Dirty Electricity

[Wes Groleau]

You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!

http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf

I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.

--
Wes Groleau

First Language Acquisition observed up—close & personal
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

[Budd Cochran]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...

> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>
> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>
> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>
> --
> Wes Groleau
>

> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

I can't.

But when I tried to wash my electricity ... well, let's just say washing my
cat is less shocking.

Once again we have an over-educated "expert" suffering from delusions of
grandeur whist trying to conjur up essays on the causes of everything.

Budd

"X" is the unknown in an algebraic formula

"Spurt" the sound made by liquids exiting small orifices under pressure

"Expert" an unknown drip with hyprtension

[Julie Bove]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...

> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>
> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>
> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>
> --
> Wes Groleau
>

> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my body
produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my arm
the numbers will just start flipping crazily.

If I walk under a street light it will go off and on randomly.

And I am indeed brittle!

[%]

tie a copper wire around your arm that drags the ground and ground yourself

[hemyd]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...

> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>
> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>
> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>
> --
> Wes Groleau
>

> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure diabetes -
and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...

Henry.

[%]

if that was true everyone would already be using it

[outsider]

On 11/3/2011 10:24 PM, Budd Cochran wrote:
> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>
>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>
>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>
>> --
>> Wes Groleau
>>

>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal

>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>
> I can't.
>
> But when I tried to wash my electricity ... well, let's just say washing my
> cat is less shocking.
>
> Once again we have an over-educated "expert" suffering from delusions of
> grandeur whist trying to conjur up essays on the causes of everything.

He's not very well educated, Budd. Perhaps better than many, but then
again, not as well educated as many I've known.

[Chris Malcolm]

Thousands, possibly millions, already have.

--
Chris Malcolm

[Robert Miles]

It's normally used only for death row prisoners, except by
accident.

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/3/2011 11:32 PM, hemyd wrote:
> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>
>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>
>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>
>> --
>> Wes Groleau
>>

>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal

>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>
> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure diabetes -
> and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...
>
> Henry.
>
>

and your weight loss is instantaneous!

kate

[Ozlover]

Voltage has little to do with it. Current is, literally, the killer!
OTOH, you obviously need some voltage to create the 'required' current.

The current that kills can be as little as micro-amperes. That was
found, when patients with intravenous catheters were 'switched off' when
medical personel switched on a light while touching the patient.

But all that is irrelevant to the 'study' at hand, because that does
*not* involve ("Dirty") "Electricity", but *electromagnetic fields*.

FYI, this article debunks Dr. Magda Havas, the author of the 'study':

<http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/cfls-dirty-electricity-and-bad-science>

"Dirty Electricity
...
Much of this seems to stem from one Canadian researcher, Dr. Magda
Havas.
...
she appears to be a lone dissenting voice (some might call her a lone
crank)
...
For example, Havas is now talking to the media about "type 3 diabetes"
as if it is a proven and accepted entity."

And much, much more.

--
Frank Slootweg

[Gary Woods]

Ozlover <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>For example, Havas is now talking to the media about "type 3 diabetes"
>as if it is a proven and accepted entity."

But it IS.... otherwise known as "insulinitis!"

BTW- at the risk of gloating, still in the club at 5.6%
Now, 30 or 50 pounds needs to go away, hopefully a good chunk of it before
my next 3,000-mile checkup.


--
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

[Gary Woods]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

>You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>
>http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>
>I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.

I have a serious issue with anybody who takes an existing phenomenon and
renames it. Anybody else would refer to EMI or RF interference. A quick
scan showed that they were measuring the low-frequency fields through a
"ubiquitous" filter, which seems a bit creative to this old TV/Radio
geek...

[Ozlover]

Gary Woods <garyg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[...]

> BTW- at the risk of gloating, still in the club at 5.6%

5.6%!? I *used* to be that! Now, I'm 5.5% [1]! :-)

But seriously, good on you Gary! Keep up the good work!

> Now, 30 or 50 pounds needs to go away, hopefully a good chunk of it before
> my next 3,000-mile checkup.

Wow! Some target. Good luck.

[1] Well, actually 37. I 'hate' those new mmol/mol (instead of percent)
numbers, because hardly any other country is using them. Sigh!

--
Frank Slootweg

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my body
> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my arm
> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.

Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.

And the so-called study said NOTHING about bodies producing electricity.
It presented anecdotal evidence pretending to be empirical research and
claimed to prove that "dirty" electromagnetic fields raise blood sugar.

I wonder what "clean" electricity does?

--
Wes Groleau

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-04-2011 16:19, Gary Woods wrote:
> scan showed that they were measuring the low-frequency fields through a
> "ubiquitous" filter, which seems a bit creative to this old TV/Radio

Yeah, I meant to include that term for an extra laugh, but forgot.

[outsider]

On 11/4/2011 4:31 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my body
>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>> arm
>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>
> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.

Wes, you are so full of shit you makes the bull look good.

> And the so-called study said NOTHING about bodies producing electricity.
> It presented anecdotal evidence pretending to be empirical research and
> claimed to prove that "dirty" electromagnetic fields raise blood sugar.

I have not read the study, but it is not outside the realm of
possibility that electrical signals within the body are not
"conventional" in some diabetics, and that such electrical
activity could be used as a diagnostic tool.

> I wonder what "clean" electricity does?

I'm going to keep this simple, short, and limited to the most obvious
just for you Wes.

Brain waves, heart pulse, nerve action in general. Pacemakers and defib
machines rely on the electrical nature of the heart as an organ.

Electroshock therapy would have no effect were it not for the electrical
nature of the brain.

As I wrote just yesterday, you're not very well educated.

Try doing some research before you make responses as stupid as the
one I'm commenting about.

Sheesh!

[outsider]

On 11/4/2011 4:33 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 11-04-2011 16:19, Gary Woods wrote:
>> scan showed that they were measuring the low-frequency fields through a
>> "ubiquitous" filter, which seems a bit creative to this old TV/Radio
>
> Yeah, I meant to include that term for an extra laugh, but forgot.

Now you're "laughing boy" ??????

[Robert Miles]

On 11/4/2011 2:59 PM, Ozlover wrote:
> hemyd<myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...

[snip]

> For example, Havas is now talking to the media about "type 3 diabetes"
> as if it is a proven and accepted entity."
>
> And much, much more.

I've heard of type 3 diabetes before, but not as an accepted
term. Some people on diabetes forums use it to mean the absence
of diabetes, in those who participate in such forums anyway.
Some of the people who claim that Alzheimer's is a variety of
diabetes use that term for it.

In other words, it's, at best, confusing.

[Budd Cochran]

"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
news:9hhqt2...@mid.individual.net...

I'm talking about the self-proclaimed expert that wrote the supposed
article, which should have been obvious.

As for Wes, you have an opinion of him I don't agree with but then I also
consider you to more intelligent than some have given you credit for.

Let it go at that, ok?

Budd

[Budd Cochran]

"hemyd" <myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4eb378ff$0$13390$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...

Actually, you only need one microvolt at about 300 amps to do the job.

But 300 volts at 0.0001 amps will only give you a tingle.

BTDT as a Journeyman Millwright.

Budd

[hemyd]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...

> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

There is nothing like a good clean ZAP!!!!

Henry.

(I now expect a CEG (Clean Electricity Generator) advertised real soon...)

[hemyd]

"Budd Cochran" <mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j92c46$hsb$1...@news.mixmin.net...

It's a long time ago that I studied voltages etc, but how on earth would you
get 300 amps going through one microvolt?????

Henry.

[Julie Bove]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>> body
>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>> arm
>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>
> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.
>
> And the so-called study said NOTHING about bodies producing electricity.
> It presented anecdotal evidence pretending to be empirical research and
> claimed to prove that "dirty" electromagnetic fields raise blood sugar.
>
> I wonder what "clean" electricity does?

Then why is there static electricity?

[Robert Miles]

On 11/4/2011 11:45 PM, hemyd wrote:
> "Budd Cochran"<mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:j92c46$hsb$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>
>> "hemyd"<myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4eb378ff$0$13390$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Wes Groleau
>>>>

>>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal

>>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>>
>>> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure
>>> diabetes - and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...
>>>
>>> Henry.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, you only need one microvolt at about 300 amps to do the job.
>>
>> But 300 volts at 0.0001 amps will only give you a tingle.
>>
>> BTDT as a Journeyman Millwright.
>>
>> Budd
>>
>
> It's a long time ago that I studied voltages etc, but how on earth would you
> get 300 amps going through one microvolt?????
>
> Henry.

VERY good contacts - such as large wires inserted through your skin.
Also, with that low a voltage, you might need a lot of metal inside
your body.

Robert Miles

[hemyd]

"Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
news:j92gjh$13k$1...@dont-email.me...

Static electricity is what you get after a computer crash.

Henry

[Bjørn Steensrud]

hemyd wrote:

> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...

>> I wonder what "clean" electricity does?
>>
>> --
>> Wes Groleau
>>
>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>
> There is nothing like a good clean ZAP!!!!

I've found that FORMAT C works just as well, even if the ZAP is more
satisfying, like throwing the thing out of a high building.
How to speed up Windows: accelerate it at 9.82 m/s !

[Bjørn Steensrud]

Sorry - that mini-rant was brought on by trying to find the Select tool in
Access 2007 while helping a cat lady update her show software that I'm still
in charge of maintaining. Not good for blood pressure. But the, Henry, you
know about such frustrations.

[outsider]

On 11/4/2011 10:45 PM, hemyd wrote:
> "Budd Cochran"<mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:j92c46$hsb$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>
>> "hemyd"<myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4eb378ff$0$13390$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Wes Groleau
>>>>

>>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal

>>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>>
>>> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure
>>> diabetes - and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...
>>>
>>> Henry.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, you only need one microvolt at about 300 amps to do the job.
>>
>> But 300 volts at 0.0001 amps will only give you a tingle.
>>
>> BTDT as a Journeyman Millwright.
>>
>> Budd
>>
>
> It's a long time ago that I studied voltages etc, but how on earth would you
> get 300 amps going through one microvolt?????

Ohm's law is linear. E=IR With a low enough resistance is how.

[Chris Malcolm]

Even if you were made of pure solid copper and dipped each forearm
into a mercury bath for maximum contact area you'd be unlikely to pass
300A from a PD of 1uV.

(The resistivity of pure copper is around 17 nano-Ohms/m)

--
Chris Malcolm
"He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense." -- John McCarthy

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-03-2011 23:50, Wes Groleau wrote:
> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.

Electricians use a tool nicknamed "squealer" to detect the EMF from
a live outlet/fixture/whatever. My electrician friend says that you
actually get a stronger field from electronic devices than from mains
wiring, but you still have to be within two inches to detect it.
He also says he can detect it fifty feet (sixteen meters) from
a substation. However, after looking a bit more, this is apparently
not what "dirty electricity" means.

The article seemed to be complaining about low-frequency EMF, but
what the same Havas discussed in a video is noise/static on the
mains waveform. The video also showed very little effect on
(whatever a some unidentified digital tool was measuring)
by LEDs and incandescents. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS5ogZxoZ2Y>
They held the meter within three inches of the bulb. With another light
source, the meter went way up, and it wasn't on the table
near the light source. It was impossible to tell how close
it was--it may have been even closer, i.e., next to and above
the bulb or further away. In fact, I couldn't tell whether the
light source was a CFL, although it probably was. (Although,
I remember when on "news" source put explosives on the gas tank
of a Mustang in order to warn us about a hazard they were unable
to reproduce on camera!)

Switzerland is recommending that you stay thirty centimeters away
from any CFL. That's about twelve inches. Yet, they (with the
rest of Europe) are about to outlaw some sizes of incandescents.

CFLs DO produce high frequency static. So do "wall warts" --
those little plug-in DC switching power supplies. And so does
anything that arcs, like the motor (unless it is brushless) in
a refrigerator, air conditioner, vacuum cleaner, ceiling fan,
treadmills, etc. If it carries a warning not to use in the
presence of explosive vapors, it has arcing. If it does not
have that warning, that doesn't mean it's safe--it might just
mean the manufacturer has yet to be sued for causing an
explosion. :-)

So, now that I know "dirty electricity" means something that
actually exists and not what it appeared to mean at first glance,
I'm interested in the quality of the research Havas alleges.
As complicated as human biochemistry is, it's not an absurd
hypothesis that this could affect BG or asthma or MS.

But I still can't take the original cite seriously.

--
Wes Groleau

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-04-2011 23:52, Budd Cochran wrote:
> "outsider"<outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message

>> He's not very well educated, Budd. Perhaps better than many, but then
>> again, not as well educated as many I've known.
>

> As for Wes, you have an opinion of him I don't agree with but then I also
> consider you to more intelligent than some have given you credit for.

The reason I can't waste time reading stuff by "outsider" is not whether
or not he/she is intelligent, or educated, but his/her propensity to say
things as stupid¹ as and stupider¹ than the above. "Outsider" has
absolutely no idea whatsoever of my level of education. Anyone who
cares can make a guess from things I've posted in the past. Of course,
those who are offended at my choosing not to accept their B.S. will
probably assume I was lying.

--
Wes Groleau

“Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to
feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?”
— Charles Wallace
(in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_)

[outsider]

On 11/5/2011 12:23 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 11-04-2011 23:52, Budd Cochran wrote:
>> "outsider"<outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
>>> He's not very well educated, Budd. Perhaps better than many, but then
>>> again, not as well educated as many I've known.
>>
>> As for Wes, you have an opinion of him I don't agree with but then I also
>> consider you to more intelligent than some have given you credit for.
>
> The reason I can't waste time reading stuff by "outsider" is not whether
> or not he/she is intelligent, or educated, but his/her propensity to say
> things as stupid¹ as and stupider¹ than the above. "Outsider" has
> absolutely no idea whatsoever of my level of education. Anyone who
> cares can make a guess from things I've posted in the past. Of course,
> those who are offended at my choosing not to accept their B.S. will
> probably assume I was lying.

The significant omission in your petty little diatribe completely
ignores the simple fact that achieving a diploma or receiving a
college/university degree is no assurance of being well educated.

"Education" begins the day parents take a child home (assuming
a hospital birth.) Your parents obviously failed you, and matters
only got worse from that point on. Simple observation over a period
of time is sufficient to determine that you are not well educated,
regardless of whatever your achievement(s) in the formal training
arena. It doesn't require a university degree to know that all
animal lifeforms depend on self-generated electricity to function.
All that requires is an interest in nature.

"Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
neither.

You have dubbed yourself the Prince of Bullshit, taking a back seat
only to Malcolm. Funny, Malcolm has to work at what comes naturally
to you.

I don't care whether you read my offerings or not. Great food
like that doesn't belong in your peasant stomach anyway.

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/5/2011 1:42 PM, outsider doth proclaim:

> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
> neither.

This most assuredly means that we must hang on his every word, and that
his vile posts are to be credible and helpful to the function of this
newsgroup.

Too bad Outsider never was taught how to 'play nice' in his mystical
little world.

(ya, i'm ticked)

kate

[hemyd]

"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message

news:9hkjka...@mid.individual.net...

Although until I've had my first coffee this morning my poor old brain isn't
quite up to working it out in the precision you expect, wouldn't the
resistance be some insane fraction of an Ohm - like a "MicroOhm?????? The
Ohm's law is indeed practical. I am just wondering how such a low resistance
could be achieved. Also - how would you measure it????

Henry.

[outsider]

The question asked was "how". The how asked a question I took to be a
general question, removed from using a human body and practical
considerations.

The simple fact is that ohms law is linear from extreme to extreme.
Practicalities didn't seem to me to be part of the question asked,
and now answered.

Resistance measurement always uses the voltage and current ratio
to resolve the question. In order to get 300 amps using a 1
microvolt source probably requires using a superconductor. The
other problem, if we're going to discuss this involving
practicalities, is that the internal resistance of the source
must also be extremely low. That's, by far, the more difficult
issue to solve.

Internal resistance of a source is what limits the current
available from any source. Think of a 12 volt car battery, for
example. They're sold in the US as XXX amps at 0 degrees F.
That limit on the amps is a consequence of internal resistance
of the battery.

[Ian Field]

"%" <per...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i7ydnXQKDLDz6C7T...@giganews.com...

> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>>
>>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>>
>>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wes Groleau
>>>

>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>

>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>> body produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on
>> my arm the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>>

>> If I walk under a street light it will go off and on randomly.
>>
>> And I am indeed brittle!
>
>
> tie a copper wire around your arm that drags the ground and ground
> yourself


Antistatic work shoes are a little more practical, they have a defined
leakage resistance to dissipate static but not hard earthing as in trailing
a copper wire - that would put you at risk of electrocution if you touched
the live case of a faulty appliance.

Possibly also a slight increase in the chances of attracting lightening too!

[Ian Field]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>> body
>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>> arm
>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>
> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.

Actually it does, all nerve impulses are electrical as are the signals in
the brain.

[Ian Field]

"Chris Malcolm" <c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:9hi3a0...@mid.individual.net...
>% <per...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> hemyd wrote:
>>> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

>>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>
>>>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Wes Groleau
>>>>
>>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
>>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>>

>>> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure
>>> diabetes - and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old
>>> too...
>>> Henry.
>

>> if that was true everyone would already be using it
>
> Thousands, possibly millions, already have.


.........along with the US justice department.

[Ian Field]

"Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:9hiuhn...@mid.individual.net...

> hemyd <myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>> > You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>> >
>> > http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>> >
>> > I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Wes Groleau
>> >
>> > First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
>> > http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>
>> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure
>> diabetes -
>> and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...
>

> Voltage has little to do with it. Current is, literally, the killer!
> OTOH, you obviously need some voltage to create the 'required' current.

You still have to have sufficient voltage to overcome the body's
resistance - an alkaline D cell can supply 1A for long enough but it doesn't
have enough voltage to push that current through the resistance.

[Ian Field]

"hemyd" <myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message

news:4eb5a648$0$22472$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...

IIRC at those sort of values; many in the scientific community would switch
to quoting in conductance with the units in mho's or Siemens.

[Robert Miles]

On 11/5/2011 1:12 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 11-03-2011 23:50, Wes Groleau wrote:
>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!

[snip]

> CFLs DO produce high frequency static. So do "wall warts" --
> those little plug-in DC switching power supplies. And so does
> anything that arcs, like the motor (unless it is brushless) in
> a refrigerator, air conditioner, vacuum cleaner, ceiling fan,
> treadmills, etc. If it carries a warning not to use in the
> presence of explosive vapors, it has arcing. If it does not
> have that warning, that doesn't mean it's safe--it might just
> mean the manufacturer has yet to be sued for causing an
> explosion. :-)

Refrigerators and air conditioners generally have the main
motors sealed within steel cases to keep the refrigerant gas
in. Therefore, any arcing in those motors is unlikely to
affect any explosive gases outside. If they still have such
a label, it is probably due to some source of arcing other
than the main motor.

Robert Miles

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-05-2011 19:01, Ian Field wrote:
> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

>> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
>> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.
>
> Actually it does, all nerve impulses are electrical as are the signals in
> the brain.

Nerves build up a potential difference from the inside to the outside.
When the neuron at the end "fires" it causes that tension to discharge,
causing a region of neutral charge. This discharged region travels down
the nerve fiber at about a hundred meters per second.

So, in a sense, they are electrical but in a sense they are chemical.

I certainly _could_ argue that this is "producing electricity"

It would be even easier to argue that creating the potential difference
is similar to what a battery does.

But it is also accurate to say that neither is similar to what happens
at nearly the speed of light in and around a wire or CFL in a house.

And one could argue that moving ions around within the body and having a
net external effect of zero isn't really "producing"

Finally, much of the activity within the brain is chemical, or at least
that's what I was told. One neuron sending a few molecules to another.

--
Wes Groleau

[Bob]

On 11/3/2011 9:47 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...

>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>

>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>
>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>

>> --
>> Wes Groleau
>>
>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal
>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

>
> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my body
> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my arm
> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>

> If I walk under a street light it will go off and on randomly.
>

Nothing to worry about as long as it doesn't go on and off - leaving
street lights in the off position may be awkward, dangerous even, for
others after you have passed them.

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-05-2011 18:57, Ian Field wrote:
> "%"<per...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> tie a copper wire around your arm that drags the ground and ground
>> yourself
>
> Antistatic work shoes are a little more practical, they have a defined
> leakage resistance to dissipate static but not hard earthing as in trailing
> a copper wire - that would put you at risk of electrocution if you touched
> the live case of a faulty appliance.

I was trying to fix a problem in someone's TV, sitting on the concrete
floor of their garage. I kept wondering why my butt itched so bad.
After a little while, I thought it's probably a low voltage leakage to
the chassis and started hunting for that. Turned out that some prior
technician (or the manufacturer) had wired the mains cord backward
and my pants were protecting me from getting the entire experience
of 120 VAC.

--
Wes Groleau

[Robert Miles]

Silver has a lower resistance than copper.

Also, superconductors are available, which appear to have no resistance
at all if you keep them cold enough (such as liquid helium temperatures)
and limit the current in them enough.

Touching liquid helium, though, is likely to leave that part of your
body frozen so solid it will shatter.

Measuring such low resistances requires having ways to measure large
currents and very low voltages, then using Ohm's law. Measuring such
low voltages could easily require metal shielding around the measurement
area.

Robert Miles

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-05-2011 21:12, Robert Miles wrote:
> Silver has a lower resistance than copper.
> Also, superconductors are available, which appear to have no resistance
> at all if you keep them cold enough (such as liquid helium temperatures)
> and limit the current in them enough.

Neither of these has much bearing on how a microvolt
could push a hundred Amps through a human body.

--
Wes Groleau

[outsider]

Fictional account.

[Canth]

For a very wide definition of electrical. Nerve & muscle impulses are
the result of a wave of depolarisation traveling across the surface of
the cell. No electrons are involved.

There is a potential difference across a cell membrane caused by
concentration differences of sodium and potassium ions, which is
actively maintained by chemical pumps in the membrane. When
conditions are right, the membrane becomes porous and the ions rush
through causing the potential difference to collapse. This propagates
along the cell membrane. That is the signal which causes
electromagnetic eddys to occur.

In the case of nerves, when the signal reaches the end of the nerve
axon, it stimulates the release of chemicals to cross the gap to the
next cell. These are the substances referred to as neurotransmitters
eg serotonin, acetylcholine. When the chemicals reach the membrane of
the next cell, they attach to cell receptors which either increase the
permeability (stimulus) or decrease the permeability (inhibitor).
Other substances can affect the responsiveness of the cell receptors.
When the permeability reaches a critical level, it causes the cell
membrane at that point to depolarise and create a signal.

Nerves which act as detectors eg rods and cones in the eye, have a
special organelle which when stimulated appropriately, causes
depolarisation of the cell membrane.

With muscles, the depolarisation causes the actomyosin fibres to
contract, shortening the length of the cell.

Nowhere in all of this is a single electron moving under the effect of
a potential difference, as happens in electrical circuitry.

AS! ds++:+++ a++ c+++ p++ t+ f-- S+ p+ e++ h++ r++ n++ i+ P+ m++ M
I've been ignored by better people than you.

[ra...@val.com]

On Nov 5, 10:26 pm, Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:01:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >"Wes Groleau" <Groleau+n...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

Canth,

Thanks for your erudite post and I mostly agree.

I would just like to add that there are low frequency (2 -40 Hertz)
low level AC signals (mili/micro volts level) generated in the body
via the chemical pathways you discussed. These signals can be measured
via very high impedance amplifiers and behave (when measured) like any
other electrical signals generated by non-biological means (AC
generators). That's what EEG machines do.

BTW- I always read and enjoy you posts and encourage you to contribute
when ever the urge strikes.

Regards
Randy

[outsider]

On 11/5/2011 9:26 PM, Canth wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:01:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
> <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>>>> body
>>>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>>>> arm
>>>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>>>
>>> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
>>> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.
>>
>> Actually it does, all nerve impulses are electrical as are the signals in
>> the brain.
>>

> For a very wide definition of electrical. Nerve& muscle impulses are

> the result of a wave of depolarisation traveling across the surface of
> the cell. No electrons are involved.

Excuse me???????

Where do you get this crap?

> There is a potential difference across a cell membrane caused by
> concentration differences of sodium and potassium ions, which is
> actively maintained by chemical pumps in the membrane. When
> conditions are right, the membrane becomes porous and the ions rush
> through causing the potential difference to collapse. This propagates
> along the cell membrane. That is the signal which causes
> electromagnetic eddys to occur.

"An ion is an atom or molecule in which the total number of
electrons is not equal to the total number of protons, giving
it a net positive or negative electrical charge."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion

> In the case of nerves, when the signal reaches the end of the nerve
> axon, it stimulates the release of chemicals to cross the gap to the
> next cell. These are the substances referred to as neurotransmitters
> eg serotonin, acetylcholine. When the chemicals reach the membrane of
> the next cell, they attach to cell receptors which either increase the
> permeability (stimulus) or decrease the permeability (inhibitor).
> Other substances can affect the responsiveness of the cell receptors.
> When the permeability reaches a critical level, it causes the cell
> membrane at that point to depolarise and create a signal.

"If, for example, a cell has a resting potential of -70mV, once
the membrane potential changes to -50mV, then the cell has been
depolarized. Depolarization is often caused by influx of cations,
e.g. Na+ through Na+ channels, or Ca2+ through Ca2+ channels. On
the other hand, efflux of K+ through K+ channels inhibits
depolarization, as does influx of Cl– (an anion) through Cl–
channels. If a cell has K+ or Cl– currents at rest, then
inhibition of those currents will also result in a depolarization.

"Because depolarization is a change in membrane voltage,
electrophysiologists measure it using current clamp techniques.
In voltage clamp, the membrane currents giving rise to
depolarization are either an increase in inward current, or
a decrease in outward current."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depolarization

>
> Nerves which act as detectors eg rods and cones in the eye, have a
> special organelle which when stimulated appropriately, causes
> depolarisation of the cell membrane.

> With muscles, the depolarisation causes the actomyosin fibres to
> contract, shortening the length of the cell.

> Nowhere in all of this is a single electron moving under the effect of
> a potential difference, as happens in electrical circuitry.

No where in nature does a single electron move under the effect of a
potential difference. It is lots of them, in electron theory, that
move from one atom or molecule to another precisely as it happens
in human cells.

In semiconductors it isn't "electrons" that are said to be moving,
it is "holes". But the nomenclature doesn't obscure the fact that
an electrical current is flowing through a transistor nor does
your pay on words obscure the same essential facts.

[Budd Cochran]

"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message

news:9hlhts...@mid.individual.net...

> On 11/5/2011 12:23 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>
> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
> neither.
>

> I don't care whether you read my offerings or not. Great food
> like that doesn't belong in your peasant stomach anyway.

Ok, I know I have a ego:

1) I'm Scot-Irish / English / Cherokee

2) I'm a Polio Survivor

3) I have an I.Q. of 163

4) I've never failed to accomplish anything I've decided to do.

But, in all honesty, Outsider, if I was ever to make claims like you have I
would hope that God would shut my mouth and break my fingers.

These two quotes above are as pompous as any I've ever read and are totally
unwarranted ... and that includes politicians.

You are about to put yourself in the same mold as the infamous "doctor" ...
is that what you want to be known as?

Budd

[Budd Cochran]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

news:j94mhk$m35$1...@dont-email.me...

> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349

Oh, God ... you reminded me of the first time I touched, by accident, the
ground strap on a tube chassis color TV (circa 1965).


Picked myself up in the next room.

Budd

[Budd Cochran]

"Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
news:j92gjh$13k$1...@dont-email.me...

>
> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>>> body
>>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>>> arm
>>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>>
>> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
>> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.
>>

>> And the so-called study said NOTHING about bodies producing electricity.
>> It presented anecdotal evidence pretending to be empirical research and
>> claimed to prove that "dirty" electromagnetic fields raise blood sugar.
>>
>> I wonder what "clean" electricity does?
>
> Then why is there static electricity?
>

It just wants to be on the government dole.

Budd

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/5/2011 7:05 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 11-05-2011 18:57, Ian Field wrote:
>> "%"<per...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> tie a copper wire around your arm that drags the ground and ground
>>> yourself
>>
>> Antistatic work shoes are a little more practical, they have a defined
>> leakage resistance to dissipate static but not hard earthing as in
>> trailing
>> a copper wire - that would put you at risk of electrocution if you
>> touched
>> the live case of a faulty appliance.
>
> I was trying to fix a problem in someone's TV, sitting on the concrete
> floor of their garage. I kept wondering why my butt itched so bad.
> After a little while, I thought it's probably a low voltage leakage to
> the chassis and started hunting for that. Turned out that some prior
> technician (or the manufacturer) had wired the mains cord backward
> and my pants were protecting me from getting the entire experience
> of 120 VAC.
>

so that cloth covered wiring actually did have sufficient insulating
qualities? (speaking in 1940's and prior terms)

kate

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/5/2011 11:05 PM, Budd Cochran wrote:
> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
> news:j94mhk$m35$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 11-05-2011 18:57, Ian Field wrote:
>>> "%"<per...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> tie a copper wire around your arm that drags the ground and ground
>>>> yourself
>>>
>>> Antistatic work shoes are a little more practical, they have a defined
>>> leakage resistance to dissipate static but not hard earthing as in
>>> trailing
>>> a copper wire - that would put you at risk of electrocution if you
>>> touched
>>> the live case of a faulty appliance.
>>
>> I was trying to fix a problem in someone's TV, sitting on the concrete
>> floor of their garage. I kept wondering why my butt itched so bad.
>> After a little while, I thought it's probably a low voltage leakage to the
>> chassis and started hunting for that. Turned out that some prior
>> technician (or the manufacturer) had wired the mains cord backward
>> and my pants were protecting me from getting the entire experience
>> of 120 VAC.
>>
>> --
>> Wes Groleau
>>

>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal

>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>
> Oh, God ... you reminded me of the first time I touched, by accident, the
> ground strap on a tube chassis color TV (circa 1965).
>
>
> Picked myself up in the next room.
>
> Budd
>
>

OMG, Budd, i'm laughing so hard

but i DO understand your 'position' from a 'first hand experience'

experience...... the best teacher :D

kate

[Tiger Lily]

chemical or hormonal or..... and yes, these trigger electrical
responses, but i've never been able to hold a CFL bulb and have it light
up in my hands............. unlike that potato experiment in grade 6 science

fictional??? your story or Wes'?

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/5/2011 9:51 PM, ra...@val.com wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:26 pm, Canth<kwar6...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:01:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Wes Groleau"<Groleau+n...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>>> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>>>>> body
>>>>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>>>>> arm
>>>>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>>
>>>> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
>>>> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.
>>
>>> Actually it does, all nerve impulses are electrical as are the signals in
>>> the brain.
>>

>> For a very wide definition of electrical. Nerve& muscle impulses are

thank you Randy, i agree that Canth's post is very useful and
informative, and i was wondering about the Electro Encephalograms (sp?)
EEG is easier

my next query is on the MRI imaging that is done to determine which
regions of the brain are stimulated by X versus Y in person A versus
person B........... are those green/yellow/orange/red/black colours in
the brain the result of electrical or magnetical resonance?

kate

[Tiger Lily]

Budd, you have CLASS and people skills

something that evades outsider

(competitive, beat ya by 1 pt on the IQ LOL)
(TEASING, honest but TEASING, 1 pt can mean yesterday to tomorrow and
how much coffee you had before the test)

:D

kate (who bows to many other very knowledgeable and intelligent folks
she has met here over the years)

[hemyd]

"Bjørn Steensrud" <bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:11afo8-...@astilbe.skogkatt.homelinux.org...

> Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
>
>> hemyd wrote:
>>

>>> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>>> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...
>>

>>>> I wonder what "clean" electricity does?
>>>>

>>>> --
>>>> Wes Groleau
>>>>

>>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal
>>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>>

>>> There is nothing like a good clean ZAP!!!!
>>
>> I've found that FORMAT C works just as well, even if the ZAP is more
>> satisfying, like throwing the thing out of a high building.
>> How to speed up Windows: accelerate it at 9.82 m/s !
>>
>>> Henry.
>>>
>>> (I now expect a CEG (Clean Electricity Generator) advertised real
>>> soon...)
>
> Sorry - that mini-rant was brought on by trying to find the Select tool in
> Access 2007 while helping a cat lady update her show software that I'm
> still
> in charge of maintaining. Not good for blood pressure. But the, Henry, you
> know about such frustrations.

In the last ten days I've been imaging twenty teachers' Windows 7 laptops
and am now in the last stages of data transfer and distribution..... Yes - I
know about frustration! If only our network ran on DOS 3.1 - then I would
have no problems.....

(OK, OK, someone can explain why a network cannot or can run on DOS 3.1)

[Chris Malcolm]

outsider <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote:

> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
> neither.

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a man who has to tell us
that he's "intelligent" and "educated" is obviously not.

--
Chris Malcolm

[Canth]

From what I have read, MRI works by playing around with the spin
properties of the hydrogen nuclei in the water in the target tissue.
It does not depend at all on anything generated within the tissue,
supplying all the signals and energies itself. It operates on nuclear
properties, not electrical properties. There are quite a number of
different signals which can be generated by flipping the spin property
of the hydrogen nuclei. These signals can be further refined to give
complex 3D pictures of the tissues.

Each type of tissue can be identified by the precise pattern of
signals it gives out. The process is sufficiently precise as to be
able to distinguish active neural tissue from inactive. I don't think
it is precise enough to operate at the individual neuron level.

[Chris Malcolm]

In a sense, but note that the propagated polarisation collapse which
is how these signals (signals, not currents, as Canth points out) are
transmitted is still far too tiny and local an effect to register on
the highest impedance skin surface pickups of EEG, ECG, etc.. What
those pick up are the effective EMR broadcasts of oscillating nerve
nets. The brain (and other large nets such as solar plexus and
cardiac) use these oscillating net broadcasts for synchronisation
purposes.

Which is one of the ways in which external EMR might affect human
physiology, by affecting the extent and timing of such broadcast
entrainment to nets on the verge of oscillation. But since the body
already uses a lot of these oscillatory nets, as EEGs and ECGs
demonstrate, these systems must already be able to cope with
interference from one another so they will already have some
resistance to external interference. Which is why a surgically
implanted heart pacemaker is a lot more likely to be affected by
external interference than a heart :-)

--
Chris Malcolm

[Chris Malcolm]

outsider <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote:
> On 11/5/2011 9:26 PM, Canth wrote:
>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:01:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
>> <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>>> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 11-04-2011 00:47, Julie Bove wrote:

>>>>> Very interesting! You may be onto something. I've been told that my
>>>>> body
>>>>> produces too much electricity. I can't use digital watches. When on my
>>>>> arm
>>>>> the numbers will just start flipping crazily.
>>>>
>>>> Your body does not produce electricity, clean or dirty.
>>>> Not even if you are related to Uncle Fester.
>>>
>>> Actually it does, all nerve impulses are electrical as are the signals in
>>> the brain.
>>>
>> For a very wide definition of electrical. Nerve& muscle impulses are
>> the result of a wave of depolarisation traveling across the surface of
>> the cell. No electrons are involved.

> Excuse me???????

> Where do you get this crap?

A good education which you clearly lack.

>> There is a potential difference across a cell membrane caused by
>> concentration differences of sodium and potassium ions, which is
>> actively maintained by chemical pumps in the membrane. When
>> conditions are right, the membrane becomes porous and the ions rush
>> through causing the potential difference to collapse. This propagates
>> along the cell membrane. That is the signal which causes
>> electromagnetic eddys to occur.

> "An ion is an atom or molecule in which the total number of
> electrons is not equal to the total number of protons, giving
> it a net positive or negative electrical charge."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion

The important difference is whether electrons or molecules are
moving. That is in more than one important sense a very large
difference :-)

>> In the case of nerves, when the signal reaches the end of the nerve
>> axon, it stimulates the release of chemicals to cross the gap to the
>> next cell. These are the substances referred to as neurotransmitters
>> eg serotonin, acetylcholine. When the chemicals reach the membrane of
>> the next cell, they attach to cell receptors which either increase the
>> permeability (stimulus) or decrease the permeability (inhibitor).
>> Other substances can affect the responsiveness of the cell receptors.
>> When the permeability reaches a critical level, it causes the cell
>> membrane at that point to depolarise and create a signal.

> "If, for example, a cell has a resting potential of -70mV, once
> the membrane potential changes to -50mV, then the cell has been
> depolarized. Depolarization is often caused by influx of cations,
> e.g. Na+ through Na+ channels, or Ca2+ through Ca2+ channels. On
> the other hand, efflux of K+ through K+ channels inhibits
> depolarization, as does influx of Cl– (an anion) through Cl–
> channels. If a cell has K+ or Cl– currents at rest, then
> inhibition of those currents will also result in a depolarization.

> "Because depolarization is a change in membrane voltage,
> electrophysiologists measure it using current clamp techniques.
> In voltage clamp, the membrane currents giving rise to
> depolarization are either an increase in inward current, or
> a decrease in outward current."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depolarization

The current is generated in the sensor as part of the measurement
process. What is being measured is a chemically propagated electrical
signal. It is sufficiently like an electrical current that it is often
spoken of as one, especially when it forms part of an electrical
circuit as it does when it is measured by means of an electrical
sensor such as high impedance amplifier, but it is arguable that it is
not, strictly speaking, an electrical current. What I mean by arguable
is that experts argue about it. There is more than one good well
supported opinion.

>> Nerves which act as detectors eg rods and cones in the eye, have a
>> special organelle which when stimulated appropriately, causes
>> depolarisation of the cell membrane.

>> With muscles, the depolarisation causes the actomyosin fibres to
>> contract, shortening the length of the cell.

>> Nowhere in all of this is a single electron moving under the effect of
>> a potential difference, as happens in electrical circuitry.

> No where in nature does a single electron move under the effect of a
> potential difference. It is lots of them, in electron theory, that
> move from one atom or molecule to another precisely as it happens
> in human cells.

You seem to have forgotten that lots of electrons consist of a large
number of individual electrons. What moves the lot is moving the lot
by moving each one individually. As happens in conductive metals, in
ionised gases, or in the vacuum of an electronic valce or tube. A
potential difference moves a single electron. When there are lots we
call it a current. When there's only a few, or one, and it matters, we
can it an event or a signal. Note that the single cell sensor rods in
the human retina respond to single photons. But the nerve cells ignore
single cell responses so that detection doesn't propagate
upwards. Digital camera sensors also respond to single photons, but
again are ignored in favour of larger average responses in the
camera. But the effects can be seen as photon noise.

You're right that in the chemically propagated membrane potential
collapse there are lots of charged molecules moving in the same
direction. But it's certainly not "crap" to argue that the movement of
charged molecules is not in itself the passage of an electrical
current, although it can cause one.

> In semiconductors it isn't "electrons" that are said to be moving,
> it is "holes". But the nomenclature doesn't obscure the fact that
> an electrical current is flowing through a transistor nor does
> your pay on words obscure the same essential facts.

Like many plays on words it's an arguable point of theory which expert
theoreticians argue about. You taking one side doesn't make the other
side crap.

You should stop trying to pontificate on stuff you don't fully
understand. Your cited pages actually support what you think is
Canth's "crap" if you read them more carefully. Drink some coffee and
read them again, slowly this time, with open-minded curiosity rather
than a determined agenda.

--
Chris Malcolm

[Chris Malcolm]

outsider <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote:

> On 11/5/2011 3:10 PM, hemyd wrote:
>> "outsider"<outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message

>> news:9hkjka...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 11/4/2011 10:45 PM, hemyd wrote:
>>>> "Budd Cochran"<mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:j92c46$hsb$1...@news.mixmin.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "hemyd"<myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4eb378ff$0$13390$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...

>>>>>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>> You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
>>>>>>> I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Wes Groleau
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal
>>>>>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure
>>>>>> diabetes - and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Henry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, you only need one microvolt at about 300 amps to do the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> But 300 volts at 0.0001 amps will only give you a tingle.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTDT as a Journeyman Millwright.
>>>>>
>>>>> Budd
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a long time ago that I studied voltages etc, but how on earth would
>>>> you
>>>> get 300 amps going through one microvolt?????
>>>
>>> Ohm's law is linear. E=IR With a low enough resistance is how.
>>
>> Although until I've had my first coffee this morning my poor old brain isn't
>> quite up to working it out in the precision you expect, wouldn't the
>> resistance be some insane fraction of an Ohm - like a "MicroOhm?????? The
>> Ohm's law is indeed practical. I am just wondering how such a low resistance
>> could be achieved. Also - how would you measure it????

> The question asked was "how". The how asked a question I took to be a
> general question, removed from using a human body and practical
> considerations.

> The simple fact is that ohms law is linear from extreme to extreme.
> Practicalities didn't seem to me to be part of the question asked,
> and now answered.

> Resistance measurement always uses the voltage and current ratio
> to resolve the question. In order to get 300 amps using a 1
> microvolt source probably requires using a superconductor.

Why don't you do the arithmetic? You don't need a superconductor. You
could do it at room temperature with a large lump of copper. Or a
smaller but more expensive lump of a better conductor :-)

> other problem, if we're going to discuss this involving
> practicalities, is that the internal resistance of the source
> must also be extremely low. That's, by far, the more difficult
> issue to solve.

> Internal resistance of a source is what limits the current
> available from any source. Think of a 12 volt car battery, for
> example. They're sold in the US as XXX amps at 0 degrees F.
> That limit on the amps is a consequence of internal resistance
> of the battery.

So it would be difficult to solve using a battery. But that's not the
only source of potential differences. What's the internal resistance
of a Leyden jar?

--
Chris Malcolm

[Chris Malcolm]

The motor generates considerable voltage spikes, especially when
stopping and starting, and these are propagated outside the motor
casing by means of the wires which feed it electricity. Which is why
by law those wires must be fitted with EMR dampers. Which sometimes
stop working before the motor does. And in any case aren't totally
effective even when working properly.

--
Chris Malcolm

[Gary Woods]

"Budd Cochran" <mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>1) I'm Scot-Irish / English / Cherokee
>
>2) I'm a Polio Survivor
>
>3) I have an I.Q. of 163

Well, I'm Scots-Irish and a Polio survivor.
Dunno about the I.Q., though many regard me as a Smart Feller.
And I put the Outside entity in the sin bin long ago, having concluded that
it, and a very few others, had nothing I cared to read.

(Does a kilowatt on 80 meters count as dirty electricity?)


--
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

[outsider]

On 11/5/2011 11:02 PM, Budd Cochran wrote:

> "outsider"<outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
> news:9hlhts...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 11/5/2011 12:23 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>
>> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
>> neither.
>>
>> I don't care whether you read my offerings or not. Great food
>> like that doesn't belong in your peasant stomach anyway.
>
> Ok, I know I have a ego:
>
> 1) I'm Scot-Irish / English / Cherokee
>
> 2) I'm a Polio Survivor
>
> 3) I have an I.Q. of 163
>
> 4) I've never failed to accomplish anything I've decided to do.

You are poor on purpose?

> But, in all honesty, Outsider, if I was ever to make claims like you have I
> would hope that God would shut my mouth and break my fingers.
>
> These two quotes above are as pompous as any I've ever read and are totally
> unwarranted ... and that includes politicians.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

> You are about to put yourself in the same mold as the infamous "doctor" ...
> is that what you want to be known as?

I would hope that anyone who cannot discern that difference puts me
in their killfile as I prefer to have nothing to do with them. You,
and others, accept the self-same treatment dispensed by Wes (to whom
the text above was devoted) without protest. Look at your basis for
criticism.

[Bob]

On 11/5/2011 12:42 PM, outsider wrote:
> On 11/5/2011 12:23 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:

>> On 11-04-2011 23:52, Budd Cochran wrote:
>>> "outsider"<outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message

>>>> He's not very well educated, Budd. Perhaps better than many, but then
>>>> again, not as well educated as many I've known.
>>>
>>> As for Wes, you have an opinion of him I don't agree with but then I
>>> also
>>> consider you to more intelligent than some have given you credit for.
>>
>> The reason I can't waste time reading stuff by "outsider" is not whether
>> or not he/she is intelligent, or educated, but his/her propensity to say
>> things as stupid¹ as and stupider¹ than the above. "Outsider" has
>> absolutely no idea whatsoever of my level of education. Anyone who
>> cares can make a guess from things I've posted in the past. Of course,
>> those who are offended at my choosing not to accept their B.S. will
>> probably assume I was lying.
>
> The significant omission in your petty little diatribe completely
> ignores the simple fact that achieving a diploma or receiving a
> college/university degree is no assurance of being well educated.
>
> "Education" begins the day parents take a child home (assuming
> a hospital birth.) Your parents obviously failed you, and matters
> only got worse from that point on. Simple observation over a period
> of time is sufficient to determine that you are not well educated,
> regardless of whatever your achievement(s) in the formal training
> arena. It doesn't require a university degree to know that all
> animal lifeforms depend on self-generated electricity to function.
> All that requires is an interest in nature.

>
> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
> neither.
>

Thanks for telling us, because there's no way to deduct that from your
posts.

> You have dubbed yourself the Prince of Bullshit, taking a back seat
> only to Malcolm. Funny, Malcolm has to work at what comes naturally
> to you.

[Bob]

On 11/5/2011 1:17 PM, Tiger Lily wrote:
> On 11/5/2011 1:42 PM, outsider doth proclaim:

>
>> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
>> neither.
>

> This most assuredly means that we must hang on his every word, and that
> his vile posts are to be credible and helpful to the function of this
> newsgroup.
>
> Too bad Outsider never was taught how to 'play nice' in his mystical
> little world.
>

You shouldn't blame his behavior on his teachers - it's a consequence of
eating too much yellow snow when he was a kid.

[outsider]

On 11/6/2011 6:04 AM, Gary Woods wrote:

> And I put the Outside entity in the sin bin long ago, having concluded that
> it, and a very few others, had nothing I cared to read.

*

[Bob]

+1
BUT - given you have an IQ of 163 - what took you so long to see little
Yapper for what he is?

[Bob]

It's not about what you want, Bubba. It's about pointing out what you
are, so newbies won't have to waste too much time on your hateful drivel.

[Ian Field]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

news:j94mhk$m35$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 11-05-2011 18:57, Ian Field wrote:
>> "%"<per...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> tie a copper wire around your arm that drags the ground and ground
>>> yourself
>>
>> Antistatic work shoes are a little more practical, they have a defined
>> leakage resistance to dissipate static but not hard earthing as in
>> trailing
>> a copper wire - that would put you at risk of electrocution if you
>> touched
>> the live case of a faulty appliance.
>
> I was trying to fix a problem in someone's TV, sitting on the concrete
> floor of their garage. I kept wondering why my butt itched so bad.
> After a little while, I thought it's probably a low voltage leakage to the
> chassis and started hunting for that. Turned out that some prior
> technician (or the manufacturer) had wired the mains cord backward
> and my pants were protecting me from getting the entire experience
> of 120 VAC.

We used to have TVs with one of the mains wires direct to chassis in the UK
too, the 240VAC was a little bit more noticeable!

[kurtwh...@yahoo.com]

On Nov 6, 5:33 am, Bob <anothascreen...@aol.com> wrote:

> It's not about what you want, Bubba. It's about pointing out what you
> are, so newbies won't have to waste too much time on your hateful drivel.

If you were really worried about that then YOU would stop your hateful
and obsessive drivel. But you're not. Besides, how many "newbies" do
you think ever post here anymore, Bob? Usenet is becoming as obsolete
as common sense is to you. There are rarely any newbies here, only
socks who have changed their name to whip up support and/or insult
others.

Kurt

[Tiger Lily]

ta...... i had wandered off on a wild goose chase, things brings things
back to sensible

kate

[Damian]

And you Kurt the troll, have repeatedly stated that you post your
attacks against people here for the purpose of informing newbies about
the people you do not like and want to silence. Calling it,
protecting the newbies from the usual suspects.

Damian

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/6/2011 2:20 AM, hemyd wrote:
> "Bjørn Steensrud"<bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message
> news:11afo8-...@astilbe.skogkatt.homelinux.org...
>> Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
>>
>>> hemyd wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Wes Groleau"<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:j91p4m$ak6$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>>> I wonder what "clean" electricity does?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Wes Groleau
>>>>>

>>>>> First Language Acquisition observed up-close& personal

>>>>> http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing like a good clean ZAP!!!!
>>>
>>> I've found that FORMAT C works just as well, even if the ZAP is more
>>> satisfying, like throwing the thing out of a high building.
>>> How to speed up Windows: accelerate it at 9.82 m/s !
>>>
>>>> Henry.
>>>>
>>>> (I now expect a CEG (Clean Electricity Generator) advertised real
>>>> soon...)
>>
>> Sorry - that mini-rant was brought on by trying to find the Select tool in
>> Access 2007 while helping a cat lady update her show software that I'm
>> still
>> in charge of maintaining. Not good for blood pressure. But the, Henry, you
>> know about such frustrations.
>
> In the last ten days I've been imaging twenty teachers' Windows 7 laptops
> and am now in the last stages of data transfer and distribution..... Yes - I
> know about frustration! If only our network ran on DOS 3.1 - then I would
> have no problems.....
>
> (OK, OK, someone can explain why a network cannot or can run on DOS 3.1)
>
>

ohhhhhh i don't envy you that chore....... boring, time consuming and
just a royal PITA :(

ASUS's new eeePC has a solid state hard drive in it! :D

kate

[Bjørn Steensrud]

hemyd wrote:

> In the last ten days I've been imaging twenty teachers' Windows 7 laptops
> and am now in the last stages of data transfer and distribution..... Yes -
> I know about frustration! If only our network ran on DOS 3.1 - then I
> would have no problems.....

Well - a teacher who had been maintaining a school network took over the
newly installed Linux network, after a one-week course.
"Wow - I can go back to being a teacher again! 5% of my time is now spent on
the network, instead of 50% earlier ..."

> (OK, OK, someone can explain why a network cannot or can run on DOS 3.1)

Trumpet Winsock? It seems to be quite a hassle ...

[Bjørn Steensrud]

Gary Woods wrote:

> "Budd Cochran" <mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>1) I'm Scot-Irish / English / Cherokee
>>
>>2) I'm a Polio Survivor
>>
>>3) I have an I.Q. of 163
>
> Well, I'm Scots-Irish and a Polio survivor.
> Dunno about the I.Q., though many regard me as a Smart Feller.
> And I put the Outside entity in the sin bin long ago, having concluded
> that it, and a very few others, had nothing I cared to read.
>
> (Does a kilowatt on 80 meters count as dirty electricity?)

Only if you cause QRM.

73 de ex-LA4NI

[Bjørn Steensrud]

Canth wrote:

> From what I have read, MRI works by playing around with the spin
> properties of the hydrogen nuclei in the water in the target tissue.
> It does not depend at all on anything generated within the tissue,
> supplying all the signals and energies itself. It operates on nuclear
> properties, not electrical properties. There are quite a number of
> different signals which can be generated by flipping the spin property
> of the hydrogen nuclei. These signals can be further refined to give
> complex 3D pictures of the tissues.
>
> Each type of tissue can be identified by the precise pattern of
> signals it gives out. The process is sufficiently precise as to be
> able to distinguish active neural tissue from inactive. I don't think
> it is precise enough to operate at the individual neuron level.

Sometimes it's called NMRI - nuclear magnetic resonance imaging, but the
patients balked at the use of "nuclear technology". So the name was changed
:-)

The patients don't seem to be afraid of a PET scan, though, even if that
involves real radioactivity ...

[Ozlover]

Exactly. So why do you do it all the time!?

--
Frank Slootweg

[Ian Field]

"Bjørn Steensrud" <bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message

news:o32jo8-...@astilbe.skogkatt.homelinux.org...

A few years back I built a TV sound intercarrier (6MHz) FM transmitter with
the RF coupled into the mains to broadcast the disturbance caused by the
(not) care in the community nutter in the flat above.

Being on the sound IF carrier rather than the UHF there was no tuning it out
and as the nutter was in the habit of hanging out the top floor window
shouting obscenities at passers by, just about everyone in the street
recognised her voice.

It was right in the 4 yearly football tournament, so she got plenty of
visitors.

[Ian Field]

"Bjørn Steensrud" <bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message

news:o5vio8-...@astilbe.skogkatt.homelinux.org...

DOS (and earlier versions of windows) don't even pretend to be multitasking.
However BBS and stuff like that was possible before even DOS.

Depends on your definition of networking I suppose.

[Ozlover]

Ian Field <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> "Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:9hiuhn...@mid.individual.net...

> > hemyd <myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

> >> news:j8vnet$kh1$1...@dont-email.me...

> >> > You keep yer dirty no-good 'lectricity to yerself!
> >> >

> >> > http://www.magdahavas.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/08_Havas_Diabetes_EBM.pdf
> >> >
> >> > I am not sure I can take this "study" seriously.
> >> >

> >> > --
> >> > Wes Groleau
> >> >
> >> > First Language Acquisition observed up-close & personal

> >> > http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1349
> >>
> >> A high enough voltage and current combination can definitely cure
> >> diabetes -
> >> and all other diseases. It stops you from getting old too...
> >

> > Voltage has little to do with it. Current is, literally, the killer!
> > OTOH, you obviously need some voltage to create the 'required' current.
>
> You still have to have sufficient voltage to overcome the body's
> resistance - an alkaline D cell can supply 1A for long enough but it doesn't
> have enough voltage to push that current through the resistance.

For my example of intravenous catheters example which you snipped,
there's very little resistance, so you need little/less voltage.

You and others apparently assume a certain scenario of a person being
connected to some electicity source, while Henry's post didn't mention
any. See for example the misunderstanding/misrepresentation of
outsider's response.

--
Frank Slootweg

[Ozlover]

hemyd <myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
[...]

> In the last ten days I've been imaging twenty teachers' Windows 7 laptops
> and am now in the last stages of data transfer and distribution..... Yes - I
> know about frustration! If only our network ran on DOS 3.1 - then I would
> have no problems.....
>

> (OK, OK, someone can explain why a network cannot or can run on DOS 3.1)

The suspense is *killing* me! PLEASE tell me/us why!

FWIW, I can only imagine something like the possible lack of EMS/EMM.
I can't think of anything else. But I've never used 3.1 (started with
3.3) and didn't use (DOS) networking until 5.0.

--
Frank Slootweg

[Ian Field]

"Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message

news:9ho91r...@mid.individual.net...

> hemyd <myd!!!h...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> [...]
>
>> In the last ten days I've been imaging twenty teachers' Windows 7 laptops
>> and am now in the last stages of data transfer and distribution.....
>> Yes - I
>> know about frustration! If only our network ran on DOS 3.1 - then I would
>> have no problems.....
>>
>> (OK, OK, someone can explain why a network cannot or can run on DOS 3.1)

Over many years of messing with computers I've stripped a few 8 bit network
cards out of old XTs, my guess is that you can.

[Bjørn Steensrud]

Ian Field wrote:

>
> "Bj�rn Steensrud" <bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message

LOL
Now *that* is a hack, in the sense as used by the old-time original
hackers!!

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-06-2011 03:00, Tiger Lily wrote:
> so that cloth covered wiring actually did have sufficient insulating
> qualities? (speaking in 1940's and prior terms)

Depends on the voltage. With most household voltages, all you need
is to keep the conductors more than a couple of millimeters apart.

--
Wes Groleau

Guidelines for judging others:
1. Don't attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
2. Don't attribute to stupidity that which
can be adequately explained by ignorance.
3. Don't attribute to ignorance that which
can be adequately explained by misunderstanding.

[Wes Groleau]

On 11-06-2011 03:15, Tiger Lily wrote:
> (TEASING, honest but TEASING, 1 pt can mean yesterday to tomorrow and
> how much coffee you had before the test)

With IQ, it's worse than that.

I am 122, 138, or 191 depending on which test you believe.

My aunt was 50 on one test and 75 on another.

How can I take seriously a metric in which one person
spans several times the standard deviation?

--
Wes Groleau

An example of research on the efficacy of EGT
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1007

[Gary Woods]

"Ian Field" <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>A few years back I built a TV sound intercarrier (6MHz) FM transmitter with
>the RF coupled into the mains to broadcast the disturbance caused by the
>(not) care in the community nutter in the flat above.

Most excellent....I guess there's 6MHz between sound and video in Europe?
It's 4.5MHz in the U.S., and I'm guessing modern sets are better shielded,
and not directly detecting the sound, rather than intercarrier, which saved
on then costly parts. Of course, digital transmission changes everything,
though our new TVs receive either.... the local cable system still carries
a lot of analog channels.
Veering even further off-topic: there used to be a stereo adapter that
sniffed the intercarrier signal via a little pod you stuck on the back or
bottom of the TV wherever the signal was strongest. Named "Fred," which in
geekish means "Fu***** Ridiculous Electronic Device."
Then there was the ham in New York City operating on 3580 CW in the early
days of color TV. The equipment at the nearby network operation was a
poorly shielded prototype, so he caused coast-to-coast TVI! In those days,
most of the techs could read code, so he was found pretty quickly.
We now return you to your diabetes, still in progress.

[Ian Field]

"Bjørn Steensrud" <bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:018jo8-...@astilbe.skogkatt.homelinux.org...
> Ian Field wrote:
>
>>
>> "Bj?rn Steensrud" <bjo...@skogkatt.homelinux.org> wrote in message

It sort of grew organically - first off since I'd heard you can run a
comparator linear if you roll it back with enough nfb, and the TL431
programmable zener is actually a comparator + 2.5V reference, this coupled
up to an electret mic and the AC component of the nfb shunted out gave a
humungous gain electret booster - the next step was to strip an electret mic
to experiment with various piezo elements as vibration transducers.

The FM generator was based on a 74LS629 VCO running at 12MHz into a
flip-flop for 50/50 MS ratio, through a push pull buffer pair to MOSFETs
driving a ftifillar toroid out of a scrap PSU.

With the subcarrier/af amp board out of a modular construction TV set I
could monitor the broadcast - I decided to wrap it up when I heard loud door
banging and "open up this is the police" - couldn't take the chance they'd
search the nutter's flat and on finding nothing look further afield.

[Tiger Lily]

On 11/6/2011 2:46 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 11-06-2011 03:00, Tiger Lily wrote:
>> so that cloth covered wiring actually did have sufficient insulating
>> qualities? (speaking in 1940's and prior terms)
>
> Depends on the voltage. With most household voltages, all you need
> is to keep the conductors more than a couple of millimeters apart.
>

oh my

so, it's a coincidence that when you move from a 60 amp service to 100
amp they want you to be running lumex thru the house? and not the cloth
covered wiring?

kate

[Tiger Lily]

14/2 wire..... 2 insulated wires, hot & return and 1 bare ground wire in
a sheath

lumex is a brand..... oops

[outsider]

The *really* funny thing is that I was answering Wes in kind. But
anything Wes says is OK, while whatever I say is deemed wrong. It
is a classic hypocrisy.

[ra...@val.com]

Chris Wrote
> In a sense, but note that the propagated polarisation collapse which
> is how these signals (signals, not currents, as Canth points out) are
> transmitted is still far too tiny and local an effect to register on
> the highest impedance skin surface pickups of EEG, ECG, etc.

That's certainly not my understanding. The voltages that register on
an EEG device are generated by the aggravate (millions or more nerve
cells) nerve activity that Canth described. No ones saying that brain
wave result from the activity of a single nerve cell. Nevertheless the
basic physiology that Canth described is what's responsible for
measureable brain waves.

Randy

[ra...@val.com]

Chris Wrote:
>but it is arguable that it is
> not, strictly speaking, an electrical current. What I mean by arguable
> is that experts argue about it. There is more than one good well
> supported opinion.

A voltage is a voltage whetherr generated by spinning coils in a
magnetic field or biological processes. I never heard of any
controversy on this point.
Do you have any references about the experts that debate this.

Randy

[outsider]

Thy were used as dumb terminals on a system that utilized a sophisticated
server OS.

[Budd Cochran]

"Tiger Lily" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9hmu15...@mid.individual.net...
> On 11/5/2011 11:02 PM, Budd Cochran wrote:
>> "outsider"<outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
>> news:9hlhts...@mid.individual.net...

>>> On 11/5/2011 12:23 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
>>>
>>> "Intelligence" and "education" are distinctly separate. I lack for
>>> neither.
>>>

>>> I don't care whether you read my offerings or not. Great food
>>> like that doesn't belong in your peasant stomach anyway.
>>
>> Ok, I know I have a ego:

>>
>> 1) I'm Scot-Irish / English / Cherokee
>>
>> 2) I'm a Polio Survivor
>>
>> 3) I have an I.Q. of 163
>>

>> 4) I've never failed to accomplish anything I've decided to do.
>>
>> But, in all honesty, Outsider, if I was ever to make claims like you have
>> I
>> would hope that God would shut my mouth and break my fingers.
>>
>> These two quotes above are as pompous as any I've ever read and are
>> totally
>> unwarranted ... and that includes politicians.
>>
>> You are about to put yourself in the same mold as the infamous "doctor"
>> ...
>> is that what you want to be known as?
>>
>> Budd
>>
>>
> Budd, you have CLASS and people skills
>
> something that evades outsider

Thank you, dear friend, but I'm just me.

>
> (competitive, beat ya by 1 pt on the IQ LOL)

> (TEASING, honest but TEASING, 1 pt can mean yesterday to tomorrow and how
> much coffee you had before the test)
>

> :D
>
> kate (who bows to many other very knowledgeable and intelligent folks she
> has met here over the years)

Ah, but that's the rub ... I was 14 and wasn't drinking coffee yet.

But I did have a big glass of Ovaltine (chocolate, of course) that morning.

Budd

[Budd Cochran]

"Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote in message

news:j96vdt$vhv$2...@dont-email.me...

Now you know why I never took another one ... Might have come away
"disappointed". :(

;)

Budd