attempt number 567 or something...
fuzzy
ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you please
tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us here) just
ignore this post because otherwise they'll be convinced we manipulated
you into replying or some such.
we are stuck in big massive tangles
or more likely we've gone completely nuts
astri
> <deleting again>
>
> ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you please
> tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us here) just
> ignore this post because otherwise they'll be convinced we
> manipulated you into replying or some such.
ack!
we *hate* ignoring posts we want to respond to. we refuse to be
manipulated into ignoring you!
> we are stuck in big massive tangles
> or more likely we've gone completely nuts
tangles are the most likely explanation.
you not nuts.
you having ptsd reaction.
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
fuzzy
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>
>> <deleting again>
>>
>> ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you please
>> tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us here) just
>> ignore this post because otherwise they'll be convinced we
>> manipulated you into replying or some such.
>
> ack!
>
> we *hate* ignoring posts we want to respond to. we refuse to be
> manipulated into ignoring you!
>
to twisty
>> we are stuck in big massive tangles
>> or more likely we've gone completely nuts
>
> tangles are the most likely explanation.
> you not nuts.
> you having ptsd reaction.
>
hope so. hope we not a problem. don't want to be a problem
is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say. would
rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
<sigh>
know we really muddled. know we keep repeating. you sure this isn't
crazy? seems really crazy
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>
>>> <deleting again>
>>>
>>> ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you
>>> please tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us
>>> here) just ignore this post because otherwise they'll be convinced
>>> we manipulated you into replying or some such.
>>
>> ack!
>>
>> we *hate* ignoring posts we want to respond to. we refuse to be
>> manipulated into ignoring you!
>>
> heh. k, someone wants to try to argue with that but that just gets
> way to twisty
heh
>>> we are stuck in big massive tangles
>>> or more likely we've gone completely nuts
>>
>> tangles are the most likely explanation.
>> you not nuts.
>> you having ptsd reaction.
>>
> hope so. hope we not a problem. don't want to be a problem
don't think you're a problem to anyone but yourself
> is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say. would
> rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
>
> <sigh>
> know we really muddled. know we keep repeating. you sure this isn't
> crazy? seems really crazy
don't think is crazy
Juniper
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say. would
> rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
It's not that I have a problem with you being on here. I have a problem
when I get a chance to come here and there isn't much or anything from
you. 'Cause then I worry. But maybe I'm manipulating you to post by
saying I worry if you don't?
Why don't we just post and read rather than tying ourselves into
manipulating and manipulated knots? It would save energy.
Juniper
jill
It is crazy _making_! There is a HUGE difference!!! Many ptsd things
are crazy making, very very few of them are crazy.
Btw, You will note I'm not actually replying to the point of the
actual post so you don't have to feel I have been manipulated in any
way. I'm simply giving you information about what is/isn't crazy.
Therefore, you can assume I still want you in asd cause I'm not
even talking about all of that *grin* as per your request.
(of course I want you here!!!!!! I _like_ you!) but I'm not actually
saying that cause you said I shouldn't say it if I meant it.
*ooh, my head is spinning, see what I mean about crazy _making_*
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>>
>>>> <deleting again>
>>>>
>>>> ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you
>>>> please tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us
>>>> here) just ignore this post because otherwise they'll be convinced
>>>> we manipulated you into replying or some such.
>>>
>>> ack!
>>>
>>> we *hate* ignoring posts we want to respond to. we refuse to be
>>> manipulated into ignoring you!
>>>
>> heh. k, someone wants to try to argue with that but that just gets
>> way to twisty
>
> heh
would be easier if we could all sort of agree on what we want
>
>>>> we are stuck in big massive tangles
>>>> or more likely we've gone completely nuts
>>>
>>> tangles are the most likely explanation.
>>> you not nuts.
>>> you having ptsd reaction.
>>>
>> hope so. hope we not a problem. don't want to be a problem
>
> don't think you're a problem to anyone but yourself
>
:/ we've certainly been a problem to foo. old stuff. <sigh>
*really* been feeling like that lately. like we a problem.
>> is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say. would
>> rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
>>
>> <sigh>
>> know we really muddled. know we keep repeating. you sure this isn't
>> crazy? seems really crazy
>
> don't think is crazy
>
k
Ester of confuzzled
> In article <7b76sbF...@mid.individual.net>,
> fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say. would
>> rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
>
> It's not that I have a problem with you being on here. I have a problem
> when I get a chance to come here and there isn't much or anything from
> you. 'Cause then I worry. But maybe I'm manipulating you to post by
> saying I worry if you don't?
It does get really confusing doesn't it.
>
> Why don't we just post and read rather than tying ourselves into
> manipulating and manipulated knots? It would save energy.
>
Ok, I think everyone but Charlie is willing to try. Oh and I don't want
to say Charlie isn't willing, she's just not doing so great lately.
And we have to say thank you Juniper. We used your letter yesterday. It
was our appointment. It was really hard but we got through it. Oscar
chickened out and left! Next time he gets an attitude about us he should
remember that he took off.
I want to say more but I don't think the others are ready. Things have
been really hard lately.
fuzzy
<sigh> so how do we know we aren't crazy?
>
> Btw, You will note I'm not actually replying to the point of the
> actual post so you don't have to feel I have been manipulated in any
> way. I'm simply giving you information about what is/isn't crazy.
>
> Therefore, you can assume I still want you in asd cause I'm not
> even talking about all of that *grin* as per your request.
>
heh, umm... isn't this sort of a reply :P
> (of course I want you here!!!!!! I _like_ you!) but I'm not actually
> saying that cause you said I shouldn't say it if I meant it.
> *ooh, my head is spinning, see what I mean about crazy _making_*
>
you're making my head spin too.
(thanks)
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>> astri wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <deleting again>
>>>>>
>>>>> ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you
>>>>> please tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us
>>>>> here) just ignore this post because otherwise they'll be
>>>>> convinced we manipulated you into replying or some such.
>>>>
>>>> ack!
>>>>
>>>> we *hate* ignoring posts we want to respond to. we refuse to be
>>>> manipulated into ignoring you!
>>>>
>>> heh. k, someone wants to try to argue with that but that just gets
>>> way to twisty
>>
>> heh
>
> would be easier if we could all sort of agree on what we want
certainly would be!!!!
(at least if they agreed with *me*)
>>>>> we are stuck in big massive tangles
>>>>> or more likely we've gone completely nuts
>>>>
>>>> tangles are the most likely explanation.
>>>> you not nuts.
>>>> you having ptsd reaction.
>>>>
>>> hope so. hope we not a problem. don't want to be a problem
>>
>> don't think you're a problem to anyone but yourself
>>
> :/ we've certainly been a problem to foo. old stuff. <sigh>
> *really* been feeling like that lately. like we a problem.
old stuff
not now stuff
>>> is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say.
>>> would rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
>>>
>>> <sigh>
>>> know we really muddled. know we keep repeating. you sure this isn't
>>> crazy? seems really crazy
>>
>> don't think is crazy
>>
> k
k
jill
You aren't. Your words here hang together and flow logically in a way
that people who are out of touch with reality can't do. You _feel_
crazy and some of the stuff floating around in your head is not
connected to reality in a logical way so _it_ is crazy (the ptsd
stuff) but you, personally, are NOT crazy. That is how you know, cause
when you do external reality testing, you get a ping that says 'nope,
not crazy'. We did those tests over and over and over for years and
years and years in asd and with our t'pist. Even at our 'craziest'
we weren't crazy :P
>> Btw, You will note I'm not actually replying to the point of the
>> actual post so you don't have to feel I have been manipulated in any
>> way. I'm simply giving you information about what is/isn't crazy.
>>
>> Therefore, you can assume I still want you in asd cause I'm not
>> even talking about all of that *grin* as per your request.
>>
>heh, umm... isn't this sort of a reply :P
Nope *innocent yet diabolical grin*
>> (of course I want you here!!!!!! I _like_ you!) but I'm not actually
>> saying that cause you said I shouldn't say it if I meant it.
>> *ooh, my head is spinning, see what I mean about crazy _making_*
>>
>you're making my head spin too.
>(thanks)
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
Juniper
I'm glad my letter could help.
> I want to say more but I don't think the others are ready. Things have
> been really hard lately.
OK. Take care of yourself!
Juniper
fuzzy
>>> Btw, You will note I'm not actually replying to the point of the
>>> actual post so you don't have to feel I have been manipulated in any
>>> way. I'm simply giving you information about what is/isn't crazy.
>>>
>>> Therefore, you can assume I still want you in asd cause I'm not
>>> even talking about all of that *grin* as per your request.
>>>
>> heh, umm... isn't this sort of a reply :P
>
> Nope *innocent yet diabolical grin*
>
hmmm...
<fierce wolverine tries to look skeptical>
Juniper
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <fierce wolverine tries to look skeptical>
Careful. Your face may freeze that way.
J.
Ester of confuzzled
So I'm going to say some stuff and hopefully the others can cope. I
guess I'll spoiler
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
e
d
1
2
4
5
6
7
So we had the doctors appointment. We gave her the letter and she seemed
nice. They explained things really well. A couple times we needed her to
explain more then once because it was really hard to think.
The pap smear part hurt. It was the thing she used, I can't remember the
name. And Oscar left! He said he'd help but it hurt and we were
wondering if it was supposed to hurt and I wanted to ask or say
something but I was too scared so then we just went away from the body.
Are we bad because I didn't say anything?
And that night we freaked out big time. Because the way the body felt,
seemed familiar. It all gets so muddled up. It might be easier if we
could sort out what did happen so that tings wouldn't get so confused
and scary?
On the bright side, she says we don't actually have to experience
periods!!! We are going to go onto the birth control pill in a
"continuous cycle" so we don't get it. That's fantastic
Juniper
I think they use a brush of some kind to take some cells for analysis.
> And Oscar left! He said he'd help but it hurt and we were
> wondering if it was supposed to hurt and I wanted to ask or say
> something but I was too scared so then we just went away from the body.
> Are we bad because I didn't say anything?
Absolutely not! You did what you needed to to get through OK. That is
not bad.
> And that night we freaked out big time. Because the way the body felt,
> seemed familiar. It all gets so muddled up. It might be easier if we
> could sort out what did happen so that tings wouldn't get so confused
> and scary?
I think I know what you mean. I'm very sure stuff happened, but I don't
have the facts, so sometimes when I feel really weird I don't have
anything solid to nail it to. Makes me feel crazy sometimes. I'm sorry
you have to deal with that.
> On the bright side, she says we don't actually have to experience
> periods!!! We are going to go onto the birth control pill in a
> "continuous cycle" so we don't get it. That's fantastic
Cool! Have you read up on that and determined if it's really safe? One
thing I've learned from being diagnosed with diabetes is that too often
MDs just prescribe what they're been told about and they don't always
have time to really check stuff out and know if it's OK. After all,
they were telling us to take hormones for a long time. BC pills aren't
good to take after 40 or so, or if you smoke or have high blood
pressure. Taking hormones in general is bad for the heart and cancer
risk, etc. I just want you around a long time to talk to here!
Now I really do have to go to bed.
Night!
Juniper
astri
> but maybe we just really good at hiding that we crazy?
why would it be easier if you crazy?
astri
> So I'm going to say some stuff and hopefully the others can cope. I
> guess I'll spoiler
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> e
> d
> 1
> 2
> 4
> 5
> 6
> 7
>
> So we had the doctors appointment. We gave her the letter and she
> seemed nice. They explained things really well. A couple times we
> needed her to explain more then once because it was really hard to
> think.
you were brave
> The pap smear part hurt. It was the thing she used, I can't remember
> the name. And Oscar left! He said he'd help but it hurt and we were
> wondering if it was supposed to hurt and I wanted to ask or say
> something but I was too scared so then we just went away from the
> body. Are we bad because I didn't say anything?
not bad
> And that night we freaked out big time. Because the way the body
> felt, seemed familiar. It all gets so muddled up. It might be easier
> if we could sort out what did happen so that tings wouldn't get so
> confused and scary?
think so
> On the bright side, she says we don't actually have to experience
> periods!!! We are going to go onto the birth control pill in a
> "continuous cycle" so we don't get it. That's fantastic
not need it ever?
wolfie of confuzzled
we can take sleeping med again? I dunno
We've got the no delete rule on (I hope)
I/we still think that we post too much. At least of the "me" posts. Or
maybe that's not even quite right. I don't know. :/
we are doing it again. Go go go. As long as we keep moving we don't have
to think or feel. If we exhaust the body and it's all sore that sort of
drowns out everything else. yet earlier we were thinking about how long
we've been in a rough patch and that it's been too long. How do those
two things go together?
is this really doing the work? it seems so incredibly messy.
someone... someone wants to say we aren't...
caught ourself deleting. this deleting thing is getting exhausting. just
come and write your own posts.
t has been asking us about walls and why we aren't comfortable talking
about certain things with him. we sent him an email about a lot of stuff
but we talked about talking. we told him we are afraid that what we say
will be perceived as an invitation. an invitation to criticize but even
more sometimes an invitation to s*xualize. that's what we learned
growing up.
oh, now someone wants to delete this entire post. guess that's enough
for now
somehow I thought writing might make us be ready to go bed but now we
feel bad... but then maybe that's sort of the point? we actually feeling
something now instead of keeping it all away?
astri
> I thought we were going to bed but I guess that didn't work out.
> Maybe we can take sleeping med again? I dunno
sigh
> We've got the no delete rule on (I hope)
>
> I/we still think that we post too much. At least of the "me" posts.
> Or maybe that's not even quite right. I don't know. :/
disagree about too much
think not enough
> we are doing it again. Go go go. As long as we keep moving we don't
> have to think or feel. If we exhaust the body and it's all sore that
> sort of drowns out everything else. yet earlier we were thinking
> about how long we've been in a rough patch and that it's been too
> long. How do those two things go together?
understand that!
> is this really doing the work? it seems so incredibly messy.
*is* messy
> someone... someone wants to say we aren't...
>
> caught ourself deleting. this deleting thing is getting exhausting.
> just come and write your own posts.
yeah
> t has been asking us about walls and why we aren't comfortable
> talking about certain things with him. we sent him an email about a
> lot of stuff but we talked about talking. we told him we are afraid
> that what we say will be perceived as an invitation. an invitation to
> criticize but even more sometimes an invitation to s*xualize. that's
> what we learned growing up.
:(
> oh, now someone wants to delete this entire post. guess that's enough
> for now
glad you didn't delete
> somehow I thought writing might make us be ready to go bed but now we
> feel bad... but then maybe that's sort of the point? we actually
> feeling something now instead of keeping it all away?
understand
jill
Ok, so just keep doing that and you will eventually habituate yourself
into no longer being crazy *grin*
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
fuzzy
fuzzy
> walls again
ok, but didn't we say walls were sort of then stuff? we were definitely
in then stuff earlier so that would make sense.
so then how do we get out?
and we've been thinking about what puddles and jill have been talking
about. maybe if we could just let the feelings happen we wouldn't be so
stuck? we trying so hard to not feel and life hasn't been great lately.
maybe we just need to feel the then stuff?
except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we don't
want to overwhelm here
like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes. that's
getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably phrased
differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't find that post
now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking about it. maybe
because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if we are crazy, that
means we are hopeless and then we don't have to try to deal
and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why aren't
we doing that this time?
and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts that
are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
<sigh>
really seem to be stuck. don't know how to get out of this
fuzzy
heh, you got way more arguments then we do
think maybe we are stuck? we supposed to be struggling this much?
astri
> walls again
hi
have windoows
astri
> ok, but didn't we say walls were sort of then stuff? we were
> definitely in then stuff earlier so that would make sense.
>
> so then how do we get out?
can start by peeking out window?
(maybe like what you're doing here)
> and we've been thinking about what puddles and jill have been talking
> about. maybe if we could just let the feelings happen we wouldn't be
> so stuck? we trying so hard to not feel and life hasn't been great
> lately. maybe we just need to feel the then stuff?
think trick is feeling it without getting lost in it
think that requires help
here or t
or both
> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we don't
> want to overwhelm here
don't think you can overwhelm here
is many folks here
everyone can be here as they are able
everyone can respond as they are able
that makes here impossible to overwhelm
> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
but you did and it was right and good
> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes. that's
> getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
you not crazy
you just not all on same page
> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably phrased
> differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't find that
> post now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking about it.
> maybe because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if we are
> crazy, that means we are hopeless and then we don't have to try to
> deal
asked what would be safer about being crazy
guess the fantasy is that it would be easier?
but certainly not less painful
> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why
> aren't we doing that this time?
then keeps getting in the way?
got harder to push it behind walls
> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts
> that are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
doubt that would happen
hasn't happened yet in over a year
> <sigh>
>
> really seem to be stuck. don't know how to get out of this
keep working at it
jill
That's cause I went through this already. I already _did_ 'I am crazy'
so I can share what I learned with you :)
Yeah, you might be stuck. I dunno how much you are supposed to be
struggling so I don't know if you've hit the limit yet. I think you
can be stuck without having hit the limit though.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
jill
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>walls again
Bummer. Ok, I'll just sit by the wall in the shade and drink some iced
tea. Walls are good at making shade :) It's about 95 here today so
shade is good.
Rainbow Colors (Jill; book, iced tea, and laptop. I'm set)
jill
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>fuzzy wrote:
>> walls again
>
>ok, but didn't we say walls were sort of then stuff? we were definitely
>in then stuff earlier so that would make sense.
>
>so then how do we get out?
Sometimes you don't get out as much as you look at why you are in.
Rather than fighting to not be where you are, deal with where you
are _while_ you are there.
>and we've been thinking about what puddles and jill have been talking
>about. maybe if we could just let the feelings happen we wouldn't be so
>stuck? we trying so hard to not feel and life hasn't been great lately.
>maybe we just need to feel the then stuff?
Yeah, or maybe you need to focus on now stuff more. Like, I can think
about then stuff and get all mad and sad or I can think about now
stuff and feel happy and relaxed. Guess which one I choose to focus
on? *grin* Now I get to choose to pick and sometimes I spend time on
the then stuff just to make sure it doesn't build up, but most of the
time I don't bother with it (not stuffing it, just sort of not giving
it energy and attention cause it's not worth it) and it just is.
I was amazed at how much now stuff there was to deal with! Like
relationship with the SO, job stuff, friend stuff, asd stuff, etc.
All of that has feelings connected to it and you gotta let _those_
feelings happen too! Heck, even stuff like noticing that the piece of
chocolate I just ate tasted good and I enjoyed it is a feeling I have
to let happen!
>except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we don't
>want to overwhelm here
>
>like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
So, good job posting then :) Breaking an old habit and trying
something different to see how it works. Cool.
>and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes. that's
>getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
Nope, not crazy. Just stuck in crazy making feelings and reactions.
One way _we_ stopped deleting was to post little posts without reading
them or thinking about them. Like one/two lines, just to get a post
out there. Sometimes they were about really lame things :)
>think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably phrased
>differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't find that post
>now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking about it. maybe
>because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if we are crazy, that
>means we are hopeless and then we don't have to try to deal
Yep, being crazy is an amazing crutch! Still doesn't make you crazy
though.
I remember being inpt and thinking how simple life would be if I would
just go totally whacked out nutz and stay inpt forever. I still think
back on that idea periodically to decide if maybe _now_ I would rather
go that route...
>and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why aren't
>we doing that this time?
Cause you are out of your comfort zone abit further than normal? In
order to heal and grow a person needs to try new things and needs to
take some risks. That is a big scary thing to do! If you take a
slightly bigger risk than normal you get further away from what you
are used to and that can make feelings get a bit larger than you are
comfortable with in the moment.
>and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts that
>are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
I am officially NOT tired of you, at all. I am officially interested
in reading your stuff. If necessary I will state this even more
directly and clearly :)
><sigh>
>
>really seem to be stuck. don't know how to get out of this
Just let yourself be where you are and be mindful of being in the now
with the stuckness. I know that sounds odd but it really works.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
jill
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>
>> walls again
>
>hi
>
>have windoows
>
>-- astri
ROTFL
I don't do windows. I have text based editing. Will that help?
*snicker*
I also own power tools. Maybe we can just sawzall a door.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
Juniper
ji...@tuells.org (jill) wrote:
When this "walls" discussion started, my first thought was "wallpaper!"
but I thought it might be disrespectful to inject a note of levity.
However, since y'all started it.... wallpaper?
Juniper
fuzzy
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>
>> ok, but didn't we say walls were sort of then stuff? we were
>> definitely in then stuff earlier so that would make sense.
>>
>> so then how do we get out?
>
> can start by peeking out window?
> (maybe like what you're doing here)
>
>> and we've been thinking about what puddles and jill have been talking
>> about. maybe if we could just let the feelings happen we wouldn't be
>> so stuck? we trying so hard to not feel and life hasn't been great
>> lately. maybe we just need to feel the then stuff?
>
> think trick is feeling it without getting lost in it
> think that requires help
> here or t
> or both
>
ok, think we still doing the all or nothing thing. deep behind walls or
too much.
maybe need to think more about what t said in last session
>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we don't
>> want to overwhelm here
>
> don't think you can overwhelm here
> is many folks here
> everyone can be here as they are able
> everyone can respond as they are able
> that makes here impossible to overwhelm
>
ok
>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>
> but you did and it was right and good
>
think so?
>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes. that's
>> getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>
> you not crazy
> you just not all on same page
>
<sigh>
we started talking inside today
>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably phrased
>> differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't find that
>> post now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking about it.
>> maybe because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if we are
>> crazy, that means we are hopeless and then we don't have to try to
>> deal
>
> asked what would be safer about being crazy
> guess the fantasy is that it would be easier?
> but certainly not less painful
>
is it wrong to want easier?
>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why
>> aren't we doing that this time?
>
> then keeps getting in the way?
> got harder to push it behind walls
>
think it's harder to push it behind walls.
not real chant doesn't work anymore. we know you said it didn't ever
work but it seemed like it did.
>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts
>> that are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>
> doubt that would happen
> hasn't happened yet in over a year
>
but maybe we will end up being more needy now. seems like maybe we
different now
>> <sigh>
>>
>> really seem to be stuck. don't know how to get out of this
>
> keep working at it
>
k
we just marked tons of posts as read. posts we kept thinking we should
get back to. maybe will make it a bit easier to be here
fuzzy
> In article <7bg274F...@mid.individual.net>,
> fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jill wrote:
>>> In article <7bd99cF...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
k
fuzzy
:)
k, we drinking decaf ice tea right now. with some lemon
Emerging Butterfly
> astri wrote:
> > On Fri, 3 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>
> >> <deleting again>
>
> >> ok, how about this. if someone doesn't want us here could you please
> >> tell us. if you don't mind us here (or actually want us here) just
> >> ignore this post because otherwise they'll be convinced we
> >> manipulated you into replying or some such.
>
> > ack!
>
> > we *hate* ignoring posts we want to respond to. we refuse to be
> > manipulated into ignoring you!
>
> heh. k, someone wants to try to argue with that but that just gets way
> to twisty
>
> >> we are stuck in big massive tangles
> >> or more likely we've gone completely nuts
>
> > tangles are the most likely explanation.
> > you not nuts.
> > you having ptsd reaction.
>
> hope so. hope we not a problem. don't want to be a problem
>
> is still ok if someone else on asd thinks we a problem to say. would
> rather know. don't want to be some place we not wanted.
>
> <sigh>
> crazy? seems really crazy
not crazy. is complex trauma reaction i think they call it. it feels
nutz but it's nutz someone else put on you to make you get in these
tangles. you're not nutz. you got nutz messages.
we not wanted lots of places. we know that. we not wanted lots and
lots it seems.
but we do believe we're wanted here.
Emerging Butterfly
> In article <7b85efF22f9d...@mid.individual.net>,> >> In article <7b76sbF2051c...@mid.individual.net>,
are we crazy?
fuzzy
> In article <7bg092F...@mid.individual.net>,
> fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> fuzzy wrote:
>>> walls again
>> ok, but didn't we say walls were sort of then stuff? we were definitely
>> in then stuff earlier so that would make sense.
>>
>> so then how do we get out?
>
> Sometimes you don't get out as much as you look at why you are in.
> Rather than fighting to not be where you are, deal with where you
> are _while_ you are there.
<sigh> is like something t used to say to us maybe. how we trying to
make sure there won't be another time before we've really dealt with
this time. (k, we rephrased this to be more general in case puddle reads)
hmm...
>
>> and we've been thinking about what puddles and jill have been talking
>> about. maybe if we could just let the feelings happen we wouldn't be so
>> stuck? we trying so hard to not feel and life hasn't been great lately.
>> maybe we just need to feel the then stuff?
>
> Yeah, or maybe you need to focus on now stuff more. Like, I can think
> about then stuff and get all mad and sad or I can think about now
> stuff and feel happy and relaxed. Guess which one I choose to focus
> on? *grin* Now I get to choose to pick and sometimes I spend time on
> the then stuff just to make sure it doesn't build up, but most of the
> time I don't bother with it (not stuffing it, just sort of not giving
> it energy and attention cause it's not worth it) and it just is.
>
k. is where we always get tangled. trying really hard to understand.
because seems like lots of time the message is to focus on now and be
happy and that thinking/feeling then stuff is bad or wallowing.
we been trying to be now. trying really hard to not think about then. is
what we mean about go go go, because if we keep going and busy and
immersed in now then we can make then go away
and that's where we get really confused because seems like we not
supposed to be focusing too much on then and try to be in now but we not
supposed to make stuff go away
> I was amazed at how much now stuff there was to deal with! Like
> relationship with the SO, job stuff, friend stuff, asd stuff, etc.
> All of that has feelings connected to it and you gotta let _those_
> feelings happen too! Heck, even stuff like noticing that the piece of
> chocolate I just ate tasted good and I enjoyed it is a feeling I have
> to let happen!
>
lots of now stuff. now stuff kind of overwhelming right now too.
>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we don't
>> want to overwhelm here
>>
>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>
> So, good job posting then :) Breaking an old habit and trying
> something different to see how it works. Cool.
>
<sigh> k
but sometimes we post ltos and lots so maybe the other stuff we said is
drama? maybe we just doing the same old thing we always do?
>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes. that's
>> getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>
> Nope, not crazy. Just stuck in crazy making feelings and reactions.
>
:/
> One way _we_ stopped deleting was to post little posts without reading
> them or thinking about them. Like one/two lines, just to get a post
> out there. Sometimes they were about really lame things :)
>
k. maybe we try that sometime.
>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably phrased
>> differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't find that post
>> now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking about it. maybe
>> because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if we are crazy, that
>> means we are hopeless and then we don't have to try to deal
>
> Yep, being crazy is an amazing crutch! Still doesn't make you crazy
> though.
>
hmm..
> I remember being inpt and thinking how simple life would be if I would
> just go totally whacked out nutz and stay inpt forever. I still think
> back on that idea periodically to decide if maybe _now_ I would rather
> go that route...
>
can't imagine you going that way
>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why aren't
>> we doing that this time?
>
> Cause you are out of your comfort zone abit further than normal? In
> order to heal and grow a person needs to try new things and needs to
> take some risks. That is a big scary thing to do! If you take a
> slightly bigger risk than normal you get further away from what you
> are used to and that can make feelings get a bit larger than you are
> comfortable with in the moment.
>
oh. maybe we doing that?
is more crazy stuff because seems like maybe we made some big
changes/progress/whatever but then it seems like we stuck. can't be both
at the same time
>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts that
>> are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>
> I am officially NOT tired of you, at all. I am officially interested
> in reading your stuff. If necessary I will state this even more
> directly and clearly :)
>
heh, how could you say that more directly and clearly??? nevermind, we
got it!
you make us laugh
fuzzy
think you can almost always have levity with us. we don't take it as
disrespect
and I don't want a door yet cuz don't want anyone to sneak in :P
but wallpaper... hmm... maybe I should decorate the walls with
wallpaper? hmm...what kind of wallpaper would we use?
but things that are sticky tend to stick to us and not what they
supposed to stick too. we have a hard enough time with saran wrap and
duck tape so somebody else gotta put up the wall paper
jill
But in order for this to really work you have to ALSO deal with the
past stuff. It doesn't work to just stuff it away and ignore it and
ONLY focus on the present. You have to let the past stuff out and look
at it and let it be felt, just don't spend 24/7 doing that.
One thing we did in t'py was to do hard work and then stop at a place
on the way home and look at trees and smell the flowers and look at
the sky and just be in nature. It was a balance of then and now.
>we been trying to be now. trying really hard to not think about then. is
>what we mean about go go go, because if we keep going and busy and
>immersed in now then we can make then go away
See, that is stuffing the past and ignoring it. The past stuff won't
go away. It will hide. Then it will be stuck inside and there will be
side effects. You have to learn how to take it out when you want it
out. Process, look at, feel, then put it away for later and go back to
focusing on the present until later.
>and that's where we get really confused because seems like we not
>supposed to be focusing too much on then and try to be in now but we not
>supposed to make stuff go away
Yep, it's a balancing act. Think of a little kid. You want the kid to
learn to be silly and goofy and happy but when it's time to sit at the
table and eat the silly, goofy stuff has to tone down or there will be
food on the ceiling. Adults can do this: one minute you are singing
and running around and being silly with the toddler and the next
minute you are scooping out mac and cheese and pouring milk and all
calmed down. Meanwhile the toddler is flinging peas at the cat and
screeching like a banshee.
>> I was amazed at how much now stuff there was to deal with! Like
>> relationship with the SO, job stuff, friend stuff, asd stuff, etc.
>> All of that has feelings connected to it and you gotta let _those_
>> feelings happen too! Heck, even stuff like noticing that the piece of
>> chocolate I just ate tasted good and I enjoyed it is a feeling I have
>> to let happen!
>>
>lots of now stuff. now stuff kind of overwhelming right now too.
That makes it doubly tough. If you want a break from the past and you
turn to the present, the least the present could do is be a calming
oasis. If _now_ is a whacked out as then, no wonder it's tough!
>>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we don't
>>> want to overwhelm here
>>>
>>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>>
>> So, good job posting then :) Breaking an old habit and trying
>> something different to see how it works. Cool.
>>
><sigh> k
>
>but sometimes we post ltos and lots so maybe the other stuff we said is
>drama? maybe we just doing the same old thing we always do?
Nope.
>>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes. that's
>>> getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>>
>> Nope, not crazy. Just stuck in crazy making feelings and reactions.
>>
>:/
>
>> One way _we_ stopped deleting was to post little posts without reading
>> them or thinking about them. Like one/two lines, just to get a post
>> out there. Sometimes they were about really lame things :)
>>
>k. maybe we try that sometime.
>
>>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably phrased
>>> differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't find that post
>>> now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking about it. maybe
>>> because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if we are crazy, that
>>> means we are hopeless and then we don't have to try to deal
>>
>> Yep, being crazy is an amazing crutch! Still doesn't make you crazy
>> though.
>>
>hmm..
>
>> I remember being inpt and thinking how simple life would be if I would
>> just go totally whacked out nutz and stay inpt forever. I still think
>> back on that idea periodically to decide if maybe _now_ I would rather
>> go that route...
>>
>can't imagine you going that way
In my dreams it would be such a good idea though *wry grin*
>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why aren't
>>> we doing that this time?
>>
>> Cause you are out of your comfort zone abit further than normal? In
>> order to heal and grow a person needs to try new things and needs to
>> take some risks. That is a big scary thing to do! If you take a
>> slightly bigger risk than normal you get further away from what you
>> are used to and that can make feelings get a bit larger than you are
>> comfortable with in the moment.
>>
>oh. maybe we doing that?
Yep. It's part of growing and healing. If you always do the same stuff
in the same way, there is no change. No change means no growth. If you
try different things (even if they don't work out) you are taking that
risk and learning from it. THAT is growth!
>is more crazy stuff because seems like maybe we made some big
>changes/progress/whatever but then it seems like we stuck. can't be both
>at the same time
You aren't. You are in an inbetween phase. Like a toddler learning to
walk. You take a few steps and fall down and think 'what the heck, I
thought I had figured out how to walk?' or you walk on wood floors but
can't figure out how to walk on uneven tile. Or you start to take a
few steps away from the sofa edge and panic and try to reach back for
the safety of something to hold onto. You are _still_ learning to
walk, no matter what.
>>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts that
>>> are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>>
>> I am officially NOT tired of you, at all. I am officially interested
>> in reading your stuff. If necessary I will state this even more
>> directly and clearly :)
>>
>heh, how could you say that more directly and clearly??? nevermind, we
>got it!
I'm sure I could do it if necessary :)
>you make us laugh
*happy smile*
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
jill
Have you ever been in an old house? They used to use the weirdest
wallpaper! We visited andrew jackson's plantation on this last
vacation and in the hall and main foyer they used the WEIRDEST wall
paper with squares (looked like 1970s stuff!) and the docent insisted
it was not only authentic to the period but the stuff in the hallway
was the actual wallpaper and they had gotten someone to make a
reproduction of the actual stuff to re-do the main foyer.
Weird stuff!
So, would you prefer calm stuff in muted colors or wild happy stuff in
bold colors to brighten the space?
Rainbow Colors (Jill, who personally dislikes wallpaper and would just
paint the wall a nice teal color)
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>
>>> ok, but didn't we say walls were sort of then stuff? we were
>>> definitely in then stuff earlier so that would make sense.
>>>
>>> so then how do we get out?
>>
>> can start by peeking out window?
>> (maybe like what you're doing here)
>>
> is that what we doing?
seems so?
>>> and we've been thinking about what puddles and jill have been
>>> talking about. maybe if we could just let the feelings happen we
>>> wouldn't be so stuck? we trying so hard to not feel and life hasn't
>>> been great lately. maybe we just need to feel the then stuff?
>>
>> think trick is feeling it without getting lost in it
>> think that requires help
>> here or t
>> or both
>>
> ok, think we still doing the all or nothing thing. deep behind walls
> or too much.
mhm
> maybe need to think more about what t said in last session
what he say?
>>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we
>>> don't want to overwhelm here
>>
>> don't think you can overwhelm here
>> is many folks here
>> everyone can be here as they are able
>> everyone can respond as they are able
>> that makes here impossible to overwhelm
>>
> ok
>
>>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>>
>> but you did and it was right and good
>>
> think so?
yes!
>>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes.
>>> that's getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>>
>> you not crazy
>> you just not all on same page
>>
> <sigh>
> we started talking inside today
good
>>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably
>>> phrased differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't
>>> find that post now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking
>>> about it. maybe because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if
>>> we are crazy, that means we are hopeless and then we don't have to
>>> try to deal
>>
>> asked what would be safer about being crazy
>> guess the fantasy is that it would be easier?
>> but certainly not less painful
>>
> is it wrong to want easier?
isn't wrong
is natural
is human
but sometimes wanting the fantasy interferes with gaining the reality
(sometimes?)
>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why
>>> aren't we doing that this time?
>>
>> then keeps getting in the way?
>> got harder to push it behind walls
>>
> think it's harder to push it behind walls.
gets that way
> not real chant doesn't work anymore. we know you said it didn't ever
> work but it seemed like it did.
understand
>>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts
>>> that are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>>
>> doubt that would happen
>> hasn't happened yet in over a year
>>
> but maybe we will end up being more needy now. seems like maybe we
> different now
we like you
>>> <sigh>
>>>
>>> really seem to be stuck. don't know how to get out of this
>>
>> keep working at it
>>
> k
>
> we just marked tons of posts as read. posts we kept thinking we
> should get back to. maybe will make it a bit easier to be here
k
astri
> we not wanted lots of places. we know that. we not wanted lots and
> lots it seems.
> but we do believe we're wanted here.
yes, you are
Juniper
ji...@tuells.org (jill) wrote:
Maybe some grass wallpaper, but big wild grass, with animals peeking
out? Like a mural!
Juniper
astri
nope. that's only the message from folks who don't want to be bothered
having to deal with real feelings. can only focus on now and be happy
if the then stuff isn't haunting. facing the then stuff in order to get
the haunting to stop is definitely neither bad nor wallowing.
> we been trying to be now. trying really hard to not think about then.
> is what we mean about go go go, because if we keep going and busy and
> immersed in now then we can make then go away
that doesn't make then go away. that just removes your attention from
it. is kind of like taking lots of painkillers in order to be able to
go run a marathon on a sprained ankle. might be able to finish the
marathon, but the ankle isn't going to be in very good shape
afterwards.
> and that's where we get really confused because seems like we not
> supposed to be focusing too much on then and try to be in now but we
> not supposed to make stuff go away
is certain kind of focus on then that is needed. healing focus.
>> I was amazed at how much now stuff there was to deal with! Like
>> relationship with the SO, job stuff, friend stuff, asd stuff, etc.
>> All of that has feelings connected to it and you gotta let _those_
>> feelings happen too! Heck, even stuff like noticing that the piece
>> of chocolate I just ate tasted good and I enjoyed it is a feeling I
>> have to let happen!
> lots of now stuff. now stuff kind of overwhelming right now too.
yes. and the then stuff haunting makes the now stuff even more
overwhelming.
>>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we
>>> don't want to overwhelm here
>>>
>>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>>
>> So, good job posting then :) Breaking an old habit and trying
>> something different to see how it works. Cool.
>>
> <sigh> k
>
> but sometimes we post ltos and lots so maybe the other stuff we said
> is drama? maybe we just doing the same old thing we always do?
you mean like tying yourself into knots and tangles?
>>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes.
>>> that's getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>>
>> Nope, not crazy. Just stuck in crazy making feelings and reactions.
>>
> :/
>
>> One way _we_ stopped deleting was to post little posts without
>> reading them or thinking about them. Like one/two lines, just to get
>> a post out there. Sometimes they were about really lame things :)
>>
> k. maybe we try that sometime.
oh. yay.
>>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably
>>> phrased differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't
>>> find that post now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking
>>> about it. maybe because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if
>>> we are crazy, that means we are hopeless and then we don't have to
>>> try to deal
>>
>> Yep, being crazy is an amazing crutch! Still doesn't make you crazy
>> though.
>>
> hmm..
>
>> I remember being inpt and thinking how simple life would be if I
>> would just go totally whacked out nutz and stay inpt forever. I
>> still think back on that idea periodically to decide if maybe _now_
>> I would rather go that route...
>>
> can't imagine you going that way
can't either. think it woulda driven her nutz.
>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why
>>> aren't we doing that this time?
>>
>> Cause you are out of your comfort zone abit further than normal? In
>> order to heal and grow a person needs to try new things and needs to
>> take some risks. That is a big scary thing to do! If you take a
>> slightly bigger risk than normal you get further away from what you
>> are used to and that can make feelings get a bit larger than you are
>> comfortable with in the moment.
>>
> oh. maybe we doing that?
maybe
> is more crazy stuff because seems like maybe we made some big
> changes/progress/whatever but then it seems like we stuck. can't be
> both at the same time
can too. is how it works. make some big progress and then get stuck for
a bit until you get used to the changes.
>>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts
>>> that are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>>
>> I am officially NOT tired of you, at all. I am officially interested
>> in reading your stuff. If necessary I will state this even more
>> directly and clearly :)
>>
> heh, how could you say that more directly and clearly??? nevermind,
> we got it!
she could, you know.
astri
> and I don't want a door yet cuz don't want anyone to sneak in :P
>
> but wallpaper... hmm... maybe I should decorate the walls with
> wallpaper? hmm...what kind of wallpaper would we use?
nature photo print?
nice green leafy print?
trees!
> but things that are sticky tend to stick to us and not what they
> supposed to stick too. we have a hard enough time with saran wrap and
> duck tape so somebody else gotta put up the wall paper
ok
we volunteer
but how do we get in?
climb through window?
fuzzy
you wanted with j
you wanted here
fuzzy
> On Jul 4, 12:46 pm, j...@tuells.org (jill) wrote:
>> In article <7b85efF22f9d...@mid.individual.net>,
>>
don't think so
fuzzy
> In article <7bipcaF...@mid.individual.net>,
> fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jill wrote:
>>> In article <7bg092F...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> fuzzy wrote:
>>>>> walls again
<snip lots of wise ane helpful stuff because really long posts boggle
our brain>
>>
>>> I remember being inpt and thinking how simple life would be if I would
>>> just go totally whacked out nutz and stay inpt forever. I still think
>>> back on that idea periodically to decide if maybe _now_ I would rather
>>> go that route...
>>>
>> can't imagine you going that way
>
> In my dreams it would be such a good idea though *wry grin*
>
yes but... well... why?
>>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why aren't
>>>> we doing that this time?
>>> Cause you are out of your comfort zone abit further than normal? In
>>> order to heal and grow a person needs to try new things and needs to
>>> take some risks. That is a big scary thing to do! If you take a
>>> slightly bigger risk than normal you get further away from what you
>>> are used to and that can make feelings get a bit larger than you are
>>> comfortable with in the moment.
>>>
>> oh. maybe we doing that?
>
> Yep. It's part of growing and healing. If you always do the same stuff
> in the same way, there is no change. No change means no growth. If you
> try different things (even if they don't work out) you are taking that
> risk and learning from it. THAT is growth!
>
but we not sure if that's what we doing.
>> is more crazy stuff because seems like maybe we made some big
>> changes/progress/whatever but then it seems like we stuck. can't be both
>> at the same time
>
> You aren't. You are in an inbetween phase. Like a toddler learning to
> walk. You take a few steps and fall down and think 'what the heck, I
> thought I had figured out how to walk?' or you walk on wood floors but
> can't figure out how to walk on uneven tile. Or you start to take a
> few steps away from the sofa edge and panic and try to reach back for
> the safety of something to hold onto. You are _still_ learning to
> walk, no matter what.
>
<sigh>
>>>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts that
>>>> are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>>> I am officially NOT tired of you, at all. I am officially interested
>>> in reading your stuff. If necessary I will state this even more
>>> directly and clearly :)
>>>
>> heh, how could you say that more directly and clearly??? nevermind, we
>> got it!
>
> I'm sure I could do it if necessary :)
>
not needed :P
>> you make us laugh
>
> *happy smile*
>
:)
fuzzy
heh, remember seeing some weird old wallpaper once. not sure where
>
> So, would you prefer calm stuff in muted colors or wild happy stuff in
> bold colors to brighten the space?
calm muted nature colors
>
> Rainbow Colors (Jill, who personally dislikes wallpaper and would just
> paint the wall a nice teal color)
paint be ok too
or wood, clay or bamboo walls
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>> maybe need to think more about what t said in last session
>
> what he say?
>
>>>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we
>>>> don't want to overwhelm here
>>>
>>> don't think you can overwhelm here
>>> is many folks here
>>> everyone can be here as they are able
>>> everyone can respond as they are able
>>> that makes here impossible to overwhelm
>>>
>> ok
>>
>>>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>>>
>>> but you did and it was right and good
>>>
>> think so?
>
> yes!
>
and you all will tell us if we get annoying?
(sorry, think we keep asking that)
>>>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes.
>>>> that's getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>>>
>>> you not crazy
>>> you just not all on same page
>>>
>> <sigh>
>> we started talking inside today
>
> good
>
guess so. noisy
>>>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably
>>>> phrased differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't
>>>> find that post now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking
>>>> about it. maybe because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if
>>>> we are crazy, that means we are hopeless and then we don't have to
>>>> try to deal
>>>
>>> asked what would be safer about being crazy
>>> guess the fantasy is that it would be easier?
>>> but certainly not less painful
>>>
>> is it wrong to want easier?
>
> isn't wrong
> is natural
> is human
>
> but sometimes wanting the fantasy interferes with gaining the reality
> (sometimes?)
>
hmm....
>>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why
>>>> aren't we doing that this time?
>>>
>>> then keeps getting in the way?
>>> got harder to push it behind walls
>>>
>> think it's harder to push it behind walls.
>
> gets that way
don't like knowing we can't go back
if we really had to, could we?
>
>> not real chant doesn't work anymore. we know you said it didn't ever
>> work but it seemed like it did.
>
> understand
>
<sigh>
>>>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts
>>>> that are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>>>
>>> doubt that would happen
>>> hasn't happened yet in over a year
>>>
>> but maybe we will end up being more needy now. seems like maybe we
>> different now
>
> we like you
>
ty
wolfie of confuzzled
and there can be wolverines
we saw a weasel today.
... and a wandering pygmy goat. heh
fuzzy
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>
>> and I don't want a door yet cuz don't want anyone to sneak in :P
>>
>> but wallpaper... hmm... maybe I should decorate the walls with
>> wallpaper? hmm...what kind of wallpaper would we use?
>
> nature photo print?
> nice green leafy print?
> trees!
>
>> but things that are sticky tend to stick to us and not what they
>> supposed to stick too. we have a hard enough time with saran wrap and
>> duck tape so somebody else gotta put up the wall paper
>
> ok
>
> we volunteer
> but how do we get in?
> climb through window?
>
umm... dunno
maybe herman could transport you in?
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>> astri wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
> <...>
>
>
>>> maybe need to think more about what t said in last session
>>
>> what he say?
>>
>>>>> except that t isn't going to be around much this summer and we
>>>>> don't want to overwhelm here
>>>>
>>>> don't think you can overwhelm here
>>>> is many folks here
>>>> everyone can be here as they are able
>>>> everyone can respond as they are able
>>>> that makes here impossible to overwhelm
>>>>
>>> ok
>>>
>>>>> like now, really *feels* like we shouldn't be posting.
>>>>
>>>> but you did and it was right and good
>>>>
>>> think so?
>>
>> yes!
>>
> and you all will tell us if we get annoying?
> (sorry, think we keep asking that)
yes
>>>>> and how do we stop the deleting. we write and someone deletes.
>>>>> that's getting really crazy making. you sure we aren't crazy?
>>>>
>>>> you not crazy
>>>> you just not all on same page
>>>>
>>> <sigh>
>>> we started talking inside today
>>
>> good
>>
> guess so. noisy
think gets less noisy after folks have had a chance to have their say?
>>>>> think maybe astri asked why we want to be crazy (was probably
>>>>> phrased differently, don't think the word was "want"). we can't
>>>>> find that post now. having troubles thinking. but we been thinking
>>>>> about it. maybe because if we crazy there isn't then stuff? And if
>>>>> we are crazy, that means we are hopeless and then we don't have to
>>>>> try to deal
>>>>
>>>> asked what would be safer about being crazy
>>>> guess the fantasy is that it would be easier?
>>>> but certainly not less painful
>>>>
>>> is it wrong to want easier?
>>
>> isn't wrong
>> is natural
>> is human
>>
>> but sometimes wanting the fantasy interferes with gaining the
>> reality (sometimes?)
>>
> hmm....
>
>
>>>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why
>>>>> aren't we doing that this time?
>>>>
>>>> then keeps getting in the way?
>>>> got harder to push it behind walls
>>>>
>>> think it's harder to push it behind walls.
>>
>> gets that way
>
> don't like knowing we can't go back
> if we really had to, could we?
prolly?
>>> not real chant doesn't work anymore. we know you said it didn't
>>> ever work but it seemed like it did.
>>
>> understand
>>
> <sigh>
>
>>>>> and maybe people are going to get tired of us. these stupid posts
>>>>> that are too long andd go on and on and we ignoring everyone else
>>>>
>>>> doubt that would happen
>>>> hasn't happened yet in over a year
>>>>
>>> but maybe we will end up being more needy now. seems like maybe we
>>> different now
>>
>> we like you
>>
> ty
:)
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, fuzzy wrote:
>>
>>> and I don't want a door yet cuz don't want anyone to sneak in :P
>>>
>>> but wallpaper... hmm... maybe I should decorate the walls with
>>> wallpaper? hmm...what kind of wallpaper would we use?
>>
>> nature photo print?
>> nice green leafy print?
>> trees!
>>
> trees. and animals. mural like juniper said :) with a river and
> waterfall
yup yup
and while we're at it, rather than wallpaper, how about just a
transport station to take you into that scene?
>>> but things that are sticky tend to stick to us and not what they
>>> supposed to stick too. we have a hard enough time with saran wrap
>>> and duck tape so somebody else gotta put up the wall paper
>>
>> ok
>>
>> we volunteer
>> but how do we get in?
>> climb through window?
>>
> umm... dunno
> maybe herman could transport you in?
k
jill
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>jill wrote:
><snip lots of wise ane helpful stuff because really long posts boggle
>our brain>
Ok, then I'll clean things up too...
>>>> I remember being inpt and thinking how simple life would be if I would
>>>> just go totally whacked out nutz and stay inpt forever. I still think
>>>> back on that idea periodically to decide if maybe _now_ I would rather
>>>> go that route...
>>>>
>>> can't imagine you going that way
>>
>> In my dreams it would be such a good idea though *wry grin*
>>
>yes but... well... why?
It's so... consistent and calm and predictable. I wonder how long I
could put up with it before it would drive me crazy *hee hee* I
did it once for one day less than a month (the dr said it was good to
save the one day 'just in case' cause that is how the insurance worked
at the time. I never did understand what he meant, what good would ONE
DAY do?) and I felt at the time I could easily stay another month.
>>>>> and it sure feels crazy. normally we pull ourself together. why aren't
>>>>> we doing that this time?
>>>> Cause you are out of your comfort zone abit further than normal? In
>>>> order to heal and grow a person needs to try new things and needs to
>>>> take some risks. That is a big scary thing to do! If you take a
>>>> slightly bigger risk than normal you get further away from what you
>>>> are used to and that can make feelings get a bit larger than you are
>>>> comfortable with in the moment.
>>>>
>>> oh. maybe we doing that?
>>
>> Yep. It's part of growing and healing. If you always do the same stuff
>> in the same way, there is no change. No change means no growth. If you
>> try different things (even if they don't work out) you are taking that
>> risk and learning from it. THAT is growth!
>>
>but we not sure if that's what we doing.
Maybe not, or maybe. I guess my pov is to try to see it as a chance
for growth rather than always worrying it means something negative.
Especially if it's happening whether you want it to or not :P Why
sit around and be miserable about something that might just as easily
be good for you.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
jill
We went to the museum and saw dioramas and in one was something that
_I_ say is a llama but the sign said it was an liguana or laguano or
something like that... And then we took kidlette to riding lessons
and in the barn there are two baby goats and they finally look like
goats and not just fat short haired sheep but they are still pretty
dumb and stand in their food dish and look around confusedly like
'where's the food' while they are standing on it.
Oh! And I just remembered. While fritz and I were sitting in the
truck reading one of the barn cats jumped up on the open window right
on my leg and I was afraid it was going to fall down by the
pedals and I started to laugh and it fell out the window and ran
away all miffed :)
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
fuzzy
could it have been a gaunaco (sometimes spelled haunaco). or a vicunas?
> something like that... And then we took kidlette to riding lessons
> and in the barn there are two baby goats and they finally look like
> goats and not just fat short haired sheep but they are still pretty
> dumb and stand in their food dish and look around confusedly like
> 'where's the food' while they are standing on it.
>
:) we used to do some work for n's mom way back when she raised goats.
> Oh! And I just remembered. While fritz and I were sitting in the
> truck reading one of the barn cats jumped up on the open window right
> on my leg and I was afraid it was going to fall down by the
> pedals and I started to laugh and it fell out the window and ran
> away all miffed :)
>
sheesh, didn't you know you're not supposed to laugh at cats :P