All the city police
>> end up on one street all day making sure ri*ting doesn't happen. That
>> keeps some protesters away from where they'd like to be, so they drive
>> around the whole city shouting at everybody at the top of their lungs
>> through bullhorns, screaming b*ble texts through them. Is very not good.
>> We don't like it.
>
>:(
yea
--
-ubiquity
Shiyiya
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>> ubiquity wrote:
>>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>>> is okay. you really can take her up on her offers. think about the other
>>>> times you thought she might be tricking you. has she done that yet?
>>> No, not yet that we know of, but sometimes setting up takes time,
>> that's very true. and people setting up tend to wait for trust to
>> develop so that the set-up works. don't think she is setting you up, but
>> i can understand and honor you're wanting to make sure. that's important.
>
> Ok, and we always say we won't trust a thrpst, and then we end up
> trusting them. Last time took a whole year to really trust agency
> thrpst, and she started changing things up soon after, and I felt like a
> fool.
>
>>> and we have stayed on guard there for the most part. Still a bit
>>> worries she knew that doc's name, but we aren't supposed to talk
>>> about that so we never asked how she knows.
>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with lots of
>> people who have been through stuff with some of the same people? she
>> knows from working with them, working with other clients who have been
>> through things like you.
>
> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it. If
> others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his name.
> Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
Maybe one of the people who moved to another state and was safe and far
away healed and depr*grammed enough to be able to tell her?
sounds to us like it's more likely something bad will happen if you *do* go.
sounds really yucky to be around.
emerging butterfly
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>> ubiquity wrote:
>>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>>> is okay. you really can take her up on her offers. think about the other
>>>> times you thought she might be tricking you. has she done that yet?
>>> No, not yet that we know of, but sometimes setting up takes time,
>> that's very true. and people setting up tend to wait for trust to
>> develop so that the set-up works. don't think she is setting you up, but
>> i can understand and honor you're wanting to make sure. that's important.
>
> Ok, and we always say we won't trust a thrpst, and then we end up
> trusting them. Last time took a whole year to really trust agency
> thrpst, and she started changing things up soon after, and I felt like a
> fool.
:(
i know it.
agency thrpst really wasn't trying to set you up though. she was just
really incompetent because of the supervision she had and heeded.
>
>>> and we have stayed on guard there for the most part. Still a bit
>>> worries she knew that doc's name, but we aren't supposed to talk
>>> about that so we never asked how she knows.
>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with lots of
>> people who have been through stuff with some of the same people? she
>> knows from working with them, working with other clients who have been
>> through things like you.
>
> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it. If
> others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his name.
> Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
that's the thing -- you've learned it's bad bad bad bad bad to say his
name so he won't be found out. other clients learned that the stuff you
learned was bad to say is okay to say, so they said it once they
trusted. and they're likely freer inside now for having said it.
you were told lots of lies about what is bad.
>
> T worked near where we lives as a kid teh twenty years ago. Friday she
> asked if she ever talked to us about the plane crash there. We remember.
> She worked for school district then. She talked to lots of kids our age
> about it. :) She knows we scared of planes too. Plane soudns triggering.
> She adked yesterday.
yeah.
>
>>>> i do know it feels that way sometimes with her having said to call
>>>> anytime and then not always returning the calls. but that wasn't a
>>>> trick. was maybe poor judgment on her part if she implied she would
>>>> always be available.
>>>> but really think sitting in her waiting room is okay if she says it is.
>>> We don't want to be a bother though.
>> i know.
>
> k
>
>>>>>> i hope you can find safe places to go too.
>>>>>> i also wonder if the urgent need to get out of the house may signal a
>>>>>> pr*gram from inside and someone is perhaps cued to take over and go
>>>>>> somewhere specific. maybe the urge itself is a warning sign to stay
>>>>>> home and call t.
>>>>> Maybe. Thought that was kind of it yesterday, so I went and layed down
>>>>> instead, but we had to get up. We had to go.
>>>> :( we know that feeling.
>>> Something bad would happen if we didn't go.
>> yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up so
>> you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if you
>> didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop going,
>> and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
>
> what if thems right?
they're just trying to scare you. think about this -- if they were
right, they wouldn't ever have to tell you how bad some things would be
for you. they told you over and over so you'd believe it so you'd never
test it.
>
>>>>> T sent us a text message this morning. She said sorry she didn't call
>>>>> us back yesterday. Said her daughter had a mdcl em*rgency and she
>>>>> asked if we were ok. Told her yeah, we're ok. Didn't want her to
>>>>> worry about us if she is busy. Is her day off anyways too.
>>>> if it's still really really tough, i suggest texting her to say that you
>>>> are working hard not to bother her, but you are still struggling a lot.
>>> Ok, maybe. If we need to call we will, but not sure when she'll get it.
>>> She turns the phone completely off in md hsptls.
>> ah, yeah, the hsptls require that.
>
> somes tiemes because they said we could have it on now cuz they got
> difrent toknology. :)
:)
>
>>>>> We having a hard day today. Is m*rm*n general conference today.
>>>> oh ughness.
>>> Yeah.
>>>
>>>>> That, in general, is a bad day,
>>>> ab*sers used m*rmonism?
>>> No, but some are members, and lots of the same terms in both, and some
>>> things correspond because the business of conference detracts from
>>> others making more public things less secured.
>> confused - can you clarify that last statement please? maybe say it
>> another way?
>
> lotsa places dont got workers working there cuz they all goin to
> confrense and lotsa places can get got in
oh, got it.
>
>>>>> but we live downtown too, and the ch*rch members don't bug us other
>>>>> than the heavier traffic and filled to capacity buses (they really
>>>>> ought to run a weekday schedule on sundays twice a year for these)
>>>>> The firebrand protestors in town do bother us. They drive around in
>>>>> trucks and vans, ab*rt*on posters on the sides, screaming into
>>>>> bullhorns all day for two days. It is very angry, and very hard to be
>>>>> around it. :(
>>>> ugh. these are m*rmons or chr*stians?
>>>> both do that?
>>> Is the chr*stians who scream.
>> thought so.
>>
>> They come from states away too.
>>
>> wow.
>
> and they yellin so loud
sorry. :(
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>> develop so that the set-up works. don't think she is setting you up, but
>>> i can understand and honor you're wanting to make sure. that's important.
>>
>> Ok, and we always say we won't trust a thrpst, and then we end up
>> trusting them. Last time took a whole year to really trust agency
>> thrpst, and she started changing things up soon after, and I felt like a
>> fool.
>
> :(
> i know it.
> agency thrpst really wasn't trying to set you up though. she was just
> really incompetent because of the supervision she had and heeded.
Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information. Miss her though. :(
>>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with lots of
>>> people who have been through stuff with some of the same people? she
>>> knows from working with them, working with other clients who have been
>>> through things like you.
>>
>> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it. If
>> others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his name.
>> Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
>
> that's the thing -- you've learned it's bad bad bad bad bad to say his
> name so he won't be found out. other clients learned that the stuff you
> learned was bad to say is okay to say, so they said it once they
> trusted. and they're likely freer inside now for having said it.
> you were told lots of lies about what is bad.
If they told, then we'll get p*nished for it and bad things will happen.
>> T worked near where we lives as a kid teh twenty years ago. Friday she
>> asked if she ever talked to us about the plane crash there. We remember.
>> She worked for school district then. She talked to lots of kids our age
>> about it. :) She knows we scared of planes too. Plane soudns triggering.
>> She adked yesterday.
>
> yeah.
Sorry, someone else finished the post. :/
>>> yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up so
>>> you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if you
>>> didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop going,
>>> and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
>>
>> what if thems right?
>
> they're just trying to scare you. think about this -- if they were
> right, they wouldn't ever have to tell you how bad some things would be
> for you. they told you over and over so you'd believe it so you'd never
> test it.
We're scared.
>>> ah, yeah, the hsptls require that.
>>
>> somes tiemes because they said we could have it on now cuz they got
>> difrent toknology. :)
>
> :)
They still say turn them off on the signs though. She was remembering
them letting us call long distance on a cell phone there before.
>>> confused - can you clarify that last statement please? maybe say it
>>> another way?
>>
>> lotsa places dont got workers working there cuz they all goin to
>> confrense and lotsa places can get got in
>
> oh, got it.
Is bad.
>>> thought so.
>>>
>>> They come from states away too.
>>>
>>> wow.
>>
>> and they yellin so loud
>
> sorry. :(
We were walking past a parade one day and there were anti-gay protesters
on the side shouting at people. They were from montana. Not sure why
they'd drive to Salt Lake to protest that on Pioneer Day. :/
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>> ubiquity wrote:
>>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>>> that's very true. and people setting up tend to wait for trust to
>>>> develop so that the set-up works. don't think she is setting you up, but
>>>> i can understand and honor you're wanting to make sure. that's important.
>>> Ok, and we always say we won't trust a thrpst, and then we end up
>>> trusting them. Last time took a whole year to really trust agency
>>> thrpst, and she started changing things up soon after, and I felt like a
>>> fool.
>> :(
>> i know it.
>> agency thrpst really wasn't trying to set you up though. she was just
>> really incompetent because of the supervision she had and heeded.
>
> Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information.
yeah, can understand that fear. don't think she was doing that.
Miss her though. :(
of course!
she was nice before she was dismissive, and that's got to feel like a
horrible set up or like you were bad. you weren't bad though. she just
didn't understand.
still doesn't make her words and behavior right though.
>
>>>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with lots of
>>>> people who have been through stuff with some of the same people? she
>>>> knows from working with them, working with other clients who have been
>>>> through things like you.
>>> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it. If
>>> others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his name.
>>> Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
>> that's the thing -- you've learned it's bad bad bad bad bad to say his
>> name so he won't be found out. other clients learned that the stuff you
>> learned was bad to say is okay to say, so they said it once they
>> trusted. and they're likely freer inside now for having said it.
>> you were told lots of lies about what is bad.
>
> If they told, then we'll get p*nished for it and bad things will happen.
nope. have you gotten p*nished for them telling?
you know why you were told that would happen? cuz if you told, the bad
people might get p*nished and they didn't want that. not you, them.
>
>>> T worked near where we lives as a kid teh twenty years ago. Friday she
>>> asked if she ever talked to us about the plane crash there. We remember.
>>> She worked for school district then. She talked to lots of kids our age
>>> about it. :) She knows we scared of planes too. Plane soudns triggering.
>>> She adked yesterday.
>> yeah.
>
> Sorry, someone else finished the post. :/
heh, i saw that. it's okay. figured maybe someone else mighta felt safe
to talk? and that's a good thing. we thought of asking for a name, but
we didn't want to frighten.
>
>>>> yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up so
>>>> you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if you
>>>> didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop going,
>>>> and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
>>> what if thems right?
>> they're just trying to scare you. think about this -- if they were
>> right, they wouldn't ever have to tell you how bad some things would be
>> for you. they told you over and over so you'd believe it so you'd never
>> test it.
>
> We're scared.
i know it. they put lots of big dark fears in you. and you know, some of
the things you're most scared to do are exactly the healing things to
do. they made it so it would feel really scary to move forward.
so maybe in a way, the fear is a sign that you're moving forward?
with time, you'll learn to do things that you're scared to do, like stay
home from the r*tuals and tell your story. those are good things, and
they will help make you free.
but you do have to make sure you tell the right people-- think asd is
safe and think the current t. is too. but you gotta test those things
out and make sure they're true.
>
>>>> ah, yeah, the hsptls require that.
>>> somes tiemes because they said we could have it on now cuz they got
>>> difrent toknology. :)
>> :)
>
> They still say turn them off on the signs though. She was remembering
> them letting us call long distance on a cell phone there before.
ah.
>
>>>> confused - can you clarify that last statement please? maybe say it
>>>> another way?
>>> lotsa places dont got workers working there cuz they all goin to
>>> confrense and lotsa places can get got in
>> oh, got it.
>
> Is bad.
>
>>>> thought so.
>>>>
>>>> They come from states away too.
>>>>
>>>> wow.
>>> and they yellin so loud
>> sorry. :(
>
> We were walking past a parade one day and there were anti-gay protesters
> on the side shouting at people. They were from montana. Not sure why
> they'd drive to Salt Lake to protest that on Pioneer Day. :/
heh. yeah, no kidding.
>
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information.
>
> yeah, can understand that fear. don't think she was doing that.
Ok. Glad. Wish we could get our file there removed though. Oh yeah, is
only six more days and we'll be off civil commitment again! :) We made
it seven months with no inpatient stays. :)
>> Miss her though. :(
>
> of course!
> she was nice before she was dismissive, and that's got to feel like a
> horrible set up or like you were bad. you weren't bad though. she just
> didn't understand.
> still doesn't make her words and behavior right though.
Felt really bad because she had promised things, and then changed them.
When we asked why, she said is because relationships change, and we
thought it was important to always keep promises.
>>> that's the thing -- you've learned it's bad bad bad bad bad to say his
>>> name so he won't be found out. other clients learned that the stuff you
>>> learned was bad to say is okay to say, so they said it once they
>>> trusted. and they're likely freer inside now for having said it.
>>> you were told lots of lies about what is bad.
>>
>> If they told, then we'll get p*nished for it and bad things will happen.
>
> nope. have you gotten p*nished for them telling?
Don't know. We've been p*nished for other kids bad things before, but
don't know this specifically.
> you know why you were told that would happen? cuz if you told, the bad
> people might get p*nished and they didn't want that. not you, them.
T asked questions don't remember this week or last week, about if we
knew anybody a child he still h*rting, we never see that anymore. Never
see kids there except last october. She said she wants others inside to
maybe snitch what they can about his stuff so she can "get his *ss
thrown back in prison" and leave us alone once and for all.
Somehow she knows his name now. She said it once, and we freaked out.
She said sorry. She said she didn't know not to use his name. We h*te
hearing it.
>>> yeah.
>>
>> Sorry, someone else finished the post. :/
>
> heh, i saw that. it's okay. figured maybe someone else mighta felt safe
> to talk? and that's a good thing. we thought of asking for a name, but
> we didn't want to frighten.
Is ok. We've all been posting here as ubiquity last couple weeks. Others
names were being posted in other groups, thought this would be safer for
right now. Hope that's ok.
>>> they're just trying to scare you. think about this -- if they were
>>> right, they wouldn't ever have to tell you how bad some things would be
>>> for you. they told you over and over so you'd believe it so you'd never
>>> test it.
>>
>> We're scared.
>
> i know it. they put lots of big dark fears in you. and you know, some of
> the things you're most scared to do are exactly the healing things to
> do. they made it so it would feel really scary to move forward.
> so maybe in a way, the fear is a sign that you're moving forward?
Don't know. Kind of confusing.
> with time, you'll learn to do things that you're scared to do, like stay
> home from the r*tuals and tell your story. those are good things, and
> they will help make you free.
T said so too.
> but you do have to make sure you tell the right people-- think asd is
> safe and think the current t. is too. but you gotta test those things
> out and make sure they're true.
Ok, yeah, t said be very cautious who we tell right now. T said maybe
good for some of us not to be so open with new people right now. (Not
here, but offline)
>> They still say turn them off on the signs though. She was remembering
>> them letting us call long distance on a cell phone there before.
>
> ah.
That was last big big OD. They said it was ok there. Said all their
equiptment runs on a different frequency now. Now they keep saying that
because people wouldn't get off their phones when docs came in to talk
to them and stuff.
>> We were walking past a parade one day and there were anti-gay protesters
>> on the side shouting at people. They were from montana. Not sure why
>> they'd drive to Salt Lake to protest that on Pioneer Day. :/
>
> heh. yeah, no kidding.
Thought it was a little funny because as we walked past, one was saying
to the other "I think the l*rd has given me the loudest voice this day."
when it seemed to us they were being very much ignored by everyone
there.
--
-ubiquity
Shiyiya
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>> ubiquity wrote:
>>> Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information.
>> yeah, can understand that fear. don't think she was doing that.
>
> Ok. Glad. Wish we could get our file there removed though. Oh yeah, is
> only six more days and we'll be off civil commitment again! :) We made
> it seven months with no inpatient stays. :)
:)
>
>>> Miss her though. :(
>> of course!
>> she was nice before she was dismissive, and that's got to feel like a
>> horrible set up or like you were bad. you weren't bad though. she just
>> didn't understand.
>> still doesn't make her words and behavior right though.
>
> Felt really bad because she had promised things, and then changed them.
> When we asked why, she said is because relationships change, and we
> thought it was important to always keep promises.
we agree, promises are important. wasn't good of her to go back on them.
is okay with us
emerging butterfly
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>> ubiquity wrote:
>>> Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information.
>> yeah, can understand that fear. don't think she was doing that.
>
> Ok. Glad. Wish we could get our file there removed though. Oh yeah, is
> only six more days and we'll be off civil commitment again! :) We made
> it seven months with no inpatient stays. :)
yay you!
:)
>
>>> Miss her though. :(
>> of course!
>> she was nice before she was dismissive, and that's got to feel like a
>> horrible set up or like you were bad. you weren't bad though. she just
>> didn't understand.
>> still doesn't make her words and behavior right though.
>
> Felt really bad because she had promised things, and then changed them.
> When we asked why, she said is because relationships change, and we
> thought it was important to always keep promises.
that was a bullsh*t answer she gave you, condescending.
>
>>>> that's the thing -- you've learned it's bad bad bad bad bad to say his
>>>> name so he won't be found out. other clients learned that the stuff you
>>>> learned was bad to say is okay to say, so they said it once they
>>>> trusted. and they're likely freer inside now for having said it.
>>>> you were told lots of lies about what is bad.
>>> If they told, then we'll get p*nished for it and bad things will happen.
>> nope. have you gotten p*nished for them telling?
>
> Don't know. We've been p*nished for other kids bad things before, but
> don't know this specifically.
okay
>
>> you know why you were told that would happen? cuz if you told, the bad
>> people might get p*nished and they didn't want that. not you, them.
>
> T asked questions don't remember this week or last week, about if we
> knew anybody a child he still h*rting, we never see that anymore.
good
Never
> see kids there except last october. She said she wants others inside to
> maybe snitch what they can about his stuff so she can "get his *ss
> thrown back in prison" and leave us alone once and for all.
:)
>
> Somehow she knows his name now. She said it once, and we freaked out.
> She said sorry. She said she didn't know not to use his name. We h*te
> hearing it.
yeah. that means there are others who know about him.
>
>>>> yeah.
>>> Sorry, someone else finished the post. :/
>> heh, i saw that. it's okay. figured maybe someone else mighta felt safe
>> to talk? and that's a good thing. we thought of asking for a name, but
>> we didn't want to frighten.
>
> Is ok. We've all been posting here as ubiquity last couple weeks.
noticed.
Others
> names were being posted in other groups, thought this would be safer for
> right now. Hope that's ok.
of course! need to do what you need to do to be safe. do not need
insiders' names posted on other groups; that is just ick.
>
>>>> they're just trying to scare you. think about this -- if they were
>>>> right, they wouldn't ever have to tell you how bad some things would be
>>>> for you. they told you over and over so you'd believe it so you'd never
>>>> test it.
>>> We're scared.
>> i know it. they put lots of big dark fears in you. and you know, some of
>> the things you're most scared to do are exactly the healing things to
>> do. they made it so it would feel really scary to move forward.
>> so maybe in a way, the fear is a sign that you're moving forward?
>
> Don't know. Kind of confusing.
yeah, we could feel ourselves getting kinda convoluted there. :)
>
>> with time, you'll learn to do things that you're scared to do, like stay
>> home from the r*tuals and tell your story. those are good things, and
>> they will help make you free.
>
> T said so too.
>
>> but you do have to make sure you tell the right people-- think asd is
>> safe and think the current t. is too. but you gotta test those things
>> out and make sure they're true.
>
> Ok, yeah, t said be very cautious who we tell right now. T said maybe
> good for some of us not to be so open with new people right now. (Not
> here, but offline)
yes, very very good idea. there are likely folks trying to get info from
you right now and get you to spill maybe about the t.
>
>>> They still say turn them off on the signs though. She was remembering
>>> them letting us call long distance on a cell phone there before.
>> ah.
>
> That was last big big OD. They said it was ok there. Said all their
> equiptment runs on a different frequency now. Now they keep saying that
> because people wouldn't get off their phones when docs came in to talk
> to them and stuff.
heh
>
>>> We were walking past a parade one day and there were anti-gay protesters
>>> on the side shouting at people. They were from montana. Not sure why
>>> they'd drive to Salt Lake to protest that on Pioneer Day. :/
>> heh. yeah, no kidding.
>
> Thought it was a little funny because as we walked past, one was saying
> to the other "I think the l*rd has given me the loudest voice this day."
> when it seemed to us they were being very much ignored by everyone
> there.
LOL
hee hee hee
that's great satire right there
>
jill
The agency t'pist was wrong about that as well. Being dependent on the
waiting room might be a very good idea at certain times in a client's
healing journey. I, for example, was very dependent on driving by
my t'pist's office at one point and just looking at it. I could sit
in my car and just look at the building. I don't even know if the
t'pist was in there or not but just being there reminded me _someone_
knew I existed and was helping me. I'm sure your agency t'pist
wouldn't have liked that I did this but she would have been wrong.
What about the clubhouse? Anyway you can just go there and sit
someplace out of the way? Even if you didn't interact or help or
whatever, just to have a place to be would help.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
ji...@tuells.org
emerging butterfly
> ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>> ubiquity wrote:
>>>> Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information.
>>> yeah, can understand that fear. don't think she was doing that.
>>
>> Ok. Glad. Wish we could get our file there removed though. Oh yeah, is
>> only six more days and we'll be off civil commitment again! :) We made
>> it seven months with no inpatient stays. :)
>
> :)
>>
>>>> Miss her though. :(
>>> of course!
>>> she was nice before she was dismissive, and that's got to feel like a
>>> horrible set up or like you were bad. you weren't bad though. she
>>> just didn't understand.
>>> still doesn't make her words and behavior right though.
>>
>> Felt really bad because she had promised things, and then changed
>> them. When we asked why, she said is because relationships change, and
>> we thought it was important to always keep promises.
>
> we agree, promises are important. wasn't good of her to go back on them.
one caveat -- it is usually important to keep promises, and she should
have -- but i don't want any of the littles in ubiquity thinking that
they should keep promises to the bad people that they made under duress.
that is a whole different issue, and those promises are good ones to break.
Shiyiya
is good point. promises are good to keep unless you were forced to make
them or if keeping them would be bad for you.
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>> ubiquity wrote:
>>>> Some are afraid she just wanted to pass information.
>>> yeah, can understand that fear. don't think she was doing that.
>>
>> Ok. Glad. Wish we could get our file there removed though. Oh yeah, is
>> only six more days and we'll be off civil commitment again! :) We made
>> it seven months with no inpatient stays. :)
>
> yay you!
> :)
Yes, and hopefully they don't send us another review notice, and it will
just end.
>>> of course!
>>> she was nice before she was dismissive, and that's got to feel like a
>>> horrible set up or like you were bad. you weren't bad though. she just
>>> didn't understand.
>>> still doesn't make her words and behavior right though.
>>
>> Felt really bad because she had promised things, and then changed them.
>> When we asked why, she said is because relationships change, and we
>> thought it was important to always keep promises.
>
> that was a bullsh*t answer she gave you, condescending.
Like how she said she was teaching us about relationships by
intentionally not calling us back when we missed those two appointments.
>>> nope. have you gotten p*nished for them telling?
>>
>> Don't know. We've been p*nished for other kids bad things before, but
>> don't know this specifically.
>
> okay
Is sad.
>>> you know why you were told that would happen? cuz if you told, the bad
>>> people might get p*nished and they didn't want that. not you, them.
>>
>> T asked questions don't remember this week or last week, about if we
>> knew anybody a child he still h*rting, we never see that anymore.
>
> good
Yeah.
>> Never see kids there except last october. She said she wants others
>> inside to maybe snitch what they can about his stuff so she can "get
>> his *ss thrown back in prison" and leave us alone once and for all.
>
> :)
It was scary, but it was ok. Scary to us when people talk that way about
him.
>> Somehow she knows his name now. She said it once, and we freaked out.
>> She said sorry. She said she didn't know not to use his name. We h*te
>> hearing it.
>
> yeah. that means there are others who know about him.
Ok.
>>> heh, i saw that. it's okay. figured maybe someone else mighta felt safe
>>> to talk? and that's a good thing. we thought of asking for a name, but
>>> we didn't want to frighten.
>>
>> Is ok. We've all been posting here as ubiquity last couple weeks.
>
> noticed.
Ok.
>> Others names were being posted in other groups, thought this would be
>> safer for right now. Hope that's ok.
>
> of course! need to do what you need to do to be safe. do not need
> insiders' names posted on other groups; that is just ick.
Yeah, part of why we left for that little bit. Someone was asking in
another group right before "How is Wendy?" In a group where we'd rather
they didn't know.
>>> i know it. they put lots of big dark fears in you. and you know, some of
>>> the things you're most scared to do are exactly the healing things to
>>> do. they made it so it would feel really scary to move forward.
>>> so maybe in a way, the fear is a sign that you're moving forward?
>>
>> Don't know. Kind of confusing.
>
> yeah, we could feel ourselves getting kinda convoluted there. :)
:)
>>> but you do have to make sure you tell the right people-- think asd is
>>> safe and think the current t. is too. but you gotta test those things
>>> out and make sure they're true.
>>
>> Ok, yeah, t said be very cautious who we tell right now. T said maybe
>> good for some of us not to be so open with new people right now. (Not
>> here, but offline)
>
> yes, very very good idea. there are likely folks trying to get info from
> you right now and get you to spill maybe about the t.
Could be. Amber was telling t about talking to someone outside the front
of the building who wanted to see our tv. T said probably not good to
let people in.
>> That was last big big OD. They said it was ok there. Said all their
>> equiptment runs on a different frequency now. Now they keep saying that
>> because people wouldn't get off their phones when docs came in to talk
>> to them and stuff.
>
> heh
Kind of like pharmacies saying they can't look some stuff up because of
HIPAA even though what they're claiming isn't in HIPAA, they just don't
want to go through the effort of doing it. (We know. We've had big HIPAA
compliance training and lots of refresher courses. It was a monthly
mandatory for work, and was an easy ConEd to stay licensed)
>> Thought it was a little funny because as we walked past, one was saying
>> to the other "I think the l*rd has given me the loudest voice this day."
>> when it seemed to us they were being very much ignored by everyone
>> there.
>
> LOL
> hee hee hee
> that's great satire right there
We don't even remember what their signs said, so we didn't even pay much
attention to it.
--
-ubiquity
ubiquity
> In article <slrnhcgcdi....@asus.zero>,
> ubiquity <ubiq...@cryptobug.com> wrote:
>>Ok. Tried doing that before at the agency, but agency thrpst told us to
>>stop because she didn't want us dependant on the waiting room. :/
>
> waiting room might be a very good idea at certain times in a client's
> healing journey. I, for example, was very dependent on driving by
> my t'pist's office at one point and just looking at it. I could sit
> in my car and just look at the building. I don't even know if the
> t'pist was in there or not but just being there reminded me _someone_
> knew I existed and was helping me. I'm sure your agency t'pist
> wouldn't have liked that I did this but she would have been wrong.
Used to ride past on the bus, and look at the window of her office to
know she still worked there.
> What about the clubhouse? Anyway you can just go there and sit
> someplace out of the way? Even if you didn't interact or help or
> whatever, just to have a place to be would help.
Can't with the kids, and we always feel like we're in the way or a
burden if we aren't doing something there. They don't like us there so
much. Isn't a place for people who aren't doing well. Is why they ask us
to go for a walk with a staff when a fundraising tour comes through. We
don't make a good image of someone who is improving.
--
-ubiquity
ubiquity
>> we agree, promises are important. wasn't good of her to go back on them.
>
> one caveat -- it is usually important to keep promises, and she should
> have -- but i don't want any of the littles in ubiquity thinking that
> they should keep promises to the bad people that they made under duress.
> that is a whole different issue, and those promises are good ones to break.
We don't know which is which.
--
-ubiquity
astri
> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>
>>> and we have stayed on guard there for the most part. Still a bit
>>> worries she knew that doc's name, but we aren't supposed to talk
>>> about that so we never asked how she knows.
>>
>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with
>> lots of people who have been through stuff with some of the same
>> people? she knows from working with them, working with other clients
>> who have been through things like you.
>
> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it.
> If others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his
> name. Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
when people get healed enough, the rules change and they are safe and
they can talk about that stuff.
>>> Something bad would happen if we didn't go.
>>
>> yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up
>> so you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if
>> you didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop
>> going, and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
>
> what if thems right?
they're not
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
astri
> Maybe one of the people who moved to another state and was safe and
> far away healed and depr*grammed enough to be able to tell her?
that's the kind of thing we were thinking of
ubiquity
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>> lots of people who have been through stuff with some of the same
>>> people? she knows from working with them, working with other clients
>>> who have been through things like you.
>>
>> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it.
>> If others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his
>> name. Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
>
> when people get healed enough, the rules change and they are safe and
> they can talk about that stuff.
Why?
>>> yes, know that pr*gram. but it's a lie. the fact is, they set it up
>>> so you *would* go with imaginary fears about what would happen if
>>> you didn't. once you all get strong enough, you'll be able to stop
>>> going, and nothing bad will happen. you have the power now.
>>
>> what if thems right?
>
> they're not
K.
--
-ubiquity
Shiyiya
That is completely ridiculous and unprofessional, not to mention an
*sshole thing to do.
Shiyiya
Promises that will h*rt you to keep or promises that it wasn't your idea
to make, are okay to break
Shiyiya
> On 2009-10-05, astri wrote...
>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, ubiquity wrote:
>>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with
>>>> lots of people who have been through stuff with some of the same
>>>> people? she knows from working with them, working with other clients
>>>> who have been through things like you.
>>> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it.
>>> If others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his
>>> name. Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
>> when people get healed enough, the rules change and they are safe and
>> they can talk about that stuff.
>
> Why?
The bad people can't h*rt them anymore.
astri
> On 2009-10-05, astri wrote...
>>
>> when people get healed enough, the rules change and they are safe
>> and they can talk about that stuff.
>
> Why?
cuz they're no longer stuck in the past
jill
Which is absolutely ironic in my mind! You are definitely improving
and healing. Many (most) of the people who go to places like there
have disorders that really aren't 'fixable', just manageable. When I
worked at that day treatment place that is a lot like the clubhouse
we never talked about 'cure' or 'fixed' but symptom management and
improved daily functioning. You on the other hand will some day be
very much past just thinking of management and daily functioning :)
ubiquity
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2009, ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-05, astri wrote...
>>>
>>> when people get healed enough, the rules change and they are safe
>>> and they can talk about that stuff.
>>
>> Why?
>
> cuz they're no longer stuck in the past
:(
--
-ubiquity
ubiquity
> In article <slrnhcibl4....@asus.zero>,
> ubiquity <ubiq...@cryptobug.com> wrote:
>>Can't with the kids, and we always feel like we're in the way or a
>>burden if we aren't doing something there. They don't like us there so
>>much. Isn't a place for people who aren't doing well. Is why they ask us
>>to go for a walk with a staff when a fundraising tour comes through. We
>>don't make a good image of someone who is improving.
>
> and healing. Many (most) of the people who go to places like there
> have disorders that really aren't 'fixable', just manageable. When I
> worked at that day treatment place that is a lot like the clubhouse
> we never talked about 'cure' or 'fixed' but symptom management and
> improved daily functioning. You on the other hand will some day be
> very much past just thinking of management and daily functioning :)
We just feel so useless there. Especially lately if we've gone. We feel
out of the community, not know what's going on. So we go and sit.
Sometimes a staff will come ask if we'll help them with something.
Usually holepunching or stapling, and they sit with us for a minute, and
then they go do something else and not come back. We usually finish the
job all alone, and then leave because we feel like they just give us
busy work.
and the director said we can't sit on the stairs anymore. Don't have
anywhere that feels safe, so if we have a flashback or panic attack, we
just have to leave. There isn't any place to sit away from people, and
we don't like being asked if we're ok, so we just leave. Last time that
happened, they just drove us home even though we said we would be good
and ok.
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
> ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-05, astri wrote...
>>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2009, ubiquity wrote:
>>>> On 2009-10-04, emerging butterfly wrote...
>>>>> i can tell you how she likely knows. you know how she works with
>>>>> lots of people who have been through stuff with some of the same
>>>>> people? she knows from working with them, working with other clients
>>>>> who have been through things like you.
>>>> Maybe, but not supposed to know his name. We not supposed to say it.
>>>> If others happened like we would, they would know never to tell his
>>>> name. Is bad bad bad bad bad. She wouldn't know it.
>>> when people get healed enough, the rules change and they are safe and
>>> they can talk about that stuff.
>>
>> Why?
>
> The bad people can't h*rt them anymore.
and they know that the bad people can't h*rt them anymore and they take
their power and they say "no!"
emerging butterfly
sounds like they have no idea what to do. :(
>
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> We just feel so useless there. Especially lately if we've gone. We feel
>> out of the community, not know what's going on. So we go and sit.
>> Sometimes a staff will come ask if we'll help them with something.
>> Usually holepunching or stapling, and they sit with us for a minute, and
>> then they go do something else and not come back. We usually finish the
>> job all alone, and then leave because we feel like they just give us
>> busy work.
>>
>> and the director said we can't sit on the stairs anymore. Don't have
>> anywhere that feels safe, so if we have a flashback or panic attack, we
>> just have to leave. There isn't any place to sit away from people, and
>> we don't like being asked if we're ok, so we just leave. Last time that
>> happened, they just drove us home even though we said we would be good
>> and ok.
>
> sounds like they have no idea what to do. :(
We confirmed it with one staff. They aren't supposed to talk to anybody
but me, and they are under orders to get me somewhere else if we have a
crisis because the clubhouse "is not a crisis center", and it's "for
those who are reasonable stable". They "don't want to promote" people
going there for help in a crisis. They had a staff meeting where it was
discussed, we sat in on the meeting. Very awkward to be talked about but
not by name and how it was not their job to sit with us and help get us
present again.
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
that totally utterly and completely sucks.
and with all the work you've done for them.
sometimes people suck. they can be callous and mean and wrong, and it's
worse when it's under the guise of "helping"
>
ubiquity
Think they're glad we haven't been going. No calls or anything other
than the obligatory "reach out" assignments, which when we answer, they
usually aren't paying full enough attention to the phone to hear us say
hello, so we just hang up because it's just talking in the background.
They never came to pick up the things we were donating to the thrift
store there, ended up just putting them in the dumpster. Is ok. We don't
need to go out. We don't need to be somewhere we aren't wanted.
--
-ubiquity
Shiyiya
regrets you don't have somewhere you can go where you are
are wanted here though
ubiquity
> ubiquity wrote:
>> Think they're glad we haven't been going. No calls or anything other
>> than the obligatory "reach out" assignments, which when we answer, they
>> usually aren't paying full enough attention to the phone to hear us say
>> hello, so we just hang up because it's just talking in the background.
>> They never came to pick up the things we were donating to the thrift
>> store there, ended up just putting them in the dumpster. Is ok. We don't
>> need to go out. We don't need to be somewhere we aren't wanted.
>
> regrets you don't have somewhere you can go where you are
>
> are wanted here though
Ok.
--
-ubiquity
jill
It demonstrates the need society has for a place for people like us.
The clubhouse is designed for a certain type of person and if someone
doesn't fit into that mold they aren't welcome. Ok, so where are
people like us welcome?! I know that there are place through vet
admin that could easily handle dissy needs because they have people
with ptsd there, but that's just for veterans.
We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
such a place. None exist :(
ubiquity
> In article <7it95iF...@mid.individual.net>,
> emerging butterfly <emerging....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>that totally utterly and completely sucks.
>>and with all the work you've done for them.
>>sometimes people suck. they can be callous and mean and wrong, and it's
>>worse when it's under the guise of "helping"
We really tried to help, and we really wanted them to adapt to help us,
or even just me, but they didn't care. I wasn't good enough, and they
see any kind of adaptation for one person rather than everybody as
enabling.
Also, when the first day we went there, we asked if service animals came
because we didn't want to join if there were going to be dogs around.
They said they've never had someone bring a service animal, but now
someone does, and we could be ok with that, but that person doesn't
watch it. Just lets it run around the place unattended barking. Scared
us lots. It backed us into a corner. We were so helpless, and nobody
even noticed we needed help.
> It demonstrates the need society has for a place for people like us.
> The clubhouse is designed for a certain type of person and if someone
> doesn't fit into that mold they aren't welcome. Ok, so where are
> people like us welcome?! I know that there are place through vet
> admin that could easily handle dissy needs because they have people
> with ptsd there, but that's just for veterans.
They actually have a pilot program at this clubhouse for vets through
the VA, and we had secretly hoped it would change policy to better help
those with ptsd, but the people who come from the VA with those kind of
troubles rarely return after orientation.
> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
> such a place. None exist :(
We tried looking to. We were just even looking for once a month
peer-lead survivor groups here. Anything, but they don't exist here
anymore. Our t says they did. T said they had some really good ones
north of here, but they were being infiltrated by perps to subtly
disrupt them. So they all disbanded. T says she doesn't even know of
non-public ones here anymore.
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
it's been a periodic dream of mine to have a house for people like us to
just be safe for a bit.
it has a swing on the front porch and safe food and it's welcoming and
people can even stay for a few days when they really really need the
safe place and support.
>
> Rainbow Colors (Jill)
Shiyiya
> On 2009-10-05, jill wrote...
>> In article <7it95iF...@mid.individual.net>,
>> emerging butterfly <emerging....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> that totally utterly and completely sucks.
>>> and with all the work you've done for them.
>>> sometimes people suck. they can be callous and mean and wrong, and it's
>>> worse when it's under the guise of "helping"
>
> We really tried to help, and we really wanted them to adapt to help us,
> or even just me, but they didn't care. I wasn't good enough, and they
> see any kind of adaptation for one person rather than everybody as
> enabling.
Doesn't mean you're not good enough. Means they're not caring enough
about helping everyone who needs it.
>
> Also, when the first day we went there, we asked if service animals came
> because we didn't want to join if there were going to be dogs around.
> They said they've never had someone bring a service animal, but now
> someone does, and we could be ok with that, but that person doesn't
> watch it. Just lets it run around the place unattended barking. Scared
> us lots. It backed us into a corner. We were so helpless, and nobody
> even noticed we needed help.
Yuck yuck yuck.
Shiyiya
Is the kind of thing that's "if I had a million dollars I'd...". Is nice
dream.
emerging butterfly
yes. wish could make it reality.
gathring
> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
> such a place. None exist :(
D and i still talk about setting up such a place, a place for survivors
to meet and talk and do art and just be.
--
paradoxically, only when we can acknowledge how powerless we were are we
actually able to take power appropriately now -- emerging butterfly
ubiquity
> jill wrote:
>
>> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
>> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
>> such a place. None exist :(
>
> D and i still talk about setting up such a place, a place for survivors
> to meet and talk and do art and just be.
Can sit on the stairs?
--
-ubiquity
emerging butterfly
> jill wrote:
>
>> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
>> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
>> such a place. None exist :(
>
> D and i still talk about setting up such a place, a place for survivors
> to meet and talk and do art and just be.
need them all over the country
>
gathring
absolutely, or in one of the rocking chairs, or anywhere you'd like.
gathring
franchises are us?
wolfie of confuzzled
> ubiquity wrote:
>> On 2009-10-06, gathring wrote...
>>> jill wrote:
>>>
>>>> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
>>>> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
>>>> such a place. None exist :(
>>> D and i still talk about setting up such a place, a place for
>>> survivors to meet and talk and do art and just be.
>>
>> Can sit on the stairs?
>>
>
> absolutely, or in one of the rocking chairs, or anywhere you'd like.
>
Emerging Butterfly
i say yes yes! :)
and there's an area for coloring and for lils to play and a swingset
and there is safe food
and there's a place to just be calm and relax
and movies
and all things nice :)
oh, i just put in a waterfall -- hope nobody minds
i love looking at and hearing the *swoosh* of the water
reminds me of something resonant, and bigger than me
something i can trust
wolfie of confuzzled
:)
gathring
there's three or four around here. there may even be one on the side
porch if you're looking for a little quiet.
wolfie of confuzzled
> wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> gathring wrote:
>>> ubiquity wrote:
>>>> On 2009-10-06, gathring wrote...
>>>>> jill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
>>>>>> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
>>>>>> such a place. None exist :(
>>>>> D and i still talk about setting up such a place, a place for
>>>>> survivors to meet and talk and do art and just be.
>>>>
>>>> Can sit on the stairs?
>>>>
>>>
>>> absolutely, or in one of the rocking chairs, or anywhere you'd like.
>>>
>> can we maybe sit on one of the rocking chairs?
>
> there's three or four around here. there may even be one on the side
> porch if you're looking for a little quiet.
>
gathring
there's tea in the kitchen if you want a cup.
wolfie of confuzzled
> wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> gathring wrote:
>>> wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>> gathring wrote:
>>>>> ubiquity wrote:
>>>>>> On 2009-10-06, gathring wrote...
>>>>>>> jill wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need a place where we can just go and be and have contact or no
>>>>>>>> contact or support or just safe silence. I spent years looking for
>>>>>>>> such a place. None exist :(
>>>>>>> D and i still talk about setting up such a place, a place for
>>>>>>> survivors to meet and talk and do art and just be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can sit on the stairs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> absolutely, or in one of the rocking chairs, or anywhere you'd like.
>>>>>
>>>> can we maybe sit on one of the rocking chairs?
>>>
>>> there's three or four around here. there may even be one on the side
>>> porch if you're looking for a little quiet.
>>>
>> k, think I will go around the side
>
> there's tea in the kitchen if you want a cup.
>
gathring
rene's been in the kitchen making bread and jam. would you like some?
wolfie of confuzzled
and quiet
gathring
rene's been in the kitchen making bread and jam. would you like some?
wolfie of confuzzled
think I'm just going to sit here and listen to the wind in the trees
gathring
quiet would be good right now.
gathring
hyper sensitive to noise today. think i need noise canceling headphones.
sigh.
confuzzled
k, there's a quiet space over here
confuzzled
gathring
Thanks. The sound of the wind in the trees is so restful, isn't it?
gathring
nod. sometimes the only cure is the real thing.
confuzzled
yes :)
and the birds too
gathring
think tonight its time for a bonfire. love the crackle of the fire.
might camp out next to it tonight, or at least sit up late.
confuzzled
would be nice.
some warmth and light in the dark
gathring
sounds silly, but when the embers get going, like to watch the little
stories. make up little villages and people and stuff as the embers burn
down. think i might be a bit weird.
confuzzled
dunno. doesn't sound that weird to us (when we were little we had marble
communities. there were families and friends and they were all little
people to us)
guess for us it was always the warmth of fire. could stare into fire and
just focus on that warmth.... and we keep trying to avoid saying that
we'd pretend we weren't alone. so maybe what we getting from the fire
isn't so different?
gathring
maybe not.