propranolol / inderal / beta blockers / insulin resistance
Piglette
A search of discussions shows me that this has been brought up
before. However, I have not been able to find a previous post that is
specific enough to my questions. So, please indulge me (or else scoot
right on by this message) as I ask what may be repetitive questions
re: propranolol / inderal / beta blockers.
Ever since my diagnosis (just over a year ago), I have mused over the
vagaries of genetics and chance within my biological family. Given
two grandfathers having had Type 2, and with a distinct family
tendency to overweight (especially "apple-shaped" overweight), it
isn't too surprising that I developed Type 2. However, I really
didn't expect the dx as soon as it came. I have three older
siblings,and one younger, who all fully share my lousy genetics, and
who are ALL just as overweight as I -- two of them are distinctly
apple-shaped; two are moderately apple-shaped. (The older brother has
a size-16 neck.) All of them are about equally sedentary. Given that
there are three older siblings (plus one not so much younger), I
always figured that they would be the canaries in the Type 2 mine.
But none of them "sang first." (Actually, I think that the canaries
in the real mines STOP singing when there are dangerous levels of gas,
but I will take a rhetorical detour here.) In fact, all siblings have
annual blood-glucose checks, and none of them are yet even "PRE-
diabetic" !
This constant musing has led me to consider variables outside of
random chance and the genetic lottery. This led me to do some
research (including in NEJM) on beta blockers. (Fat, sedentary,
age-50-plus siblings with family history of Type 2 do not take beta
blockers.)
Several years ago, my practitioner prescribed Inderal at 80 mg daily,
not to treat high blood pressure, but as an anti-migraine measure.
(It has had a beneficial effect on the migraines.) Now, I am
wondering if/how much this might have contributed to insulin
resistance.
The medical literature suggests that beta blockers (as opposed to
other drug treatments for hypertension) do carry an increased risk for
development of Type 2 diabetes. (Recent NEJM article puts the
increase in risk at 28%, controlling for many variables.) The
mechanism of action in development of Type 2 seems to be increased
insulin resistance (i.e., not decreased insulin production).
While it is obviously no good asking you all what role Inderal may or
may not have played in my own development of Type 2 (who knows...?
and would it matter to me at this point...?), I am curious about
this : For those of you who have discontinued beta blockers (I have
read that several of you have at least switched to ACE inhibitors,
etc.), did you see a measurable effect on your subsequent blood
glucose levels?
What have been the (admittedly anecdotal) experiences of those of you
within this group, with respect to timing of development of Type 2,
correlated with high or low dosage of beta blockers, especially in the
ABSENCE of hypertension? (Although, as the medical literature says,
only a minority of folks are prescribed beta blockers for conditions
other than hypertension. And, of course, hypertension is widespread
among Type 2s.) At what dosage levels? Over what periods of time?
More important: Has anyone seen any improvement in blood glucose
levels (or confirmed decrease in insulin resistance) after
discontinuing beta blockers / Inderal / propranolol?
Thanks...
-- J.
Julie Bove
"Piglette" <jlai...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ffb7fce7-fe0d-4552...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I can't remember how many years went by after starting on a beta blocker
before I was diagnosed with diabetes. My guess would be at least 7-10. I
was slightly overweight when I was put on the beta blocker and my weight
went up from there, although I did manage to lose weight and keep it off for
a couple of years during that period of time by practically starving myself
and exercising to the point of injury.
I went off the beta blocker while pregnant. I was then diagnosed with GD.
And at the very end of my pregnancy (2 days before my due date) I began to
show signs of pre-eclampsia. My BP went very high during the labor.
bgl
news:ffb7fce7-fe0d-4552...@v39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> vagaries of genetics and chance within my biological family. Given
> two grandfathers having had Type 2, and with a distinct family
> tendency to overweight (especially "apple-shaped" overweight), it
> isn't too surprising that I developed Type 2. However, I really
> didn't expect the dx as soon as it came. I have three older
> siblings,and one younger, who all fully share my lousy genetics, and
> who are ALL just as overweight as I -- two of them are distinctly
> apple-shaped; two are moderately apple-shaped. (The older brother has
> a size-16 neck.) All of them are about equally sedentary. Given that
> there are three older siblings (plus one not so much younger), I
> always figured that they would be the canaries in the Type 2 mine.
> But none of them "sang first." (Actually, I think that the canaries
> in the real mines STOP singing when there are dangerous levels of gas,
> but I will take a rhetorical detour here.) In fact, all siblings have
> annual blood-glucose checks, and none of them are yet even "PRE-
> diabetic" !
>
Just because you are all related doesn't mean they got the same diabetes
gene in the same way you did (or any at all for that matter). They
didn't get plenty of other exact-same-genes as you did either.
bj
Piglette
> "Piglette" <jlaid...@verizon.net> wrote in message
bj --
No question about that!
My musing is not based on the idea that I and my siblings are
genetically identical. Yet, overall: If a first-degree relative has
Type 2 diabetes, the odds of developing it seem to be about 1 in 3 for
any given individual. My personal biology biology and the "family
math" become murky here, because the relatives involved were second-
degree (grandparents), but were doubled (maternal and paternal sides
of the family). As I look back on it, it is quite likely that our
father either had diabetes or was headed there, but he died before age
60, and he would not have been screened for blood glucose in his era.
In any event, I certainly do not WISH any illness on my siblings, all
of whom are very dear to me. And you are absolutely right about the
unpredictability of genetics. It just struck me as odd that I have
been SO VERY MUCH like my siblings in all other aspects of health and
lifestyle -- and then, boom, a condition that develops as we age
strikes me, almost the youngest! I hit the same weight and same
weight distribution as did my sisters, at the same age as they hit it
(but several years later than they, because I am younger). Sisters
and I are the same height; eat very, very similar diets (or used to,
anyway). We have similar blood pressure readings; similar history of
migraine; very similar experiences with overall health. I got reading
glasses when I was 40, just as did two of my older siblings. We are
all even going gray at the same rate. In fact, it is hard for me to
think of a way in which our health or lifestyle was NOT similar, prior
to my developing Type 2 (and changing my diet and losing almost 50
pounds and exercising daily). Yes, of course, much of that health
history is independent from risk factors for Type 2 -- but much is
also related.
I hope that all of my siblings doge this particular bullet. My only
point is that in a family with five siblings all of whom would seem
share significant risk factors for Type 2 diabetes, the odds would
normally favor more than one of them developing the disease -- and it
seems unusual (if lucky) that the oldest, heaviest, most apple-shaped
of the group do not yet even have bg readings above 100. Maybe there
is some hope in there for other families who have "bad" genetics.
Anyway, bj, you are quite right.
Thanks!
-- J.
bgl
I hope that all of my siblings doge this particular bullet. My only
point is that in a family with five siblings all of whom would seem
share significant risk factors for Type 2 diabetes, the odds would
normally favor more than one of them developing the disease -- and it
seems unusual (if lucky) that the oldest, heaviest, most apple-shaped
of the group do not yet even have bg readings above 100. Maybe there
is some hope in there for other families who have "bad" genetics.
Anyway, bj, you are quite right.
Thanks!
-- J.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
s**t happens. or sometimes not.
bj
Trinkwasser
wrote:
>Just because you are all related doesn't mean they got the same diabetes
>gene in the same way you did (or any at all for that matter). They
>didn't get plenty of other exact-same-genes as you did either.
That's why I bang on endlessly about my family, there's a weird
distribution whereby most everyone has some symptoms of metabolic
syndrome but only a few get the full set, or diabetes proper. In
retrospect I had reactive hypoglycemia/impaired glucose tolerance
right back from childhood. An aunt had the blood pressure of a thirty
year old aged 80, I was the other way round. Her younger slimmer
fitter sister had the crap lipids including gallstones and the high
BP. Mother is tiny and fit but has had high BP for 40 - 50 years, her
lipids are still brilliant. A cousin reached his sixties before
showing symptoms (high BP, lipids, postprandial BG spikes) which his
daughter is already showing at half his age. Mostly the overweight
people measure significantly better than us skinnies, the major
problem appears to be insulin resistance but it is disconnected from
the leptin resistance which appears to be the factor in generating
overweight.
I know other families where the relationships are much simpler,
everyone goes apple shaped and dies early from heart attacks :(