Having big problems with my diet

[doug lerner]

I am having big diet problems. I don't know what to do. My weight
continues to creep up and I can't really say anymore that I'm sticking
to a diet every single day.

My thoughts swing back and forth like this:

(1) Restricting carbs helps control my appetite. And if I also avoid
very fatty things, I will definitely lose weight. So I should stay on
highly restricted carbs.

(2) Restricting carbs is getting really, really, really, really
tedious and boring. I'm down to like 5 foods that I can eat. Since all
that matters is calories anyway, I'm going back to the tried-and-true
counting calories which helped me lose weight all along.

(3) I am so hungry. I need more to eat. It must be the carbs
triggering my feeling hungry. Snack. Snack. Snack. Snack.

Back to (1).

Meanwhile my weight is creeping ever upwards again.

doug@day 864, but back over 90 kg again!

[Kate XXXXXX]

Shake up WHAT you eat and how you eat it.

I stuck after putting on half a stone or thereabouts, so I switched form
points counting to core and altered what I eat. Yesterday was a good day:

Breakfast:
2 Wheetabix, banana, skimmed milk

Lunch:
butternut squash soup, Muller Light yoghurt, apple

4:00pm snack: apple and an orange

Dinner:
Creamy chicken & leek casserole (my recipe, all core ingredients), brown
rice, Brussels sprouts, with a pot of pineapple chunks to follow

Before bed: banana

All together, 10 portions of fruit & veg, no hunger. Carbs down to two
portions in the day, no hunger, and the monthly carb cravings under control!

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

[doug lerner]

On Oct 19, 4:33 pm, Kate XXXXXX <k...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk>
wrote:

> Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttonshttp://www.katedicey.co.uk

> Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Of course it's different with different people, but for me, bananas
(probably because they are so high-glycemic) seem to be real "trigger
foods".

doug

[Stormmee]

do you think you could take a week off and eat whatever then star fresh?
Lee
doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192774578....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Kate XXXXXX]

So swap them for pineapples or peaches or mangoes! Whatever floats yer
boat... :)

[NANCI Lea]

This is, of course, a group supporting weight watchers adherents. WWers
does not recommend cutting out carbohydrates, which can give you a nice
sense of fullness if you stick to the complex carbohydrates. Low-carb
"dieting" is a gimmick. Like all gimmick-diets, it will be fine for a
short time, then start letting you down bigtime. What you need to do is
create for yourself a whole new lifestyle wherein you leave behind the
bad habits that made you overweight in the first place and acquire
positive habits. This can take time...it's not an overnight solution,
but it's one you can live with.

[Kate XXXXXX]

NANCI Lea wrote:
> This is, of course, a group supporting weight watchers adherents. WWers
> does not recommend cutting out carbohydrates, which can give you a nice
> sense of fullness if you stick to the complex carbohydrates. Low-carb
> "dieting" is a gimmick. Like all gimmick-diets, it will be fine for a
> short time, then start letting you down bigtime. What you need to do is
> create for yourself a whole new lifestyle wherein you leave behind the
> bad habits that made you overweight in the first place and acquire
> positive habits. This can take time...it's not an overnight solution,
> but it's one you can live with.

I've been on WW for 4 years. I've been at or close to goal for a year.
All this I know: I'm just doing and suggesting a short-term shake-up.
With either breakfast cereal (Wheetabix, bran flakes, shredded Wheat,
porridge) and another generous portion of complex carbs in a day (brown
rice, potatoes, pasta, whatever is on the core list), I'm not exactly
cutting them out, nor down to seriously low levels.

Personally, I find a good sized banana fills me up for ages, but if they
give our Doug (another long term member of the group, and a very
successful loser over all) the carb cravings, I'm just suggesting he
swap them for another filling fruit.

[Stormmee]

I love bananas but if they are in the house, I eat nothing but them because
one fills me up for 3/4 hours, Lee
Kate XXXXXX <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:13hhoth...@corp.supernews.com...

[Laura]

Can you share with us a typical day's menu? Maybe that will give us some
ideas for you.

--
~laura~

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192774578....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Willow Herself]

I saw this coming from miles...

As long as you diet, as opposed to learning a healthy maintainable
lifestyle, that's what you're going to get.

Give Core a try... and stop obsessing..

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192774578....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

On Oct 20, 6:04 am, "Willow Herself"

<willowki...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote:
> I saw this coming from miles...
>
> As long as you diet, as opposed to learning a healthy maintainable
> lifestyle, that's what you're going to get.
>
> Give Core a try... and stop obsessing..
>
> Will~

I've tried Core in the past (and posted some notes about it) but
didn't really have any success with it. But time has passed, so I
might try it again.

doug

[Willow Herself]

Doug, re-reading my post, I realize how harsh it sounded. I didn't mean it
to, sincerely. I apologize for that.

I do think that you're very much so making this a diet, not a lifestyle
change, and that has proven, times and again, not to work long term.

What you're going through even has a name: "Diet Fatigue".

You need to find a way of living, that might bring slower results, but that
you can do for the rest of your life.

I've lost 3 lbs in the last 2 months, not that much really... it's slow, but
I'm not struggling. I living my life, and I happen to lose weight doing it.
I never go hungry, Inever kill myself working out... I just live, move, eat
to satisfaction... No immediate results, not sparkly weight loss, but
healthy eating and slowly losing what I need to lose.

Forget about strict restrictions, and numbers. What is healthy eating?
What's a "portion"? what's healthy foods?

Get healthy, the weight loss will follow...

WIll~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1192839230.0...@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

As much as is humanly possible I've tried over the last two-and-a-half
years to make this a lifestyle change rather than a diet. But I know,
from long experience, if I dont' have some rules to go by, and if I
don't journal everything, and if I don't stick to the limits - I slip
and gain weight.

doug

[Willow Herself]

As we ask members over and over, every week...

How is it working for you?

Will~ just trying to help..

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1192856614.2...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

[Laura]

Doug,

I am the same way. I have incoporated the concepts of both the flex and core
plans into our way of eating as much as possible. Breakfasts and lunches are
always core. Dinner is the problem around here as DH does the cooking. I do
the meal planning but he does the cooking. We have switched to brown rice,
eat lots of steamed veggies, lean meat, chicken and pork most dinners. Its
the portions that also do damage. He serves the plate so I frequently double
check his guestimate of a portion size. That part of the program he has
mastered. I never mastered the "eat until satisfied" so I still follow the
flex plan portion control guidelines. Core has enough rules built in by way
of the foods you can and can not eat with out counting points. If that is
not enough structure eat like core but count points. You are still eating
healthy which may make a difference.

I remember when I first started WW (before core was introduced). I had
points left over each night and I typically filled myself up on empty
calories. Now that I don't eat processed foods or sugar on a regular basis
those things taste too sweet to me. My one weakness is microwave popcorn. I
usually have one of the mini bags for dessert while watching TV at night. I
have core to thank for that.

If you don't want to try core, at least go back over your menus and exercise
routine for the past month. What has changed that might be causeing you to
gain weight? Are you weighing and measuring your foods? Did you add a new
store bought salad or other food that might have a lot more calories than
you are accounting for. I suggest you post a typical menu for us to see if
we have any ideas. I have suggested this in the past when you have posted
about your struggles but I have not seen any posted yet.
--
~laura~

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1192856142....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

What has changed over the last month is quite simple - I've broken the
diet any number of times. It's plain and simple "diet fatigue" causing
me to lose will-power. On some days this last month I've had as many
as 6 ice creams in one day!

There is no mystery about it at this point. I've just been having
enormous cravings for the first time in two years and so I've been
breaking my diet regularly.

The only good thing is that I seem to realize it. And I am weighing
myself every day. And on a day I gain weight I've been good the next
day. So things are not completely in an out-of-control spiral yet.

The last three days have been good. I reduced my carbs significantly
because I know they seem to cause hunger spikes. I told myself "not
even a McDonald's 150 calorie soft icecream until I'm back in the
80s".

Anyway, over the last three days I've gone from 92.2 kg to 91.8 kg to
90.8 kg this morning. If I can keep this up for a few more days I'm
back in the 80s at least.

Note that I am *not* doing "low carb" per se. I'm still watching my
calories. It's just that I am avoiding all the trigger foods which
seems to make me want to eat non-stop. Unfortunately those seem to all
be carbs. So I am limiting my carbs to a very few low-carb vegies,
like cucumbers, tomatoes, mushrooms, etc.

The drawback is that this way of eating is it is really boring. The
positive side is that I am getting my hunger under control and my
weight is coming down.

doug

[Laura]

SInce this will be a struggle the rest of your life, identifying your
trigger foods now is a great idea. I have found that the chemicals found in
most processed foods, white flour and white sugar are my trigger foods. One
of the side benefits of the core plan is that the list of allowable foods
excludes these preprocessed foods. If I go too far astray from that core
list like while on vacation and traveling my cravings for sweets returns. It
only takes a couple of days of careful eating for the cravings to disappear.
I also have learned that I have to avoid having certain foods like chips in
the house or I will attack them. For me out of sight-out of mind seems to
help. For you, avoiding McDonalds sounds like it would help you.

As for being bored, try new recipes, new spices even new veggies and grains
to mix things up. As long as the calorie content is similar to what you
have been eating there should not be an impact.

--
~laura~
"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1192931970.5...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Stormmee]

facing the issue is the key and you are being honest with yourself, if carbs
are a trigger food then they just are... its pizza for DH and for me chicken
that is called wings.. also Mexican food, even fat free refried beans makes
me want to eat too much, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1192931970.5...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

Thanks for the new notes, Laura and Stormmee.

What I think I will try to do, since I desperately need to add some
more carbs in to ward off death-from-boredom, is add more Core-allowed
carbs in until it seems I am hitting a trigger food.

doug

[Willow Herself]

Grains, like barley, bulgur, couscous... and legumes, like chickpeas, beans,
lentils are my saviors!

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193102523....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Stormmee]

I had issues with this recently and talked to the leader about it... you are
allowed that group of carbs, potatoes, brown rice and whole wheat pasta but
only once a day... I tried to eat this and just have the recommended
serving, always left me lacking so I started having them every other day and
a serving and a half, leader said if I need a serving and a half go ahead
and have it every day, if they don't trigger over eating eventually I won't
want that much or will eat less of other things because I am not hungry
later... so far this week I have found that to be correct, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193102523....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

On Oct 23, 1:16 pm, "Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> I had issues with this recently and talked to the leader about it... you are
> allowed that group of carbs, potatoes, brown rice and whole wheat pasta but
> only once a day... I tried to eat this and just have the recommended
> serving, always left me lacking so I started having them every other day and
> a serving and a half, leader said if I need a serving and a half go ahead
> and have it every day, if they don't trigger over eating eventually I won't
> want that much or will eat less of other things because I am not hungry
> later... so far this week I have found that to be correct, Leed

Since Core is "eat until satisfied without over-stuffing", what is a
recommended serving of whole wheat pasta?

Also, I have a question about soba. In one place on the WW site I read
that soba grain was Core. But in another place it seemed to say that
soba noodles are treated like pasta. But soba noodles are just soba
grain.

I was wondering about using soba grain to make soba pancakes!

doug

[Stormmee]

what I do for my serving sizes is look at what flex says a serving is, for
most pastas it is 2 ounces uncooked or 1 cup cooked, I find I don't need 2
servings but 1 isn't quite enough... about the soba, am not sure, hopefully
willow will check in on this one, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193118953.8...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

[Willow Herself]

You are limited to potatoes (all kinds), whole wheat pasta, and brown rice,
one meal a day (one of the 3, not one meal each). You are NOT limited on
portion size. You eat once of the 3, one meal a day, as much as you need to
feel satisfied. There is NO PORTION SIZE on Core foods except the healthy
oils.

So if what you need to be satisfied is 1 1/2 of a flex portion, then so be
it.

Bulgur, barley, quinoa, all of those fabulous grains are NOT limited (other
than by your own satisfaction). Only those 3 items are limited. There are
other limitation rules (ground meat, WW smoothies, but those are SEPARATE
rules).

Any leader who tells you anything else is wrong and should re-read their
material.

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:5o5bcqF...@mid.individual.net...

[Willow Herself]

Core doesn't work that way though Lee. There is no "serving size" on Core
foods, and by limiting yourself, you aren't eating to "satisfaction". That
goes against the program.

Eat one flex portion, if that's "safe to you" but if you're still hungry,
you need to eat more.

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message

news:5o6eb5F...@mid.individual.net...

[Stormmee]

that is what she did say... and I didn't explain it good enough, so glad you
are here... and what about the soba? Lee
Willow Herself <willo...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in message
news:jZsTi.152$%Z2...@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

[Stormmee]

that is what my leader said... I think being afraid of foods like this is
part of my issue and its why I am doing core right now to deal with this,
thanks, Lee

Willow Herself <willo...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in message

news:T_sTi.153$%Z2...@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...

[doug lerner]

Thanks, Stormee and Willow Herself.

About the pasta portion - 3 oz sounds about right for me too. That is
close to a small one-person 100 gm package of pasta.

About the soba (buckwheat), the WW site itself contains contradictory
info about that. Soba noodles are just buckwheat noodles. So if they
are not limited, it sounds like those could form a nice base of a
healthy diet here in Japan, where soba is very popular.

doug@currently 3 good days to 1 bad day

[Stormmee]

I am going to have to try them, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193179723.7...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

What about dried fish - in particular the kind of dried squid you get
in strips here in Japan? I couldn't figure that out online either. And
if you ask questions all the "support" people ever do is 3 days later
email you a canned response that never quite answers what you were
asking. :)

doug

[Glenn B.]

Hey Doug,

Good to see you posting again....the responses are amazing!

What I might suggest is doing a hybrid of CORE and FLEX. I can't do CORE on
the premise of eating until I'm satisfied because I haven't learned to gauge
that right. HOWEVER, I do eat alot of CORE meals and just point them out as
Flex.

So, maybe you can take the CORE food list and create menus that get you to
your daily FLEX Target so it limits the carbs but doesn't take them to a
dangerously low level.

Ensuring you drink your fluids and exercise, you are on the right path.

Glenn
277/241.6/199

[Willow Herself]

I don't think dried fish would be core... but it IS healthy.. watch the salt
content though..

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193189801....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

[Willow Herself]

The only pasta that is core is whole wheat. No blends... I don't know what
"Soba" is..

:o/ sorry..

will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193179723.7...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Stormmee]

ok Doug explain it to her, Lee

Willow Herself <willo...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in message

news:eNJTi.13603$lD6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

[Kate XXXXXX]

Willow Herself wrote:
> The only pasta that is core is whole wheat. No blends... I don't know what
> "Soba" is..
>
> :o/ sorry..
>
> will~
>

Here the Core list says: 'Pasta - any type' Doesn't need to be whole
wheat, which is great as I can use gluten free rice or corn based pasta
when my gluten free friend is here.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

[Willow Herself]

Each country has a different list. Depending on culture, availability and
then some.

My advice is to pick a country, and stick with it. Not to mix and match..

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Kate XXXXXX" <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:13hvejk...@corp.supernews.com...

[Stormmee]

i am but its just meanmeanmean!!! Lee

Willow Herself <willo...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in message

news:vYPTi.60604$Um6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...

[Stormmee]

that is just plain unfair!!! waaaah, Lee

Kate XXXXXX <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:13hvejk...@corp.supernews.com...

[Willow Herself]

LOL I know!

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message

news:5oa10nF...@mid.individual.net...

[doug lerner]

On Oct 25, 6:42 am, Kate XXXXXX <k...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk>
wrote:

> Willow Herself wrote:
> > The only pasta that is core is whole wheat. No blends... I don't know what
> > "Soba" is..
>
> > :o/ sorry..
>
> > will~
>
> Here the Core list says: 'Pasta - any type' Doesn't need to be whole
> wheat, which is great as I can use gluten free rice or corn based pasta
> when my gluten free friend is here.

A few points regarding this:

(1) Soba is not "pasta".

(2) The WW Core list includes buckwheat.

(3) Soba is 100% buckwheat + water.

So...?

doug

[doug lerner]

Thanks, Glenn. As a matter of fact I'm trying some sort of a hybrid
Core/Flex right now. A bit different pattern from what you wrote, but
I'll report on the details later if it seems to be working.

So far I've dropped about 0.5 lb each day for the last 3 days trying
this. Of course that's too soon to know if I hit on something good,
but at least I'm controlling myself.

I almost went for a couple (!) of these delicious strawberry/vanilla/
chocolate-chip icecreams they have at the corner convenience store.
But I fought back and got a couple of 80-calorie, non-sugar icecreams
instead.

doug

[Willow Herself]

if that's all there is to it it should be core I think.

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193368479....@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Stormmee]

any victory helps, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193368634....@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Laura]

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193368479....@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> On Oct 25, 6:42 am, Kate XXXXXX <k...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> Willow Herself wrote:
>> > The only pasta that is core is whole wheat. No blends... I don't know
>> > what
>> > "Soba" is..
>>
>> > :o/ sorry..
>>
>> > will~
>>
>> Here the Core list says: 'Pasta - any type' Doesn't need to be whole
>> wheat, which is great as I can use gluten free rice or corn based pasta
>> when my gluten free friend is here.
>
> A few points regarding this:
>
> (1) Soba is not "pasta".

In my WW materials (getting started and Complete Food companion) the only
references to Soba are noodles and they are marked as NOT core. They are
noodles made from Buckwheat flour. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soba. Isn't
that pasta? (in the USA noodles = pasta)

> (2) The WW Core list includes buckwheat.
>
> (3) Soba is 100% buckwheat + water.
>
> So...?

Here is the confusing part of core. While Buckwheat is core, noodles made
from buckwheat flour are not core. The only noodles that are core are those
made from whole wheat. Also, making "flour" out of a core food such as
buckwheat does not make the end product core. Another good example of that
would be to convert buckwheat into flour to make pancakes. Many would
consider those not core. My impression on this is that WW considers
buckwheat and the other grains core only in raw, unprocessed form. I'm sure
others will disagree bu this is how my leaders have explained things to the
meetings I have been to.

[Willow Herself]

No kind of flour is core.

It's a matter of "energy density"

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Laura" <inv...@sample.invalid> wrote in message
news:GrpUi.24912$kj1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Laura]

That was the term I was missing. Having a brain fart today. thanks.

--
~laura~

"Willow Herself" <willo...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in

message news:UfvUi.1908$Vx3....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

[doug lerner]

On Oct 27, 2:27 am, "Laura" <inva...@sample.invalid> wrote:
> "doug lerner" <dougler...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:1193368479....@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 6:42 am, Kate XXXXXX <k...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> Willow Herself wrote:
> >> > The only pasta that is core is whole wheat. No blends... I don't know
> >> > what
> >> > "Soba" is..
>
> >> > :o/ sorry..
>
> >> > will~
>
> >> Here the Core list says: 'Pasta - any type' Doesn't need to be whole
> >> wheat, which is great as I can use gluten free rice or corn based pasta
> >> when my gluten free friend is here.
>
> > A few points regarding this:
>
> > (1) Soba is not "pasta".
>
> In my WW materials (getting started and Complete Food companion) the only
> references to Soba are noodles and they are marked as NOT core. They are

> noodles made from Buckwheat flour.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soba. Isn't

> that pasta? (in the USA noodles = pasta)
>
> > (2) The WW Core list includes buckwheat.
>
> > (3) Soba is 100% buckwheat + water.
>
> > So...?
>
> Here is the confusing part of core. While Buckwheat is core, noodles made
> from buckwheat flour are not core. The only noodles that are core are those
> made from whole wheat. Also, making "flour" out of a core food such as
> buckwheat does not make the end product core. Another good example of that
> would be to convert buckwheat into flour to make pancakes. Many would
> consider those not core. My impression on this is that WW considers
> buckwheat and the other grains core only in raw, unprocessed form. I'm sure
> others will disagree bu this is how my leaders have explained things to the
> meetings I have been to.

But what is buckwheat except as a flour? Have you ever seen it any
other way?

doug

[Stormmee]

cereal or a grain like barley? Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193450874.0...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Willow Herself]

Buckwheat is a grain..

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message

news:5ofnltF...@mid.individual.net...

[Kate XXXXXX]

doug lerner wrote:

> But what is buckwheat except as a flour? Have you ever seen it any
> other way?

Yes: I can buy it as flakes (looks rather like porridge oats) and whole.
Remember that buckwheat isn't strictly a grain: it's the seed from a
plant of the rhubarb family.

[Kate XXXXXX]

Kate XXXXXX wrote:
> doug lerner wrote:
>
>> But what is buckwheat except as a flour? Have you ever seen it any
>> other way?
>
> Yes: I can buy it as flakes (looks rather like porridge oats) and whole.
> Remember that buckwheat isn't strictly a grain: it's the seed from a
> plant of the rhubarb family.
>

Just looked in the UK Shopping guide: Amoy Soba noodles ARE CORE on the
UK plan.

[Laura]

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193450874.0...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

At healthfood stores, yes.

As a grain it is core. Processed into Flour, it is not core. As willow said,
no flour is core. In the USA plan, Buck wheat or Soba noodles are not core
either.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=11

[doug lerner]

OK. Thanks. The "made into flour" rule makes sense.

But surely it is reasonable to consider soba noodles as a substitute
for one whole wheat pasta dish per day. Nutritionally it is the same,
if not better for you, than whole wheat pasta.

One last word about "pasta" vs "noodles" - they are not the same
thing.

Pasta is specifically from wheat, and may be shaped like a noodle or
like something else.

Noodles are a shape. Nobody in Japan would ever call soba noodles
"pasta".

As another example, consider shirataki. These are noodles made from
kon'nyaku and thus have ZERO calories. You can eat as much shirataki
as you want on any diet, I would think, because it's not digestible,
so cannot add to your weight. (They also don't have any taste, so I
don't know why people like them, except as filler.) Anyway, those
cannot be called "pasta" either.

Anyway, thanks for all the help, people. I think I have it all sorted
out now.

The only problem now is sticking with my diet - any diet - for more
than a few days at a time. After 850 days now my will-power has become
very very shaky.

doug

[Willow Herself]

Loosen it up a little... it's not an all or nothing kind of thing...

or am I repeating myself.. ;op

Good luck Doug, I really sincerly hope you figure this out.

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193534271....@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

On Oct 28, 10:52 am, "Willow Herself"

<willowki...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote:
> Loosen it up a little... it's not an all or nothing kind of thing...
>
> or am I repeating myself.. ;op
>
> Good luck Doug, I really sincerly hope you figure this out.

Before my figure fills out.

doug

[palmer...@googlemail.com]

Why Do People Diet?
People diet for many reasons. Some are at an unhealthy weight and need
to pay closer attention to their eating and exercise habits. Some play
sports and want to be in top physical condition. Others may think they
would look and feel better if they lost a few pounds.
http://loose-weight-for-a-healthy-life.blogspot.com/

[Gary G]

Sorry Doug but I feel continuing to stick to your "diet" is the wrong
approach...You need to learn to live within your needed calories...Sticking
to a diet is never going to work...You have proven you can lose...Now you
need to live life with food...I don't mean to sound like a jerk but you have
always said that you can never fall from the wagon...We all fall...Now Doug
take control and enjoy...I hope you understand the spirit of this post...GG

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193534271....@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

On Oct 29, 1:30 am, "Gary G" <mrhiggi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Sorry Doug but I feel continuing to stick to your "diet" is the wrong
> approach...You need to learn to live within your needed calories...Sticking
> to a diet is never going to work...You have proven you can lose...Now you
> need to live life with food...I don't mean to sound like a jerk but you have
> always said that you can never fall from the wagon...We all fall...Now Doug
> take control and enjoy...I hope you understand the spirit of this post...GG
>

Hi, Gary. I understand and appreciate the spirit of your post. I just
don't understand the *content*. :)

What exactly do you mean?

I don't think I ever said you can't fall from the wagon. I believe I
always said if you fall off the wagon then try again. And if that
fails, then try again. If that still fails, then try again. And if all
else fails, try yet again.

Eventually you get back on the wagon.

I believe that is what I always said.

I know I need to keep track of what I eat because it is too easy to
compromise and gain weight otherwise.

What I'm finding hard to do is return to the great will-power I had
the first two years. I desperately don't want to rebound!

doug

[Willow Herself]

Will-power is a short term solution. When you need willpower to be
successful, you are not changing your lifestyle, you're dieting, and it's
been proven over and over again not to work long term.

That's the "content" of his message.. and the ones I've been posting. You're
dieting, and nobody can diet permanently.

As my grandpa used to say, you can't find more deaf, than the man who
refuses to hear. We're trying to help you, but obviously we aren't saying
what you want to hear.

These are the wisest words posted on here in a long time: "You have proven
you can lose...Now you need to live life with food". It'd be immensely
helpfull to you to give those words serious thoughts..

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193609977....@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

It's really not fair to say that I am refusing to hear. Very unfair.
I'm clearly having trouble now staying on my diet. And saying vague
statements like "when you need willpower to be successful, you are not
changing your lifestyle" and "you're dieting, and it's been proven
over and over again not to work long term" provides absolutely no
information at all.

I am sorry to sound frustrated or ungrateful when you are trying to
help, but it all sounds, to be honest, very vague and Dr. Phil-ish.
While I'm having trouble right now, the trouble I'm having is not with
refusing to listen, it's just that really vague statement like "change
your lifestyle and don't diet" just really have no meaning at all to
me. I need to figure out what to do specifically here. I am really in
a panic situation.

I'm willing to try anything. But just saying "change your lifestyle"
is not a suggestion. It's just vague.

doug

On Oct 29, 8:35 am, "Willow Herself"

<willowki...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote:
> Will-power is a short term solution. When you need willpower to be
> successful, you are not changing your lifestyle, you're dieting, and it's
> been proven over and over again not to work long term.
>
> That's the "content" of his message.. and the ones I've been posting. You're
> dieting, and nobody can diet permanently.
>
> As my grandpa used to say, you can't find more deaf, than the man who
> refuses to hear. We're trying to help you, but obviously we aren't saying
> what you want to hear.
>
> These are the wisest words posted on here in a long time: "You have proven
> you can lose...Now you need to live life with food". It'd be immensely
> helpfull to you to give those words serious thoughts..
>
> Will~
>
> --
>
> "Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
> the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
> Dave Barry
>

> "doug lerner" <dougler...@gmail.com> wrote in message

[Kate XXXXXX]

doug lerner wrote:
> It's really not fair to say that I am refusing to hear. Very unfair.
> I'm clearly having trouble now staying on my diet. And saying vague
> statements like "when you need willpower to be successful, you are not
> changing your lifestyle" and "you're dieting, and it's been proven
> over and over again not to work long term" provides absolutely no
> information at all.
>
> I am sorry to sound frustrated or ungrateful when you are trying to
> help, but it all sounds, to be honest, very vague and Dr. Phil-ish.
> While I'm having trouble right now, the trouble I'm having is not with
> refusing to listen, it's just that really vague statement like "change
> your lifestyle and don't diet" just really have no meaning at all to
> me. I need to figure out what to do specifically here. I am really in
> a panic situation.
>
> I'm willing to try anything. But just saying "change your lifestyle"
> is not a suggestion. It's just vague.

Doug, it sounds to me as if, for you as for me, food is an intellectual
exercise as much as it is fuel. It needs to engage you on many levels.
Rather than the vague 'change your lifestyle', try doing something
specific.

Start by asking yourself the Three Big Questions:

Where am I now?
Where do I want to be?
How do I achieve that?

Start thinking of 'diet' as what you eat, whatever that is, rather than
the way you eat to shed weight or keep if off. It may sound trite, but
it is quite difficult, and you have to pull yourself up and adjust your
internal vocabulary quite specifically many times a day. You are never
'off your diet' for a start: this is just the way you ate today, and
tomorrow you will make a greater effort to make wiser choices... If you
skipped a few fruit and veg portions in favour of chips and cake, make
those the changes to make this time, for this day. If you find yourself
craving for something, look at why: what triggered it? Time of day? A
smell on the breeze? A colour? A person? And why is that a trigger for
that food craving? For me the smell or freshly ironed clothes
(especially cotton!) remind me of cake and I want it... The cats get
that smell when they lie up against the radiator, and a cat smelling of
cake... Well! ;)

Try a BIG change: rather than a specifically low calorie diet, take a
long and sensible look at a low GI diet. Give it a few months. If it
doesn't work, look at the options and try again.

Try planning: not just the main meals, but EVERYTHING you eat. Once I
started doing this, I started losing those extra pounds that crept back
on... It feels a bit obsessive at first, but it becomes like a Sudoku
puzzle: how can you fit X in this week? What are you going to do about
Y? I start by thinking 'I need to fit in 2 portions of oily fish for
health, one of red meat to keep the lads happy, and those 3 butternut
squash I bought but didn't use... And those potatoes need using up
before they sprout into Dr Who monsters!' and I carry on like that,
adding in factors like friends for dinner, swimming evenings, the boy
going to scouts meetings, all that life stuff, until I have a week or
more of meals planned, and then I write the shopping list, marking the
stuff I need NOW and the stuff I need LATER. Then I'm seriously sneaky
and send DH to get the shopping! :D THAT way I'm never tempted by
chocolate biscuits and Ben & Gerry's ice cream... Once the meals are
planned, I forget about food until I need to cook it. I check the menu
in the morning and fish out anything that needs to be defrosted, and set
aside time to relax and enjoy the cooking. Learning to timetable
cooking time is important, especially if you love cooking, as I do. It
doesn't have to take long: it's perfectly possible to have a 3 course
meal for six on the table within an hour. If Nigella can do it, so can we!

I've recently made two whopping changes to my diet: it's taken a bit of
energy and thought, which is why I've been here a bit less than usual.
Now, I'm a BIG fan of WW and the way it works: for four years I counted
points, and I shed 70lbs slowly and carefully during the first three.
OK, there were health issues that slowed things down, but I got there.
I'd taken 20 years to put this excess weight on, so a couple or three to
get rid of it was no biggy. So, it worked because I made it work for
me. Then I hit goal, and discovered, as so many do, that maintaining is
NOT as easy as it seems! Slowly, over the year, half a stone slid back
on, and my joints were feeling it. So a month ago I switched to the
Core program. I stopped thinking about five portions of fruit and veg
per day as what I *ought* to have, and started thinking of it as an
absolute minimum. I now aim for 10! I stopped the snack bars and the
nice biscuits, and only had my social cake at the meeting each week. In
the month I've shed three pounds: I put a measly half back on the week
of my son's birthday sleepover, but on the whole it was a good month.

Then came the second HUGE change... I've stopped eating wheat! This is
MUCH harder than going on a fat free diet because you can no longer
process fats after your gall bladder is removed! You end up reading a
whole lot of seriously BORING stuff on the backs of packets, looking for
wheat based products like malt extract, for a start. And beer... I
might have to give up beer too. :( I need to ask about that. Not that
I drink much anyway these days, but a decent pint of beer is a singular
joy...

This change was brought about by a long and serious discussion with a
coeliac friend and some research into alleviating rheumatoid complaints
through diet: my fibro has been seriously unpleasant this year, and was
topped off by spending 3 hours in A&E thinking I had a broken thumb
joint. It was a huge relief to find that it was 'only' an acute and
very localized flare-up of the fibro. Cutting out all wheat products
COMPLETELY seemed to be a key factor in reducing joint issues, so I
decided to try it. I'm giving it six months, but it has to be a
complete cut out. NO occasional slices of cake unless it's wheat free:
wheat free bread if I MUST have toast (though bread is not a Core food,
so I've cut it down considerably anyway). It's a seriously good thing
that I DO love cooking, have always cooked a huge amount of our food
from raw ingredients, and like the intellectual challenge, because it
goes very much against the grain (ooer! Sorry!) to be fussy, and it's
bad enough with the fats issue!

So give it a good hard think: look at the things that are possible for
you, and think 'How to I do that?' rather than 'This is so difficult'.
Make a big change, and make it work: no compromises because it's hard.
Look at the challenge and work out how to succeed rather than how to
bash the change to fit the old regime.

Bread is a BIG issue for me. I do LOVE bread in it's many wheat based
forms, but it has to go... So rather than look at all those gluten
removed flours with added gums to replace it, and anaemic loaves that
refuse to turn into toast, I'm looking at alternatives such as rye and
barley flours, and finding out why wheat has taken such a hold on the
western psyche. And I'm finding out where and how different breads were
developed, and the subtle but profound differences between noodles and
pasta...

So go and look at something like a low GI diet, and rather than
rejecting it as too difficult, decide how best to make it work for you.
Look at the traditional Japanese diet as well. What kept them so slim
and healthy for so long? WAS it simply diet? How did lifestyle impact
on it? And why are so many more folk getting so much fatter now? It is
all to do with diet, or are we less fit because we do less physical
work? ARE we less physical than our ancestors?

And good luck! You are going to need it. BUT you are a bright and
intelligent man who CAN do this. If and when you need help, moral
support, a good argument, someone to whine at, someone to toss them back
when you throw the toys out of the pram, we're here: that's what this
is all about.

[Gary G]

What I'm saying is that you can't live on the wagon...Sure in the beginning
we must learn to monitor ourselves but then we must learn to live with
food...I know you started before me and had terrific success...I thought we
had both reached goal around the same time...I also seem to recall that you
wanted to lose a little more and then you lost your best pal and maybe
moved???...I'm not really clear on how to express this but hope you find
your way in this...Life is always a compromise of some sort...Keep the faith
and try and enjoy your journey...GG

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193609977....@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

[Willow Herself]

Kate... you're just the best... You HAVE TO become a leader..

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Kate XXXXXX" <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message

news:13ibgie...@corp.supernews.com...

[Kate XXXXXX]

Willow Herself wrote:
> Kate... you're just the best... You HAVE TO become a leader..
>
> Will~
>

NOT without learning to drive... And THAT would take a miracle of
Biblical proportions!

But thank you for the thought.

[Willow Herself]

Oh c'mon, you even get to drive on the wrong side of the road!!! ;op

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"Kate XXXXXX" <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message

news:13icrtk...@corp.supernews.com...

[Stormmee]

the diet/lifestyle argument is one of perspective and how you look at what
your are doing... HTH, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193647317....@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[doug lerner]

Thanks again for your messages, people. Especially Kate for your
detailed message which must have taken you a lot of time and thought
to compose. And of course Gary, Stormee and Willow, etc.

Gary, I haven't moved but I am - now that you mention it - in the
middle of moving my house in Tokyo for the first time in 17 years!
Very stressfull! Here is where I am moving to:

http://lerner.net/doug/Shinkoiwa_House

While packing, I came across old diet diaries from 1998. Back then I
also lost a lot of weight, like I have over the past two years, and
ended up gaining it almost all back. So it was nostalgic to look back
and see my daily calorie calculations in these old notebooks, with my
weights scribbled in.

Back then, around 2000, the same thing happened to me as it is
happening now. I started falling off the wagon and losing my will
power and gaining weight.

Unlike then, though, I have one slight thing in my favor. One glimmer
of hope. That is, I am not blindly going into a tailspin and just
"going off" my diet for days and weeks at a time without tracking what
I am doing. I am weighing myself every day and considering all my
options actively.

But obviously something has "happened" to me mentally and it is just
HARD to stick with the same diet I had no trouble staying on for over
two years. Very strange. During all the time up to the beginning of
this year I really had no trouble following my weight loss plan. I
just never ever gave thought to going off my diet. Now it seems to be
all I can think about.

There have been articles lately about endomorphins and overeating. I
think it is true. There is a HIGH from the pleasure of just being able
to eat whatever you want. There is a feeling of lightness (contrary as
that may sound) and elation - even while realizing how bad you will
feel afterwards.

Anyway, my overriding diet theory has always been if something stops
working then rather than attempting to go back and do the same thing -
which seems too depressing - it is time to *tweak* what you are doing.

And if the tweak doesn't work, tweak again. And again. And again -
until something clicks again.

I've tried so many variations of the past couple of months, but there
is one variation I haven't tried yet - *pure* Core list only eating.

I think I get so obsessed with the calorie counts and/or carb counts
(depending on what I am doing) that the limitations of those figures
was beginning to weigh on me (no pun intended).

So for just a week or two or however long it feels comfortable, I'm
going to try to eat JUST from the Core foods list, and not make any
use of the weekly "free points" (or free calories in my case).

What I end up using the free points for are things that are trigger
foods - usually high glycemic snacks like ice cream or chocolate.

So for just a bit I think I'll try just limiting myself to Core foods
and see how it feels - and explore more healthy snacks, like fruits
and whatever. Any good TV snack food Core suggestions?

But I know enough to know this is not a permanent solution. If I feel
comfortable doing this for a bit, then I'll think about adding a
certain amount of free calories/points in very slowly.

Anyway, it's 9:00 pm already, and I've just eaten Core stuff all day.
And I didn't feel a need to use one of the pasta/potato/rice portions
either.

I'll report back in and let people know how it is going.

Thanks everybody for your supportive notes!

doug

[Willow Herself]

The Core plan gives you 35 "extra point for a reason.

If you eat "Pure" core, instead of obsessing on calories, you'll be
obsessing on the list.

You're moving the problem, not solving it.

Will~

--

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built
the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."
Dave Barry

"doug lerner" <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1193745638.5...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Stormmee]

excellent post, when you come up with a good wheat free bread I want you to
post it, Lee

Kate XXXXXX <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message

news:13ibgie...@corp.supernews.com...

[Stormmee]

great start, Lee

doug lerner <dougl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1193745638.5...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Stormmee]

it might be good for him to get rid of the junk though, then add in slowly,
Lee

Willow Herself <willo...@somethingkikeseamountains.net> wrote in message

news:dBGVi.2014$yV6...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...

[Kate XXXXXX]

Stormmee wrote:
> excellent post, when you come up with a good wheat free bread I want you to
> post it, Lee

Will do, though you may not find it your side of the pond...

[Stormmee]

for something wheat free and good tasting I will work on it, I am beginning
to think this might be part of my issues, Lee

Kate XXXXXX <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message

news:13ifcdv...@corp.supernews.com...

[doug lerner]

[yur...@hotmail.com]

On 27 Oct, 07:42, Kate XXXXXX <k...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk>
wrote:

> doug lerner wrote:
> > But what is buckwheat except as a flour? Have you ever seen it any
> > other way?
>
> Yes: I can buy it as flakes (looks rather like porridge oats) and whole.
> Remember that buckwheat isn't strictly a grain: it's the seed from a
> plant of the rhubarb family.
>
> --
> Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls

> Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttonshttp://www.katedicey.co.uk

> Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

KATE Try this site I gaurantee you will loose weight I did from 18st
to 12st www.mybeautyinsideout.co.uk

[Kate XXXXXX]

Why quit WW now? I lost 5 stone with them, and only need to shed the
last half to be back where I want to be.