Dissociation/personalities lessened by Abilify or other anti-psychotic?
Self Family
dissociation being lessened or eliminated by the atypical anti-
psychotic Abilify (aripiprazole). We’re interested in hearing about
anyone’s experience with Abilify lessening dissociation no matter
where one lives along the dissociative spectrum. We are particularly
interested in hearing from any other multiples who have found that
Abilify lessens the ability of personalities to shift or switch --i.e.
people have trouble or can’t come out or go back in-- and dampens or
blocks communication between people in their system. We are also
interested in hearing from people who have experienced this on other
atypical anti-psychotics (Geodon, Risperdol, etc).
What was or is it like for you? How did it affect your selves’
ability to cooperate and communicate with each other, to individuate
or integrate? Was it positive, negative, or both? Did you take Abilify
(or another anti-psychotic) with the intention of lessening
dissociation, or did you take it for another purpose and your
dissociation happened to reduce?
We are multiple and just started taking Abilify as a mood
stabilizer so that we do not become manic from an antidepressant. We
have been depressed for psychological reasons --hard life situations
in the present are stirring up past trauma—and want the extra help of
an antidepressant. But we also have Bipolar III*, which means that one
does not normally have biologically created mania or depression but
can have mood swings caused by a substance. So in order to safely take
an antidepressant without becoming manic, which is freaking what
happens to the max as we have learned the hard way, we need to take it
with a mood stabilizer. Hence Abilify.
The problem is, it is messing up our family, and we don’t like it
at all! We feel muffled. Like layers of cotton batting insulation
between us. We can’t talk with each other well on the inside, and we
can’t come out completely. In our healing we are working on system
wide individuation, not integration. We’re strengthening the
individuality of each of us along with our ability to communicate and
relate with each other. This Abilify doesn’t make us feel integrated
so much as it is turning our senses of self, as separate and unique,
into a mush. Everyone is here but like in a fog, with the volume
dampened, texture flattened, and no depth of field. It’s a bit
robotic. Superficial…like everyone is a clone…can’t get below the
surface of ourselves to our actual personalities. Almost like we’ve
become objects. As far as togetherness goes, we’re still a we but we
can’t talk with each other very well. We can’t find ourselves easily
so we have little reference from which to find each other. We don’t
like it one bit.
We had one visit with our new psychiatrist last week, who carried
the Bipolar III diagnosis from the previous psychiatric nurse, and
prescribed Abilify. The plan is to titrate up to a decent dose, then
start an antidepressant. We didn’t tell him we are multiple because it
did not seem relevant and we only had one hour to do the intake visit.
So we stuck with our PTSD, depression, and history of flipping out on
antidepressants, saving the multiplicity for the second session. We
knew that Abilify is an anti-psychotic as well as a mood-stabilizer,
and we know that anti-psychotics are used to treat dissociation, but
we didn’t make the connection until today, about a week into the
prescription, when we realized we’re messed up.
Yeah, it’s “treating” our dissociation all right. Stupid
DisAbilify! :( :( :( :(
Is there ANYbody who can be here? ….uh… I’m really woozy. I’m
floating. There’s no earth. I’m going back in. I don’t like
this. Nope, everyone feels in a fog.
Our new psychiatrist is out of the office this week so we left him
a message telling him it’s messing with our multiplicity and we are
going to be patient to hear what he has to say about this. Unless it
gets worse, in which case we’ll titrate off it and stop.
So now we are thinking about alternative mood stabilizers. We are
wondering if Lithium might work. We’re going to attach a post to this
one asking about people’s experience with Lithium, whether anyone has
had it muffle their dissociation. We are guessing it may not, as it is
not in the same drug class as Abilify.
Thanks for any constructive replies about your experiences.
The Self Family
* Bipolar III is a new bipolar diagnosis in the works. It is being
used in the field and will be included in the next DSM when it is
published in 2011, along with the current bipolar types I and II. The
Bipolar disorders are being remodeled into a spectrum, like
dissociation is commonly modeled. Bipolar III is at the weak end of
the spectrum.
slunky
to augment the topamax we take. (We also have a Bipolar III diagnosis
and cannot take antidepressants.)
--
-slunky
Self Family
and Abilify are you taking? -Self Family
Self Family
dissociation or multiplicity? It was our psychiatrist's second choice
of a mood stabilizer, with Lamictal the first and Abilify the third.
Lamictal got scratched because when we took it before we had a mild
rash that was in the same place that a different rash that is a
symptom of a deadly adverse effect appears. Lithium got scratched
because years ago we had lithium toxicity on a normal therapeutic
dose. It was slow to come on, so we're thinking maybe Lithium is not
as risky as Lamictal, and maybe we could try Lithium again and see
what happens. We have never heard of Lithium being prescribed to treat
dissociation, like in DID or BPD, whereas the atypical anti-psychotics
like Abilify and Geodon are, so maybe it would not mess with us in
that way and just help us not get manic on an antidepressant. -Self
Family
slunky
> Hi slunky. Hmm. Well that's good. May we ask, what doses of topamax
> and Abilify are you taking? -Self Family
100mg Topamax and 45mg Abilify.
--
-slunky
astri
> We’d like to hear from anyone who has experienced their
> dissociation being lessened or eliminated by the atypical anti-
> psychotic Abilify (aripiprazole). We’re interested in hearing about
> anyone’s experience with Abilify lessening dissociation no matter
> where one lives along the dissociative spectrum. We are particularly
> interested in hearing from any other multiples who have found that
> Abilify lessens the ability of personalities to shift or switch
> --i.e. people have trouble or can’t come out or go back in-- and
> dampens or blocks communication between people in their system. We
> are also interested in hearing from people who have experienced this
> on other atypical anti-psychotics (Geodon, Risperdol, etc).
just saying hi
don't have information for you about anti-psychotics. categorically
refuse to take them.
yuck
sounds hideous
> We had one visit with our new psychiatrist last week, who carried
> the Bipolar III diagnosis from the previous psychiatric nurse, and
> prescribed Abilify. The plan is to titrate up to a decent dose, then
> start an antidepressant. We didn’t tell him we are multiple because
> it did not seem relevant and we only had one hour to do the intake
> visit. So we stuck with our PTSD, depression, and history of flipping
> out on antidepressants, saving the multiplicity for the second
> session. We knew that Abilify is an anti-psychotic as well as a
> mood-stabilizer, and we know that anti-psychotics are used to treat
> dissociation, but we didn’t make the connection until today, about a
> week into the prescription, when we realized we’re messed up.
>
> Yeah, it’s “treating” our dissociation all right. Stupid
> DisAbilify! :( :( :( :(
>
> Is there ANYbody who can be here? ….uh… I’m really woozy. I’m
> floating. There’s no earth. I’m going back in. I don’t like
> this. Nope, everyone feels in a fog.
>
> Our new psychiatrist is out of the office this week so we left him
> a message telling him it’s messing with our multiplicity and we are
> going to be patient to hear what he has to say about this. Unless it
> gets worse, in which case we’ll titrate off it and stop.
hope he doesn't say: oh, good. getting rid of the dissociation too!
yipee.
:P
> So now we are thinking about alternative mood stabilizers. We are
> wondering if Lithium might work. We’re going to attach a post to this
> one asking about people’s experience with Lithium, whether anyone has
> had it muffle their dissociation. We are guessing it may not, as it
> is not in the same drug class as Abilify.
lithium is really dangerous. might consider lamictal before that.
> Thanks for any constructive replies about your experiences.
>
> The Self Family
welcome to asd
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
Emerging Butterfly
hey there and welcome. sounds like you have really intelligent
approach to take with the multiplicity. and you're articulate, even in
such a fog.
i'm sorry these effects are so bad for you. :(
i don't really have any feedback from taking anything from this class
of medications. um, i take seroquil for sleep at a low dose. it kinda
numbs things sometimes and i want to get off of it.
i hope you stay around here.
and i hope you start to see more of the yous again. that's important.
EB
Juniper
<071f1bef-7206-4028...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Self Family <se...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> Our new psychiatrist is out of the office this week so we left him
> a message telling him it�s messing with our multiplicity and we are
> going to be patient to hear what he has to say about this. Unless it
> gets worse, in which case we�ll titrate off it and stop.
I don't have any other feedback, but I did want to say that I'm glad
you've gotten back to him, as much as is possible with his being out
right now, and done so quickly.
You sound like someone who is on top of things, which I find cheering.
Good luck, and I hope you get the information you need.
Juniper
--
Hearts cannot be bound to orthodoxy.
Juniper
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > So now we are thinking about alternative mood stabilizers. We are
> > wondering if Lithium might work. Weire going to attach a post to this
> > one asking about peopleis experience with Lithium, whether anyone has
> > had it muffle their dissociation. We are guessing it may not, as it
> > is not in the same drug class as Abilify.
>
> lithium is really dangerous. might consider lamictal before that.
Come to think of it, I did know someone (a singleton) who was taking
lithium but wasn't bipolar. She said it made her feel really drugged
and sleepy, so it sounds like it might do to the body what Ambilify is
doing to the system.
jill
When lithium was first introduced, and WAY before we knew we were many,
we were inpt and given lithium to try 'just in case' because no one
really knew what was going on and there were some indications we might
have some sort of bipolar type symptoms (turned out it was just severe
anxiety and ptsd but at the time no one knew that).
We took lithium for 6 months with absolutely NO effect. No side
effects, no change in anything. It was like taking a placebo. Nothing.
Eventually (years later) a pdoc suggested we try ativan prn for the
anxiety and that actually made a difference. We also took dexedrine
for ADD symptoms for many years and that really helped quite a bit.
From what you say about lithium toxicity I would think that taking
lithium would be a bad idea for you. I can't believe you wouldn't have
a reaction and that might hurt your body in a way that might be
permanent. Obviously, you want to tell your pdoc about that reaction
in the past!
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
slunky
We took lithium. Two different kinds at two different times. First
lithobid, which caused a lot of kidney pain. Then eskalith, which made
us sick, made our hair start falling out, and made us smell funny.
--
-slunky
Nom dePlume
much as it is generally making you feel sedated and foggy. That is not an
uncommon reaction to antipsychotics, and if it persists, I would urge you to
tell your psychiatrist that this medication is not working well for you.
Ability is not categorized as a "mood stabilizer," but as an "atypical
antipsychotic." The atypicals are used to treat schizophrenia, primarily,
but in recent years have become more popular as anti-manic agents in the
treatment of bipolar disorder. I am not a fan of this use, unless mood
stabilizers have already been tried and found insufficient, because of the
risk of movement disorders and diabetes that attend usage of the atypicals.
In your shoes, I would want to discuss mood stabilizers such as Depakote,
Topamax, Tegretol, and so forth, with the psychiatrist, as alternatives to
antipsychotics.
I am not saying that your psychiatrist has done anything wrong. I am saying
that it is a good idea to educate yourself about the options, and their pros
and cons, and have an informed disucssion with your doctor (instead of
simply taking whatever he hands out).
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D.
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
Find my book, Medicines for Mental health, and free drug information, at
www.MentalMeds.org
=====
Juniper
slunky
Oh, we forgot the most concerning part about eskalith. It made our
tounge tingle like pop rocks and gave us tremors. When we had the med
nurse in the hsptl print usa fact sheet, both those side effects were
listed as "notify your doc immediately".
Hsptl pdoc said lithobid is a much more stable lithium compound than
eskalith, but we were refusing lithobid.
--
-slunky
Self Family
> just saying hi
Hi, Astri.
> don't have information for you about anti-psychotics. categorically refuse to take them.
Sounds like a plan!
> yuck
> sounds hideous
Yeah, it was pretty bad. We stopped and feel NORMAL again ;)
> hope he doesn't say: oh, good. getting rid of the dissociation too!
> yipee.
>
> :P
We doubt it. This is a psychiatrist who recommended we take fish oil
to get Omega-3s as an adjunctive anti-depressant! Plus, he knew that
BPD is associated with trauma! Any psychiatrist who understands how
BPD can be related to trauma and tells us to eat fish oil has our
happy respect.
> lithium is really dangerous. might consider lamictal before that.
Lamictal gave us a mild rash on our neck and face, which is where a
severe rash occurs that is one symptom of Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, an
adverse effect of Lamictal that can kill you quick. Even though we
never had Stevens-Johnson and the rash was really mild, the
prescribing psych thought, and our new one agrees, Lamictal is too
risky for us. That's too bad because we felt good on it.
From what we understand about Lithium, the main dangers are organ
damage over very long term use, and toxicity, usually when taken at a
high dose. We took lithium once for several months with no adverse
effects, and again for several months with toxicity at a normal,
therapeutic dose. The symptoms of toxicity came on slowly and we were
able to stop the lithium before getting hurt. We're open to trying it
again and will ask our psychiatrist what he thinks.
>
> welcome to asd
>
Thanks, astri.
Self Family
> From what you say about lithium toxicity I would think that taking
> lithium would be a bad idea for you. I can't believe you wouldn't have
> a reaction and that might hurt your body in a way that might be
> permanent. Obviously, you want to tell your pdoc about that reaction
> in the past!
>
> Rainbow Colors (Jill)
Hi Jill and Rainbow Colors,
It might be bad. Like we were saying to astri we took it twice, once
fine, once toxicity. We told our psych about the toxicity (but forgot
to tell him about the ok time) and that is why he put us on the
Abilify. His top three mood stabilizer choices were Lamictal, lithium,
and Abilfy, in that order. Cause of the rash we were saying about to
astri we can't do Lamictal. We are going to tell him about the ok time
on the lithium and see what he thinks. There are other choices besides
those three.
mostly Nigel of the Self Family
Self Family
> lithobid, which caused a lot of kidney pain. Then eskalith, which made
> us sick, made our hair start falling out, and made us smell funny.
>
> --
> -slunky
Dang. That's harsh! Who are these inventors of these medicines?
Wierdos. -Trey
Yeah, but we soaked in lithium water hot springs and that was nice. -
Otis
Ok. True. But that's different than eating it in a concentrated pill.
In the hot springs it was a natural and small amount of mineral.
Yeah, okay. Well we just need something.
We'll find something.
No hair falling out!
Sorry about that bad experience slunky. We all hope you got hairy
again! :)
Self Family
astri wrote:
> > Come to think of it, I did know someone (a singleton) who was taking
> > lithium but wasn't bipolar. She said it made her feel really drugged
> > and sleepy, so it sounds like it might do to the body what Ambilify is
> > doing to the system.
>
> will second that. was put on lithium for nearly six months. began to
> become very spacey and dopey in the last months before changing pdocs who
> took me off of it. i'd like to think it potentiated the wellbutrin and
> maybe it did but i've no proof of that, specifically. wouldn't want to do
> it again.
Thanks for the heads up, justpete
and would never have gotten by without seroquel which i'm now
> off of as well.
>
It's funny how some things work for one body not the others.
Self Family
Self Family
> It doesn't sound to me thatAbilifyis lessening dissociation for you, so
> much as it is generally making you feel sedated and foggy. That is not an
> uncommon reaction to antipsychotics, and if it persists, I would urge you to
> tell your psychiatrist that this medication is not working well for you.
That is very perceptive of you and we think that may have been what
was happening. We have thought the same possibility. As we mentioned
to others we stopped a couple days ago and feel normally multiple
again. Another thing we do know is the constant drugged-groggy mind
feeling, plus the physical pain of the headache and muscle ackes and
cramps make us remember the bad people hurting us with drugs and
stuff, some. Like in the background. and we were getting impatient and
depressed from it. That makes most of us stay in the background. But
the brain fog stuff was different. Maybe it was that making us not
find each other, not some ...ah..big person word. Oh, I can't
remember.
Not some anti-psychotic dampening thing. Whatever. We feel normal now.
> Ability is not categorized as a "mood stabilizer," but as an "atypical
> antipsychotic." The atypicals are used to treat schizophrenia, primarily,
> but in recent years have become more popular as anti-manic agents in the
> treatment of bipolar disorder. I am not a fan of this use, unless mood
> stabilizers have already been tried and found insufficient, because of the
> risk of movement disorders and diabetes that attend usage of the atypicals.
> In your shoes, I would want to discuss mood stabilizers such as Depakote,
> Topamax, Tegretol, and so forth, with the psychiatrist, as alternatives to
> antipsychotics.
>
Hmm. Everything has it's adverse effects (Depakote slows the
metabolism and we gained 20 lbs in 8 months on it before stopping) and
categories are so often generalizations (a category expands as off
label use becomes a tested, accepted, on-label use; like Depakote,
which started as an anti-seizure med, not a mood-stabilizer, then it
was noted that depressed epileptics were less depressed, and after
testing lo and behold it's a mood stabilizer too). But we take your
point about the difference between the second generation "anti-
psychotics" and the "mood stabilizers," and thanks for that tip. Yeah,
different pharmacoblahblahblah, different effects.
> I am not saying that your psychiatrist has done anything wrong. I am saying
> that it is a good idea to educate yourself about the options, and their pros
> and cons
that's why we're posting to this group
and have an informed disucssion with your doctor (instead of
> simply taking whatever he hands out).
we never do that except when he doles out fat wads of cash
-Trey and Nigel
Self Family
On Jul 8, 9:38 am, Juniper <juni...@juniper.asarian-intl.org> wrote:
> In article
> <071f1bef-7206-4028-b4b8-c79fca926...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
slunky
> to get Omega-3s as an adjunctive anti-depressant! Plus, he knew that
> BPD is associated with trauma! Any psychiatrist who understands how
> BPD can be related to trauma and tells us to eat fish oil has our
> happy respect.
You would respect our pdoc then, because recommended fish oil for us
too.
--
-slunky
slunky
>> lithobid, which caused a lot of kidney pain. Then eskalith, which made
>> us sick, made our hair start falling out, and made us smell funny.
>>
>> --
>
> Dang. That's harsh! Who are these inventors of these medicines?
> Wierdos. -Trey
> Yeah, but we soaked in lithium water hot springs and that was nice. -
> Otis
> Ok. True. But that's different than eating it in a concentrated pill.
> In the hot springs it was a natural and small amount of mineral.
> Yeah, okay. Well we just need something.
> We'll find something.
> No hair falling out!
>
> Sorry about that bad experience slunky. We all hope you got hairy
> again! :)
Well, can't say we were ever really hairly, but our hair did fill back
in, yes. (T says she can see our natural hair color growing in at the
top. She said it's a nice color.)
--
-slunky
astri
> On Jul 7, 8:48 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> just saying hi
>
> Hi, Astri.
hi
>> don't have information for you about anti-psychotics. categorically
>> refuse to take them.
>
> Sounds like a plan!
heh
>> yuck
>> sounds hideous
>
> Yeah, it was pretty bad. We stopped and feel NORMAL again ;)
yay
>> hope he doesn't say: oh, good. getting rid of the dissociation too!
>> yipee.
>>
>> :P
>
> We doubt it. This is a psychiatrist who recommended we take fish oil
> to get Omega-3s as an adjunctive anti-depressant! Plus, he knew that
> BPD is associated with trauma! Any psychiatrist who understands how
> BPD can be related to trauma and tells us to eat fish oil has our
> happy respect.
ok
>> lithium is really dangerous. might consider lamictal before that.
>
> Lamictal gave us a mild rash on our neck and face, which is where a
> severe rash occurs that is one symptom of Stevens-Johnson Syndrome,
> an adverse effect of Lamictal that can kill you quick. Even though we
> never had Stevens-Johnson and the rash was really mild, the
> prescribing psych thought, and our new one agrees, Lamictal is too
> risky for us. That's too bad because we felt good on it.
sigh
> From what we understand about Lithium, the main dangers are organ
> damage over very long term use, and toxicity, usually when taken at a
> high dose. We took lithium once for several months with no adverse
> effects, and again for several months with toxicity at a normal,
> therapeutic dose. The symptoms of toxicity came on slowly and we were
> able to stop the lithium before getting hurt. We're open to trying it
> again and will ask our psychiatrist what he thinks.
k
>> welcome to asd
>>
> Thanks, astri.
yw
astri
> On Jul 8, 2:51 pm, Just Pete <justp...@asarian-host.net> wrote:
>
> astri wrote:
hmmm
didn't write any of this, tho.
>>> Come to think of it, I did know someone (a singleton) who was
>>> taking lithium but wasn't bipolar. She said it made her feel really
>>> drugged and sleepy, so it sounds like it might do to the body what
>>> Ambilify is doing to the system.
>>
>> will second that. was put on lithium for nearly six months. began to
>> become very spacey and dopey in the last months before changing
>> pdocs who took me off of it. i'd like to think it potentiated the
>> wellbutrin and maybe it did but i've no proof of that, specifically.
>> wouldn't want to do it again.
>
> Thanks for the heads up, justpete
>
>> and would never have gotten by without seroquel which i'm now
>> off of as well.
>>
>
> It's funny how some things work for one body not the others.
and sometimes how things work for some inside a body and not the
others.
Nom dePlume
news:7cc40666-53db-49f9...@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
and have an informed disucssion with your doctor (instead of
> simply taking whatever he hands out).
we never do that except when he doles out fat wads of cash
-Trey and Nigel
===
If your doctor hands out fat wads of cash, maybe I should visit him! :)
I'm glad you are feeling better.