When the T's away....
Juniper
therapeutic relationship.
Might not be a good idea, but might not be a bad idea, either. Except
the Ts on "IT" are Fr*udians. <spit>
Dunno if anyone else here has watched it (it's on HBO), but I'm finding
it mesmerizing. I'm considering exchanging W. for Gabriel Byrne. LOL!
Half his clients are total idiots, though. How can they not see what
they're doing? But Sophie. Sophie. I so identify with Sophie. It's
her relationship with Paul that I most analyze. W. and I had been
talking about our relationship before he went on vacation this past
week. (He'll be back next week, then away for 2 weeks in August and 1
week in September.) He was talking like it might be a problem that a
big part of the reason I come see him is for a fix of positive
attention. Chewing it over and watching "IT" I've been thinking about
how I turn to men for nurturing. It's leftover from my grandfather when
I was little. He loved me so much and paid me a lot of attention and
pushed against my mother when she wanted to be strict and deny me
pleasures. "C'mon, Pat. Let the kid have some jam!" he famously said
one morning at breakfast when I was spooning strawberry preserves on my
toast and she was telling me I was taking too much.
I just realized what I need to do this weekend. I need to make
strawberry jam. I'm feeling a little weepy now. I *seriously* need to
make myself some strawberry jam! I hope the farmers' market is running
tomorrow, despite the holiday.
Is it so awful to need the positive attention I get from W.? He thinks
maybe I'm stuck (which I kind of am right now) because I don't want to
get "better" because then I'd have to leave him. Or at least he sounds
like he thinks that. I'm afraid he'll leave me. Is it so terrible to
be dependent on him for something I don't get many other places? It's
not like I have a partner, and my family is so tied up in its own
problems they don't have time or energy to give me positive attention.
I'm up to week 4 on "IT" right now, so if you've watched further, please
don't tell me any spoilers. I watch the Sophie episodes twice. That
actress is amazing, and I love the way Paul relates to her.
OK. That's all for now.
Juniper
fuzzy
> ... the mouse will watch "In Treatment" on DVD and ponder the
> therapeutic relationship.
>
> Might not be a good idea, but might not be a bad idea, either. Except
> the Ts on "IT" are Fr*udians. <spit>
>
> Dunno if anyone else here has watched it (it's on HBO), but I'm finding
> it mesmerizing. I'm considering exchanging W. for Gabriel Byrne. LOL!
> Half his clients are total idiots, though. How can they not see what
> they're doing? But Sophie. Sophie. I so identify with Sophie. It's
> her relationship with Paul that I most analyze. W. and I had been
> talking about our relationship before he went on vacation this past
> week. (He'll be back next week, then away for 2 weeks in August and 1
> week in September.) He was talking like it might be a problem that a
> big part of the reason I come see him is for a fix of positive
> attention. Chewing it over and watching "IT" I've been thinking about
> how I turn to men for nurturing. It's leftover from my grandfather when
> I was little. He loved me so much and paid me a lot of attention and
> pushed against my mother when she wanted to be strict and deny me
> pleasures. "C'mon, Pat. Let the kid have some jam!" he famously said
> one morning at breakfast when I was spooning strawberry preserves on my
> toast and she was telling me I was taking too much.
>
> I just realized what I need to do this weekend. I need to make
> strawberry jam. I'm feeling a little weepy now. I *seriously* need to
> make myself some strawberry jam! I hope the farmers' market is running
> tomorrow, despite the holiday.
>
awww... we've got some jam. isn't home made and is sugar free but we
like it. your welcome to have it
<offers jam>
> Is it so awful to need the positive attention I get from W.? He thinks
> maybe I'm stuck (which I kind of am right now) because I don't want to
> get "better" because then I'd have to leave him. Or at least he sounds
> like he thinks that. I'm afraid he'll leave me. Is it so terrible to
> be dependent on him for something I don't get many other places? It's
> not like I have a partner, and my family is so tied up in its own
> problems they don't have time or energy to give me positive attention.
>
I don't think it's awful to need the attention. maybe the concern is the
"stuck" part. maybe W hopes you will be able to find it in other parts
of your life? this would be a good post to send to him
> I'm up to week 4 on "IT" right now, so if you've watched further, please
> don't tell me any spoilers. I watch the Sophie episodes twice. That
> actress is amazing, and I love the way Paul relates to her.
>
never seen the show. we always clueless when it comes to shows and movies.
> OK. That's all for now.
>
thanks for sharing
seems like maybe you feeling lonely?
astri
> W. and I had been talking about our relationship before he went on
> vacation this past week. (He'll be back next week, then away for 2
> weeks in August and 1 week in September.) He was talking like it
> might be a problem that a big part of the reason I come see him is
> for a fix of positive attention. Chewing it over and watching "IT"
> I've been thinking about how I turn to men for nurturing. It's
> leftover from my grandfather when I was little. He loved me so much
> and paid me a lot of attention and pushed against my mother when she
> wanted to be strict and deny me pleasures. "C'mon, Pat. Let the kid
> have some jam!" he famously said one morning at breakfast when I was
> spooning strawberry preserves on my toast and she was telling me I
> was taking too much.
>
> I just realized what I need to do this weekend. I need to make
> strawberry jam. I'm feeling a little weepy now. I *seriously* need
> to make myself some strawberry jam! I hope the farmers' market is
> running tomorrow, despite the holiday.
>
> Is it so awful to need the positive attention I get from W.? He thinks
> maybe I'm stuck (which I kind of am right now) because I don't want to
> get "better" because then I'd have to leave him. Or at least he sounds
> like he thinks that. I'm afraid he'll leave me. Is it so terrible to
> be dependent on him for something I don't get many other places? It's
> not like I have a partner, and my family is so tied up in its own
> problems they don't have time or energy to give me positive attention.
awful to need positive comments? no.
fragile that it only comes from one source? yes
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
jill
Hmm, well it is true that sometimes people do that, not get better so
they don't have to leave. Some people consider this a problem, some
people consider it fodder for t'py.
>like he thinks that. I'm afraid he'll leave me. Is it so terrible to
>be dependent on him for something I don't get many other places? It's
It isn't bad to be dependent as long as you _AND_ he agree that this
is what t'py is about. If either one of you doesn't see this as ok,
then it won't be ok in the long run.
>not like I have a partner, and my family is so tied up in its own
>problems they don't have time or energy to give me positive attention.
So, one arguement is that if you weren't so tied up in your
relationship with him you would branch out and find someone to have a
relationship with. Another arguement goes, if you need to have this
relationship with him right now it is his job to help you figure out
why and how to move that onto something else external to t'py. And yet
a third arguement is that, if you are the type of person who needs
this relationship then you need to come to terms with it and settle
into having maintenance t'py with him indefinitely (assuming he is the
type of t'pist who will do this).
I personally lean toward arguement two for most people and myself.
>I'm up to week 4 on "IT" right now, so if you've watched further, please
>don't tell me any spoilers. I watch the Sophie episodes twice. That
>actress is amazing, and I love the way Paul relates to her.
>
>OK. That's all for now.
>
>Juniper
I haven't seen that show. I do think this is an issue for you to
continue pondering as it can be a step in the right direction to
figure out if being with him is keeping you from being with someone
else, or if you are more like me. I have never really clicked with
people socially and I learned to accept that this is the type of
person I am. I find ways to let people into my life so I don't feel
totally cut off but it is always a conscious effort on my part and
doesn't seem to get easier over time.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
Juniper
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Not so much comments as attention. He listens to me. He pays
attention, except for those times when he has an agenda and then he's
off and running and I get pissed off. He cares about me. He has even
admitted to worrying about me on occasion.
> fragile that it only comes from one source? yes
I'm forming relationships with other people, and I have more and more of
them, but not many of them are relationships where they want to know
what's going on with me in a sustained fashion. Most are of the "when
we talk, we talk deep, but we don't see each other more than every few
weeks" variety.
As someone said, yes, I am feeling lonely. I really enjoy alone time
and had to push myself to go to a neighbor's bbq this afternoon, but I'm
also lonely. I wish there were someone who was interested in my deep
stuff on an ongoing basis. Right now I sort of have someone on a once a
week basis, and that's W. I have lots of friends, but no committed
friend of the heart. I've been playing "come here/go away" with the
idea of dating, and I'm not finding sparks with anyone. When Facebook
friends want to get together for us to meet, I tend to be busy. Why
bother? No-one else has clicked, so why should they? I wish I had a
best friend or a girlfriend. Except that the idea of having a
girlfriend is challenging/threatening too. *sigh*
Juniper
Peppermint Patootie
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Juniper wrote:
> > ... the mouse will watch "In Treatment" on DVD and ponder the
> > therapeutic relationship.
> >
> > Might not be a good idea, but might not be a bad idea, either. Except
> > the Ts on "IT" are Fr*udians. <spit>
> >
> > Dunno if anyone else here has watched it (it's on HBO), but I'm finding
> > it mesmerizing. I'm considering exchanging W. for Gabriel Byrne. LOL!
> > Half his clients are total idiots, though. How can they not see what
> > they're doing? But Sophie. Sophie. I so identify with Sophie. It's
> > her relationship with Paul that I most analyze. W. and I had been
> > talking about our relationship before he went on vacation this past
> > week. (He'll be back next week, then away for 2 weeks in August and 1
> > week in September.) He was talking like it might be a problem that a
> > big part of the reason I come see him is for a fix of positive
> > attention. Chewing it over and watching "IT" I've been thinking about
> > how I turn to men for nurturing. It's leftover from my grandfather when
> > I was little. He loved me so much and paid me a lot of attention and
> > pushed against my mother when she wanted to be strict and deny me
> > pleasures. "C'mon, Pat. Let the kid have some jam!" he famously said
> > one morning at breakfast when I was spooning strawberry preserves on my
> > toast and she was telling me I was taking too much.
> >
> sounds like he really liked you and was a nice person to have in your life
He was the light in my world. He died when I was eight, and there was
no more light for a very long time.
There weren't any strawberries at the farmers' market. I'll try again a
different one on Tuesday, but I think the season's over. They're
selling raspberries already.
> > I just realized what I need to do this weekend. I need to make
> > strawberry jam. I'm feeling a little weepy now. I *seriously* need to
> > make myself some strawberry jam! I hope the farmers' market is running
> > tomorrow, despite the holiday.
> >
> awww... we've got some jam. isn't home made and is sugar free but we
> like it. your welcome to have it
>
> <offers jam>
Thanks, sweetie! I think it was the idea of my making myself my OWN
strawberry jam that was most appealing.
> > Is it so awful to need the positive attention I get from W.? He thinks
> > maybe I'm stuck (which I kind of am right now) because I don't want to
> > get "better" because then I'd have to leave him. Or at least he sounds
> > like he thinks that. I'm afraid he'll leave me. Is it so terrible to
> > be dependent on him for something I don't get many other places? It's
> > not like I have a partner, and my family is so tied up in its own
> > problems they don't have time or energy to give me positive attention.
> >
> I don't think it's awful to need the attention. maybe the concern is the
> "stuck" part. maybe W hopes you will be able to find it in other parts
> of your life?
We've been working on that since I started working with him. I now have
two communities I didn't have before: the ch*rch I'm at and Camp. I
have many friends, but no sustained deep friendship. See other post to
astri.
> this would be a good post to send to him
Yes. That occurred to me.
> > I'm up to week 4 on "IT" right now, so if you've watched further, please
> > don't tell me any spoilers. I watch the Sophie episodes twice. That
> > actress is amazing, and I love the way Paul relates to her.
> >
> never seen the show. we always clueless when it comes to shows and movies.
>
> > OK. That's all for now.
> >
> thanks for sharing
> seems like maybe you feeling lonely?
Yeah. Love my solitude but also get lonely. Difficult.
Maybe dinner soon and early bed? Hmmmm..
Juniper
Juniper
astri
maybe work on why it's challenging/frightening?
astri
> There weren't any strawberries at the farmers' market. I'll try
> again a different one on Tuesday, but I think the season's over.
> They're selling raspberries already.
can make from frozen strawberries?
Juniper
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jul 2009, Juniper wrote:
>
> > There weren't any strawberries at the farmers' market. I'll try
> > again a different one on Tuesday, but I think the season's over.
> > They're selling raspberries already.
>
> can make from frozen strawberries?
Uh.... ick. No.
J.
Juniper
Yabbut, no news there. I'm used to my own space and having control over
time. Reluctant to give away any piece of control. Plus lots of
hesitancy about s*x. It's been a long time, I'm inexperienced with
women, last girlfriend (20+ years ago) it brought up childhood stuff.
Juniper
astri
oh
astri
maybe work on why you're so frozen?
Juniper
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Juniper wrote:
> > In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.09...@malasada.lava.net>,
> > astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>> As someone said, yes, I am feeling lonely. I really enjoy alone
> >>> time and had to push myself to go to a neighbor's bbq this
> >>> afternoon, but I'm also lonely. I wish there were someone who was
> >>> interested in my deep stuff on an ongoing basis. Right now I sort
> >>> of have someone on a once a week basis, and that's W. I have lots
> >>> of friends, but no committed friend of the heart. I've been
> >>> playing "come here/go away" with the idea of dating, and I'm not
> >>> finding sparks with anyone. When Facebook friends want to get
> >>> together for us to meet, I tend to be busy. Why bother? No-one
> >>> else has clicked, so why should they? I wish I had a best friend or
> >>> a girlfriend. Except that the idea of having a girlfriend is
> >>> challenging/threatening too. *sigh*
> >>
> >> maybe work on why it's challenging/frightening?
> >
> > Yabbut, no news there. I'm used to my own space and having control
> > over time. Reluctant to give away any piece of control. Plus lots
> > of hesitancy about s*x. It's been a long time, I'm inexperienced
> > with women, last girlfriend (20+ years ago) it brought up childhood
> > stuff.
>
> maybe work on why you're so frozen?
He thinks I need my meds adjusted. I'm reluctant to admit that because
it's been only about 6 months since we last had to do that, and that
scares me. Plus I'm starting to think I need to be tested for sleep
apnea. I'm tired all the time, and I snore like a freight engine.
Juniper
astri
sigh
Puddles
We have the whole series taped on DVR. Not sure how to transfer it to
DVD yet. we like the mean jet pilot guy too but sophie is the favorite.
Wait till you see what happens. its good!
fuzzy
it sounds to me like there's still work for you to do in t. which means
seeing W is a good thing and you will also be getting that attention you
wanted
heh, how's that for twisty
Juniper
Puddles <allthe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We have the whole series taped on DVR. Not sure how to transfer it to
> DVD yet. we like the mean jet pilot guy too but sophie is the favorite.
Is that actress amazing? She reminds me of Claire Danes when she was a
kid.
> Wait till you see what happens. its good!
Oooh! I cannot *stand* Alex! He is so arrogant! When he brought in
that espresso machine I wanted Paul to tell him to take it out and leave
it in the yard. What a *nerve*!
Last episode I saw was the one when Sophie comes in all dressed up after
staying up all night, does the balance beam stuff on the back of the
couch, remembers the accident, goes into the bathroom, and then
experiences the results as she tries to leave. Not giving too many
spoilers in case someone else starts watching. Oh, and that Gina
episode was the one when she tells him he's in a safe place and he says,
"x xxxx xxx." Personally, I think he has terrible taste, but he didn't
ask me. I don't care for Laura very much. She's a tramp. Ooooh! Did
I say that? And don't you love how he misrepresents what he and other
people have said? Pretty funny to hear him give a different version
when we heard what he really said. :-)
I do want to shake the writers, though. I am so sick of listening to
people talk about infatuation and call it "love." Please. And for
therapists not to know that infatuation isn't love? Plus, they're
effing Freudians! Eeeewww!
Only the first year is out on DVD. If you figure out how to copy over
the second year (it's just two years so far, yes?), may I have a copy,
pretty please with sugar and cream on top? Of course I'm not yet half
way through the first season, but I expect I'll still be addicted to it
after five more discs (one "week" per disk). How was it shown? A
session a night? One a week? Hmmm... my math says two a week?
No more for two days, since they haven't said they've mailed the next
disk yet. *pout*
Juniper
Juniper
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, there was no thought that I'd leave therapy, although I thought he
might throw me out if I didn't work properly toward my goals (long
story). It's the principle of the thing about not getting "better" as a
way of not losing him. I have *no* desire to leave, and he's not
tossing me. It's all a meta-discussion.
Juniper
EB
listening to ya and just ordered in treatment on netflix. yay!
umm. but about that other stuff....i have no brilliant thoughts.
i missed what happened with that one relationship that was kinda
starting a few months ago? with that one woman?
also, if you're in a role of being in m*nistry, is it hard for you to
be vulnerable with folks since people tend to see you in a leadership
role?
just thoughts late at night.
Juniper
<85720a9e-e76e-4299...@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
EB <hopec...@live.com> wrote:
> listening to ya and just ordered in treatment on netflix. yay!
I talked to W. about it a little tonight. He's back from the first
mini-vacation. He says he can't watch it because to him th*rapy is
s*cred, and if someone wants to know what being In Treatment is like,
they should go In Treatment themselves. Plus, it's what he does, so
he's not interested. It's like how I have no desire to watch "The
Office."
> umm. but about that other stuff....i have no brilliant thoughts.
> i missed what happened with that one relationship that was kinda
> starting a few months ago? with that one woman?
L., the friend of a friend? She wasn't comfortable with the wide range
of friends I have, and we separated before anything happened.
> also, if you're in a role of being in m*nistry, is it hard for you to
> be vulnerable with folks since people tend to see you in a leadership
> role?
I'm not going to be in any official kind of ministry. That was put an
end to last June by others and this past January by me. So I don't need
to worry about that. The anniversary of the horrible meeting last June
was a few weeks ago, and I basically wept my way through the weekend.
That helped a lot.
> just thoughts late at night.
Hokey dokey. ;-)
Before I saw W. I got in to see my psydoc on a cancellation, and we
switching my meds again. I've been really struggling for a few weeks,
but I didn't want to admit they were pooping out because it's been only
5 months since my last SSRI poop-out. I admitted to him that the short
time it was OK scared me, but he said my bouncing hormones (I'm in
peri-menopause) were probably having some complicating effect, and that
relieved some of my fear.
As I go off Celexa and simultaneously ramp up on Zoloft, I hope I'll
start getting my zip and optimism back. Blah.
OK. I'm off to watch week 6 of "In Treatment."
Juniper
fuzzy
> In article
> <85720a9e-e76e-4299...@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
> EB <hopec...@live.com> wrote:
>
>> also, if you're in a role of being in m*nistry, is it hard for you to
>> be vulnerable with folks since people tend to see you in a leadership
>> role?
>
> I'm not going to be in any official kind of ministry. That was put an
> end to last June by others and this past January by me. So I don't need
> to worry about that. The anniversary of the horrible meeting last June
> was a few weeks ago, and I basically wept my way through the weekend.
> That helped a lot.
>
>> just thoughts late at night.
>
> Hokey dokey. ;-)
>
> Before I saw W. I got in to see my psydoc on a cancellation, and we
> switching my meds again. I've been really struggling for a few weeks,
> but I didn't want to admit they were pooping out because it's been only
> 5 months since my last SSRI poop-out. I admitted to him that the short
> time it was OK scared me, but he said my bouncing hormones (I'm in
> peri-menopause) were probably having some complicating effect, and that
> relieved some of my fear.
>
oh, that does make sense
> As I go off Celexa and simultaneously ramp up on Zoloft, I hope I'll
> start getting my zip and optimism back. Blah.
>
that would be good
Juniper
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, really good. Except the pharmacist wouldn't let me have the
Zoloft because I was also filling my prescription for Imitrex, and the
two *can* interact at high doses. Except it can interact with Celexa,
too, and she let me have the Celexa! And I explained that my MD had
discussed serotonin syndrome with me, and I knew all about it. But she
wouldn't believe me and wouldn't let me have it until they talked to my
doctor. But it's Friday, and my doctor is on vacation for a week now.
I told them that since I wasn't scheduled to start the Zoloft until
Monday, they had until then, but if they wouldn't fill my prescription
on Monday I was taking it to a pharmacy where they would fill it.
I got massively triggered by it. They wouldn't let me have the meds I
fought myself to go to the psydoc and get, and they wouldn't believe me
when I said I knew what I was doing. That sends me into a horrible
place where I feel stuff that I don't want to describe here because I
might trigger someone else. Basically having no control and someone
else having all control over me. Horrifying and rage-inducing and
terrifying. I was going to go to my favorite Chinese restaurant for
take-out, but I was on the edge of bursting into tears or screaming or
hitting someone, so I basically just breathed until I got home. I can't
stand feeling this.
Going to go watch some TV and try to calm down.
Juniper
astri
> Yeah, really good. Except the pharmacist wouldn't let me have the
> Zoloft because I was also filling my prescription for Imitrex, and
> the two *can* interact at high doses. Except it can interact with
> Celexa, too, and she let me have the Celexa! And I explained that my
> MD had discussed serotonin syndrome with me, and I knew all about it.
> But she wouldn't believe me and wouldn't let me have it until they
> talked to my doctor. But it's Friday, and my doctor is on vacation
> for a week now. I told them that since I wasn't scheduled to start
> the Zoloft until Monday, they had until then, but if they wouldn't
> fill my prescription on Monday I was taking it to a pharmacy where
> they would fill it.
definitely
> I got massively triggered by it. They wouldn't let me have the meds
> I fought myself to go to the psydoc and get, and they wouldn't
> believe me when I said I knew what I was doing. That sends me into a
> horrible place where I feel stuff that I don't want to describe here
> because I might trigger someone else. Basically having no control
> and someone else having all control over me. Horrifying and
> rage-inducing and terrifying. I was going to go to my favorite
> Chinese restaurant for take-out, but I was on the edge of bursting
> into tears or screaming or hitting someone, so I basically just
> breathed until I got home. I can't stand feeling this.
is ok to get mad
is too bad that just interfered with treating yourself
> Going to go watch some TV and try to calm down.
did it help?
fuzzy
so, that means tomorrow?
> I got massively triggered by it. They wouldn't let me have the meds I
> fought myself to go to the psydoc and get, and they wouldn't believe me
> when I said I knew what I was doing. That sends me into a horrible
> place where I feel stuff that I don't want to describe here because I
> might trigger someone else. Basically having no control and someone
> else having all control over me. Horrifying and rage-inducing and
> terrifying. I was going to go to my favorite Chinese restaurant for
> take-out, but I was on the edge of bursting into tears or screaming or
> hitting someone, so I basically just breathed until I got home. I can't
> stand feeling this.
>
understandable reaction. wish we'd seen this earlier. how you doing?
> Going to go watch some TV and try to calm down.
>
k
<offers you a blankie>
EB
> In article <7bnrajF24h6s...@mid.individual.net>,> > > <85720a9e-e76e-4299-8efd-9a503bdd6...@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
:(
does sound like the feelings triggered by this might be a key to
something -- maybe, if you feel comfortable, you could go under a
spoiler and talk about them -- or bring it to your therapist.
i feel this rage sometimes too. for me, it is particularly strong when
i get things like spam or pop-up adds that won't go away. it triggers
strong feelings of feeling personally considered stupid and an object
and triggers intense feelings of invasion, no matter what i want or
like.
for me, when i have that kind of rage, it's an important key to
something in my past.
hope this didn't sound pr*achy. just caught my attention.
EB
Juniper, I'm now totally *hooked* on In Treatment. I'm talking
watching episodes over and over, looking for commentary on the dvd,
analyzing micro-expressions.
i love this show!!! and i've only seen the first two episodes. utterly
mesmerizing.
EB
i watch sophie next -- i really like alex though, the jet pilot guy. i
relate maybe to his fast thinking talking assessing whether the
therapist is good enough running from feelings and connection. yup.
overachiever, fast talker, always ahead of the game, impossible to
reach. a part of me is certainly that.