Re: Omega 3 news
sharppointy1
Are there any omega 3 fish oil supplements that don't cause a fishy
aftertaste?
She who would benefit from the omega 3 oils but cannot stand the fish
burps. (never been fond of fish going the right way- REALLY don't like
it coming back up.....)
Quentin Grady
On 11 Apr 2006 09:57:06 -0700, "sharppointy1"
<sharpp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hey Susan
>Are there any omega 3 fish oil supplements that don't cause a fishy
>aftertaste?
G'day G'day sharppointy1
Yes. They have reflux proof capsules. The capsules I have seen are
milky white and cost a couple of dollars more per 200 capsules.
The other more expensive approach is to buy pharmaceutical grade fish
oil.
>She who would benefit from the omega 3 oils but cannot stand the fish
>burps. (never been fond of fish going the right way- REALLY don't like
>it coming back up.....)
Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsnutrition4697043apr11,0,3151808,print.story?coll=ny-health-print
>
>"Besides helping heal the brain, omega-3, which is probably one of the
>most studied natural supplements, has passed muster in helping heal the
>heart, pancreas, immune system and joints. Potent anti-inflammatories,
>omega-3 fish oil supplements contain the same fatty acids - DHA and EPA
>- found in fish. Scientists say the American diet is so depleted of
>these fatty acids that supplements are not just useful, but necessary."
>
>Susan
G'day G'day Susan,
The article though interesting isn't to be taken seriously. The most
obvious clue is that the writer refers to DHA and EPA as amino acids
which are of course the building blocks of proteins not fats.
That said, it does contain a comment by Dr. Walter Willett, chairman
of nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health. Him I do take
seriously.
Billie
(for my eyes), omega-3 fish oil (just from information I had gleaned myself :). The borage and
flaxseed were prescribed by two different doctors (endo and ophthalmologist). I had been taking
it two times a day, but am having so much trouble with the Sjogren's effects on my eyes that I
recently upped it to three times, and *think* I can tell a difference. We are just having a
really hard time with my eyes (cornea problem). I am having to put all kinds of drops in, just
to see *fairly* good.
Billie
--
bh-wages at swbell.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Susan" <neve...@nomail.com> wrote in message news:4a1srlF...@individual.net...
: x-no-archive: yes
Chakolate
news:1144774626.5...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Have you tried taking the supplements before bed? You might sleep
through the beluga burps.
Chak
--
Any sufficiently advanced bureaucracy is indistinguishable from molasses.
Jennifer
http://www.provitaminas.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=160184
No I have no stock in Jarrow. They are merely a company I trust.
I have never had a fishy burp... or any burps from them. I take four a day.
And the prices at Provitaminas are good (with free shipping for most
orders). The price at the link above is for four bottles.
Jennifer
bittersweet
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>I rarely get any fishy burps/aftertaste if I take them at the end of a meal.
>
>Susan
Is flax oil as effective as fish oil, omega-3-wise?
--bittersweet
Terry Stone
Terry
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>> Is flax oil as effective as fish oil, omega-3-wise?
>>
>> --bittersweet
>
>I don't think so, I'm pretty sure it's not, but I don't remember the
>exact particulars, re: omega balance.
>
>Susan
G'day G'day Bittersweet and Susan,
IMHO,the question and answer are without meaning.
Ask yourselves "Effective for what?"
Then you will have a question that might be able to be answered.
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>The stuff I take is distilled, maybe that helps. I buy it that way so
>that any mercury or organophosphates are removed.
>
>Susan
G'day G'day Susan,
Some of the Australian brands are purified by molecular sieves.
AFAiK, the ordinary distillation process will rid one of the mercury
so mercury is not a problem with any food grade fish oil. The
organophosphates need something more. Pharmaceutical grade ensures
this regardless of what the stated process is.
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529425?sssdmh=dm1.188670&src=nldne
>
>Omega 3 for neck and lower back pain vs. NSAIDS.
>
>Susan
G'day G'day Susan,
The article fascinated me since it is highly relevant to my
situation. The last four weeks have been trying for me. In the worst
week, I had worse pain and was only able to work a few hours. I needed
to buy fish oil as I had run out but put it off waiting for my wife to
get paid. It could have been the stress so don't read too much into
it being the worst week for pain. This week I have suffered more from
break through happiness. <grin> And yes I have a bottle of salmon
oil and am taking 6 tablets daily. OK, it is most likely a
coincidence.
For those who wish to be skeptical I can even give you some support.
Hey, what is a support group for if we don't help people with their
aspirations. <grin>
The research was done by a group with a vested interest in selling
fish oil and they ran the trial without a placebo arm or a "best
alternative conventional med."
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Quentin Grady wrote:
>
>> The article though interesting isn't to be taken seriously. The most
>> obvious clue is that the writer refers to DHA and EPA as amino acids
>> which are of course the building blocks of proteins not fats.
>
>Yes, I questioned my own cognitive defects when I read that, scanning
>furiously for the words "essential fatty acids."
>
>>
>> That said, it does contain a comment by Dr. Walter Willett, chairman
>> of nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health. Him I do take
>> seriously.
>
>I was kind of amazed that the neurologist had called Barry Sears; why
>not a real researcher?
G'day G'day Susan,
I had much the same thoughts. My take on it was the neurologist as
an ordinary human being was impressed by Barry Sears. If any placebo
effect was to do the rounds then it was important that the neurologist
exuded confidence. He was passionate about Barry Sears. He is
unlikely to have had such passion for some research on a dozen
rodents. He would have exuded natural scientific diffidence.
>OTOH, the miner in question had multiple organ
>failure and was near death and brain damaged when found barely
>conscious. No one predicted the amount of recovery he's had, much less
>the speed.
Nor could they have made such a prediction. This is another part of
the reason why the neurologist couldn't turn to a "real researcher". A
real researcher would have had to had several hundred near death
miners barely conscious with brain damage to get a statistically
significant sample. I'm trying to the imagine the ethics committee
deliberating on that one. <grin>
>Susan
Chakolate
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529425?sssdmh=dm1.188670&src=nldne
>
> Omega 3 for neck and lower back pain vs. NSAIDS.
Interesting. I was just noticing today that my neck isn't as stiff as it
used to be. I was crediting glucosamine, but who knows?
LizardQueen
One trick that a friend told me about was to freeze the capsules then
swallow them. No fish burps that way. I haven't tried it myself.
I'm currently taking Carlson's cod liver oil (lemon flavored) - I was
expecting it to be awful but it has no fishy taste at all, amazing
since it's not in a capsule. It tastes sort of like a faintly off,
lemony olive oil, really not bad.
LQ
Chris Malcolm
> Susan <neve...@nomail.com> wrote in news:4a2kpfF...@individual.net:
>> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/529425?sssdmh=dm1.188670&src=nldne
>>
>> Omega 3 for neck and lower back pain vs. NSAIDS.
> Interesting. I was just noticing today that my neck isn't as stiff as it
> used to be. I was crediting glucosamine, but who knows?
My joints seem to respond to different things. My slightly dodgy left
hip joint, which untreated gives me an almost imperceptible limp,
responds very well to glucosamine. My left knee joint, which is
usually ok but is easily hurt, doesn't respond to glucosamine, but
does respond well to spoonfuls of cod liver oil, which may well be the
omega-3s in it. My right big toe joint, which is visibly swollen,
always hurts a bit, and is the worst joint I have, doesn't respond to
glucosamine, responds a bit to cod liver oil, but responds very well
to spoonfuls of cider vinegar with a dash of honey. My two thumb
joints, which hurt if over-exercised, pushed to extreme positions, or
very heavily stressed, are like my big toe joint in not responding to
glucosamine, responding a bit to cod liver oil, and responding very
well to the cider vinegar.
I'm still searching for the remedy which will help my left elbow,
which I damaged a year ago with an over-enthusiastic training schedule
of pullups, and is still too injured to tolerate more than the
occasional one single strength-maintaining pullup. That's not a joint
problem, it's a tendon problem akin to tennis or golf elbow.
It's so useful having a diverse collection of aches and pains with
which to feel one's way through the minefields of diagnoses and
treatments :-)
--
Chris Malcolm c...@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Chakolate
@individual.net:
> It's so useful having a diverse collection of aches and pains with
> which to feel one's way through the minefields of diagnoses and
> treatments :-)
>
LOL! Who needs volunteers for a study if one has one's own test subjects
right in the body. :-)
Alan S
<neve...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>Anyhoo, I'm just glad this week is better for you than the last one.
>Here's to outbreaks of sheer joy. :-)
I'll go along with that; we used to have regular "Snoopy
Happy Dances" here, not so often these days.
Who was that? Kate?
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
TigerLily
dance for every A1c in the 5's ! ! !
i must be missing some messages..........
oops............
snoopy happy dance for all A1c's of 5.X this
month! ! !
kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own
experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience
can be
an expensive teacher.
"Alan S" <loralweig...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote in message
news:b5rt32t6bknfd7ndi...@4ax.com...
Chris Malcolm
> Have you considered *trying* a good ole NSAID???? ;-)
> When I get joint pain and/or swelling, doxycycline gets rid of it.
I used to take Asacol for ulcerative colitis. It was marginally useful
for the colon inflammation, and wasn't any good for the joint pains I
had at that time. Now SAIDs on the other hand worked wonderfully for
all my pains, but sent my adrenals into a retirement which it took
over a year to coax them out of.
When you say doxycyline gets rid of your joint pains, do you mean they
go for quite a while? I've found nothing so far for mine which does
more than just reduce the pain while I'm taking it. My doc tells me
that my joint pains are just going to get worse as I age, but I
haven't forgotten that my doctors have been wrong more than once about
things that I was never going to recover from.
Quentin Grady
<loralweig...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:43:29 -0400, Susan
><neve...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Anyhoo, I'm just glad this week is better for you than the last one.
>>Here's to outbreaks of sheer joy. :-)
G'day G'day Susan, Alan S, et al,
It helps. Just talking about outbreaks of sheer joy helps.
To make sense of what you are saying I have to experience a smidgeon
or two of sheer joy.
BTW. Thanks for spelling "sheer" for me.
>I'll go along with that; we used to have regular "Snoopy
>Happy Dances" here, not so often these days.
Yeeeeeh. Hurray for Snoopy dances and 5% certificates.
Celebrating is so, so important as part of support.
>Who was that? Kate?
>
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Best wishes,
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>yeah....... it was me..... i'd do a snoopy happy
>dance for every A1c in the 5's ! ! !
>
>i must be missing some messages..........
>oops............
>
>snoopy happy dance for all A1c's of 5.X this
>month! ! !
>
>kate
G'day G'day Kate,
I try not to think of lap dances but it never works.
You have no idea of the comments I have received since buying the
recliner chair. Arrgh ... perhaps now you have. <grin>
Nicky
"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:5ptv32lgqc1899s9c...@4ax.com...
> You have no idea of the comments I have received since buying the
> recliner chair. Arrgh ... perhaps now you have. <grin>
<coffee on screen> does it have a massage function? :D
Nicky.
--
A1c 10.5/5.4/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/74/72Kg
Andrea2
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsnutrition4697043apr11,0,3151808,print.story?coll=ny-health-print
>
>"Besides helping heal the brain, omega-3, which is probably one of the
>most studied natural supplements, has passed muster in helping heal the
>heart, pancreas, immune system and joints. Potent anti-inflammatories,
>omega-3 fish oil supplements contain the same fatty acids - DHA and EPA
>- found in fish. Scientists say the American diet is so depleted of
>these fatty acids that supplements are not just useful, but necessary."
>
>Susan
I was taking 4 grams of omega-3 (fish oil) before I was pregnant. At
my first OB appointment, I had to list all meds, OTC meds and
supplements that I was taking. I had already stopped metformin and the
only one left was the omega-3. He told me to stop taking it, it was
better to eat a "balanced diet". The only supplement he allows is the
vitamin supplement he prescribed.
If fish oil is so good for you, even babies, why would they make me
stop taking it? A previous doctor had told me to take 4 grams a day to
help with a vascular deficiency in my legs.
Andrea2
Type 2
Ricavito
Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> Andrea2 wrote:
>
> > If fish oil is so good for you, even babies, why would they make me
> > stop taking it? A previous doctor had told me to take 4 grams a day to
> > help with a vascular deficiency in my legs.
>
> supplementation, is my guess.
>
> Susan
Susan, is fish oil actually an anticoagualent by itself or does it just
intensify the effects of asprin or other blood thinners? When my
husband had sinus surgery, he was told to stop all blood thinning meds
a week beforehand. After the procedure, the surgeon told me she was
unable to do the extensive surgery she intended because he ws bleeding
so freely. He had been told to stop taking fish oil supplements, but
was still eating a flaxseed oil enriched porridge for breakfast, and
she figured that was what did it.
I'm still surprised that it could have had such a dramatic effect.
Quentin Grady
<andrea6192001nospam@yahoolcom> wrote:
>I was taking 4 grams of omega-3 (fish oil) before I was pregnant. At
>my first OB appointment, I had to list all meds, OTC meds and
>supplements that I was taking. I had already stopped metformin and the
>only one left was the omega-3. He told me to stop taking it, it was
>better to eat a "balanced diet". The only supplement he allows is the
>vitamin supplement he prescribed.
>
>If fish oil is so good for you, even babies, why would they make me
>stop taking it?
G'day G'day Andrea2,
We can only speculate.
One reason might be fear of excess vit A. I say fear of excess vitamin
A since that thinking would require confusion with cod liver oil.
A second reason might have been to underline the importance of taking
the vitamin supplement he prescribed. Perhaps he might have been
afraid if you had to choose which to take what with the expenses
involved you might not keep up the vitamin prescription. IMHO unless
the vitamin prescription was for folic acid, vitamin supplements are
likely to be doing more mischief than the benefits that would offer.
The whole idea smacks of assuming the "balance diet" was deficient in
minerals and vitamins. As most of us have gathered by now vitamin
supplements tend to be unbalanced, containing, for example, only a few
of the B group vitamins with more of the cheaper ones and less of the
expensive ones. On top of that, synthetic vitamins while have the
right proportions of atoms in the right positions in the molecular
chains but nearly always have the wrong stereochemistry (shape) When
we take wrong shape molecules they often don't work and in fact block
the absorption of the correctly shaped ones from food. IMHO it makes
more sense to spend more on better quality food.
The bottom line is they most likely made know difference to the
desired outcome. If you fallen for the sea salt fad, perhaps they
provided some iodine which helped infant brain development. It is all
open to speculation and any benefits that accrued were likely to have
been from some reason other than the one's you had been given.
The case for folic acid supplementation is in a different category.
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Quentin Grady wrote:
>
>> I try not to think of lap dances but it never works.
>
>LOL!!
>
>Try thinking of *Snoopy* giving lap dances; that'll cure it.
G'day G'day Susan,
You know what I can't. That makes two things I know I can't do ...
make apple crumble and think of "Snoopy" giving lap dances. Sigh.
>> You have no idea of the comments I have received since buying the
>> recliner chair. Arrgh ... perhaps now you have. <grin>
>
>:-)
I was quite blown away the first time it happened to me.
>Susan
Quentin Grady
<ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:5ptv32lgqc1899s9c...@4ax.com...
>> You have no idea of the comments I have received since buying the
>> recliner chair. Arrgh ... perhaps now you have. <grin>
>
><coffee on screen> does it have a massage function? :D
G'day G'day Nicky,
Nah. Sadly no.
I have set it up with a bedside lamp with a yellow lamp so it doesn't
attract mosquitoes when I read. For some reason when I am in pain I
have incredible clarity of thought for things like advanced physical
chemistry theory.
I also do things like visualizing the alphanumeric keypad on a cell
phone. Last night I woke up dreaming sending text messages. It sure
helps increase one's sending speed when you do it in the daytime.
>Nicky.
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>> BTW. Thanks for spelling "sheer" for me.
>
>ROFL
>
>Susan
G'day G'day Susan,
When I am deep in thought I often substitute one word for another ie
make word errors.
Cher, Shere, shear, share ... sheer.
Nicky
> I have set it up with a bedside lamp with a yellow lamp so it doesn't
> attract mosquitoes when I read.
There's a good tip : )
> For some reason when I am in pain I
> have incredible clarity of thought for things like advanced physical
> chemistry theory.
>
> I also do things like visualizing the alphanumeric keypad on a cell
> phone. Last night I woke up dreaming sending text messages. It sure
> helps increase one's sending speed when you do it in the daytime.
ROFL! I've heard athletes do that to improve performance. Maybe you should
try directed dreaming, and try apple crumble : )
Seriously, though, that's the bit I couldn't hack with your philosophic take
on your illnesses. I'd want to know what things might work - however
unlikely - to make things better, and imagine them happening in my body. To
me, the better the model, the more chance of success, so I'd want to know
everything. I talk to my beta cells about the birds and bees every night : )
Susan
Ricavito wrote:
> Susan, is fish oil actually an anticoagualent by itself or does it just
> intensify the effects of asprin or other blood thinners?
Fish oil is antithrombotic on its own.
When my
> husband had sinus surgery, he was told to stop all blood thinning meds
> a week beforehand. After the procedure, the surgeon told me she was
> unable to do the extensive surgery she intended because he ws bleeding
> so freely. He had been told to stop taking fish oil supplements, but
> was still eating a flaxseed oil enriched porridge for breakfast, and
> she figured that was what did it.
>
> I'm still surprised that it could have had such a dramatic effect.
>
I was told to stop taking fish oil, vitamin E, and garlic prior to surgery.
Susan
Quentin Grady
<ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:qf9142d8q9lnp070p...@4ax.com...
>> I have set it up with a bedside lamp with a yellow lamp so it doesn't
>> attract mosquitoes when I read.
>
>There's a good tip : )
>
>> For some reason when I am in pain I
>> have incredible clarity of thought for things like advanced physical
>> chemistry theory.
>>
>> I also do things like visualizing the alphanumeric keypad on a cell
>> phone. Last night I woke up dreaming sending text messages. It sure
>> helps increase one's sending speed when you do it in the daytime.
>
>ROFL! I've heard athletes do that to improve performance. Maybe you should
>try directed dreaming, and try apple crumble : )
G'day G'day Nicky,
I strongly suspect I don't want to make apple crumble.
To me it is an invite to the whole T2 diabetic scenario.
>Seriously, though, that's the bit I couldn't hack with your philosophic take
>on your illnesses.
Philosophic? That word has taken a bit of a battering recently. I'm
beginning to wonder what it means. Do you mean something like
fatalistic?
It may surprise most everyone that I don't think about the terminal
illness at all in any significant way. It is as though I have heard
about it but I'm too busy to give it any attention. Sure I roll up
for the two monthly blood tests etc. That is part of the deal. What
does get my attention is the essentially unrelated fractured
vertebrae. It has a most distinctive calling card and hollers for
attention. Even that gets put aside when more important things are
happening in my life.
>I'd want to know what things might work - however
>unlikely - to make things better, and imagine them happening in my body. To
>me, the better the model, the more chance of success, so I'd want to know
>everything. I talk to my beta cells about the birds and bees every night : )
You are right of course. I haven't given that any thought at all. My
philosophic stance is very simple. What you feed with attention grows.
Call it the troll theory of life if you like. If I put the worst
interpretation on your philosophy it would be this. Your philosophy
strikes me as similar to arguing with trolls. My only scientific cite
for this belief is the recent research on prayer for people undergoing
surgery which appeared to me to strongly support the notion that what
you give attention to tends to happen more than if you don't.
What I don't want to get into is one of those situations where any
progression of the disease is seen as some form of failure on my part.
I will and choose to believe that I am successful. Period.
It isn't some conditional stance. Some people talk about unconditional
love and then beat up on themselves. The irony isn't lost on me.
That said, I need in the interests of fairness, to relate that someone
did remote pranic healing on two occasions for me for my fractured
vertebrae. The pain disappeared in the place where I asked for
attention. When the attention was shifted elsewhere the pain
disappeared there also. That did a few interesting things for my
rational scientific way of thinking. I didn't like the thought that
pranic healing could actually work. I did enjoy the freedom from pain
immensely.
When I attempted to discuss this with some of my more scientific
friends they asked which point of view was more real. This led on to
a discussion of what her humans ever experience objective reality.
They thought they did. I disagreed at least to the point that I
believe much of what we believe is a subjective take on it.
>Nicky.
Best wishes,
Nicky
> Philosophic? That word has taken a bit of a battering recently. I'm
> beginning to wonder what it means. Do you mean something like
> fatalistic?
No, your take doesn't strike me as fatalistic. Maybe childlike, or
simplistic? - in the best, pure sense of both those words, I'm not casting
any doubt on your ability to be complex, or on your intellectual powers! It
reminds me of a physics dean friend of mine, whose relationship with God has
much the same flavour. It's almost looking through complexity and seeing the
purity of structure underneath. Again, I don't think you need to have any
sense of the religious to benefit!
>
> It may surprise most everyone that I don't think about the terminal
> illness at all in any significant way. It is as though I have heard
> about it but I'm too busy to give it any attention. Sure I roll up
> for the two monthly blood tests etc. That is part of the deal. What
> does get my attention is the essentially unrelated fractured
> vertebrae.
Well, yeah - that's kind of immediate. In time management terms, it's both
important and urgent : ) The cancer is "only" important.
>>I'd want to know what things might work - however
>>unlikely - to make things better, and imagine them happening in my body.
>>To
>>me, the better the model, the more chance of success, so I'd want to know
>>everything. I talk to my beta cells about the birds and bees every night
>>: )
>
> You are right of course. I haven't given that any thought at all. My
> philosophic stance is very simple. What you feed with attention grows.
> Call it the troll theory of life if you like. If I put the worst
> interpretation on your philosophy it would be this. Your philosophy
> strikes me as similar to arguing with trolls.
Your body, your science experiment : )
> My only scientific cite
> for this belief is the recent research on prayer for people undergoing
> surgery which appeared to me to strongly support the notion that what
> you give attention to tends to happen more than if you don't.
I read that as either an exercise in how to put people under pressure
because it was effectively a test of deo gratia, or how to separate the
believers from those who pay lip service. A badly designed experiment,
either way.
> What I don't want to get into is one of those situations where any
> progression of the disease is seen as some form of failure on my part.
> I will and choose to believe that I am successful.
From here, you're stunningly so.
> When I attempted to discuss this with some of my more scientific
> friends they asked which point of view was more real. This led on to
> a discussion of whether humans ever experience objective reality.
> They thought they did. I disagreed at least to the point that I
> believe much of what we believe is a subjective take on it.
I think that each of us has a unique chemical stew we view the world
through - objectivity requires an agreed starting point : )
Jefferson
> G'day G'day Nicky,
> Philosophic? That word has taken a bit of a battering recently. I'm
> beginning to wonder what it means. Do you mean something like
> fatalistic?
Seems as though the word has departed from it's roots. Literally
something like love of wisdom.
>
> You are right of course. I haven't given that any thought at all. My
> philosophic stance is very simple. What you feed with attention grows.
> Call it the troll theory of life if you like. If I put the worst
> interpretation on your philosophy it would be this. Your philosophy
> strikes me as similar to arguing with trolls. My only scientific cite
> for this belief is the recent research on prayer for people undergoing
> surgery which appeared to me to strongly support the notion that what
> you give attention to tends to happen more than if you don't.
This is why my favorite expression in the last five years or so has
become BS and I don't mean blood sugar. What is scientific?
>
> When I attempted to discuss this with some of my more scientific
> friends they asked which point of view was more real. This led on to
> a discussion of what her humans ever experience objective reality.
> They thought they did. I disagreed at least to the point that I
> believe much of what we believe is a subjective take on it.
I have tried to have an integrated worldview, but it somehow escapes me.
You are still a pretty tough cookie. ;)
Frank
Quentin Grady
<ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:sac2425ikgo1prnjq...@4ax.com...
>> Philosophic? That word has taken a bit of a battering recently. I'm
>> beginning to wonder what it means. Do you mean something like
>> fatalistic?
>
>No, your take doesn't strike me as fatalistic. Maybe childlike, or
>simplistic? - in the best, pure sense of both those words, I'm not casting
>any doubt on your ability to be complex, or on your intellectual powers! It
>reminds me of a physics dean friend of mine, whose relationship with God has
>much the same flavour. It's almost looking through complexity and seeing the
>purity of structure underneath. Again, I don't think you need to have any
>sense of the religious to benefit!
G'day G'day Nicky,
I like both descriptions.
Childlike generativity with a firm grip on Occam's razor.
>> It may surprise most everyone that I don't think about the terminal
>> illness at all in any significant way. It is as though I have heard
>> about it but I'm too busy to give it any attention. Sure I roll up
>> for the two monthly blood tests etc. That is part of the deal. What
>> does get my attention is the essentially unrelated fractured
>> vertebrae.
>
>Well, yeah - that's kind of immediate. In time management terms, it's both
>important and urgent : ) The cancer is "only" important.
ROTFL. You got me with that one. Day after day, I teach students to
focus on what is important but not urgent. Your comments are like
those of students who trot out something I have said that basically
says "Apply to self" They grin. I laugh. It is how we progress.
>>>I'd want to know what things might work - however
>>>unlikely - to make things better, and imagine them happening in my body.
>>>To
>>>me, the better the model, the more chance of success, so I'd want to know
>>>everything. I talk to my beta cells about the birds and bees every night
>>>: )
>>
>> You are right of course. I haven't given that any thought at all. My
>> philosophic stance is very simple. What you feed with attention grows.
>> Call it the troll theory of life if you like. If I put the worst
>> interpretation on your philosophy it would be this. Your philosophy
>> strikes me as similar to arguing with trolls.
>
>Your body, your science experiment : )
Right on. I choose to surround myself with positive thinking people.
They like being right when they see my success. I enjoy the absence of
stress. It may be corny but it works.
>> My only scientific cite
>> for this belief is the recent research on prayer for people undergoing
>> surgery which appeared to me to strongly support the notion that what
>> you give attention to tends to happen more than if you don't.
>
>I read that as either an exercise in how to put people under pressure
>because it was effectively a test of deo gratia, or how to separate the
>believers from those who pay lip service. A badly designed experiment,
>either way.
It was not a failure. One could say it was a great success. It simply
gave unexpected feedback. Glad I didn't pay the millions to get the
result. And I'm also glad I didn't have a vested interest in getting
a particular outcome. It allows me to enjoy that childlike fascination
previously alluded to.
>> What I don't want to get into is one of those situations where any
>> progression of the disease is seen as some form of failure on my part.
>> I will and choose to believe that I am successful.
>
>From here, you're stunningly so.
Thanks. More importantly it shapes my thinking. When I special needs
students come to me, I will and choose to believe they are already a
success. Two successful people sharing a bit of time together putting
together plans and acting on them to achieve a particular result.
>> When I attempted to discuss this with some of my more scientific
>> friends they asked which point of view was more real. This led on to
>> a discussion of whether humans ever experience objective reality.
>> They thought they did. I disagreed at least to the point that I
>> believe much of what we believe is a subjective take on it.
>
>I think that each of us has a unique chemical stew we view the world
>through - objectivity requires an agreed starting point : )
To me their insistence that they are ones who have a grip on objective
reality is a hindrance to them learning. In bridge playing circles
there is a joke concerning declaration of bidding systems. A couple
when asked what system they played replied, "Ehaa" When asked to
elucidate they replied, "Every Hand An Adventure."
IMHO people who don't wake up with that attitude each day are the
walking dead waiting for it to manifest physically.
>Nicky.
Quentin Grady
<croo...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Quentin Grady wrote:
>
>
>> G'day G'day Nicky,
>
>> Philosophic? That word has taken a bit of a battering recently. I'm
>> beginning to wonder what it means. Do you mean something like
>> fatalistic?
>
>Seems as though the word has departed from it's roots. Literally
>something like love of wisdom.
G'day G'day Frank,
Thanks. I feel grounded again.
>> You are right of course. I haven't given that any thought at all. My
>> philosophic stance is very simple. What you feed with attention grows.
>> Call it the troll theory of life if you like. If I put the worst
>> interpretation on your philosophy it would be this. Your philosophy
>> strikes me as similar to arguing with trolls. My only scientific cite
>> for this belief is the recent research on prayer for people undergoing
>> surgery which appeared to me to strongly support the notion that what
>> you give attention to tends to happen more than if you don't.
>
>This is why my favorite expression in the last five years or so has
>become BS and I don't mean blood sugar.
OK. I'm in catch up mode here.
>What is scientific?
IMHO it is a way of exploration.
>> When I attempted to discuss this with some of my more scientific
>> friends they asked which point of view was more real. This led on to
>> a discussion of what her humans ever experience objective reality.
>> They thought they did. I disagreed at least to the point that I
>> believe much of what we believe is a subjective take on it.
>
>I have tried to have an integrated worldview, but it somehow escapes me.
>
>You are still a pretty tough cookie. ;)
Thanks. I have learnt much from students others refer to as hoons.
Their attitude to life is so what if you crash ... make sure you don't
burn. Take risks but survive. A paradigm I frequently use is that we
evolve most rapidly in our understanding if we position ourselves two
steps back from chaos. We need courage to stare chaos in the face
from time to time and the toughness or resilience to hold onto what we
gain from such experiments.
At the moment I am fascinated by text messaging. Today I added
punctuation, capitalization, saved messages and sending saved messages
that included telephone numbers and email addresses. OK, that doesn't
sound like scary stuff ... not the sort of stuff that would make a
tough cookie crumble, <grin> never the less too often technology
advances so rapidly we never learn how to use it before it is replaced
by the next wave. My goal is to develop a form of accelerated
learning to overcome the problem of advancing technology leaving
humans in catch up mode. Besides I need to have a couple more books
in the pipeline for when I finish the blokes on nutrition one.
>Frank
Quentin Grady
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Quentin Grady wrote:
>> This post not CC'd by email
>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:21:03 -0400, Susan <neve...@nomail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>BTW. Thanks for spelling "sheer" for me.
>>>
>>>ROFL
>>>
>>>Susan
>>
>>
>> G'day G'day Susan,
>>
>> When I am deep in thought I often substitute one word for another ie
>> make word errors.
>>
>> Cher, Shere, shear, share ... sheer.
>>
>
>Quentin, when I am deep in conversation, I often substitute words that
>neither sound like what I mean, nor mean anything close to it.
>
>Bugs ate my brain. :-)
>
>Susan
G'day G'day Susan,
I type whole words and phrases in a similar manner to thinking in
whole sentences.
Nicky
> At the moment I am fascinated by text messaging. Today I added
> punctuation, capitalization, saved messages and sending saved messages
> that included telephone numbers and email addresses. OK, that doesn't
> sound like scary stuff ... not the sort of stuff that would make a
> tough cookie crumble, <grin> never the less too often technology
> advances so rapidly we never learn how to use it before it is replaced
> by the next wave. My goal is to develop a form of accelerated
> learning to overcome the problem of advancing technology leaving
> humans in catch up mode. Besides I need to have a couple more books
> in the pipeline for when I finish the blokes on nutrition one.
I'll buy that one too - punctuation on a phone is completely beyond me, and
it's really, really irritating not to be able to use it! My 11yo can do it
fine on my phone, so it's me, not my tech :{}
Quentin Grady
G'day G'day Nicky,
You will most likely understand my fascination with text messaging.
I hold to the belief that with most things if someone can do it then
so can others, especially when it comes to mastering technology. Other
things like playing a musical instrument for example might well
require an awareness of pitch that not everyone has.
The paradox for me was that I work as a support tutor and students
come seeking help in learning yet most of the people who work in the
support centre cannot text message as well as the students who come
seeking help. To bridge the gap to their world I needed to develop an
insight into how they already learnt things rapidly.
Remember my dictum that I regard our sessions as a meeting of two
successful people who share skills.
Nicky
> The paradox for me was that I work as a support tutor and students
> come seeking help in learning yet most of the people who work in the
> support centre cannot text message as well as the students who come
> seeking help. To bridge the gap to their world I needed to develop an
> insight into how they already learnt things rapidly.
To get into the tertiary sector with those disabilities, they must be
bright. (My 11yo is one of those - she's dyslexic, but I can't get her any
help because she's functioning "at her age group". The system ignores her
98th percentile IQ.) I'd be less interested in the speed they learn, and
more in how much of what they do is applicable to other people. Are the
coping strategies that they've worked out likely to be of use to anyone
else? Are they even going to be able to explain it to anyone else, given how
internalised they must have become? Maybe you ought to also look at people
at the other end of the spectrum, and see how a functioning, subnormal
person copes?
Is an interesting concept : )
Quentin Grady
<ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:vb0642hfemdfl2k4i...@4ax.com...
>> The paradox for me was that I work as a support tutor and students
>> come seeking help in learning yet most of the people who work in the
>> support centre cannot text message as well as the students who come
>> seeking help. To bridge the gap to their world I needed to develop an
>> insight into how they already learnt things rapidly.
>
>To get into the tertiary sector with those disabilities, they must be
>bright.
G'day G'day Nicky,
Indeed they are.
It is as though they are bright and dim simultaneously.
>(My 11yo is one of those - she's dyslexic, but I can't get her any
>help because she's functioning "at her age group". The system ignores her
>98th percentile IQ.) I'd be less interested in the speed they learn, and
>more in how much of what they do is applicable to other people.
That's important. IMHO we have much to learn from them.
> Are the
>coping strategies that they've worked out likely to be of use to anyone
>else?
Absolutely. They are often highly streamlined. I use the same skills
with other students regularly. It has lead me to be more precise on
matters of layout. With people who don't conceptualize for instance,
pattern and layout are everything. Surprisingly, when I use what I
have learnt from them to other students they "understand" more rapidly
and learn with greater enjoyment.
>Are they even going to be able to explain it to anyone else, given how
>internalised they must have become?
I'm lucky to have a one to one situation. They teach me by letting me
observe what they do, so I've never experienced what it would be like
to explain. I seldom ask students to explain. It often makes them
tense.
>Maybe you ought to also look at people
>at the other end of the spectrum, and see how a functioning, subnormal
>person copes?
You mean, follow my prime directive? <grin>
Look for people for whom the issue is no problem at all. I teach THAT
to students daily and so am obliged to live the life ie walk the talk.
If I don't they remind me, grinning from ear to ear.
>Is an interesting concept : )
>
>Nicky.
Best wishes,
Nicky
> Absolutely. They are often highly streamlined. I use the same skills
> with other students regularly. It has lead me to be more precise on
> matters of layout. With people who don't conceptualize for instance,
> pattern and layout are everything. Surprisingly, when I use what I
> have learnt from them to other students they "understand" more rapidly
> and learn with greater enjoyment.
Oh, interesting! Did you happen to catch Jakob Neilsen's Alertbox column
today on maximising web page layouts? Is that along the lines you're now
using, or do you mean a differently structured layout?
What about time management - are they better or worse at that? (My kid is
dire at this. She's astonishingly last-minute. I'm still trying to decide if
that's being 11, or being dyslexic.)
>>Are they even going to be able to explain it to anyone else, given how
>>internalised they must have become?
>
> I'm lucky to have a one to one situation. They teach me by letting me
> observe what they do, so I've never experienced what it would be like
> to explain. I seldom ask students to explain. It often makes them
> tense.
Right. Another book, please - "Observations on Successful Strategies" : )
Quentin Grady
<ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:vla842l99ahgtho8i...@4ax.com...
>> Absolutely. They are often highly streamlined. I use the same skills
>> with other students regularly. It has lead me to be more precise on
>> matters of layout. With people who don't conceptualize for instance,
>> pattern and layout are everything. Surprisingly, when I use what I
>> have learnt from them to other students they "understand" more rapidly
>> and learn with greater enjoyment.
>
>Oh, interesting! Did you happen to catch Jakob Neilsen's Alertbox column
>today on maximising web page layouts? Is that along the lines you're now
>using, or do you mean a differently structured layout?
G'day G'dy Nicky,
I don't recognise the name or the column. What I do notice daily is
that I achieve success by getting the Asperger's syndrome blokes to
lay out their working on the white board systematically. Conventional
classes scramble their brains because the teachers hops about all over
the place. For these student related calculations must be next to one
another, arranged like a plan.
>What about time management - are they better or worse at that? (My kid is
>dire at this. She's astonishingly last-minute. I'm still trying to decide if
>that's being 11, or being dyslexic.)
I have one student for whom time management is my entire brief. He
got 78% in his last assignment. Before that he got nothing because his
work wasn't handed in. I create mind maps and then a time line with
certain rules eg 70% is to be accomplished by the half way time so the
pressure decreases. He must also finish a week early on long projects
to allow for the possibility of him getting the flu etc. When he had
two assignments collide, thanks to some inter-tutor mismanagement, I
had do a rough draft of one assignment AS THERAPY so he could
concentrate on the other. He had used writing as therapy when his
grandmother died because he found it too hard to talk about. He
understood perfectly in his world and it worked.
>>>Are they even going to be able to explain it to anyone else, given how
>>>internalised they must have become?
>>
>> I'm lucky to have a one to one situation. They teach me by letting me
>> observe what they do, so I've never experienced what it would be like
>> to explain. I seldom ask students to explain. It often makes them
>> tense.
>
>Right. Another book, please - "Observations on Successful Strategies" : )
I am even more determined to do just that now a second type of cancer
has been discovered.
Nicky
> This post not CC'd by email
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:10:52 +0100, "Nicky"
> <ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> What I do notice daily is
> that I achieve success by getting the Asperger's syndrome blokes to
> lay out their working on the white board systematically. Conventional
> classes scramble their brains because the teachers hops about all over
> the place. For these student related calculations must be next to one
> another, arranged like a plan.
Right. Boy, I bet they find their time with you relaxing! I bet none of
their other tutors have even thought about it.
>
>>What about time management - are they better or worse at that? (My kid is
>>dire at this. She's astonishingly last-minute. I'm still trying to decide
>>if
>>that's being 11, or being dyslexic.)
>
> I have one student for whom time management is my entire brief.
Hmmm. OK, I'll try not to strangle her yet : )
>>Right. Another book, please - "Observations on Successful Strategies" : )
>
> I am even more determined to do just that now a second type of cancer
> has been discovered.
Oh? I missed this. What's happened now?
Quentin Grady
<ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:hp2d42de9tnb8sgc8...@4ax.com...
>> This post not CC'd by email
>> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:10:52 +0100, "Nicky"
>> <ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>> What I do notice daily is
>> that I achieve success by getting the Asperger's syndrome blokes to
>> lay out their working on the white board systematically. Conventional
>> classes scramble their brains because the teachers hops about all over
>> the place. For these student related calculations must be next to one
>> another, arranged like a plan.
>
>Right. Boy, I bet they find their time with you relaxing! I bet none of
>their other tutors have even thought about it.
G'day G'day Nicky,
Good point Nicky. Many tutors look a for a space on the board and
write on it so they don't have to rub out notes students might still
be copying. Yesterday I had a student who could perhaps be described
as math phobic. She solved math problems by running away. All her
life she had been successful in outrunning them. Now as an adult
student on a business course she could do so no longer. She even had
a pretty 4-function calculator on a ribbon. Sad. It had not brackets
and wasn't fully algebraic. For once in her life beauty would nice
the mustard. What I found with her was that she needed structure and
layout. She liked origami where layout, alignment etc was necessary
and it carried over to her learning.
>>>What about time management - are they better or worse at that? (My kid is
>>>dire at this. She's astonishingly last-minute. I'm still trying to decide
>>>if
>>>that's being 11, or being dyslexic.)
>> I have one student for whom time management is my entire brief.
>
>Hmmm. OK, I'll try not to strangle her yet : )
It is something that varies from student to student.
The good news is that it is a teachable skill.
Email me I may be able to help. What I find weird is other tutors are
adopting the learnings from my exercises for students to make their
own lives more successful.
>>>Right. Another book, please - "Observations on Successful Strategies" : )
>>
>> I am even more determined to do just that now a second type of cancer
>> has been discovered.
>
>Oh? I missed this. What's happened now?
No big deal. I am still learning to accept the reality myself. It's
my GP who is in denial. He says no one could be so unlucky as to get
two rare cancers. They are both unrelated to life style, simply bad
lotto tickets whose numbers came up. I think I'll let them fight it
out with one another. I've had enough funerals, it is time for me to
really start living.