back home - replies would be welcome
Emerging Butterfly
i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional? do they think i'm bad
for having gone to steven's?
do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
i didn't.
really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
when i said i make things up
and um....sorry for using word enabling
saw in feedback no one here enables me
sorry
was fog speaking not me
can you see that?
can i still be on the group and do people like me?
astri
> i'm back home
good
> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
other(s) took over
> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional?
you're many
> do they think i'm bad
> for having gone to steven's?
isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
is a matter of it being bad *for* you
> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
> big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
> i didn't.
you're many
some others took over
> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
yup
you've got lots of walls between you
lots of co-amnesia
> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
> when i said i make things up
didn't believe you make things up
> and um....sorry for using word enabling
> saw in feedback no one here enables me
> sorry
> was fog speaking not me
> can you see that?
was someone else who shares your body speaking
think we can see that more clearly than you can
> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
sure
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
Emerging Butterfly
thanks for the reply
just wanted to say we're on a med right now so we don't think so good
(valium)
what is co amnesia?
Sonata
> i'm back home
>
> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>
> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional? do they think i'm bad
> for having gone to steven's?
Nope and nope.
>
> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
> big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
> i didn't.
You didn't do anything bad. Think was probably a trigger from old
patterns related to birthday and age, exacerbated by the new meds being
weird and the being very stable already.
>
> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>
> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
> when i said i make things up
> and um....sorry for using word enabling
> saw in feedback no one here enables me
> sorry
> was fog speaking not me
> can you see that?
think we haven't seen these posts yet so will hold off commenting (and
probably isn't directed at us anyway?)
>
> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
we like you, but guess we don't have much say there
ubiquity
Still like you. Only thing we can say about any of it is we glad you're
back.
--
-ubiquity
cometz
same replies as astri. kind of not talking so much. glad you are
home.
betsy
astri
> thanks for the reply
yw
> just wanted to say we're on a med right now so we don't think so good
> (valium)
:P
> what is co amnesia?
don't remember what the other does
Emerging Butterfly
> > i'm back home
>
> good
>
> > i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>
> other(s) took over
i don't know them at all and i have no idea how or what they think
and i'm still having amnesia and fog at home
stuff is getting eaten and i don't remember it
it scares me that stuff can happen that i have no memory of or control
over
what if someone is programmed to d*e and i'm not even aware of it?
i guess someone was last week and that's why they called steven?
>
> > do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional?
>
> you're many
so not delusional?
>
> > do they think i'm bad
> > for having gone to steven's?
>
> isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
> is a matter of it being bad *for* you
seemed okay for me
a little annoying but i'm still safe at least
that was scary not knowing if i could be safe
>
> > do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
> > big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
> > i didn't.
>
> you're many
> some others took over
i don't get it i thought i had control i was working very hard on
stuff
and then everything changed
i didn't get any warning at all
why did that happen?
and i work so hard and then....
well J says it seems like backlash from all the hard work done and
processing?
>
> > really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>
> yup
> you've got lots of walls between you
> lots of co-amnesia
*sighs*
i'm scared
i'm scared i can do everything in my power to be healthy and
independent
and then all this weird stuff happens and i have no knowledge or
control of how it works
and it seems it's been worse or more pronounced lately?
>
> > i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
> > when i said i make things up
>
> didn't believe you make things up
did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
>
> > and um....sorry for using word enabling
> > saw in feedback no one here enables me
> > sorry
> > was fog speaking not me
> > can you see that?
>
> was someone else who shares your body speaking
> think we can see that more clearly than you can
oh
i'm so scared
i don't know these other people
and *i'm* not multiple
why do they have to be here?
>
> > can i still be on the group and do people like me?
>
> sure
thanks
i've already said but i'm really scared
Emerging Butterfly
> Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > i'm back home
>
> > i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>
> > do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional? do they think i'm bad
> > for having gone to steven's?
>
> Nope and nope.
>
>
>
> > do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
> > big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
> > i didn't.
>
> You didn't do anything bad. Think was probably a trigger from old
> patterns related to birthday and age, exacerbated by the new meds being
> weird and the being very stable already.
but i try so *hard* to be stable
i work my butt off trying to process stuff and get away from bad
behaviors
i feel so helpless and scared now that i know for sure that i can lose
complete control
and that i have amnesia to things
it's scary
>
>
>
> > really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>
> > i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
> > when i said i make things up
> > and um....sorry for using word enabling
> > saw in feedback no one here enables me
> > sorry
> > was fog speaking not me
> > can you see that?
>
> think we haven't seen these posts yet so will hold off commenting (and
> probably isn't directed at us anyway?)
kinda directed at anyone who knows me
Emerging Butterfly
i really don't get what happened.
Emerging Butterfly
okay thank you betsy
Emerging Butterfly
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > thanks for the reply
>
> yw
>
> > just wanted to say we're on a med right now so we don't think so good
> > (valium)
>
> :P
>
> > what is co amnesia?
>
> don't remember what the other does
or thinks?
astri
> On Nov 9, 11:30 am, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> i'm back home
>>
>> good
>>
>>> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>>
>> other(s) took over
>
> i don't know them at all and i have no idea how or what they think
> and i'm still having amnesia and fog at home
> stuff is getting eaten and i don't remember it
> it scares me that stuff can happen that i have no memory of or control
> over
> what if someone is programmed to d*e and i'm not even aware of it?
> i guess someone was last week and that's why they called steven?
is very scary not to be able to control or know what you have been
doing or will be doing
>>> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional?
>>
>> you're many
>
> so not delusional?
think probably your rents implanted some delusions
dellusions don't equal psychotic
(think all of us here have some level of delusional thinking)
(think that's part of ptsd)
>>> do they think i'm bad
>>> for having gone to steven's?
>>
>> isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
>> is a matter of it being bad *for* you
>
> seemed okay for me
> a little annoying but i'm still safe at least
> that was scary not knowing if i could be safe
wish there had been a better way
>>> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
>>> big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
>>> i didn't.
>>
>> you're many
>> some others took over
>
> i don't get it i thought i had control i was working very hard on
> stuff
> and then everything changed
> i didn't get any warning at all
> why did that happen?
> and i work so hard and then....
> well J says it seems like backlash from all the hard work done and
> processing?
could well be some backlash
>>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>>
>> yup
>> you've got lots of walls between you
>> lots of co-amnesia
>
> *sighs*
> i'm scared
> i'm scared i can do everything in my power to be healthy and
> independent
> and then all this weird stuff happens and i have no knowledge or
> control of how it works
> and it seems it's been worse or more pronounced lately?
possibly
maybe cuz you've been working hard
wish you had a good t who understands who you could rely on
one of the ways a t can help is to be that observer who can know what
you're up to and help you learn to share it with each other
kind of a mediator
>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed
>>> me when i said i make things up
>>
>> didn't believe you make things up
>
> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
we know that people who see you in 3d have noted physical damage
>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>> sorry
>>> was fog speaking not me
>>> can you see that?
>>
>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>
> oh
> i'm so scared
> i don't know these other people
> and *i'm* not multiple
> why do they have to be here?
you live in a body that you share with others
>>> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
>>
>> sure
>
> thanks
> i've already said but i'm really scared
understandable
astri
> On Nov 9, 8:31 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>
>>> what is co amnesia?
>>
>> don't remember what the other does
>
> or thinks?
yes
emerging butterfly
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>> On Nov 9, 11:30 am, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>>> i'm back home
>>>
>>> good
>>>
>>>> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>>>
>>> other(s) took over
>>
>> i don't know them at all and i have no idea how or what they think
>> and i'm still having amnesia and fog at home
>> stuff is getting eaten and i don't remember it
>> it scares me that stuff can happen that i have no memory of or control
>> over
>> what if someone is programmed to d*e and i'm not even aware of it?
>> i guess someone was last week and that's why they called steven?
>
> is very scary not to be able to control or know what you have been
> doing or will be doing
yes!!
realizing can't even make plans cuz no idea what will happen
>
>>>> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional?
>>>
>>> you're many
>>
>> so not delusional?
>
> think probably your rents implanted some delusions
do you know any of em?
> dellusions don't equal psychotic
> (think all of us here have some level of delusional thinking)
> (think that's part of ptsd)
oh
so my kind of delusions are kinda "normal" for ptsd?
>
>>>> do they think i'm bad
>>>> for having gone to steven's?
>>>
>>> isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
>>> is a matter of it being bad *for* you
>>
>> seemed okay for me
>> a little annoying but i'm still safe at least
>> that was scary not knowing if i could be safe
>
> wish there had been a better way
was in ways better than hsptl -- they used to release me more sui. than
i started cuz they thought i was making things up and they were mean
steven believes me
except about being sick or not so able to work
he doesn't believe me on that
but he believes about the alters and pr*gramming and that helps lots
ok
>
> wish you had a good t who understands who you could rely on
>
> one of the ways a t can help is to be that observer who can know what
> you're up to and help you learn to share it with each other
> kind of a mediator
just called one today :)
and we have good psych. who stayed in touch with us
she does some th. too
>
>>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed
>>>> me when i said i make things up
>>>
>>> didn't believe you make things up
>>
>> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
>
> we know that people who see you in 3d have noted physical damage
really?
how you know that?
>
>>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>>> sorry
>>>> was fog speaking not me
>>>> can you see that?
>>>
>>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
>>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>>
>> oh
>> i'm so scared
>> i don't know these other people
>> and *i'm* not multiple
>> why do they have to be here?
>
> you live in a body that you share with others
but i don't *wanna*! *stomps foot*
i'm *one*!!
>
>>>> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
>>>
>>> sure
>>
>> thanks
>> i've already said but i'm really scared
>
> understandable
okay
are you many too?
astri
like you can make physical illness go away by being "good"
>> dellusions don't equal psychotic
>> (think all of us here have some level of delusional thinking)
>> (think that's part of ptsd)
>
> oh
> so my kind of delusions are kinda "normal" for ptsd?
something like that
>>>>> do they think i'm bad
>>>>> for having gone to steven's?
>>>>
>>>> isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
>>>> is a matter of it being bad *for* you
>>>
>>> seemed okay for me
>>> a little annoying but i'm still safe at least
>>> that was scary not knowing if i could be safe
>>
>> wish there had been a better way
>
> was in ways better than hsptl -- they used to release me more sui. than i
> started cuz they thought i was making things up and they were mean
> steven believes me
> except about being sick or not so able to work
> he doesn't believe me on that
> but he believes about the alters and pr*gramming and that helps lots
k
k
> and we have good psych. who stayed in touch with us
> she does some th. too
does she know any t's you can check out?
>>>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they
>>>>> believed me when i said i make things up
>>>>
>>>> didn't believe you make things up
>>>
>>> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
>>
>> we know that people who see you in 3d have noted physical damage
>
> really?
> how you know that?
you've reported it
and think maybe j has posted occasionally?
>>>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>>>> sorry
>>>>> was fog speaking not me
>>>>> can you see that?
>>>>
>>>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
>>>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>>>
>>> oh
>>> i'm so scared
>>> i don't know these other people
>>> and *i'm* not multiple
>>> why do they have to be here?
>>
>> you live in a body that you share with others
>
> but i don't *wanna*! *stomps foot*
> i'm *one*!!
:/
>>>>> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
>>>>
>>>> sure
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> i've already said but i'm really scared
>>
>> understandable
>
> okay
> are you many too?
yes
Shiyiya
> On Nov 9, 11:30 am, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> i'm back home
>> good
>>
>>> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>> other(s) took over
>
> i don't know them at all and i have no idea how or what they think
> and i'm still having amnesia and fog at home
> stuff is getting eaten and i don't remember it
> it scares me that stuff can happen that i have no memory of or control
> over
> what if someone is programmed to d*e and i'm not even aware of it?
> i guess someone was last week and that's why they called steven?
yes.
>
>>> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional?
>> you're many
>
> so not delusional?
no
>
>>> do they think i'm bad
>>> for having gone to steven's?
>> isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
>> is a matter of it being bad *for* you
>
> seemed okay for me
steven in general is an unhealthy person for you guys to be around, I think.
> a little annoying but i'm still safe at least
> that was scary not knowing if i could be safe
>
>>> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
>>> big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
>>> i didn't.
>> you're many
>> some others took over
>
> i don't get it i thought i had control i was working very hard on
> stuff
> and then everything changed
> i didn't get any warning at all
> why did that happen?
> and i work so hard and then....
> well J says it seems like backlash from all the hard work done and
> processing?
probably so.
>
>>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>> yup
>> you've got lots of walls between you
>> lots of co-amnesia
>
> *sighs*
> i'm scared
> i'm scared i can do everything in my power to be healthy and
> independent
> and then all this weird stuff happens and i have no knowledge or
> control of how it works
> and it seems it's been worse or more pronounced lately?
>
>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
>>> when i said i make things up
>> didn't believe you make things up
>
> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
I don't/didn't.
>
>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>> sorry
>>> was fog speaking not me
>>> can you see that?
>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>
> oh
> i'm so scared
> i don't know these other people
> and *i'm* not multiple
> why do they have to be here?
past tr*uma.
>
>>> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
>> sure
>
> thanks
> i've already said but i'm really scared
>
>
*offers hugs*
Sonata
> On Nov 9, 2:58 pm, Sonata <shiyiya.as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> i'm back home
>>> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>>> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional? do they think i'm bad
>>> for having gone to steven's?
>> Nope and nope.
>>
>>
>>
>>> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
>>> big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
>>> i didn't.
>> You didn't do anything bad. Think was probably a trigger from old
>> patterns related to birthday and age, exacerbated by the new meds being
>> weird and the being very stable already.
>
> but i try so *hard* to be stable
> i work my butt off trying to process stuff and get away from bad
> behaviors
> i feel so helpless and scared now that i know for sure that i can lose
> complete control
> and that i have amnesia to things
> it's scary
Doesn't make you bad, though. Just means there are those inside who are
still stuck in the past and in pr*gramming and out of control, and they
need to be worked with as well.
>
>>
>>
>>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
>>> when i said i make things up
>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>> sorry
>>> was fog speaking not me
>>> can you see that?
>> think we haven't seen these posts yet so will hold off commenting (and
>> probably isn't directed at us anyway?)
>
> kinda directed at anyone who knows me
wasn't fog hon, was just somebody else inside.
Sonata
Others were in control.
Sonata
which is dangerous
:)
> she does some th. too
>
>>
>>>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed
>>>>> me when i said i make things up
>>>>
>>>> didn't believe you make things up
>>>
>>> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
>>
>> we know that people who see you in 3d have noted physical damage
>
> really?
> how you know that?
I don't know about that part, but know some inside have admitted
physical damage too.
>
>>
>>>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>>>> sorry
>>>>> was fog speaking not me
>>>>> can you see that?
>>>>
>>>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
>>>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>>>
>>> oh
>>> i'm so scared
>>> i don't know these other people
>>> and *i'm* not multiple
>>> why do they have to be here?
>>
>> you live in a body that you share with others
>
> but i don't *wanna*! *stomps foot*
> i'm *one*!!
Not much you can do about it hon. Have tot learn to live with the others.
Emerging Butterfly
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 8:31 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>
> >>> what is co amnesia?
>
> >> don't remember what the other does
>
> > or thinks?
>
> yes
can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
case?
and someone wants to ask, are we polyfragmented because we couldn't be
multiple right and create normal alters like most multiples seem to
have?
Sonata
> On Nov 11, 11:59 am, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> On Nov 9, 8:31 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>>>> what is co amnesia?
>>>> don't remember what the other does
>>> or thinks?
>> yes
>
> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
> case?
> and someone wants to ask, are we polyfragmented because we couldn't be
> multiple right and create normal alters like most multiples seem to
> have?
>
>
Don't think there's anything resembling 'normal' for multiples :P Or for
anybody at all, really. We gonna link you to the latest strip of a
webcomic we really like that's on that theme.
http://www.viruscomix.com/page500.html
Emerging Butterfly
oh
normal tr*uma type "delusions"
magical thinking
that kind of thing
okay
>
> >> dellusions don't equal psychotic
> >> (think all of us here have some level of delusional thinking)
> >> (think that's part of ptsd)
>
> > oh
> > so my kind of delusions are kinda "normal" for ptsd?
>
> something like that
but not quite like that?
>
>
>
> >>>>> do they think i'm bad
> >>>>> for having gone to steven's?
>
> >>>> isn't a question of you being bad for doing that (you're not)
> >>>> is a matter of it being bad *for* you
>
> >>> seemed okay for me
> >>> a little annoying but i'm still safe at least
> >>> that was scary not knowing if i could be safe
>
> >> wish there had been a better way
was with J yesterday and got really unsafe for a sec
had thought she couldn't handle that that it would be wrong to be like
that around her
and it was fine
she took all the unsafe stuff away and bagged it up and took it with
her to her house (she did this in conjunction with an adult inside me
who agreed that would be best)
and she talked with the alter who was frantic and pr*grammed
and it passed
J says we could have stayed with her
for some reason we didn't feel allowed though
calling her was the absolute last thing we wanted to do, i remember
that
>
>
>
>
> >>>>> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this
> >>>>> last big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad.
> >>>>> i promise i didn't.
>
> >>>> you're many
> >>>> some others took over
i wonder what made them decide it was necessary to take over
and who on earth they are!
what i know is that they have strong beliefs that we distort most
everything to make it seem worse than it is or was
and they think we should just work
and they have very limited awareness of most things
>
> >>> i don't get it i thought i had control i was working very hard on
> >>> stuff
> >>> and then everything changed
> >>> i didn't get any warning at all
> >>> why did that happen?
> >>> and i work so hard and then....
> >>> well J says it seems like backlash from all the hard work done and
> >>> processing?
>
> >> could well be some backlash
yeah was coming to uncomfortable conclusions and boom -- was totally
saying and thinking the opposite
>
> >>>>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>
> >>>> yup
> >>>> you've got lots of walls between you
> >>>> lots of co-amnesia
>
> >>> *sighs*
> >>> i'm scared
> >>> i'm scared i can do everything in my power to be healthy and
> >>> independent
> >>> and then all this weird stuff happens and i have no knowledge or
> >>> control of how it works
> >>> and it seems it's been worse or more pronounced lately?
>
> >> possibly
> >> maybe cuz you've been working hard
>
> > ok
>
> >> wish you had a good t who understands who you could rely on
i think we start with one next week or so
she worked with us before on depr*gramming
we don't really like her personality much
but she has really helpful information
she wasn't so good at building rapport with us though
(or we weren't good at building rapport with her)
at the time her sister was d*ing and she would get very emotional
>
> >> one of the ways a t can help is to be that observer who can know what
> >> you're up to and help you learn to share it with each other
> >> kind of a mediator
>
> > just called one today :)
>
> k
>
> > and we have good psych. who stayed in touch with us
> > she does some th. too
>
> does she know any t's you can check out?
no, we asked
>
> >>>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they
> >>>>> believed me when i said i make things up
>
> >>>> didn't believe you make things up
>
> >>> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
>
> >> we know that people who see you in 3d have noted physical damage
heh - but do you think we overinflate and play the victim?
>
> > really?
> > how you know that?
>
> you've reported it
yeah
but it was all consensual
marking is hardly evidence of true h*rt
it's just marking
> and think maybe j has posted occasionally?
i don't believe she ever has
can you point me to a post you thought she might have posted?
i do, however, post what she says a lot. and i'm pretty good at
reporting stuff accurately, i think
well, maybe i'm not
>
>
>
> >>>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
> >>>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
> >>>>> sorry
> >>>>> was fog speaking not me
> >>>>> can you see that?
>
> >>>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
> >>>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>
> >>> oh
> >>> i'm so scared
> >>> i don't know these other people
> >>> and *i'm* not multiple
> >>> why do they have to be here?
>
> >> you live in a body that you share with others
>
> > but i don't *wanna*! *stomps foot*
> > i'm *one*!!
>
> :/
but i had a good childhood
no reason to be many
>
> >>>>> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
>
> >>>> sure
>
> >>> thanks
> >>> i've already said but i'm really scared
>
> >> understandable
>
> > okay
> > are you many too?
>
> yes
oh
Emerging Butterfly
*accepts a hug*
Emerging Butterfly
> Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 2:58 pm, Sonata <shiyiya.as...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > i feel so helpless and scared now that i know for sure that i can lose
> > complete control
> > and that i have amnesia to things
> > it's scary
>
> Doesn't make you bad, though. Just means there are those inside who are
> still stuck in the past and in pr*gramming and out of control, and they
> need to be worked with as well.
oh. that makes some sense
they are still somewhat out
still feeling lots of need to say everything is and was okay
they very mad that we "play the victim" and are very adamant that we
say things are and were good, particularly with steven and with rents
>
>
>
> >>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
> >>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
> >>> when i said i make things up
> >>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
> >>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
> >>> sorry
> >>> was fog speaking not me
> >>> can you see that?
> >> think we haven't seen these posts yet so will hold off commenting (and
> >> probably isn't directed at us anyway?)
>
> > kinda directed at anyone who knows me
>
> wasn't fog hon, was just somebody else inside.
but they were frantic i think.
Emerging Butterfly
who? does anyone know who and what brought them out and how to keep
them inside?
Sonata
we found it really interesting that it brought Michelle out posting!
Wondering what that was a reaction to!
good luck.
>
>>>> one of the ways a t can help is to be that observer who can know what
>>>> you're up to and help you learn to share it with each other
>>>> kind of a mediator
>>> just called one today :)
>> k
>>
>>> and we have good psych. who stayed in touch with us
>>> she does some th. too
>> does she know any t's you can check out?
>
> no, we asked
>
>>>>>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they
>>>>>>> believed me when i said i make things up
>>>>>> didn't believe you make things up
>>>>> did you believe i was paranoid/overinflating to be a victim?
>>>> we know that people who see you in 3d have noted physical damage
>
> heh - but do you think we overinflate and play the victim?
You're not asking me here but h*ll f*cking no
>
>>> really?
>>> how you know that?
>> you've reported it
>
> yeah
> but it was all consensual
> marking is hardly evidence of true h*rt
> it's just marking
What about the danny guy? He drew bl**d, which *wasn't* consented to.
>
>> and think maybe j has posted occasionally?
>
> i don't believe she ever has
> can you point me to a post you thought she might have posted?
> i do, however, post what she says a lot. and i'm pretty good at
> reporting stuff accurately, i think
> well, maybe i'm not
>
>>>>>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>>>>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>>>>>> sorry
>>>>>>> was fog speaking not me
>>>>>>> can you see that?
>>>>>> was someone else who shares your body speaking
>>>>>> think we can see that more clearly than you can
>>>>> oh
>>>>> i'm so scared
>>>>> i don't know these other people
>>>>> and *i'm* not multiple
>>>>> why do they have to be here?
>>>> you live in a body that you share with others
>>> but i don't *wanna*! *stomps foot*
>>> i'm *one*!!
>> :/
>
> but i had a good childhood
> no reason to be many
but I have a nice family
no reason to be many
:P anyone can come up with excuses why their tr*uma isn't big enough.
think denying it makes it a lot harder to heal from.
Emerging Butterfly
just read it
astri
> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
could well be. there could be several michaelas.
means lots and lots of alters, with lots of them having a single
purpose or reason or experience. makes it hard to keep track of.
> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
> case?
can't have any clue how it happened in your case.
typically happens when there is very severe and systematic stuff going
on in childhood with little available escape.
> and someone wants to ask, are we polyfragmented because we couldn't be
> multiple right and create normal alters like most multiples seem to
> have?
no
Sonata
> On Nov 11, 12:56 pm, Sonata <shiyiya.as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> On Nov 9, 2:58 pm, Sonata <shiyiya.as...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>
>>> i feel so helpless and scared now that i know for sure that i can lose
>>> complete control
>>> and that i have amnesia to things
>>> it's scary
>> Doesn't make you bad, though. Just means there are those inside who are
>> still stuck in the past and in pr*gramming and out of control, and they
>> need to be worked with as well.
>
> oh. that makes some sense
> they are still somewhat out
> still feeling lots of need to say everything is and was okay
> they very mad that we "play the victim" and are very adamant that we
> say things are and were good, particularly with steven and with rents
Yes, saw lots of that. Maybe that's why Michelle is posting, to insist
the everything is wonderful and has always been stuff?
>
>>>>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>>>>> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
>>>>> when i said i make things up
>>>>> and um....sorry for using word enabling
>>>>> saw in feedback no one here enables me
>>>>> sorry
>>>>> was fog speaking not me
>>>>> can you see that?
>>>> think we haven't seen these posts yet so will hold off commenting (and
>>>> probably isn't directed at us anyway?)
>>> kinda directed at anyone who knows me
>> wasn't fog hon, was just somebody else inside.
>
> but they were frantic i think.
>
Yes, seemed like it. Might help to figure out what triggered that, might
not be something concrete that you can figure out.
Sonata
Don't know on either, unfortunately. Think would be a lot of help for
you guys if you had a good t who could mediate between parts that can't
contact each other inside!
Emerging Butterfly
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
> > michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
>
> could well be. there could be several michaelas.
>
> means lots and lots of alters, with lots of them having a single
> purpose or reason or experience. makes it hard to keep track of.
>
> > how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
> > case?
>
> can't have any clue how it happened in your case.
>
> typically happens when there is very severe and systematic stuff going
> on in childhood with little available escape.
that sentence there makes me want to cry.
astri
can't make any absolute statements
think there aren't any absolutes
> was with J yesterday and got really unsafe for a sec
> had thought she couldn't handle that that it would be wrong to be like
> that around her
> and it was fine
> she took all the unsafe stuff away and bagged it up and took it with
> her to her house (she did this in conjunction with an adult inside me
> who agreed that would be best)
> and she talked with the alter who was frantic and pr*grammed
> and it passed
> J says we could have stayed with her
> for some reason we didn't feel allowed though
> calling her was the absolute last thing we wanted to do, i remember
> that
sigh
> i wonder what made them decide it was necessary to take over
> and who on earth they are!
would be interesting to find out
> what i know is that they have strong beliefs that we distort most
> everything to make it seem worse than it is or was
> and they think we should just work
> and they have very limited awareness of most things
including most others inside
>>>> could well be some backlash
>
> yeah was coming to uncomfortable conclusions and boom -- was totally
> saying and thinking the opposite
can happen as part of the process
>>>> wish you had a good t who understands who you could rely on
>
> i think we start with one next week or so
> she worked with us before on depr*gramming
> we don't really like her personality much
> but she has really helpful information
> she wasn't so good at building rapport with us though
> (or we weren't good at building rapport with her)
> at the time her sister was d*ing and she would get very emotional
can make a connection now?
>>> and we have good psych. who stayed in touch with us
>>> she does some th. too
>>
>> does she know any t's you can check out?
>
> no, we asked
:P
> heh - but do you think we overinflate and play the victim?
we think if there were 360 possible variations of a particular stance,
that you would have various folks in there expressing each one, in at
least one way, if not more.
>>> really?
>>> how you know that?
>>
>> you've reported it
>
> yeah
> but it was all consensual
> marking is hardly evidence of true h*rt
> it's just marking
and we saw some of the reactions that suggested it wasn't consensual by
all
>> and think maybe j has posted occasionally?
>
> i don't believe she ever has
ok
> can you point me to a post you thought she might have posted?
> i do, however, post what she says a lot. and i'm pretty good at
> reporting stuff accurately, i think
> well, maybe i'm not
>>>> you live in a body that you share with others
>>
>>> but i don't *wanna*! *stomps foot*
>>> i'm *one*!!
>>
>> :/
>
> but i had a good childhood
> no reason to be many
sigh
astri
> On Nov 11, 11:37 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
>>> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
>>
>> could well be. there could be several michaelas.
>>
>> means lots and lots of alters, with lots of them having a single
>> purpose or reason or experience. makes it hard to keep track of.
>>
>>> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
>>> case?
>>
>> can't have any clue how it happened in your case.
>>
>> typically happens when there is very severe and systematic stuff going
>> on in childhood with little available escape.
>
> that sentence there makes me want to cry.
yes. is sad
Emerging Butterfly
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > On Nov 11, 11:37 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> >>> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
> >>> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
>
> >> could well be. there could be several michaelas.
>
> >> means lots and lots of alters, with lots of them having a single
> >> purpose or reason or experience. makes it hard to keep track of.
>
> >>> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
> >>> case?
>
> >> can't have any clue how it happened in your case.
>
> >> typically happens when there is very severe and systematic stuff going
> >> on in childhood with little available escape.
>
> > that sentence there makes me want to cry.
>
> yes. is sad
was gonna ask why they did that, but pretty committed at the moment to
the whole "my life's been great" thing.
Sonata
> On Nov 12, 12:05 am, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> On Nov 11, 11:37 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>>>> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
>>>>> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
>>>> could well be. there could be several michaelas.
>>>> means lots and lots of alters, with lots of them having a single
>>>> purpose or reason or experience. makes it hard to keep track of.
>>>>> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
>>>>> case?
>>>> can't have any clue how it happened in your case.
>>>> typically happens when there is very severe and systematic stuff going
>>>> on in childhood with little available escape.
>>> that sentence there makes me want to cry.
>> yes. is sad
>
> was gonna ask why they did that, but pretty committed at the moment to
> the whole "my life's been great" thing.
>
They were messed up inside so they liked h*rting people. Wasn't anything
you could have done to fix them or stop it happening :/
russiandolly
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
> > can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
> > michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
>
> could well be. there could be several michaelas.
>
we have several Alice's. it all gets very confusing, so we tend to not
even bother going there.
feels weird, cos they post thinking "i'm alice" and then there's alice
going "she's not me!" and it all gets very confusing
confuzzled
> i'm back home
>
> i don't really understand what happened or what's been going on
>
> do people here think i'm paranoid/delusional? do they think i'm bad
> for having gone to steven's?
>
nope nope nope
> do people here have any idea what happened in me to create this last
> big thing? i didn't see it coming and didn't mean to be bad. i promise
> i didn't.
wasn't you being bad. seemed like it was you being scared
>
> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>
> i just wanna know if people still okay with me and if they believed me
> when i said i make things up
is other parts. is what they believe.
> and um....sorry for using word enabling
> saw in feedback no one here enables me
> sorry
> was fog speaking not me
> can you see that?
>
yes.
> can i still be on the group and do people like me?
of course!!!!
confuzzled
> On Nov 11, 11:59 am, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>> On Nov 9, 8:31 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>>>> what is co amnesia?
>>>> don't remember what the other does
>>> or thinks?
>> yes
>
> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
> case?
> and someone wants to ask, are we polyfragmented because we couldn't be
> multiple right and create normal alters like most multiples seem to
> have?
what the heck is a normal alter? :P
confuzzled
k. we understand. do something similar. not that we go to someone else
who is unsafe but we isolate and push the safe people away.
think we learned very strongly that having problems (t says it's having
needs) was bad and the problems not only might be ignored but used
against us. so, as much as a part of us knows we have safe helpful
friends when we get triggered everything screams "hide" and we think if
the safe helpful friends see us like that then we will lose them and
have nothing
have told pdoc more then once that the more we need help the less able
we are to ask for it. maybe starting to unlearn that?
<...>
>
>>>>>>> really don't know what happened fogged and stuff
>>>>>> yup
>>>>>> you've got lots of walls between you
>>>>>> lots of co-amnesia
>>>>> *sighs*
>>>>> i'm scared
>>>>> i'm scared i can do everything in my power to be healthy and
>>>>> independent
>>>>> and then all this weird stuff happens and i have no knowledge or
>>>>> control of how it works
>>>>> and it seems it's been worse or more pronounced lately?
>>>> possibly
>>>> maybe cuz you've been working hard
>>> ok
>>>> wish you had a good t who understands who you could rely on
>
> i think we start with one next week or so
> she worked with us before on depr*gramming
> we don't really like her personality much
> but she has really helpful information
> she wasn't so good at building rapport with us though
> (or we weren't good at building rapport with her)
> at the time her sister was d*ing and she would get very emotional
>
so what made you decide to try her again?
astri
> what the heck is a normal alter? :P
herman
<duck and run>
astri
> think we learned very strongly that having problems (t says it's
> having needs) was bad and the problems not only might be ignored but
> used against us. so, as much as a part of us knows we have safe
> helpful friends when we get triggered everything screams "hide" and
> we think if the safe helpful friends see us like that then we will
> lose them and have nothing
>
> have told pdoc more then once that the more we need help the less
> able we are to ask for it. maybe starting to unlearn that?
would be good
confuzzled
> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>> On Nov 11, 11:37 pm, astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Emerging Butterfly wrote:
>>>> can you explain more about polyfragmented? is that like how even
>>>> michaela isn't always co-aware with what seems to also be michaela?
>>>
>>> could well be. there could be several michaelas.
>>>
>>> means lots and lots of alters, with lots of them having a single
>>> purpose or reason or experience. makes it hard to keep track of.
>>>
>>>> how does polyfragmentation happen or how would it have happened in our
>>>> case?
>>>
>>> can't have any clue how it happened in your case.
>>>
>>> typically happens when there is very severe and systematic stuff going
>>> on in childhood with little available escape.
>>
>> that sentence there makes me want to cry.
>
> yes. is sad
>
Emerging Butterfly
wrote:
hee.
i guess in my eyes it's an alter with a name and somewhat consistent
traits and viewpoints.
we have alters by the same names with vastly different knowledge and
viewpoints -- about all they share are a few mannerisms. it's mad
confusing.
confuzzled
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
>> what the heck is a normal alter? :P
>
> herman
>
> <duck and run>
>
herman makes no sense at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dang it, now he is mooing!
Sonata
*giggles*
astri
heeeeeeeee
russiandolly
wrote:
we do *exactly* the same
for us, it's about 'protecting' other people from our difficulties
(m*m always said we had to behave and be good and not sad because she
couldn't cope with it any other way. spend an awful lot of time making
sure other people are ok and putting their needs first and then, when
*we* have needs we think they too big for other people to cope with)
also, is about not having them see us when we are vulnerable
Herman ~<:o)
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
>> what the heck is a normal alter? :P
>
> herman
>
> <duck and run>
>
<dancing>
Herman ~<:o)
mooOooOoOooOOooooOOooOOooo
c'mon folks, join in
Herman ~<:o)
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>>
>>>> what the heck is a normal alter? :P
>>>
>>> herman
>>>
>>> <duck and run>
>>>
>> :P
>>
>> herman makes no sense at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> dang it, now he is mooing!
>
> heeeeeeeee
>
that's not quite a moo though
astri
> On Nov 13, 4:40 pm, confuzzled <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> have told pdoc more then once that the more we need help the less
>> able we are to ask for it. maybe starting to unlearn that?
>
> we do *exactly* the same
> for us, it's about 'protecting' other people from our difficulties
> (m*m always said we had to behave and be good and not sad because she
> couldn't cope with it any other way. spend an awful lot of time making
> sure other people are ok and putting their needs first and then, when
> *we* have needs we think they too big for other people to cope with)
yes!
she didn't *tell* us that, but we *knew* it and had to protect her
anyway. and also with her if she saw then she'd see too much and not
only would she be devestated but we'd also be way too exposed and
swallowed. we just *knew* that would happen.
> also, is about not having them see us when we are vulnerable
yes!
russiandolly
<nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> astri wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, confuzzled wrote:
> >> astri wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
> >>>> what the heck is a normal alter? :P
>
> >>> herman
>
> >>> <duck and run>
>
> >> :P
>
> >> herman makes no sense at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> >> dang it, now he is mooing!
>
> > heeeeeeeee
>
> thanks for joining in
>
> that's not quite a moo though
*taking a big deep breath*... .... ... ...
MoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo
*gasp* ... *gasp* ...
hee hee
russiandolly
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009, russiandolly wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 4:40 pm, confuzzled <nospamsometimesknownas...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> have told pdoc more then once that the more we need help the less
> >> able we are to ask for it. maybe starting to unlearn that?
>
> > we do *exactly* the same
> > for us, it's about 'protecting' other people from our difficulties
> > (m*m always said we had to behave and be good and not sad because she
> > couldn't cope with it any other way. spend an awful lot of time making
> > sure other people are ok and putting their needs first and then, when
> > *we* have needs we think they too big for other people to cope with)
>
> yes!
>
> she didn't *tell* us that, but we *knew* it and had to protect her
> anyway. and also with her if she saw then she'd see too much and not
> only would she be devestated but we'd also be way too exposed and
> swallowed. we just *knew* that would happen.
>
remember that bind of wanting to tell her, well, to tell anybody, but
knowing that we weren't *allowed* to tell, so people had to notice on
their own and we weren't allowed to do anything that might encourage
people to notice, and so we had to *hide* things, so really, there was
no ws anyone would have ever known,
coupled with the fact that people don't see what they don't want to
anyway
astri
including ourselves
Sonata
There's a song in the musical RENT where the audience of a concert start
mooing at the end thtat you just reminded me of :P "MOO WITH ME!"
MOOOOOOOOOOOO
Herman ~<:o)
that was grand :)
now remember to practice every day and it will help relieve what ails you.
keiki
> mooOooOoOooOOooooOOooOOooo
>
> c'mon folks, join in
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrtaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
%]
keiki
%[
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Herman ~<:o)
woo hoo
but we need more mooing then that
he he he..
You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's
really sick.... And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're a couple
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
mooing a cow moo and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking aroung mooing and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
astri
> You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's
> really sick.... And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
> they may think they're a couple
> And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking
> in mooing a cow moo and walking out. They may think it's an
> organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
> fifty people a day walking aroung mooing and walking out. And
> friends they may thinks it's a movement.
heee
think arlo might appreciate that
Herman ~<:o)
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009, Herman ~<:o) wrote:
>
>> You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's
>> really sick.... And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
>
>> they may think they're a couple
>
>> And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking
>> in mooing a cow moo and walking out. They may think it's an
>> organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
>> fifty people a day walking aroung mooing and walking out. And
>> friends they may thinks it's a movement.
>
> heee
>
> think arlo might appreciate that
>
Shiyiya
a moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovement
astri
:)
Herman ~<:o)
woo hoo that was grand :)