Re: Very informative Vitamin D article
Peter G. (Bigbird)
"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
news:7kh0aiF...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/11180df8-beaa-11de-b4ab-00144feab49a.html
>
> Susan
Interesting, and it supports snippets I've read in various other contexts.
FWIW, without my prompting, my VA doctor tested for and prescribed D3 for
the first time this year. When the script was exhausted, I bought a larger
dose OTC version (less expensive for me). I think I feel better overall but
that's very subjective. YMMV
Peter G.
(bigbird)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Susan wrote:
> >
> > http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/11180df8-beaa-11de-b4ab-00144feab49a.html
> >
> > Susan
>
> Interesting, and it supports snippets I've read in various other contexts.
> FWIW, without my prompting, my VA doctor tested for and prescribed D3 for
> the first time this year. When the script was exhausted, I bought a larger
> dose OTC version (less expensive for me). I think I feel better overall but
> that's very subjective. YMMV
Because prescription D3 is 50,000 IU per softgel, it is unlikely that
your OTC version dose is larger because typically OTC D2 supplements
are at most 1000 IU.
As long as the D3/D2 is making you wonderfully hungrier, there should
be no suspicion of overdosing because as described in the cited
article, folks overdosing on Vitamin D experience nausea.
Be hungrier, which truly is healthier especially for the heart:
Love in the truth,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Trust the Truth:"
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
anon
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/11180df8-beaa-11de-b4ab-00144feab49a.html
>
> Susan
I have been taking 2000 IU vitamin D for 2 years now. My endo
recommended it because I rarely go out in the sun because of my bad back.
Ozgirl
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/11180df8-beaa-11de-b4ab-00144feab49a.html
>
> Susan
"And since 200 IU is enough to prevent rickets in children - assuming they
have at least a moderate amount of calcium in their diet - it was assumed
that 200 IU was sufficient. It was only in the following decades, as
scientists came to understand how vitamin D works in our bodies, that the
picture changed."
My sentiments exactly when I was trying to say that taking in just enough
nutrients to prevent nutrient deficiency diseases is not the same as taking
enough to offer optimum health and disease prevention. Thanks for the
article Susan.
Evelyn
An excellent article.
My doctor has me taking calcitriol.
--
Evelyn
"Even as a mother protects with her life her only child, So with a boundless
heart let one cherish all living beings." --Sutta Nipata 1.8
Loretta Eisenberg
separate Vitamin D pill.
I was anemic a bit, and he just started me on iron, Is this possible
that after only three days I had more vim, vigor and vitality or is it
mind over matter.
I come to ask you Susan, because I believe you would know the answer.
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
and when I was taking two a day, my vitamin D level was way too high,
but now on one supplement a day, it is perfect.
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
levels of D were so high they were getting toxic.
I am on ferrous sulphate.
Loretta
--
I
Ozgirl
> Susan, come to think of it, I am taking calcium with Vitamin D, not a
> separate Vitamin D pill.
>
> I was anemic a bit, and he just started me on iron, Is this possible
> that after only three days I had more vim, vigor and vitality or is it
> mind over matter.
As a person who has suffered low iron stores frequently over the past few
years I can categorically say yes Loretta, you can feel much more alive
after only a few days of iron therapy.
Ozgirl
> Susan, come to think of it, I am taking calcium with Vitamin D, not a
> separate Vitamin D pill.
>
> I was anemic a bit, and he just started me on iron, Is this possible
> that after only three days I had more vim, vigor and vitality or is it
> mind over matter.
This is the one I use Loretta, it works brilliantly and fast but I am not
sure if it is available where you are. I get it through a health food store.
http://www.completehealth.com.au/Products/Organic_Iron_24mg_~_For_Dietary_Iron_Deficiencies__30_tablets.aspx
My immediate symptoms of low iron are getting breathless when walking just a
few feet across a room, pale fingernail beds and inside the lower eye lids.
I also feel extremely lethargic.
Loretta Eisenberg
Loretta
--
I
Loretta Eisenberg
sneak food at night. There is a void needed to be filled. Not
eveverything is physical. I wasnt anemic until about a year ago. I
used to eat sara lee cakes straight from the freezer. Getting diabetes
saved my life
My name is Loretta and I am a compulsive eater who has control during
the day and so far tonight pretty good.
Loretta
--
I
Ozgirl
> Thanks for the information Jan. Do you take it every day.
>
> Loretta
I take it when necessary for a few weeks usually - double the dose
recommended on the bottle though. Mine is a women's problem and only about
3-4 monthly if you get my drift. Once the crisis is over I discontinue.
Ozgirl
> Susan, I have been a night eater all my life, I was fat so I used to
> sneak food at night. There is a void needed to be filled. Not
> eveverything is physical. I wasnt anemic until about a year ago. I
> used to eat sara lee cakes straight from the freezer. Getting
> diabetes saved my life
Ah, I remember frozen Sara Lee banana cake well :)
> My name is Loretta and I am a compulsive eater who has control during
> the day and so far tonight pretty good.
Inside of me is still a compulsive eater. I still eat big but most of what
I eat is low carb stuff and I can get away with it. Before I sit down at
night to watch a movie I pre prepare snacks. I have plain yoghurt and a bit
of some kind of fruit for the main snack - in the fridge in a bowl, waiting.
Sometimes I will cook some popcorn and share with my son who eats the bulk
of it. I keep veggies cut up in the fridge and things like salsa and cottage
cheese for dipping. Beside my chair I keep a bottle of water. Works for me.
If I don't prepare I am highly likely to go and grab a biscuit or a piece of
cake or whatever else is around.
Julie Bove
"BlueBrooke" <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:sqbae5dl6g630k64v...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:55:29 +1000, "Ozgirl"
> <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote:
>
>> Inside of me is still a compulsive eater. I still eat big but most of
>> what
>> I eat is low carb stuff and I can get away with it. Before I sit down at
>> night to watch a movie I pre prepare snacks. I have plain yoghurt and a
>> bit
>> of some kind of fruit for the main snack - in the fridge in a bowl,
>> waiting.
>> Sometimes I will cook some popcorn and share with my son who eats the
>> bulk
>> of it. I keep veggies cut up in the fridge and things like salsa and
>> cottage
>> cheese for dipping. Beside my chair I keep a bottle of water. Works for
>> me.
>> If I don't prepare I am highly likely to go and grab a biscuit or a piece
>> of
>> cake or whatever else is around.
>
> something easy to grab ready ahead of time. The other thing is to not
> have stuff that I shouldn't eat in the house in the first place, but
> that's not always possible. If I've got my own "goodies" on hand I
> don't even notice, or care, what anyone else is munching on. :-)
Aside from my planned snacks and hypos, the only things I eat between meals
(and I don't eat these things often) are nuts, seeds, pickles, olives and
maybe a spoonful of raw chocolate/coconut. Cheese would be on that list if
I were not allergic.
Ozgirl
>> of what I eat is low carb stuff and I can get away with it. Before I
>> sit down at night to watch a movie I pre prepare snacks. I have
>> plain yoghurt and a bit of some kind of fruit for the main snack -
>> in the fridge in a bowl, waiting. Sometimes I will cook some popcorn
>> and share with my son who eats the bulk of it. I keep veggies cut up
>> in the fridge and things like salsa and cottage cheese for dipping.
>> Beside my chair I keep a bottle of water. Works for me. If I don't
>> prepare I am highly likely to go and grab a biscuit or a piece of
>> cake or whatever else is around.
>
> something easy to grab ready ahead of time. The other thing is to not
> have stuff that I shouldn't eat in the house in the first place, but
> that's not always possible. If I've got my own "goodies" on hand I
> don't even notice, or care, what anyone else is munching on. :-)
Trying to imagine the kids' reaction if I only had cottage cheese and
crudites in the house... :) At night I am tired and it is so easy to just
grab a banana or sweet treat so I have to make sure I am well prepared, lol.
W. Baker
One reason that I always test between 1 and 2 hours after dinner(which is
often sometime after 7PM) is to control my urges towards after dinner
eating. If I have not tested, well, I can't eat beause I would ruin the
test results. If I test highish, well, I can't snack and if I test low it
is prettyclose to bed time so I only take a small snack(cheese, Wasa
cracker with PB , etc. It helps me. With kids around it would be harder
to eat late and to keep all the carby goodies out of the house, so that
makes it easier for me.
Wendy
Peppermint Patootie
Ron...@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote:
OK, but there may be a physiological reason for this, and maybe
something that can be *changed*.
PP
Ozgirl
>> Trying to imagine the kids' reaction if I only had cottage cheese and
>> crudites in the house... :)
>
> Well, (1) I only have one kid and (2) he's used to it by now and (3)
> you're a better Mom than I am! LOL!
No, I'd say I'm a weaker one. All of my kids have always been able to get
around me as they know I am a soft touch.
> With a few notable exceptions -- for instance, he eats a lot of bread
> and I'm tellin' ya that toast smell is hard to resist! -- he pretty
> much eats what I do. I did get him a "real" pizza last night, though.
> :-)
We have 3 squares here a day which is usually healthy as I mostly cook from
scratch, rarely packeted food but do use some frozen veggies and canned
foods (canned tomatoes, legumes, corn for salads. Frozen beans, peas and
corn cobs). But the snack foods..... could be anything from popcorn (not too
bad) to potato chips (ok in moderation) to cakes and chocolate biscuits.
Corn cips and salsa are always on the list.
>> At night I am tired and it is so easy to just
>> grab a banana or sweet treat so I have to make sure I am well
>> prepared, lol.
>
> Ah -- bananas. Love those. They don't love me, though. :-D
I had about 1/4 of a banana in my yoghurt last night with a few berries. Was
kind to me :)
> If you aren't ready, it can be hard to come up with a "good" snack
> during a commercial break. Got a DVR a few weeks ago, though --
> lovin' that! Remembering to use it is the next step. ;-)
lol
> Lessee -- I make sure I've got lots of nuts and cheese and beef
> sticks. And we make up a batch of yogurt about every week and put
> frozen fruit in that for "ice cream," though now that the weather is
> getting colder, that's not sounding so good today. :-)
I have never been overly keen on frozen yoghurt, probably becasue I am
expecting it to taste like ice cream :) Although I do get a nice ABC type
yoghurt that has berries and it is not bitter and still bg kind. So that
might taste ok frozen.
> I was going to say "getting back on topic" but realize I have nothing
> to say about Vit D -- LOL!
You don't pop your vit D with a meal? :)
Alan S
<blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> > I was going to say "getting back on topic" but realize I have nothing
>> > to say about Vit D -- LOL!
>>
>> You don't pop your vit D with a meal? :)
>
>Um -- oops. No. :-)
>
>So far, I get my Vit D outside -- for free. You knew that was coming.
>:-D
I get mine for free too; easy here on the 28th parallel.
Unfortunately the lovely sunshine didn't just add good vitamin D, it
also added skin cancers. So now I stay indoors a little more and pop
1000IU vit D each morning.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
--
d&e, metformin 2000 mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com (Food, Farmers and Factories)
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com (The King's Highway, Jordan)
Alice Faber
BlueBrooke <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:20:58 +1100, Alan S
> <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:27:30 -0500, BlueBrooke
> > <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >> > I was going to say "getting back on topic" but realize I have nothing
> > >> > to say about Vit D -- LOL!
> > >>
> > >> You don't pop your vit D with a meal? :)
> > >
> > >Um -- oops. No. :-)
> > >
> > >So far, I get my Vit D outside -- for free. You knew that was coming.
> > >:-D
> >
> > I get mine for free too; easy here on the 28th parallel.
> >
> > Unfortunately the lovely sunshine didn't just add good vitamin D, it
> > also added skin cancers. So now I stay indoors a little more and pop
> > 1000IU vit D each morning.
>
> Actually, I don't believe it does. I'm more afraid of pills than I am
> of sunshine. :-)
>
> I'm wondering if there are any statistics on how many people were
> getting skin cancer before, oh say, 1950 or 1960? I've reviewed a lot
> of death certificates and not a single one so far has listed skin
> cancer as a cause of death. Lots of diabetes and heart diseases of
> all kinds -- and yes, lots of cancers. But not a single skin cancer,
> not even listed as contributing. And most of these people were
> farmers.
>
> Yes, just more anecdotal stuff. But I'm guessing if spending the day
> in the sun was that bad, a farmer would be the one it would show up
> on.
If he lived long enough...
--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest
terryc
> I'm wondering if there are any statistics on how many people were
> getting skin cancer before, oh say, 1950 or 1960?
Hats and Erroll Flynn not wearing his singlet in movies.
Alan S
>> Unfortunately the lovely sunshine didn't just add good vitamin D, it
>> also added skin cancers. So now I stay indoors a little more and pop
>> 1000IU vit D each morning.
>
>Actually, I don't believe it does. I'm more afraid of pills than I am
>of sunshine. :-)
>
I have had two malignant ones excised in the past few years (got all
of them, happily). I had 11 small enough to be zapped by the liquid
nitrogen last month. That's pretty normal for me in a year. I no
longer wait for them to develop far enough to discover whether they
are going to become nasty.
>I'm wondering if there are any statistics on how many people were
>getting skin cancer before, oh say, 1950 or 1960? I've reviewed a lot
>of death certificates and not a single one so far has listed skin
>cancer as a cause of death. Lots of diabetes and heart diseases of
>all kinds -- and yes, lots of cancers. But not a single skin cancer,
>not even listed as contributing. And most of these people were
>farmers.
>
>Yes, just more anecdotal stuff. But I'm guessing if spending the day
>in the sun was that bad, a farmer would be the one it would show up
>on.
Maybe Australia is a little different:
http://www.melanomapatients.org/content/view/133/241/
Incidence of Melanoma
1) Melanoma is the fourth most common cancer in Australia.
2) The Lifetime risk of developing Melanoma is 1 in 29.2
3) In 2001 there were 8,885 Australians diagnosed with melanoma
and 1074 died from melanoma.
More details:
http://www.skincancer.gov.au/internet/skincancer/publishing.nsf/Content/fact-3
Alice Faber
BlueBrooke <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:56:02 +0000, Nicky <ukc802...@btconnect.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:08:52 -0500, BlueBrooke
> > <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >I'm wondering if there are any statistics on how many people were
> > >getting skin cancer before, oh say, 1950 or 1960?
> >
> > It is kind of interesting, isn't it. I don't recall anyone getting the
> > little melanomas, etc when I was a kid in Africa; I'm certain my Dad
> > didn't, and he spent most days in the sun for his job, and he's 87.
>
> Same here. We grew up in California, which certainly isn't Africa,
> but everyone was pretty tanned, before tanning beds. I don't recall
> hearing much about skin cancers until around the time we were being
> told we weren't supposed to eat eggs, either. :-)
>
> > However, I wouldn't want to fry too much these days; I suspect changes
> > in the ozone layer?
>
> I'm too old to fry anymore. :-)
>
> The ozone layer, perhaps, but I think there's something else going on,
> too. It's hard to find any skin-care product anymore that doesn't
> have SPF something -- and yet it's still an issue and now we Vit D
> deficiencies, too?
>
> I think the sun exposure/skin cancer "thing" is just another, "Oh,
> gosh! Let's try this and see what happens!" Kind of like the food
> pyramid. :-)
I was at a cocktail party about 10 years ago at which I had a
fascinating conversation with a guy who was an FDA compliance officer
with a "natural" supplement company. At the time, it was sort of
hit-or-miss whether people who took calcium supplements were taking the
calcium + D, and this guy was talking about vitamin D deficiencies as
part of the law of unintended consequences; we'd had about 15 years of
people being told to slather on the SPF 30 whenever they left the house.
This was maybe 5 years before you started hearing about fairly routine
testing of vitamin D levels.
As to the increase in melanoma rates, when environmental activists
started talking about the ozone hole, they were specifically concerned
with the southern hemisphere and possible increases in skin cancer
resulting from the decreased ozone. So, there's probably been a
substantial increase in screening, which leads to earlier identification
of potential problems.
Alan S
<blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:58:03 +1100, Alan S
><loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:08:52 -0500, BlueBrooke
>> <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >> Unfortunately the lovely sunshine didn't just add good vitamin D, it
>> >> also added skin cancers. So now I stay indoors a little more and pop
>> >> 1000IU vit D each morning.
>> >
>> >Actually, I don't believe it does. I'm more afraid of pills than I am
>> >of sunshine. :-)
>> >
>> I have had two malignant ones excised in the past few years (got all
>> of them, happily). I had 11 small enough to be zapped by the liquid
>> nitrogen last month. That's pretty normal for me in a year. I no
>> longer wait for them to develop far enough to discover whether they
>> are going to become nasty.
>
>Sorry to hear about those troubles, Alan, and glad to hear you're
>catching them early.
>
>How long have you been taking the Vit D? I'm not trying to set you
>up. I'm wondering if you think it's making any difference?
>
Only a few months. I started after getting a low (but in range) result
on a blood test and after a year or so reading the Heartscan blog by
Dr Davis.
I only take a low dose of 1000IU; I haven't repeated the vit D blood
test since so I won't know if it has had an effect for a while. The
pills are cheap so I'll keep doing it at least until that test.
>> >I'm wondering if there are any statistics on how many people were
>> >getting skin cancer before, oh say, 1950 or 1960? I've reviewed a lot
>> >of death certificates and not a single one so far has listed skin
>> >cancer as a cause of death. Lots of diabetes and heart diseases of
>> >all kinds -- and yes, lots of cancers. But not a single skin cancer,
>> >not even listed as contributing. And most of these people were
>> >farmers.
>> >
Melanoma is a major cause of death by cancers in this country. More
info on that link i gave you.
>> >Yes, just more anecdotal stuff. But I'm guessing if spending the day
>> >in the sun was that bad, a farmer would be the one it would show up
>> >on.
>>
>> Maybe Australia is a little different:
>> http://www.melanomapatients.org/content/view/133/241/
>>
>> Incidence of Melanoma
>>
>> 1) Melanoma is the fourth most common cancer in Australia.
>>
>> 2) The Lifetime risk of developing Melanoma is 1 in 29.2
>>
>> 3) In 2001 there were 8,885 Australians diagnosed with melanoma
>> and 1074 died from melanoma.
>>
>> More details:
>> http://www.skincancer.gov.au/internet/skincancer/publishing.nsf/Content/fact-3
>
>I'm probably missing it -- I'm doing the "I'll get up for awhile and
>see how I feel" thing and I'm thinking I'm heading back to bed <g> --
>but the stats I see are fairly recent.
>
>My question was about occurrence pre-1960 or so. I'm not arguing that
>it isn't an issue now -- in the U.S. or in Australia. What I'm
>wondering is how much of a problem it was 50 years ago.
No idea.
Try Google scholar:-)
Alan S
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Alan S wrote:
>
>> I have had two malignant ones excised in the past few years (got all
>> of them, happily). I had 11 small enough to be zapped by the liquid
>> nitrogen last month. That's pretty normal for me in a year. I no
>> longer wait for them to develop far enough to discover whether they
>> are going to become nasty.
>
>That's a really low dose of vit D3 if you're sun avoidant, depending
>upon your serum levels.
>
>You might want to do a Medline search wrt curcumin and silibinin
>(turmeric and milk thistle/silymarin) and melanoma protection and
>reversal of tumors.
>
>Susan
I've written separately on curcumin; I also add piperine to that daily
in my diet.
Peabody
> If you're very anemic, you might feel a boost that soon
> if it's working. My endocrinologist recommends Jarrow
> brand Ironsorb as the most bioavailable and quality
> controlled iron supplement. He also tests ferritin to
> see if it's working, it shows up there where other tests
> might miss it.
Susan, do you have a feel for what your doctor thinks is an
appropriate ferritin level, and why? All of my normal blood
tests relating to iron have always been completly normal,
but my ferritin level has always been low - usually
somewhere in the teens, and below the bottom of the
"typical" range. The most recent was 18.
My understanding is that ferritin is a measure of iron
stores in the body, and from what I've read, so long as the
other tests are normal (serum iron, hemoglobin, etc.), the
lower the ferritin level, the better. That's because iron
in excess tends to cause problems.
I even got a colonoscopy once because the doctor thought the
low ferritin might be an indicator of internal bleeding, but
it was completely normal, and I've never had a positive
occult blood test result.
So with all the other tests normal, and no sign of anemia,
and no bleeding, my doctor just gave up. Based on blood
tests, he saw no reason to supplement iron.
If you know of a technical explanation for why a low
ferritin level is bad for you when all the other tests are
normal, I'd sure like to see it.
I hope you are well.
Chris Malcolm
>> >> >I'm wondering if there are any statistics on how many people were
>> >> >getting skin cancer before, oh say, 1950 or 1960? I've reviewed a lot
>> >> >of death certificates and not a single one so far has listed skin
>> >> >cancer as a cause of death. Lots of diabetes and heart diseases of
>> >> >all kinds -- and yes, lots of cancers. But not a single skin cancer,
>> >> >not even listed as contributing. And most of these people were
>> >> >farmers.
>> >> >
>>
>> Melanoma is a major cause of death by cancers in this country. More
>> info on that link i gave you.
> I understand that. I wasn't talking about current statistics. I was
> talking about my belief that skin cancers are a relatively recent
> health threat.
I can think of two things about skin sun exposure of white folks which
happen a lot today, and happened very little in earlier times. The
first is the fashion for tanning and taking holidays in sunny places
means that people are much more at risk of burning from a lot of
unaccustomed exposure in a short time. Whereas in earlier times those
whose lives brought them outside into the sunlight simply adapted by
slowly tanning without burning as the season chnged from winter to
summer. It's the burning that provokes the development of skin
cancers. Tanning without burning is far less of a risk.
The second thing is frying yourself for hours in the sun with some
kind of chemical concoction on your skin which blocks UV and lets you
lie for much longer in the sun. I've never been able to understand the
logic of that. Why lie for two hours in the sun with a twelve factor
sunblock when you could get the same tan from ten minutes without the
sunblock? Ten minutes in the sun sounds a lot less dangerous to me
than two hours covered in an allegedly safe chemical brew.
So I refuse to wear sunblock. I protect myself from sunburn by simply
limiting my exposure. So when my wife and I go on holiday in the sun
she lies for hours on the beach wearing sunblock, whereas I start by
limiting myself at first to ten minutes and then putting on clothes
and a hat.
She thinks I'm mad not to use sunblock, and will inevitably end up
much paler than her or horribly sunburnt. But at the end of the
holiday I'm always much browner than she is, and able to take a lot
more sun exposure on untreated skin without burning. Yet back under
Scotland's rarer and weaker sunlight we both tan or burn at pretty
much the same rate when no sunblock is involved.
It's obviously going to take several more repetitions of this
experiment before she will be prepared to accept that she, and the
women's magazines she reads, are gullible victimes of the advertising
of the sunblock makers :-)
--
Chris Malcolm
Wildbilly
BlueBrooke <blueb...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> How long would be long enough? Today, we've got people in their 40s,
> 50s and 60s who have skin cancers -- these guys lived at least that
> long.
>
> It's a bit of a misunderstanding that people weren't long lived. The
> average life span was reduced by infant and child mortality. If you
> managed to make it past childhood, you were in pretty good shape.
> Unless you were a woman. Women of childbearing age deserved hazardous
> duty pay.
>
> There were still plenty of 60, 70, 80 and even 90 year olds to go
> around. :-)
I grew up in Orange County, CA, as much as anyone did. Born in '43.
Melanoma was considered a nuisance and a price to be paid for living in
California. Most days Huntington Beach, and Huntington Beach State Park
were full of sunbathers. I'm sure it hasn't gotten any better. I'm
surprised to hear that melanoma is a scourge in Australia.
--
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm