Diabetes, testing, and depression
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> I like this part -
>> "Every time you test it's a reaffirmation that you have diabetes,"
>> McDougall said. "There's not many people other than folks with a
>> chronic disease who, every day, have to think about their own
>> mortality."
My thoughts:
This is a remarkably self-selecting newsgroup. Almost everyone (maybe
everyone) here has decided to take control of their condition and do
the testing they feel necessary.
At the same time, the vast majority of people here have only had
diabetes for a few months to a few years.
I've been at this a quarter century (and am still a young'un compared
to lots). I've slipped into what could probably be clinically described
as depression a couple times over those 25 years, and a couple times
ended up in the hospital as a result of depression making it difficult
to do the 4-8 times daily things like testing and taking my shots and
eating my food. The one sentence quoted above is a large part of this
depression (although testing by no means is the only element that leads
to it, there are enough other difficulties in anyone's life).
Getting formal help for this depression is far from automatic. In some
ways, this newsgroup is for support to prevent/help with this sort of
thing, at least as I use it. So, while it's great to come here and see
lots of self-motivated people as a way to keep me going, sometimes my
personal condition and the statements in this newsgroup interact to
make me either angry, sad, etc. It's probably better to get angry at a
bunch of self-selecting self-righteous newbies who've never had any
real difficulties than it is for me to get depressed, at least :-).
Tim.
Madison
<sho...@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
news:1164368074....@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
I had read about a diabetic that did it by over injection insulin. I
injected my whole pen of Homolog all at once, it took 5-6 injections. I was
saved because my mother heard me, I was shaking all over and knocking things
over in my bathroom. I was in the hospital for 5 days then went to another
hospital for mental evaluation. Now I have to go to therapy 3 times a week,
that is the only time I am allowed out of the house. They put a survalance
camera in my room and I am not allowed to keep my own insulin.
I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health problems are severe and
will be with me forever.
Madison
Health Solutions
Want relief from dipression. Depression may be described as feeling
sad, blue, unhappy, miserable, or down in the dumps. Most of us feel
this way at one time or another for short periods. I read some solution
for depression at
http://medical-health-care-information.com/encyclopedia/D/Depression.asp
It might be beneficial to you.
rk
I agree Tim 110%. I've only been at being diabetic 6.5yrs but I have
had other chronic health issues that have beyond took their toll on me.
Control for me is paramount yet some days almost impossible. I often
think when I see others in here complain about going to 140 or 160,
how they should try to walk a day in my shoes. With ALL of my chronic
problems, doubtful the way the complain they would last a day.. or they
would definately change their tune very quickly. When I came here I
did receive some good support.. then more and more certain types
began to flood this newsgroup and the tune quickly changed away from
"support" to those who love to ..... well I think you probably have the
same thoughts. But some days reading here when I'm really down and
would love for support... I'm often afraid to post or I'll feel like such a
failure... Sometimes, it's hard to remember DM is different for us all.
I'll leave it at that...
--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> Want relief from dipression. Depression may be described as feeling
> sad, blue, unhappy, miserable, or down in the dumps. Most of us feel
> this way at one time or another for short periods.
Many folks when feeling down in the dumps (but not really into full
clinical depression) will not eat for a day or put off some necessary
actions for a day.
Thing is, for a non-diabetic, not eating for a day or not taking
medication for a day probably is not a big deal.
For a Type 1, not eating or not taking medication will probably end up
putting us into extreme hypo or into DKA possibly in much much less
than a day.
So it doesn't really take full-blown clinical depression to have major
health impacts. Just being tired or sad or having a common cold or flu
that makes us tired enough that we don't do all the things we're
supposed to do, is enough to upset the delicate balance and send us
down a slippery slope where we just don't want to do it anymore.
I am certainly not into that mode now, but I have been in that mode a
few times in the past 25 years. And that quote from the paper that
others were mocking really should not be mocked: the stress of just
knowing that I had to test multiple times a day, over and above all the
other stresses, really has been the straw that broke the camel's back
at least once in the past 25 years.
Tim.
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help.
Madison,
At least once or twice over the past quarter century I've thought
about dong what you did, not so much to end it all but instead as a
plea for help. Of course it doesn't make much sense as a plea for help
(which is part of why I didn't do it) but really it is hard to find
help sometimes.
One thing that has helped me over the years, and probably prevented
me from going into depression/refusal to do it all at least a couple
times, is helping others.
When I was younger and in college, I happened to be going to the same
school that was associated with the hospital that had taught me all I
knew and was on good terms with the doctors/nurse-educators who worked
with diabetics. They would sometimes call me in when they needed a
"good example" to help others deal with their problems. Being a "good
example" really did help me keep on top of everything at the time.
alt.support.diabetes sometimes serves this purpose, even if people
are here making complaints about minor things, it is better to talk
about it than to let it all the pressure build up. I hope that we can
help you here, and that by helping you and others that we all really do
build up some of our own personal resources.
Maybe I'm being over-optimistic but it's better than being
pessimistic.
Tm.
W. Baker
: If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
: 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
: foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
: could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
: I had read about a diabetic that did it by over injection insulin. I
: injected my whole pen of Homolog all at once, it took 5-6 injections. I was
: saved because my mother heard me, I was shaking all over and knocking things
: over in my bathroom. I was in the hospital for 5 days then went to another
: hospital for mental evaluation. Now I have to go to therapy 3 times a week,
: that is the only time I am allowed out of the house. They put a survalance
: camera in my room and I am not allowed to keep my own insulin.
: I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health problems are severe and
: will be with me forever.
: Madison
Madison,
I suspected as much when we did not hear from you for such a long time.
Glad you are back home and, hopefully , on the mend. Things should look
up as your insides heal form the Celiac damage and you can enjoy more
foods and things in life without getting sick to your stomach all the
time.
You are lucky your parents have made it possible for you to have a second
chance at growing up and living a full life. Giving time, you may well
be very happy to be here in the world and the grief over your health
conditions will pass and just become part of you, like hair color or body
shape or gender. I have known peope who have tried wh tyou did and lived
to have happy, fullfilling lives, adjusting to their limitions. It is not
easy, and I dont want to be glip about it, bu tdo hang in there and tings
should get better.
You are a very special person to all of us in this group and we are all
pulling for you. Please keep in touch and let us know how you are doing,
and let us be an ear for you.
Wendy
GrandpaChuck
<madison_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
>2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
>foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
>could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
>
>I had read about a diabetic that did it by over injection insulin. I
>injected my whole pen of Homolog all at once, it took 5-6 injections. I was
>saved because my mother heard me, I was shaking all over and knocking things
>over in my bathroom. I was in the hospital for 5 days then went to another
>hospital for mental evaluation. Now I have to go to therapy 3 times a week,
>that is the only time I am allowed out of the house. They put a survalance
>camera in my room and I am not allowed to keep my own insulin.
>
>I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health problems are severe and
>will be with me forever.
>
>Madison
>
Madison I know that it took a huge amount of courage to share these
experiences with us. Having gone through a terrible bout of depression
myself about the time you were born, I know just how low a person can
get when they "know" their whole world is collapsing on top of them.
The important thing is that you mom did find you and took positive
action to save you life. I don't know if you believe in karma or not,
but you may have been saved so you will be around to reach out to
someone else and share your experiences in order to save them.
You have a large newsgroup family here that has come to love you since
you first posted. We want the very best for you and you are in our
prayers constantly.
Take care and continue to post so we know how you are.
--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of November 24, 2006 is 2872. United Kingdom = 126 Other = 121.
Non-Mortal American casualties 46,137 as of November 04, 2006.
Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents.
As of November 24, 2006 it has been 1301 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished."
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
> 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
> foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
> could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
Reading this saddens me.
> I had read about a diabetic that did it by over injection insulin. I
> injected my whole pen of Homolog all at once, it took 5-6 injections. I was
> saved because my mother heard me, I was shaking all over and knocking things
> over in my bathroom.
It was not by chance but by GOD that your mom heard you.
This means HE has other plans for you than to leave this world just
yet.
> I was in the hospital for 5 days then went to another
> hospital for mental evaluation. Now I have to go to therapy 3 times a week,
> that is the only time I am allowed out of the house. They put a survalance
> camera in my room and I am not allowed to keep my own insulin.
Your parents love you.
Others who know you also love you.
LORD Jesus Christ knows you and loves you.
Least of all, I love you.
> I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health problems are severe and
> will be with me forever.
Actually, your health problems will not be with you forever.
This GOD has promised.
"Heaven and earth will pass away but MY words will not pass away." --
LORD Jesus Christ
Amen
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing us of
of our anxiety, panic, and depression, dear Madison whom I love
unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
Kurt
> Someone else wrote, mocking a summary of diabetes testing:
>
> > I like this part -
> >> "Every time you test it's a reaffirmation that you have diabetes,"
> >> McDougall said. "There's not many people other than folks with a
> >> chronic disease who, every day, have to think about their own
> >> mortality."
>
> My thoughts:
>
> This is a remarkably self-selecting newsgroup. Almost everyone (maybe
> everyone) here has decided to take control of their condition and do
> the testing they feel necessary.
Or at least it appears that way.
> At the same time, the vast majority of people here have only had
> diabetes for a few months to a few years.
One thing that always amazes me is when I read someone's posting to
others and they speak as if they were an endo in terms of pushing their
advice. Then you look at their sig and they've been diabetic for one
or two months. It's a miracle that someone can become such an expert,
so firm in their treatment advice, and so sure that their doctor and
nutritionist are out to hurt them.
> I've been at this a quarter century (and am still a young'un compared
> to lots). I've slipped into what could probably be clinically described
> as depression a couple times over those 25 years, and a couple times
> ended up in the hospital as a result of depression making it difficult
> to do the 4-8 times daily things like testing and taking my shots and
> eating my food. The one sentence quoted above is a large part of this
> depression (although testing by no means is the only element that leads
> to it, there are enough other difficulties in anyone's life).
It is a dialy burden and can break down even the strongest person.
After years and years of constant maintenance one is bound to have a
day or two when they just want to say why f-ing bother.
> Getting formal help for this depression is far from automatic. In some
> ways, this newsgroup is for support to prevent/help with this sort of
> thing, at least as I use it. So, while it's great to come here and see
> lots of self-motivated people as a way to keep me going, sometimes my
> personal condition and the statements in this newsgroup interact to
> make me either angry, sad, etc. It's probably better to get angry at a
> bunch of self-selecting self-righteous newbies who've never had any
> real difficulties than it is for me to get depressed, at least :-).
I always try and keep in mind that when someone says all diabetics
should be under 110 at all times, that this person is either quoting
some book or not really a diabetic. There are some in here that make
coming to this group worthwhile and their words, thoughts, and personal
experiences do make me feel better.
Good thoughts, Tim. Thanks for posting them.
Best,
Kurt
Kurt
ITA. Reisa, you have had a pretty full plate of problems that I can
only imagine what it must be like to have to deal with. You are a very
strong person and your insights here about diabetes and pain management
are very insightful and appreciated.
Best,
Kurt
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> It is a dialy burden and can break down even the strongest person.
> After years and years of constant maintenance one is bound to have a
> day or two when they just want to say why f-ing bother.
That sort of attitude would be reactively mentally healthy compared to
what I went through, which was more of a I know what I gotta do but I
just can't do it anymore fear-paranoia-guilt paralysis. Most of these
episodes I did muddle through.
In some ways it's easier now that I'm older, there really is damn
little support for kids/teenagers/young adults with chronic
constant-maintenance diseases. I had some such support and count myself
lucky, but I see others here with less and I see others here with more
and it's not enough.
Tim.
Cheri
posting again. :-)
--
Cheri
Madison wrote in message ...
Alan S
<madison_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health problems are severe and
>will be with me forever.
>
>Madison
>
Welcome back.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Pompeii, Amalfi, Bari
Alan S
<gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>Anon has been asking about you. I'm sure he'll be very happy to see you
>posting again. :-)
>
>--
>Cheri
Yep:-)
Alan S
<kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>One thing that always amazes me is when I read someone's posting to
>others and they speak as if they were an endo in terms of pushing their
>advice. Then you look at their sig and they've been diabetic for one
>or two months.
>Best,
>Kurt
So, where in that sig does it mention how long since dx,
what type you are, or any other details to let others know
what shapes your point of view?
Incidentally, who are these one and two monthers you're
talking about? Where are the specifics, in lieu of innuendo
and generalities?
Andrea2
wrote:
If you believe in karma, after suicide the soul will return to the
exact evolutionary point that existed at the moment of suicide, at
which time the still-existing karmic entanglements must again be faced
and resolved. In short, for a Buddhist, suicide would solve nothing.
In a time of extreme depression, I attempted suicide twice. I spent a
long time in therapy and on Prozac. I finally come to realize that I
must face life no matter what it brings. If I had succeeded in my
attempts, I would have missed the joys of motherhood and the new life
that is unfolding for me.
Andrea2
Ozgirl
.
> I was saved because my mother heard me, I was shaking all
over and
> knocking things over in my bathroom. I was in the hospital
for 5 days
> then went to another hospital for mental evaluation. Now I
have to go
> to therapy 3 times a week, that is the only time I am
allowed out of
> the house. They put a survalance camera in my room and I
am not
> allowed to keep my own insulin.
>
> I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health
problems are
> severe and will be with me forever.
>
> Madison
I am sorry to hear all this. I know you have health problems
but I personally can't see how being locked away from the
world all day every day will have an effect other than
giving you too much time to think about the negative parts
of your life. I know your parents think they are doing what
is best for you, every parent has to do that but is there
some way you can speak to your therapist about this? Doing
outside activities is one of the best things anyone with
depression or worry can do. While actively doing something
else the mind can't dwell on the negatives.
Have you ever thought about participating in that Australian
online group for young type 1's? www.realitycheck.org.au I
think talking amongst people who have gotten on with life
despite health challenges may be good for you. Please think
about it. Set yourself some "goals" every day. A goal that
involves something positive. In the mean time, take care,
you are a beautiful person and a great inspiration to people
much older than yourself.
Alexander Arnakis
I can't understand how someone can be depressed just because of the
fact of having diabetes. For me, it's been just the opposite. When I
was diagnosed Type 1 at age 20 (some 41 years ago), the realization
came to me that I had been spared from certain death. (Remember, if
the diagnosis had come 50 years earlier, it *would* have been a
sentence of death.) My gratitude to Drs. Banting and Best (and God)
made me resolve to make the absolute most of the rest of my life. I
can honestly say that I haven't been depressed a single day, although
I've had lots of days that haven't been picnics physically.
Regarding the quotation,
>>> "Every time you test it's a reaffirmation that you have diabetes,"
>>> McDougall said. "There's not many people other than folks with a
>>> chronic disease who, every day, have to think about their own
>>> mortality."
>
I would say that every time you test, it's an affirmation that you're
doing all you can to *control* your diabetes. Being able to control
your physical condition gives you a tremendous sense of power and
self-worth. It's a matter of the glass being half-full rather than
half-empty. As someone else said, "The way to live a long and healthy
life is to contract a chronic disease and then take care of it!"
When I was diagnosed, I kept remembering a line from Rudyard Kipling's
"The Young British Soldier" --
"When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier."
A wise veteran of WWII once told me that the only way he and his
buddies were able to survive and function on the front lines -- and
keep their sanity -- was to consider themselves already dead. That
way, every conscious moment was a pleasant surprise. Remember, the
"default state" of the body is death, and every day that we're alive
is a gift. It's a terrible thing to waste that gift.
Marie
> Madison wrote:
> >
> > If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
> > 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
> > foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
> > could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
>
> Reading this saddens me.
Andrew, you of all folks should know that there is a *biological* link
between diabetes, Cushings,
menopause and peri-menopause, heart disease, and Fibromyalgia, Chronic
Fatigue, etc., and depression.
The depression is *not* always reactive to the illness.
You should now that the high output of cortisol makes 90% of Cushngs
patients develop clinical depression. You should also know that
diabetes and depression go hand in hand because of the blood sugar
irregularities; you should also know that women nearing menopause
develop hormonal imbalances or sensitivities to such imbalances that
are linked to low production serotonin the brain, etc., etc.
Depression is *not* always, and hardly ever, rooted in one's
spirituality or one's "thinking patterns."Chritians of all
denominations develop these disorders at the same rate as
non-Christians.
By the way, Bipolar illness and depression was identified as far back
as the ancients scholars.
You are making all diseases spiritual in origin. They are not.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Madison wrote:
> > >
> > > If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
> > > 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
> > > foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
> > > could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
> >
> > Reading this saddens me.
>
> Andrew, you of all folks should know that there is a *biological* link
> between diabetes, Cushings,
> menopause and peri-menopause, heart disease, and Fibromyalgia, Chronic
> Fatigue, etc., and depression.
An association is not a biological link.
> The depression is *not* always reactive to the illness.
Did not write that it is.
> You should now that the high output of cortisol makes 90% of Cushngs
> patients develop clinical depression. You should also know that
> diabetes and depression go hand in hand because of the blood sugar
> irregularities; you should also know that women nearing menopause
> develop hormonal imbalances or sensitivities to such imbalances that
> are linked to low production serotonin the brain, etc., etc.
Madison does not have Cushing's disease. Nor is Madison anywhere near
being menopausal. As for blood sugar irregularities, she has been
doing an awesome job thanks to the support from the regulars at ASD of
regulating her blood glucose.
> Depression is *not* always, and hardly ever, rooted in one's
> spirituality or one's "thinking patterns."Chritians of all
> denominations develop these disorders at the same rate as
> non-Christians.
Depression is being poor in spirit.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
-- LORD Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:3)
Amen.
> By the way, Bipolar illness and depression was identified as far back
> as the ancients scholars.
>
> You are making all diseases spiritual in origin.
Mood disorders are spiritual problems and not physical problems
althrough there may be real physical symptoms.
> They are not.
Truly, they are.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing us of
anxiety, panic, and depression, dear sister Marie whom I love
Pastor Kutchie
Chris Malcolm
> Someone else wrote, mocking a summary of diabetes testing:
>> I like this part -
>>> "Every time you test it's a reaffirmation that you have diabetes,"
>>> McDougall said. "There's not many people other than folks with a
>>> chronic disease who, every day, have to think about their own
>>> mortality."
> My thoughts:
> This is a remarkably self-selecting newsgroup. Almost everyone (maybe
> everyone) here has decided to take control of their condition and do
> the testing they feel necessary.
> At the same time, the vast majority of people here have only had
> diabetes for a few months to a few years.
Isn't that what you'd expect? People who are still trying to get a
handle on how to control their diabetes? My guess is that after a few
years most folk will have learnt most of what they're going and will
have settled into some kind of routine.
> I've been at this a quarter century (and am still a young'un compared
> to lots). I've slipped into what could probably be clinically described
> as depression a couple times over those 25 years, and a couple times
> ended up in the hospital as a result of depression making it difficult
> to do the 4-8 times daily things like testing and taking my shots and
> eating my food. The one sentence quoted above is a large part of this
> depression (although testing by no means is the only element that leads
> to it, there are enough other difficulties in anyone's life).
> Getting formal help for this depression is far from automatic. In some
> ways, this newsgroup is for support to prevent/help with this sort of
> thing, at least as I use it. So, while it's great to come here and see
> lots of self-motivated people as a way to keep me going, sometimes my
> personal condition and the statements in this newsgroup interact to
> make me either angry, sad, etc. It's probably better to get angry at a
> bunch of self-selecting self-righteous newbies who've never had any
> real difficulties than it is for me to get depressed, at least :-).
I think if you post about problems with depression and falling out of
control you may find there are rather more out there who can share
experiences with you than you might imagine. In any newsgroup those
who post and chat a lot give the dominant impression of the newsgroup
character. As I'm sure you realise, people with depression problems
are often a bit shy about talking about it to people who haven't
themselves confessed to similar problems.
--
Chris Malcolm c...@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Nicky
"Madison" <madison_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vbGdnaEVzqI0dvvY...@giganews.com...
>
> If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so
> depressed 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think
> it was foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth
> living and I could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
Sorry to hear about your tough time, Madison! I hope you can see some light
at the end of the tunnel...
Nicky.
--
A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> > This is a remarkably self-selecting newsgroup. Almost everyone (maybe
> > everyone) here has decided to take control of their condition and do
> > the testing they feel necessary.
>
> > At the same time, the vast majority of people here have only had
> > diabetes for a few months to a few years.
>
> Isn't that what you'd expect? People who are still trying to get a
> handle on how to control their diabetes? My guess is that after a few
> years most folk will have learnt most of what they're going and will
> have settled into some kind of routine.
I'm not sure how long you've been at this, Chris, but I've seen many
revolutionary changes in diabetes treatment and home testing in my 25
years with diabetes. It really is good to look at the routine and shake
it out every so often.
But, maybe you didn't quite catch what I was trying to talk about in
this thread: The routine itself is a factor in the depression, at least
for me. In fact the darkest times for me was when it was a routine, an
easy routine, but also one that I just couldn't do anymore (at least at
that time). And not because of physical problems, I really just
couldn't bring myself to do all the daily things.
At least in my case: The routine I had fallen into was in fact part of
the problem. Just thinking about the routine made things worse.
Sometimes talking about it or improving it really did help.
Maybe I've avoided that particular mode of depression recently by the
recent changes I've been making. Hard to say.
I will admit that ability to find time to post on Usenet and to find
time to learn new routines isn't always available.
Maybe my experience is skewed (after all, I voted for the creation of
misc.health.diabetes way back in April 1993 and was one of the very
first posters) but I've seen several generations go through this group,
some sticking around for more than a decade, and many around for only a
few months or years. The current group of most-frequent-posters is not
typical, but we've got some people with deep experience mixed in who do
meet my criteria for having something interesting to say :-).
> I think if you post about problems with depression and falling out of
> control you may find there are rather more out there who can share
> experiences with you than you might imagine.
Oh, certainly. It's great to get involved in discussions about real
issues and problems and approaches and solutions, as opposed to
"cookie-cutter" advice that is being rubber-stamped over and over
again.
> In any newsgroup those
> who post and chat a lot give the dominant impression of the newsgroup
> character. As I'm sure you realise, people with depression problems
> are often a bit shy about talking about it to people who haven't
> themselves confessed to similar problems.
Very true. Right now I feel pretty much on top of things so I have
enough confidence to talk about past hard times and have some
perspective on them. I will expect that in another quarter century I
might have a different perspective!
Tim.
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> Regarding the quotation,
>
> >>> "Every time you test it's a reaffirmation that you have diabetes,"
> >>> McDougall said. "There's not many people other than folks with a
> >>> chronic disease who, every day, have to think about their own
> >>> mortality."
> >
> I would say that every time you test, it's an affirmation that you're
> doing all you can to *control* your diabetes. Being able to control
> your physical condition gives you a tremendous sense of power and
> self-worth. It's a matter of the glass being half-full rather than
> half-empty. As someone else said, "The way to live a long and healthy
> life is to contract a chronic disease and then take care of it!"
What you write is certainly how I feel sometimes, maybe even most of
the time.
But the whole routine (testing, shots, don't eat, gotta eat, repeat,
repeat, repeat) really does get to be more than just a drag sometimes.
The depression with the never-ending repetition of the routine really
has gotten to me in the past. If it's never gotten to you, that's
great.
I think sometimes I try hard to pretend that it's never gotten me down,
or effectively paralyzed me from doing what needs to be done. Right now
it's good for me to admit that it has been overwhelming sometimes in
the past, but that right now I'm doing fine, and I'm even able to think
and talk about the difficult times in the past (which in itself is an
affirming experience for ME).
Tim.
Jackie Patti
> If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
> 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
> foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
> could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
Usually when people suggest getting help, they are talking about a
psychiatrist, who primarily prescribes meds. But meds only work for
some people, some of the time, and it takes trying one, then another,
which can go on for months before anything useful is found, if anything
ever is. I'm not saying people shouldn't pursue that option, it works
wonders for some.
But if you start there, don't stop there if you aren't one of the lucky
ones who can be helped by a script. It's very difficult to hang on
while hoping one med or the other will help for many months. Indeed,
hope itself becomes an enemy as hopes are dashed again and again and one
begins to fear ever hoping. One really needs serious support through that.
And yes, I am talking about a therapist... someone who you actually talk
with for an hour at a time. IMO, it doesn't even matter what type of
therapist in terms of their training, a psychologist may be good, but so
many a social worker or a minister or whatever. It doesn't matter what
type of therapist they are in terms of what their favorite flavor of
psychology is or what theories they work based on either. All that
matters is two things: that it is someone you really connect with and
that it is someone who fully understands the value of empathy.
It may take a bit of time to find someone who is truly qualified in
these two senses, but it's worth the effort.
I saw a very good therapist about 7 years ago specifically for suicidal
depression. I saw him for about a year. At the worst of it, I was
seeing him 3 times a week, and not doing *anything* else, not showering,
grocery shopping, eating or anything. I laid on the couch, participated
in a group for suicidal people online and went to therapy and that was
*all* I did for the worst six weeks of it.
I seriously doubt I would want to be alive today if not for him. And
please note that I did not say that I wouldn't *be* alive, but that I
wouldn't *want* to. Being alive when you don't want to isn't any help
after all.
And this is where my advice comes from... looking back, I see the main
things he did that were useful were that first, I really connected with
him - he was witty and had a very sick, twisted sense of humor as I do,
and we could actually talk and joke about suicide without it being dead
serious all the time. I am very like that myself, I never take offense
because something is too serious to joke about, and find the more
serious something is, the more I need to joke. My therapist had a dark
and twisted sense of humor so we really "got" each other and therefore
really connected.
And secondly, he just listened and supported me. If I told him how
miserable I was, he didn't come back at me with cheerful platitudes or
tell me to look on the bright side or hand other cliches to me. He let
me be miserable, say I was miserable, and heard me. Most people, even
very well-meaning friends and family who love you dearly, are not very
good at hearing you say awful stuff without trying to cheer you up. I
felt estranged from everyone who loved me at the time because of their
inability to empathize and it was a huge relief talking to someone who
actually listened and heard how I felt, even though those conversations
were not much fun.
My big "breakthrough" in therapy was nothing he did at all. One day we
were talking, and I said to him that while I didn't know *anything* in
the entire world that I wanted, I *did* want to want something. For me,
that was the day I chose life, in that while I saw nothing in life that
was worth the pain at all, I did want to find something that was.
I had spent over a year talking with him, basically trying to decide if
I wanted to live or not. That day I decided I did. But it took someone
willing to listen to me and let me make the decision myself to allow me
the time and space to get to the place of making that decision for myself.
> I had read about a diabetic that did it by over injection insulin. I
> injected my whole pen of Homolog all at once, it took 5-6 injections. I was
> saved because my mother heard me, I was shaking all over and knocking things
> over in my bathroom. I was in the hospital for 5 days then went to another
> hospital for mental evaluation. Now I have to go to therapy 3 times a week,
> that is the only time I am allowed out of the house. They put a survalance
> camera in my room and I am not allowed to keep my own insulin.
I am going to say something terribly controversial here.
One of the things that helped me tremendously was choosing a pretty much
foolproof method for killing myself. Having a plan, knowing it would
work no matter what, and being pretty sure I could pull it off even if
hospitalized against my will.
The reason was, that gave me space to not have to make the attempt. I
*knew* it was an option, I knew it was an option I could take anytime
that no one could take away from me, and I therefore could "relax" a bit
while I figured out if I wanted to or not.
It gave me a way to say to myself, "OK, I will give today a shot and see
how it goes cause if it's really *that* bad, I can always escape." And
if it *was* that bad, I could say, "Well, let's sleep on it and see how
tomorrow goes, cause if it's *still* this bad, I can escape." And
saying that sort of thing to myself let me postpone actually having to
do it.
Knowing I *could* escape let me postpone having to actually do it until
such time as I managed to not want to anymore. Having that choice made
a huge difference to me. Having my method planned out and foolproof was
a security blanket of sorts.
I *still* know that today. It's a comforting thought to me.
> I can not say if I will ever do it again, my health problems are severe and
> will be with me forever.
The problems you're facing isn't the problem, per se.
Some people face problems worse than yours and remain encouraged and go
on. On the other hand, some people have problems much lesser than yours
and are even more miserable. Pain cannot be measured by the size of the
problem. When you're depressed, it is a chronic pain that hurts an
awful lot nearly all the time.
Sometimes in my life, I am facing huge amounts of problems and I feel
confident, capable and competent, and just plan how to deal with those
problems and remain encouraged. Other times, the smallest problem can
seem overwhelming and overpowering and just too damned much to have to
deal with because I am not up to it. The difference is not in the
problem, but in me.
What really sucks is when you have the downside of both, when the
problems themselves are numerous and difficult and you are in that mood
of just not being able to deal. And if that situation goes on and on,
your life becomes very bleak. You cease finding pleasure in anything
and are just in chronic pain. It's quite natural to want to die.
The problem doesn't need to go away for things to get better though.
You can get better without the problem getting better and it greatly
improves life to the degree that it is worth living again.
Some of the problems I was depressed about are *worse* today than they
were when I was depressed. The difference is not in the size of the
problem, but in *me*. I can deal with them today, but I couldn't then.
I sum this up by saying... there has to be something in it for me.
Sounds selfish, doesn't it? It is. And it's also true.
You can't go around just doing what you're supposed to do and hanging in
there indefinably. Sure, you can do it for a while. But eventually, if
you give and give, and you never get anything back, you come to a place
where you just "run out."
For me, the beginning of getting better was deciding to figure out the
life I *really* wanted and work towards that. Not what I "should" want
or what was "expected" of me, but of what I *really* wanted. Basically,
I had to build a life that had something in it for me.
For everyone, even if they've never experienced depression, life has
both bits that are difficult, hard and challenging and bits that are
fun, enjoyable, and that deeply feed your soul. No one escapes having
ups and downs.
But they can become very out-of-whack. For me, at the worst of my
depression, the *only* pleasure in my life was when my cat curled up on
my chest in bed and purred on me. This was nice, but it wasn't enough
to live for, it didn't balance out all the pain and make it worthwhile.
The question when you're suicidal is are there enough ups to be *worth*
the downs? If there aren't, well... how do you get some?
When I went through this, I didn't even know what I wanted, didn't know
what would be an "up" for me. Not knowing what I wanted, but knowing
that I did want to want... I had to begin by spending a lot of time
thinking about what were my favorite "ups".
As I got more "ups" in my life, the "downs" got less. Not because the
problems were lesser, but because I had some internal resources to deal
with them, so they didn't hurt so bad. The "downs" became shallower and
less long-lived and eventually ceased being anything like what one could
even call depression. I got out of the "habit" of being unhappy.
I have a lot of good stuff in my life now and am working towards some
other goals, not to "achieve" things, but to get more good stuff that I
want.
But I can't encourage you by telling you what my life is like now and
what I hope for it to become like, because these are things *I* want and
you may not like them at all.
You have to find what *you* want, and get some of that stuff into your
life.
If your current life is not worth living, what life *would* be worth it?
Priscilla Ballou
Jackie Patti <jacki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The reason was, that gave me space to not have to make the attempt. I
> *knew* it was an option, I knew it was an option I could take anytime
> that no one could take away from me, and I therefore could "relax" a bit
> while I figured out if I wanted to or not.
>
> It gave me a way to say to myself, "OK, I will give today a shot and see
> how it goes cause if it's really *that* bad, I can always escape." And
> if it *was* that bad, I could say, "Well, let's sleep on it and see how
> tomorrow goes, cause if it's *still* this bad, I can escape." And
> saying that sort of thing to myself let me postpone actually having to
> do it.
>
> Knowing I *could* escape let me postpone having to actually do it until
> such time as I managed to not want to anymore. Having that choice made
> a huge difference to me. Having my method planned out and foolproof was
> a security blanket of sorts.
You really nailed it here. Knowing I could "get out" if I needed to
enabled me to get through all kinds of stuff that felt like it was
impossible. Not everyone understands that keeping topping yourself as
an option can make life more livable for some people sometimes.
Priscilla
rk
news:1164554353.1...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...:
: I'm not sure how long you've been at this, Chris, but I've seen many
: revolutionary changes in diabetes treatment and home testing in my 25
: years with diabetes. It really is good to look at the routine and shake
: it out every so often.
Tim, Chris hasn't even had a bg reading into the 200's and claims he's
death warming over at a glucose of 140. Sadly, as a T1, I cannot place
much worth in his posts because of his past posts. JMO. YMMV.
Cheri
to know they could if they wanted to, and some people really don't
understand dark humor. It makes them uncomfortable. Fortunately, my best
friend of 42 years has dark humor too, and she always understands it,
even when DH doesn't.
--
Cheri
Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ...
bj
news:12mjd49...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Usually when people suggest getting help, they are talking about a
> psychiatrist, who primarily prescribes meds.
That's not what I think of.
I think of "counselor" first -- as in, social worker or psychologist -- for
talking, not for medicating.
I used to have two live-in therapists (dogs), but they're both gone now.
bj
Nicky
"rk" <p_haha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56lah.4109$1s6....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> <sho...@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
> news:1164554353.1...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> : Chris Malcolm wrote:
> : > sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> :
> : I'm not sure how long you've been at this, Chris, but I've seen many
> : revolutionary changes in diabetes treatment and home testing in my 25
> : years with diabetes. It really is good to look at the routine and shake
> : it out every so often.
>
> Tim, Chris hasn't even had a bg reading into the 200's and claims he's
> death warming over at a glucose of 140. Sadly, as a T1, I cannot place
> much worth in his posts because of his past posts. JMO. YMMV.
Possibly that's because he's a T2, and he rarely attempts to discuss T1
matters except as an intellectual curiosity. His POV on T2 matters is
usually relevant and interesting.
TigerLily
i've been where you've been and i'm coming thru
the other side of it now... but you have put it
into an excellent summary form
kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own
experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience
can be
an expensive teacher.
"Jackie Patti" <jacki...@gmail.com> wrote in
message news:12mjd49...@corp.supernews.com...
Alan S
<p_haha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>: I'm not sure how long you've been at this, Chris, but I've seen many
>: revolutionary changes in diabetes treatment and home testing in my 25
>: years with diabetes. It really is good to look at the routine and shake
>: it out every so often.
>
>Tim, Chris hasn't even had a bg reading into the 200's and claims he's
>death warming over at a glucose of 140. Sadly, as a T1, I cannot place
>much worth in his posts because of his past posts. JMO. YMMV.
That was unnecessary.
As a T2 his perceptions and his problems are different. That
does not diminish the worth of his posts, any more than your
lack of understanding of his T2 problems diminishes the
worth of yours in other debates.
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> <sho...@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
> news:1164554353.1...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> : Chris Malcolm wrote:
> : > sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> :
> : I'm not sure how long you've been at this, Chris, but I've seen many
> : revolutionary changes in diabetes treatment and home testing in my 25
> : years with diabetes. It really is good to look at the routine and shake
> : it out every so often.
>
> Tim, Chris hasn't even had a bg reading into the 200's and claims he's
> death warming over at a glucose of 140. Sadly, as a T1, I cannot place
> much worth in his posts because of his past posts. JMO. YMMV.
But Type 2's have many identical (and the other similar) elements of
the daily routine that you and I have and that I have identified as a
factor in my past difficulties.
And while the Type 2's who post here most often may not have much to
complain about, they are complaining about their worries, and the
worries and their association with the daily routine are the other
factor. At least some of them are talking about their worries and
that's better than keeping them bottled up!
In some sense many Type 2's here are setting themselves up with goals
that may not be realistic in the long term (your complaint I think),
and that in itself is another factor in some depression.
The "average" Type 2 is (from my understanding, reading research
articles, working with local support groups, etc.) in much more daily
difficulty than the Type 2's who post here most frequently and vocally.
One thing that most Type 2's get to completely avoid (and I'm jealous
of it) is childhood and adolescence with a chronic disease. It gives
them a different viewpoint than me but perhaps a more broad viewpoint.
So there's more in common than you might think!
Tim.
Chris Malcolm
> <sho...@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message
> news:1164554353.1...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> : Chris Malcolm wrote:
> : > sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> :
> : I'm not sure how long you've been at this, Chris, but I've seen many
> : revolutionary changes in diabetes treatment and home testing in my 25
> : years with diabetes. It really is good to look at the routine and shake
> : it out every so often.
> Tim, Chris hasn't even had a bg reading into the 200's
Not true. At the time of diagnosis I was regularly running BGs of over
200 (whole blood) in response to meals. After diagnosis I tried a
Cornish pasty (a beef and onions pie in a pastry envelope) and got a
reading of 210. That was a whole blood reading, which I recently
discovered should be converted to plasma by adding 12%, so that was a
plasma reading of 235.
> and claims he's
> death warming over at a glucose of 140.
Not true. What I've claimed is that BGs of 140 are the lowest I can
detect without a BG meter by the occurrence of very slight physical
symptoms (the beginning of neuropathic tinglings). That's about as far
as could be from "death warming over".
> Sadly, as a T1, I cannot place
> much worth in his posts because of his past posts. JMO. YMMV.
I don't object to your being rude to me. I do object to you posting
outrageous lies about me. Keep doing it and I'll write to gmail about
it.
Kurt
sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
> But Type 2's have many identical (and the other similar) elements of
> the daily routine that you and I have and that I have identified as a
> factor in my past difficulties.
>
> And while the Type 2's who post here most often may not have much to
> complain about, they are complaining about their worries, and the
> worries and their association with the daily routine are the other
> factor. At least some of them are talking about their worries and
> that's better than keeping them bottled up!
>
> In some sense many Type 2's here are setting themselves up with goals
> that may not be realistic in the long term (your complaint I think),
> and that in itself is another factor in some depression.
>
> The "average" Type 2 is (from my understanding, reading research
> articles, working with local support groups, etc.) in much more daily
> difficulty than the Type 2's who post here most frequently and vocally.
>
> One thing that most Type 2's get to completely avoid (and I'm jealous
> of it) is childhood and adolescence with a chronic disease. It gives
> them a different viewpoint than me but perhaps a more broad viewpoint.
>
> So there's more in common than you might think!
Of course there is much in common between Type1 and Type 2 diabetes.
Some here want to create a great divide because they have an agenda and
we Type 1's somehow interfere with it. Hey, Tim, you might enjoy a
little "parody" :) I wrote some time ago that kind of addressed that
very thing. Keep in mind it was written in good fun and does not
reflect my feelings about most in here who use a low carb diet to
control their diabetes, just the pushy and extreme ones.
THE LOW CARB SCREETCHES by Kurt
(with lots of help from Dr. Suess)
Now the Low-Carb Screetches had diets with Low Carbs.
The Plain-carb Screetches ate the recommended in thars.
The Low Carbs weren't so big; they were really quite small.
You would think such a thing wouldn't matter at all.
But because they ate Low Carb, all the Low-Carb Screetches
would brag, "We're the best kind of Screetch on the Internet beaches."
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they'd snort,
"We'll have nothing to do with the plain-carb eating sort."
And whenever they met some, when they were in the newsgroup
posting,they'd chastise them daily and give them a roasting.
When the Low-Carb posters would post their beliefs,
could the Plain-carb believers post their theories? Not without grief!
You could only post your WOE if your diet was Low Carb,
and the Plain-carb Screetches ate too many in thars.
When the Low-Carb Screetches had frankfurter roasts,
or picnics or parties and never ate toast,
they never invited the Plain-carb Screetches.
Left them out cold in cyberspace outreaches.
Kept them away; never let them come near,
and that's how they treated them year after year.
Then one day, it seems, while the Plain-Carb Screetches
were moping, just moping alone out of reaches,
sitting there, wishing their bellies didn't have so many Carbs,
in the newsgroup came a stranger from away and afar.
"My friends, " he announced in a voice clear and keen,
"My name is Sylvester McMonkey McBean.
I've heard of your troubles; I've heard you're unhappy.
But I can fix that; I'm the fix-it-up chappie.
I've come here to help you; I have what you need.
My prices are low, and I work with great speed,
and my diet is one hundred per cent guaranteed!"
Then quickly, Sylvester McMonkey McBean
put together a very peculiar eating regime.
Then he said, "You want Low Carbs like a Low-Carb Screetch?
My friends, you can have that...for three dollars each.
Just hand me your money and I'll email you my diet."
They clambered to pay him even after Ted yelled "Don't try it!"
It fed them and bled them. It made them eat less. They hungered. They
wondered. If this really was the best.
When the Plain-carb Screetches woke up, they ate Low Carb!
They actually did, their bellies had Low Carbs inside thars!
Then they yelled at the ones who had Low Carbs from the start,
"We're exactly like you; you can't tell us apart.
We're all just the same now, you snooty old smarties.
Now we can come to your high protein frankfurter parties!"
"Good grief!" groaned the one who had Low Carbs from the first.
"We're still the best Screetches, and they are the worst.
But how in the world will we know," they all frowned,
"if which kind is what or the other way 'round?"
Then up stepped McBean with a very sly wink, and he said,
"Things are not quite as bad as you think.
You don't know who's who, that is perfectly true.
But come with me, friends, do you know what I'll do?
I'll make you again the best eating Screetches on Usenet,
and all it will cost you is ten dollars, you bet.
Low Carb eating is no longer in style," said McBean.
"What you need is a diet and my Carb-on eating routine.
This wondrous diet will get rid of your Low Carbs,
so you won't look like Screetches who have them in thars."
That handy routine, working very precisely,
added the "ADA recommended" Carbs in their bellies quite nicely.
Then, with snoots in the air, they paraded about.
They opened their beaks and proceeded to shout,
"We now know who's who, and there isn't a doubt,
the best kind of Screetches are ones with Carbs in their mouth."
Then, of course those with Low Carbs all got frightfully mad.
To be eating Low Carb now was frightfully bad.
Then, of course old Sylvester McMonkey McBean
invited them to partake in his regular Carb eating regime.
Then, of course from then on, you can probably guess,
things really got into a horrible mess.
All the rest of the day in the newsgroup called alt.support.diabetes,
the Fix-it-up-Chappie was feeding them cheese and then Wheaties.
Off again, on again, in again, out again,
through the eating routine and back round about again,
still paying money, still dining through,
changing their Low Carb eating every minute or two,
until neither the Plain- nor the Low Carbers knew
whether this one was that one or that one was this one
or which one was what one or what one was who!
Then, when every last cent of their money was spent,
the Fix-It-Up-Chappie packed up and he went.
And he laughed as posted his last on the site,
"They never will learn; no, you can't teach them what's right!"
But McBean was quite wrong, I'm quite happy to say,
the Screetches got quite a bit smarter that day.
That day, they decided that Screetches are Screetches,
and no kind of Screetch is the BEST on the Internet beaches.
That day, all the Screetches forgot about Low Carbs,
and whether their diets had too many or too few in thars.
Ozgirl
> One thing that most Type 2's get to completely avoid (and
I'm jealous
> of it) is childhood and adolescence with a chronic
disease. It gives
> them a different viewpoint than me but perhaps a more
broad viewpoint.
Not necessarily. Reisa's 19 yr old is one example of
endocrine problems upsetting the best part of her
adolescence. She suffers insulin resistance, PCOS, thyroid
problems, weight gain, the whole caboodle without actually
having type 2. There are many who go through this in
teenagehood. Then there is my kids' 9 yr old step brother, a
steroid induced type 2 on Metformin and insulin already.
These are just a few examples.
I am curious why you think type 2's have no problems, as if
the talks about our insulin resistance, the difficulty in
gaining control because of that alone, the thyroid problems,
cardiovascular problems etc etc are not enough to show you.
By the time a type 2 is diagnosed most are well on their way
to serious complications if they haven't got them already.
Neither type is a cake walk. And with insulin resistance
there is no guarantee the injected insulin is even going to
bring down numbers. Type 2 are usually running high numbers
for a long time, plenty of time for neuropathy, CV damage,
kidney damage, eye problems erectile dysfunction etc to take
a strong hold. I think trying to fix or stop the progression
of that may be just a little bit more than having a few
"worries"?
Ozgirl
You are a fucking freak Kurt and a liar to boot. You have
some serious problems. You even accused me in MHD yesterday
of having a bias against type 1's. You would have to be the
most childish,. pathetic, ignorant son a bitch I have come
across in a long time. Your support level in here is zero,
you add absolutely nothing to anything. You are here to
bitch, moan, whine, tell lies and generally pretend you are
better than almost everyone here. Get a life, because the
one you have now stinks.
You are nothing but a peanut gallery member. You spend your
entire time trying to put people down or undermine their
supportive efforts. You are not a support person's bootlace.
You are the king of "divisiveness", you put a great effort
in trying to draw a huge line between type 1 and 2, that is
when you aren't drawing a huge line between carb lowering
people and those who aren't. Ninety nine percent of all
these types of exchanges are caused by your trollish
behaviour alone. You dive into every thread as soon as a
newby arrives to put forth your little vicious comments
about how that person will be treated by the group of low
carbers. What age are you again? You are worse than my
teenagers and that is saying something.
You want to totally destroy a group? Is that your aim? Or is
just for the childish pleasure that heckle and lie?
Priscilla Ballou
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote:
I imagine it's probably because he has such a teeny tiny penis.
Priscilla
rk
news:vze23t8n-C6BF6C...@individual.net...
: In article <12mkm27...@news.supernews.com>,::
: I imagine it's probably because he has such a teeny tiny penis.
:
: Priscilla
*shrug* guess it matches your teeny tiny mind.
Kurt
>You are a fucking freak Kurt and a liar to boot. You have
>some serious problems.
Wow, speaking of serious problems, you have some real anger issues.
>You even accused me in MHD yesterday
>of having a bias against type 1's.
IMO you do. But why stop there, why not inform those who didn't get a
chance to read the thing that prompted me to criticize you. You were
basically doing what you have done before, telling someone not to
listen to me.
Ozgirl said: "Don't be swayed by articulate people like Kurt who have a
thing about type 2's helping type 2's when he himself is a type 1 and
doesn't have the same sorts of problems that type 2's do with metabolic
syndrome and beyond."
You seem to be able to dish it out and criticize others but snap like a
dry twig when someone returns fire. Must be in the water in Australia
because Alan does the same thing.
>You would have to be the
>most childish,. pathetic, ignorant son a bitch I have come
>across in a long time.
You talk like that and you call ME childish? Unbelievable.
>Your support level in here is zero,
Not true. I post support when I consider it warranted. I don't always
do so gratuitously but you're not really reading all my posts if you
think I don't offer support to anyone. Support doesn't always just
come as a "you go girl" or "good for you" it comes in many different
forms. I try to be sincere when I do offer it.
>you add absolutely nothing to anything.
I'll borrow a snippy little phrase that you've used on me..."just
because you say so, doesn't make it true." Fitting here.
>You are here to
>bitch, moan, whine, tell lies
That's not why I'm here. I'm here because I have diabetes just like
most who are here. If I've told a lie, then please point it out. But
not just if you disagree with my opinion, show me where I've lied about
anything in regards to diabetes information.
>and generally pretend you are
>better than almost everyone here.
That's your perception. You seem to do a fair share of that yourself,
BTW.
>Get a life, because the
>one you have now stinks.
Yeah, whatever.
>You are nothing but a peanut gallery member. You spend your
>entire time trying to put people down or undermine their
>supportive efforts.
That's your opinion and how Ozgirl sees it. I doubt if you'd feel that
way about me if I said the ADA was wrong or I pushed low-carb on
people.
>You are not a support person's bootlace.
Huh?
>You are the king of "divisiveness", you put a great effort
>in trying to draw a huge line between type 1 and 2, that is
>when you aren't drawing a huge line between carb lowering
>people and those who aren't.
This is a pretty common tactic when arguing with someone; turn what
they say about you back at them. Because I said you are divisive when
it comes to the two groups you then accuse me of doing it. Sorry, Imm
the one who has always contended that Type 1's and Type 2's have much
in common.
>Ninety nine percent of all
>these types of exchanges are caused by your trollish
>behaviour alone.
90%? Yeah, that's something you can confirm.
>You dive into every thread as soon as a
>newby arrives to put forth your little vicious comments
>about how that person will be treated by the group of low
>carbers.
Too old for you to think you can talk to me like one of your children.
>What age are you again?
Obviously much older than you mentally when you use this kind of grade
school attack.
>You are worse than my
>teenagers and that is saying something.
You sure do put down your kids a lot in your posts. Do you have these
kinds of anger episodes at home, too, when one of them disagrees with
you?
>You want to totally destroy a group? Is that your aim? Or is
>just for the childish pleasure that heckle and lie?
Of course I am not out to destroy a group, any group. You know what my
opinion is of this group because I have stated it many times and it is
the basis of what motivates my posts that you seem to have such a
problem with. This newsgroup is for everyone, not just one specific
ideology. Some, including you, seem to want to make it very difficult
for those who disagree with you to peacefully coexist in here and offer
an alternative viewpoint.
Many of the posters in here I respect and get along with. Most newbies
that come in here I don't comment on unless I have something to
offer, such as a link to the ADA or Joslin. I react to those who
condemn the ADA and encourage a newbie to reject the advice of their
doctor and replace it with amateur advice by people who basically are
strangers. I disagree strongly with the mantra of "eat to your meter"
because I think that is not enough. You recently had a meltdown when I
stated my opinion on that, as well. When I see that going on, I'm
going to comment on it. Just like you comment on things you disagree
with. And as I've said before, the few voices in here that do speak
out against the doctoring going on are usually drowned out, and
certainly outnumbered, by the majority. There is a place here for all
ideas. If you don't like mine then you have the ability to say your
own opinion and even tell me I'm wrong. That's how these
newsgroups work.
If unloading on me made you feel better, then it succeeded. If it was
an attempt to make me feel bad about myself, it failed. You obviously
meant every word of your rant to me here and it must have been building
up for quite some time now. Sorry you feel that way about me, but
there is little I can do to change your opinion except to say that I
think you are wrong.
Kurt
Ozgirl
> Ozgirl wrote:
>>You are a fucking freak Kurt and a liar to boot. You have
>>some serious problems.
>
> Wow, speaking of serious problems, you have some real
anger issues.
>
>>You even accused me in MHD yesterday
>>of having a bias against type 1's.
>
> IMO you do. But why stop there, why not inform those who
didn't get a
> chance to read the thing that prompted me to criticize
you. You were
> basically doing what you have done before, telling someone
not to
> listen to me.
Yes please do everybody, don't take either of our words for
it, go and read the thread.
> Ozgirl said: "Don't be swayed by articulate people like
Kurt who have
> a thing about type 2's helping type 2's when he himself is
a type 1
> and doesn't have the same sorts of problems that type 2's
do with
> metabolic syndrome and beyond."
Never a truer word spoken. You butt into almost every type 2
thread, should I print the examples?
But you forgot the sentence of mine right before that: "If
you can pick the bad things about this group and ASD then
please tell us."Which was a direct reply to something Dr
Biggs said: "I am sensing a strong undercurrent that any
challenge to a low carb diet will be promptly punished in
this newsgroup".
Let's not forget this unprovoked comment either: "As you
will see, Dr. Biggs, the brainwashing from some posters on
a.s.d. will be quite resilient. They will even take on a
professional endo like yourself and play good cop, bad cop.
The hopeful outcome is the same as what they do to the
newbies on a.s.d."
> You seem to be able to dish it out and criticize others
but snap like
> a dry twig when someone returns fire. Must be in the
water in
> Australia because Alan does the same thing.
If you kept your nose out of type 2 affairs I wouldn't even
know you existed. And for the most part you aren't returning
with fire, you are instigating. That is the problem. How
many type 2's do you see swarm in on a newby type 1 before
anyone other type 1's can answer and warn them off the type
1 fanatics? None. On the other hand you can't wait to put
your pathetic 2 cents worth of criticism in.
>>You would have to be the
>>most childish,. pathetic, ignorant son a bitch I have come
>>across in a long time.
>
> You talk like that and you call ME childish?
Unbelievable.
Criticism has become childish? Pathetic heckling is
childish. It would be nice if you could just get on with the
business of helping type 1's and supporting people's efforts
no matter what side of this fence you have built they sit
on.
>>Your support level in here is zero,
>
> Not true. I post support when I consider it warranted. I
don't
> always do so gratuitously but you're not really reading
all my posts
> if you think I don't offer support to anyone. Support
doesn't always
> just come as a "you go girl" or "good for you" it comes in
many
> different forms. I try to be sincere when I do offer it.
I think I must have missed all the type 1 support to other
type 1's.
>>you add absolutely nothing to anything.
>
> I'll borrow a snippy little phrase that you've used on
me..."just
> because you say so, doesn't make it true." Fitting here.
>
>>You are here to
>>bitch, moan, whine, tell lies
>
> That's not why I'm here. I'm here because I have diabetes
just like
> most who are here. If I've told a lie, then please point
it out. But
> not just if you disagree with my opinion, show me where
I've lied
> about anything in regards to diabetes information.
You lie about my so called bias, you lie to every newbie
about the fact that the type 2 low carb fanatics are going
to swarm in trying to change them to their way of thinking,
want more examples? Did I say you lied about diabetic
information? I'd have to actually see you talk type 1
diabetic stuff to know that.
Some, including you, seem to want to make it very difficult
> for those who disagree with you to peacefully coexist in
here and
> offer an alternative viewpoint.
I disagree with your persistent undermining efforts and
heckling. I couldn't care less what your eating preferences
are or whether you are sleeping with the ADA but you seem to
want to interfere in type 2 management. Raised bg's and
potential complications are the only two things you and I
have in common. Tell me how to treat insulin resistance,
tell me how to prevent having excess endogenous insulin
running through my body so I can avoid the cardiovascular
problems that excess insulin causes. If you know the answers
to that then you can see why I disagree with you trying to
warn newby type 2's off gaining knowledge they need in their
arsenal. You are more than undermining, you are trying hard
(probably without even knowing it because you have no
personal experience with type 2) to ensure a newby doesn't
get access to life saving information.
>
> Many of the posters in here I respect and get along with.
Most
> newbies that come in here I don't comment on unless I have
something
> to
> offer, such as a link to the ADA or Joslin. I react to
those who
> condemn the ADA and encourage a newbie to reject the
advice of their
> doctor and replace it with amateur advice by people who
basically are
> strangers. I disagree strongly with the mantra of "eat to
your meter"
> because I think that is not enough. You recently had a
meltdown when
> I stated my opinion on that, as well.
I had a spit about you insisting no one mentions exercise as
being important, another of your lies which are in the
archives along with the proof that exercise is mentioned
here frequently.
There is a place here for all
> ideas. If you don't like mine then you have the ability
to say your
> own opinion and even tell me I'm wrong. That's how these
> newsgroups work.
Ideas yes, experience yes, undermining no. Trying to pretend
you know what a type 2 needs. Do you hear me telling type
1's not to take their insulin? That would be criminal, just
as it is criminal that you don't want newbies to hear
something that could save their lives. I doubt you even know
what part of type 2 treatment I am talking about here but
hopefully you can guess and realise why you are being a
jerk.
> If unloading on me made you feel better, then it
succeeded. If it was
> an attempt to make me feel bad about myself, it failed.
Nothing could make you feel bad about yourself because you
don't realise where you are stuffing up in this.
You obviously
> meant every word of your rant to me here and it must have
been
> building up for quite some time now.
Of course I meant it because almost daily you make
unprovoked remarks about people.
Remember, just because you say so, doesn't make it true.
There are always archives.
Kurt
> If you kept your nose out of type 2 affairs I wouldn't even
> know you existed. And for the most part you aren't returning
> with fire, you are instigating. That is the problem. How
> many type 2's do you see swarm in on a newby type 1 before
> anyone other type 1's can answer and warn them off the type
> 1 fanatics? None. On the other hand you can't wait to put
> your pathetic 2 cents worth of criticism in.
Oh, my 2 cents is pathetic and yours is solid gold? LOL The only ones
that are swarming on newbies are people who can't wait to tell them
that doctors don't know anything and the ADA is evil. All I can do is
repeat to you what I've said before, there is room for all ideas and
approaches and it is important that newbies are exposed to all of them,
including mine. I never offer specific medical advice and it's a shame
that some in here do. You can kick and scream and swear and insult and
throw a little temper tantrum like a five-year-old all you want but it
isn't going to change the fact that this newsgroup is for ALL
diabetics.
You have never fooled me, Jan. You are one of these people who pretend
to be so sweet and helpful but turn into a snake when someone disagrees
with you. I had your number back when you posted that horrible post to
Tom about the ADA paying for his funeral. That's your true colors. So
spare me the lecture on support and helping your fellow diabetics. I've
seen you and a few others run some very good posters out of this
newsgroup and it has only made me even more resolved to stay here and
offer an alternative to the heavy handed armchair doctoring that goes
on in here. Don't like it? Tough.
Kurt
Kurt
> I had your number back when you posted that horrible post to
> Tom
One last thing, I want to apologize for dragging that up from the past.
I realize that both parties have gotten over that and made up and I had
no right to being that up in this discussion.
Kurt
Alan S
<kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You seem to be able to dish it out and criticize others but snap like a
>dry twig when someone returns fire. Must be in the water in Australia
>because Alan does the same thing.
No, she has been incredibly patient for a very long time.
When she finally snapped I was only surprised at the time it
took. And how mildly she phrased it.
I'll speak for myself separately. Lumping her in the same
basket as me is typical of your tactics. She speaks her mind
to you, so do I, we're both from Oz - aha! An anti-Kurt
conspiracy! What a load of crap. You really aren't important
enough to warrant that sort of effort. In fact, I'd be proud
any time to be considered an ally of Jan's, but that doesn't
justify that slur. She speaks her own mind.
Stick to the subject and the person in your attacks. But, of
course, snide innuendo is your technique - slide a little
bit sideways and put in the boot. Rarely direct, even with
me. Warning against low-carb terrorists - but never name
them; hint at dangerous people and internet doctors - but
never have the guts to directly refute a post that may tend
towards that.
Bloody gutless wonder. You have done your very best to
destroy this group for your own weird purposes since the day
you arrived. Many of us tried to work with you, to
communicate, to try to find a common ground; I thought there
was a chance when you offered to approach the ADA with this
group's input - but it was all an ego trip and hot air,
wasn't it?
Alan, T2, Australia.
I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people
who annoy me. Noel Coward
Ozgirl
>> Ozgirl interrupted wrote:
>
>> If you kept your nose out of type 2 affairs I wouldn't
even
>> know you existed. And for the most part you aren't
returning
>> with fire, you are instigating. That is the problem. How
>> many type 2's do you see swarm in on a newby type 1
before
>> anyone other type 1's can answer and warn them off the
type
>> 1 fanatics? None. On the other hand you can't wait to put
>> your pathetic 2 cents worth of criticism in.
>
> Oh, my 2 cents is pathetic and yours is solid gold? LOL
The only
> ones that are swarming on newbies are people who can't
wait to tell
> them that doctors don't know anything and the ADA is evil.
The archives about you say otherwise. You have about 3
different approaches to telling newbies about the people in
here, from mildly subtle to blatant.
Name the people I ran off. You already
I notice you also bypassed the questions I asked you about
insulin resistance and hyperinsulemia. Until you understand
the importance to a type 2's CV system and know how to
prevent it from causing major problems then you have no
right to try and sway a type 2 newby away from some
important information.
Would you prevent people from telling a kid who had just
started smoking how the smoking can damage and continue to
damage that kid's body? Would you stop someone telling a
newly diagnosed type 1 that they don't need insulin? This is
the same thing. There is a very effective way of improving
hyperinsulemia in IR people. Your smart arsed little
comments to all new type 2's are irresponsible. Even worse
you don't seem to see a problem with your childish little
backhands. Why don't you want type 2's to share their
knowledge with newbies?
--
Ozgirl -Type 2 - No Diabetic Meds
Lots of exercise and a nutritious carb-controlled diet.
sho...@trailing-edge.com
> sho...@trailing-edge.com wrote:
>
> > One thing that most Type 2's get to completely avoid (and
> I'm jealous
> > of it) is childhood and adolescence with a chronic
> disease. It gives
> > them a different viewpoint than me but perhaps a more
> broad viewpoint.
>
> Not necessarily. Reisa's 19 yr old is one example of
> endocrine problems upsetting the best part of her
> adolescence. She suffers insulin resistance, PCOS, thyroid
> problems, weight gain, the whole caboodle without actually
> having type 2.
Well, I suffer from most of those associated problems and I'm not Type
2 either.
What's your point? Mine was that Type 1's and Type 2's have a lot
(almost everything) in common.
> I am curious why you think type 2's have no problems, as if
> the talks about our insulin resistance, the difficulty in
> gaining control because of that alone, the thyroid problems,
> cardiovascular problems etc etc are not enough to show you.
> By the time a type 2 is diagnosed most are well on their way
> to serious complications if they haven't got them already.
I had most of those serious complications/co-morbidities when I was a
teenager. What's your point, that I don't know about them, that I don't
fear them, that I'm not tested for them, that I don't see a doctor for
them, that I don't have to deal with them too? Please stop thinking
that I'm not thinking about them or doing anything about them or
writing here about them, I've been doing so on Usenet for way more than
a decade.
Tim.
Ozgirl
My point (to all your requests for my point) was that your
blatantly trivialised type 2's.
Ozgirl
That comment didn't worry me but I did wonder if you had
always had this thing about low carb. It seems you had a big
thing for extreme low carbers way back when and it now has
expanded to anyone who speaks of lowering their carbs, even
those on 100gr carb or so - because you are certainly
attacking everyone who suggests carb lowering, no matter
what the degree. I haven't seen an extremist in here since
Bob the Boob.
Gantlet
"Kurt" <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164610264.0...@45g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
sad thing is that after 4 years i have seen that scare tactic used on a few
newbies that stayed long enough to say they are not going low carb.
Tom
Gantlet
"Kurt" <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164607095.3...@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Oh, my 2 cents is pathetic and yours is solid gold? LOL The only ones
> that are swarming on newbies are people who can't wait to tell them
> that doctors don't know anything and the ADA is evil. All I can do is
> repeat to you what I've said before, there is room for all ideas and
> approaches and it is important that newbies are exposed to all of them,
> including mine. I never offer specific medical advice and it's a shame
> that some in here do. You can kick and scream and swear and insult and
> throw a little temper tantrum like a five-year-old all you want but it
> isn't going to change the fact that this newsgroup is for ALL
> diabetics.
yes it should be - but it is not. I really dont think its about helping
newbies as much as it is pushing low carb diets and books on newbies.
this group has turned into the longest running doctor bashing low carb
commercial.
>
> You have never fooled me, Jan. You are one of these people who pretend
> to be so sweet and helpful but turn into a snake when someone disagrees
> with you. I had your number back when you posted that horrible post to
> Tom about the ADA paying for his funeral.
As far as telling newbies they are going to die if they dont go low carb.
I do believe I was the last one she told that to. perhaps she seen how much
it hurt me as i was only diabetic about 3 days and very scared.
but others in here usually just talk about how they are going to suffer
if newbies dont go low carb and follow them blindly.
> That's your true colors.
i am not really sure what their true colors are. I only wish i could find
out for sure who the spammers are. every newsgroup has them and i am sure
this group also does.
>So
> spare me the lecture on support and helping your fellow diabetics.
one thing about you and I is that we offer support to any diabetic
regardless of the type of diet they choose. but yes sometimes there are
even newbies ( i dont know if they are real) that have also taken on the low
carb agenda and even tho they are only diabetic a few weeks and sometimes
even days they try to act like experts to the new newbies.
> I've
> seen you and a few others run some very good posters out of this
> newsgroup
Ozgirl has changed a bit but yes many newbies do get chased out of here.
I think Alan and Susan and the worst of that kind.
>and it has only made me even more resolved to stay here
same here.
>and
> offer an alternative to the heavy handed armchair doctoring that goes
> on in here. Don't like it? Tough.
>
> Kurt
Kurt if it wasnt for your feeling that diabetics dont have to eat low carb
you would liked very much here. cause lets face it.. that is what you, I
and RK stand for. Diabetics do not have to eat low carb and also that we
point out things in this doctor bashing low carb commercial that simply are
not true.
Tom
UP UP and AWAY!!!
Cheri
she thought she was a type 2. :-)
--
Cheri
Gantlet wrote in message ...
Mark K. Bilbo
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>> Madison wrote:
>> >
>> > If you get depressed and can not shake it, get some help. I was so depressed
>> > 2 months ago that I did a foolish thing, at least others think it was
>> > foolish. I tried to end my life, at the time life was not worth living and I
>> > could not see any hope of it ever getting any better.
>>
>> Reading this saddens me.
>
> Andrew, you of all folks should know
But that was before he and reality parted ways...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
Marie
> > Andrew, you of all folks should know that there is a *biological* link
> > between diabetes, Cushings,
> > menopause and peri-menopause, heart disease, and Fibromyalgia, Chronic
> > Fatigue, etc., and depression.
>
> An association is not a biological link.
It's a neurological link. Doesn't the Bible state that all the members
of the body are interrelated?
If the spiritual bodyof Jesus is so, then the physical body is the
same. The brain can go wrong just as the rest of body systems and
organs can go wrong. You're taking the brain right out of the whole
equation. Might as well take the heart out as well, and tell folks that
heart disease is
spiritual in origin--and cancer, diabetes, menopause, leukemia, and on
and on.
> > The depression is *not* always reactive to the illness.
> Did not write that it is.
Then that settles it, right?
> Depression is being poor in spirit.
>
> "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
> -- LORD Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:3)
No it's not. Besides, that statement by Jesus refers to the Millenium.
Jesus was going to set up His earthly kingdom. His first coming was
supposed to be His second coming. Why do you think that John the
Baptist said "The axe is laid at the root of the trees?" and " Who has
warned you from the WRATH to come?" Wrath? That happens at the Second
Coming. You know that John would have been the Elijah who was to come.
This Scripture does not apply to today.
Besides, poor in "spirit" is not poor in "body."
> Mood disorders are spiritual problems and not physical problems
> althrough there may be real physical symptoms.
Not true. Already there is a gene that has been identified that is
related to mood disorders.
No matter what, you are going to think just like the gene that has
programmed you to think, and feel the same way. You can't change
biology.
You can't wish diabetes away.
You can't wish depression away.
You can't wish cardiovascular disease away.
You can't wish cancer away.
IF indeed all disease is rooted in spiritual "poverty," then we are all
"poor in spirit," and all of us will receive the Kingdom of Heaven,
even the most evil among us..
Kurt
I don't have anything against any one person who chooses to lower their
carbs to control their diabetes. What I am against is those who do
follow low carb to pressure others to follow it and critcize those who
reject it as the one and only way to control diabetes. Part of the
problem is what the term "low carb" means. There are days when I only
eat 100 gr of carbs per day and others when I eat much more. For me it
depends on my activity level for the day. It became pretty clear when
I read the Dr. Biggs thread in MHD that there are those who will not
see it any other way except their way and become very vocal about it
when someone says, hey there are other approaches that may work. The
ADA diet recommendations are continually slammed in here by those same
vocal critics, even though the ADA says "work with one's doctor to find
out their individual needs." I don't advocate ANY one diet because I
don't know the people's needs who post here. And, as I've said before,
I think it's dangerous to tell others what they should or shouldn't do.
There are many in here who report eating low carb, and some who have
come and gone, who share their experiences without the bully tactics
that go with it. Proving that it is possible to do so and showing that
this is what the group should be about.
>I haven't seen an extremist in here since
> Bob the Boob.
Cheap shot. There are others who feel the exact same way I do, perhaps
not as vocal. Ironically, I see you and several of your cohorts in here
as extremists.
Kurt
Kurt
Gantlet wrote:
> Kurt if it wasnt for your feeling that diabetics dont have to eat low carb
> you would liked very much here.
No doubt. I never thought I would encounter a community that is
labeled support that would discriminate against someone because of what
they ate.
>cause lets face it.. that is what you, I
> and RK stand for. Diabetics do not have to eat low carb and also that we
> point out things in this doctor bashing low carb commercial that simply are
> not true.
I think many in here have proven that eating a low carb diet can be a
good thing for someone with diabetes, be it Type 1 or Type 2. The
problem, IMO, is two-fold: 1) what is low carb and how low is too low;
how high is too high 2) When does support stop and bullying and scare
tactics begin.
> UP UP and AWAY!!!
I like this phrase because it signifies activity and exercise versus
just talking about carbs.
Best,
Kurt
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Marie wrote:
>
> > > Andrew, you of all folks should know that there is a *biological* link
> > > between diabetes, Cushings,
> > > menopause and peri-menopause, heart disease, and Fibromyalgia, Chronic
> > > Fatigue, etc., and depression.
> >
> > An association is not a biological link.
>
> It's a neurological link.
An association may suggest a link but it may also be totally unrelated
because depression is highly prevalent even among people with no other
medical problems.
> Doesn't the Bible state that all the members
> of the body are interrelated?
Yes.
> If the spiritual bodyof Jesus is so, then the physical body is the
> same.
It is.
> The brain can go wrong just as the rest of body systems and
> organs can go wrong.
Correct.
> You're taking the brain right out of the whole
> equation.
No. There are diseases of the brain. These include schizophrenia,
epilepsy, CJD, stroke, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Mood
disorders like depression, mania, manic-depression are not among these
diseases of the brain.
> Might as well take the heart out as well, and tell folks that
> heart disease is
> spiritual in origin--and cancer, diabetes, menopause, leukemia, and on
> and on.
It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully.
> > > The depression is *not* always reactive to the illness.
>
> > Did not write that it is.
>
> Then that settles it, right?
It simply shows you are being untruthful.
> > Depression is being poor in spirit.
> >
> > "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
> > -- LORD Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:3)
>
> No it's not.
Being driven by necessity to turn to the LORD for help is a blessing.
> Besides, that statement by Jesus refers to the Millenium.
This statement is HIS teaching us, HIS brethren about how to live in
this world.
> Jesus was going to set up His earthly kingdom. His first coming was
> supposed to be His second coming. Why do you think that John the
> Baptist said "The axe is laid at the root of the trees?" and " Who has
> warned you from the WRATH to come?" Wrath? That happens at the Second
> Coming. You know that John would have been the Elijah who was to come.
> This Scripture does not apply to today.
Incorrect.
> Besides, poor in "spirit" is not poor in "body."
Correct.
> > Mood disorders are spiritual problems and not physical problems
> > althrough there may be real physical symptoms.
>
> Not true. Already there is a gene that has been identified that is
> related to mood disorders.
Genes are invariant from birth to death. For this reason, no gene will
be the cause of mood disorders which vary from birth to death.
Truth is simple.
> No matter what, you are going to think just like the gene that has
> programmed you to think, and feel the same way. You can't change
> biology.
GOD can and has changed all things.
> You can't wish diabetes away.
GOD can cure it.
> You can't wish depression away.
GOD can cure it.
> You can't wish cardiovascular disease away.
GOD can cure it.
> You can't wish cancer away.
GOD can cure it.
LORD GOD Almighty has been, is, and will be forever omnipotent.
> IF indeed all disease is rooted in spiritual "poverty," then we are all
> "poor in spirit," and all of us will receive the Kingdom of Heaven,
> even the most evil among us..
All are invited, few will accept, and even fewer will be dressed
appropriately for the Wedding of the Lamb.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water, curing our
anxiety, panic, and depression, dear sister Marie whom I love
unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
Gantlet
"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
news:qIGdnV8AhbXKi_bY...@inreach.com...
> You're missing one important point. RK did very much advocate LC, when
> she thought she was a type 2. :-)
>
> --
> Cheri
I think RK has been here longer than I. the earliest post I remember of
RK's (rk please correct me if it wasnt you)
was when i first came here and found out that Jennifer was over 300lbs and I
have to admit that i found it od that her advice was being recommened to
newbies as a weight loss plan by some in here. Even tho she openly admited
she didnt feel the need or even wanted to lose weight. As I remember RK
asked Jennifer if she felt funny giving out her diet plan being it failed
her ( her words once again if i remember right).
i remembered that post because at that time I was the only newbie that didnt
give up their doctors advice for strangers in a newsgroup and that post from
RK was the only one that made any sence to me.
So I dont rememeber RK acting anything like Susan and Alan ( just to name
2)
however no matter what RK's posting history is, I am only looking at how
she posts today.
--
Tom
Gantlet
"Kurt" <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164651597.9...@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Gantlet wrote:
>
>> Kurt if it wasnt for your feeling that diabetics dont have to eat low
>> carb
>> you would liked very much here.
>
> No doubt. I never thought I would encounter a community that is
> labeled support that would discriminate against someone because of what
> they ate.
i just noticed a thread about one of the regulars in here being very sick.
I wish them well but at the same time, if you or I were having the same
problems all we would be reading about is how they warned us.
a simple example was that I hurt my back while doing incline sit ups and
right away they were blaming the carbs. its very agrivating and very sad
that we cant openly share our ups and downs with out some fanatic turning
into something for their every type 2 has to eat low carb agenda.
--
Tom
rk
view is about.
YES, even NOW I do advocate lower carbs for diabetics if that is what
works for them. My problem which I stand with Kurt and Tom is that
there are some in here that make direct statements or what a few of
us call "armchair doctors" are posting stating that there is NO other way
for diabetics that ALL diabetics must be on low carb to maintain their
glucose. This certainly isn't true. I've gone the low carb route and I've
gone the higher carb route. There are still some days that I can eat
250-300gm and not have a problem then there are days that if I eat
over 100gm I have issues. It's not up to anyone in here to state this
or that.. What Kurt and Tom suggest is that you work it out with your
doctor for what works best for you. Granted it's a two-fold problem
when you have an idiot for a doctor and you need to do your own
research. But in the end, for me, it's 99% of the way others make
statements, not opinions or suggestions but statements. And no Cheri,
you've never done this.. I've only seen you state, "this is what works
for me" which is what others should put as well but sadly they don't
which is what gets the fights started.
--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
news:qIGdnV8AhbXKi_bY...@inreach.com...
: You're missing one important point. RK did very much advocate LC, when
:
:
rk
much Jennifer still weighted I found it to be... "do as I say not as
I do" type of advice for me and I did call her on it. I don't recall
the thread or what all was said other then the fact she didn't care
how much she weighted and wasn't interested in losing weight so
long as her A1C's were in the 5's and I ended it at that.
And for the record, no I've never stated LC was the only way to go.
I've always suggested that one starts off with cutting foods completely
out and then testing and finding out what works for them if they have
a idiot doctor they can't work well with.
But there are doctors out there that DO actually know something.. I've
definately fired my fair share of them over the past 6yrs.
Again, where there is a will there is a way!
--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
"Gantlet" <Gan...@Verizon.SPAM.net> wrote in message
news:PaGah.14239$_x3.9104@trndny02...
:
:
:
: "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
: >
: >
:
:
Cheri
nobody else that I can recall ever said it either, but a few years ago
you did say this, (good advice BTW) which was my point. As we all grow
and learn more about our disease, or are rediagnosed, we change our
ideas or our game plan...especially if something isn't working for us,
but LC is a good starting point IMO and should always be recommended as
an option, even if it doesn't turn out to be the best option for some.
Cheri
Reisa said:
"None of us are doctors, but the DR doesn't live with this disease WE
do,
we know what will spike us and harm us many of them give very dangerous
information unfortunately to new diabetics.
keep the breads, pastas, potatoes, rice, and other starchy foods to a
null,
watch the fruits,
eat more veggies, and meats/fish."
rk wrote in message ...
Cheri
certainly LC for beginning BG control without losing weight, and yes RK
has been here much longer than you, and I have been here longer than
her, we both had different nics in the early years, but how long we've
been here doesn't have a thing to do with it IMO. Jennifer never gave
anyone a weight loss "diet" plan, and nobody ever said that LC was the
ONLY way to go, even if it is pointed out that many type 2's here have
been successful with it. I would like to look at how people post today
too, but all this constant bringing up of past hurts and thoughtless
words doesn't really allow any of us to do that, so we just keep going
round and round. At least we all seem to be a little more civil at
times...well, most times. :-)
--
Cheri
Gantlet wrote in message ...
>I think RK has been here longer than I. the earliest post I remember
Gantlet
"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
news:M4OdneRQ4cJe0fbY...@inreach.com...
> Jennifer never stated that she was LC'ing as a weight loss plan.
no one ever said she did.
>You can
> certainly LC for beginning BG control without losing weight,
now a wise way to go in my opinion. it can take away the motivation to
become healthier.
it was very easy to me to lose a little weight and have an A1C in the 5%
club in 3 months. off all medications in 6 months and still have A1C's in
the 5% range for 4 years.
> Jennifer never gave
> anyone a weight loss "diet" plan,
that is the way some push it on newbies.
>and nobody ever said that LC was the
> ONLY way to go,
maybe not in so many words. they usually say its your eyes, your kidneys
your legs, your life (and that is putting it nicer than they do.) with a few
insults about being a blind sheep - if you dont follow their LOW CARB
ADVICE.
--
Tom
W. Baker
: Gantlet wrote:
: > Kurt if it wasnt for your feeling that diabetics dont have to eat low carb
: > you would liked very much here.
: No doubt. I never thought I would encounter a community that is
: labeled support that would discriminate against someone because of what
: they ate.
: >cause lets face it.. that is what you, I
: > and RK stand for. Diabetics do not have to eat low carb and also that we
: > point out things in this doctor bashing low carb commercial that simply are
: > not true.
: I think many in here have proven that eating a low carb diet can be a
: good thing for someone with diabetes, be it Type 1 or Type 2. The
: problem, IMO, is two-fold: 1) what is low carb and how low is too low;
: how high is too high 2) When does support stop and bullying and scare
: tactics begin.
As far as I know, we all talk about YMMV regarding carbs or particular
foods and recommend suing a meter to help find what foods and in wht
quantities you can tolerate. I have found tht I can tolerate quite a bit
of carrots(raw-seldom have them cooked) tomatoes, and cooked beets
(beetroot foor the OZs). I aalso found tha tI really can't tolerate 2
carbyy fods at lunch, so I can have a slice of read or a fruit, etc at
lunch(or 2 slices of ow-carb bread or a low carb pita_, but not both. At
dinner I can have a very small amoount of some starch and a smal fruit or
no starch and a medium fruit. I can eat a wasa or Ryevita with something
on it, even beneficial lower fat margarine and my no sugar added jam as a
snack or wiht an egg substitute omelette for breakfast. Not, by any means
, a high carb diet, but one that works for me and that has been aproved by
my endo AFTER THE FACT. He also criticised the dieticians' higher carb
levels and wonders why the ADA sticks with the hisher levels for A1c's .
By the way, the latest issue of the ADA diabetes Forcast magazine, in the
editoial article by the new editor again used the <7 A1c as what should be
mentioned frequently. No mention of being even lower is better or
advisable if you can manage it, etc.
I really don't see people pushing very low carb diets fo rall, although
some, like Roger and Ray eat them, bu tnot Alan, who loves his meusli cold
cereal for a night snack. He found he could eat this whole grain, fairly
high carb food at that time by testing. I don't know or care what
Jennifer's weight is. Her testing plan is designed to gainrapid control
over bgs by extensive testing. It does not pretnd to be a weight loss
program. I would imagine that for most of us, the principle we follow is
don't waait for the weight to come down to gain bg control, either do both
at the same time or, at least get those bgs under control.
Your picking on people every time they post gets quite tedious and just
increases acrimony. This used to be a pleasant group to read with peole
having suggestions of many sorts, not "either or" or "you are a turd for
suggesting that." Gratuitous sniping gets you nowhere.
Wendy
Gantlet
"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message news:ekfj88$r15>
> This used to be a pleasant group.
>
> Wendy
Bullshit.. just google this group for ADA and Atkins and you will find that
while those in here think they have found something new this has been going
on for a very long time. but in my opinion most ofthe low carbers here are
very annoying, ignorant and liars - not very pleasant to be around.
and that is why Kurt, RK and myself post as we do. While liars in here may
make it seem like we are the trolls we are simply returning insults. just
look at how newbies get insulted that dont give up their doctors advice for
strangers in a newsgroup. Kurt and I were also once those newbies but we
stayed.
--
Tom
Cheri
Gantlet wrote in message ...
>
>
>news:M4OdneRQ4cJe0fbY...@inreach.com...
>> Jennifer never stated that she was LC'ing as a weight loss plan.
>
>no one ever said she did.
Well, you said another poster asked her how she felt about "giving out a
diet plan that failed her." Your words, not mine. Jennifer has never
given out a diet plan.
>>You can
>> certainly LC for beginning BG control without losing weight,
>now a wise way to go in my opinion. it can take away the motivation to
>become healthier.
> it was very easy to me to lose a little weight and have an A1C in the
5%
>club in 3 months. off all medications in 6 months and still have A1C's
in
>the 5% range for 4 years.
That may be true for you, but not others. Your opinion is as valid as my
opinion though.
>> Jennifer never gave
>> anyone a weight loss "diet" plan,
>that is the way some push it on newbies.
Show me who the "some" are. Many people will lose weight on it, and if
they say LC helped me to lose weight as well, how is that pushing
anything on anyone?
>>and nobody ever said that LC was the
>> ONLY way to go,
>maybe not in so many words. they usually say its your eyes, your
kidneys
>your legs, your life (and that is putting it nicer than they do.) with
a few
>insults about being a blind sheep - if you dont follow their LOW CARB
>ADVICE.
Sorry Tom, but you don't get to decide that people have hidden meanings
in their words, and neither do I, but "your eyes, your kidneys, your
legs, your life," will be compromised if you don't get your BG under
control, is much different than posters telling people this will happen
if you don't LOW CARB. Show me where that happened, because I honestly
don't remember anyone ever saying that.
Cheri
Cheri
great group when we can rehash it over and over and over.
--
Cheri
Gantlet wrote in message ...
>
Alan S
<kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Cheap shot. There are others who feel the exact same way I do, perhaps
>not as vocal.
Who, apart from Tom and rk? In fact, to say that rk feels
the same as you is unfair, and I withdraw it unless she
confirms it. So who, apart from Tom, feels that it's
necessary for you to jump on every single newby T2 intro
thread to warn them of the evil low-carbers and net-doctors
who are about to ravage them?
A vote folks.
All in favour of Kurt's actions - say "aye"
Alan, T2, Australia.
Ozgirl
How is it a cheap shot? He was proud of a no carb diet. He
was an extremist and at his worst when Madison was newly
diagnosed. I can't see how you can even begin to see me as a
low carb extremist.
You seem to have an unusual view of how a type 2 should gain
control of their health. There is more to making a type 2
healthy than lowering bg and exercising. All the components
of the metabolic syndrome are cv risks, they need to be
dealt with and in a timely manner. The effect of met
syndrome has already put a newly diagnosed diabetic in the
same category as a person who has already had a heart attack
due to the extended insulin resistance, hyperinsulemia and
bg's. Insulin resistance with hyperinsulemia is far more
damaging to the cv system than high glucose in the short
term.
If you don't stop the hyperinsulemia then any benefit from
lowering bg's is almost cancelled out. This is why I get
pissed off when you try to interfere with the sharing of
knowledge. The single most effective way of treating
hyperinsulemia and fast is preventing the pancreas from
releasing high amounts of insulin. Can you guess what the
most effective way of doing that is? You don't know enough
about the workings of type 2 with it's associated IR and
hyperinsulemia to be poking your nose in.
Jackie Patti
> Exactly. Some people really don't understand the security it gives one
> to know they could if they wanted to, and some people really don't
> understand dark humor. It makes them uncomfortable. Fortunately, my best
> friend of 42 years has dark humor too, and she always understands it,
> even when DH doesn't.
I greatly limit expressing my humor, because it *is* offensive as all
hell. The more serious and painful something is, the more likely I am
to think terribly inappropriate thoughts. For me, it is almost a
*necessity* to my mental health to think "wrong" things about something
serious - it takes some of the pain away. It's a pressure valve.
But... most people don't "get" that and find it offensive, so I don't
often do it. So when I do have someone I can share my sick jokes with,
it's very kewl.
When my husband was a teenager, if his mom went away for the weekend, he
and his siblings fought over who got her car. Years later, when his mom
sat them down to tell them her cancer had returned and metastasized to
her brain and she was going to die, he yelped, "I get the car!"
His mom wanted "Comfortably Numb" played at her funeral. His whole
family is sick and twisted like that. His humor is part of what
originally attracted me to him and part of why I so enjoy my inlaws.
They're all a bunch of sick puppies. ;)
I expect I'd be massively flamed if I posted half the stuff I said to my
husband and friends as we watched 9/11 unfold on TV. I am really awful!
The more something hurts, the more inappropriate I get.
And yeah, it's largely why I connected with my therapist, cause he was
pretty twisted too. ;) I could tell him jokes like thinking it'd be
kewl if there were drive-through suicide parlors, though of course,
there'd have to be a used car lot next store else the cars would pile
up. We didn't have to have a long-drawn out conversation about what
such a joke "really meant," he "got" that it was blowing off steam. And
he saved up all his best suicide jokes for me too. I bet no one would
*ever* use a transcript of any of our sessions as an example for
teaching therapists. :)
Gantlet
"Alan S" <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ommm2t1skbrl1fgg...@4ax.com...
just about every newbies doctor would say "aye"
and that is what is most important to me.
the way this group is is the reason that only those that post here
read here. my web site has a control pannel and in 2 news groups
67 people visited it. it has a lot of hits but only 67 unigue visitors.
yes Alan you probably have more but i didnt spam my site in as many as you
did.
and that lil counter on your profile dont mean squat.
--
Tom
Ozgirl
When Kurt first joined he went immediately into abusing "low
carb extremists". He was rabid. Even Reisa threatened to
killfile him. Now he has extended the playing field to
include almost anyone who even mentions any degree of carb
reduction.
Alan S
<p_haha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>My problem which I stand with Kurt and Tom is that
>there are some in here that make direct statements
>or what a few of us call "armchair doctors" are posting
>stating that there is NO other way for diabetics that
>ALL diabetics must be on low carb to maintain their
>glucose.
Who?
To you, Tom and Kurt.
Enough with the innuendo and slurs. You seem to think that
constant repetition of the lie makes it true.
Names with specific examples of posts where that has been
said please.
Specifically where any regular has stated "that there is NO
other way for diabetics that ALL diabetics must be on low
carb to maintain their glucose" or any direct equivalent.
I know of very few - occasional short term drop-ins who are
immediately corrected and never stay around, the spammers,
Chung - but no regulars.
Put up or shut up.
You three and your constant carping are destroying this
place. If you dislike it so much, go start
alt.support.ktr.diabetesmoaners, a self-admiration society
of your very own.
Alan, T2, Australia.
Nicky
> Oh, my 2 cents is pathetic and yours is solid gold?
Glad you got that one, Kurt. Jan has helped people unstintingly for as long
as I've been reading this newsgroup; I can't remember you ever posting
anything of worth to a T2. You may have helped T1s; as I don't have much to
say to them, I tend to stay out of obvious T1 threads.
Nicky.
--
A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg
Alan S
<Gan...@Verizon.SPAM.net> wrote:
>
>i just noticed a thread about one of the regulars in here being very sick.
>I wish them well but at the same time, if you or I were having the same
>problems all we would be reading about is how they warned us.
>a simple example was that I hurt my back while doing incline sit ups and
>right away they were blaming the carbs. its very agrivating and very sad
>that we cant openly share our ups and downs with out some fanatic turning
>into something for their every type 2 has to eat low carb agenda.
>
>--
>Tom
You really are a pathetic lying ungrateful turd, aren't you?
This is only a selection from a long list of support and
good advice, not one carb was mentioned:
From: "Thomas Muffaletto" <mrgantlet...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:49:28 GMT
Local: Tues, Jun 28 2005 2:49 am
Subject: Pains in Leg and Back
I have not been able to exercise since June 22.
First I had a pain in my back, hip and ankle but the back
pain only lasted 2 days.
since then I have had a lot of pain in my hip - I think it
is the hip I have never had pain in that area before.
also I am having a lot of pain in my ankle of the same leg.
I wonder if some how it is a nerve causing this whole
problem.
I have made an appointment with my doctor today and that
will probably start a whole bunch of tests :(.
for those of you just starting to exercise and hate it - I
have no come to a point when I hate when something stops
me from exercising. :( . I don't really mind the pain I can
live with it but this pain might be a warning sign of
something.
and exercising with it may only make it worse.
*****
From ADE
Hi Tom,
I'm sorry to hear about what you're having. However, please
don't make it worst by adding with stress worrying something
that you don't know.
It might be just a simple muscle pull. Just keep your
glucose within a good range and do some light exercise, some
light yoga might be nice.
On the other hand, going to that jacuzzi might be able to
relax those muscle ache. Take care yourself and looking
forward to hear from you in that exercise mood.
******
Tom, I am sorry to hear this. I hope the doctor doesnt find
anything diabetes related.
Loretta
******
Hi Tom,
You do the right thing to stop exercising until you get it
sorted, if you did continue you may aggravate things and
that might keep you away from it for longer than if you stop
and get it sorted out.
Hope you get it sorted quickly!
Patrick
****
Sorry to hear that, Tom. Hope the doc can fix you up!
Nicky.
*****
Tom, we may disagree on some basic things, but I wish you
the very best in finding the problem and fixing it. I need
you back so I can argue with you.
Knowing how much you rely on exercise, keep an eye on those
numbers. I wouldn't dare offer you dietary advice on how to
keep them down - but you'd better check medications with
your doc.
Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
*****
Hope you find the cause of it and get well soon.
Best Regards,
Evelyn
*****
> I feel very depressed and cant even think about exercise. all I want to
> do is lay down and not get up.
{{{Tom}}}
> I cant wait to see my doctor and go over the x-rays and see what is what.
Don't walk out of the door without a pain-management
strategy. You CAN have a life back (perhaps with some
modifications!), you've just got to figure
out how.
Nicky.
*****
Thomas,
What you describe sounds to me like exactly like nerve
compression from a crushed or exploded disc.
It may not show up on x-ray. It would show up on MRI.
Before you give up, go to a good neurologist and have him do
a workup on your spine. The hip and leg pain is the
signature of lumbar disc nerve damage A good friend of mine
was in the condition you describe and it was relieved by
surgery (after two weeks spent on a morphine pump in the
hospital!)
This is one condition where back surgery can perform
miracles.
That said, if it is from the disc, it may also spontaneously
resolve. That's why they didn't operate on my friend
immediately. My back crisis left me paralyzed for a while,
then in excruciating pain, but with time it abated and I'm
pain free now unless I do stupid things (which, alas,
includes most exercise programs prescribed by well meaning
folks without back problems.)
Bottom line: You don't have to look forward to a life of
this crap, you do have to find a really good specialist to
deal with it.
Jenny
******
Tom...
It sounds like it might be sciatica.
Here are the symptoms:
Sciatica refers to pain that begins in the hip and buttocks
and continues all the way down the leg. This condition is
often accompanied by low back pain, which can be more or
less severe than the leg pain.
If you Google Sciatica... you'll find a lot of info.
Jennifer
******
Thomas,
The way my sciatic nerve pain works when it flares up, it
often hurts only when I lie down. The path of the pain goes
down the butt through the knee cap and down the leg. At
differing times I've had numbness on the outside of my leg
and foot and, from the damage to another disc, at
the tip of the toe. Sometimes it has felt as if some evil
elf was hammering inside my knee cap. Sometimes it is a dull
ache down the nerve, sometimes there are "demon fingers"
running up and down the nerve. Sometimes it burns. Sometimes
it just hurts like hell.
The tricky thing about disc-origin nerve pain is that it can
masquerade as so many other things. It has gotten to where I
assume EVERYTHING that hurts below the waist is some weird
nerve effect, which occasionally makes me miss the fact that
I've actually got some local strain or pain.
In fact, though I know intellectually that it is my spine
that is damaged, I have NEVER felt any actual back pain
since rupturing the discs. I am told that the closer the
pain is to the spine, the better off you are as far as
healing goes, BTW. When all I had was knee and foot pain,
that was not a good sign. The recent move to the butt/hip
area is supposedly an improvement.
Jenny
******
Thomas,
If your pain is from the sciatic nerve, you should be sure
to find out exactly what is going on before resuming an
exercise program that might put more pressure on the injury.
I have found that many exercises are out of the question for
me. With back injury, you don't "work through the pain" you
"respect the injury".
I've been to a couple physical therapists and they all
cautioned me that if something worsens the pain I should NOT
do it even if it is on the list of exercises supposedly good
for backs. Each injury is different.
The one exercise that seems to be extremely good for backs
is walking, and you will never go wrong with brisk walking
while you are waiting to see what is going on.
In my own case, I found that as little as 20 minutes on an
eliptical trainer was all it took to sign me up for many
weeks of unrelenting pain. Bicycling caused me problems too.
Eventually I accepted that pushing my limits did not work
and that I'd have to stick with walking.
Jenny
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Pompeii, Amalfi, Bari
Priscilla H. Ballou
Jackie Patti <jacki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And yeah, it's largely why I connected with my therapist, cause he was
> pretty twisted too. ;) I could tell him jokes like thinking it'd be
> kewl if there were drive-through suicide parlors, though of course,
> there'd have to be a used car lot next store else the cars would pile
> up. We didn't have to have a long-drawn out conversation about what
> such a joke "really meant," he "got" that it was blowing off steam. And
> he saved up all his best suicide jokes for me too. I bet no one would
> *ever* use a transcript of any of our sessions as an example for
> teaching therapists. :)
LOL! I think I like you and your therapist. Mine's kinda odd, but I'm
not sure he'd go so far as suicide jokes.
Priscilla, kinda odd herself
Gantlet
"Alan S" <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> To you, Tom and Kurt.
>
> Enough with the innuendo and slurs. You seem to think that
> constant repetition of the lie makes it true.
>
> Names with specific examples of posts where that has been
> said please.
to find out how full of shit you are all any newbie has to do is
google this group for
"ADA Diet" or "low Fat diet"
anyway i dont have to waste my time with google. I will continue to point
it out when it is said again in the future.
here is my example. that was only one such post to myself.
i have no need to look for more at this time.
"you would
rather die than miss a post about yourself. Oh, that's right you are
gonna die anyway. Hope the ADA pay for your funeral. "
it was said to me because i would not give up my dietitians diet advice for
strangers in a newsgroup. once i was told that my doctors were behind the
times I looked into who is saying what. one of the places i went to was the
ADA web site. and it told me that my doctors were following the leading
diabetic organizations advice.
--
Tom
Cheri
good thing. I do a lot of reining in, but I don't have to with my best
gal friend. :-)
--
Cheri
Jackie Patti wrote in message
<12mmnlv...@corp.supernews.com>...
Gantlet
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:12mmnt9...@news.supernews.com...
please understand i am not saying i am suprised at your dishonesty regarding
Kurt. I never bothered learning how to do the tiny link thing
and the regular link was to long to work but here it is maybe it does work.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3AAlt.support.diabetes+author%3AKurt&start=1400&sa=N&scoring=d&num=100&hl=en&lr=&as_drrb=q&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=27&as_maxm=11&as_maxy=2006&safe=off&
i did google kurt in this group, sorted by date and went to the page to
show Kurts beginings. in the begining all was good with Kurt after a while
those in here didnt really insult him that much but gave me hell. when i
stopped posting for a few months they gave him hell.. because he was now
alone and i was not here to pick on. anyway kurt is a good man and did not
insult until insulted.
--
Tom
rk
3yrs back... I don't have to continue to chew my
cabbage!
--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
"Alan S" <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:g3nmm291nht03cho7...@4ax.com...
: On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:52:31 GMT, "rk"
rk
as the only way to go. I've voiced this before many
moons ago.. prior to thankfully someone leaving that
was a huge contributor to this uprise and disruption
in this group when "she" arrived a few years back..
Wouldn't you like it to go back to the way things were
even 5yrs ago? I certainly would.. unfortunately we
can't when one posts something that others don't like
and continue to attack instead of agree to disagree.
--
Reisa, T1, Animas IR1250 Pumper
DX-5/00 ASD-7/00
A1C: 6.2% (8/24/06)
Daily CHO: 150-200gm
TDD: 34-38u
"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
news:w7KdnVMbmaFI1vbY...@inreach.com...
: Nobody ever said you did say that LC was the only way to go Reisa, and
:
:
Kurt
Alan S wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2006 10:13:30 -0800, "Kurt"
> <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Cheap shot. There are others who feel the exact same way I do, perhaps
> >not as vocal.
>
> Who, apart from Tom and rk? In fact, to say that rk feels
> the same as you is unfair, and I withdraw it unless she
> confirms it. So who, apart from Tom, feels that it's
> necessary for you to jump on every single newby T2 intro
> thread to warn them of the evil low-carbers and net-doctors
> who are about to ravage them?
Enough with the innuendo and slurs. You seem to think that
constant repetition of the lie makes it true.
Names with specific examples of posts where that has been
said please.
Specifically where I have jumped on every single newby T2 intro
thread...
There are some where I will voice my warning to listen to their doctor
and beware of advice given by strangers. You are quite the spin doctor
with making it sound that I jump on every single thread and ban others
from stating their opinions. You just want to squelch my right to warn
someone of what I think might be dangerous, which is that trying to
control their diabetes without working with a medical team that can
evaluate their specific needs.
> A vote folks.
>
> All in favour of Kurt's actions - say "aye"
Are you serious, Alan? Taking a vote? What is the vote for actually?
To terminate my right to voice my opinion? To see who agrees with you?
You have got to be kidding. Your school of thought outnumbers me more
than 10 to 1. So why do you worry so much about me telling a newbie my
opinion on things. Am I that overpowering that it completely erases
all the things you say? Give me a break.
You accuse me of "ruining this newsgroup". Because I warn people that
they need to listen to their doctor, or find a new doctor if they are
not getting satisfactory results? Because I say the ADA is an
organization worth listening to? That one needs to look beyond what
they read on the internet and in newsgroups and to a professional
before they determine what exactly the best course of action for them
is?
And speaking of ruining things, thanks for being part of the mob that
drove Dr. Biggs away from providing some good diabetes information from
a professional. No wonder you dislike doctors so much, you see
yourself as his peer and challenged most of what he said just because
YOU don't agree with it. So far now it's the ADA, Joslin, Dr. Biggs and
several other authorities who tell you that you're wrong. How many
more will it take before maybe you realize the problem is the man in
the mirror.
I'm really tired of your sniping and false accusations and holier than
thou know it all attitude. Your need for control is apparent in
everything you write, from the interrogation of every newbie who comes
in here, to the changing of thread titles to suit your agenda. This
will be my last post to you for a long while. You've finally succeeded
in getting on my nerves. Same goes to your self righteous sister in
Australia. And one last thing before I go. Both of you really
shouldn't be commenting on anything to do with diabetes in the United
States because you don't have the experience with it.
Seacrest out!!!
Kurt
Kurt
Cheri wrote:
>As we all grow
> and learn more about our disease, or are rediagnosed, we change our
> ideas or our game plan...especially if something isn't working for us,
> but LC is a good starting point IMO and should always be recommended as
> an option, even if it doesn't turn out to be the best option for some.
I think that is an excellent way to say it and you've done it very
succintly. It's all about the options.
Thanks.
Best,
Kurt
Kurt
rk wrote:
> Guess I should specify so we're all on the same page with what my
> view is about.
>
> YES, even NOW I do advocate lower carbs for diabetics if that is what
> works for them. My problem which I stand with Kurt and Tom is that
> there are some in here that make direct statements or what a few of
> us call "armchair doctors" are posting stating that there is NO other way
> for diabetics that ALL diabetics must be on low carb to maintain their
> gone the higher carb route. There are still some days that I can eat
> 250-300gm and not have a problem then there are days that if I eat
> over 100gm I have issues. It's not up to anyone in here to state this
> or that.. What Kurt and Tom suggest is that you work it out with your
> doctor for what works best for you.
Why can't a few others in here see that? It really is about, or should
be, sharing experiences and methods and letting the newbie learn from
everybody and use a doctor to filter that learning through. I almost
always suggest that someone work with their doctor, preferably an endo,
when learning how to control their diabetes. This is a serious disease
folks and not something you can treat JUST by reading a book or picking
up scattershot advice from others.
>Granted it's a two-fold problem
> when you have an idiot for a doctor and you need to do your own
> research. But in the end, for me, it's 99% of the way others make
> statements, not opinions or suggestions but statements. And no Cheri,
> you've never done this.. I've only seen you state, "this is what works
> for me" which is what others should put as well but sadly they don't
> which is what gets the fights started.
Cheri is not the problem, but an example we should all follow.
Best,
Kurt
Kurt
rk wrote:
> I've put up before.. go do a google search about
> 3yrs back... I don't have to continue to chew my
> cabbage!
LOL. Good point. I just read through a few of my posts from today and
last night and now even I'm getting tired of my cabbage!
In other words, I've said what I wanted to say over and over. Time to
move on to other threads and other issues and let this thing die down
for a while.
Best,
Kurt
Kurt
Thanks, Tom. It's amazing that google keeps billions of posts from
everybody for so long. And we don't have to pay a storage fee! I do
remember first coming here and getting into it with a few people whom I
considered to be extremists. I think we all have personal things that
push our buttons and when it comes to getting in a squabble with
someone it goes without saying that I'm not shy. There are times when
I do regret what I post to some people and other times proud of myself
for writing a really nasty response and then hitting the delete key
instead of send. Should do it more often. Life is too short and anger
is not good for the body.
There are a lot of insults that fly in this newsgroup but as you have
pointed out before, and you are correct, it only becomes a major
problem when you or I make them. There is never much moral outrage
when someone takes cheap shots at us, except from Cheri and rk.
Best,
Kurt
Cheri
of people here and there. He enjoys "debating" with willbill, big nascar
fan, and many others. He was enjoying the exchanges, if only to laugh at
his own sarcastic remarks and witticisms. Nobody drove him away, and
believe me, he'll be back. LOL
--
Cheri
Kurt wrote in message
Cheri
best WOE, or whatever, but I hate it when it becomes a personal attack
against the poster. I've been guilty of it myself, and I'm not proud of
it either. I know you're a very generous and giving person IRL, as are
many others in the group, and I agree with you that it would be nice if
we could all disagree without beating each other up. I don't think
that's going to happen today though. :-)
--
Cheri
Cheri
but he never actually answers questions from the other side of the
"debates." Remember a few months ago when he was jerking BNF around? He
was enjoying every minute of it. LOL
--
Cheri
Susan wrote in message <4t1ftgF...@mid.individual.net>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Cheri wrote:
>> Truthfully Kurt, the good doctor gets into heated "debates" with a
lot
>> of people here and there. He enjoys "debating" with willbill, big
nascar
>> fan, and many others. He was enjoying the exchanges, if only to laugh
at
>> his own sarcastic remarks and witticisms. Nobody drove him away, and
>> believe me, he'll be back. LOL
>
>He routinely leaves that group for months at a time, on his own
>volition, as he did just now.
>
>He doesn't actually debate, that would be giving him credit for
actually
>reading what others have said and formulating responsive replies.
>
>Susan
Alan S
<kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This will be my last post to you for a long while.
Maybe I will convert. There is a god.
Alan S
<gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:
>I don't have a problem at all with people disagreeing with posts, or the
>best WOE, or whatever, but I hate it when it becomes a personal attack
>against the poster. I've been guilty of it myself, and I'm not proud of
>it either. I know you're a very generous and giving person IRL, as are
>many others in the group, and I agree with you that it would be nice if
>we could all disagree without beating each other up. I don't think
>that's going to happen today though. :-)
>
>--
>Cheri
I dislike it even more when people make general non-specific
slurs without naming names. Then, those attacked can defend.
But a sly or misleading "beware" demeans the whole group.
Alan S
You brought it up Tom. Now post the reply you made. If you
dare to repeat it.
Alan S
<p_haha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I've put up before.. go do a google search about
>3yrs back... I don't have to continue to chew my
>cabbage!
You really think that's a reasonable answer? We're talking
about now, not 3 yrs back.
Put up or shut up.
Alan, T2, Australia.
Alan S
<kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pathetic. The last of the trio - and not a single example
from any.
Put up or shut up.
Alan, T2, Australia.
Alan S
<jacki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Cheri wrote:
>> Exactly. Some people really don't understand the security it gives one
>> to know they could if they wanted to, and some people really don't
>> understand dark humor. It makes them uncomfortable. Fortunately, my best
>> friend of 42 years has dark humor too, and she always understands it,
>> even when DH doesn't.
>
>I greatly limit expressing my humor, because it *is* offensive as all
>hell. The more serious and painful something is, the more likely I am
>to think terribly inappropriate thoughts. For me, it is almost a
>*necessity* to my mental health to think "wrong" things about something
>serious - it takes some of the pain away. It's a pressure valve.
>
>But... most people don't "get" that and find it offensive, so I don't
>often do it. So when I do have someone I can share my sick jokes with,
>it's very kewl.
>
>When my husband was a teenager, if his mom went away for the weekend, he
>and his siblings fought over who got her car. Years later, when his mom
>sat them down to tell them her cancer had returned and metastasized to
>her brain and she was going to die, he yelped, "I get the car!"
>
>His mom wanted "Comfortably Numb" played at her funeral. His whole
>family is sick and twisted like that. His humor is part of what
>originally attracted me to him and part of why I so enjoy my inlaws.
>They're all a bunch of sick puppies. ;)
>
>I expect I'd be massively flamed if I posted half the stuff I said to my
>husband and friends as we watched 9/11 unfold on TV. I am really awful!
> The more something hurts, the more inappropriate I get.
>
>And yeah, it's largely why I connected with my therapist, cause he was
>pretty twisted too. ;) I could tell him jokes like thinking it'd be
>kewl if there were drive-through suicide parlors, though of course,
>there'd have to be a used car lot next store else the cars would pile
>up. We didn't have to have a long-drawn out conversation about what
>such a joke "really meant," he "got" that it was blowing off steam. And
>he saved up all his best suicide jokes for me too. I bet no one would
>*ever* use a transcript of any of our sessions as an example for
>teaching therapists. :)
Read the Annette thread. I think you'll appreciate her
veterinarian story.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin
Just as dopamine deficiency is not the cause of Parkinson's disease,
serotonin deficiency is not the cause of either depression, anxiety, or
panic.
Being poor in spirit causes depression, anxiety, and panic.
Truth is simple.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating (unless you unwisely choose
to curse HIM as did psychologist Sigmund Freud who died in excruciating
pain, overwhelming anxiety and teeth-gnashing panic) dear neighbor
Kutchie whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love