t and parts
wolfie of confuzzled
picked her is because she knows about DID so she can't ignore that. so
she's going to talk about parts. but she also doesn't want to go to
fast. she says she is going to be direct with us and say things but we
can tell her to stop. she said that she hasn't seen any parts but part
of why she has to talk about it is because they may be listening and she
wants them to know it's ok to talk. she said it's ok for the to hide and
if they always and and never came out that would be ok too.
we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except *I*
didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not afraid of
sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of a joke
I wanted to ask her if she thought I was just being stubborn. she said
I'm waiting and trying to decide if I can trust her and she knows it's
really hard.
and we talked a lot about the br*ther and I told her about the last
nightmare I had about him. I couldn't tell her about the really bad one
(him and the pillow). I guess we kind of wanted to but can't *say* that one.
she asked us to email the things we didn't/couldn't say.
cometz
think she sounds like a keeper. think she wants youse to feel safe.
seems she knows patience. that's a good thing. yes.
astri
> t explained today that she was trying to be careful. that the reason
> we picked her is because she knows about DID so she can't ignore
> that. so she's going to talk about parts. but she also doesn't want
> to go to fast. she says she is going to be direct with us and say
> things but we can tell her to stop. she said that she hasn't seen any
> parts but part of why she has to talk about it is because they may be
> listening and she wants them to know it's ok to talk. she said it's
> ok for the to hide and if they always and and never came out that
> would be ok too.
>
> we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except
> *I* didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not
> afraid of sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of a
> joke
heh
> I wanted to ask her if she thought I was just being stubborn. she
> said I'm waiting and trying to decide if I can trust her and she
> knows it's really hard.
true
> and we talked a lot about the br*ther and I told her about the last
> nightmare I had about him. I couldn't tell her about the really bad
> one (him and the pillow). I guess we kind of wanted to but can't
> *say* that one.
>
> she asked us to email the things we didn't/couldn't say.
might be easier to start that way
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
confuzzled
told t we saw the guy. on sunday. at closing time when we were all along
at work. the one who tried to h*g us. t calling him the boundry breaker.
heh.
well.. first we saw his dog. it was right outside our window. so we knew
broundary breaker had to be there but we didnt know *where*. then we saw
him right outside door. we didn't know if he was gonna come in. he jsut
stood there for a few minutes. then someone else came up so he'd been
waiting. then they still stood there for a bit and we just keep waiting
to see if they were gonna come in and then finally they walked on by
we told t. and we told her it didn't bother at us at all. heh!! and t
said what baout other parts and guess we ened up saying some part really
scared. except don't think we used that word cuz dont like that word.
we had it mostly put away! didnt have to tell her
(yes, we know that doesnt work)
is just too much.
really wish it would all go way
(or we could go way)
and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
shouldn't say
and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to hard to tell all
then and now and different parts and what they said mixed together \
dont wanna be aliar.
astri
> dunno if we said. think maybe we didn't tell beofre
>
> told t we saw the guy. on sunday. at closing time when we were all
> along at work. the one who tried to h*g us. t calling him the boundry
> breaker. heh.
good name
> well.. first we saw his dog. it was right outside our window. so we
> knew broundary breaker had to be there but we didnt know *where*.
> then we saw him right outside door. we didn't know if he was gonna
> come in. he jsut stood there for a few minutes. then someone else
> came up so he'd been waiting. then they still stood there for a bit
> and we just keep waiting to see if they were gonna come in and then
> finally they walked on by
>
> we told t. and we told her it didn't bother at us at all. heh!! and t
> said what baout other parts and guess we ened up saying some part
> really scared. except don't think we used that word cuz dont like
> that word.
:/
> we had it mostly put away! didnt have to tell her
> (yes, we know that doesnt work)
(we still see the stupid guy in the park bathroom)
(even less happened than what you're talking about)
> is just too much.
> really wish it would all go way
> (or we could go way)
understand
> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
> shouldn't say and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to
> hard to tell all then and now and different parts and what they said
> mixed together \ dont wanna be aliar.
don't think you're a liar.
think there are clashing perspectives
Baba Yaga
wrote:
[...]
> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
> shouldn't say
> and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to hard to tell all
> then and now and different parts and what they said mixed together \
> dont wanna be aliar.
confusion /= lies.
dissension /= lies.
error /= lies.
(not that that last one applies, in this case.)
Baba Yaga
russiandolly
<nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> t explained today that she was trying to be careful. that the reason we
> picked her is because she knows about DID so she can't ignore that. so
> she's going to talk about parts. but she also doesn't want to go to
> fast. she says she is going to be direct with us and say things but we
> can tell her to stop. she said that she hasn't seen any parts but part
> of why she has to talk about it is because they may be listening and she
> wants them to know it's ok to talk. she said it's ok for the to hide and
> if they always and and never came out that would be ok too.
>
new t has never seen us either. we talk about each other, but never
talk ourselves!
neg was very upset when old staff at old house said that we didn't
exist because they never saw us
(cat in the box anyone...?)
but we know it's about trust, ans they were never welcome there
anyway.
edging around scared maybe she'll get to see them soon
we know she will, we reacting to panic and loss of control by
tightening the reins on stuff we control - food, exercise,
everything.
jill
works best for you and she will keep up.
Our bestest t'pist once told us that he never expected us to trust
him. It wasn't required. It was his job to be trustworthy and if that
wasn't good enough for us, that was his problem, not ours.
Clearly acknowledging that you trust your t'pist isn't necessary to
heal. I didn't tell him that until about 6 _months_ ago in a letter!
He wrote back a really nice letter that said he was honored to know
that he was trustworthy enough :)
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
In article <7kv7poF...@mid.individual.net>,
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
ji...@tuells.org
astri
> this t'pist sounds like a keeper :) You just keep going the speed that
> works best for you and she will keep up.
>
> Our bestest t'pist once told us that he never expected us to trust
> him. It wasn't required. It was his job to be trustworthy and if that
> wasn't good enough for us, that was his problem, not ours.
yah
our t doesn't expect us to trust her either
> Clearly acknowledging that you trust your t'pist isn't necessary to
> heal. I didn't tell him that until about 6 _months_ ago in a letter!
> He wrote back a really nice letter that said he was honored to know
> that he was trustworthy enough :)
:)
confuzzled
> On Oct 30, 12:19 am, wolfie of confuzzled
> <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> t explained today that she was trying to be careful. that the reason we
>> picked her is because she knows about DID so she can't ignore that. so
>> she's going to talk about parts. but she also doesn't want to go to
>> fast. she says she is going to be direct with us and say things but we
>> can tell her to stop. she said that she hasn't seen any parts but part
>> of why she has to talk about it is because they may be listening and she
>> wants them to know it's ok to talk. she said it's ok for the to hide and
>> if they always and and never came out that would be ok too.
<....>
>> she asked us to email the things we didn't/couldn't say.
>
> think she sounds like a keeper. think she wants youse to feel safe.
> seems she knows patience. that's a good thing. yes.
wish we could just appreciate we found a good t instead of having such a
big jumble of feelings
wolfie emailed her today. was like a cure email :P
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>
>> t explained today that she was trying to be careful. that the reason
>> we picked her is because she knows about DID so she can't ignore
>> that. so she's going to talk about parts. but she also doesn't want
>> to go to fast. she says she is going to be direct with us and say
>> things but we can tell her to stop. she said that she hasn't seen any
>> parts but part of why she has to talk about it is because they may be
>> listening and she wants them to know it's ok to talk. she said it's
>> ok for the to hide and if they always and and never came out that
>> would be ok too.
>>
>> we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except
>> *I* didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not
>> afraid of sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of a
>> joke
>
> heh
it was never like that with pdoc. with pdoc t sometimes our head would
get buzzy and I know sometimes the others were listening but it was *me*
talking to him
with her, sometimes is so busy inside and can hear everyone and it
sounds like lots of flipping party happening inside my head with all
these voices and they keep trying to get out and we end up with big
headaches
>
>> I wanted to ask her if she thought I was just being stubborn. she
>> said I'm waiting and trying to decide if I can trust her and she
>> knows it's really hard.
>
> true
>
<sigh>
>> and we talked a lot about the br*ther and I told her about the last
>> nightmare I had about him. I couldn't tell her about the really bad
>> one (him and the pillow). I guess we kind of wanted to but can't
>> *say* that one.
>>
>> she asked us to email the things we didn't/couldn't say.
>
> might be easier to start that way
>
I sent her an email. :/
astri
> wish we could just appreciate we found a good t instead of having
> such a big jumble of feelings
but this is normal
> wolfie emailed her today. was like a cure email :P
heh
is a way to start
she reply?
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>
>>> we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except
>>> *I* didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not
>>> afraid of sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of
>>> a joke
>>
>> heh
>
> it was never like that with pdoc. with pdoc t sometimes our head
> would get buzzy and I know sometimes the others were listening but it
> was *me* talking to him
is how it was with him
> with her, sometimes is so busy inside and can hear everyone and it
> sounds like lots of flipping party happening inside my head with all
> these voices and they keep trying to get out and we end up with big
> headaches
might not get such big headaches if you didn't fight so hard :/
(easy to say)
>>> I wanted to ask her if she thought I was just being stubborn. she
>>> said I'm waiting and trying to decide if I can trust her and she
>>> knows it's really hard.
>>
>> true
>>
> <sigh>
>
>>> she asked us to email the things we didn't/couldn't say.
>>
>> might be easier to start that way
>>
> I sent her an email. :/
how did that go?
confuzzled
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
>> dunno if we said. think maybe we didn't tell beofre
>>
>> told t we saw the guy. on sunday. at closing time when we were all
>> along at work. the one who tried to h*g us. t calling him the boundry
>> breaker. heh.
>
> good name
>
>> well.. first we saw his dog. it was right outside our window. so we
>> knew broundary breaker had to be there but we didnt know *where*.
>> then we saw him right outside door. we didn't know if he was gonna
>> come in. he jsut stood there for a few minutes. then someone else
>> came up so he'd been waiting. then they still stood there for a bit
>> and we just keep waiting to see if they were gonna come in and then
>> finally they walked on by
>>
>> we told t. and we told her it didn't bother at us at all. heh!! and t
>> said what baout other parts and guess we ened up saying some part
>> really scared. except don't think we used that word cuz dont like
>> that word.
>
> :/
>
<sigh>
>> we had it mostly put away! didnt have to tell her
>> (yes, we know that doesnt work)
>
> (we still see the stupid guy in the park bathroom)
> (even less happened than what you're talking about)
>
what happened to you still matters
<...>
>> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
>> shouldn't say and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to
>> hard to tell all then and now and different parts and what they said
>> mixed together \ dont wanna be aliar.
>
> don't think you're a liar.
> think there are clashing perspectives
>
we really don't know how much of the freak out about boundary breaker is
now stuff and how much is then stuff.
wolfie of confuzzled
that lying
confuzzled
> On Oct 30, 4:19 am, wolfie of confuzzled
> <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> t explained today that she was trying to be careful. that the reason we
>> picked her is because she knows about DID so she can't ignore that. so
>> she's going to talk about parts. but she also doesn't want to go to
>> fast. she says she is going to be direct with us and say things but we
>> can tell her to stop. she said that she hasn't seen any parts but part
>> of why she has to talk about it is because they may be listening and she
>> wants them to know it's ok to talk. she said it's ok for the to hide and
>> if they always and and never came out that would be ok too.
>>
>
> new t has never seen us either. we talk about each other, but never
> talk ourselves!
yes
> neg was very upset when old staff at old house said that we didn't
> exist because they never saw us
> (cat in the box anyone...?)
heh
> but we know it's about trust, ans they were never welcome there
> anyway.
> edging around scared maybe she'll get to see them soon
> we know she will, we reacting to panic and loss of control by
> tightening the reins on stuff we control - food, exercise,
> everything.
>
regrets
completely understand
would be so much easier if we didn't have to hide and could talk to t
but ... but maybe not. is like astri said, moving forward with eyes shut
yelling "no no no"
we been talking with t about parts and at the same time denying them. we
sort of laugh while we do it because the whole thing is so ridiculous.
wolfie of confuzzled
> this t'pist sounds like a keeper :) You just keep going the speed that
> works best for you and she will keep up.
>
want slower
she keeps checking in though. she says the first most important thing is
we feel safe in that office
> Our bestest t'pist once told us that he never expected us to trust
> him. It wasn't required. It was his job to be trustworthy and if that
> wasn't good enough for us, that was his problem, not ours.
>
think our t would agree with that idea.
> Clearly acknowledging that you trust your t'pist isn't necessary to
> heal. I didn't tell him that until about 6 _months_ ago in a letter!
> He wrote back a really nice letter that said he was honored to know
> that he was trustworthy enough :)
>
:) that's very cool
astri
but nothing happened
> <...>
>>> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
>>> shouldn't say and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to
>>> hard to tell all then and now and different parts and what they said
>>> mixed together \ dont wanna be aliar.
>>
>> don't think you're a liar.
>> think there are clashing perspectives
>>
> we really don't know how much of the freak out about boundary breaker
> is now stuff and how much is then stuff.
yes
but is real
astri
lying is saying something untrue with the knowledge that it is untrue
and the intention to deceive
astri
> we been talking with t about parts and at the same time denying them.
> we sort of laugh while we do it because the whole thing is so
> ridiculous.
is good to see the absurdity in life
Juniper
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
> > Baba Yaga wrote:
> >> On Oct 30, 6:17 am, confuzzled <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
> >>> shouldn't say
> >>> and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to hard to tell all
> >>> then and now and different parts and what they said mixed together \
> >>> dont wanna be aliar.
> >>
> >> confusion /= lies.
> >> dissension /= lies.
> >> error /= lies.
> >> (not that that last one applies, in this case.)
> >>
> > ok, what if someone inside says something you know isn't true. isn't
> > that lying
>
> lying is saying something untrue with the knowledge that it is untrue
> and the intention to deceive
And apparently that's not always lying. Once I left stuff out of an
answer to W. or otherwise didn't reply accurately, knowing it wasn't
accurate, and intending him not to know, and then later I apologized for
lying to him about it, and he said it wasn't lying.
So maybe intent has to be malicious to be a lie?
J.
astri
would disagree with him
but lying protectively isn't always or necessarily morally bad
> So maybe intent has to be malicious to be a lie?
where does that leave white lies?
protective lies?
the motivation behind the intent to deceive doesn't have to be
malicious
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
>> wish we could just appreciate we found a good t instead of having
>> such a big jumble of feelings
>
> but this is normal
<sigh>
>
>> wolfie emailed her today. was like a cure email :P
>
> heh
>
> is a way to start
> she reply?
>
today
"All good questions : )
First it is important to get a grasp of what "normal" is... Normal for
what? Is normal what 51% of all people experience (48% abnormal?) or
more stastistically speaking what 66% of people experience (33.333% of
others falling into the abnormal range)?
What is normal for a psyche repeatedly traumatized in childhood?
More later ; )"
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>
>>>> we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except
>>>> *I* didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not
>>>> afraid of sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of
>>>> a joke
>>>
>>> heh
>>
>> it was never like that with pdoc. with pdoc t sometimes our head
>> would get buzzy and I know sometimes the others were listening but it
>> was *me* talking to him
>
> is how it was with him
>
>> with her, sometimes is so busy inside and can hear everyone and it
>> sounds like lots of flipping party happening inside my head with all
>> these voices and they keep trying to get out and we end up with big
>> headaches
>
> might not get such big headaches if you didn't fight so hard :/
> (easy to say)
>
:P
seems like if I don't... hold them back is just going to be chaos.
>>>> I wanted to ask her if she thought I was just being stubborn. she
>>>> said I'm waiting and trying to decide if I can trust her and she
>>>> knows it's really hard.
>>>
>>> true
>>>
>> <sigh>
>>
>>>> she asked us to email the things we didn't/couldn't say.
>>>
>>> might be easier to start that way
>>>
>> I sent her an email. :/
>
> how did that go?
>
just replied in other post
have to think about her reply
wolfie of confuzzled
something to you and stirred up then stuff. that all matters
>> <...>
>>>> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
>>>> shouldn't say and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to
>>>> hard to tell all then and now and different parts and what they said
>>>> mixed together \ dont wanna be aliar.
>>>
>>> don't think you're a liar.
>>> think there are clashing perspectives
>>>
>> we really don't know how much of the freak out about boundary breaker
>> is now stuff and how much is then stuff.
>
> yes
> but is real
>
:/
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> Baba Yaga wrote:
>>> On Oct 30, 6:17 am, confuzzled <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
>>>> shouldn't say
>>>> and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to hard to tell all
>>>> then and now and different parts and what they said mixed together \
>>>> dont wanna be aliar.
>>>
>>> confusion /= lies.
>>> dissension /= lies.
>>> error /= lies.
>>> (not that that last one applies, in this case.)
>>>
>> ok, what if someone inside says something you know isn't true. isn't
>> that lying
>
> lying is saying something untrue with the knowledge that it is untrue
> and the intention to deceive
>
outside of asd and T no one understands though
I was thinking... seems like things were better in a way before we found
asd. not saying asd is a problem because don't believe that. but things
have gotten more noisy and less under control. it's gone from parts to
people to us all over the place. if it's like that with asd, what's it
going to be like if we let ourself be many with t?
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
>> we been talking with t about parts and at the same time denying them.
>> we sort of laugh while we do it because the whole thing is so
>> ridiculous.
>
> is good to see the absurdity in life
>
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>
>>> wish we could just appreciate we found a good t instead of having
>>> such a big jumble of feelings
>>
>> but this is normal
>
> <sigh>
mmmm
>>> wolfie emailed her today. was like a cure email :P
>>
>> heh
>>
>> is a way to start
>> she reply?
>>
> today
>
> "All good questions : )
> First it is important to get a grasp of what "normal" is... Normal
> for what? Is normal what 51% of all people experience (48%
> abnormal?) or more stastistically speaking what 66% of people
> experience (33.333% of others falling into the abnormal range)?
>
> What is normal for a psyche repeatedly traumatized in childhood?
oooh
bet you didn't like that last question
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>> astri wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except
>>>>> *I* didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not
>>>>> afraid of sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of
>>>>> a joke
>>>>
>>>> heh
>>>
>>> it was never like that with pdoc. with pdoc t sometimes our head
>>> would get buzzy and I know sometimes the others were listening but it
>>> was *me* talking to him
>>
>> is how it was with him
>>
> and is different with new t. <sigh>
yes
>>> with her, sometimes is so busy inside and can hear everyone and it
>>> sounds like lots of flipping party happening inside my head with all
>>> these voices and they keep trying to get out and we end up with big
>>> headaches
>>
>> might not get such big headaches if you didn't fight so hard :/
>> (easy to say)
>>
> :P
>
> seems like if I don't... hold them back is just going to be chaos.
prolly not all the time
think you'll still do the needed functional stuff
and doesn't it get a bit chaotic now sometimes?
>>> I sent her an email. :/
>>
>> how did that go?
>>
> just replied in other post
>
> have to think about her reply
k
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>> astri wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (we still see the stupid guy in the park bathroom)
>>>> (even less happened than what you're talking about)
>>>>
>>> what happened to you still matters
>>
>> but nothing happened
>>
> seems like something happened. was definitely creepy and it felt like
> something to you and stirred up then stuff. that all matters
:P
astri
prolly a bit messy
we didn't start really getting better until we got a t who started
working with all of us
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>>
>>>> wolfie emailed her today. was like a cure email :P
>>>
>>> heh
>>>
>>> is a way to start
>>> she reply?
>>>
>> today
>>
>> "All good questions : )
>> First it is important to get a grasp of what "normal" is... Normal
>> for what? Is normal what 51% of all people experience (48%
>> abnormal?) or more stastistically speaking what 66% of people
>> experience (33.333% of others falling into the abnormal range)?
>>
>> What is normal for a psyche repeatedly traumatized in childhood?
>
> oooh
>
> bet you didn't like that last question
>
... and we've barely said anything to her about our childhood so she
can't really know that :P
astri
maybe she was throwing that out there as another invitation?
russiandolly
wrote:
t said perhaps 'now is not the time' cos she saw us getting impatient
she said she was feeling that we felt a need to keep things together,
as in cope with all of our new changes
negotiator said that she wasn't leaving until everything was sorted,
meaning that everyone else can get their time out in session, but only
when she is happy that we-all can keep the flat going and manage all
of our routine stuff.
so we've been trying really hard to make sure 'life' is o an even
keel, because think neg knows the potential that everyone talking will
create disruption. need solid and stability to withstand it.
russiandolly
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Juniper wrote:
think 'lieing' (?) is one of those heavily loaded words, and the
connotations of 'liar' are bad ones.
is ok to not say things sometimes, perhaps replacing that word with a
different one helps,
like we lied to t by missing out parts of the answer to "are you
eating ok? have you h*rt yourself recently"
and yeah, we did lie, you could call it 'omitting a bit' if you want a
euphamism, or you could say that it wasn't something we were ready to
face or talk about.
doesn't make us a bad person.
russiandolly
think is part of the process
things getting 'worse' , well, ok, harder, before they get better
sigh
Baba Yaga
away, and all the messages which we read on google unread in our
newreader. mummy.
wolfie of confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote, in
alt.support.dissociation:
only if that someone also knows it isn't true.
even if he knows that you believe it to be untrue, but he believes
it's true, that isn't lying.
Baba Yaga
--
External things are no more like the perceptions they give rise to,
than wine is similar to intoxication, or opium to the delirium which
it produces.
- John Playfair
Baba Yaga
alt.support.dissociation:
[...]
>so we've been trying really hard to make sure 'life' is o an even
>keel, because think neg knows the potential that everyone talking will
>create disruption. need solid and stability to withstand it.
is true.
is good awareness.
astri
> t said perhaps 'now is not the time' cos she saw us getting impatient
> she said she was feeling that we felt a need to keep things together,
> as in cope with all of our new changes
>
> negotiator said that she wasn't leaving until everything was sorted,
> meaning that everyone else can get their time out in session, but only
> when she is happy that we-all can keep the flat going and manage all
> of our routine stuff.
> so we've been trying really hard to make sure 'life' is o an even
> keel, because think neg knows the potential that everyone talking will
> create disruption. need solid and stability to withstand it.
yes!
astri
>>
>> would disagree with him
>> but lying protectively isn't always or necessarily morally bad
>>
>>> So maybe intent has to be malicious to be a lie?
>>
>> where does that leave white lies?
>> protective lies?
>>
>> the motivation behind the intent to deceive doesn't have to be
>> malicious
>
> connotations of 'liar' are bad ones.
> is ok to not say things sometimes, perhaps replacing that word with a
> different one helps,
> like we lied to t by missing out parts of the answer to "are you
> eating ok? have you h*rt yourself recently"
> and yeah, we did lie, you could call it 'omitting a bit' if you want a
> euphamism, or you could say that it wasn't something we were ready to
> face or talk about.
> doesn't make us a bad person.
true
malicious intent makes it a bad act
fuzzy
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>>> astri wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> (we still see the stupid guy in the park bathroom)
>>>>> (even less happened than what you're talking about)
>>>>>
>>>> what happened to you still matters
>>>
>>> but nothing happened
>>>
>> seems like something happened. was definitely creepy and it felt like
>> something to you and stirred up then stuff. that all matters
>
> :P
>
regrets
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>
>> I was thinking... seems like things were better in a way before we
>> found asd. not saying asd is a problem because don't believe that.
>> but things have gotten more noisy and less under control. it's gone
>> from parts to people to us all over the place. if it's like that with
>> asd, what's it going to be like if we let ourself be many with t?
>
> prolly a bit messy
>
> we didn't start really getting better until we got a t who started
> working with all of us
>
fuzzy
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>> astri wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>>>>
>> <..>
>>>>>> wolfie emailed her today. was like a cure email :P
>>>>>
>>>>> heh
>>>>>
>>>>> is a way to start
>>>>> she reply?
>>>>>
>>>> today
>>>>
>>>> "All good questions : )
>>>> First it is important to get a grasp of what "normal" is... Normal
>>>> for what? Is normal what 51% of all people experience (48%
>>>> abnormal?) or more stastistically speaking what 66% of people
>>>> experience (33.333% of others falling into the abnormal range)?
>>>>
>>>> What is normal for a psyche repeatedly traumatized in childhood?
>>>
>>> oooh
>>>
>>> bet you didn't like that last question
>>>
>> no
>>
>> ... and we've barely said anything to her about our childhood so she
>> can't really know that :P
>
> maybe she was throwing that out there as another invitation?
>
fuzzy
makes sense
can be really hard to do though
> so we've been trying really hard to make sure 'life' is o an even
> keel, because think neg knows the potential that everyone talking will
> create disruption. need solid and stability to withstand it.
yes. understand that
but sometimes maybe can't get solid without the talking?
<sigh>
how you doing anyway, seems like hard times?
fuzzy
> whew. so now we have all the unread messages from before we went
> away, and all the messages which we read on google unread in our
> newreader. mummy.
>
astri
sigh
astri
things always go up and down
we were pretty bad off when we started with that t
didn't make us worse, really
astri
k
Sonata
> Baba Yaga wrote:
>> On Oct 30, 6:17 am, confuzzled <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> [...]
>>> and we *have to* sya sorry. cuz is just too much and is stuff we
>>> shouldn't say
>>> and maybe it is exaggeration. we dont know. gets to hard to tell all
>>> then and now and different parts and what they said mixed together \
>>> dont wanna be aliar.
>>
>> confusion /= lies.
>> dissension /= lies.
>> error /= lies.
>> (not that that last one applies, in this case.)
>>
> ok, what if someone inside says something you know isn't true. isn't
> that lying
what if it's true to them? It sounds like you guys have very different
internal realities.
Sonata
Maybe is like bottle of soda, life and tr*umas and things have been
bumping and shaking you guys around, and you're been holding bottling it
in, and if/when you let it out it''s explode and fizz all over the place
for a bit and then calm down to something more managable?
wolfie of confuzzled
this is a good metaphor. thank you
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>> astri wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> we talked about sleep a lot. we said "I;m afraid to sleep". Except
>>>>>> *I* didn't say that and I immediately said "no!" because I'm not
>>>>>> afraid of sleep. she said "who said that?" and then made it kind of
>>>>>> a joke
>>>>>
>>>>> heh
>>>>
>>>> it was never like that with pdoc. with pdoc t sometimes our head
>>>> would get buzzy and I know sometimes the others were listening but it
>>>> was *me* talking to him
>>>
>>> is how it was with him
>>>
>> and is different with new t. <sigh>
>
> yes
we saw pdoc t. we decided that pdoc t could be "mine". and we gonna see
pdoc t in 4 weeks which is probably sooner then we need because we have
t now (hmm... maybe we need to give her more of a name). pdoc t knows us
though and knows what this time of year is like.
and it's all weird and I don't really like that things work better with
new t but they do :( so, now I know and I guess maybe that's part of
what I'm learning because I'm going to have to tell pdoc t what I want.
and we didn't really do that this time but I guess now I know I can
does that make any sense?
>
>>>> with her, sometimes is so busy inside and can hear everyone and it
>>>> sounds like lots of flipping party happening inside my head with all
>>>> these voices and they keep trying to get out and we end up with big
>>>> headaches
>>>
>>> might not get such big headaches if you didn't fight so hard :/
>>> (easy to say)
>>>
>> :P
>>
>> seems like if I don't... hold them back is just going to be chaos.
>
> prolly not all the time
> think you'll still do the needed functional stuff
> and doesn't it get a bit chaotic now sometimes?
>
guess so
<sigh>
they... we... kept saying "we" with t yesterday. she didn't say anything
but know she noticed. it was more fuzzy then me and fuzzy said that
oscar could talk if he wanted and she was more front and I think if
oscar really wanted to he could have talked and I couldn't have stopped him.
Sonata
Glad it came out helpful! Never sure whether I'm making sense at all
when I start in with figurative language.
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>
> we saw pdoc t. we decided that pdoc t could be "mine". and we gonna
> see pdoc t in 4 weeks which is probably sooner then we need because
> we have t now (hmm... maybe we need to give her more of a name).
t works
> pdoc t knows us though and knows what this time of year is like.
>
> and it's all weird and I don't really like that things work better
> with new t but they do :( so, now I know and I guess maybe that's
> part of what I'm learning because I'm going to have to tell pdoc t
> what I want. and we didn't really do that this time but I guess now I
> know I can
what are you going to tell him you want?
> does that make any sense?
yes
>>> seems like if I don't... hold them back is just going to be chaos.
>>
>> prolly not all the time
>> think you'll still do the needed functional stuff
>> and doesn't it get a bit chaotic now sometimes?
>>
> guess so
> <sigh>
>
> they... we... kept saying "we" with t yesterday. she didn't say
> anything but know she noticed. it was more fuzzy then me and fuzzy
> said that oscar could talk if he wanted and she was more front and I
> think if oscar really wanted to he could have talked and I couldn't
> have stopped him.
yeah, he said that
guess he got a bit shy or something
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>
>> we saw pdoc t. we decided that pdoc t could be "mine". and we gonna
>> see pdoc t in 4 weeks which is probably sooner then we need because
>> we have t now (hmm... maybe we need to give her more of a name).
>
> t works
>
>> pdoc t knows us though and knows what this time of year is like.
>>
>> and it's all weird and I don't really like that things work better
>> with new t but they do :( so, now I know and I guess maybe that's
>> part of what I'm learning because I'm going to have to tell pdoc t
>> what I want. and we didn't really do that this time but I guess now I
>> know I can
>
> what are you going to tell him you want?
>
well, that should be a simple question
well the easy stuff. I want pdoc t to start with questions. not just sit
there and wait for me. so, to say that another way I think with pdoc t I
can focus on eating and sleep and over all coping. and I guess I don't
want to see him as much, except I guess I have mixed emotions on that. I
don't want to have to say goodbye to him but really, since we are seeing
t now I bet we could stretch out appts with pdoc t to every two or three
months.
does that make sense?
>> does that make any sense?
>
> yes
>
seems like I keep asking that.
<sigh>
>>>> seems like if I don't... hold them back is just going to be chaos.
>>>
>>> prolly not all the time
>>> think you'll still do the needed functional stuff
>>> and doesn't it get a bit chaotic now sometimes?
>>>
>> guess so
>> <sigh>
>>
>> they... we... kept saying "we" with t yesterday. she didn't say
>> anything but know she noticed. it was more fuzzy then me and fuzzy
>> said that oscar could talk if he wanted and she was more front and I
>> think if oscar really wanted to he could have talked and I couldn't
>> have stopped him.
>
> yeah, he said that
> guess he got a bit shy or something
>
he's not really front much. mostly he's just been front with foo. or he
comes front just short brief periods
but he says he's going to talk to her wednesday. :/
astri
yes
>>> does that make any sense?
>>
>> yes
>>
> seems like I keep asking that.
> <sigh>
heh
>>>>> seems like if I don't... hold them back is just going to be chaos.
>>>>
>>>> prolly not all the time
>>>> think you'll still do the needed functional stuff
>>>> and doesn't it get a bit chaotic now sometimes?
>>>>
>>> guess so
>>> <sigh>
>>>
>>> they... we... kept saying "we" with t yesterday. she didn't say
>>> anything but know she noticed. it was more fuzzy then me and fuzzy
>>> said that oscar could talk if he wanted and she was more front and
>>> I think if oscar really wanted to he could have talked and I
>>> couldn't have stopped him.
>>
>> yeah, he said that
>> guess he got a bit shy or something
>>
> he's not really front much. mostly he's just been front with foo. or
> he comes front just short brief periods
>
> but he says he's going to talk to her wednesday. :/
k