BG reading update
Phil Scott
Summary:
BG tested 214 to start, 1 hour after eating, at 8pm yesterday
197 after 4 hours. (midnight) I'm in the middle of a cold and urine is
cloudy.
Corrected to at least 134 fasting BG in the morning. (the 120 reading could
not have been correct, I missed a small spot on the side of the dot)
After not eating all day, and a work out at Golds Gym for 1 hour, BG tested
at 134 5pm.
I will be fasting on water for a few days, then raw juice for a week, and
posting the numbers.
My notion is to drive BG below 90, lower if I dont get low sugar reactions,
hold that for week or longer, as I continue to physically work... then
control to BG=100 from there.
3 years ago I did not get bruized finger tips from the little stabber
device...now I have bruises whereever I took blood.... Does anyone have
comments on how far south that is? What does one do about that sort of
thing?
Phil Scott
ma...@toad-net.com
pattern, take the sampleon the side of the finger just back of the nail,
not on the pad. Starting on one hand do it one finger at a time on one
side, shift to the other hand on the same side, shift to the original hand
moving to the other side of each finger and repeat. With 8 fingers you
will do 16 sticks before returning to the orginal site. Even this can be
extended by selecting the stick site closer or nearer to the nail as the
pattern repeats. Delaying the repeat testing site reduces brusing and
sore fingers. Make sure to adjust the depth of the sticking device just
deep enough to get a good sample, good luck.
Julie Bove
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:bu4q3m$3k5$1...@news.tdl.com...
> .
> Summary:
>
> BG tested 214 to start, 1 hour after eating, at 8pm yesterday
> 197 after 4 hours. (midnight) I'm in the middle of a cold and urine is
> cloudy.
>
> Corrected to at least 134 fasting BG in the morning. (the 120 reading
could
> not have been correct, I missed a small spot on the side of the dot)
>
> After not eating all day, and a work out at Golds Gym for 1 hour, BG
tested
> at 134 5pm.
>
> I will be fasting on water for a few days, then raw juice for a week, and
> posting the numbers.
That is asinine!!! If you have type 2 and do not eat on a regular basis,
this will cause your body to dump glucose. That = high BG. Juice is fruit
juice is loaded with carbs and little else. That's the worst thing a
diabetic can drink. Vegetable juice is lower in carbs, but is still all
carbs and contains no fiber, protein or fat. A diabetic might safely be
able to work one serving of vegetable juice in per day. But if it is your
intent to fast on only juice, you might as well check yourself in to the
hospital.
>
> My notion is to drive BG below 90, lower if I dont get low sugar
reactions,
> hold that for week or longer, as I continue to physically work... then
> control to BG=100 from there.
You won't get low sugar reactions if you're drinking juice! Lord only knows
what will happen to you from drinking only water. Do you have a death wish?
>
> 3 years ago I did not get bruized finger tips from the little stabber
> device...now I have bruises whereever I took blood.... Does anyone have
> comments on how far south that is? What does one do about that sort of
> thing?
I have never gotten bruises. Could be a vitamin deficiency. You certainly
will have one from fasting.
--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Phil Scott
"Julie Bove" <jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:100buqu...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
> "Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
> news:bu4q3m$3k5$1...@news.tdl.com...
> > .
> > Summary:
> >
> > BG tested 214 to start, 1 hour after eating, at 8pm yesterday
> > 197 after 4 hours. (midnight) I'm in the middle of a cold and urine is
> > cloudy.
> >
> > Corrected to at least 134 fasting BG in the morning. (the 120 reading
> could
> > not have been correct, I missed a small spot on the side of the dot)
> >
> > After not eating all day, and a work out at Golds Gym for 1 hour, BG
> tested
> > at 134 5pm.
> >
> > I will be fasting on water for a few days, then raw juice for a week,
and
> > posting the numbers.
>
> That is asinine!!! If you have type 2 and do not eat on a regular basis,
> this will cause your body to dump glucose.
OK, can we discuss this.... I am just learning about all this. It seems
to me though that the body will dump glucose via the liver until it has no
more to dump...and then the BG, not having any food in the body will be
forced down.... and can be monitored and controlled at 90 or so. Why let
the liver keep its extra store of glucose? (it needs it maybe to dump in
case you work suddenly and dont go low on glucose)...
I have fasted in the past with good effects but with no meter...you have
explained what happened though...my feet react to too much glucose, and the
first few days of a fast my feet get worse...then ever so slowly better
after about 3 days on water and the next 4 on raw juice....it was the liver
dumping glucose at the front end of the fast apparently that produced this.
Thanks for the insight.
> That = high BG. Juice is fruit
Not fruit..I agree thats bad...its juiced celery, parsely, beet tops, a
touch of carrot, garlic, ginger etc.... NO fruits.
> juice is loaded with carbs and little else. That's the worst thing a
> diabetic can drink. Vegetable juice is lower in carbs, but is still all
> carbs and contains no fiber, protein or fat. A diabetic might safely be
> able to work one serving of vegetable juice in per day. But if it is your
> intent to fast on only juice, you might as well check yourself in to the
> hospital.
So far, with no metering, drinking 32 oz of raw vegitable juice a day and
then just water has worked miracles for me... my juicy friend says she lived
on about 64 oz a day for years... will that work for me? or others? Dont
know....it has worked for many though there are books by these guys.... Paul
Bragg died at over 90 on raw juices almost predominantly the last 50 years
of his life...some salads. mmmv of course, I will be taking advice from
this ng and testing and seeing what works and posting the numbers for better
or worse with each iteration.
> >
> > My notion is to drive BG below 90, lower if I dont get low sugar
> reactions,
> > hold that for week or longer, as I continue to physically work... then
> > control to BG=100 from there.
>
> You won't get low sugar reactions if you're drinking juice! Lord only
knows
> what will happen to you from drinking only water. Do you have a death
wish?
Ok now you know its not FRUIT juice..thats ok .... I and many others have
done 3 day water fasts many times and its generally considered to be safe...
fasting two days a week was recently reported on the Tee Vee to lenghten
life span in rats...a widely reported study...
> >
> > 3 years ago I did not get bruized finger tips from the little stabber
> > device...now I have bruises whereever I took blood.... Does anyone have
> > comments on how far south that is? What does one do about that sort of
> > thing?
>
> I have never gotten bruises. Could be a vitamin deficiency. You
certainly
> will have one from fasting.
I cheat. I take vitamins during a fast, but not heavily. and a lot of
vitamin E and C during a fast.
Phil Scott, the beedie eyed cheatin bastid over there with his hand on
monica's ass.
RB
haven't made an appointment with your doctor why not eat sensibly
until you get in and can discuss this fasting plan with your medical
professional. Your fasting buddie is not who you should be listening
to right now. Of course its your body. Do as you wish.
By the way, test your BG before your meal and then two hours after you
begin the meal. That will be a better indication of how that food
affected you. Also testing your BG when you wake up in the morning
before eating or drinking will tell you if your making Glucose in the
early morning hours, many of us see that.
With that said, it's my opinion that your are headed down a rocky
path. Of course I am not a health care professional, I have much to
learn and YMMV and TIJMO.
rb
Julie Bove
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:bu4vu6$55r$1...@news.tdl.com...
> OK, can we discuss this.... I am just learning about all this. It seems
> to me though that the body will dump glucose via the liver until it has no
> more to dump...and then the BG, not having any food in the body will be
> forced down.... and can be monitored and controlled at 90 or so. Why
let
> the liver keep its extra store of glucose? (it needs it maybe to dump
in
> case you work suddenly and dont go low on glucose)...
The body expects to be fed at certain intervals. If it does not get the
food, it will dump glucose to protect the brain and other parts of the body
from a hypo. Now remember, this is different for type 1's who might not get
the liver dump. That's why a hypo for them can be life threatening in and
of itself. But type 2's are more prone to this. You can force your BG down
sometimes by eating a low carb diet. But you must still eat something. I'm
sure somebody else will come along and be able to give you a more technical
explaination of this. It is dangerous for diabetics to fast, with the
exception of fasitng for operations and certain medical tests. Even
religions that require fasting have an exclusion for diabetics.
>
> I have fasted in the past with good effects but with no meter...you have
> explained what happened though...my feet react to too much glucose, and
the
> first few days of a fast my feet get worse...then ever so slowly better
> after about 3 days on water and the next 4 on raw juice....it was the
liver
> dumping glucose at the front end of the fast apparently that produced
this.
If you had no meter, you have no idea how your results were. And from my
experience with Neuropathy, if your BG runs high for several days in a row,
you lose sensation of the pain in your feet. That's not a good thing!
Never think you can tell how your BG is by how you feel. I've thought I was
having hypos when in fact I had high BG. I've had symptoms of hypo when my
BG is fine. And then I've fainted because I was indeed having a hypo, but
had no symptoms.
> Thanks for the insight.
>
>
> > That = high BG. Juice is fruit
>
> Not fruit..I agree thats bad...its juiced celery, parsely, beet tops, a
> touch of carrot, garlic, ginger etc.... NO fruits.
But still you are consuming something that is all carbs with no fiber, no
protein, no fat.
> So far, with no metering, drinking 32 oz of raw vegitable juice a day and
> then just water has worked miracles for me... my juicy friend says she
lived
> on about 64 oz a day for years... will that work for me? or others?
Dont
> know....it has worked for many though there are books by these guys....
Paul
> Bragg died at over 90 on raw juices almost predominantly the last 50 years
> of his life...some salads. mmmv of course, I will be taking advice from
> this ng and testing and seeing what works and posting the numbers for
better
> or worse with each iteration.
Again, the key phrase here is "no meter". You have NO clue how your BG was
running. Far better for you to eat the salads and get the fiber than to
simply drink juice.
> > > My notion is to drive BG below 90, lower if I dont get low sugar
> > reactions,
> > > hold that for week or longer, as I continue to physically work... then
> > > control to BG=100 from there.
> >
> > You won't get low sugar reactions if you're drinking juice! Lord only
> knows
> > what will happen to you from drinking only water. Do you have a death
> wish?
>
> Ok now you know its not FRUIT juice..thats ok .... I and many others have
> done 3 day water fasts many times and its generally considered to be
safe...
> fasting two days a week was recently reported on the Tee Vee to lenghten
> life span in rats...a widely reported study...
Still, all vegetables are composed of carbs. Some more than others. What
you are doing when you juice is to extract all the liquid and carbs, but
leave behind no fiber. This makes no sense for anyone to do! I do use
vegetable juice as a soup base. Gives the soup good flavor. But I also add
more veggies and things to it. And what does the life span of rats have to
do with anything? Humans are not rats! Well, most of us aren't, anyway.
> > > 3 years ago I did not get bruized finger tips from the little stabber
> > > device...now I have bruises whereever I took blood.... Does anyone
have
> > > comments on how far south that is? What does one do about that sort
of
> > > thing?
> >
> > I have never gotten bruises. Could be a vitamin deficiency. You
> certainly
> > will have one from fasting.
>
> I cheat. I take vitamins during a fast, but not heavily. and a lot of
> vitamin E and C during a fast.
Why are you taking a lot of those? Somebody recently posted here that
taking vitamin C without Rutin was dangerous, and taking vitamin E can in
fact cause heart problems. Sounds like you're throwing your money down the
toilet anyway because vitamins are best assimilated when taken with food.
Quentin Grady
>BG tested 214 to start, 1 hour after eating, at 8pm yesterday
>197 after 4 hours. (midnight) I'm in the middle of a cold and urine is
>cloudy.
>
>Corrected to at least 134 fasting BG in the morning.
G'day G'day Phil,
You may want to take your life seriously.
Cloudy urine doesn't seem like a simple reaction to a cold.
Could it be protein in the urine?
I don't know but if it were me I'd sure as heck want to know and I
mean really know what was there from a laboratory analysis. Knowledge
in such matters is empowering. Kidney failure and regular dialysis
isn't fun. OK, for some people who don't get out much at nights
staying overnight in hospital regularly is a whole new way to make
friends.
Having watched a lot of people respond to T2 diabetes I note two types
of error.
One assuming on some general principle that the side effects of oral
medication will be worse than leaving high blood glucose untreated.
They usually aren't. Your figures are especially high and from what
you have said previous would seem to have been so for some time.
IMHO this is not the time for farting around attempting to discover an
as yet undiscovered solution for T2. Your blood glucose levels are so
bad you may temporarily need insulin to bring them under control.
Assuming that no lifestyle change is required if one takes the oral
meds.
In reality it is often a combination of both that is required.
Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."
Frederic E Henzi
Your radical approach will make your diabetes worse, if not kill you.Your
views on how the pancreas, liver and other organs interact with exercise and
food is off the mark.
Relax and learn from the good advice you will get from the NG. You have
plenty of time to learn about controlling diabetes the easy way if you heed
the advice of the group and professionals.
You could start with very consistent eating habits, three meals a day with
no more than 30 carbs and about 600 calories in each meal. Test often,
before and twice after meals, record and plot the numbers and observe what
happens. Learn how to count carb content, protein and fat in meals. Walk and
do moderate exercise after meals.
Good luck
Fred Henzi
67,T2, diet&exercise, 60 g carb/day,no meds
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:bu4q3m$3k5$1...@news.tdl.com...
Ozgirl
"MrBill" <i...@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:po4c00t7jj5v5dvnr...@4ax.com...
> Phil
>
> You just (re) started trying to get your BGs into
control - it takes
> time, give it a while. Dramatic changes like starving
yourself by not
> eating is not good.
>
> I have no idea if you can drain the liver dry, but I
don't think you
> would want to - it's a buffer, it helps regulate your
energy. Throw in
> aggressive exercise - during which time your body is
asking for
> glucose, and you can get yourself into trouble.
Especially the ticker. Deprive the body so drastically
of essential nutrients especially calcium and with lots
of liquid, only, peeing out vital nutrients like
magnesium, potassium etc and the heart muscle just
might not cope. In my opinion, fwiw, Phil with his
higher than should be bg's, fanatical approach to good
nutrition and just plain stubbornness, is a walking
time bomb. I suspect the kidneys and heart will be the
first things to shoot him down unless he starts to take
some advice, even then it might be too late. Running
those bg's for however long (and even higher as he
states he has neuropathy when he is too so the numbers
have been even higher) have probably already done some
serious damage. There is only so far a person can press
their luck.
Mack
that's how you get hypos.Low BGs.
(it needs it maybe to dump in
>case you work suddenly and dont go low on glucose)...
the stored glycogen is a needed part of the body's natural defense
against hypos. Don't intentionally screw with it.
>
>I have fasted in the past with good effects but with no meter...you have
>explained what happened though...my feet react to too much glucose, and the
>first few days of a fast my feet get worse...then ever so slowly better
>after about 3 days on water and the next 4 on raw juice....it was the liver
>dumping glucose at the front end of the fast apparently that produced this.
>
and if you don't experience hypos midway or to the end of the fast,
when you return to eating solid food again you will have high BGs.
But since it was not a true fast seeing that you switched to juice
before going back on solids you simply avoided the hypos with liquid
carbs.
>Thanks for the insight.
>
>
>> That = high BG. Juice is fruit
>
>Not fruit..I agree thats bad...its juiced celery, parsely, beet tops, a
>touch of carrot, garlic, ginger etc.... NO fruits.
>
>
>> juice is loaded with carbs and little else. That's the worst thing a
>> diabetic can drink. Vegetable juice is lower in carbs, but is still all
>> carbs and contains no fiber, protein or fat. A diabetic might safely be
>> able to work one serving of vegetable juice in per day. But if it is your
>> intent to fast on only juice, you might as well check yourself in to the
>> hospital.
>
>So far, with no metering, drinking 32 oz of raw vegitable juice a day and
>then just water has worked miracles for me... my juicy friend says she lived
>on about 64 oz a day for years... will that work for me? or others?
and that's all she had?
Dont
>know....it has worked for many though there are books by these guys.... Paul
>Bragg died at over 90 on raw juices almost predominantly the last 50 years
>of his life...some salads. mmmv of course, I will be taking advice from
>this ng and testing and seeing what works and posting the numbers for better
>or worse with each iteration.
my grandfather never juiced as you describe above, just a single glass
of grapefruit juice at breakfast and then a normal american diet,
albeit mostly kosher. He died when he was over 100. Neither your
example or mine prove or disprove that juicing like you describe will
add to anyone's life span.
>
>
>
>> >
>> > My notion is to drive BG below 90, lower if I dont get low sugar
>> reactions,
>> > hold that for week or longer, as I continue to physically work... then
>> > control to BG=100 from there.
>>
>> You won't get low sugar reactions if you're drinking juice! Lord only
>knows
>> what will happen to you from drinking only water. Do you have a death
>wish?
>
>Ok now you know its not FRUIT juice..thats ok .... I and many others have
>done 3 day water fasts many times and its generally considered to be safe...
>fasting two days a week was recently reported on the Tee Vee to lenghten
>life span in rats...a widely reported study...
were these people diabetics? and vegetable juice though lower in
carbs than fruit juice is still mostly carbs since the fiber is
removed and it takes more vegetables to get that glass of juice than
you would consume if you were eating them whole. Fasting in rats has
little to do with humans.
>
>
>> >
>> > 3 years ago I did not get bruized finger tips from the little stabber
>> > device...now I have bruises whereever I took blood.... Does anyone have
>> > comments on how far south that is? What does one do about that sort of
>> > thing?
>>
>> I have never gotten bruises. Could be a vitamin deficiency. You
>certainly
>> will have one from fasting.
>
>I cheat. I take vitamins during a fast, but not heavily. and a lot of
>vitamin E and C during a fast.
adjust the depth gauge.
>
>Phil Scott, the beedie eyed cheatin bastid over there with his hand on
>monica's ass.
wash your hands before typing back to the group, everyone on the
planet knows where monica was.
Mack
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Phil Scott
Originally, 5 years ago, the pain in my feet went away with a lowering of BG
to 110 or so.... and these days it only comes back when I ate too much junk
food (not blood test)...but the test two days ago, was 214 BG after a
meal...and the feet didnt hurt...but they will hurt above 300 Id say.
But I hear you, you are saying that once the foot nerves go totally there is
no more sore feet and that IS a bad thing.... currently the numbness is felt
under pressure (foot pressed against something) but not a the surface so
much...the skin surface is still sensitive, what is going on there do you
have a guess?
> Never think you can tell how your BG is by how you feel. I've thought I
was
> having hypos when in fact I had high BG.
Thanks for the info, I wouldnt have guessed that.
I've had symptoms of hypo when my
> BG is fine. And then I've fainted because I was indeed having a hypo, but
> had no symptoms.
hmmmm... I will be testing for a year at least..probably for the rest of my
life at least a few times a week. But 3 times a day for now.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
"MrBill" <i...@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:po4c00t7jj5v5dvnr...@4ax.com...
> Phil
>
> You just (re) started trying to get your BGs into control - it takes
> time, give it a while. Dramatic changes like starving yourself by not
> eating is not good.
>
> I have no idea if you can drain the liver dry, but I don't think you
> would want to - it's a buffer, it helps regulate your energy.
When I fasted for 10 to 30 days in 1980 I would run into energy
problems...these days not so much. 3 days produces no drop in energy while
working hard with tools all day...4 days get a little weak...5 days light
headed and I have to cut back to a few hours...when I did 10 days on water
and *vegitable juice last year, I became weak and somewhat disoriented.
My current tactic is going to be water fast for another day, then raw juice
in much larger volumes for 3 days while checking blood sugar, and salads
with seafood etc if the sugar goes below 70....which I dont think it will...
if I get dizzy I guess I had better run the blood sugar up to 90? I will
see. and post the result. If I dont post you will know that I died.... no
more income tax...not such a bad deal.
>Throw in
> aggressive exercise - during which time your body is asking for
> glucose, and you can get yourself into trouble. BGs can change in a
> few minutes time.
In the 80's I could talk on the phone to much and get some strange sugar
type reactions cured by eating. (no meter, no diagnosis at that time
either)... now for the last few years I dont tend to have sudden changes,
even with hard work and no eating, I change very slowly now.
Odd hu?
>Suppose your liver does not have the reserve and you
> reduce the glucose level in your blood - no little sign pops up to
> say you are at "90 stop', the glucose will be drawn in to the muscles
> until you go too low. And then when you need some glucose to do
> something like - stand up - and it's not available.....
So far my situation seems to be a lot milder, even with diabetes...but in
the 70's I use to works so hard that that I could barely walk some
times...age for some reason *seems to have stabilized me
>
> And if you go too low - and eat too many carbs - it just shoots up
> high again, just because it was low, does not mean it will stay low.
Thanks for the info.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
"Ozgirl" <news_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bu5jut$dpjo2$1...@ID-139901.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "MrBill" <i...@nothere.com> wrote in message
> news:po4c00t7jj5v5dvnr...@4ax.com...
> > Phil
> >
> > You just (re) started trying to get your BGs into
> control - it takes
> > time, give it a while. Dramatic changes like starving
> yourself by not
> > eating is not good.
> >
> > I have no idea if you can drain the liver dry, but I
> don't think you
> > would want to - it's a buffer, it helps regulate your
> energy. Throw in
> > aggressive exercise - during which time your body is
> asking for
> > glucose, and you can get yourself into trouble.
>
> Especially the ticker. Deprive the body so drastically
> of essential nutrients especially calcium and with lots
> of liquid, only, peeing out vital nutrients like
> magnesium, potassium etc and the heart muscle just
> might not cope.
You get a total abundance of live vitamins, minerals and enzymes with raw
*green vegitable juice (leaves for me mostly to keep the carbs down, and
some carrot and beets for a few carbs).
>In my opinion, fwiw, Phil with his
> higher than should be bg's, fanatical approach to good
> nutrition and just plain stubbornness,
errr.....guilty as charged. but its made for an interesting life at least.
> is a walking
> time bomb. I suspect the kidneys and heart will be the
> first things to shoot him down unless he starts to take
> some advice, even then it might be too late.
Im going to be doing massive quantities of raw *vegitable juice, mostly
green leafies, with garlic and ginger. I will be the first to now if it
goes south or not and will post the ongoing scene with blood tests and other
indicators. Then the NG will know how that worked for me at least.
Progress maybe..or maybe not.
What is being done so far for diabetes is not overly impressive. If I go
down with this disease it will be giving it the most research, and trials
and study I can along the lines of what has generally proven workable for
others over the last 100 years...Raw juice has done a lot of good for a lot
of people...but in reading books on the subject they are a little light on
claims for diabetes...but not devoid of good results either.
> Running
> those bg's for however long (and even higher as he
> states he has neuropathy when he is too so the numbers
> have been even higher) have probably already done some
> serious damage.
I am afraid you might be correct in that regard. But I was doing other
things that had my full attention, the amyloid removal thing...time will
tell if that prevents any or all of the ravages of diabetes. my fingers
are crossed.
There is only so far a person can press
> their luck.
Correct Im sure, and all of us will hit the wall in the end, and at 63,
'The End is Near' (tm). ymmv. I hope you go past 100.
Phil Scott
>
Phil Scott
"Mack" <asdn...@example.com> wrote in message
news:7sdd00lo1s5r1mq16...@4ax.com...
I used to have that in the 80's if I worked too hard under too much
stress, thats when I had a crew of 27 men, and was talking all day. I got
to where talking under stress depleted me totally (cured by eating but no
blood test)....I had clogged corronarys at the time, since largely unclogged
( I can work hard 10 hours a day with no chest pain or terminal tiredness)
I dont tend at all to have low blood sugar problems fasting on water and wor
king hard until 3 or 4 days out, then its gradual. Not a sudden drop off to
dizzyness weak legs etc.
> (it needs it maybe to dump in
> >case you work suddenly and dont go low on glucose)...
>
> the stored glycogen is a needed part of the body's natural defense
> against hypos. Don't intentionally screw with it.
So far thats not a problem for me. a sudden drop off at least. Go figure.
It was in the old days. I did 70 chelation treatments...that helped the
heart considerably, none of the chelatonists (MD's btw) ive talked to used
it to treat diabetes and Ive not seen claims that it helps diabetes except
on one snake oil web site someone posted.
But I do not have sudden drops of blood sugar now, as I was *apparently
having in the early 80's.
> >I have fasted in the past with good effects but with no meter...you have
> >explained what happened though...my feet react to too much glucose, and
the
> >first few days of a fast my feet get worse...then ever so slowly better
> >after about 3 days on water and the next 4 on raw juice....it was the
liver
> >dumping glucose at the front end of the fast apparently that produced
this.
> >
>
> and if you don't experience hypos midway or to the end of the fast,
> when you return to eating solid food again you will have high BGs.
I hadnt tested that of course, but will know what happens with ending this
current fast, one more day on water and a few vitamins, then a week on large
volumes of *vegitable juice, mostly leaves, garlic, ginger and some small
amts of beets and carrots. I will be posting the BG nmbers along with BG
when I break the fast, which will be on raw fruit the first day, just before
bed, along with some acidophylus, then fasting in the AM until noon, then a
salad with vegitables and acidophysus and some kiefer, then I will probably
loose control and have some fish for dinner, raw tuna maybe.
The BG numbers will be interesting either way...I would not be surprised if
you will be found correct, but also not suprised if I can level it off at
110 to 120 with 140 right after a meal (but thats a hopeful wild
guess)...who knows I might do better.
> But since it was not a true fast seeing that you switched to juice
> before going back on solids you simply avoided the hypos with liquid
> carbs.
Correct. I call it a modified water fast for 2 days, since i take
vitamins...and modified juice fast since I add 2000 mg of vitamin E and
Glucosamine etc and whatever else grabs me except solid food. I did a
pure water fast for 30 days in the late 70;s...it did great damage,..and of
course some marginal good, getting rid of possible aberant growth tissue
along with some fat and unfortunately some muscle and organ tissue.
>
> >Thanks for the insight.
> >
> >
> >> That = high BG. Juice is fruit
> >
> >Not fruit..I agree thats bad...its juiced celery, parsely, beet tops, a
> >touch of carrot, garlic, ginger etc.... NO fruits.
> >
> >
> >> juice is loaded with carbs and little else. That's the worst thing a
> >> diabetic can drink. Vegetable juice is lower in carbs, but is still
all
> >> carbs and contains no fiber, protein or fat. A diabetic might safely
be
> >> able to work one serving of vegetable juice in per day. But if it is
your
> >> intent to fast on only juice, you might as well check yourself in to
the
> >> hospital.
> >
> >So far, with no metering, drinking 32 oz of raw vegitable juice a day and
> >then just water has worked miracles for me... my juicy friend says she
lived
> >on about 64 oz a day for years... will that work for me? or others?
>
> and that's all she had?
Yes for several years...many people do this. The Juice Man who use to sell
juicers on Tee Vee for instance and Paul Bragg who wrote 'Salads and
Juicing'...juicing home grown vegitables is the absolute finest, no fake
fertilizers...you get real good nutrition in much less juice that way, and
you can use the pulp to feed the dogs they love it, or make carrot cake etc.
>
> Dont
> >know....it has worked for many though there are books by these guys....
Paul
> >Bragg died at over 90 on raw juices almost predominantly the last 50
years
> >of his life...some salads. mmmv of course, I will be taking advice from
> >this ng and testing and seeing what works and posting the numbers for
better
> >or worse with each iteration.
>
> my grandfather never juiced as you describe above, just a single glass
> of grapefruit juice at breakfast and then a normal american diet,
> albeit mostly kosher. He died when he was over 100. Neither your
> example or mine prove or disprove that juicing like you describe will
> add to anyone's life span.
entirely correct.
Do you remember however when the medical profession refused to use trial
drugs on AIDS patients, even as they were breathing thier last? They said
"It might harm their health".... utter insanity you see. A very comon
condition.
Trying what has a good chance of working, especially if it has some good
basics under it is often a good idea imho.
Our american cooked diet, especially by microwave (that shakes food
particles 30,000 times a second) to heat them, is causing many problems
according to long established Russian research and other research that you
can look up on google and come to your own conclusions on.
So on that basis myself, I would advocate a person TRY a largely raw,
unprocessed food diet, with some lightly cooked meat, or raw fish, and
salads.... hardly an unhealthy diet, and see if there are beneficial changes
or not. For me there are gross and obvious beneficial effects from such a
diet.
ymmv
> >> > My notion is to drive BG below 90, lower if I dont get low sugar
> >> reactions,
> >> > hold that for week or longer, as I continue to physically work...
then
> >> > control to BG=100 from there.
> >>
> >> You won't get low sugar reactions if you're drinking juice! Lord only
> >knows
> >> what will happen to you from drinking only water. Do you have a death
> >wish?
> >
> >Ok now you know its not FRUIT juice..thats ok .... I and many others have
> >done 3 day water fasts many times and its generally considered to be
safe...
> >fasting two days a week was recently reported on the Tee Vee to lenghten
> >life span in rats...a widely reported study...
>
> were these people diabetics?
Not that I can specifically recall. some may very well have been. I am
diabetic however and get great results with raw *vegitable juice, thats
mostly green leafy, with garlic, ginger root, and small amt of beets and
carrots. (not tested or verified on a meter though, I will know what the
meter reads are over the next week, and will post them daily.)
This am fasting for 36 hours now on water, it was 119, but the blood sample
was thin over the dot so it may have been off...it tested 134 fasting
yesterday after a work out. so 119 might be close. I dont feel weak
yet...I will work out later today lightly...I dont think I will feel weak
then either, but my tommorrow I might start to feel a bit weak.
> and vegetable juice though lower in
> carbs than fruit juice is still mostly carbs since the fiber is
> removed and it takes more vegetables to get that glass of juice than
> you would consume if you were eating them whole. Fasting in rats has
> little to do with humans.
Rat studies turn out often not to be relevant to humans. Rat studies also
turn out many times to be completely relevant with humans. Time will
tell. For the individual on a anectdotal basis and over the next few
decades with formal research...and from there new issues will come up.
Those that live the longest will be lucky in many ways and some will have
tried workable tactics before formally proven in research.
Recent studies though, published i the news paper and on TV say that
fasting 2 days a week seems to greatly reduce illness in humans and extend
life..I dont have the link but you could probably find it on google about
3 months ago.
> >> > 3 years ago I did not get bruized finger tips from the little stabber
> >> > device...now I have bruises whereever I took blood.... Does anyone
have
> >> > comments on how far south that is? What does one do about that sort
of
> >> > thing?
> >>
> >> I have never gotten bruises. Could be a vitamin deficiency. You
> >certainly
> >> will have one from fasting.
> >
> >I cheat. I take vitamins during a fast, but not heavily. and a lot of
> >vitamin E and C during a fast.
>
> adjust the depth gauge.
Thanks, I did, that worked.
>
> >
> >Phil Scott, the beedie eyed cheatin bastid over there with his hand on
> >monica's ass.
>
> wash your hands before typing back to the group, everyone on the
> planet knows where monica was.
No need to mention the mustache problem.
Phil Scott
"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:qf4c00ltfoa5u91b0...@4ax.com...
> This post not CC'd by email
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:24:31 -0800, "Phil Scott"
> <phil...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> >BG tested 214 to start, 1 hour after eating, at 8pm yesterday
> >197 after 4 hours. (midnight) I'm in the middle of a cold and urine is
> >cloudy.
> >
> >Corrected to at least 134 fasting BG in the morning.
>
> G'day G'day Phil,
>
> You may want to take your life seriously.
:)
>
> Cloudy urine doesn't seem like a simple reaction to a cold.
> Could it be protein in the urine?
I get cloudy urine about once a year these days.... 20 years ago I got it
more frequently. but not so much at all since the chelations.
I started having cloudy urine at times just as this cold was coming on...its
been a strange cold, it didnt stay in my chest long at all, I didnt get
sore, but the inside of my nose is raw, (red scabs) first time in my life
that happened. I dont feel real bad, but am not up to working.
>
> I don't know but if it were me I'd sure as heck want to know and I
> mean really know what was there from a laboratory analysis. Knowledge
> in such matters is empowering.
It is. Id rather spend my money on the flat tracker for now however.
> Kidney failure and regular dialysis
> isn't fun. OK, for some people who don't get out much at nights
> staying overnight in hospital regularly is a whole new way to make
> friends.
Thats how I would look at it...although I will be doing hard core measures
to control the blood sugar from here on.
>
> Having watched a lot of people respond to T2 diabetes I note two types
> of error.
>
> One assuming on some general principle that the side effects of oral
> medication will be worse than leaving high blood glucose untreated.
> They usually aren't.
I agree, I need to get on oral meds.
>Your figures are especially high and from what
> you have said previous would seem to have been so for some time.
I think thats correct.
> IMHO this is not the time for farting around attempting to discover an
> as yet undiscovered solution for T2. Your blood glucose levels are so
> bad you may temporarily need insulin to bring them under control.
That surprises me, they are lower now than in 1998 or whenever I was
diagnosed and the dr said diet and excercise should control...it took a week
or two back then for me to get them to 110 fasting. its about the same
now.
>
> Assuming that no lifestyle change is required if one takes the oral
> meds.
>
> In reality it is often a combination of both that is required.
correct no doubt.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
"Frederic E Henzi" <f-h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%RqNb.70427$xy6.131285@attbi_s02...
> Phill,
> Your radical approach will make your diabetes worse, if not kill you.Your
> views on how the pancreas, liver and other organs interact with exercise
and
> food is off the mark.
Im sure thats correct... I will be learning a lot this week and posting
the numbers and getting feed back from there. If I stop posting you will
know the tactic was fatal...but it produced only more energy and good
feelings 6 months ago.
>
> Relax and learn from the good advice you will get from the NG. You have
> plenty of time to learn about controlling diabetes the easy way if you
heed
> the advice of the group and professionals.
From what Ive read that is correct...however I think that not too many on
the NG have tried raw juicing so dont know for sure its a good thing....
all of us will know more as I take this route for a week or two. (modifed
near the end with some raw fish and salads)
> You could start with very consistent eating habits, three meals a day with
> no more than 30 carbs and about 600 calories in each meal. Test often,
> before and twice after meals, record and plot the numbers and observe what
> happens. Learn how to count carb content, protein and fat in meals. Walk
and
> do moderate exercise after meals.
My body fat index is 25 (26 starts into the fat bracket)....I can tell have
10 lbs of fat to loose, so wouldnt eating less and exercising more help the
fat problem and by side effect the diabetes? With the workouts though 6
small meals are recommended per day, so the protien goes into making muscle
and not stored as fat
> Good luck
Thanks, and good luck to you too Fred.
Phil Scott
Julie Bove
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:bu6rne$hhi$1...@news.tdl.com...
> Originally, 5 years ago, the pain in my feet went away with a lowering of
BG
> to 110 or so.... and these days it only comes back when I ate too much
junk
> food (not blood test)...but the test two days ago, was 214 BG after a
> meal...and the feet didnt hurt...but they will hurt above 300 Id say.
That's because your body has become used to the high BG. I have pain when I
go above 150. Sine you weren't testing your BG, there is no telling how
high your BG went when you ate junk food. Could have been well >300.
>
> But I hear you, you are saying that once the foot nerves go totally there
is
> no more sore feet and that IS a bad thing.... currently the numbness is
felt
> under pressure (foot pressed against something) but not a the surface so
> much...the skin surface is still sensitive, what is going on there do you
> have a guess?
That is not what I was saying. I said that if your body becomes adjusted to
higher than normal BG, you might not notice the pain any more. As one who
lives with chronic pain almost almost every day, I know that sometimes you
don't even notice the pain until suddenly it's not there any more!
As for Neuropathy, it can cause pain, numbness, and lack of sensation, not
necessarily in that order and sometimes more than one problem at once. If
you are having those feelings, that's a sign that your Neuropathy is acting
up because your BG is too high. You need to do something about it.
> hmmmm... I will be testing for a year at least..probably for the rest of
my
> life at least a few times a week. But 3 times a day for now.
You should be testing at *least* twice a day, every day, for the rest of
your life. If you do not, you have no way of knowing how your BG is doing.
I've been on meds, off meds, then on meds again. All because my BG and
insulin resistance keep changing.
Ozgirl
"Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
> Correct Im sure, and all of us will hit the wall in
the end, and at 63,
> 'The End is Near' (tm). ymmv. I hope you go past
100.
Longevity is in my family but i want quality of life
over quantity. I don't want to live my last breaths
walking on stumps and on dialysis. You are a walking
time bomb because your bg's are high and instead of
making a real attempt to get them down you are fart
arsing around with whacko ideas. And at the same time
not feeding your body what it needs for good health.
So you have two things going against you, your apparent
inability to try and reduce your bg's and your lack of
good nutrition. Your juice diet is missing more good
nutrients than you obviously realise. In other words
you are clueless about what your body needs but want to
try a half baked remedy without knowing the full facts.
Can we sell you a cancer cure? You are the sucker the
spammers love to find.
W. Baker
: "Julie Bove" <jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
: news:100buqu...@corp.supernews.com...
: > >
: > > I will be fasting on water for a few days, then raw juice for a week,
: and
: > > posting the numbers.
: >
: I have fasted in the past with good effects but with no meter...you have
: explained what happened though...my feet react to too much glucose, and the
: first few days of a fast my feet get worse...then ever so slowly better
: after about 3 days on water and the next 4 on raw juice....it was the liver
: dumping glucose at the front end of the fast apparently that produced this.
: Not fruit..I agree thats bad...its juiced celery, parsely, beet tops, a
: touch of carrot, garlic, ginger etc.... NO fruits.
: So far, with no metering, drinking 32 oz of raw vegitable juice a day
and : then just water has worked miracles for me... my juicy friend says
she lived : on about 64 oz a day for years... will that work for me? or
others? Dont : know....it has worked for many though there are books by
these guys.... Paul : Bragg died at over 90 on raw juices almost
predominantly the last 50 years : of his life...some salads. mmmv of
course, I will be taking advice from : this ng and testing and seeing what
works and posting the numbers for better : or worse with each iteration.
Why not, at least, eat the vegetables? Why juice all the fiber out of
them? If you want to be a fegan, fine, but eat, rather than drink the
stuff.
Wendy
Phil Scott
>
>
>
>
> "Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
> news:bu6rne$hhi$1...@news.tdl.com...
>
>
> > Originally, 5 years ago, the pain in my feet went away with a lowering
of
> BG
> > to 110 or so.... and these days it only comes back when I ate too much
> junk
> > food (not blood test)...but the test two days ago, was 214 BG after a
> > meal...and the feet didnt hurt...but they will hurt above 300 Id say.
>
> That's because your body has become used to the high BG. I have pain when
I
> go above 150. Sine you weren't testing your BG, there is no telling how
> high your BG went when you ate junk food. Could have been well >300.
maybe but probably not, I ate about the same as when I tested a 214...but at
times it no doubt went over 300 for a day or so.
> >
> > But I hear you, you are saying that once the foot nerves go totally
there
> is
> > no more sore feet and that IS a bad thing.... currently the numbness is
> felt
> > under pressure (foot pressed against something) but not a the surface so
> > much...the skin surface is still sensitive, what is going on there do
you
> > have a guess?
>
> That is not what I was saying. I said that if your body becomes adjusted
to
> higher than normal BG, you might not notice the pain any more. As one who
> lives with chronic pain almost almost every day, I know that sometimes you
> don't even notice the pain until suddenly it's not there any more!
In this case it was dramatic...I dreaded walking more than 50' when it
cleared up I can walk a mile or two no problem at all
>
> As for Neuropathy, it can cause pain, numbness, and lack of sensation, not
> necessarily in that order and sometimes more than one problem at once. If
> you are having those feelings, that's a sign that your Neuropathy is
acting
> up because your BG is too high. You need to do something about it.
I can see its quite variable now, and that your advice is sound regardless
the details.
>
> > hmmmm... I will be testing for a year at least..probably for the rest
of
> my
> > life at least a few times a week. But 3 times a day for now.
>
> You should be testing at *least* twice a day, every day, for the rest of
> your life. If you do not, you have no way of knowing how your BG is
doing.
> I've been on meds, off meds, then on meds again. All because my BG and
> insulin resistance keep changing.
Thanks for that feedback.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
>
> "Phil Scott" <phil...@philscott.net> wrote in message
>
> > Correct Im sure, and all of us will hit the wall in
> the end, and at 63,
> > 'The End is Near' (tm). ymmv. I hope you go past
> 100.
>
> Longevity is in my family but i want quality of life
> over quantity. I don't want to live my last breaths
> walking on stumps and on dialysis. You are a walking
> time bomb because your bg's are high and instead of
> making a real attempt to get them down you are fart
> arsing around with whacko ideas.
well I wont be farting around much longer now that im testing, If I test
high Im doing whatever I have to to get it down...but still trying different
things at the same time, as long it lowers the BG
> And at the same time
> not feeding your body what it needs for good health.
Ok Ok...I ate a damn salmon salad and some brocolli... HAPPY now are you?
> So you have two things going against you, your apparent
> inability to try and reduce your bg's and your lack of
> good nutrition. Your juice diet is missing more good
> nutrients than you obviously realise. In other words
> you are clueless about what your body needs but want to
> try a half baked remedy without knowing the full facts.
If you had as many head injuries as I have on bikes YOU would be rummy too.
> Can we sell you a cancer cure? You are the sucker the
> spammers love to find.
Be nice. :)
Phil Scott
>
Phil Scott
"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:bu76sn$an5$1...@reader2.panix.com...
I think eating some of the vegitables whole is a good idea.
Phil Scott
>
> Wendy
>