America's Waistline Expands and Costs Soar
The additional medical spending due to obesity is double previous estimates and exceeds even those of smoking...
U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them with floor models to better support obese patients. Cars are burning nearly a billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers weighed what they did in 1960. The Federal Transit Administration wants buses to be tested for the impact of heavier riders on steering and braking.
The nation's rising rate of obesity has been well-chronicled. But businesses, governments and individuals are only now coming to grips with the costs of those extra pounds, many of which are even greater than believed only a few years ago:
Many of those costs have dollar signs in front of them, such as the higher health insurance premiums everyone pays to cover those extra medical costs. Other changes, often cost-neutral, are coming to the built environment in the form of wider seats in public places from sports stadiums to bus stops.
The startling economic costs of obesity, often borne by the non-obese, could become the epidemic's second-hand smoke. Only when scientists discovered that nonsmokers were developing lung cancer and other diseases from breathing smoke-filled air did policymakers get serious about fighting the habit, in particular by establishing nonsmoking zones. The costs that smoking added to Medicaid also spurred action. Now, as economists put a price tag on sky-high body mass indexes (BMIs), policymakers as well as the private sector are mobilizing to find solutions to the obesity epidemic.
The U.S. health care reform law of 2010 allows employers to charge obese workers 30% to 50% more for health insurance if they decline to participate in a qualified wellness program.
Such measures do not sit well with all obese Americans. Advocacy groups formed to "end size discrimination" argue that it is possible to be healthy "at every size," taking issue with the findings that obesity necessarily comes with added medical costs.
The percentage of Americans who are obese (with a BMI of 30 or higher) has tripled since 1960, to 34%, while the incidence of extreme or "morbid" obesity (BMI above 40) has risen sixfold, to 6%.
The very obese lose one month of productive work per year, costing employers an average of $3,792 per very obese male worker and $3,037 per female. Total annual cost of presenteeism due to obesity: $30 billion.
> America's Waistline Expands and Costs Soar
> The additional medical spending due to obesity is double previous
> estimates and exceeds even those of smoking...
> U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them
> with floor models to better support obese patients. Cars are burning
> nearly a billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers
> weighed what they did in 1960. The Federal Transit Administration wants
> buses to be tested for the impact of heavier riders on steering and
> braking.
> The nation's rising rate of obesity has been well-chronicled. But
> businesses, governments and individuals are only now coming to grips
> with the costs of those extra pounds, many of which are even greater
> than believed only a few years ago:
> Many of those costs have dollar signs in front of them, such as the
> higher health insurance premiums everyone pays to cover those extra
> medical costs. Other changes, often cost-neutral, are coming to the
> built environment in the form of wider seats in public places from
> sports stadiums to bus stops.
> The startling economic costs of obesity, often borne by the non-obese,
> could become the epidemic's second-hand smoke. Only when scientists
> discovered that nonsmokers were developing lung cancer and other
> diseases from breathing smoke-filled air did policymakers get serious
> about fighting the habit, in particular by establishing nonsmoking
> zones. The costs that smoking added to Medicaid also spurred action.
> Now, as economists put a price tag on sky-high body mass indexes (BMIs),
> policymakers as well as the private sector are mobilizing to find
> solutions to the obesity epidemic.
> The U.S. health care reform law of 2010 allows employers to charge obese
> workers 30% to 50% more for health insurance if they decline to
> participate in a qualified wellness program.
> Such measures do not sit well with all obese Americans. Advocacy groups
> formed to "end size discrimination" argue that it is possible to be
> healthy "at every size," taking issue with the findings that obesity
> necessarily comes with added medical costs.
> The percentage of Americans who are obese (with a BMI of 30 or higher)
> has tripled since 1960, to 34%, while the incidence of extreme or
> "morbid" obesity (BMI above 40) has risen sixfold, to 6%.
> The very obese lose one month of productive work per year, costing
> employers an average of $3,792 per very obese male worker and $3,037 per
> female. Total annual cost of presenteeism due to obesity: $30 billion.
> America's Waistline Expands and Costs Soar
> The additional medical spending due to obesity is double previous
> estimates and exceeds even those of smoking...
> U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them
> with floor models to better support obese patients. Cars are burning
> nearly a billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers
> weighed what they did in 1960. The Federal Transit Administration wants
> buses to be tested for the impact of heavier riders on steering and
> braking.
> The nation's rising rate of obesity has been well-chronicled. But
> businesses, governments and individuals are only now coming to grips
> with the costs of those extra pounds, many of which are even greater
> than believed only a few years ago:
> Many of those costs have dollar signs in front of them, such as the
> higher health insurance premiums everyone pays to cover those extra
> medical costs. Other changes, often cost-neutral, are coming to the
> built environment in the form of wider seats in public places from
> sports stadiums to bus stops.
> The startling economic costs of obesity, often borne by the non-obese,
> could become the epidemic's second-hand smoke. Only when scientists
> discovered that nonsmokers were developing lung cancer and other
> diseases from breathing smoke-filled air did policymakers get serious
> about fighting the habit, in particular by establishing nonsmoking
> zones. The costs that smoking added to Medicaid also spurred action.
> Now, as economists put a price tag on sky-high body mass indexes (BMIs),
> policymakers as well as the private sector are mobilizing to find
> solutions to the obesity epidemic.
> The U.S. health care reform law of 2010 allows employers to charge obese
> workers 30% to 50% more for health insurance if they decline to
> participate in a qualified wellness program.
> Such measures do not sit well with all obese Americans. Advocacy groups
> formed to "end size discrimination" argue that it is possible to be
> healthy "at every size," taking issue with the findings that obesity
> necessarily comes with added medical costs.
> The percentage of Americans who are obese (with a BMI of 30 or higher)
> has tripled since 1960, to 34%, while the incidence of extreme or
> "morbid" obesity (BMI above 40) has risen sixfold, to 6%.
> The very obese lose one month of productive work per year, costing
> employers an average of $3,792 per very obese male worker and $3,037 per
> female. Total annual cost of presenteeism due to obesity: $30 billion.
Interesting observation on weight gain. I just spent 4 months in mainland china, NO ONE is overweight there!, that is NO ONE, and not just Han, Meow, Koreans, Mongols, Tibetans, H'mung, Hainanese, Turks, and thousands of other ethnic minorities who inhabit China . Expats from the US and Oz are heavier than Chinese, but all the Expats I talked to had lost weight while in China (except one TINY woman)
Chinese generally eat a high fat high sodium diet, and they eat BIG meals. going to a Chinese dinner is like going to my grandmothers. Stop eating for even a second, and someone will think you are STARVING and put more food on your plate.
They also have a very efficient transportation system in the cities, and none of the Chinese I saw walked as much as New Yorkers. They drive ELECTRIC bikes, so they didn't even peddle.
The ONE overweight Chinese woman I saw had just come from overseas. I guess I should note that, many young boys are overweight because they are the only young male in the family. When they start school, the weight comes right off. You see fat 3 year old boys, but NOT fat 6 year old boys.
This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and NONE of them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
> America's Waistline Expands and Costs Soar
> The additional medical spending due to obesity is double previous estimates
> and exceeds even those of smoking...
> U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them with
> floor models to better support obese patients. Cars are burning nearly a
> billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers weighed what they
> did in 1960. The Federal Transit Administration wants buses to be tested for
> the impact of heavier riders on steering and braking.
> The nation's rising rate of obesity has been well-chronicled. But
> businesses, governments and individuals are only now coming to grips with
> the costs of those extra pounds, many of which are even greater than
> believed only a few years ago:
> Many of those costs have dollar signs in front of them, such as the higher
> health insurance premiums everyone pays to cover those extra medical costs.
> Other changes, often cost-neutral, are coming to the built environment in
> the form of wider seats in public places from sports stadiums to bus stops.
> The startling economic costs of obesity, often borne by the non-obese, could
> become the epidemic's second-hand smoke. Only when scientists discovered
> that nonsmokers were developing lung cancer and other diseases from
> breathing smoke-filled air did policymakers get serious about fighting the
> habit, in particular by establishing nonsmoking zones. The costs that
> smoking added to Medicaid also spurred action. Now, as economists put a
> price tag on sky-high body mass indexes (BMIs), policymakers as well as the
> private sector are mobilizing to find solutions to the obesity epidemic.
> The U.S. health care reform law of 2010 allows employers to charge obese
> workers 30% to 50% more for health insurance if they decline to participate
> in a qualified wellness program.
> Such measures do not sit well with all obese Americans. Advocacy groups
> formed to "end size discrimination" argue that it is possible to be healthy
> "at every size," taking issue with the findings that obesity necessarily
> comes with added medical costs.
> The percentage of Americans who are obese (with a BMI of 30 or higher) has
> tripled since 1960, to 34%, while the incidence of extreme or "morbid"
> obesity (BMI above 40) has risen sixfold, to 6%.
> The very obese lose one month of productive work per year, costing employers
> an average of $3,792 per very obese male worker and $3,037 per female. Total
> annual cost of presenteeism due to obesity: $30 billion.
tedrosenberg <theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and
> NONE of them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
I suspect the overweight ones don't get out much, so they are
underrepresented in what a visitor sees. That is certainly
true in the US. I knew someone who's mother was so obese
they had to tear a wall out of the house when her time came.
As her husband commented "at least you know where she is."
A fair percentage of Americans (like maybe 20 percent) just
stay at home and watch TV. Others do their shopping for them.
> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
> On Sat, 05 May 2012 17:36:53 -0400
> tedrosenberg<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and
>> NONE of them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
> I suspect the overweight ones don't get out much, so they are
> underrepresented in what a visitor sees. That is certainly
> true in the US. I knew someone who's mother was so obese
> they had to tear a wall out of the house when her time came.
> As her husband commented "at least you know where she is."
> A fair percentage of Americans (like maybe 20 percent) just
> stay at home and watch TV. Others do their shopping for them.
>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
>> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
>> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
Sheesh - you sure don't know much, do you
stop quoting something you heard from someone somewhere and learn some facts
\
Your incredible bullcrap about "overweight people being hidden" because one or two morbidly obese people don't go out is only topped by the incredibly stupid assertion that 20% of Americans don't leave home.
Then you come out babbling idiocy about Chinese diet, which you haven't a CLUE about. They use PLENTY of dairy products, albeit not as much as many Americans, lots of wheat. What do you think most noodles are made of?, or all breads, or doughnuts. LOTS and LOTS of sugar. A typical desert may be a plate of sliced Tomatoes layered with sugar, or any of the fried cakes and doughnuts served everywhere.
Then there is FAT, foods are FRIES, deep fried, stir fried, pan fried, but usually FRIED. Bread is often served fried. I have had dishes I had to pour the excess fat off of.
and dumplings, sometimes steamed, but often fried, and ALWAYS made from wheat.
the Moslem areas have more roasted meats, And the less said about what southerners eat, the better, but I doubt YOU could tell the difference between various groups.
>> America's Waistline Expands and Costs Soar
>> The additional medical spending due to obesity is double previous
>> estimates and exceeds even those of smoking...
>> U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them
>> with floor models to better support obese patients. Cars are burning
>> nearly a billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers
>> weighed what they did in 1960. The Federal Transit Administration wants
>> buses to be tested for the impact of heavier riders on steering and
>> braking.
>> The nation's rising rate of obesity has been well-chronicled. But
>> businesses, governments and individuals are only now coming to grips
>> with the costs of those extra pounds, many of which are even greater
>> than believed only a few years ago:
>> Many of those costs have dollar signs in front of them, such as the
>> higher health insurance premiums everyone pays to cover those extra
>> medical costs. Other changes, often cost-neutral, are coming to the
>> built environment in the form of wider seats in public places from
>> sports stadiums to bus stops.
>> The startling economic costs of obesity, often borne by the non-obese,
>> could become the epidemic's second-hand smoke. Only when scientists
>> discovered that nonsmokers were developing lung cancer and other
>> diseases from breathing smoke-filled air did policymakers get serious
>> about fighting the habit, in particular by establishing nonsmoking
>> zones. The costs that smoking added to Medicaid also spurred action.
>> Now, as economists put a price tag on sky-high body mass indexes (BMIs),
>> policymakers as well as the private sector are mobilizing to find
>> solutions to the obesity epidemic.
>> The U.S. health care reform law of 2010 allows employers to charge obese
>> workers 30% to 50% more for health insurance if they decline to
>> participate in a qualified wellness program.
>> Such measures do not sit well with all obese Americans. Advocacy groups
>> formed to "end size discrimination" argue that it is possible to be
>> healthy "at every size," taking issue with the findings that obesity
>> necessarily comes with added medical costs.
>> The percentage of Americans who are obese (with a BMI of 30 or higher)
>> has tripled since 1960, to 34%, while the incidence of extreme or
>> "morbid" obesity (BMI above 40) has risen sixfold, to 6%.
>> The very obese lose one month of productive work per year, costing
>> employers an average of $3,792 per very obese male worker and $3,037 per
>> female. Total annual cost of presenteeism due to obesity: $30 billion.
> Interesting observation on weight gain. I just spent 4 months in mainland > china, NO ONE is overweight there!, that is NO ONE, and not just Han, > Meow, Koreans, Mongols, Tibetans, H'mung, Hainanese, Turks, and thousands > of other ethnic minorities who inhabit China . Expats from the US and Oz > are heavier than Chinese, but all the Expats I talked to had lost weight > while in China (except one TINY woman)
> Chinese generally eat a high fat high sodium diet, and they eat BIG meals. > going to a Chinese dinner is like going to my grandmothers. Stop eating > for even a second, and someone will think you are STARVING and put more > food on your plate.
> They also have a very efficient transportation system in the cities, and > none of the Chinese I saw walked as much as New Yorkers. They drive > ELECTRIC bikes, so they didn't even peddle.
> The ONE overweight Chinese woman I saw had just come from overseas. I > guess I should note that, many young boys are overweight because they are > the only young male in the family. When they start school, the weight > comes right off. You see fat 3 year old boys, but NOT fat 6 year old > boys.
> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and NONE of > them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge cane > sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and don't put it > in anything. That is a GUESS
Very interesting! I used to have a Chinese friend who ate tons of food! But it was never junk food. He was particularly fond of chicken. He would eat it in a variety of ways. If we went out for dinner he might order a chicken Caeser salad along with some pasta with chicken and sometimes even a plain chicken breast on the side. He was very thin, but he was young too.
> On Sat, 05 May 2012 17:36:53 -0400
> tedrosenberg <theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and
>> NONE of them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
> I suspect the overweight ones don't get out much, so they are
> underrepresented in what a visitor sees. That is certainly
> true in the US. I knew someone who's mother was so obese
> they had to tear a wall out of the house when her time came.
> As her husband commented "at least you know where she is."
> A fair percentage of Americans (like maybe 20 percent) just
> stay at home and watch TV. Others do their shopping for them.
I remember going to the Alderwood Mall with my mom when it was fairly new. I can't remember now when they first built it. Maybe the early 80's? We saw all these hugely fat women in the food court, sadly dressed in wild muu muu type frocks. I was like... Uh... Where did all these fat women come from?
My mom told me that they used to sit around at home and were ashamed to go out in public. And she may have been right. That was about the time period where a lot of media was telling us to be proud of ourselves no matter what. And to accept ourselves for who we were.
But it struck me as very odd. It was as though for most of my life I had only ever seen maybe 2 or 3 people of that size. And now all of a sudden there they were, having a convention in the food court!
They weren't all together of course. It was just weird to see so many of them at once.
Another thing that I have seen that is very odd is the breakdown of people you see at the Old Country Buffet. We will likely never go there again. The food isn't very tasty for starters. But I have gotten sick the last few times we ate there and the very last time we all got sick. I always eat the same foods because they only have a few things I can eat. Anyway... I'd say about 40% of the patrons are grossly obese. The other 40% are little bitty Asians. These Asians must be of the champion eater category. You'll see them go back for food again and again and again. And it's not the lighter fare. They do love their desserts. The remaining 20% are divided between underweight, normal weight to overweight and perhaps obese. But...
Angela and I always seemed to be in the minoritiy in that we only ever got two plates. And the second plate was never full. We took what we were having for our meal which was a taco salad and then the second plate might have a little rice or potatoes on it. I would usually also take some green beans. We never took any more food than that. Never took the bread or rolls they brought around. And never even approached the desserts. Clearly they were not making their money on us!
I would look around us and the other tables always had plate after plate loaded with bones from chicken and ribs. Soup mugs, dessert plates and bowls. Tons of them. It was as though those people ate until they were about to burst.
>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
>> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
>> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
I don't know about the sugar. I haven't cooked a lot of Chinese food but the few recipes I tried did have sugar. Of course they could have been Americanized recipes. I do think they are less likely to eat desserts and those desserts are not overly sweet.
> On 5/5/2012 6:59 PM, Trawley Trash wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 May 2012 17:36:53 -0400
>> tedrosenberg<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and
>>> NONE of them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
>> I suspect the overweight ones don't get out much, so they are
>> underrepresented in what a visitor sees. That is certainly
>> true in the US. I knew someone who's mother was so obese
>> they had to tear a wall out of the house when her time came.
>> As her husband commented "at least you know where she is."
>> A fair percentage of Americans (like maybe 20 percent) just
>> stay at home and watch TV. Others do their shopping for them.
>>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
>>> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
>>> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
>> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
>> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
>> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
> Sheesh - you sure don't know much, do you
> stop quoting something you heard from someone somewhere and learn some > facts
> \
> Your incredible bullcrap about "overweight people being hidden" because > one or two morbidly obese people don't go out is only topped by the > incredibly stupid assertion that 20% of Americans don't leave home.
> Then you come out babbling idiocy about Chinese diet, which you haven't a > CLUE about. They use PLENTY of dairy products, albeit not as much as many > Americans, lots of wheat. What do you think most noodles are made of?, or > all breads, or doughnuts. LOTS and LOTS of sugar. A typical desert may > be a plate of sliced Tomatoes layered with sugar, or any of the fried > cakes and doughnuts served everywhere.
> Then there is FAT, foods are FRIES, deep fried, stir fried, pan fried, but > usually FRIED. Bread is often served fried. I have had dishes I had to > pour the excess fat off of.
> and dumplings, sometimes steamed, but often fried, and ALWAYS made from > wheat.
> the Moslem areas have more roasted meats, And the less said about what > southerners eat, the better, but I doubt YOU could tell the difference > between various groups.
I used to love going to Seattle for Dim Sum. Angela never got to go there because that place is now closed. They would bring around various dishes and you'd tell them, "yes" or "no". They would never tell you what the food was. They would just tell you it was good. Then when they brought the bill, they charged you by the plate. Each plate was different and each was a different price.
My favorite food to get there was Hum Bow. I don't really know why I liked it because it didn't contain things that I normally would like but it sure tasted good! It was a large, steamed dumpling made of wheat of course with a pork filling and some oyster sauce inside. It was very sweet! I don't know if the oyster sauce has sugar in it or what but the end result was extremely sweet. I have since tried baked ones. My husband used to buy the baked ones in Oakland. I didn't like them baked. The steamed ones were very soft. The texture is rather hard to describe. They just sort of melt in your mouth.
I also liked Pot Stickers. Again made with wheat. I made a huge batch of these from scratch once and kept them in the freezer. They were a lot of work. Sort of like a Chinese Ravioli.
I don't know what dairy the Chinese use but I do know they use it. I have seen it mentioned on various cooking shows.
> "tedrosenberg"<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jo4po6$l82$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 5/5/2012 6:59 PM, Trawley Trash wrote:
>>> On Sat, 05 May 2012 17:36:53 -0400
>>> tedrosenberg<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and
>>>> NONE of them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
>>> I suspect the overweight ones don't get out much, so they are
>>> underrepresented in what a visitor sees. That is certainly
>>> true in the US. I knew someone who's mother was so obese
>>> they had to tear a wall out of the house when her time came.
>>> As her husband commented "at least you know where she is."
>>> A fair percentage of Americans (like maybe 20 percent) just
>>> stay at home and watch TV. Others do their shopping for them.
>>>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
>>>> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
>>>> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
>>> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
>>> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
>>> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
>> Sheesh - you sure don't know much, do you
>> stop quoting something you heard from someone somewhere and learn some
>> facts
>> \
>> Your incredible bullcrap about "overweight people being hidden" because
>> one or two morbidly obese people don't go out is only topped by the
>> incredibly stupid assertion that 20% of Americans don't leave home.
>> Then you come out babbling idiocy about Chinese diet, which you haven't a
>> CLUE about. They use PLENTY of dairy products, albeit not as much as many
>> Americans, lots of wheat. What do you think most noodles are made of?, or
>> all breads, or doughnuts. LOTS and LOTS of sugar. A typical desert may
>> be a plate of sliced Tomatoes layered with sugar, or any of the fried
>> cakes and doughnuts served everywhere.
>> Then there is FAT, foods are FRIES, deep fried, stir fried, pan fried, but
>> usually FRIED. Bread is often served fried. I have had dishes I had to
>> pour the excess fat off of.
>> and dumplings, sometimes steamed, but often fried, and ALWAYS made from
>> wheat.
>> the Moslem areas have more roasted meats, And the less said about what
>> southerners eat, the better, but I doubt YOU could tell the difference
>> between various groups.
> I used to love going to Seattle for Dim Sum. Angela never got to go there
> because that place is now closed. They would bring around various dishes
> and you'd tell them, "yes" or "no". They would never tell you what the food
> was. They would just tell you it was good. Then when they brought the
> bill, they charged you by the plate. Each plate was different and each was
> a different price.
> My favorite food to get there was Hum Bow. I don't really know why I liked
> it because it didn't contain things that I normally would like but it sure
> tasted good! It was a large, steamed dumpling made of wheat of course with
> a pork filling and some oyster sauce inside. It was very sweet! I don't
> know if the oyster sauce has sugar in it or what but the end result was
> extremely sweet. I have since tried baked ones. My husband used to buy the
> baked ones in Oakland. I didn't like them baked. The steamed ones were
> very soft. The texture is rather hard to describe. They just sort of melt
> in your mouth.
> I also liked Pot Stickers. Again made with wheat. I made a huge batch of
> these from scratch once and kept them in the freezer. They were a lot of
> work. Sort of like a Chinese Ravioli.
> I don't know what dairy the Chinese use but I do know they use it. I have
> seen it mentioned on various cooking shows.
When I got to China, I was surprised to find out that
Dim Sum is actually breakfast food .
It is fairly fancy breakfast food,and, although I was told, I can't remember what region it is from, Like in most places, breakfast is often a doughnut or sweet bun and a cup of coffee (yes, chinese drink coffee) The coffee is loaded with sugar, and is cut with 1/3 sweetened condensed milk. But, if you was to go for a real breakfast, or you are a businessman sharing a Power breakfast, it is Dim Sum.
As to dumplings here(of all sorts), I buy them frozen from the Korean markets and pop a few in the microwave to thaw, then steam or fry them, or, with the little ones, drop a few in some chicken broth.
The to big national Korean grocery chains which are in this area are HMart, and Lotte. They both have incredible produce, because, unlike the American chains, they carry riper produce, and a typical HMart probably has a turnover in the produce department of at least 3-4 times a same sized Safeway. On a Sunday, you may have to wait in line to get to the snow peas!
> "tedrosenberg"<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jo46gu$nh9$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 5/5/2012 10:20 AM, GysdeJongh wrote:
>>> Causation is no correllation. Where are these obesese people, I have not
>>> seen them here.
>>> America's Waistline Expands and Costs Soar
>>> The additional medical spending due to obesity is double previous
>>> estimates and exceeds even those of smoking...
>>> U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them
>>> with floor models to better support obese patients. Cars are burning
>>> nearly a billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers
>>> weighed what they did in 1960. The Federal Transit Administration wants
>>> buses to be tested for the impact of heavier riders on steering and
>>> braking.
>>> The nation's rising rate of obesity has been well-chronicled. But
>>> businesses, governments and individuals are only now coming to grips
>>> with the costs of those extra pounds, many of which are even greater
>>> than believed only a few years ago:
>>> Many of those costs have dollar signs in front of them, such as the
>>> higher health insurance premiums everyone pays to cover those extra
>>> medical costs. Other changes, often cost-neutral, are coming to the
>>> built environment in the form of wider seats in public places from
>>> sports stadiums to bus stops.
>>> The startling economic costs of obesity, often borne by the non-obese,
>>> could become the epidemic's second-hand smoke. Only when scientists
>>> discovered that nonsmokers were developing lung cancer and other
>>> diseases from breathing smoke-filled air did policymakers get serious
>>> about fighting the habit, in particular by establishing nonsmoking
>>> zones. The costs that smoking added to Medicaid also spurred action.
>>> Now, as economists put a price tag on sky-high body mass indexes (BMIs),
>>> policymakers as well as the private sector are mobilizing to find
>>> solutions to the obesity epidemic.
>>> The U.S. health care reform law of 2010 allows employers to charge obese
>>> workers 30% to 50% more for health insurance if they decline to
>>> participate in a qualified wellness program.
>>> Such measures do not sit well with all obese Americans. Advocacy groups
>>> formed to "end size discrimination" argue that it is possible to be
>>> healthy "at every size," taking issue with the findings that obesity
>>> necessarily comes with added medical costs.
>>> The percentage of Americans who are obese (with a BMI of 30 or higher)
>>> has tripled since 1960, to 34%, while the incidence of extreme or
>>> "morbid" obesity (BMI above 40) has risen sixfold, to 6%.
>>> The very obese lose one month of productive work per year, costing
>>> employers an average of $3,792 per very obese male worker and $3,037 per
>>> female. Total annual cost of presenteeism due to obesity: $30 billion.
>> Interesting observation on weight gain. I just spent 4 months in mainland
>> china, NO ONE is overweight there!, that is NO ONE, and not just Han,
>> Meow, Koreans, Mongols, Tibetans, H'mung, Hainanese, Turks, and thousands
>> of other ethnic minorities who inhabit China . Expats from the US and Oz
>> are heavier than Chinese, but all the Expats I talked to had lost weight
>> while in China (except one TINY woman)
>> Chinese generally eat a high fat high sodium diet, and they eat BIG meals.
>> going to a Chinese dinner is like going to my grandmothers. Stop eating
>> for even a second, and someone will think you are STARVING and put more
>> food on your plate.
>> They also have a very efficient transportation system in the cities, and
>> none of the Chinese I saw walked as much as New Yorkers. They drive
>> ELECTRIC bikes, so they didn't even peddle.
>> The ONE overweight Chinese woman I saw had just come from overseas. I
>> guess I should note that, many young boys are overweight because they are
>> the only young male in the family. When they start school, the weight
>> comes right off. You see fat 3 year old boys, but NOT fat 6 year old
>> boys.
>> This is a mystery, it is INCREDIBLE to see MILLIONS of people, and NONE of
>> them are overweight, not a few, NONE.
>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge cane
>> sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and don't put it
>> in anything. That is a GUESS
> Very interesting! I used to have a Chinese friend who ate tons of food!
> But it was never junk food. He was particularly fond of chicken. He would
> eat it in a variety of ways. If we went out for dinner he might order a
> chicken Caeser salad along with some pasta with chicken and sometimes even a
> plain chicken breast on the side. He was very thin, but he was young too.
I know LOTS of overweight Chinese
but ALL of them are in the US, not in China.
Also, remember, China is incredibly diverse. MOST Chinese are Han, but many are not. My daughter says that walking the streets of Shinjin, it looks more like downtown Kiev!. Tibetans don't just live in Tibet, they spread ALL over china thousands of years ago. The Mongols ruled china for Hundreds of years, and they are still there. Korea conquered and ruled much of the Coast of China at times, and THEY are still there. Just because YOU can't tell the difference between a Korean and a Han, believe me THEY can, easily. There are LOTS of different groups. The area we lived in was native Hainanese. The little old ladies who sat out front to the houses gossiping all day and always gave us a cheery wave couldn't speak much more Chinese than we could. Their CHILDREN and grandchildren spoke Chinese, but the idea of teaching everybody the same language didn't really start until about 1953, and still isn't completely implemented. If you are educated, and under 40, you probably speak Chinese, if not, you may speak any of a huge number of native languages
: >
: I know LOTS of overweight Chinese
: but ALL of them are in the US, not in China.
: Also, remember, China is incredibly diverse. MOST Chinese are Han, but : many are not. My daughter says that walking the streets of Shinjin, it : looks more like downtown Kiev!. Tibetans don't just live in Tibet, they : spread ALL over china thousands of years ago. The Mongols ruled china : for Hundreds of years, and they are still there. Korea conquered and : ruled much of the Coast of China at times, and THEY are still there. : Just because YOU can't tell the difference between a Korean and a Han, : believe me THEY can, easily. There are LOTS of different groups. The : area we lived in was native Hainanese. The little old ladies who sat : out front to the houses gossiping all day and always gave us a cheery : wave couldn't speak much more Chinese than we could. Their CHILDREN and : grandchildren spoke Chinese, but the idea of teaching everybody the same : language didn't really start until about 1953, and still isn't : completely implemented. If you are educated, and under 40, you probably : speak Chinese, if not, you may speak any of a huge number of native : languages
This variety of peoples and languages was well seved by the Chinese writen language which is was not phonetically based, but used signs with meaning, not sound. As a result, until the late 19th centry or so Chinese writing was used eveninplaces like Vienam ant others because people who couldn't speak to each other could read eachother's writing. this was most useful when China had a large empire. They have now introduced more phonetics into the sysme, which may well cause some difficulties.
tedrosenberg <theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sheesh - you sure don't know much, do you
> stop quoting something you heard from someone somewhere and learn
> some facts \
> Your incredible bullcrap about "overweight people being hidden"
> because one or two morbidly obese people don't go out is only topped
> by the incredibly stupid assertion that 20% of Americans don't leave
> home.
I stand on that. It might be 10 percent, or 30 percent, but there
are a lot of them. I spent two years repairing TVs in peoples
homes, and there is a massive weight difference between the people
who have fancy TVs and expensive service contracts and those
you see on the street. Often I was asked to perform some trivial
errand like bringing in the mail, and there was nothing wrong
with the TV.
> Then you come out babbling idiocy about Chinese diet, which you
> haven't a CLUE about. They use PLENTY of dairy products, albeit not
> as much as many Americans, lots of wheat. What do you think most
> noodles are made of?,
In China: wheat, mung beans, sweet potatoes, or even peas. I guess you don't read labels much.
> or all breads, or doughnuts. LOTS and LOTS of
> sugar. A typical desert may be a plate of sliced Tomatoes layered
> with sugar, or any of the fried cakes and doughnuts served everywhere.
That sounds like what you would see in areas that cater to western
businessmen. You can travel around the world and eat like that
everywhere.
I have seen steamed buns, but not bread. Pancakes with green onions
instead of syrup. And cakes are often made of rice.
> Then there is FAT, foods are FRIES, deep fried, stir fried, pan
> fried, but usually FRIED. Bread is often served fried. I have had
> dishes I had to pour the excess fat off of.
You spent how long in China, and you never had a stir fry over rice?
The cooks earn their pay by using as little oil as possible. Oil
is expensive. The cooking is done with steam, not oil.
They served you what they thought you wanted. It is your own fault if
you ordered the wrong food.
> and dumplings, sometimes steamed, but often fried, and ALWAYS made
> from wheat.
Steamed buns I would call them. Never seen them fried or sweet.
I would probably call them donuts if they were.
Wheat was introduced by the Yuan dynasty after the defeat of
the Sung in 1279. Its use varies by region.
> the Moslem areas have more roasted meats, And the less said about
> what southerners eat, the better, but I doubt YOU could tell the
> difference between various groups.
It is the southern styles that I favor. It begins to look more
like Vietnamese food and Thai food. I also do well on Korean food.
> On Sat, 05 May 2012 23:05:05 -0400
> tedrosenberg<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sheesh - you sure don't know much, do you
>> stop quoting something you heard from someone somewhere and learn
>> some facts \
>> Your incredible bullcrap about "overweight people being hidden"
>> because one or two morbidly obese people don't go out is only topped
>> by the incredibly stupid assertion that 20% of Americans don't leave
>> home.
> I stand on that. It might be 10 percent, or 30 percent, but there
> are a lot of them. I spent two years repairing TVs in peoples
> homes, and there is a massive weight difference between the people
> who have fancy TVs and expensive service contracts and those
> you see on the street. Often I was asked to perform some trivial
> errand like bringing in the mail, and there was nothing wrong
> with the TV.
>> Then you come out babbling idiocy about Chinese diet, which you
>> haven't a CLUE about. They use PLENTY of dairy products, albeit not
>> as much as many Americans, lots of wheat. What do you think most
>> noodles are made of?,
> In China: wheat, mung beans, sweet potatoes, or even peas. I guess
> you don't read labels much.
>> or all breads, or doughnuts. LOTS and LOTS of
>> sugar. A typical desert may be a plate of sliced Tomatoes layered
>> with sugar, or any of the fried cakes and doughnuts served everywhere.
> That sounds like what you would see in areas that cater to western
> businessmen. You can travel around the world and eat like that
> everywhere.
> I have seen steamed buns, but not bread. Pancakes with green onions
> instead of syrup. And cakes are often made of rice.
>> Then there is FAT, foods are FRIES, deep fried, stir fried, pan
>> fried, but usually FRIED. Bread is often served fried. I have had
>> dishes I had to pour the excess fat off of.
> You spent how long in China, and you never had a stir fry over rice?
> The cooks earn their pay by using as little oil as possible. Oil
> is expensive. The cooking is done with steam, not oil.
> They served you what they thought you wanted. It is your own fault if
> you ordered the wrong food.
>> and dumplings, sometimes steamed, but often fried, and ALWAYS made
>> from wheat.
> Steamed buns I would call them. Never seen them fried or sweet.
> I would probably call them donuts if they were.
> Wheat was introduced by the Yuan dynasty after the defeat of
> the Sung in 1279. Its use varies by region.
>> the Moslem areas have more roasted meats, And the less said about
>> what southerners eat, the better, but I doubt YOU could tell the
>> difference between various groups.
> It is the southern styles that I favor. It begins to look more
> like Vietnamese food and Thai food. I also do well on Korean food.
First, I was never in an area western businessmen travel in. or where there are even many expats. I was staying with family except when I took a sleeper to Beijing to catch my return flight
I do stand corrected on noodles, while most of the ones I see at Carrefours or in the market are wheat. I have seen them made from beans. Wheat is a major crop, particularly in the North, but is used all over. SO, (much to my surprise) is corn.
As to Southerners, you obviously never heard "Southerners eat anything with 4 legs except a table, everything with 2 legs except a man, everything with wings except an airplane, and everything that crawls except a baby" Not at ALL like Korean food. Not even CLOSE. Most westerners would have no trouble with sliced pig stomach and Kimchee, but fried wharf rat ? I don't know any Koreans who would tackle that . Southerners eat dog (as do Koreans) but Northerners don't. I, for one, don't eat either dog or rat, but Dragon (Donkey) pies (in wheat shell) are fine. There are not a lot of ethnic Koreans in the South or Southwest. They are in the East, closer to Korea, and Korean BBQ is a specialty in the south, few places, and expensive. Classy enough that they hire translators for their menus.
I, for one don't see any connection between the southern style foods and either Thai or Vietnamese. You will find Thai restaurants in the south, mainly (but not entirely) Buddhist. I ate at two Thai places when I was there, one was a VERY confused Buddhist center, with great mushroom dishes, and nothing which taster like any Thai dish i ever had, and the other at one of thee top places in town, where where we were guests of the Executive Chef, so I am not entirely sure what I had, just that it was excellent.
I never saw a Vietnamese place (which doesn't mean that there weren't thousands of them), and all the Vietnamese chefs i know in the US are ethnic Chinese who fled Vietnam.
> tedrosenberg<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :>
> : I know LOTS of overweight Chinese
> : but ALL of them are in the US, not in China.
> : Also, remember, China is incredibly diverse. MOST Chinese are Han, but
> : many are not. My daughter says that walking the streets of Shinjin, it
> : looks more like downtown Kiev!. Tibetans don't just live in Tibet, they
> : spread ALL over china thousands of years ago. The Mongols ruled china
> : for Hundreds of years, and they are still there. Korea conquered and
> : ruled much of the Coast of China at times, and THEY are still there.
> : Just because YOU can't tell the difference between a Korean and a Han,
> : believe me THEY can, easily. There are LOTS of different groups. The
> : area we lived in was native Hainanese. The little old ladies who sat
> : out front to the houses gossiping all day and always gave us a cheery
> : wave couldn't speak much more Chinese than we could. Their CHILDREN and
> : grandchildren spoke Chinese, but the idea of teaching everybody the same
> : language didn't really start until about 1953, and still isn't
> : completely implemented. If you are educated, and under 40, you probably
> : speak Chinese, if not, you may speak any of a huge number of native
> : languages
> This variety of peoples and languages was well seved by the Chinese writen
> language which is was not phonetically based, but used signs with meaning,
> not sound. As a result, until the late 19th centry or so Chinese writing
> was used eveninplaces like Vienam ant others because people who couldn't
> speak to each other could read eachother's writing. this was most useful
> when China had a large empire. They have now introduced more phonetics
> into the sysme, which may well cause some difficulties.
> Wendy
Yes, try WeiBo instead of Twitter. You can get a LOT of meaning in 140 Chinese idiographs
In article <2vng79-r7b....@jester.gnet>,
Trawley Trash <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
> > cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
> > don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
The dominant starch varies by geography.
Northern China (where my father grew up) is colder and has wheat as its dominant starch. Breads of many kinds (steamed, baked, fried) are featured in the cuisine. There's also more lamb used, when one can afford meat.
Southern China is warmer and has rice as its dominant starch. Most USians are familiar with a version of some southern Chinese cooking because the Chinese people who provided the labor to build the railroads and who were the first immigrants from China were from a few of the coastal rice-eating areas of southern China. They introduced "Chinese food" to the US, adapting their cooking to US appetites and expectations.
What most folks in the US know as "Chinese food" is an Americanized version of what the rich eat in just a few areas of China. Meat is a luxury for most, and for many Chinese through the millennia, starch and veggies have been the main components of their diet, along with some oil and what seasonings could be afforded. The very poor would drink hot water, since tea was so pricey only the well-to-do could afford it.
> In article <2vng79-r7b....@jester.gnet>,
> Trawley Trash <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
>>> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
>>> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
>> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
>> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
>> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
> The dominant starch varies by geography.
> Northern China (where my father grew up) is colder and has wheat as its > dominant starch. Breads of many kinds (steamed, baked, fried) are > featured in the cuisine. There's also more lamb used, when one can > afford meat.
> Southern China is warmer and has rice as its dominant starch. Most > USians are familiar with a version of some southern Chinese cooking > because the Chinese people who provided the labor to build the railroads > and who were the first immigrants from China were from a few of the > coastal rice-eating areas of southern China. They introduced "Chinese > food" to the US, adapting their cooking to US appetites and expectations.
> What most folks in the US know as "Chinese food" is an Americanized > version of what the rich eat in just a few areas of China. Meat is a > luxury for most, and for many Chinese through the millennia, starch and > veggies have been the main components of their diet, along with some oil > and what seasonings could be afforded. The very poor would drink hot > water, since tea was so pricey only the well-to-do could afford it.
> PP
Here "chinese food" is mostly from take-aways, its packed with monosodiumglutamate (vetsin), I get sick of this next day.
Work-around: making your own "chinese food".
Weve colonised Indonesia (and some more), thats where "our" "chinese food"-tradition comes from...
M.
: In article <2vng79-r7b....@jester.gnet>,
: Trawley Trash <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
: > > The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
: > > cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
: > > don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
: > : > Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
: > oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
: > western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
: The dominant starch varies by geography.
: Northern China (where my father grew up) is colder and has wheat as its : dominant starch. Breads of many kinds (steamed, baked, fried) are : featured in the cuisine. There's also more lamb used, when one can : afford meat.
: Southern China is warmer and has rice as its dominant starch. Most : USians are familiar with a version of some southern Chinese cooking : because the Chinese people who provided the labor to build the railroads : and who were the first immigrants from China were from a few of the : coastal rice-eating areas of southern China. They introduced "Chinese : food" to the US, adapting their cooking to US appetites and expectations.
: What most folks in the US know as "Chinese food" is an Americanized : version of what the rich eat in just a few areas of China. Meat is a : luxury for most, and for many Chinese through the millennia, starch and : veggies have been the main components of their diet, along with some oil : and what seasonings could be afforded. The very poor would drink hot : water, since tea was so pricey only the well-to-do could afford it.
: PP
When the sweet potato was introduced to China, it was a godsend. It provided lots of calories to peole living on calorie-poor diets adn it grew in areas where it did not compete with rice, the major calorie source in the soutern part of China.
More form my summer over 50 years ago when I studies Asian History and a seminar in Russo-Asian relations. For some reason this kind of stuff really sticks with me:-)
> In article<2vng79-r7b....@jester.gnet>,
> Trawley Trash<tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
>>> cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
>>> don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
>> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
>> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
>> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
> The dominant starch varies by geography.
> Northern China (where my father grew up) is colder and has wheat as its
> dominant starch. Breads of many kinds (steamed, baked, fried) are
> featured in the cuisine. There's also more lamb used, when one can
> afford meat.
> Southern China is warmer and has rice as its dominant starch. Most
> USians are familiar with a version of some southern Chinese cooking
> because the Chinese people who provided the labor to build the railroads
> and who were the first immigrants from China were from a few of the
> coastal rice-eating areas of southern China. They introduced "Chinese
> food" to the US, adapting their cooking to US appetites and expectations.
> What most folks in the US know as "Chinese food" is an Americanized
> version of what the rich eat in just a few areas of China. Meat is a
> luxury for most, and for many Chinese through the millennia, starch and
> veggies have been the main components of their diet, along with some oil
> and what seasonings could be afforded. The very poor would drink hot
> water, since tea was so pricey only the well-to-do could afford it.
> PP
Meat is no longer a rarity. LOTS of mutton, duck, fish, pork chicken, everywhere at every roadside food stand, and any place there is food.
Unless you are Buddhist, it is a status thing, to ALWAYS have meat at meals, after all, your parents couldn't.
Bread is not what most Americans expect, but mainly fried flat-breads. Also, a BIG dish (can't remember the name) is chopped flat-bread pan-fried. Looks and tastes like spicy home fried potatoes. Of course, there is always plenty of rice
Three dishes you get everywhere are
1) Home style Tofu
2) Big plate chicken
3) and chicken soup with dumplings.
What is interesting about these dishes is that they bear almost no relationship to one another from one place to another. They have the same name, and the same basic ingredients, but different vegetables, different spices, different sauces. Big plate chicken is a large plate of pieces of chicken cooked (maybe) with vegetables, (maybe) fried, (maybe) boiled, (maybe spicy) but is always chicken, and it is always served in a plate about twice the size of most serving plates.
I am not talking from Sanyo to Shinjin
, I am talking abouy from THIS block to the next one.
One of my favorite meals is at a congee stand in old-town Haikou, where they open about 10PM. There is another stand, in the market area, which ALSO sells "authentic Haikou seafood Congee". It is also good, also seafood, also congee, only slightly similar to the place I prefer (but it opens about 6, and closes at 10)
If you ask a Hainese where t get the best food, what will they tell you? (two possible answers)
> :> > The only guess we can come up with is Fructose. China has a huge
> :> > cane sugar crop, so they produce no high-fructose corn syrup, and
> :> > don't put it in anything. That is a GUESS
> :>
> :> Chinese food has no dairy products. They use less wheat, and less
> :> oil and sugar than you think. However they seem eager to adopt
> :> western ways, and I am sure they will catch up soon.
> : The dominant starch varies by geography.
> : Northern China (where my father grew up) is colder and has wheat as its
> : dominant starch. Breads of many kinds (steamed, baked, fried) are
> : featured in the cuisine. There's also more lamb used, when one can
> : afford meat.
> : Southern China is warmer and has rice as its dominant starch. Most
> : USians are familiar with a version of some southern Chinese cooking
> : because the Chinese people who provided the labor to build the railroads
> : and who were the first immigrants from China were from a few of the
> : coastal rice-eating areas of southern China. They introduced "Chinese
> : food" to the US, adapting their cooking to US appetites and expectations.
> : What most folks in the US know as "Chinese food" is an Americanized
> : version of what the rich eat in just a few areas of China. Meat is a
> : luxury for most, and for many Chinese through the millennia, starch and
> : veggies have been the main components of their diet, along with some oil
> : and what seasonings could be afforded. The very poor would drink hot
> : water, since tea was so pricey only the well-to-do could afford it.
> : PP
> When the sweet potato was introduced to China, it was a godsend. It
> provided lots of calories to peole living on calorie-poor diets adn it
> grew in areas where it did not compete with rice, the major calorie source
> in the soutern part of China.
> More form my summer over 50 years ago when I studies Asian History and a
> seminar in Russo-Asian relations. For some reason this kind of stuff
> really sticks with me:-)
> Wendy
I don't know where it came from, because the Chinese sweet potato is an entirely different plant than the US one. The tuber tastes pretty close, but American Sweet potato leaves are poisonous, and Asian are served often (and taste great)
tedrosenberg <theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I, for one don't see any connection between the southern style foods
> and either Thai or Vietnamese.
Northern Chinese styles do contain wheat, and I must
avoid them. In the south there is rice instead of wheat. No milk
except coconut or boiled milk. Thai food is also heavy on spices.
Sweet potato noodles are a Korean staple.
And I left rice out of my list of alternative ingredients for noodles.
Have you never seen pancakes with onions and no sugar (or syrup)?
I do not have to go to China to read up on these things, or to take
classes in Chinese cooking. Of course that was forty years ago.
China is changing rapidly, and I can see those changes on the shelves
of our Asian supermarkets. More and more western style snack foods
and sugar. They are copying our mistakes, and I do not doubt that
diabetes is surging there.
> On Sun, 06 May 2012 21:37:23 -0400
> tedrosenberg<theodore.rosenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I, for one don't see any connection between the southern style foods
>> and either Thai or Vietnamese.
> Northern Chinese styles do contain wheat, and I must
> avoid them. In the south there is rice instead of wheat. No milk
> except coconut or boiled milk. Thai food is also heavy on spices.
Actually lots of milk, you can't go a block without an ad for some milk drink. Still not in a class by US standards. My daughter hates the ultrapasturised stuff, so she gets her delivered every morning by a neighbor with a cow.
"Heavy on spices" you SURE don't get around much SOME areas are heavy on spices, some areas in the far south use almost no spices in cooking.
> Sweet potato noodles are a Korean staple.
Yes, but Korea, and most Koreans are in the far Northeast
> And I left rice out of my list of alternative ingredients for noodles.
No argument that "glass noodles" are rice, they seem to be mainly Singaporean
> Have you never seen pancakes with onions and no sugar (or syrup)?
sure
> I do not have to go to China to read up on these things, or to take
> classes in Chinese cooking. Of course that was forty years ago.
> China is changing rapidly, and I can see those changes on the shelves
> of our Asian supermarkets. More and more western style snack foods
> and sugar. They are copying our mistakes, and I do not doubt that
> diabetes is surging there.
You seem to have some ideas from the Western edge of Guangdong, near Vietnam, and from the areas near Korea
You also seem to think that US cooking schools have ANYTHING to do with how people in China actually eat today. I have a friend who has a cooking school. Of course, except for an occasional visit, she hasen't been in China in 50 years. Also, she teaches what westerners might like, NOT what Yunan of Heinan might like.
You haven't noticed that your Asian supermarkets are Korean, NOT Chinese. The largest chain's name (in Chinese) translates to "Korean Dragon Foods"
You also think you know more about something on the other side of the earth by "reading about it" than people who have been there
In article <G_ydnWui8cgMljXSnZ2dnUVZ8tmdn...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> Here "chinese food" is mostly from take-aways, its packed with > monosodiumglutamate (vetsin), I get sick of this next day.
> Work-around: making your own "chinese food".
> Weve colonised Indonesia (and some more), thats where "our" "chinese > food"-tradition comes from...
> M.
Yes, I mostly cook my own Chinese food, based on what my father cooked when I was growing up, what I've eaten in authentic Chinese restaurants, and what I've learned from media of various kinds. I am lucky in that there is a big Asian market near my office where I can get just about anything for Chinese or other Asian cooking. They have a food court as well with a stand where I can get 1/2 a roast duck or ribs or cuttlefish or any of those other goodies. The place is usually packed with college kids of Asian ancestry.
When I was a senior in college, a friend and I took six weeks and travelled to the UK, Amsterdam, and Paris. We knew that to eat well and inexpensively we should patronize restaurants serving the cuisine of countries colonized by the country we were in. So in the UK we ate a lot of Indian food (also Chinese), in Amsterdam we ate Indonesian (and again Chinese), and in Paris we ate Algerian. Not Chinese in Paris because as an alternative to Algerian I became addicted to steak aux poivres with red vin ordinaire.
I'll adapt Chinese dishes for my own way of eating, too. For instance, the "soup noodles" I used to eat have morphed into a dish with no actual noodles in it. Lots of greens and other things in stock from cooking up pork neck bones, with the meat from the bones or chopped pieces of roast duck (and sometimes tofu), seasoned with soy sauce and vinegar. I make my own sour hot soup, too, as well as various stirfried dishes. For lunch in a few minutes I'm having leftover stir-fried pork and broccoli (with lots of garlic) from last night's dinner. Stir fry dishes I eat without rice.
PP
-- "What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by means
of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works." - Chris Malcolm
: I'll adapt Chinese dishes for my own way of eating, too. For instance, : the "soup noodles" I used to eat have morphed into a dish with no actual : noodles in it. Lots of greens and other things in stock from cooking up : pork neck bones, with the meat from the bones or chopped pieces of roast : duck (and sometimes tofu), seasoned with soy sauce and vinegar. I make : my own sour hot soup, too, as well as various stirfried dishes. For : lunch in a few minutes I'm having leftover stir-fried pork and broccoli : (with lots of garlic) from last night's dinner. Stir fry dishes I eat : without rice.
: PP
: -- : "What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by means
: of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works." : - Chris Malcolm
Pris,
Could you send your recipe for the sour-hot soup, and can I sub for the pork?
