I started weight watchers about a month ago and lost ten pounds.  This
week, however, I've been doing terrible.  I know that I have gained at
least five pounds back.  I can't stop eating everything in sight.  You
name it, cookies, chocolate, chips (all the forbidden foods!).  No matter
how much I tell myself that I shouldn't be eating it, it doesn't help.  
I know I'm going to be embarrassed when I get on the scale at my next
meeting.  

Anyone have any encouraging or motivating words of wisdom to help me
break this cycle!!!

Thanks in advance.

Wisdom: you may have a metabolic problem which physiologically causes
your cravings.  Go cold turkey.  Don't eat sugar, potatoes, corn, wheat,
or rice, in any form.  Your cravings will probably go away immediately.

For more information, read:

"Food Addiction" by Sheppard
"Protein Power" by Eades and Eades
"Healthy For Life" by Heller and Heller
"New Diet Revolution" by Atkins
"Sugar Blues" by Duffy

--
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~khendric    k...@seas.smu.edu, k...@pollux.usc.edu
PGP Key Fingerprint    02 6A 4F DE DD 77 A1 8B   21 D9 81 EB ED C8 3A DC
We are upping our standards ... so up yours.     Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/5

Well, this may sound kind of basic, but I have found that I do much better
whenever I *don't* tell myself that I am out of control.  I strongly believe in
the power of positive thinking and in suggestion, and I have found that if I
start thinking that I have lost control, can't stop eating, etc. I will end up
*being* that way.  OTOH, if I consistently think the opposite way....that I am
staying on my diet, I am doing what is right for me, etc., I will be okay.

This doesn't mean that I can't enjoy an occasional treat; just that I don't
beat myself up and call myself a failure for it.  Instead, why not just
exercise for an extra 20 minutes or skip a snack later?  I think you can find
ways to compensate for these things.

But, IMO, the worst possible thing you can do is to start thinking that you
have blown it and are out of control!  Of course you aren't....don't let your
mind tell yourself that you are.

--Dena L. Bruedigam
  bruediga...@osu.edu

It sounds to me like you are unhappy.  From my experiences, when I'm
unhappy it makes me want to eat.  The food numbs me and makes me happy
at least temperarily.  Maybe this is the same for you too?  Next time
you feel the overwhelming urge to overeat, try to do something else
which sounds pleasing.  Maybe go to a movie, a computer game, or a
long bath might do the trick, and not have all the guilt attached.  

Be happy each time you avoid overeating.  Try not to act as if it was
something expected, and you are weak if you couldn't accomplish it
that time.  If you are proud of yourself, it will have a domino affect
on other times, when you are tempted to overeat.  

I've heard a lot of people complain that they gained all (or some) of
their weight back after losing it, because something bad happened.  It
seems if something good happened, it might have the opposite affect.
So if you are usually down on yourself, you could try being nice to
you.  Take care and good luck!

jane

In <4l8e12$...@news.fsu.edu> HH <hhod...@res.fsu.edu> writes:

Boy, do I know the feeling.  I am going to start WW on Monday and I am
eating everything in sight until then.  I hope I can get under control
once I start attending the meetings.  It seems like once I start I just
can't seem to stop.  I know this isn't any help but it feels good to
know I'm not the only one out there.  

Ann

Note to asd readership:

This is a post from a fellow WWer.  If you have no interest in WW then
you may not wish to spend your time reading this long post.  Thank you.

Congratulations on your recent losses!  

First of all realize that on WW there are no forbidden foods.  You can
fit what you want to have in the program. Some people though choose to
make certain things "red light foods" meaning if they start eating them
they can't stop so they avoid them.  I'm a major chocoholic and I had
trouble going on WW after a multi-candy bar a day habit.  I weaned myself
off instead of going cold turkey.  I would make sure each day had some
chocolate in it - usually a WW dessert.  That way I wouldn't feel
deprived and end up going off program.  Eventually I was able to skip
days and then have several chocolate-free days in a row!  Now with the
Freedom Plan Weekend option I can have a decadent dessert twice a week (I
don't like to have my two indulgent days in a row, I need a break
mid-week too!).  In the past I might have had a chocolate binge and gone
off the program entirely until the next meeting.  Now I just count it as
one of my "days off" and immediately make the next meal a program one.  I
end up tracking (very important-don't underestimate that) and staying on
program for the whole week this way!

In addition to working snack foods into your program you can also eat at
the higher end of your ranges.  Having more food may slow your weight
loss a little over the short term but if it keeps you on program you'll
show more success in the long run!  Look at when and where you are when
you get these cravings.  Are they associated with a past behavior you are
having trouble kicking?  An example might be if you always used to snack
while watching TV and now you can't watch TV without wanting something to
eat.  Find solutions that will get out of that situation.  If you're
bored at home find something you can do away from home to keep you busy
and interested.  If it is morning break at work plan a snack to get you
though that time.

Talk to your WW meeting leader for help on this.  If you don't want to
bring it up during meeting then speak to him/her privately afterwards.  I
always tell people to shop around if they must to find a leader they like
since that can be so important.

Finally, don't beat yourself up.  When I saw the words "terrible",
"forbidden", and "embarrassed" in your post I felt a pinge of
recognition.  I too have been hard on myself for not being the perfect
WWer but I eventually realized what a major change I was attempting.  You
can't go from one style of eating to another in one day or even one
month.  It takes time to adjust.  That's why it's considered a lifestyle
change.  I've lost a fair amount of weight in the year plus that I've
been a member but more importantly I've gained control over my eating and
a newfound sense of health I hadn't know before.

Good luck to you and to all asders in your efforts!

-Burglar

In article <4l8e12$...@news.fsu.edu>, hhod...@res.fsu.edu says...

Shelf the weight watchers plan and go on the cabbage soup diet. Maintain
it strictly, you'll lose. Keep on going to WW for the motivational
meetings and don't tell them your not following their
instructions.--...@shore.net (Mary Ann)

Maybe you have been too hard on yourself from the beginning, and that is
causing you to over do it.

First thing you need to know is that cookies and chocolate chips are not
FORBIDDEN on the plan ... they tell you right in the very beginning how
to count them into your optional calories .... you need to let yourself
have a little taste of the things that you are craving, because if you
don't, you are going to have them anyway .. and then you are less likely
to stop after one.

Things to do that might help you: toss all that junk down the garbage
disposal so that you will quit benging on it (the garbage disposal works
better than the trash can because it is REALLY gone ... and yes I have
known people to dig the cookies they threw out back out of the trash!)
... maybe you shouldn't wait until your next WW group meeting, in most
areas (especially larger ones) they have MANY meetings a week ... and
once you have paid and weighed in that week, you can go to any other WW
meeting in the world for free.  The encouragement can be really helpful
in times like this.  Another thing you might think about doing is
EXERCISE!! to help burn off some of what you've already eaten.  And most
importantly, please remember that nobody is perfect, that you are allowed
a bad week every now and then, and that doesn't mean that you won't do
better the next week and all the weeks after that.

Stay strong!!

  /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    Carrie     /\    /\    /\    /\    /\
/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \ @PEAK.ORG /    \/    \/    \/    \/    \

On 19 Apr 1996, HH wrote:

: I started weight watchers about a month ago and lost ten pounds.  This
: week, however, I've been doing terrible.  I know that I have gained at
: least five pounds back.  I can't stop eating everything in sight.  You
: name it, cookies, chocolate, chips (all the forbidden foods!).  No matter
: how much I tell myself that I shouldn't be eating it, it doesn't help.  
: I know I'm going to be embarrassed when I get on the scale at my next
: meeting.  
:
The drug combo fen/phen could help you with cravings. Check it out.

You can look here and in alt.support.diet.rx

J

HH-

Your reaction is normal and you're not failing!  Your weight loss program
is what is failing you!  Anytime a person starts depriving themselves of
anything they enjoy (and it doesn't harm them), you're bound to crave it
even worse.

What you need to ask yourself are these things:

1.  Is my eating program giving me enough satisfaction that I'm not
craving foods?
2.  Am I consuming enough calories to prevent cravings & binging?
3.  Is my program dedicated to building up my metabolism?

If its not, then you need to revisit what other people are you to do--pay
them money to tell you not to eat.  Who's doing this-- the weight
watcher's group!

What you really need to do are three things:

1.  Eat balanced meals of clean, lean protein, grainy carbs, & vegetables
(or apples or berries) from four - six times a day.  Your caloric intake
should be on the rise, not the decline to stave off these cravings.  
Throw in as much water as you can handle throughout the day and step one
is complete.

Grainy/starchy carbs--Start with a cup per serving and doctor them up to
taste good with seasonings, herbs, even picante sauces!
Vegetables--Go crazy on these
Proteins--Try about 10-14g per meal.  For example, that would be four egg
whites for breakfast.  Stick with lean meats, poultry, or fish grilled,
boiled, or broiled, never fried.  Flavor the food for variety.  Non-fat
milk products are ok, but don't rely on them as a good source for protein
because of all of the sugars in the milk.

Breakfast: Oatmeal or baked potato with egg whites or non-fat cottage
cheese
Meals 2 - 6:  Brown rice, baked potato, grains, etc., protein, and fruit
or vegetables.

You'll find within three weeks if you stick by this program you'll have
lost from 12 - 16 pounds and can't eat enough because you'll begin to
feel HUNGRY, not cravings, approximately three hours after each meal.  
When that begins to happen increase, proportionately, your carbs,
proteins, and vegetables.  I've known women consuming 5,000 calories a
day on this type of plan and they lost bodyfat like crazy.  
Bodybuilders--on or off steroids--eat over 6,000 calories a day on this
type of program and maintain 8% or less bodyfat.

2.  Lift weights or do resistance exercises such as push-ups, sit-ups,
etc., and build your lean body mass up so your metabolism is revved up,
not slowed down through caloric deprivation!  Remember--every 10lbs of
lean tissue (aka muscle) you put on, you burn 100 extra calories or more
per day!  This is critical.  The more lean tissue you lose through
starving yourself or inactivity, the more your metabolism slows down.
Again, this is another reason why bodybuilders can consume so much food
and stay lean--they're walking metabolic machines!

3.  Do gentle, low intensity aerobics. Walk, bike, blade--whatever, but
do it easily enough to enjoy.  High intensity aerobics eventually lead to
injury, muscular atrophy, and high catabolic states--something someone
who wants to look good should avoid!

Remember, its not you, its the program!  Feed your body enough good fuel
& you'll see more success faster than Weight Watchers could provide for a
lifetime.  

And WW's is in the business to SELL YOU THEIR PROGRAMS, FOODS, etc.  I'm
not pushing pills, herbs, etc.  Just good common sense that works for
everyone with or without a weight problem.

Good luck!

Parker

In article <4ldr9h$...@tpd.dsccc.com>,
Parker Reed  <pr...@ccmail.dsccc.com> wrote:

This is true, but not for the reasons Parker thinks.  Many people have a
metabolic problem of hyperinsulinemia and reactive hypoglycemia that
causes them to be fat.  Any weight loss program that does not totally
eliminate sugar, potatoes (and yams and sweet potatoes), corn (and peas
and beets), wheat (and rye and barley ...), and rice---will fail these
people.  These people should NOT eat a low-fat diet; that is what will
fatten them up, just like feeding corn and grain to cows and pigs will
fatten them up.

False!  For people with reactive hypoglycemia, they will crave the high
glycemic index carbohydrates (and therefore eat too much) only if they
eat them.  If those foods are totally avoided, the cravings will quickly
subside and never return until those foods are eaten again.  The
situation is parallel to that of an alcoholic who can't have "just one
drink".  People with reactive hypoglycemia cannot have "just a
reasonable amount of [sugar|potatoes|corn|wheat|rice]".

FALSE!  If you keep on eating a low-fat diet, which must necessarily be
high in starchy vegetables and grains, and if you are a reactive
hypoglycemic, then you will give yourself cravings so powerful that you
cannot fight against them with any amount of willpower.  You will not be
in control of food; instead your food will be in control of you.

Here is how it works:  You eat [sugar|potatoes|corn|wheat|rice].  Your
blood sugar rapidly rises.  Because you have the metabolic problem of
hyperinsulinemia, your pancreas puts out too much insulin.  After 1-4
hours, the insulin has accomplished its task---far too well.  Your blood
sugar is abnormally low.  Your hyperinsulinemia causes your reactive
hypoglycemia.  This low blood sugar must be rectified, and therefore
your body craves the kinds of foods that will make your blood sugar rise
rapidly.  You eat more [sugar|potatoes|corn|wheat|rice] because you are
craving them and those cravings are every bit as strong as those
experienced by an heroin or cocaine addict going through withdrawal.
The cycle repeats, and you get fat.

That is a recipe for disaster, as described above.  Eat the protein, and
EAT FAT!  Stay far far away from those grains and starchy vegetables!

Don't eat [sugar|potatoes|corn|wheat|rice] in any form.  You will thereby
stabilize your blood sugar and eliminate those cravings.  As a result of
this, you will be able to eat reasonable amounts of healthy fresh meats
and vegetables and attain a normal weight.

Parker is bound to tell you that by avoiding [sugar|potatoes|corn|
wheat|rice] you will put yourself into ketosis and kill yourself.  Not
true.  Research it yourself---then decide whether you want to keep on
trying the same old tried and UNtrue methods that have close to a 100%
long-term failure rate, or whether you want to ignore those who continue
to mechanically parrot the failed but politically correct dietary
advice.  Try a low-carb diet and see if it works for you.  If it works,
ignore the ignorant (or maliciously evil) people like Parker who advise
you against it.

Parker's advice is not all bad.  This is true and good.  Become a weight
lifter, and build up your lean body mass (even if you are a woman).
This will be *far* more beneficial in the long run than aerobic
exercise.  However, your diet is far more important than any exercise
you do.  Get off of the [sugar|potatoes|corn|wheat|rice].

--
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~khendric    k...@seas.smu.edu, k...@pollux.usc.edu
PGP Key Fingerprint    02 6A 4F DE DD 77 A1 8B   21 D9 81 EB ED C8 3A DC
We are upping our standards ... so up yours.     Ken Hendrickson N8DGN/5

I think long term the Weight Watchers plan will be much more beneficial
then the Cabbage Soup diet.  Weight Watchers teaches you how to eat
properly and teaches you portion control.  The Cabbage soup diet WILL
cause you to lose faster - but you will not have learned anything.  
Chances are you will put the weight right back on as soon as you get that
first large pizza and you have no idea how MUCH you should eat - so you
just eat the whole thing...

In <4ldr9h$...@tpd.dsccc.com>, Parker Reed <pr...@ccmail.dsccc.com> writes:

Gee, Parker, are you perhaps involved with SELLING WW products?  Isn't
WW so successful financially because just about everyone who tries it
winds up years later heavier than before?  (Like me?  And many others
in this group?)  Then they get to do it all over again.  Built-in return
business.  Pretty neat, eh?

Oh.  I see.  It's because I don't have "COMMON SENSE".  Or maybe I don't
eat protein that's "GOOD" and "CLEAN".  I guess I have to buy that in
WW products at the grocery store.  Tell me, did I fail WW, or did WW
fail me??

So, please clarify for us, just what is the difference between your
SELLING of the WW program vs. "pushing pills?"  I guess the difference
is that WW makes lots more money than the companies who make and
sell phentermine and fenfluramine...

-- Joe B.

P.S. Yes, I use p/f, and so far it is working for me.  I know from personal
experience that your "common sense" plan does not work for me in long-
term weight management.  One size does NOT fit all.  Your milage may
vary.  Etc.

In <4li7mg$...@news.wco.com>, j...@wco.com     (Joe Barnhart) writes:

I apologize in advance for this tone describing WW.  I know that WW helps
a lot of people, and I'll take my own advice regarding tolerance of folks who
use other methods for weight loss.  Like all weight loss protocols, your
final weight is in your own hands.

(I still don't like Parker's attitude toward the methods I use.  But that's
a separate matter.)

Contritely,

-- Joe B.

I don't have the whole post here, but your note questions Parker's motivation
for recommending common sense and lean protein.

What Parker means by lean protein isn't frozen dinners.  It's food!  You
know -- like chicken breast, egg whites, tuna, fish, etc.  He recommends
eating a protein with a carb (like oatmeal, rice, or beans) and a vegetable
as often as you get hungry.  (It works like magic!)

Parker doesn't sell anything and he's not even on Weight Watchers.  
He's a serious student of nutrition and body building, and he's kind enough to
share what he's learned with you.  

(I told him not to bother because the flame ratio in this news group is
unbelievable,  But he's nicer than I am.)

j...@wco.com     (Joe Barnhart) writes:

As I said in my own followup post, I overreacted in flaming WW.

However, my flame of Parker I stand by completely.  Don't you see how
arrogant it is for someone to come along one day, and tell everyone in
the group, "hey, if you're not doing it THIS WAY, then you must be
pretty lacking in COMMON SENSE."

Just what IS "common sense" anyway?  It's a tool used by a class of
people to impose their own view of the world, and to cast aspersions
on any view that does not align with theirs.

That describes Parker's post of heroic hubris.

-- Joe B.

P.S.  If you REALLY believe that "everyone" should eat high carb, low fat
then read some of Lee Roger's posts.  He is the most eloquent poster I've
seen when describing some of the very REAL metabolic problems of very
overweight people.  This is NOT a "one size (or diet) fits all" world.

That's why Parker was wrong to come here and proclaim his ideas as
"common sense," thus all other protocols as flawed.