Good nutrition for kidneys
Just
food is good for the eyes to prevent
degeneration etc (by Quentin Grady).
I was happy that I intake a good quantity
of some of the foods recommened by Quentin
for the eyes - like Onion & Cilanthro.
Is there a similiar list of foodstuff which is good
for maintaining the health of the healthy kidneys
and also reversing damage in kidneys with mild
problems? 2 different Questions, because asking
for 2 different people.
Quentin Grady
G'day G'day Just,
Someone it likely to know more about this than me as some issues
affect some people more than others. Collectively we will discover
much more than any of us individually know.
Here are few comments. Protein can heal or injure kidneys depending
on the condition of the kidneys, the type of protein and the amounts.
Normal kidney are remarkable robust. There is some literature to
suggest vegetable proteins help heal the kidneys. The reason is that
they are higher in arginine. Nuts are generally a good source of
arginine, so is bone marrow as found in genuine chicken soup. I can't
give you an adequate hypothesis why arginine works ... it could be
that it improved circulation. If that is so then it is reasonable to
suggest that stopping smoking makes sense.
Another thought concerns milk thistle. A long time ago I read a paper
that suggested it had some protective function for the kidneys just as
it has for the liver. Start Googling folks.
Some rather obvious thoughts are that controlling blood glucose is
going to help. There is another obvious idea to Google
Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."
Jenny
> Is there a similiar list of foodstuff which is good
> for maintaining the health of the healthy kidneys
Possibly the best thing you can do to maintain healthy kidneys is not so
much what you eat, but what you don't eat.
Number one on the list are the painkillers. There's accumulating
evidence that the lifetime load of Tylenol varies directly with the
health of the kidneys. The more you take, the worse they get.
The other NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, Naproxen, etc) also have been associated
with kidney problems. Here's a snippet from the Mayo Clinic web site:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pain-medications/PN00058
"NSAIDs have anti-clotting effects, so you may notice that you bleed or
bruise more easily. Large doses of NSAIDs can also lead to kidney
problems and fluid retention, which can worsen congestive heart failure.
NSAIDs can cause liver function test abnormalities, as well as ringing
in the ears, headache, dizziness and drowsiness. Mouth sores and skin
rashes also can occur while taking NSAIDs."
> and also reversing damage in kidneys with mild
> problems? 2 different Questions, because asking
> for 2 different people.
High blood sugars are the prime factors that cause early kidney disease.
And there is growing evidence that cutting down on your carb intake
can reverse early kidney changes. Once the filtering units have been
destroyed and the kidney damage is serious, protein does make things
worse, but in the early stages, this does not appear to be true. There's
a long discussion of this with some cites in Richard K. Bernstein M.D.'s
book "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution" which is worth reading as it
explains in detail how high blood sugars destroy the kidney and when you
can safely lower carbs with kidney disease.
>
--
--Jenny
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
Sugar Under Control
Evelyn Ruut
"Just" <ju...@leblanc.com> wrote in message
news:474c0nF...@individual.net...
You have received excellent advice from Jenny and Quentin. My 2 cents is
simply this: Get enough water. I know it seems simple, but I am not
talking about soda, coffee or tea, juice or milk. I am talking about simple
WATER. Your kidneys need water and the toxins they remove from your body
are suspended in water. There is evidence that the occurrence of kidney
stones are greatly reduced in simply consuming enough water. (see the
book, "No More Kidney Stones" written by a doctor...don't have it handy,
but search for it on Amazon)
There is also evidence that if you wait until you feel actual thirst to
drink water, you are too late. The sensation of thirst is often lost in
older people, and they can become dehydrated without ever feeling thirsty.
So if you really want to help your kidneys, drink water, and make it a
habit. Do it even if you aren't feeling particularly thirsty. Keep track
of how much actual water you are drinking every day, and if it is less than
three big glasses full, you may be not getting enough and doing your kidneys
a disservice.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Just
> G'day G'day Just,
>
> Someone it likely to know more about this than me as some issues
> affect some people more than others. Collectively we will discover
> much more than any of us individually know.
>
> Here are few comments. Protein can heal or injure kidneys depending
> on the condition of the kidneys, the type of protein and the amounts.
>
> Normal kidney are remarkable robust. There is some literature to
> suggest vegetable proteins help heal the kidneys. The reason is that
> they are higher in arginine. Nuts are generally a good source of
> arginine, so is bone marrow as found in genuine chicken soup. I can't
> give you an adequate hypothesis why arginine works ... it could be
> that it improved circulation. If that is so then it is reasonable to
> suggest that stopping smoking makes sense.
>
> Another thought concerns milk thistle. A long time ago I read a paper
> that suggested it had some protective function for the kidneys just as
> it has for the liver. Start Googling folks.
Thank you, Quentin.
I thought of also looking at a different angle also. Reducing blood
pressure problems, if any, should also help protect kidneys, right?
I googled an old post of yours for BP which suggested
fish, fish oil & increasing pottasium. I think bananas have
a lot of pottasium, so that maybe worth trying.
Quentin Grady
>Quentin Grady wrote:
>> G'day G'day Just,
>>
>> Someone it likely to know more about this than me as some issues
>> affect some people more than others. Collectively we will discover
>> much more than any of us individually know.
>>
>> Here are few comments. Protein can heal or injure kidneys depending
>> on the condition of the kidneys, the type of protein and the amounts.
>>
>> Normal kidney are remarkable robust. There is some literature to
>> suggest vegetable proteins help heal the kidneys. The reason is that
>> they are higher in arginine. Nuts are generally a good source of
>> arginine, so is bone marrow as found in genuine chicken soup. I can't
>> give you an adequate hypothesis why arginine works ... it could be
>> that it improved circulation. If that is so then it is reasonable to
>> suggest that stopping smoking makes sense.
>>
>> Another thought concerns milk thistle. A long time ago I read a paper
>> that suggested it had some protective function for the kidneys just as
>> it has for the liver. Start Googling folks.
>
>Thank you, Quentin.
>
>I thought of also looking at a different angle also. Reducing blood
>pressure problems, if any, should also help protect kidneys, right?
G'day G'day Just,
My GP is very keen to control blood pressure in diabetics.
Some routinely use ACE inhibitors as a preventative.
>I googled an old post of yours for BP which suggested
>fish, fish oil & increasing pottasium. I think bananas have
>a lot of pottasium, so that maybe worth trying.
I'm not a fan of bananas. When I had no other complications I could
eat about a half banana before my blood glucose went too high.
Avocados are a better choice for T2 diabetics. Half an avocado has
the same potassium as a whole banana for a mere fraction of the carbs.
FWIIW, almost any serving of vegetables will do. That was the point
of the DASH diet which dealt specifically with hypertension; replace
some refined carbs from grain with some fruit and vegetables to raise
potassium and magnesium rather than lower sodium. It worked even with
a salt sensitive subpopulation.
Jenny
> I googled an old post of yours for BP which suggested
> fish, fish oil & increasing pottasium. I think bananas have
> a lot of pottasium, so that maybe worth trying.
Bananas are also loaded with sugar, which is the last thing your kidneys
need.
You can get all the potassium you need from a single sprinkle of Morton
Salt Substitute which is potassium chloride. No need to load up on
sugary foods.
Alan S
<que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>I'm not a fan of bananas. When I had no other complications I could
>eat about a half banana before my blood glucose went too high.
>Avocados are a better choice for T2 diabetics. Half an avocado has
>the same potassium as a whole banana for a mere fraction of the carbs.
My personal experience backs that up. I gave up bananas
within the first month of testing - despite living in the
middle of a banana-producing district. The good news is that
it is also an avocado-producing district:-)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Alan S
Doesn't the water included in coffee, wine, diet sodas etc
count?
Dennis R
>
> Possibly the best thing you can do to maintain healthy kidneys is not so
> much what you eat, but what you don't eat.
>
> Number one on the list are the painkillers. There's accumulating
> evidence that the lifetime load of Tylenol varies directly with the
> health of the kidneys. The more you take, the worse they get.
>
> The other NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, Naproxen, etc) also have been associated
> with kidney problems. Here's a snippet from the Mayo Clinic web site:
>
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pain-medications/PN00058
> "NSAIDs have anti-clotting effects, so you may notice that you bleed or
> bruise more easily. Large doses of NSAIDs can also lead to kidney
> problems and fluid retention, which can worsen congestive heart failure.
> NSAIDs can cause liver function test abnormalities, as well as ringing
> in the ears, headache, dizziness and drowsiness. Mouth sores and skin
> rashes also can occur while taking NSAIDs."
High sustained doses of acetaminophen (Tylenol) tend to strain and
damage the liver, while high sustained doses of ibuprofen (Advil) cause
the same problems with kidneys. People with back pains or types of
arthritis for example might be taking 8 325 mg pills per day of
acetaminophen for long periods of time, which is asking for trouble.
Acetominophen is often added to O.T.C. cold and flu remedies, which most
people don't seem to be aware of. This was emphasized over and over to
us at our transplant centre.
People like me who get no relief whatsoever from acetaminophen turn to
ibuprofen for muscle and joint pain. Since I already have kidney
disease, I have to limit myself to taking just enough to take the edge
off the pain for fear of causing further kidney damage. In my case,
living with some pain after an injury is better than going back to
dialysis. I also have comprehensive blood tests drawn quarterly to watch
for any abnormal readings.
>
>> and also reversing damage in kidneys with mild
>> problems? 2 different Questions, because asking
>> for 2 different people.
>
> High blood sugars are the prime factors that cause early kidney disease.
> And there is growing evidence that cutting down on your carb intake
> can reverse early kidney changes. Once the filtering units have been
> destroyed and the kidney damage is serious, protein does make things
> worse, but in the early stages, this does not appear to be true. There's
> a long discussion of this with some cites in Richard K. Bernstein M.D.'s
> book "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution" which is worth reading as it
> explains in detail how high blood sugars destroy the kidney and when you
> can safely lower carbs with kidney disease.
>
A very sobering thought for everybody should be that the largest group
of new patients being admitted to dialysis in the last 10 to 15 years in
North America and Western Europe is older, long term diabetics who for
many years had at best, marginal control. Years ago, they would not have
survived into their sixties to take advantage of dialysis. They often
died from cardiac diseases. Aggressive campaigns to diagnose diabetes
earlier, combined with the knowledge gained from the DCCT that tighter
control yields better health outcomes, as well as the introduction of
better medicines, have extended the lifespans of many more diabetics
than before. I saw this first hand during my 15 months on dialysis, and
confirmed it with the experience encountered by the R.N.'s in the unit.
Lowering carbs without increasing protein can help in the the very early
stages, and so far studies suggest that higher protein, low carb diets
are not a problem if there is no evidence of loss of kidney function.
However, certain vegetarian sources of protein may stress damaged
kidneys almost as much as meat proteins, so professional advice with a
dietitian specializing in renal diets in co-ordination with your medical
practitioner is advised. For example, phosphorus and potassium, as well
as magnesium can overload already stressed kidneys. Legumes, whole
grains, high potassium fruits and tomatoes, mushrooms, dairy products,
colas, and even tofu should therefore be taken in portions that only the
dietitian can recommend, based on the stage of your particular medical
condition. Red meats of course, are high in both proteins and phosphorus.
Dennis (Type 2, Kidney Transplant 1995)
The kidneys also play a major role in regulating blood pressure. The
blood vessels in the kidney tend to constrict and work harder in the
presence of higher blood pressures, which is a bad idea if they are
already under stress and not working properly. That is why many
endocrinologists and others who treat diabetics are aggressively
prescribing ACE or ARB inhibitors to prevent or reduce kidney damage in
diabetics even if the patient's blood pressure seems to be "okay". Mine
actually "forced" my kidney transplant doctors to put me back on an ACE
by sending them a formal letter for the record asking that since I
suffered from both kidney disease AND diabetes, what possible reasoning
were they using?
Jenny
>
> High sustained doses of acetaminophen (Tylenol) tend to strain and
> damage the liver,
I read recently (Sorry, I don't have the reference anymore) that that
the lifetime load of Tylenol directly affects the functioning of the
kidneys, too. Though the liver damage connection is better known. I saw
a study on this last year and it depressed the hell out of me because
Tylenol is the only painkiller I can take.
>
Since I already have kidney
> disease, I have to limit myself to taking just enough to take the edge
> off the pain for fear of causing further kidney damage. In my case,
> living with some pain after an injury is better than going back to
> dialysis.
I can well understand that!
I suffered permanent hearing damage and tinnitus from a normal dose of
an NSAID and now can't take any of them for fear of worsening the
tinnitus. Since I have ruptured discs pain is an ongoing issue for me
too, but I only take a pill when the pain is intolerable, which
fortunately isn't that often. Luckily for me, only one 325 mg of Tylenol
works very well for me for nerve pain. I just have my fingers crossed I
don't develop arthritis (which both my parents had) because I can't take
aspirin either.
> The kidneys also play a major role in regulating blood pressure. The
> blood vessels in the kidney tend to constrict and work harder in the
> presence of higher blood pressures, which is a bad idea if they are
> already under stress and not working properly. That is why many
> endocrinologists and others who treat diabetics are aggressively
> prescribing ACE or ARB inhibitors to prevent or reduce kidney damage in
> diabetics even if the patient's blood pressure seems to be "okay". Mine
> actually "forced" my kidney transplant doctors to put me back on an ACE
> by sending them a formal letter for the record asking that since I
> suffered from both kidney disease AND diabetes, what possible reasoning
> were they using?
>
Very good advice! Blood pressure control does seem to be extremely
important in keeping the kidneys happy.
Glad to hear that you were able to get the kidney and that it works.
Dennis R
>
> You have received excellent advice from Jenny and Quentin. My 2 cents is
> simply this: Get enough water. I know it seems simple, but I am not
> talking about soda, coffee or tea, juice or milk. I am talking about simple
> WATER. Your kidneys need water and the toxins they remove from your body
> are suspended in water. There is evidence that the occurrence of kidney
> stones are greatly reduced in simply consuming enough water. (see the
> book, "No More Kidney Stones" written by a doctor...don't have it handy,
> but search for it on Amazon)
>
> There is also evidence that if you wait until you feel actual thirst to
> drink water, you are too late. The sensation of thirst is often lost in
> older people, and they can become dehydrated without ever feeling thirsty.
>
> So if you really want to help your kidneys, drink water, and make it a
> habit. Do it even if you aren't feeling particularly thirsty. Keep track
> of how much actual water you are drinking every day, and if it is less than
> three big glasses full, you may be not getting enough and doing your kidneys
> a disservice.
>
Amen to that!. With adequate hydration, your urine should never be more
than a light or pale yellow, not dark like strong tea (green or
otherwise). In addition, you reduce the risk of bladder cancers and some
infections.
Evelyn Ruut
"Alan S" <loralweig...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:vc2s02d9k0ehd41o2...@4ax.com...
Hi Alan,
As long as you are getting enough real water in your diet too. As Dennis
commented in another reply in this same thread, the color of ones urine
ought to tell the tale.
The good thing is that real water doesn't contain any alcohol, caffeine,
phosphates (as in soda) or calories or carbohydrates, all of which may
appear in the other drinks you mentioned. Many of those are not good for
ones kidneys in the quantities you need to keep your urine clear.
Sleepyman
wrote:
I see lots of "can" , I don't see any "does, or will cause"
Sleepy
------------------------------------------------------------------
It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig.
-George Santayana (1863-1952)
------------------------------------------------------------------
jacquie
Osteoartheritis in my knees. My right knee has become very painful in the
last three weeks...can't even sleep. The only medicine I can take are
narcotics...Not my favorite type of drug. Tylenol doesn't touch the pain.
I can no longer take Ace Inhibitors because of a Serum reaction to it. I
think I could probably take one type but my Dr doesn't want to take any
chances. ARB Inhibitors give me shortness of breath...which my Dr says can
be a sign of an Allergy. It seems just in the past ten years I have become
more allergic to meds. I used to take high doses of Ibuprofen(in the 80's)
for back pain...I had no problems...Now I get all stuffy and find it
difficult to take deep breaths. I have become paranoid about trying new
drugs...:) So far my Kidneys are in good working order and I try very hard
to keep my numbers down:)
jacquie
"Jenny" <lott...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a76dnfNsLrI...@rcn.net...
Chakolate
> Is there a similiar list of foodstuff which is good
> for maintaining the health of the healthy kidneys
> and also reversing damage in kidneys with mild
> problems? 2 different Questions, because asking
> for 2 different people.
>
I only know one - cranberry. Juice, fruit, whatever.
Chak
--
I would like at least one political party in this country to be willing
to say that sex is fun and an important part of being human.
--PZ Myers, http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
Alan Hardy
> >
> > High sustained doses of acetaminophen (Tylenol) tend to strain and
> > damage the liver,
>
> I read recently (Sorry, I don't have the reference anymore) that that
> the lifetime load of Tylenol directly affects the functioning of the
> kidneys, too. Though the liver damage connection is better known. I saw
> a study on this last year and it depressed the hell out of me because
> Tylenol is the only painkiller I can take.
>
Find the reference or don't make the statement.
> >
> Since I already have kidney
> > disease, I have to limit myself to taking just enough to take the edge
> > off the pain for fear of causing further kidney damage. In my case,
> > living with some pain after an injury is better than going back to
> > dialysis.
>
> I can well understand that!
>
> I suffered permanent hearing damage and tinnitus from a normal dose of
> an NSAID
>
Uniquely STUPID, or UNTRUTHFUL, or BOTH.
> and now can't take any of them for fear of worsening the
> tinnitus. Since I have ruptured discs pain is an ongoing issue for me
> too, but I only take a pill when the pain is intolerable, which
> fortunately isn't that often. Luckily for me, only one 325 mg of Tylenol
> works very well for me for nerve pain.
>
See a few lines above.
> I just have my fingers crossed I
> don't develop arthritis (which both my parents had) because I can't take
> aspirin either.
>
> > The kidneys also play a major role in regulating blood pressure. The
> > blood vessels in the kidney tend to constrict and work harder in the
> > presence of higher blood pressures, which is a bad idea if they are
> > already under stress and not working properly. That is why many
> > endocrinologists and others who treat diabetics are aggressively
> > prescribing ACE or ARB inhibitors to prevent or reduce kidney damage in
> > diabetics even if the patient's blood pressure seems to be "okay". Mine
> > actually "forced" my kidney transplant doctors to put me back on an ACE
> > by sending them a formal letter for the record asking that since I
> > suffered from both kidney disease AND diabetes, what possible reasoning
> > were they using?
> >
>
> Very good advice! Blood pressure control does seem to be extremely
> important in keeping the kidneys happy.
>
> Glad to hear that you were able to get the kidney and that it works.
>
>
Remember folks, Jenny has NO medical qualifications. Remember also that the
a.s.d charter states unequivocally that technical advice belongs on m.h.d
and recipes and nutrition belong on a.f.d -- a.s.d is for support and
encouragement.
If Jenny [or others] offer diagnostic or prescriptive advice, ignore them or
report to A.M.A for attempting to practise medicine on the net, and without
a medical licence. If Jenny [or others] offer support, good, it is to be
welcomed.
Jenny
> I am allergic to all over the counter pain meds except Tylenol...and have
> Osteoartheritis in my knees. My right knee has become very painful in the
> last three weeks...can't even sleep. The only medicine I can take are
> narcotics...Not my favorite type of drug. Tylenol doesn't touch the pain.
> I can no longer take Ace Inhibitors because of a Serum reaction to it.
Sorry to hear about the knee pain!
Avoiding NSAIDs for arthritis may actually help you out, long term,
since there is evidence that while they cut down pain, they also fight
against the rebuilding of the joint tissue.
I'm assuming you've tried glucosamine and not found it helpful. If not,
it is worth a try. The recent controlled trials for it came out with a
mixed result, but so many people with arthritis find it useful, it has
to be worth a try.
Beyond that, have you tried acupuncture? When pain meds aren't an option
or don't work it can sometimes help dramatically. Getting a referral to
someone good is important. If you have a local hospital pain clinic,
calling them for a referral might help. I've done very well with two
different graduates of the New England School of Acupuncture.
--Jenny
>> http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
>>
>> http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
>> Sugar Under Control
>
>
--
Jenny
>
> I only know one - cranberry. Juice, fruit, whatever.
>
I don't think cranberry juice is for kidney health. It is usually used
to change the pH of the bladder and prevent bladder infections. But
there's too much sugar in the juice for this to help people with
diabetes. For this reason some people use a pill containing an extract.
With my long history of urinary tract problems, I've never found
cranberry juice of much help, but that may be because the site of my
infections isn't the bladder. I was on a cranberry juice regimen when I
was diagnosed in the doctor's office with the 240 mg/dl blood sugar,
probably not coincidental. The sourness of the berry masks the very high
concentration of sugar in the juice.
Alan Hardy
"Jenny" <lottaboasting@ bighead.com> wrote
> With my long history of urinary tract problems,
>
Is there any medical problem you don't have? If I claimed testicular cancer,
I bet you would claim you've got it.
Evelyn Ruut
"Alan Hardy" <alan.ha...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6XAPf.33235$Ru5....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
Your comments are awfully mean spirited and un-helpful, whereas Jenny's have
always been kind hearted and helpful.
This is your second nasty reply in this thread.
I think it might be best to killfile you. In fact that's exactly what I am
going to do.
Plonk.
Just
> Dennis R wrote:
>>
>> High sustained doses of acetaminophen (Tylenol) tend to strain and
>> damage the liver,
>
> I read recently (Sorry, I don't have the reference anymore) that that
> the lifetime load of Tylenol directly affects the functioning of the
> kidneys, too. Though the liver damage connection is better known. I
> saw a study on this last year and it depressed the hell out of me
> because Tylenol is the only painkiller I can take.
What about aspirin as a painkiller? Does it cause any kidney or liver
damage? Likewise what about stuff like oxycodone?
Alan Hardy
> Alan Hardy wrote
> > Jenny wrote
> >
> >> With my long history of urinary tract problems,
> >>
> > Is there any medical problem you don't have? If I claimed testicular
> > cancer,
> > I bet you would claim you've got it.
>
> Your comments are awfully mean spirited and un-helpful, whereas Jenny's
have
> always been kind hearted and helpful.
>
> This is your second nasty reply in this thread.
>
Not nasty, but accurate - she is NOT a doctor, and the charter DOES say what
it says. Pete took notice - he deserves commendation, so why not Jenny?
> I think it might be best to killfile you. In fact that's exactly what I
am
> going to do.
>
Ooh, the killfile threat!! I am heartbroken - NOT.
BTW I don't usually post like this. Did you stop to wonder why?
Jenny
> What about aspirin as a painkiller? Does it cause any kidney or liver
> damage? Likewise what about stuff like oxycodone?
>
I haven't seen anything about aspirin and the organ damage, but that
doesn't mean that it doesn't cause problems.
The main problem that I'm aware of with aspirin, however, is that it
decreases platelets and promotes bleeding. This is good if you have a
tendency to clotting (which is why they suggest people take a baby
aspirin each day to prevent heart attacks, which are caused by clots.)
But if you have a tendency to bleed already (which is often the case if
you bruise very easily) too much aspirin might make it easier to burst a
blood vessel someplace useful, like your brain. And if your stomach
lining is not in good shape the bleeding aspirin causes can lead to
serious ulcers and even, very rarely, fatal gastrointestinal bleeding.
Oxycodone's biggest problem is that it is addictive and much in demand
as a street drug. In our area the pharmacies were having so many
break-ins caused by people trying to steal it, that they no longer keep
it in stock. If you have a prescription for it, they will mail it to
your house. By the time you get to where it is truly appropriate for you
to take more than a handful, you should be dealing with a pain problem
so severe that other long-time health considerations have to take a back
seat to pain relief.
jacquie
about 6 years ago...I tried it for about a year I didn't notice any change
at all. I gave up walking two miles a day because after about a half of a
mile the pain was so intense I had to sit down. Bicycle riding even
aggravates it. I think our local teaching hospital might have a pain
clinic...I'll ask my sister...she works there. I never thought about
acupuncture...something to check into..Thanks:)
jacquie
"Jenny" <lott...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2N6dnXmvuq6...@rcn.net...
Evelyn Ruut
"jacquie" <happi...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:YOGPf.1863$x94....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I didn't notice any difference when using glucosamine ...they put me on it
> about 6 years ago...I tried it for about a year I didn't notice any change
> at all. I gave up walking two miles a day because after about a half of a
> mile the pain was so intense I had to sit down. Bicycle riding even
> aggravates it. I think our local teaching hospital might have a pain
> clinic...I'll ask my sister...she works there. I never thought about
> acupuncture...something to check into..Thanks:)
>
> jacquie
Hi Jacquie,
Acupuncture didn't help me, but then I do know of others whom it did help.
Give it a try, but if you don't see results within a couple of weeks, don't
waste too much money on a lost cause.
As for Glucosamine, I tried the standard Glucosamine/Chondroitin combination
and after a few weeks I did get some help, but I got a lot more help when I
started taking the one which contains MSM as well. It is the same
combination, but it has "plus MSM" right on the label. That stuff did help
me.
Good luck.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
>
Alan S
<alan.ha...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>BTW I don't usually post like this. Did you stop to wonder why?
I certainly did, Alan. I was actually about to check whether
someone was using your name.
I was very surprised with the content and tone of your posts
- so I was very puzzled.
What's up?
Chakolate
r...@rcn.net:
> The sourness of the berry masks the very high
> concentration of sugar in the juice.
Only if sugar is added - the berry has 46 calories for 100 grams, which
is a bit more than a cup of whole berries.
Did you think I meant commercial cranberry juice, like Ocean Spray? That
*does* have lots of sugar, but it doesn't come from the berries.
Chakolate
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:44:55 GMT, "Alan Hardy"
> <alan.ha...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>BTW I don't usually post like this. Did you stop to wonder why?
>
> I certainly did, Alan. I was actually about to check whether
> someone was using your name.
>
> I was very surprised with the content and tone of your posts
> - so I was very puzzled.
>
> What's up?
Does that mean he isn't usually so mean? I shall have to resurrect him
from my killfile for a bit.
Dennis R
>> Dennis R wrote:
>>> High sustained doses of acetaminophen (Tylenol) tend to strain and
>>> damage the liver,
> Says who? A study cited, please - or don't make definitve statements.
The FDA Letter to State Boards of Pharmacy dated January 22, 2004
clarifies their general position on acetaminophen toxicity specifically
on the liver and possibly the kidneys, as well as the toxicity of other
NSAIDs. The purpose was to emphasize the need to have consumers warned
about the actual toxicity levels and the problem of accidental or
unintentional overdosing.
http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/analgesics/letter.htm
The FDA approved maximum daily dose is 4 grams (4,000 mg), eg. 8 x 500
mg tablets. From what I could read in the following study, most
non-intentional overdoses were at 7.5 grams, and often occurred after
more than 7 days use. However, some occurred at less than 7 days use.
Hepatology
Volume 42, Issue 6, Pages 1364-1372
Published Online: 29 Nov 2005
Acetaminophen-induced acute liver failure: Results of a United States
multicenter, prospective study
(Full Text)
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/112161379/HTMLSTART
PMID: 16317692 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
This is the first time I have used MEDLINE, so I am not that well versed
on how to get the full text of the other abstracts I found searching on:
acetaminophen, hepatoxicity. I am more used to seeing the summaries in
MEDSCAPE newsletters. I tend to trust MEDSCAPE, but maybe I am naive.
Besides, liver toxicity due to acetaminophen overdosing has been well
publicized, and I heard the same things from my transplant centre back
in the late 1990's.
Thanks for keeping me honest though.
> Remember folks, Jenny has NO medical qualifications. Remember also that the
> a.s.d charter states unequivocally that technical advice belongs on m.h.d
> and recipes and nutrition belong on a.f.d -- a.s.d is for support and
> encouragement.
>
> If Jenny [or others] offer diagnostic or prescriptive advice, ignore them or
> report to A.M.A for attempting to practise medicine on the net, and without
> a medical licence. If Jenny [or others] offer support, good, it is to be
> welcomed.
>
I know that some people have issues with Jenny, but I did not see
anything in this thread that hasn't been posted in a.s.d before, but
maybe I didn't see it the way you did.
Alan H
Alan
"Dennis R" <dennis...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:440F9B13...@sympatico.ca...
Alan H
> Alan Hardy wrote:
>
> >BTW I don't usually post like this. Did you stop to wonder why?
>
> I certainly did, Alan. I was actually about to check whether
> someone was using your name.
>
> I was very surprised with the content and tone of your posts
> - so I was very puzzled.
>
> What's up?
>
boasted about it.
First, I got severely physically punished for lying when I was a child, so
when I see self-styled experts on Usenet [ ""Usenet"" ffs ] I over-react.
Let's remember, please, a family physician takes seven years to train, and a
specialist another 5 years on top of that. The "experts" I refer to [note
the plural, please] have not seven minutes between the lot of them. I think
they probably cause a lot of damage, so I certainly agree with David there.
Second, using the dreaded killfile sometimes means you [generic'you'] simply
haven't bothered to stop and research the poster, nor to wonder why the
so-called mean spirit.
Third, and I have absolutely no right to inflict this on others [OTOH it is
a support group] my left hand and fingers have knotted into a solid fist of
arthritic pain. If Jenny is still bothering to read, she is absolutely right
to be concerned about avoiding it if poss.
Alan H
Alan H
> Alan S wrote
> > Alan Hardy wrote:
> >
> >>BTW I don't usually post like this. Did you stop to wonder why?
> >
> > I certainly did, Alan. I was actually about to check whether
> > someone was using your name.
> >
> > I was very surprised with the content and tone of your posts
> > - so I was very puzzled.
> >
> > What's up?
>
> Does that mean he isn't usually so mean? I shall have to resurrect him
> from my killfile for a bit.
>
> Chak
>
perhaps you should be a little less hasty in condemning people? Maybe try
google archives to find what a poster is really like?
Alan S
wrote:
>Third, and I have absolutely no right to inflict this on others [OTOH it is
>a support group] my left hand and fingers have knotted into a solid fist of
>arthritic pain. If Jenny is still bothering to read, she is absolutely right
>to be concerned about avoiding it if poss.
>
>Alan H
Sorry about the arthritis Alan. I wouldn't wish that on
anyone.
I'd ask just one favour. Tomorrow, when hopefully things
look and feel better, re-read what you wrote, and who to,
and decide whether it's really a fair comment.
I won't enter into a flame war on it. I'll just note that
I've yet to find a significant occasion to doubt Jenny or
the references she cites. And I'm well aware that she is a
patient, not a doctor.
I'll leave it there; I sincerely hope your pain goes soon.
Chakolate
news:6cRPf.64949$Dn4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net:
> Well, Chak, I don't have the right to dictate to you what you should
> do, but perhaps you should be a little less hasty in condemning
> people? Maybe try google archives to find what a poster is really
> like?
>
If the volume of this group was lower, I would probably do that. If the
ratio of trolls and meanies to supporters was lower, I would probably do
that.
At one time, this group was so troll- and meanie-ridden that I stopped
killfiling and started scoring a half-dozen posters high. Then I only
read the ones with high scores.
I come here for information and support. When I find hostility and anger
and meanness, it undoes a lot of the good that the group does me. Since
the volume is so high, I find I just do better if I axe the meanies.
Occasionally, someone will refer a poster to another poster for good
advice, or commend the good advice some poster has given, and then I
score that person high for a while. But time is limited - I spend it
researching my disease, not other posters.
Best,
jacquie
about my right knee keeping me awake at nights. She decided it was time for
x-rays(It's been about 12 years) So waiting the results of those...I swear
she decided to catch me up at everything yesterday...she decided I needed
the Pneumonia shot...and a Tetanus shot...she also forgot my A1C when she
ordered my lipids so she sent me to the Lab for that. I got my lipids back
but we really didn't have time to discuss them...she wanted to wait for my
A1C to come back. My Chol was 179...but my Triglycerides were 229...she
said if my A1C was normal she would have to put me on meds to get the
Triglycerides numbers down.
She keeps on telling me to exercise...the only thing I can do is swim and
even here in the desert it is to cold to swim....We live to far away to go
to a Gym daily. Somedays it feels like there is no way to win.
jacquie
"Evelyn Ruut" <mama-l...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:JwJPf.11624$4%1.8...@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
bj
> She keeps on telling me to exercise...the only thing I can do is swim and
> even here in the desert it is to cold to swim....We live to far away to go
> to a Gym daily. Somedays it feels like there is no way to win.
> jacquie
>
Can you do any kind of armchair exercises? seated aerobics? resistance
training? (bands are cheap to buy & easy to use).
bj
jacquie
"bj" <bjon...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:ZqqQf.9466$CI6.7284@trnddc07...