Fasting between meals and at night stabilzes weight

[W. Baker]

Here is an interesting new study on mice that indicates that even eating a
high fat diet can lead to stabile weight if fasting between meals and
overnight are practiced. This was not directed to diabetics, put to
preventing obesity and the developement of the disease. I wonder how it
would work with those of us in decent control of our disease, but who are
trying to either lose weight or hold it stabile. It is something that
would interest me as a method as I do look to the fridge rather too often
during the day as well as the evening. Of course, we may not respond as
those mice did. Protein consumptions seems to also be important for
satiety enabling us to maintain those no-snacking practices.

My personal thought is that for people with unstabile or erratic bg levels
this might well not be indicated, but for those who, in general, maintain
decent levels it might well work if we can resist those temptations. I
would not look to high carb or high fat eating to try this, but, as I try
to maintain a moderate carb(40-100grs) and moderatish fat(no level, but
care) this might be something to try.

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/articles/53-diabetes-news/12840-how-extended-fasting-timed-meals-fight-obesity

I am willing to try to see if I can succeed as well as a mouse:-)

Wendy

[ra...@val.com]

> http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/articles/53-diabetes-news/12840-how-...

>
> I am willing to try to see if I can succeed as well as a mouse:-)
>
> Wendy

Wendy,

Thanks for posting this. I'd been reading the fall out from this study
for about a week and it was exciting as this partially mimics the
procedure I've been using with very good results.

Here's a link to to more discussion: http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=560
Here's the abstract and diagram: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/retrieve/pii/S1550413112001891

Note the diagram and the number of metrics that improve - Better
glucose, more weight loss, liver works better, increased leptin
sensitivity and even better motor function! It also stabilized
circadian cycles.

Gys uses a more extreme version of these same ideas for years and has
achieved very impressive results.

Thanks
Randy

[W. Baker]

ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:

: On May 26, 1:37?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: > Here is an interesting new study on mice that indicates that even eating a

: > high fat diet can lead to ?stabile weight if fasting between meals and
: > overnight are practiced. ?This was not directed to diabetics, put to
: > preventing obesity and the developement of the disease. ?I wonder how it

: > would work with those of us in decent control of our disease, but who are

: > trying to either lose weight or hold it stabile. ?It is something that

: > would interest me as a method as I do look to the fridge rather too often

: > during the day as well as the evening. ?Of course, we may not respond as
: > those mice did. ?Protein consumptions seems to also be important for

: > satiety enabling us to maintain those no-snacking practices.
: >
: > My personal thought is that for people with unstabile or erratic bg levels

: > this might well not be indicated, but for those who, in general, ?maintain
: > decent levels it might well work if we can resist those temptations. ?I
: > would not look to high carb or ?high fat eating to try this, but, as I try

: > to maintain a moderate carb(40-100grs) and moderatish fat(no level, but
: > care) this might be something to try.
: >
: > http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/articles/53-diabetes-news/12840-how-...
: >
: > I am willing to try to see if I can succeed as well as a mouse:-)
: >
: > Wendy

: Wendy,

: Thanks for posting this. I'd been reading the fall out from this study
: for about a week and it was exciting as this partially mimics the
: procedure I've been using with very good results.

: Here's a link to to more discussion: http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=560
: Here's the abstract and diagram: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/retrieve/pii/S1550413112001891

: Note the diagram and the number of metrics that improve - Better
: glucose, more weight loss, liver works better, increased leptin
: sensitivity and even better motor function! It also stabilized
: circadian cycles.

: Gys uses a more extreme version of these same ideas for years and has
: achieved very impressive results.

thanks for the links, I may actualy go read them:-) what interested me ws
that it seemed to improve the amount of brown fat, that happy substance:-)
This diet should not be terribly difficult to follow as it even supports a
ahigher fat intke, which is what Ifind harder to reduce folloeing a lower
carb diet. the bi thing will be either stress or bored eating which can
sometimes overtake me even taking the place of dinner if it hits me i the
late afternoon. Now if I don't buy much hard or sliced cheese which I am
tryng to reduce my intake of I might be quite sucessful on such a diet.
If it works, I will sure let everyone know. If it doesn't because of the
temptation of snacks I, probably won't say:-)

: Thanks : Randy

Wendy

[W. Baker]

ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:

: On May 26, 1:37?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: > Here is an interesting new study on mice that indicates that even eating a

: Here's a link to to more discussion: http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=560

: Here's the abstract and diagram: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/retrieve/pii/S1550413112001891

: Thanks
: Randy

Randy,

Neither of the links work. the y saidd page not found. They claim a
recent reorganization. Cna you find the new links please?

Wendy

[Maya Zuiderweg]

W. Baker stelde de volgende uitleg voor :

Wendy, it sure works for me. I'd never have been doing this "diet" but
for colon-troubles, i.e. I have to take Movicolon before every meal.
As Ive learnt over some years that Movicolon works best for me when
taken on an empty (-enough) stomach, _just_ before meals my conclusion
was that I never want to snack in between these meals.
Later in the evening though, I take no meal + no Movicolon, so I can
snack. But I dont.
Reason: I take no insulin before bed. Keeping my bg's at night at about
5.5 - 6.5 mmol/L is more important to me than snack.
Maya


>
>> Thanks : Randy
>
> Wendy

[ra...@val.com]

Hey Wendy,

My current schedule differs a bit from the one used in the study.

My 16 hour fast is after dinner to a latter lunch. I find that much
easier and better for socializing.

There have been a bunch of variants of this method available.

One that's a little more extreme is called fast- five, http://www.fast-5.com/.
Started by a Doctor that wrote a small e-book available at no charge.

Another is called ADF, also started by physicians. This one has
generated some published studies, but I find it difficult.
See: http://www.johnsonupdaydowndaydiet.com/html/diet-landing.html.

Another similar method that's been shown to be very effective is
described here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19577377
I've got the full paper of this one if any is interested. What's
different about this one is that exercise is done when fasting and
atleast 4 hours or more before eating. My meter is generally happy
when I do this.

My view is that that high fat portion of the diet is not crucial to
the program, but the daily 16 hour fast is. They used a high fat diet
because most rodent species have a hard time with high fat diets. They
wanted to see if they the rats could tolerate a high fats diet better
when eaten less frequently.

Regards
Randy

[ra...@val.com]

Wendy,

Both links were fine here:

I converted them to tiny urls. Let me know if this doesn't work.

http://tinyurl.com/bqoeppp
http://tinyurl.com/d7r7van

Thanks
Randy

[W. Baker]

ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:

: On May 26, 4:17?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: > ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:
: >

: >
: > thanks for the links, I may actualy go read them:-) ?what interested me ws

: > that it seemed to improve the amount of brown fat, that happy substance:-)
: > This diet should not be terribly difficult to follow as it even supports a
: > ahigher fat intke, which is what Ifind harder to reduce folloeing a lower

: > carb diet. ?the bi thing will be either stress or bored eating which can

: > sometimes overtake me even taking the place of dinner if it hits me i the

: > late afternoon. ? Now if I don't buy much hard or sliced cheese which I am
: > tryng to reduce my intake of I might be quite sucessful on such ?a diet.
: > If it works, I will sure let everyone know. ?If it doesn't because of the

I don't see doing anyting qute as limiting as sosme of your suggestions,
but eaating 2 or three meals a day, depending on whether have to get up
in the morning or can sleep in leading to a more brunch like meal. On
days that I get up with the alarm, 3-4 in the winter and 1-2 in the
summer(no twice a week class). When I have a brunch day, I can easily be
fating up to 16 houres, but definitely at least 14. On the alarm days it
would be no more than 12-14. I don't see rigidily changing my whole life
fot this plan, nor do I see the necessity for heating high fat, just kind
of moderate, with emphasis on non-saturated. I plan to continue my regular
carb amounts which vary from day to day, but alwasy remain moderate except
fo the occasional breakdown, like finding a store of backery cookies as I
did a few weeks ago and stuffing myself with them, but then feeling so
stuffed that I eliminated lunch tha day so, although I had a nasty, high
bg after that binge, I was ok both on weight and bgs the following
morning. This is NOT a frequent event! I am not doing a research project
but will be trying this to see if i can live my normal life and combine it
with this ind of program set for ordinary living. At 76 with and A1c of
<6, I see no reason to completely tie myself in knots.

One factor I see is that this may well keep my carbs on the lower sode pm
mu range, as I often pick up carbs in my snacks which are spread out so
the 15 or so grams I eat is not a problem by the next eal. don't
think I will try to just add carbs to the meals, particularly lunch and
dinner(breakfast is usually pretty good), but I might let myself have a
small potato more often that I do now or somethig like that, as long as I
can keep my pps in good order.

Were I to be too rigid in my efforts, like your setting up for a 16 hour
fast every day, I fear that it would become too onerous for me to stay on,
ergo I would drop the whole thing. One has to adjust some things to the
world you live in in order to be albe to stick with it.

Sorry -I accidentally erased the parts I was tryig to keep in my reply
about Randy's strick 16 hour fast per day.

Wendy

[ra...@val.com]

On May 26, 9:12 pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
> ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:
>
> : On May 26, 4:17?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
> : > ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:
> : >
> : >
> : > thanks for the links, I may actualy go read them:-) ?what interested me ws
> : > that it seemed to improve the amount of brown fat, that happy substance:-)
> : > This diet should not be terribly difficult to follow as it even supports a
> : > ahigher fat intke, which is what Ifind harder to reduce folloeing a lower
> : > carb diet. ?the bi thing will be either stress or bored eating which can
> : > sometimes overtake me even taking the place of dinner if it hits me i the
> : > late afternoon. ? Now if I don't buy much hard or sliced cheese which I am
> : > tryng to reduce my intake of I might be quite sucessful on such ?a diet.
> : > If it works, I will sure let everyone know. ?If it doesn't because of the
> : > temptation of snacks I, probably won't say:-)
> : >
> : > : Thanks : Randy
> : >
> : > Wendy
>
> : Hey Wendy,
>
> : My current schedule differs a bit from the one used in the study.
>
> : My 16 hour fast is after dinner to a latter lunch. I find that much
> : easier and better for socializing.
>
> : There have been a bunch of variants of this method available.
>

> : One that's a little more extreme is called fast- five,http://www.fast-5.com/.

We are all, ultimately, an experiment of one.
What ever works for You is what counts.

I just found this interesting because it dove tails with what I've
been doing.

Regards
Randy

[None Given]

On Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:12:46 PM UTC-7, W. Baker wrote:

A morning run prior to the first breakfast can work really well provided
the run is a major energetic high point of the day. First meal near
noon. But slap in work full or part days, it gets harder. Then
a late run and an empty stomach seem to work. Granted, the metric I am
watching are my times and not my BG (at least lately).

10 miles run today plus a view from a high point................Trig

[None Given]

The first link suggests to me why the liking of certain body builders
towards BCAA's. Isn't whey protein pretty high in BCAA's? This may
explain why certain weight loss diet(s) have subjects omit dairy products.

Trig

[GysdeJongh]

W. Baker wrote:
> ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:
>> On May 26, 1:37?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Here is an interesting new study on mice that indicates that even
>>> eating a
>
>> Here's a link to to more discussion:
>> http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=560
>> Here's the abstract and diagram:
>> http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/retrieve/pii/S1550413112001891

> Neither of the links work. the y saidd page not found. They claim a
> recent reorganization. Cna you find the new links please?

Hi Wendy,
for me both links randy provided work (?) Do you have a connection to Pubmed
? Than you can read the abstract and maybe use the link on that page to go
to Cell (?)

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22608008?dopt=Citation>

Cell Metab. 2012 May 16.
Time-Restricted Feeding without Reducing Caloric Intake Prevents Metabolic
Diseases in Mice Fed a High-Fat Diet.
PMID: 22608008

I do not have your or Ozgirls discipline, for me not eating is much more
easier than eating tiny bits all day.

Gys

[GysdeJongh]

Hi Randy and thank you very much for the interesting links :)

Over the years I found something that works for me : not eating is easier
than eating a little bit all day. I have tried eveything advocated here and
on the web.

"Don't skip breakfast it's the most important meal of the day " If I eat
breakfast it will start a terrible cycle of hunger and eating for the rest
of the day. If I start moving in stead of eating the hunger disappears. So
my day starts by moving. Not by eating.

I like the paleo hunter/gatherer way. I guess they could eat what they
happened to kill or find. Which makes a lot of meals or planned meals in
those days not very logical. I don't seee the hunter/gathere mother tell her
kid :"Eat your breakfast" , more likely : "Come out of your bed and go find
your breakfast".

"Drink lots of water" has no effect on me other than lots of peeing.

"Eat lots of protein/fat, it will enhance satiety" If I start eating salmon
or walnuts the effect is just the same : I keep eating till the
salmon/walnuts start coming out of my nose because the pressure in my stomag
is a few hundred Psi. I will wake up in the middle of the night with a lot
of heartburn.

I eat only 1 simple meal per day. Takes about 30min to cook and 30min to
eat. I never snack. Simple because it then will not start the cravings, is
easy to prepare fresh and will put my mind in "food mode" for only about 1
hour each day.

The time between the intake of any solid food is thus 23 hours. I add what I
call fasting days. I live on water and the time between the intake of any
solid food is than thus at least 47 hours. My record is a week.

I discovered that I'm living in a body that desparately wants a BMI of a
rhino. I'm convinced that my body wants something that is bad for it's
health. So I use my cortex for what evolution designed it for : inhibit
unhealthy urges from the beast inside me.

This also has the surprising effect on me that I can look in total
admiration to bodies that use a bit of food to do amazing things. I could do
somewhat similar things 20 years ago, but nolonger. This woman makes work of
art work just from the empty space around her. It proves the vacuum quantum
theory Imo :)

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pfo-8z86x80>

I couls easily be wrong of course. If a species is restricted by it's
surroundings than evolution will let it shrink. Like the mini humans and
elephants on small islands.

If there is an unrestricted amount of food, evolution increases the mass of
the species. It seems good to be large for many species. Human females are
reproductive at a much younger age than a few hundred years ago. Human
beings maybe on their way to rhino's in their evolution and the unadapted
will die in the process : "Nothing in biology makes sense unlike in the
light of evolution" ( Dobzhansky ) "Adapt or Die" ( By PW Botha, From his
speech to parliament, October 1979 and an old friend

<http://repository.ubn.ru.nl/bitstream/2066/19099/1/19099_cellstint.pdf>


The article Weny posted is from a group interested in circadian clocks. The
things that regulate the 24-hour cycle of our metabolism.

Another theory you will find now and then is that we are not well adopted to
the disruption of our circadian cycle by the always present electric light,
by the jobs in our 24-h economy, by the constant temperature of our air
conditioned houses etc, etc.

The obese people tend also to be the people with the wrong version of their
clock genes. There are experiments showing that an erratic sleeping pattern
tends to make you obese.

Thx again
Gys

Nature. 2012 Mar 29;485(7396):123-7. doi: 10.1038/nature11048.
Regulation of circadian behaviour and metabolism by REV-ERB-α and REV-ERB-β.
PMID: 22460952

[W. Baker]

ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:

: On May 26, 4:24?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: > ra...@val.com <ra...@val.com> wrote:
: >
: > : On May 26, 1:37?pm, "W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
: > : > Here is an interesting new study on mice that indicates that even eating a
: >
: > : Here's a link to to more discussion:http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=560
: > : Here's the abstract and diagram:http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/retrieve/pii/S1550413112001891
: >
: > : Thanks
: > : Randy
: >
: > Randy,
: >

: > Neither of the links work. ?the y saidd page not found. ?They claim a
: > recent reorganization. ?Cna you find the new links ?please?
: >
: > Wendy

: Wendy,

: Both links were fine here:

: I converted them to tiny urls. Let me know if this doesn't work.

: http://tinyurl.com/bqoeppp
: http://tinyurl.com/d7r7van

: Thanks
: Randy

Thanks, these worked just fine.

Wendy

[W. Baker]

GysdeJongh <JonghSevenHundredElevenAtPlanet.nl> wrote:

As I wrote, I have no intention to ony eat tiney bits all day, but either
2 or 3 reasonably substantial meals per day. Just nothing in
between(unless i break down n a particular day:-) For example, last
night's dinner was a substantial vry lean shoulder steak(kind of tough,
but very beefy tasting), a large serving of brussles sprouts and a salad
of lettuce, 1 medium toamato, 1/2 largish red pepper dressed with olive
oil, wine and cider vinegar, salt adn pepper and oregono. boy, did I feel
full after that. If I had had some fruit in the house Iwouldhave had a
piece or some berries, etc. Not what icalla tiny meal!.

As they say, Different stroke for different folks:-)

Wendy

[jay]

> I eat only 1 simple meal per day. Takes about 30min to cook and 30min to

> eat...

A 30 min meal that lasts you until the next day!!!
What exactly do you prepare and eat? Thx

[GysdeJongh]

what is your favorite physical activity jay ? What does it do with your
blood glucose ?

Gys

[jay]

> > > I eat only 1 simple meal per day.

> > > Takes about 30min to cook and 30 min to eat...

>
> > A 30 min meal that lasts you until the next day!!!
> > What exactly do you prepare and eat? Thx
>
> what is your favorite physical activity jay ?
> What does it do with your blood glucose ?

My most frequent physical activity is a 1 to 2 mile walk, once or
twice a day. Sometimes I will substitute the walk with stretching
exercises.I am trying out fast-5, typically eating for several hours
in the evening. I was wondering how you are able to condense the
eating period to just 30 minutes.

[Don Roberto]

ANYTHING, as long as it's not more than 2 lbs.
For details, consult Dr. Chung

[Don Roberto]

What does your response have to do with his question?
PAY ATTENTION!

Don Roberto

[GysdeJongh]

= Put 0.5 l water in a large pan
= Set on a high fire
= Wait till the water boils
= Add 200g Aspergus, start the stopwatch
= At 8min add 150 beans
= At 12min add 300g broccoli
= At 16min get the pan from the fire and drain the water in a large mug.
About 0.2 l left. Makes s nice drink

= Put a wok on the fire
= Add onions, mushrooms, turmeric, garlic, ginger, soy, chili
= Wok about 2 min till ready
= Add the boiled vegetables
= Add Basil
= Mix everything in the wok
= Add a tin of Black Beans

Put everthing on a large plate, sit in the garden and watch the birds.

Is what I did yesterday. No mysteries, very low-tech. If you lived next door
we could go for a walk and you would be welcome to join the meal.

My most frequent physical activity is a ride on my bike, which is less
painful for me than walking

Gys

[GysdeJongh]

Imo the solution to the metabolic syndrome is moving. I don't think that if
you got an ailment by eating too much, eating something else will cure it.
Imo you should eat less, not something else.

Most of my contributions here are on moving

[Don Roberto]

That's all very nice, BUT the man asked you about what exactly do you
prepare and eat" when you eat that "1 simple meal per day" _you_ mentioned.

Don Roberto

[Don Roberto]

YOU DID IT!
YOU ANSWERED HIS QUESTION!!
I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT!

+1

Don Roberto

[Don Roberto]

On 5/30/2012 11:48 PM, GysdeJongh wrote:

Seems to add up to about 2 lb.
Definitely a nutritious interpretation of the 2PD OMER.
Dr. Chung must be proud of you.

Don Roberto

[jay]

> tin of Black Beans, 150g dry? beans,
> 200g asparagus, 300g broccoli
> onions, mushrooms, turmeric, garlic, ginger, soy, chili, basil, [oil]

> sit in the garden and watch the birds.

Sounds quite healthy :)