Need beta blocker but concerned it may cause diabetes
Richard
has gotten me on beta blockers.
My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
to come back down.
After several ER trips (maybe it was anxiety related?) my cardiologist
put me on a few different meds, and finally wound up leaving me just
on the beta blocker alone.
Still to this day I take 50mg of Toprol XL (extended release). I
haven't seen a high reading over 130/85 on this. I'm usually in low-
norm range.
Also the beta blocker helps with an arrhythmia that I have called
PSVT.
Maybe I need to be on a beta blocker, but I am very concerned about T2
diabetes because my father had it.
I brought this topic up with my cardiologist and he told me not to
worry about it. But I have read stuff like this:
http://www.library.nhs.uk/rss/newsAndRssArticle.aspx?uri=http://www.library.nhs.uk/resources/?id=177391
That seems to show concrete evidence that beta blocker may cause or
worsen diabetes in some people.
I'm going to go on a sugar restricted diet anyway. I check my blood
sugar once a month (I have a reader) and my GP also checks my A1C
test, which is so far normal.
Finally I’m wondering if it might be normal for blood pressure to sky
rocket after eating a large meal, after a stressful day (with
anxiety). Perhaps I don’t need any medication?
Honestly the beta blocker has not helped with the PSVT issue, but I
only have a few of those each year - doesn't bother me much.
What would you do? Continue taking the beta blocker, eat sensibly and
get regular blood tests? Or would you talk to your cardiologist to see
if you can get off the beta blocker?
Thanks
Richard
anon
> I had a strange ordeal with my blood pressure a couple years ago that
> has gotten me on beta blockers.
>
> My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
> after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
> to come back down.
>
> After several ER trips (maybe it was anxiety related?) my cardiologist
> put me on a few different meds, and finally wound up leaving me just
> on the beta blocker alone.
>
> Still to this day I take 50mg of Toprol XL (extended release). I
> haven't seen a high reading over 130/85 on this. I'm usually in low-
> norm range.
>
> Also the beta blocker helps with an arrhythmia that I have called
> PSVT.
>
> Maybe I need to be on a beta blocker, but I am very concerned about T2
> diabetes because my father had it.
>
> I brought this topic up with my cardiologist and he told me not to
> worry about it. But I have read stuff like this:
> http://www.library.nhs.uk/rss/newsAndRssArticle.aspx?uri=http://www.library.nhs.uk/resources/?id=177391
>
Maybe you should read stuff like:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/card/2002/00000016/00000005/05114394
If you have a doctor you trust, take his/her advice. If you don'trust
your doctor, get another doctor.
> That seems to show concrete evidence that beta blocker may cause or
> worsen diabetes in some people.
>
> I'm going to go on a sugar restricted diet anyway. I check my blood
> sugar once a month (I have a reader) and my GP also checks my A1C
> test, which is so far normal.
>
> Finally I�m wondering if it might be normal for blood pressure to sky
> rocket after eating a large meal, after a stressful day (with
> anxiety). Perhaps I don�t need any medication?
Bob
My mother had something like you have. I believe it was atrial
tachycardia and not the PSVT. Pulse all of a sudden 200+ two or three
times a year. She never passed out, but go to the hospital and they
would give her Verapamil by IV. Usually it was just a couple hours in
the ER. Finally started her on the pill form of Verapamil and a guess
over the years it cut the incidents by 90%.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Losing the VAT should keep you from ever having type-2 diabetes:
>
>Thanks
>Richard
Laus Deo for your thanks:
Love in the truth,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Trust the Truth:"
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Charly Coughran
news:380a7e53-5f7b-41b7...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
The paper that came out of this work is available at
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/31/5/982.full.pdf+html
It shows a ~40% increased risk for new onset diabetes in hypertensives
treated with a beta blocker (plus a thiazide diuretic, if required) over
a calcium channel blocker (plus an ACE inhibitor, if required). Note
that both beta blockers and diuretics are known to increase insulin
resistance. So, even though it is a nice study with a large number of
participants, it is not exactly on point for your situation.
Standard practice with diabetics is to start antihypertensive treatment
with an ACE inhibitor and to avoid beta blockers. But that isn't exactly
on point either.
It is common to start antihypertensive treatment in the general
population with diuretics or beta blockers.
In addition to beta blockers, calcium channel blockers and a variety of
other medications are used for arrhythmias, each with its own set of
potential problems.
The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on
the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a
frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the
alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the
current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find
someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign,
but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you
part of the treatment team.
--
-------
Charly Coughran
ccou...@DELETE-TO-RESPOND-UCSD.EDU
Julie Bove
"Richard" <sooper...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:380a7e53-5f7b-41b7...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
----------
Yes, a Beta Blocker can cause diabetes. Do you need one? I don't know.
Have you asked about taking an ACE or an ARB?
As for your diet, restricting sugar is kind of meaningless. It is carbs we
must watch. Yes, sugar is a carb but no worse in terms of blood sugar than
juice, fruit, potatoes, pasta, bread, etc.
Wendell T. Stamps
Zed
> I had a strange ordeal with my blood pressure a couple years ago that
> has gotten me on beta blockers.
>
> My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
> after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
> to come back down.
>
> After several ER trips (maybe it was anxiety related?) my cardiologist
> put me on a few different meds, and finally wound up leaving me just
> on the beta blocker alone.
>
> Still to this day I take 50mg of Toprol XL (extended release). I
> haven't seen a high reading over 130/85 on this. I'm usually in low-
> norm range.
>
> Also the beta blocker helps with an arrhythmia that I have called
> PSVT.
>
> Maybe I need to be on a beta blocker, but I am very concerned about T2
> diabetes because my father had it.
>
> I brought this topic up with my cardiologist and he told me not to
>
> That seems to show concrete evidence that beta blocker may cause or
> worsen diabetes in some people.
>
> I'm going to go on a sugar restricted diet anyway. I check my blood
> sugar once a month (I have a reader) and my GP also checks my A1C
> test, which is so far normal.
>
> Finally I’m wondering if it might be normal for blood pressure to sky
> rocket after eating a large meal, after a stressful day (with
> anxiety). Perhaps I don’t need any medication?
>
> Honestly the beta blocker has not helped with the PSVT issue, but I
> only have a few of those each year - doesn't bother me much.
>
> What would you do? Continue taking the beta blocker, eat sensibly and
> get regular blood tests? Or would you talk to your cardiologist to see
> if you can get off the beta blocker?
>
> Thanks
> Richard
If you're overweight, stuffing yourself at meals and eating junk -
you're on the road to self-destruction no matter what meds you take or
don't take. Trust me, I've been on that very same road myself.
Julie Bove
"Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23X...@giganews.com...
> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet.
Not necessarily.
Wendell T. Stamps
"Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hcqpiu$48r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
For *most* people.
Julie Bove
Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I
know in real life are.
dizzie....@gmail.com
wrote:
>T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet.
Yes, it is, for *some* people.
--
BettyB. -- www.flamingo-code.com
There is always the potential to change one's direction and go another way
chorl...@gmail.com
> I had a strange ordeal with my blood pressure a couple years ago that
> has gotten me on beta blockers.
>
> My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
> after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
> to come back down.
>
> After several ER trips (maybe it was anxiety related?) my cardiologist
> put me on a few different meds, and finally wound up leaving me just
> on the beta blocker alone.
>
> Still to this day I take 50mg of Toprol XL (extended release). I
> haven't seen a high reading over 130/85 on this. I'm usually in low-
> norm range.
>
> Also the beta blocker helps with an arrhythmia that I have called
> PSVT.
>
> Maybe I need to be on a beta blocker, but I am very concerned about T2
> diabetes because my father had it.
>
> I brought this topic up with my cardiologist and he told me not to
>
> That seems to show concrete evidence that beta blocker may cause or
> worsen diabetes in some people.
>
> I'm going to go on a sugar restricted diet anyway. I check my blood
> sugar once a month (I have a reader) and my GP also checks my A1C
> test, which is so far normal.
>
> Finally I’m wondering if it might be normal for blood pressure to sky
> rocket after eating a large meal, after a stressful day (with
> anxiety). Perhaps I don’t need any medication?
>
> Honestly the beta blocker has not helped with the PSVT issue, but I
> only have a few of those each year - doesn't bother me much.
>
> What would you do? Continue taking the beta blocker, eat sensibly and
> get regular blood tests? Or would you talk to your cardiologist to see
> if you can get off the beta blocker?
>
> Thanks
> Richard
I would recommend Bystolic, a newer beta-blocker which seems to have a
better glycemic profile. The trend seems to be going towards
prescribing lower doses of multiple anti-hypertensives rather than
maxing out on one. For the price of the pill, the ace-inhibitor
lisinopril has to be one of the biggest bargains in medicine.
David
BDR529
Sorry to intervene here, but this tread is becoming a collection of
meaningless and inaccurate one-liners.
Type-2 diabetes is a serious condition that should not be ignored.
The level at which a patient is affected by type 2 depends on a number
of performance indicators to be looked at by a health care professional.
Some patients with type-2 diabetes can be treated with just pills.
Other type two's do need insulin as I learned from the discussions here.
And some type two's can keep their diabetes under control with a diet.
Your mileage may vary.
But, usually the situation is, once you are diagnosed with type 2 it is
something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever
self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people
with type 2.
You will need to be tested once every year and sometimes more often, and
a professional should be telling you this.
Q, T2 1000 mg/day metformin since July 2009.
MU
Not necessarily. Just because they are on meds does not mean they have
failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have
failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie
counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as
usual.
MU
Should Type 2 diabetics not maintain healthy weight? That's what the 2PD
OMER is about.
> You will need to be tested once every year and sometimes more often, and
> a professional should be telling you this.
Like a cardiologist? In Atlanta, would that be considered a
"professional"
> Q, T2 1000 mg/day metformin since July 2009.
How much do you weigh?
MU
> If you're overweight, stuffing yourself at meals and eating junk -
> you're on the road to self-destruction no matter what meds you take or
> don't take. Trust me, I've been on that very same road myself.
Being overweight eating zucchini is still overweight and obesity is
clearly the greater issue than what is consumed.
MU
> I had a strange ordeal with my blood pressure a couple years ago that
> has gotten me on beta blockers.
>
> My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
> after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
> to come back down.
Didn't you answer your own question? Did your cardiologist state "Don't
eat large meals"?
Isn't the real issue your overconsumption?
Richard
34 years old, 5' 11", 148 lb, in shape (I run) and my "large" meals
are actually small in comparison to what most people would consider
large. Large to me is eating a full sandwich with a serving of beans.
Or clearing my plate with two chicken legs and a serving of green
beans. Normally I eat like a mouse. Why my blood pressure shot up to
200/105 seemed to have something to do with an endocrine problem. I
have a thyroid condition that is being treated as well. My
endocrinologist communicated this to my cariologist and because this
endocrine thing had something to do with adrenaline, he decided the
best thing for me was a beta blocker. I just wish they could fix the
root problem instead of giving me beta blockers. Again, my dad had
type 2.. he stubbed his toe and didn't have a tetanus shot. But
otherwise he was managing it well.. I would just hate to have the beta
blockers push me into getting T2 at a younger age and I would rather
not have T2 at all.
MU
> On Nov 4, 7:05�am, MU <efacsimi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:25:01 -0800 (PST), Richard wrote:
>>> I had a strange ordeal with my blood pressure a couple years ago that
>>> has gotten me on beta blockers.
>>
>>> My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
>>> after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
>>> to come back down.
>>
>> Didn't you answer your own question? Did your cardiologist state "Don't
>> eat large meals"?
>>
>> Isn't the real issue your overconsumption?
>
> 34 years old, 5' 11", 148 lb, in shape (I run) and my "large" meals
> are actually small in comparison to what most people would consider
> large. Large to me is eating a full sandwich with a serving of beans.
That is large to me as well. Rarely do that.
> Or clearing my plate with two chicken legs and a serving of green
> beans.
I rarely clear my plate...on purpose.
> Normally I eat like a mouse.
Which is my point. Your body is telling you the obvious, continue to eat
"small" portions and don't overconsume. Suggestion, 2lbs per day spread
over several small portions.
> Why my blood pressure shot up to
> 200/105 seemed to have something to do with an endocrine problem. I
> have a thyroid condition that is being treated as well. My
> endocrinologist communicated this to my cariologist and because this
> endocrine thing had something to do with adrenaline, he decided the
> best thing for me was a beta blocker. I just wish they could fix the
> root problem instead of giving me beta blockers.
Richard, if you didn't overconsume, you wouldn't have a High BP issue.
Why do you need beta blockers to keep your BP in check?
> Again, my dad had
> type 2.. he stubbed his toe and didn't have a tetanus shot. But
> otherwise he was managing it well.. I would just hate to have the beta
> blockers push me into getting T2 at a younger age and I would rather
> not have T2 at all.
Your definition of overconsumption has been reached by trial and error.
Go and err no more.
MoSn
(in article <hcs1fm$emo$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> Should Type 2 diabetics not maintain healthy weight? That's what the 2PD
> OMER is about.
So two pounds of chocolate a day for a diabetic is good?
MoSn
(in article <hcs1io$fe5$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
Yes. Eat fewer calories than you need for your current weight and activity
and you will lose weight. Eat more and you will gain wait.
That is Weight Control 1.01
Michael
> I had a strange ordeal with my blood pressure a couple years ago that
> has gotten me on beta blockers.
>
> My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up to 190/105
> after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three hours for it
> to come back down.
>
> After several ER trips (maybe it was anxiety related?) my cardiologist
> put me on a few different meds, and finally wound up leaving me just
> on the beta blocker alone.
>
> Still to this day I take 50mg of Toprol XL (extended release). I
> haven't seen a high reading over 130/85 on this. I'm usually in low-
> norm range.
>
> Also the beta blocker helps with an arrhythmia that I have called
> PSVT.
>
> Maybe I need to be on a beta blocker, but I am very concerned about T2
> diabetes because my father had it.
>
> I brought this topic up with my cardiologist and he told me not to
> worry about it. But I have read stuff like this:
> http://www.library.nhs.uk/rss/newsAndRssArticle.aspx?uri=http://www.library.nhs.uk/resources/?id=177391
>
> That seems to show concrete evidence that beta blocker may cause or
> worsen diabetes in some people.
>
> I'm going to go on a sugar restricted diet anyway. I check my blood
> sugar once a month (I have a reader) and my GP also checks my A1C
> test, which is so far normal.
>
> rocket after eating a large meal, after a stressful day (with
>
> Honestly the beta blocker has not helped with the PSVT issue, but I
> only have a few of those each year - doesn't bother me much.
>
> What would you do? Continue taking the beta blocker, eat sensibly and
> get regular blood tests? Or would you talk to your cardiologist to see
> if you can get off the beta blocker?
>
> Thanks
> Richard
Richard,
I think we all react in different ways to this disease. We all have
different body chemistries and psyches.
I too take a beta blocker. It is called Coreg. I take the generic form
to lower my cost.
I need this drug to prevent angina. This drug causes elevated BG levels.
A bit of a sticky wicket. I have lowered my dose of this drug a couple
of times. I keep close watch on my BP and whether I experience angina
when trotting up flights of stairs. It is a tightrope walk.
I do not experience increased BP after eating. So it must not be all
that common to be happening.
I also have started taking metformin. It has not yet had any effect. I
must watch my carb intake very closely to keep in a safe range. I
generally eat about 10 simple carbs per day. Sometimes it is as high as
20. This is what it takes to keep me comfortably below the 140 BG mark
where cellular damage occurs.
Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe
diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it
elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more.
Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are
different for everyone.
Michael
BDR529
Yes they should, but it may not be the only thing to do.
>
>> You will need to be tested once every year and sometimes more often, and
>> a professional should be telling you this.
>
> Like a cardiologist? In Atlanta, would that be considered a
> "professional"
What about the house doctor telling you where to go. The way it works
here is that you need a letter from the house doctor anyways if you want
the insurance company to pay for your expenses at the specialist.
>> Q, T2 1000 mg/day metformin since July 2009.
>
> How much do you weigh?
BMI 26,3 presently but originally it was 32,5. My target is 25 or less.
Getting my blood glucose under control is not my only problem.
Q
--
Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!
BDR529
The answer to that question is no, as a type II you should moderate the
intake of carbohydrates over the day. And chocolate contains a lot of
fast carbs like sugar.
MU
You have a tough time answering direct questions, why is that?
MU
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Richard wrote:
>
>> 34 years old, 5' 11", 148 lb, in shape (I run) and my "large" meals
>> are actually small in comparison to what most people would consider
>> large. Large to me is eating a full sandwich with a serving of beans.
>> Or clearing my plate with two chicken legs and a serving of green
>> beans. Normally I eat like a mouse. Why my blood pressure shot up to
>> 200/105 seemed to have something to do with an endocrine problem. I
>> have a thyroid condition that is being treated as well. My
>> endocrinologist communicated this to my cariologist and because this
>> endocrine thing had something to do with adrenaline, he decided the
>> best thing for me was a beta blocker. I just wish they could fix the
>> root problem instead of giving me beta blockers. Again, my dad had
>> type 2.. he stubbed his toe and didn't have a tetanus shot. But
>> otherwise he was managing it well.. I would just hate to have the beta
>> blockers push me into getting T2 at a younger age and I would rather
>> not have T2 at all.
>
> You're absolutely correct in thinking that the underlying problem,
> whether hyperaldosteronism or other adrenal condition (hormone secreting
> adrenal nodule or tumor) should be addressed and treated, not papered
> over long term with medication.
>
> Have you had adrenal C-T imaging with contrast? Have you had serum,
> saliva and urinary testing to see what your levels of both bound and
> free hormones are circulating?
>
> Those are things I'd ask for, and I'd find an endo whose interest in
> your long term health runs deeper than writing an rx that you may need
> for the short term, without making a plan to find out WHY you're having
> the problem.
>
> Susan
We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch
of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
MU
> Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe
> diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it
> elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>
> The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more.
> Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are
> different for everyone.
Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or
foods in particular, don't overconsume.
Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet. Don't overconsume.
BDR529
This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a
tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a
tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing
with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a
different situation than the average house cat in your room.
Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG
under control.
The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production
is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety
of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac
problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one
of them.
If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and
then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the
only difference between type 1 and type 2.
Q
MU
Your mind works in some unknown Universe, I never intimated anything as
such.
> Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
>
> There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG
> under control.
NSS.
> The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production
> is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety
> of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
NSS.
> There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac
> problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one
> of them.
Any others? Fascinating stuff.
> If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and
> then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the
> only difference between type 1 and type 2.
>
> Q
<making notes>
<not really>
MU
BDR529
@MU: how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this
newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about diabetes.
MoSn
(in article <4af1c73f$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>):
> MoSn wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:01:26 -0600, MU wrote
>> (in article <hcs1fm$emo$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
>>
>>> Should Type 2 diabetics not maintain healthy weight? That's what the 2PD
>>> OMER is about.
>>
>> So two pounds of chocolate a day for a diabetic is good?
>>
>
> The answer to that question is no, as a type II you should moderate the
> intake of carbohydrates over the day. And chocolate contains a lot of
> fast carbs like sugar.
>
>
Agree the answer to two pounds of chocolate is not good.
Richard
> > are actually small in comparison to what most people would consider
> > large. Large to me is eating a full sandwich with a serving of beans.
> > Or clearing my plate with two chicken legs and a serving of green
> > beans. Normally I eat like a mouse. Why my blood pressure shot up to
> > 200/105 seemed to have something to do with an endocrine problem. I
> > have a thyroid condition that is being treated as well. My
> > endocrinologist communicated this to my cariologist and because this
> > endocrine thing had something to do with adrenaline, he decided the
> > best thing for me was a beta blocker. I just wish they could fix the
> > root problem instead of giving me beta blockers. Again, my dad had
> > type 2.. he stubbed his toe and didn't have a tetanus shot. But
> > otherwise he was managing it well.. I would just hate to have the beta
> > blockers push me into getting T2 at a younger age and I would rather
> > not have T2 at all.
>
> whether hyperaldosteronism or other adrenal condition (hormone secreting
> adrenal nodule or tumor) should be addressed and treated, not papered
> over long term with medication.
>
> Have you had adrenal C-T imaging with contrast? Have you had serum,
> saliva and urinary testing to see what your levels of both bound and
> free hormones are circulating?
>
> Those are things I'd ask for, and I'd find an endo whose interest in
> your long term health runs deeper than writing an rx that you may need
> for the short term, without making a plan to find out WHY you're having
> the problem.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
That was the first thing they looked for at the mayo clinic I had a CT
and two MRIs of my adrenals and brain/pitutary, catecholemine/adrenal
blood tests, challege tests, all normal. Except my cortisol goes high
in the morning and low in the evening - they wrote that off to
anxiety.
MoSn
>
> You have a tough time answering direct questions, why is that?
I wonder if you are having "a tough time" providing citations from the
established medical journals about the two pound diet you advocate since you
have not done that. Sometimes a non-response is louder and clearer than a
response.
MU
lol
How about answering a question directly instead of blowing off a set of
irrelevant statistics which feed your ego and make little contribution
to the discussion?
See how that works?
MU
> The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on
> the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a
> frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the
> alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the
> current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find
> someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign,
> but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you
> part of the treatment team.
It also helps if that DR. has some clue about weigh control, what
overconsumption *really* is and rejects calorie counting. If he doesn't
match up to all of these criteria, kiss his sorry ass goodbye.
MU
>>> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever
>>> self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people
>>> with type 2.
>>
>> Should Type 2 diabetics not maintain healthy weight? That's what the 2PD
>> OMER is about.
>
> Yes they should, but it may not be the only thing to do.
Where did I say it was?
MU
>>> You will need to be tested once every year and sometimes more often, and
>>> a professional should be telling you this.
>>
>> Like a cardiologist? In Atlanta, would that be considered a
>> "professional"
>
> What about the house doctor telling you where to go. The way it works
> here is that you need a letter from the house doctor anyways if you want
> the insurance company to pay for your expenses at the specialist.
What about answering my question instead of flipping the answer to show
off your typing abilities?
MU
>>> Q, T2 1000 mg/day metformin since July 2009.
>>
>> How much do you weigh?
>
> BMI 26,3 presently but originally it was 32,5. My target is 25 or less.
> Getting my blood glucose under control is not my only problem.
>
> Q
lol
BMI
lol
Tell me, does your floor scale read out in BMIs?
MU
> @MU: how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this
> newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about diabetes.
>
> Q
@BDR how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this
newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about cardiology.
BDR529
@MU: I've heard the words "overconsumption" and "calorie restriction" so
often from your beak that I doubt whether you know something else. Heart
problems and diabetes, can have various underlying reasons. Once again,
check some facts before bothering anyone in these NG's with your more
than complete inadequate and illiterate bull shit.
Thorsten Schier
[...]
>
> We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch
> of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
No, we don't. Healthy people don't have a blood pressure of 200/105 even
after a large meal. So possible overconsumption is hardly the only
problem here.
Thorsten
Thorsten Schier
[...]
>
> Yes, a Beta Blocker can cause diabetes. Do you need one? I don't know.
> Have you asked about taking an ACE or an ARB?
>
> As for your diet, restricting sugar is kind of meaningless. It is carbs we
> must watch. Yes, sugar is a carb but no worse in terms of blood sugar than
> juice, fruit, potatoes, pasta, bread, etc.
>
>
All carbs are not created equal. Fructose, which is part of table sugar,
but not (or only in small amounts) of potatoes, pasta and bread, raises
insulin resistance and is therefore worse for diabetics than other
carbs. So restricting sugar may not be enough to control diabetes, but
it is hardly meaningless if you try to prevent diabetes.
Thorsten
Thorsten Schier
Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach
and not a diet?
Don't overconsume.
No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach. The basis for
the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat
for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a
4-feet female couch potatoe.
HTH,
Thorsten
Fandango
in search.
MoSn
(in article <hcsmq9$m3l$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> lol
>
> How about answering a question directly instead of blowing off a set of
> irrelevant statistics which feed your ego and make little contribution
> to the discussion?
>
> See how that works?
How about following your own advice.
Any citations in the main medical journals to support Chung's two pound diet
which you support?
I would imagine only those gullible or stupid enough to follow that 2 pound
diet would not notice your lack of response and not realize you do not
respond because no such citations exist.
MoSn
(in article <hcsn4a$p19$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
It also helps in the DR does not follow some idea which is not published in
any medical journal. There are all sorts of foolish and stupid stuff in the
internet about weight loss, and your inability to provide any citations just
shows it.
MoSn
(in article <hcsn92$q8r$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
BMI is a valuable index used by doctors. Beware of those pushing "snale oil"
remedies.
MoSn
(in article <hcso5u$3j4$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> @BDR how about some fact finding
How about some fact finding regards the two pound diet The only thing there
is is fiction.
MoSn
(in article <hcsvik$d06$00$1...@news.t-online.com>):
> No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach. The basis for
> the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat
> for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a
> 4-feet female couch potatoe.
Yes, It is really obvious if you stop and think for a minute.
Could MU be a sock puppet of Chung's?
Wendell T. Stamps
>
> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
> news:MJqdnexIo-NRdG3X...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:hcqpiu$48r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23X...@giganews.com...
>>>> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily.
>>
>> For *most* people.
>
> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I
> know in real life are.
For Type II(*T2)??? You're thinking of Type I. Type 2 is not only
managable, but completely curable.
Wendell T. Stamps
"BDR529" <jake> wrote in message
news:4af12e0d$0$83235$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>> news:MJqdnexIo-NRdG3X...@giganews.com...
>>> "Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> news:hcqpiu$48r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23X...@giganews.com...
>>>>> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet.
>>>> Not necessarily.
>>> For *most* people.
>>
>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I
>> know in real life are.
>
> meaningless and inaccurate one-liners.
>
> Type-2 diabetes is a serious condition that should not be ignored.
>
> The level at which a patient is affected by type 2 depends on a number of
> performance indicators to be looked at by a health care professional.
>
> Some patients with type-2 diabetes can be treated with just pills.
>
> Other type two's do need insulin as I learned from the discussions here.
>
> And some type two's can keep their diabetes under control with a diet.
>
> Your mileage may vary.
>
> But, usually the situation is, once you are diagnosed with type 2 it is
> something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
>
> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever
> self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people with
> type 2.
So far, every T2 patient I've seen has had their sugar levels below 100 by
simple diet and exercise and cutting out the refuse they eat. As far as I'm
concerned, this is *cured*. If you read the statistics most T2 diabetes is
caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are overweight, diabetes
is higher here than most other countries. Most people who can't cure their
diabetes are not trying hard enough. We rely far too much on medicines to
hide the symptoms other than to find the underlying cause and solution.
These are simple facts that can be easily researched and are verifiable.
How many of your patients do you put on meds for diabetes? That should be
the *last* resort.
Wendell T. Stamps
"BDR529" <jake.> wrote in message
news:4af1ca57$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
If you "become" T1 then you had no choice in the matter. There is no known
preventive measure to take against T1. And as far as "medically seen this
is the only difference...." that is just a ludicrous statement. How long
have you been practicing medicine?
At any rate, 1st World countries, especially Americans, are in total denial
when it comes for the causes and cures for T2 diabetes and a good many other
medical conditions.
Wendell T. Stamps
"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
news:7lej73F...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Wendell T. Stamps wrote:
>
>> For Type II(*T2)??? You're thinking of Type I. Type 2 is not only
>> managable, but completely curable.
>
> for the most disciplined folks, but not curable even though complications
> can be reversed.
>
> That's because the typical type 2 has already lost approx. 50% of
> irreplaceable pancreatic beta cell mass by the time of diagnosis.
>
> And some diabetes is caused by undiagnosed and/or sub clinical
> hypercortisolemia, or growth hormone excess, or other endocrine
> disturbance other than insulin resistance that diet and exercise doesn't
> control.
Yes, *some*.
BDR529
I presume that you talk about their fasting BG levels.
> as I'm concerned, this is *cured*. If you read the statistics most T2
No, you don't just cure type 2, this is not true, read on...
> diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are
> overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most
> people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We
> rely far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to find
> the underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that can be
> easily researched and are verifiable.
Let me ask a question, are you suffering side effects from certain
medicines, or are you afraid of taking them?
>
> How many of your patients do you put on meds for diabetes? That should
> be the *last* resort.
I follow the advise of a doctor and I recommend you do the same. For
more information you could perhaps read the following:
http://www.diabetes.org.nz/about_diabetes/type_2_diabetes
It contains the section:
Is Type 2 diabetes curable?
In people with Type 2 diabetes, glucose builds up in the blood. But with
good management, your blood glucose levels may go down to normal again.
But this does not mean you are cured. Instead, a blood glucose level in
your target range shows that your treatment plan is working and that you
are taking care of your diabetes.
And also:
Are lifestyle changes enough?
Type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition. This means that over time
you will gradually produce less and less insulin. Although you may be
able to manage your blood glucose levels in the healthy range by eating
healthy food and having regular exercise for a number of years, most
people come to need tablets or insulin as well as their food an exercise
plan.
My conclusion is still, as I said before: once you have diabetes it will
be with you for the rest of your life.
Maybe you find it unpleasant to hear, but I would accept this as a fact,
Q
BDR529
Why is this ludicrous? Type 1 = no insulin production, Type 2 =
insufficient insulin production. What is your problem?
>
> At any rate, 1st World countries, especially Americans, are in total
> denial when it comes for the causes and cures for T2 diabetes and a good
> many other medical conditions.
Sure, denial is a well known phenomenon not only in the US by the way.
It is a pretty ugly global phenomenon when you're talking about many
medical conditions. People just don't want to hear bad news and accept it.
Q
Wendell T. Stamps
"BDR529" <jake> wrote in message
You must either A) work for a pharmaceutical company or B) be completely
brainwashed by them. To say T2 is *not* curable, is a complete falsehood.
I assumed your were a physician. I can see this is not true or you would
see this in your own patients. *My* doctor is one of my own colleagues who
has the same experiences with T2 patients. Most cases are totally curable.
There are some FEW exceptions. We generally don't see those.
Also, there are thousands of documented cases of T2 being cured. You can
ask most internal medicine MDs. If one is telling you otherwise, he/she is
a quack.
BDR529
All your assertions are wrong, I'm not a physician but a type-2 patient.
> own colleagues who has the same experiences with T2 patients. Most
> cases are totally curable. There are some FEW exceptions. We generally
> don't see those.
Your assertion is that the cure for type 2 diabetes is a significant
lifestyle change, essentially by significant weight loss and a strict
diet. My assertion is, medically seen this lifestyle change doesn't make
the problem go away. Why?
If a type 2 patient falls back into the old habits then blood sugar
would get out of control again.
Have you ever heard about the jojo effect? Obese people going through a
lot of trouble getting their weight down to suddenly return to their
original weight because they can't keep it under control?
May I kindly remind that healthy people are able to significantly vary
their weight and eat whatever they want to eat without having becoming a
type 2.
Medically seen you have therefor a condition that distinguishes a
healthy person from an affected person. We call it type-2 diabetes.
There is no trick in the book to "repair" a type 2 patient, you can not
permanently turn his condition into a situation where his type 2
diabetes simply vanished.
Generally speaking, type 2 diabetes becomes worse over time.
I checked several national diabetes organization websites including the
ADA. They all repeat essentially that type 2 diabetes requires permanent
attention for the rest of your life.
My personal experience is:
I once managed to get type-2 under control by getting my BMI down to 25,
it was there for three years.
My second daughter was born, my sister died from cancer (she was always
obese) in the same year and a reorganization struck our company.
Stress like this is normal in life, but in my case the consequence is
that I gained 25 kg in 3 years.
My BMI returned to 32, and a check at the doctor's office told me that
my BG was hitting the roof.
Presently my BMI is 26, and I'm on medication and I don't expect
anything to change soon.
> Also, there are thousands of documented cases of T2 being cured. You
> can ask most internal medicine MDs. If one is telling you otherwise,
> he/she is a quack.
There are too many examples of type-2 patients with experiences similar
to my story.
A part of my solution is, accept that there is no cure. That alone is a
permanent lifestyle change you need.
Q
Julie Bove
"BDR529" <jake.> wrote in message
news:4af1ca57$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
> MU wrote:
>>
>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>>> news:MJqdnexIo-NRdG3X...@giganews.com...
>>>> "Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:hcqpiu$48r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23X...@giganews.com...
>>>>>> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet.
>>>>> Not necessarily.
>>>> For *most* people.
>>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I
>>> know in real life are.
>>
>> failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have
>> failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie
>> counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
>>
>> You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as
>> usual.
>
> This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a
> tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a
> tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing
> with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a
> different situation than the average house cat in your room.
>
> Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
>
> There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG
> under control.
>
> The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production
> is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety
> of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
You are wrong there! Most but not all people with type 2 produce plenty if
not waaaay too much insulin but they have insulin resistance so their bodies
can't use it right.
> There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac
> problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one
> of them.
True.
>
> If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and
> then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the
> only difference between type 1 and type 2.
Type 1's can be insulin resistant as well.
MU
> MU wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Charly Coughran wrote:
>>
>>> The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on
>>> the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a
>>> frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the
>>> alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the
>>> current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find
>>> someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign,
>>> but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you
>>> part of the treatment team.
>>
>> It also helps if that DR. has some clue about weigh control, what
>> overconsumption *really* is and rejects calorie counting. If he doesn't
>> match up to all of these criteria, kiss his sorry ass goodbye.
>
> @MU: I've heard the words "overconsumption" and "calorie restriction" so
> often from your beak that I doubt whether you know something else.
@BDR then you would, again, and likely will continue to be, wrong.
> Heart
> problems and diabetes, can have various underlying reasons.
Really wow how interestingzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> Once again,
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> check some facts before bothering anyone in these NG's with your more
> than complete inadequate and illiterate bull shit.
>
> Q
"More than complete"?
lol
As in my cup runneth over(consumed). lol
MU
> No, you don't just cure type 2, this is not true, read on...
>
>> diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are
>> overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most
>> people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We
>> rely far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to find
>> the underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that can be
>> easily researched and are verifiable.
>
> Let me ask a question, are you suffering side effects from certain
> medicines, or are you afraid of taking them?
Ooooh, nice shift and dodge there @BDR, you getting really goooood at
smoke and mirrors.
lol
MU
> BDR You must either A) work for a pharmaceutical company or B) be completely
> brainwashed by them. To say T2 is *not* curable, is a complete falsehood.
> I assumed your were a physician.
A physician? Surely you jest. @BDR is licenses alright...as a
SMJ...simple minded jerk.
> I can see this is not true or you would
> see this in your own patients. *My* doctor is one of my own colleagues who
> has the same experiences with T2 patients. Most cases are totally curable.
> There are some FEW exceptions. We generally don't see those.
Yes and most is curable with proper consumption and both Chung and I
have seen that the 2PD/day regimen works very well.
> Also, there are thousands of documented cases of T2 being cured. You can
> ask most internal medicine MDs. If one is telling you otherwise, he/she is
> a quack.
There telling him but his SMJ license kicks in. Nothing penetrates the
Neanderthal skull, Wendell,
MU
> Why is this ludicrous? Type 1 = no insulin production, Type 2 =
> insufficient insulin production. What is your problem?
>
>>
>> At any rate, 1st World countries, especially Americans, are in total
>> denial when it comes for the causes and cures for T2 diabetes and a good
>> many other medical conditions.
>
> Sure, denial is a well known phenomenon not only in the US by the way.
> It is a pretty ugly global phenomenon when you're talking about many
> medical conditions. People just don't want to hear bad news and accept it.
>
> Q
So speaketh one...in denial.
MU
> MU schrieb:
> [...]
>>
>> We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch
>> of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
>
> No, we don't.
Uh, like Yes we do, the OP said so, that he was running high BP *after*
overconsuming. Next time you want to bust into the middle of a
discussion, why not *read* it first.
duh.
MU
> MU schrieb:
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>
>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe
>>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it
>>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>
>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more.
>>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are
>>>different for everyone.
>>
>> Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or
>> foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>>
>> Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
>
> Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach
> and not a diet?
I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
YMMV.
> Don't overconsume.
>
> No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the
basis of the 2PD
> The basis for
> the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat
> for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a
> 4-feet female couch potatoe.
>
> HTH,
For blatant lying, yeah, it helps point out that you are a blatant liar.
> Thorsten
T-Bone.
MoSn
(in article <hcumas$dot$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> Yes and most is curable with proper consumption and both Chung and I
> have seen that the 2PD/day regimen works very well.
Any citations in the main medical literature to back up that diet. You seem
to be able to ignore questions you do not like but are critical of others.
QJ
(in article <0001HW.C7176C14...@news.x-privat.org>):
That question has been asked before. Certainly have to wonder as MU does
seem to support and parrot Chung pretty much all the time with an occasional
mild exception to make it plausible that he is not.
Either way, they are one or the same.
Julie Bove
Huh? Type 1's must use insulin. No diabetes is curable. Now run away
troll.
BDR529
Wendy thinks t-2 can be cured with a diet, I tried to convince her that
this is simply not the case.
I don't classify Wendy as a spammer, she seems more like a newbie.
Q
MU
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>> news:hPSdnUTS2tDlj2_X...@giganews.com...
>>> "Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> news:hcqr47$efl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:MJqdnexIo-NRdG3X...@giganews.com...
>>>>> "Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hcqpiu$48r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <ano...@x.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23X...@giganews.com...
>>>>>>> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet.
>>>>>> Not necessarily.
>>>>> For *most* people.
>>>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I
>>>> know in real life are.
>>> For Type II(*T2)??? You're thinking of Type I. Type 2 is not only
>>> managable, but completely curable.
>>
>> Huh? Type 1's must use insulin. No diabetes is curable. Now run away
>> troll.
>>
>
> Wendy
lol
> thinks t-2 can be cured with a diet, I tried to convince her that
> this is simply not the case.
>
> I don't classify Wendy as a spammer, she seems more like a newbie.
>
> Q
Since when is "Wendell" the name of a female?
lol
You know I bet your friends and family hate to see you coming. And I
know they run in the other direction every time you show saying "Here
comes that damn big mouth *clown* BDR-Q and he going to run his
*righteous big mouth* about something -- LETS GO!"
I know they do it you clown. Have a crap day!
Thorsten Schier
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:35:17 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
>
>>MU schrieb:
>>
>>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe
>>>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it
>>>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>>
>>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more.
>>>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are
>>>>different for everyone.
>>>
>>>Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or
>>>foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>>>
>>>Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
>>
>>Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach
>>and not a diet?
>
>
> I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
>
> YMMV.
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the 2-PD approach only has two believers. Yeah,
that certainly wouldn't qualify as a party.
>
>
>>Don't overconsume.
>>
>>No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
>
>
> Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the
> basis of the 2PD
>
No, it's not.
HTH,
Thorsten
Thorsten Schier
First, the OP didn't write anything about overconsuming. He wrote
something about large meals, which is not the same, particularly if
those large meals are only eaten occasionally.
Second, as I wrote before, healthy people don't have a blood pressure of
190/105 or 200/105 just because they ate a large meal. So the OP faces a
medical problem. He may be able to avoid the high blood pressure after
large meals by avoiding large meals, but he will likely have high blood
pressure in other situations as well.
Thorsten
W. Baker
: Q
Who are you talking about? Wendy, who? I am Wendy and have been here for
a ong time and am not Wendell-please be careful who you slander
Wendy(Baker)
MU
Don't worry about it, Wendy, he's just another kid ohn a Usenet block
full of them.
MU
> MU schrieb:
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:14:03 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>
>>>MU schrieb:
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>>We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch
>>>>of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
>>>
>>>No, we don't.
>>
>> Uh, like Yes we do, the OP said so, that he was running high BP *after*
>> overconsuming. Next time you want to bust into the middle of a
>> discussion, why not *read* it first.
>
> First, the OP didn't write anything about overconsuming.
So you finally went back and read the discussion, finally, now, moving
on.....
> He wrote
> something about large meals,
"Something"? He wrote more than that but I'll be damned if I'm going to
do *your* work for you.
> which is not the same, particularly if
> those large meals are only eaten occasionally.
Ah so overconsumption is *never* one meal.
Bzzzzzzzzt.
Wrong. One, many, several...all in context, T-Bone.
> Second, as I wrote before, healthy people don't have a blood pressure of
> 190/105 or 200/105 just because they ate a large meal.
Really, how lucid of you.
> So the OP faces a
> medical problem.
Caused by his overconsumption.
> He may be able to avoid the high blood pressure after
> large meals by avoiding large meals,
duh
> but he will likely have high blood
> pressure in other situations as well.
>
> Thorsten
You have no way of knowing that, what a load you are.
OK, let me put it another way. In the movie Jurassic Park, there's a
scene where a researcher sticks her hand in a pile of dinosaur dung,
digs around, and pulls out an undigested berry. I'm sure if I listened
to more of you, I too may discover a berry, but to me, the price is too
high.
MU
> MU schrieb:
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:35:17 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>
>>>MU schrieb:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe
>>>>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it
>>>>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>>>
>>>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more.
>>>>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are
>>>>>different for everyone.
>>>>
>>>>Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or
>>>>foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>>>>
>>>>Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
>>>
>>>Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach
>>>and not a diet?
>>
>> I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
>>
>> YMMV.
>
> Oh, sorry. I forgot that the 2-PD approach only has two believers. Yeah,
> that certainly wouldn't qualify as a party.
Wrong again but you knew that because you have followed Chung and I
arond like a little lapdog for a decade now.
Why lie? Everyone knows when yu do so why do it?
That's because you're a self centered git with absolutely no peripheral
vision whatsoever. Running the risk of shattering your credibility
and usurping your OWN authority by getting your hand caught in that
particular lying cookie jar would be the text book definition of
negligence, dereliction of duty, and a grossly deficient IQ.
The only person overlooking reality is you. You have to if you want to
prop up your foil beanie theories.
>>
>>>Don't overconsume.
>>>
>>>No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
>>
>> Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the
>> basis of the 2PD
>>
>
> No, it's not.
>
> HTH,
>
> Thorsten
Considering that Chung and I were the first tointroduce the 2PD to
Usenet, USA and the world. I suppose that a *strooooooooooong* case
could be made that you are talking out your butt and we are talking from
the Author's view.
Ya' think, T-Bone, ya' think?
BDR529
You're right, Wendell T Stamps was the newbie, not Wendy Baker of
course. I owe you.
Q
--
Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!
Sue Mullen
> You're right, Wendell T Stamps was the newbie, not Wendy Baker of
> course. I owe you a blow job.
Get a room.
--
sue
Sue Mullen
> "Sue Mullen" <kjmu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4af431cb$1...@news.x-privat.org...
> Hey sue, jealous eh?Give me a rim job?
No.
--
sue
MU
Sue and Steve, what are the chances you could take your sexual
playground out of SCM?
MoSn
(in article <hd1e51$rio$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
Oh no, Sue and Steve keep it here. Compared to most of the BS of Chung and
his brown-nosed disciple and all the other trolls and religious nuts, yours
is far more down to earth.
MoSn
(in article <4af43ba6$1...@news.x-privat.org>):
Good for you Sue ... hold out for more
BDR529
This is a genuine nutcracker.
Q
Sue Mullen
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:08:17 -0600, MU wrote
> (in article <hd1e51$rio$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
>
>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:07:02 -0500, Sue Mullen wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:38:20 -0500, Steve Hopkins wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Sue Mullen" <kjmu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4af431cb$1...@news.x-privat.org...
>>>>> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:57:33 +0100, BDR529 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You're right, Wendell T Stamps was the newbie, not Wendy Baker of
>>>>>> course. I owe you a blow job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Get a room.
>>>>> --
>>>>> sue
>>>>
>>>> Hey sue, jealous eh? Give me a rim job?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Sue and Steve, what are the chances you could take your sexual
>> playground out of SCM?
>
> Oh no, Sue and Steve keep it here. Compared to most of the BS of Chung and
> his brown-nosed disciple and all the other trolls and religious nuts, yours
> is far more down to earth.
Thanx, sooooooo wanna blow job or are you of age?
--
sue
Sue Mullen
nutcracker haha not bad for a slimey troll.
--
sue
Thorsten Schier
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:18:18 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
>
>>MU schrieb:
>>
>>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:35:17 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>MU schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe
>>>>>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it
>>>>>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more.
>>>>>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are
>>>>>>different for everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or
>>>>>foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
>>>>
>>>>Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach
>>>>and not a diet?
>>>
>>>I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
>>>
>>>YMMV.
>>
>>Oh, sorry. I forgot that the 2-PD approach only has two believers. Yeah,
>>that certainly wouldn't qualify as a party.
>
>
> Wrong again
Oh, are you three or even four?
> but you knew that because you have followed Chung and I
> arond like a little lapdog for a decade now.
>
> Why lie? Everyone knows when yu do so why do it?
I remember well Dr. Chungs claim that more than 600000 people are using
his approach without a single failure. Unfortunately, as far as I know,
he has never provided any sort of evidence for this claim and I am not
prepared to accept this absurd claim at face value.
>
> That's because you're a self centered git with absolutely no peripheral
> vision whatsoever. Running the risk of shattering your credibility
> and usurping your OWN authority by getting your hand caught in that
> particular lying cookie jar would be the text book definition of
> negligence, dereliction of duty, and a grossly deficient IQ.
>
> The only person overlooking reality is you. You have to if you want to
> prop up your foil beanie theories.
>
>>>>Don't overconsume.
>>>>
>>>>No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
>>>
>>>Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the
>>>basis of the 2PD
>>>
>>
>>No, it's not.
>>
>>HTH,
>>
>>Thorsten
>
>
> Considering that Chung and I were the first tointroduce the 2PD to
> Usenet, USA and the world. I suppose that a *strooooooooooong* case
> could be made that you are talking out your butt and we are talking from
> the Author's view.
>
> Ya' think, T-Bone, ya' think?
No.
Thorsten
Thorsten Schier
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:26:27 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
>>which is not the same, particularly if
>>those large meals are only eaten occasionally.
>
>
> Ah so overconsumption is *never* one meal.
>
>
> Bzzzzzzzzt.
>
> Wrong. One, many, several...all in context, T-Bone.
>
The context being that the OP usually eats "like a mouse" as he states
himself. You have to pay attention. So overall there is hardly any
overconsumption.
>
>>Second, as I wrote before, healthy people don't have a blood pressure of
>>190/105 or 200/105 just because they ate a large meal.
>
>
> Really, how lucid of you.
>
>
>>So the OP faces a
>>medical problem.
>
>
> Caused by his overconsumption.
>
No.
>
>>He may be able to avoid the high blood pressure after
>>large meals by avoiding large meals,
>
>
> duh
>
>
>>but he will likely have high blood
>>pressure in other situations as well.
>>
>>Thorsten
>
>
> You have no way of knowing that, what a load you are.
Neither have you a way of knowing that this is not the case. But his
doctor may know more about this and may have had his reasons why he put
the OP on medication.
Thorsten
Sue Mullen
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Sue Mullen wrote:
>
>> Thanx, sooooooo wanna blow job or are you of age?
>
> I would be really, truly shocked if this were the Sue Mullen I recall
> using this nick on asm for many years.
>
> Susan
Hi Susan I go both ways.
--
sue
MU
> MU schrieb:
>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:26:27 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>
> [...]
>>>which is not the same, particularly if
>>>those large meals are only eaten occasionally.
>>
>> Ah so overconsumption is *never* one meal.
> >
>>
>> Bzzzzzzzzt.
>>
>> Wrong. One, many, several...all in context, T-Bone.
>>
>
> The context being that the OP usually eats "like a mouse" as he states
> himself. You have to pay attention. So overall there is hardly any
> overconsumption.
This reading w/ comprehension thing, it's dragging you down, T-Bone.
To quote: "My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up
to 190/105 after eating large *meals*.
Overconsumption any way you cut it or wish to spin it.
>>>Second, as I wrote before, healthy people don't have a blood pressure of
>>>190/105 or 200/105 just because they ate a large meal.
>>
>> Really, how lucid of you.
>>
>>>So the OP faces a
>>>medical problem.
>>
>> Caused by his overconsumption.
>>
>
> No.
By his own definition and report, once again
To quote: "My blood pressure used to go from normal range of 120/70 up
to 190/105 after eating large meals. It would take an hour to three
hours for it to come back down."
This is painful for you.
>>>He may be able to avoid the high blood pressure after
>>>large meals by avoiding large meals,
>>
>> duh
>>
>>>but he will likely have high blood
>>>pressure in other situations as well.
>>>
>>>Thorsten
>>
>> You have no way of knowing that, what a load you are.
>
> Neither have you a way of knowing that this is not the case.
But I'm not the one who made the claim, you are. Spin it, T-Bone, it
still isn't getting any better for you.
>But his
> doctor may know more about this and may have had his reasons why he put
> the OP on medication.
>
> Thorsten
duh.
You're an ass but I feel in the giving mood so.............
I have some helpful information for you.
There are exactly two categories of people who might read any article
you post. The first group comprises those who know you're a liar, spin
doctor, speaker of the obvious, and a waffling blitherer. The second
includes only those who have never heard of you..
Your spins and incoherent nonsense just give the first group an
opportunity to laugh at you, and any of the second group who see that
crap will immediately migrate to the first.
If you want to maintain as good an image as possible, your best bet?
Shut up.
MU
> I remember well Dr.......<snipped spin and diversion>
There you go again, T-Bone, the non answer answer.
<remainder of T-Bone spin doctoring and blithering edited out for its
complete uselessness>
Thorsten Schier
[...]
>
> If you want to maintain as good an image as possible, your best bet?
>
> Shut up.
Why don't you take your own advise if have to contribute nothing but
insults?
HTH,
Thorsten
Thorsten Schier
>
[...]
>
>
> There you go again, T-Bone, the non answer answer.
Not the answer you liked, I take it, which is why you felt forced to
snip it. Afraid of facing the truth, are you?
Thorsten
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Sue Mullen wrote:
>
> > Hi Susan I go both ways.
>
The only way to reverse/cure type-2 diabetes is by losing the VAT:
Love in the truth,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Heart Doctor
and Author of "Trust the Truth:"
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?
Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?