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Brain Circuitry is Different for Women with Anorexia and Obesity
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flob...@aol.com
May 17, 2012, 8:34:15 AM5/17/12
to
University of Colorado School of Medicine scientist looks at reward
circuits in the brain
5/14/2012
AURORA, Colo. - Why does one person become anorexic and another obese? A
study recently published by a University of Colorado School of Medicine
researcher shows that reward circuits in the brain are sensitized in
anorexic women and desensitized in obese women. The findings also
suggest that eating behavior is related to brain dopamine pathways
involved in addictions.
http://tinyurl.com/c3st7dq
circuits in the brain
5/14/2012
AURORA, Colo. - Why does one person become anorexic and another obese? A
study recently published by a University of Colorado School of Medicine
researcher shows that reward circuits in the brain are sensitized in
anorexic women and desensitized in obese women. The findings also
suggest that eating behavior is related to brain dopamine pathways
involved in addictions.
http://tinyurl.com/c3st7dq
outsider
May 17, 2012, 10:11:38 AM5/17/12
to
self-organizing in everyone. It sounds to me as though this study was
created for the sake of sensationalism. Next stop, a very similar study
of sex offenders?
Maya Zuiderweg
May 17, 2012, 11:38:23 AM5/17/12
to
outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
Being a pedophile or not, already "circuited" in the womb.
I.e.: the circuits are there (in this case: the dangers are there),
triggers (or not) happen after.
Nature and nurture: both matter.
M.
I.e.: the circuits are there (in this case: the dangers are there),
triggers (or not) happen after.
Nature and nurture: both matter.
M.
outsider
May 17, 2012, 1:44:05 PM5/17/12
to
On 5/17/2012 10:38 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>> On 5/17/2012 7:34 AM, flob...@aol.com wrote:
>>> University of Colorado School of Medicine scientist looks at reward
>>> circuits in the brain
>>>
>>> 5/14/2012
>>>
>>> AURORA, Colo. - Why does one person become anorexic and another obese? A
>>> study recently published by a University of Colorado School of Medicine
>>> researcher shows that reward circuits in the brain are sensitized in
>>> anorexic women and desensitized in obese women. The findings also
>>> suggest that eating behavior is related to brain dopamine pathways
>>> involved in addictions.
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/c3st7dq
>>
>> I was always of the impression that brain circuitry is, to some extent,
>> self-organizing in everyone. It sounds to me as though this study was
>> created for the sake of sensationalism. Next stop, a very similar study
>> of sex offenders?
>
> Being a pedophile or not, already "circuited" in the womb.
That's an easy way out, IMO. If it were an absolute certainty then
> outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>> On 5/17/2012 7:34 AM, flob...@aol.com wrote:
>>> University of Colorado School of Medicine scientist looks at reward
>>> circuits in the brain
>>>
>>> 5/14/2012
>>>
>>> AURORA, Colo. - Why does one person become anorexic and another obese? A
>>> study recently published by a University of Colorado School of Medicine
>>> researcher shows that reward circuits in the brain are sensitized in
>>> anorexic women and desensitized in obese women. The findings also
>>> suggest that eating behavior is related to brain dopamine pathways
>>> involved in addictions.
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/c3st7dq
>>
>> I was always of the impression that brain circuitry is, to some extent,
>> self-organizing in everyone. It sounds to me as though this study was
>> created for the sake of sensationalism. Next stop, a very similar study
>> of sex offenders?
>
> Being a pedophile or not, already "circuited" in the womb.
pedophiles should be treated as disabled rather than as criminals,
and I don't think very many, including your truly, who believe that!
> I.e.: the circuits are there (in this case: the dangers are there),
> triggers (or not) happen after.
of choice and self-organization based entirely on experience.
> Nature and nurture: both matter.
It is an unusually rare instance, although at least one case is
documented, of someone forcing another to rob a bank. Otherwise
there is always choice. Propensity is not choice.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 17, 2012, 3:05:30 PM5/17/12
to
outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
> On 5/17/2012 10:38 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>> On 5/17/2012 7:34 AM, flob...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> University of Colorado School of Medicine scientist looks at reward
>>>> circuits in the brain
>>>>
>>>> 5/14/2012
>>>>
>>>> AURORA, Colo. - Why does one person become anorexic and another obese? A
>>>> study recently published by a University of Colorado School of Medicine
>>>> researcher shows that reward circuits in the brain are sensitized in
>>>> anorexic women and desensitized in obese women. The findings also
>>>> suggest that eating behavior is related to brain dopamine pathways
>>>> involved in addictions.
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/c3st7dq
>>>
>>> I was always of the impression that brain circuitry is, to some extent,
>>> self-organizing in everyone. It sounds to me as though this study was
>>> created for the sake of sensationalism. Next stop, a very similar study
>>> of sex offenders?
>>
>> Being a pedophile or not, already "circuited" in the womb.
>
> That's an easy way out, IMO. If it were an absolute certainty then
> pedophiles should be treated as disabled rather than as criminals,
> and I don't think very many, including your truly, who believe that!
Homosexuality is also "already" wired in the womb.
> On 5/17/2012 10:38 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>> On 5/17/2012 7:34 AM, flob...@aol.com wrote:
>>>> University of Colorado School of Medicine scientist looks at reward
>>>> circuits in the brain
>>>>
>>>> 5/14/2012
>>>>
>>>> AURORA, Colo. - Why does one person become anorexic and another obese? A
>>>> study recently published by a University of Colorado School of Medicine
>>>> researcher shows that reward circuits in the brain are sensitized in
>>>> anorexic women and desensitized in obese women. The findings also
>>>> suggest that eating behavior is related to brain dopamine pathways
>>>> involved in addictions.
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/c3st7dq
>>>
>>> I was always of the impression that brain circuitry is, to some extent,
>>> self-organizing in everyone. It sounds to me as though this study was
>>> created for the sake of sensationalism. Next stop, a very similar study
>>> of sex offenders?
>>
>> Being a pedophile or not, already "circuited" in the womb.
>
> That's an easy way out, IMO. If it were an absolute certainty then
> pedophiles should be treated as disabled rather than as criminals,
> and I don't think very many, including your truly, who believe that!
As is heterosexuality.
Pedophilia is also a form a sexuality.
Do you honestly believe that homosexuality is learned
behavior?
That homosexuals are "disabled" people?
A long time (and in a lot of countries nowadays too) homosexuals were
seen as criminals. Go figure.
>
>> I.e.: the circuits are there (in this case: the dangers are there),
> > triggers (or not) happen after.
>
> I think the circuits exist for almost everyone. The rest is a metter
> of choice and self-organization based entirely on experience.
>> Nature and nurture: both matter.
>
> There are controllable urges, and uncontrollable ones as well.
> It is an unusually rare instance, although at least one case is
> documented, of someone forcing another to rob a bank. Otherwise
> there is always choice. Propensity is not choice.
M.
outsider
May 17, 2012, 5:47:15 PM5/17/12
to
A "sex offender" is an individual who violates the law. Homosexuality
is not (currently) against the law. Rape, incest, and pedophilia are,
at least in the US.
Each of the criminal acts listed above is a matter of choice.
Propensity to engage in those acts may or may not be be prewired, I
don't know or even care. But engaging in the acts is a decision,
that is, a matter of choice. Right now I desire a chocolate bar,
but I will not partake, as a matter of choice.
Since engaging in a sexual act with another person (of legal age,
etc) and the same sex is not a violation of any laws so long as
the act is mutually agreeable. Still, the decision to engage in
the act is a decision, a matter of choice. The fact is that hetero
men and women are also selective about who and when. Such choices
and decisions are no different whether a person is heterosexual
or homosexual.
The remainder of your discussion finds no home in anything I've
written and I have no idea where you came up with it.
Colt T
May 17, 2012, 6:47:55 PM5/17/12
to
I saw a tv show about the rage gene. 2 kickboxers tested negative and 1
Buddhist monk tested positive.
Buddhist monk tested positive.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 17, 2012, 8:14:07 PM5/17/12
to
outsider heeft uiteengezet op 17-5-2012 :
Homosexuality is against the law (in many countries).
Pedophilia too (in many countries).
There was a time when homosexuality was called homophilia.
Philia being friendly towards, loving.
Outsider, there were times in the USA too that homosexuality was a
crime.
Practising homosexuals still are heavily criminal in some countries,
i.e. there is a difference (?!).
Practising pedophiles are criminals, as they are 'engaging' young
children (assent).
>
> Each of the criminal acts listed above is a matter of choice.
Not pedophilia. The brain is already wired in the womb for that
specific form of sexuality.
I.e.: *no other* form of sexuality is feasable for these people.
> Propensity to engage in those acts may or may not be be prewired, I
> don't know or even care. But engaging in the acts is a decision,
> that is, a matter of choice. Right now I desire a chocolate bar,
> but I will not partake, as a matter of choice.
>
> Since engaging in a sexual act with another person (of legal age,
> etc) and the same sex is not a violation of any laws so long as
> the act is mutually agreeable. Still, the decision to engage in
> the act is a decision, a matter of choice. The fact is that hetero
> men and women are also selective about who and when. Such choices
> and decisions are no different whether a person is heterosexual
> or homosexual.
Nor pedophiliac.
There I put the name of Milgram.
How much choice do we have..
Any war takes the fictional "matter of choice" away from (at first)
totally sane people.
Thats no incident, thats mainstream, just as wars are.
M.
Pedophilia too (in many countries).
There was a time when homosexuality was called homophilia.
Philia being friendly towards, loving.
Outsider, there were times in the USA too that homosexuality was a
crime.
Practising homosexuals still are heavily criminal in some countries,
i.e. there is a difference (?!).
Practising pedophiles are criminals, as they are 'engaging' young
children (assent).
>
> Each of the criminal acts listed above is a matter of choice.
specific form of sexuality.
I.e.: *no other* form of sexuality is feasable for these people.
> Propensity to engage in those acts may or may not be be prewired, I
> don't know or even care. But engaging in the acts is a decision,
> that is, a matter of choice. Right now I desire a chocolate bar,
> but I will not partake, as a matter of choice.
>
> Since engaging in a sexual act with another person (of legal age,
> etc) and the same sex is not a violation of any laws so long as
> the act is mutually agreeable. Still, the decision to engage in
> the act is a decision, a matter of choice. The fact is that hetero
> men and women are also selective about who and when. Such choices
> and decisions are no different whether a person is heterosexual
> or homosexual.
>
> The remainder of your discussion finds no home in anything I've
> written and I have no idea where you came up with it.
You mean the part of "choice". Robbing a bank forced by some one else.
> The remainder of your discussion finds no home in anything I've
> written and I have no idea where you came up with it.
There I put the name of Milgram.
How much choice do we have..
Any war takes the fictional "matter of choice" away from (at first)
totally sane people.
Thats no incident, thats mainstream, just as wars are.
M.
outsider
May 17, 2012, 11:51:55 PM5/17/12
to
Your discussion of this topic is, at best, confused and confusing
to me. Either every individual has a choice whether or not to
perform a specific act at a specific time, or not to perform that
act. I believe that everyone does. The rest of your discussion is
moot as regards that particular topic. I agree that you may
believe however you want.
Don Roberto
May 18, 2012, 4:09:17 AM5/18/12
to
*Only* homosexual and pedophilic *acts* are against the law.
As outsider pointed out: there may be a language problem.
Don Roberto
Maya Zuiderweg
May 18, 2012, 11:44:24 AM5/18/12
to
Don Roberto beweerde :
Not entirely true (here that is).
Homosexual acts are _not_ against the law.
Pedophilic acts are.
You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
for sexual orientation.
Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
is your problem.
M.
Homosexual acts are _not_ against the law.
Pedophilic acts are.
You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
for sexual orientation.
Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
is your problem.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 18, 2012, 11:46:10 AM5/18/12
to
outsider beweerde :
.......................................................................
See my response to Don Roberto.
M.
See my response to Don Roberto.
M.
outsider
May 18, 2012, 8:33:13 PM5/18/12
to
On 5/18/2012 10:44 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
> You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
> for sexual orientation.
>
> Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
> is your problem.
I knew it was only a matter of time until you started attributing ideas
>
> You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
> for sexual orientation.
>
> Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
> is your problem.
to me that have no basis in fact. That, Dear Maya, is certainly
*your* problem. Please cease and desist.
outsider
May 18, 2012, 8:35:45 PM5/18/12
to
On 5/18/2012 10:46 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> My discussion is about the choice to perform a specific act or not.
>> Your discussion of this topic is, at best, confused and confusing
>> to me. Either every individual has a choice whether or not to
>> perform a specific act at a specific time, or not to perform that
>> act. I believe that everyone does. The rest of your discussion is
>> moot as regards that particular topic. I agree that you may
>> believe however you want.
> .......................................................................
> See my response to Don Roberto.
> M.
See my response to you. I have only ever discussed the choice of
>> My discussion is about the choice to perform a specific act or not.
>> Your discussion of this topic is, at best, confused and confusing
>> to me. Either every individual has a choice whether or not to
>> perform a specific act at a specific time, or not to perform that
>> act. I believe that everyone does. The rest of your discussion is
>> moot as regards that particular topic. I agree that you may
>> believe however you want.
> .......................................................................
> See my response to Don Roberto.
> M.
performing a specific act. Apparently you are unable to distinguish
between preferences and actions. That's your problem, not mine.
Don Roberto
May 19, 2012, 10:12:25 AM5/19/12
to
HERE is the internet, accessible from all of earth's 193 nation states
> Homosexual acts are _not_ against the law.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
> Pedophilic acts are.
>
Incorrect again.
There are countries that define the age of consent as "a minor who has
not reached the age of puberty" (Peru)
In Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries, any kind of sexual activity
*outside* marriage is illegal.
Which implies any kind of sexual activity *inside* marriage is legal.
Educate thyself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform
> You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
> for sexual orientation.
>
> Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
> is your problem.
>
I must refer to Outsider who I believe mentioned that [he believes] "the
brain is self-assembling", which I would say is another term for "free
will".
If you believe - as you appear to do - that "the brain is wired before
birth", whether for homosexuality or the stuff it takes to get the
physics nobel prize, you might as well go down into your basement and
jump out of the window.
Don Roberto
Maya Zuiderweg
May 19, 2012, 11:26:04 AM5/19/12
to
Op 19-5-2012, heeft Don Roberto verondersteld :
The question of free will - it seems to boil down to. Always a
sensitive matter.
As an alcoholic who has by own efforts come off the alcohol (for
addictions one is wired too, which does not say one has to get addicted
to anything, see my former post: nature matters as much as nurture), I
can say to you: I had the fortune of having a good education, which
enabled me to have an enough analytical mind to write down all my
problems and get to certain conclusions, i.e. discovering patterns, so
I could (slowly) get off the addiction.
Does this prove that I always have free will? Not at all.
M.
sensitive matter.
As an alcoholic who has by own efforts come off the alcohol (for
addictions one is wired too, which does not say one has to get addicted
to anything, see my former post: nature matters as much as nurture), I
can say to you: I had the fortune of having a good education, which
enabled me to have an enough analytical mind to write down all my
problems and get to certain conclusions, i.e. discovering patterns, so
I could (slowly) get off the addiction.
Does this prove that I always have free will? Not at all.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 19, 2012, 11:27:47 AM5/19/12
to
outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
M
Maya Zuiderweg
May 19, 2012, 11:34:38 AM5/19/12
to
outsider had uiteengezet :
It was you who wrote that pedophilia is a crime.
Later you put in that the acts pedophiles perform are crimes.
Maybe this is more clear: pedophiles are pedosexuals.
Sex is a potent urge.
M.
Later you put in that the acts pedophiles perform are crimes.
Maybe this is more clear: pedophiles are pedosexuals.
Sex is a potent urge.
M.
outsider
May 19, 2012, 10:32:39 PM5/19/12
to
time.
I have noted that addicts often absolve themselves of that
responsibility much as you have in this discussion. Concurrently,
*usually*, the reincarnation "I'll do it better next time around"
ideology completes the set.
As I wrote earlier, you have every right to believe whatever and
however you want. I do object to anyone deciding the things I
keep to myself based on their belief systems. It is obvious that
I know how to express those things I want to share, and that I
know how to remain silent about things I chose not to disclose.
Don Roberto
May 20, 2012, 7:56:22 AM5/20/12
to
pack/day cigarette habit.
Was surprised - pissed off even - at how easy quitting was.
Never looked back.
> Does this prove that I always have free will? Not at all.
I for one believe you cannot really be a sane, responsible person
without believing you have free will.
Don Roberto
-------------------------
Just say no.
--Nancy Reagan
Don Roberto
May 20, 2012, 8:31:27 AM5/20/12
to
yours truly as an intermediary....
Don Roberto
----------------------------
You live and learn. Or you don't live long.
--Robert Heinlein
outsider
May 20, 2012, 10:36:09 AM5/20/12
to
On 5/20/2012 6:56 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
> I for one believe you cannot really be a sane, responsible person
> without believing you have free will.
Should be framed and displayed.
> I for one believe you cannot really be a sane, responsible person
> without believing you have free will.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 20, 2012, 10:40:34 AM5/20/12
to
outsider bracht volgend idï¿œe uit :
is sth different.
looks like. That is: after the addiction is fully understood.
>
> As I wrote earlier, you have every right to believe whatever and
> however you want. I do object to anyone deciding the things I
> keep to myself based on their belief systems. It is obvious that
> I know how to express those things I want to share, and that I
> know how to remain silent about things I chose not to disclose.
Ive noted before that beliefs and/or beliefsystems are a very private
matter in the USA, rather not discussed or shared.
A taboo-subject.
Q.E.D.
End of socalled discussion.
M.
> On 5/19/2012 10:27 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>> outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>> On 5/18/2012 10:46 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> My discussion is about the choice to perform a specific act or not.
>>>>> Your discussion of this topic is, at best, confused and confusing
>>>>> to me. Either every individual has a choice whether or not to
>>>>> perform a specific act at a specific time, or not to perform that
>>>>> act. I believe that everyone does. The rest of your discussion is
>>>>> moot as regards that particular topic. I agree that you may
>>>>> believe however you want.
>>>> .......................................................................
>>>> See my response to Don Roberto.
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> See my response to you. I have only ever discussed the choice of
>>> performing a specific act. Apparently you are unable to distinguish
>>> between preferences and actions. That's your problem, not mine.
>>
>> That is not the case at all, see my response to Don Roberto.
>
> There is *always* a choice to commit a specific act at a specific
> time.
No. See Milgram's experiment. You *wish* you always had a choice, that
>> outsider heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
>>> On 5/18/2012 10:46 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> My discussion is about the choice to perform a specific act or not.
>>>>> Your discussion of this topic is, at best, confused and confusing
>>>>> to me. Either every individual has a choice whether or not to
>>>>> perform a specific act at a specific time, or not to perform that
>>>>> act. I believe that everyone does. The rest of your discussion is
>>>>> moot as regards that particular topic. I agree that you may
>>>>> believe however you want.
>>>> .......................................................................
>>>> See my response to Don Roberto.
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> See my response to you. I have only ever discussed the choice of
>>> performing a specific act. Apparently you are unable to distinguish
>>> between preferences and actions. That's your problem, not mine.
>>
>> That is not the case at all, see my response to Don Roberto.
>
> There is *always* a choice to commit a specific act at a specific
> time.
is sth different.
>
> I have noted that addicts often absolve themselves of that
> responsibility much as you have in this discussion. Concurrently,
> *usually*, the reincarnation "I'll do it better next time around"
> ideology completes the set.
Addiction can be a blessing in disguise. One realizes what reality
> I have noted that addicts often absolve themselves of that
> responsibility much as you have in this discussion. Concurrently,
> *usually*, the reincarnation "I'll do it better next time around"
> ideology completes the set.
looks like. That is: after the addiction is fully understood.
>
> As I wrote earlier, you have every right to believe whatever and
> however you want. I do object to anyone deciding the things I
> keep to myself based on their belief systems. It is obvious that
> I know how to express those things I want to share, and that I
> know how to remain silent about things I chose not to disclose.
matter in the USA, rather not discussed or shared.
A taboo-subject.
Q.E.D.
End of socalled discussion.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 20, 2012, 10:41:25 AM5/20/12
to
outsider schreef op 20-5-2012 :
Also a belief.
M.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 20, 2012, 10:43:14 AM5/20/12
to
Don Roberto stelde dit idée voor :
Why not?
M.
M.
Peppermint Patootie
May 20, 2012, 10:48:50 AM5/20/12
to
In article <4sCdncNQG7ULnyTS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
Yes. It's surprising how unfree one's will is once one starts really
digging around inside.
PP
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
digging around inside.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
May 20, 2012, 10:48:06 AM5/20/12
to
In article <OvedndXFvfz-nyTS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> Addiction can be a blessing in disguise. One realizes what reality
> looks like. That is: after the addiction is fully understood.
Oh, yes. Many times I heard speakers in meetings say, "I needed every
drink I took." Someone close to me says that alcohol kept her alive
until she could get to real help.
PP
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> Addiction can be a blessing in disguise. One realizes what reality
> looks like. That is: after the addiction is fully understood.
drink I took." Someone close to me says that alcohol kept her alive
until she could get to real help.
PP
Maya Zuiderweg
May 20, 2012, 10:58:14 AM5/20/12
to
Peppermint Patootie bracht volgend idée uit :
I hadnt survived without alcohol.
Unfortunately the "real" help I got to did not help, but thats another
story.
M.
> In article <OvedndXFvfz-nyTS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> Addiction can be a blessing in disguise. One realizes what reality
>> looks like. That is: after the addiction is fully understood.
>
> Oh, yes. Many times I heard speakers in meetings say, "I needed every
> drink I took." ***Someone close to me says that alcohol kept her alive***
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> Addiction can be a blessing in disguise. One realizes what reality
>> looks like. That is: after the addiction is fully understood.
>
> Oh, yes. Many times I heard speakers in meetings say, "I needed every
> until she could get to real help.
>
> PP
***.....*** could have been me.
>
> PP
I hadnt survived without alcohol.
Unfortunately the "real" help I got to did not help, but thats another
story.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 20, 2012, 11:07:47 AM5/20/12
to
Peppermint Patootie stelde dit idï¿œe voor :
Also:
I once saw an interesting program (BBC, Horizon) about how veryvery
little our decisions are made by our "conscious" part of the brain.
They make fMRI images nowadays, which show that.
M.
I once saw an interesting program (BBC, Horizon) about how veryvery
little our decisions are made by our "conscious" part of the brain.
They make fMRI images nowadays, which show that.
M.
outsider
May 20, 2012, 1:09:32 PM5/20/12
to
absolute driving force without choices. If the view you're promoting
is actually true, guilt and innocence of criminal acts become
meaningless. In college I was drinking a small amount of alcohol every
night, getting thoroughly blitzed, and paying the price with a hangover
the next morning. I looked at the situation and decided that no matter
how great it felt to be buzzed, the price the next day wasn't worth it.
The entire episode didn't last 2 weeks. I can't see that I didn't have
free will in making the decision I made.
I then decided that I could always start drinking again any time I
wanted, but for right now I should quit in order to take advantage of
the opportunities afforded. These days I have an occasional (maybe
3X a year) glass of wine with dinner. There have been years I had none.
Like Bob, I quit "cold turkey" from smoking with the assistance of a
several day stay in a hospital setting for an unrelated medical
emergency. Many I know came out of similar circumstances and didn't
make it into their car after discharge before lighting up a
cigarette. But the simple fact is that the body is almost always
detoxed by the time they're released, so "choice" is clear leaving
choice alone driving lighting up again.
As I wrote elsewhere, in my world the abandonment of free will is
usually an addict's excuse for continuing self-destructive behaviors.
Bringing this home to diabetes....
And that really isn't any different from a diabetic who refuses to
accommodate their disease by changing diet while continuing their
self-destructive behaviors. Similarly, tremendous efforts are often
made to justify choices by avoiding responsibility for the availability
of free will.
Peppermint Patootie
May 20, 2012, 7:07:35 PM5/20/12
to
In article <8bWdnX-qhtFZlSTS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> Peppermint Patootie stelde dit idée voor :
for one reason, but when you go back and look deeply.... nah. You're
just following a familiar pattern or selecting someone like your parent
or the like. It takes a lot of work to break out of programming and
really *choose* freely.
PP
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> Peppermint Patootie stelde dit idée voor :
> > Yes. It's surprising how unfree one's will is once one starts really
> > digging around inside.
> >
> > PP
>
> Also:
> I once saw an interesting program (BBC, Horizon) about how veryvery
> little our decisions are made by our "conscious" part of the brain.
> They make fMRI images nowadays, which show that.
> M.
That's precisely what I'm talking about. We think we're doing something
> > digging around inside.
> >
> > PP
>
> Also:
> I once saw an interesting program (BBC, Horizon) about how veryvery
> little our decisions are made by our "conscious" part of the brain.
> They make fMRI images nowadays, which show that.
> M.
for one reason, but when you go back and look deeply.... nah. You're
just following a familiar pattern or selecting someone like your parent
or the like. It takes a lot of work to break out of programming and
really *choose* freely.
PP
Maya Zuiderweg
May 20, 2012, 7:51:53 PM5/20/12
to
Peppermint Patootie bracht volgend idée uit :
What you mean is that working thru ones issues (digging deep)makes it
possible to recognize patterns and then breaking out of them. That is
what I did by journalling.
Once I could see that I had a choice, recovery was near.
The thing with addictions is (as I see it) one feels one has no choice
at all.
That is: one becomes ones addiction (or addictive substance).
I wrote: "Also:...".
Meaning that even in everyday life one chooses mostly from unconscious
motives.
Any advertising "guru" knows that, its pretty mainstream knowledge.
M.
outsider
May 20, 2012, 9:22:14 PM5/20/12
to
Maya Zuiderweg
May 21, 2012, 11:02:49 AM5/21/12
to
outsider bracht volgend idée uit :
We are getting things very mixed up!
Yesterday-evening there was a program on tv, which had as subject:
the pedoscan.
As I already knew (from Dick Swaab, brainspecialist/neurologist):
Just as heterosexuality and homosexuality can be showed in a scan, also
pedosexuality (or pedophilia) can be scanned.
So each of us one is born with specific sexual preferences.
In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
the scan is quite simple.
Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
should lead a life like a monk.
These sort of scans present us with social problems, which should be
further investigated.
This subject is very on topic in this thread, as it is about brain
circuitry.
Maya
Yesterday-evening there was a program on tv, which had as subject:
the pedoscan.
As I already knew (from Dick Swaab, brainspecialist/neurologist):
Just as heterosexuality and homosexuality can be showed in a scan, also
pedosexuality (or pedophilia) can be scanned.
So each of us one is born with specific sexual preferences.
In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
the scan is quite simple.
Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
should lead a life like a monk.
These sort of scans present us with social problems, which should be
further investigated.
This subject is very on topic in this thread, as it is about brain
circuitry.
Maya
Peppermint Patootie
May 21, 2012, 11:48:28 AM5/21/12
to
In article <CrKdncKQB6-HxCfS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> We are getting things very mixed up!
> Yesterday-evening there was a program on tv, which had as subject:
> the pedoscan.
> As I already knew (from Dick Swaab, brainspecialist/neurologist):
> Just as heterosexuality and homosexuality can be showed in a scan, also
> pedosexuality (or pedophilia) can be scanned.
> So each of us one is born with specific sexual preferences.
I think that's too specific. Some of us are bisexual and are rather
fluid about whether it's men or women who float our boat at any point in
tim.
> In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
> the scan is quite simple.
> Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
> of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
> should lead a life like a monk.
Most monks I know lead exemplary lives. And it's an open secret that
many monks are sexually active.
> These sort of scans present us with social problems, which should be
> further investigated.
There are plenty of urges which we must not fulfill according to the
customs and conventions of our cultures and the laws of our countries.
One shouldn't hit someone just because they piss us off. If a bag of
money falls off the bank truck, we shouldn't keep it for ourselves. We
shouldn't pick the neighbor's flowers. We should go to work even though
we'd rather not. We must pay for the care and feeding of our genetic
offspring. And so on.
Sexual interaction must not happen unless there is consent among all
parties. Pedophiles must not enact their urges because a child cannot
give consent. There are also hebephiles -- those who are attracted to
adolescents. They must resist following through on sexual urges towards
adolescents under the age of consent.
Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals have to limit the expression
of their sexual urges, too. People in positions of power over others
must not engage in sexual relationships with those people because of how
"power over" messes with consent. And so on.
While humans are at base a kind of animal, we have moved into another
realm of being, living within cultures and with expectations for
behavior. It's true for all of us, not just for pedophiles.
PP
--
"What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by means
of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works."
- Chris Malcolm
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> We are getting things very mixed up!
> Yesterday-evening there was a program on tv, which had as subject:
> the pedoscan.
> As I already knew (from Dick Swaab, brainspecialist/neurologist):
> Just as heterosexuality and homosexuality can be showed in a scan, also
> pedosexuality (or pedophilia) can be scanned.
> So each of us one is born with specific sexual preferences.
fluid about whether it's men or women who float our boat at any point in
tim.
> In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
> the scan is quite simple.
> Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
> of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
> should lead a life like a monk.
many monks are sexually active.
> These sort of scans present us with social problems, which should be
> further investigated.
customs and conventions of our cultures and the laws of our countries.
One shouldn't hit someone just because they piss us off. If a bag of
money falls off the bank truck, we shouldn't keep it for ourselves. We
shouldn't pick the neighbor's flowers. We should go to work even though
we'd rather not. We must pay for the care and feeding of our genetic
offspring. And so on.
Sexual interaction must not happen unless there is consent among all
parties. Pedophiles must not enact their urges because a child cannot
give consent. There are also hebephiles -- those who are attracted to
adolescents. They must resist following through on sexual urges towards
adolescents under the age of consent.
Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals have to limit the expression
of their sexual urges, too. People in positions of power over others
must not engage in sexual relationships with those people because of how
"power over" messes with consent. And so on.
While humans are at base a kind of animal, we have moved into another
realm of being, living within cultures and with expectations for
behavior. It's true for all of us, not just for pedophiles.
PP
--
"What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by means
of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works."
- Chris Malcolm
Maya Zuiderweg
May 21, 2012, 12:20:57 PM5/21/12
to
Peppermint Patootie heeft uiteengezet op 21-5-2012 :
Ofcourse bisexuals and shifting sexual preferences are reality.
The method of fMRIscanning showed the part of the brain where the
rewardingsystem can lit up (or not). Might work as well with other
proprensities.
But..I think that you know what I mean. "Living like a monk" stood for
involuntary celibacy. As priest are voluntary celibates (yeah).
sometimes make a decision that is not purely instigated by our
unconsciousness. (urges etcetc).
Again: advertising people know very well how to play our unconscious
needs, wants.
Politicians are famed for playing on our fears.
And so on.
We'll always be falling for it, if we want it or not.
Reality is a tough thing, I know.
We can only *try* to do the best we can.
M.
>
> PP
> In article <CrKdncKQB6-HxCfS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> We are getting things very mixed up!
>> Yesterday-evening there was a program on tv, which had as subject:
>> the pedoscan.
>> As I already knew (from Dick Swaab, brainspecialist/neurologist):
>> Just as heterosexuality and homosexuality can be showed in a scan, also
>> pedosexuality (or pedophilia) can be scanned.
>> So each of us one is born with specific sexual preferences.
>
> I think that's too specific. Some of us are bisexual and are rather
> fluid about whether it's men or women who float our boat at any point in
> tim.
This program didnt go into that.
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> We are getting things very mixed up!
>> Yesterday-evening there was a program on tv, which had as subject:
>> the pedoscan.
>> As I already knew (from Dick Swaab, brainspecialist/neurologist):
>> Just as heterosexuality and homosexuality can be showed in a scan, also
>> pedosexuality (or pedophilia) can be scanned.
>> So each of us one is born with specific sexual preferences.
>
> I think that's too specific. Some of us are bisexual and are rather
> fluid about whether it's men or women who float our boat at any point in
> tim.
Ofcourse bisexuals and shifting sexual preferences are reality.
The method of fMRIscanning showed the part of the brain where the
rewardingsystem can lit up (or not). Might work as well with other
proprensities.
>
>> In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
>> the scan is quite simple.
>> Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
>> of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
>> should lead a life like a monk.
>
> Most monks I know lead exemplary lives. And it's an open secret that
> many monks are sexually active.
Popes had mistresses, children..
>> In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
>> the scan is quite simple.
>> Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
>> of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
>> should lead a life like a monk.
>
> Most monks I know lead exemplary lives. And it's an open secret that
> many monks are sexually active.
But..I think that you know what I mean. "Living like a monk" stood for
involuntary celibacy. As priest are voluntary celibates (yeah).
>
>> These sort of scans present us with social problems, which should be
>> further investigated.
>
> There are plenty of urges which we must not fulfill according to the
> customs and conventions of our cultures and the laws of our countries.
> One shouldn't hit someone just because they piss us off. If a bag of
> money falls off the bank truck, we shouldn't keep it for ourselves. We
> shouldn't pick the neighbor's flowers. We should go to work even though
> we'd rather not. We must pay for the care and feeding of our genetic
> offspring. And so on.
>
> Sexual interaction must not happen unless there is consent among all
> parties. Pedophiles must not enact their urges because a child cannot
> give consent. There are also hebephiles -- those who are attracted to
> adolescents. They must resist following through on sexual urges towards
> adolescents under the age of consent.
>
> Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals have to limit the expression
> of their sexual urges, too. People in positions of power over others
> must not engage in sexual relationships with those people because of how
> "power over" messes with consent. And so on.
>
> While humans are at base a kind of animal, we have moved into another
> realm of being, living within cultures and with expectations for
> behavior. It's true for all of us, not just for pedophiles.
We (as humans) have developed a front-lobe in our brains that can
>> These sort of scans present us with social problems, which should be
>> further investigated.
>
> There are plenty of urges which we must not fulfill according to the
> customs and conventions of our cultures and the laws of our countries.
> One shouldn't hit someone just because they piss us off. If a bag of
> money falls off the bank truck, we shouldn't keep it for ourselves. We
> shouldn't pick the neighbor's flowers. We should go to work even though
> we'd rather not. We must pay for the care and feeding of our genetic
> offspring. And so on.
>
> Sexual interaction must not happen unless there is consent among all
> parties. Pedophiles must not enact their urges because a child cannot
> give consent. There are also hebephiles -- those who are attracted to
> adolescents. They must resist following through on sexual urges towards
> adolescents under the age of consent.
>
> Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals have to limit the expression
> of their sexual urges, too. People in positions of power over others
> must not engage in sexual relationships with those people because of how
> "power over" messes with consent. And so on.
>
> While humans are at base a kind of animal, we have moved into another
> realm of being, living within cultures and with expectations for
> behavior. It's true for all of us, not just for pedophiles.
sometimes make a decision that is not purely instigated by our
unconsciousness. (urges etcetc).
Again: advertising people know very well how to play our unconscious
needs, wants.
Politicians are famed for playing on our fears.
And so on.
We'll always be falling for it, if we want it or not.
Reality is a tough thing, I know.
We can only *try* to do the best we can.
M.
>
> PP
Peppermint Patootie
May 21, 2012, 1:35:11 PM5/21/12
to
In article <H_SdnVIof7b39ifS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> >> In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
> >> the scan is quite simple.
> >> Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
> >> of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
> >> should lead a life like a monk.
> >
> > Most monks I know lead exemplary lives. And it's an open secret that
> > many monks are sexually active.
>
> Popes had mistresses, children..
Popes aren't generally monks. I'm not sure if there have been any Popes
who have been vowed religious (monks/friars).
> But..I think that you know what I mean. "Living like a monk" stood for
> involuntary celibacy. As priest are voluntary celibates (yeah).
It's the other way around. One wouldn't become a monk unless one was
choosing all aspects of the life of a monk. The vows of poverty,
chastity, and obedience are essential to becoming a monk (or a nun).
(Interpretation of how one lives out those vows may differ from monk to
monk, and one should note that chastity can be very different from
celibacy.)
Priests, on the other hand, do not take the same vows (although they may
need to vow obedience to their bishop), yet celibacy is required of
Roman Catholic priests as a matter of discipline. It is NOT voluntary.
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> >> In the program: a scientist from a Norwegian university who told that
> >> the scan is quite simple.
> >> Now the real problem is that as homosexuals are accepted (the question
> >> of consent between adults), pedosexuals have not anywhere to go, they
> >> should lead a life like a monk.
> >
> > Most monks I know lead exemplary lives. And it's an open secret that
> > many monks are sexually active.
>
> Popes had mistresses, children..
who have been vowed religious (monks/friars).
> But..I think that you know what I mean. "Living like a monk" stood for
> involuntary celibacy. As priest are voluntary celibates (yeah).
choosing all aspects of the life of a monk. The vows of poverty,
chastity, and obedience are essential to becoming a monk (or a nun).
(Interpretation of how one lives out those vows may differ from monk to
monk, and one should note that chastity can be very different from
celibacy.)
Priests, on the other hand, do not take the same vows (although they may
need to vow obedience to their bishop), yet celibacy is required of
Roman Catholic priests as a matter of discipline. It is NOT voluntary.
W. Baker
May 21, 2012, 3:12:17 PM5/21/12
to
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
: Peppermint Patootie heeft uiteengezet op 21-5-2012 :
Every time I go into the market I have to exercise my will to not buy
cookies, fresh rolls or bagels, potatos, ice crem(except a few no sugar
added kind occasionally. I also have to pass all the bacon, shrimp that I
loved before I became religiously observant. this must be a constant act
of will for me. We all have such things in our ives. I have choice and I
exercise it consciously.
Wendy
: Peppermint Patootie heeft uiteengezet op 21-5-2012 :
cookies, fresh rolls or bagels, potatos, ice crem(except a few no sugar
added kind occasionally. I also have to pass all the bacon, shrimp that I
loved before I became religiously observant. this must be a constant act
of will for me. We all have such things in our ives. I have choice and I
exercise it consciously.
Wendy
Ellen K.
May 21, 2012, 6:20:14 PM5/21/12
to
Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot idea.
Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
themselves abused as children.
"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
news:a1o82c...@mid.individual.net...
Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
themselves abused as children.
"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
news:a1o82c...@mid.individual.net...
> On 5/18/2012 10:44 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>>
>> You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
>> for sexual orientation.
>>
>> Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
>> is your problem.
>
>
>>
>> You and outsider conveniantly ignore the issue of the brain being wired
>> for sexual orientation.
>>
>> Your not liking that pedophilia is programmed in the brain before birth
>> is your problem.
>
Maya Zuiderweg
May 21, 2012, 6:57:36 PM5/21/12
to
W. Baker drukte met precisie uit :
I would also like to _believe_ that I have a free choice.
But I am not a believing person.
Ofcourse I make choices everyday about what to eat/drink/what not/how
much/how little/when to put insulin in my body/when not/what
pills/which not/etcetc. Exercising my frontal lobe is a daily business
:-)
Wondering why spindoctors are needed, as well as advertising people.
How come they even make a good living of deceiving and manipulating our
unconscious decisions, of which we think we make them all by ourselves
out of "free will".
M.
But I am not a believing person.
Ofcourse I make choices everyday about what to eat/drink/what not/how
much/how little/when to put insulin in my body/when not/what
pills/which not/etcetc. Exercising my frontal lobe is a daily business
:-)
Wondering why spindoctors are needed, as well as advertising people.
How come they even make a good living of deceiving and manipulating our
unconscious decisions, of which we think we make them all by ourselves
out of "free will".
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 21, 2012, 7:03:43 PM5/21/12
to
Op 21-5-2012, heeft Peppermint Patootie verondersteld :
People voluntary become priests, knowing that celibacy is required of
them.
Sth that can _not_ be said about pedophiles, they _have_ to refrain
from sex.
M.
them.
Sth that can _not_ be said about pedophiles, they _have_ to refrain
from sex.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 21, 2012, 7:11:27 PM5/21/12
to
Ellen K. stelde dit idée voor :
Which does not mean that a reason for turning to pedophilia cant _also_
be found in abuse.
The gravity of the pedophiliac urge can vary.
Sex-drives can also be stronger/weaker in "normal" people.
M.
> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot idea.
> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
> themselves abused as children.
Science goes on and on and on.
> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
> themselves abused as children.
Which does not mean that a reason for turning to pedophilia cant _also_
be found in abuse.
The gravity of the pedophiliac urge can vary.
Sex-drives can also be stronger/weaker in "normal" people.
M.
outsider
May 21, 2012, 9:08:56 PM5/21/12
to
outsider
May 21, 2012, 9:16:10 PM5/21/12
to
of the parish priest, bishop, etc, leading to loss of church property to
the descendents as required by law. That problem was alleviated by the
invention of corporations and their ability to hold property, but the
celibacy idea seemed too good, from the standpoint of the church, to
let it go too easily.
Church property in the Chicago region is held by "The Bishop of
Chicago, a body Corporate."
Wes Groleau
May 21, 2012, 10:56:31 PM5/21/12
to
On 05-21-2012 13:35, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
> choosing all aspects of the life of a monk. The vows of poverty,
> chastity, and obedience are essential to becoming a monk (or a nun).
Not all orders vow poverty. The other two, AFAIK, are universal.
> choosing all aspects of the life of a monk. The vows of poverty,
> chastity, and obedience are essential to becoming a monk (or a nun).
--
Wes Groleau
It seems a pity that psychology should have
destroyed all our knowledge of human nature.
— G. K. Chesterton
Don Roberto
May 22, 2012, 7:31:32 AM5/22/12
to
Don Roberto
--------------------------
Behavioral psychology is the science of pulling habits out of rats.
--Douglas Busch
Don Roberto
May 22, 2012, 7:41:33 AM5/22/12
to
Without it I would be a zombie.
Don Roberto
Don Roberto
May 22, 2012, 7:43:12 AM5/22/12
to
Don Roberto
May 22, 2012, 7:46:06 AM5/22/12
to
How
> come they even make a good living of deceiving and manipulating our
> unconscious decisions,
of which we think we make them all by ourselves
> out of "free will".
>
will.
Nothing new, of course:
The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak (Matthew 26:41)
Don Roberto
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 10:50:52 AM5/22/12
to
Don Roberto was zeer hard aan het denken :
Poor you :-(
M.
M.
outsider
May 22, 2012, 10:54:19 AM5/22/12
to
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 10:55:11 AM5/22/12
to
Na rijp beraad schreef Don Roberto :
J.C on a bike.
Well, if you really _want_ to play and stay dumb, that is _your_
decision.
M.
Well, if you really _want_ to play and stay dumb, that is _your_
decision.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 10:59:48 AM5/22/12
to
outsider had uiteengezet :
Then _keep_ living in your world, much easier.
LOL
M.
LOL
M.
outsider
May 22, 2012, 11:35:13 AM5/22/12
to
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 12:07:57 PM5/22/12
to
outsider drukte met precisie uit :
I love to understand whats going on, if that is a more difficult life,
then so be it.
M.
then so be it.
M.
Peppermint Patootie
May 22, 2012, 1:33:59 PM5/22/12
to
In article <PoydnfvxYZZNVCfS...@giganews.com>,
the Roman Catholic priesthood. Actually, people are called by God to
priesthood. Those who are acceptable to the hierarchy and who believe
they can tolerate the lifelong celibacy that is a requirement of
acceptance into the role become RC priests. They don't volunteer for
celibacy. They grit their teeth and put up with it. Monks, OTOH, are
(ideally) drawn to a life that embraces chastity.
Analogy: I don't volunteer to have a salary under $100K per annum. It
is a condition of my job that I agree to a salary which is a specific
dollar amount which is under $100K. I agree to accept that salary so I
may work the job and pay my mortgage and eat.
BTW, there are also married RC priests. Male priests from other
denominations who are married and convert over to Roman Catholicism are
often accepted as RC priests (re-ordained) and stay married to their
wives.
> Sth that can _not_ be said about pedophiles, they _have_ to refrain
> from sex.
> M.
I'm not sure what your point is.
What do you mean by "have to?" Pedophiles don't *have* to refrain from
sex. They have a moral requirement to refrain from the kind of sex
they'd prefer. Unfortunately, too many of them are quite capable of
doing what they'd prefer.
I don't know what this has to do with priests and monks (aside from the
horrendous news stories that come out).
I think that predisposition, inclination, and orientation are all set by
a combination of nature and nurture. Our behavior is controlled by a
combination of our free will and our unconscious drives.
> People voluntary become priests, knowing that celibacy is required of
> them.
It's Roman Catholic men, not the wider term "people," when talking about
> them.
the Roman Catholic priesthood. Actually, people are called by God to
priesthood. Those who are acceptable to the hierarchy and who believe
they can tolerate the lifelong celibacy that is a requirement of
acceptance into the role become RC priests. They don't volunteer for
celibacy. They grit their teeth and put up with it. Monks, OTOH, are
(ideally) drawn to a life that embraces chastity.
Analogy: I don't volunteer to have a salary under $100K per annum. It
is a condition of my job that I agree to a salary which is a specific
dollar amount which is under $100K. I agree to accept that salary so I
may work the job and pay my mortgage and eat.
BTW, there are also married RC priests. Male priests from other
denominations who are married and convert over to Roman Catholicism are
often accepted as RC priests (re-ordained) and stay married to their
wives.
> Sth that can _not_ be said about pedophiles, they _have_ to refrain
> from sex.
> M.
What do you mean by "have to?" Pedophiles don't *have* to refrain from
sex. They have a moral requirement to refrain from the kind of sex
they'd prefer. Unfortunately, too many of them are quite capable of
doing what they'd prefer.
I don't know what this has to do with priests and monks (aside from the
horrendous news stories that come out).
I think that predisposition, inclination, and orientation are all set by
a combination of nature and nurture. Our behavior is controlled by a
combination of our free will and our unconscious drives.
Peppermint Patootie
May 22, 2012, 1:37:42 PM5/22/12
to
In article <rJzur.37411$On2....@newsfe16.iad>,
professionally said to me that not all pedophiles are made. Some are
born. Sexual mis-wiring can have a biological base as well as an
experiential base.
And I want to clarify that while many pedophiles were sexually abused as
children, most survivors of childhood sexual abuse do NOT become
pedophiles.
I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
"Ellen K." <firstiniti...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot idea.
> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
> themselves abused as children.
I think it's a mix, Ellen. Someone I know who deals with this stuff
> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot idea.
> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
> themselves abused as children.
professionally said to me that not all pedophiles are made. Some are
born. Sexual mis-wiring can have a biological base as well as an
experiential base.
And I want to clarify that while many pedophiles were sexually abused as
children, most survivors of childhood sexual abuse do NOT become
pedophiles.
I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
outsider
May 22, 2012, 2:19:52 PM5/22/12
to
wondering about, or investigating those questions that are important
to others, but not to me.
I know a rather brilliant woman who has much argumentation about
"I think, therefore I am." I refuse to become involved in such
discussions because I'm content not to wonder why I am here, only to
make the best of it. There are other intellectual subjects that
are of interest to me, but obviously they're so far OT here that I
wouldn't consider giving them play in a.s.d.
outsider
May 22, 2012, 2:29:02 PM5/22/12
to
On 5/22/2012 12:37 PM, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
Nicely put!
> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 5:36:56 PM5/22/12
to
Peppermint Patootie schreef op 22-5-2012 :
social implications.
A thing like a pedoscan can _not_ show which pedophile is made or which
is born. Or both, for that matter..
M.
>
> PP
> In article <rJzur.37411$On2....@newsfe16.iad>,
> "Ellen K." <firstiniti...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot idea.
>> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
>> themselves abused as children.
>
> I think it's a mix, Ellen. Someone I know who deals with this stuff
> professionally said to me that not all pedophiles are made. Some are
> born. Sexual mis-wiring can have a biological base as well as an
> experiential base.
Sure. Its a fascinating field of science on the go, with all kinds of
> "Ellen K." <firstiniti...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot idea.
>> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
>> themselves abused as children.
>
> I think it's a mix, Ellen. Someone I know who deals with this stuff
> professionally said to me that not all pedophiles are made. Some are
> born. Sexual mis-wiring can have a biological base as well as an
> experiential base.
social implications.
A thing like a pedoscan can _not_ show which pedophile is made or which
is born. Or both, for that matter..
>
> And I want to clarify that while many pedophiles were sexually abused as
> children, most survivors of childhood sexual abuse do NOT become
> pedophiles.
Thou art an example of clarity.
> And I want to clarify that while many pedophiles were sexually abused as
> children, most survivors of childhood sexual abuse do NOT become
> pedophiles.
>
> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
Ofcourse that must be avoided at _all_ costs!
> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
M.
>
> PP
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 5:46:51 PM5/22/12
to
Peppermint Patootie formuleerde de vraag :
They *know* what they are getting into, I find that more voluntary than
being a pedophile and getting punished by society for having sex.
> Monks, OTOH, are
> (ideally) drawn to a life that embraces chastity.
>
> Analogy: I don't volunteer to have a salary under $100K per annum. It
> is a condition of my job that I agree to a salary which is a specific
> dollar amount which is under $100K. I agree to accept that salary so I
> may work the job and pay my mortgage and eat.
>
> BTW, there are also married RC priests. Male priests from other
> denominations who are married and convert over to Roman Catholicism are
> often accepted as RC priests (re-ordained) and stay married to their
> wives.
>
>> Sth that can _not_ be said about pedophiles, they _have_ to refrain
>> from sex.
>> M.
>
> I'm not sure what your point is.
>
> What do you mean by "have to?" Pedophiles don't *have* to refrain from
> sex. They have a moral requirement to refrain from the kind of sex
> they'd prefer. Unfortunately, too many of them are quite capable of
> doing what they'd prefer.
See remark above.
M.
being a pedophile and getting punished by society for having sex.
> Monks, OTOH, are
> (ideally) drawn to a life that embraces chastity.
>
> Analogy: I don't volunteer to have a salary under $100K per annum. It
> is a condition of my job that I agree to a salary which is a specific
> dollar amount which is under $100K. I agree to accept that salary so I
> may work the job and pay my mortgage and eat.
>
> BTW, there are also married RC priests. Male priests from other
> denominations who are married and convert over to Roman Catholicism are
> often accepted as RC priests (re-ordained) and stay married to their
> wives.
>
>> Sth that can _not_ be said about pedophiles, they _have_ to refrain
>> from sex.
>> M.
>
> I'm not sure what your point is.
>
> What do you mean by "have to?" Pedophiles don't *have* to refrain from
> sex. They have a moral requirement to refrain from the kind of sex
> they'd prefer. Unfortunately, too many of them are quite capable of
> doing what they'd prefer.
>
> I don't know what this has to do with priests and monks (aside from the
> horrendous news stories that come out).
See remark above.
> I don't know what this has to do with priests and monks (aside from the
> horrendous news stories that come out).
>
> I think that predisposition, inclination, and orientation are all set by
> a combination of nature and nurture. Our behavior is controlled by a
> combination of our free will and our unconscious drives.
Now _that_ is what I agree with: nature/nurture and the rest.
> I think that predisposition, inclination, and orientation are all set by
> a combination of nature and nurture. Our behavior is controlled by a
> combination of our free will and our unconscious drives.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 5:49:19 PM5/22/12
to
outsider plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
This thread is about brain circuitry.
M.
M.
outsider
May 22, 2012, 6:07:11 PM5/22/12
to
You really meant to say "getting punished by society for raping a
child," didn't you?
A pedophile engaging in sex with a willing adult does not get
punished by any western society. The status as a pedophile has
no play while engaging in what society deems a legitimate sexual
encounter.
Deflect much?
outsider
May 22, 2012, 6:09:22 PM5/22/12
to
Deflect much?
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 8:09:18 PM5/22/12
to
outsider plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
Paidos=child.
>
> A pedophile engaging in sex with a willing adult does not get
> punished by any western society. The status as a pedophile has
> no play while engaging in what society deems a legitimate sexual
> encounter.
And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
> A pedophile engaging in sex with a willing adult does not get
> punished by any western society. The status as a pedophile has
> no play while engaging in what society deems a legitimate sexual
> encounter.
Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
punished.
<snip>
>>> I think that predisposition, inclination, and orientation are all set
>>> by a combination of nature and nurture. Our behavior is controlled by
>>> a combination of our free will and our unconscious drives.
>>
>> Now _that_ is what I agree with: nature/nurture and the rest.
>>
>> M.
Yep, I still agree.
>>> by a combination of nature and nurture. Our behavior is controlled by
>>> a combination of our free will and our unconscious drives.
>>
>> Now _that_ is what I agree with: nature/nurture and the rest.
>>
>> M.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 22, 2012, 8:15:26 PM5/22/12
to
outsider heeft uiteengezet op 23-5-2012 :
Ofcourse they do. The initial subject about brain circuitry being
different in anorectic and obese women is in itself very interesting.
Lets start again:
Reward systems.......
M.
different in anorectic and obese women is in itself very interesting.
Lets start again:
Reward systems.......
M.
W. Baker
May 22, 2012, 9:28:04 PM5/22/12
to
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
: And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
Wendy
: And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
: Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
: punished.
Pedophiles are often married.
: punished.
Wendy
Maya Zuiderweg
May 23, 2012, 9:22:54 AM5/23/12
to
W. Baker stelde dit idée voor :
?
M.
M.
outsider
May 23, 2012, 9:48:20 AM5/23/12
to
Google is your friend.
<https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=married+pedophile&oq=married+pedophile&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...348355.356451.1.356752.26.21.0.1.1.1.1088.5400.2-8j5j1j7-1.20.0...0.0.UqfwZuW3hAA&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=988dd613ec0cbdbe&biw=1024&bih=596>
Peppermint Patootie
May 23, 2012, 3:23:13 PM5/23/12
to
In article <EsKdnZHRgbLQlCHS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> > It's Roman Catholic men, not the wider term "people," when talking about
> > the Roman Catholic priesthood. Actually, people are called by God to
> > priesthood. Those who are acceptable to the hierarchy and who believe
> > they can tolerate the lifelong celibacy that is a requirement of
> > acceptance into the role become RC priests. They don't volunteer for
> > celibacy. They grit their teeth and put up with it.
>
> They *know* what they are getting into, I find that more voluntary than
> being a pedophile and getting punished by society for having sex.
Pedophiles, when they are caught and punished, are not punished for
having sex. They are punished for violence against children. Sex is
the tool they use to cause the violence.
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> > It's Roman Catholic men, not the wider term "people," when talking about
> > the Roman Catholic priesthood. Actually, people are called by God to
> > priesthood. Those who are acceptable to the hierarchy and who believe
> > they can tolerate the lifelong celibacy that is a requirement of
> > acceptance into the role become RC priests. They don't volunteer for
> > celibacy. They grit their teeth and put up with it.
>
> They *know* what they are getting into, I find that more voluntary than
> being a pedophile and getting punished by society for having sex.
having sex. They are punished for violence against children. Sex is
the tool they use to cause the violence.
Peppermint Patootie
May 23, 2012, 3:24:22 PM5/23/12
to
In article <Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 23, 2012, 6:22:06 PM5/23/12
to
Peppermint Patootie heeft uiteengezet op 23-5-2012 :
M.
> In article <EsKdnZHRgbLQlCHS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>>> It's Roman Catholic men, not the wider term "people," when talking about
>>> the Roman Catholic priesthood. Actually, people are called by God to
>>> priesthood. Those who are acceptable to the hierarchy and who believe
>>> they can tolerate the lifelong celibacy that is a requirement of
>>> acceptance into the role become RC priests. They don't volunteer for
>>> celibacy. They grit their teeth and put up with it.
>>
>> They *know* what they are getting into, I find that more voluntary than
>> being a pedophile and getting punished by society for having sex.
>
> Pedophiles, when they are caught and punished, are not punished for
> having sex. They are punished for violence against children. Sex is
> the tool they use to cause the violence.
>
> PP
really...?
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>>> It's Roman Catholic men, not the wider term "people," when talking about
>>> the Roman Catholic priesthood. Actually, people are called by God to
>>> priesthood. Those who are acceptable to the hierarchy and who believe
>>> they can tolerate the lifelong celibacy that is a requirement of
>>> acceptance into the role become RC priests. They don't volunteer for
>>> celibacy. They grit their teeth and put up with it.
>>
>> They *know* what they are getting into, I find that more voluntary than
>> being a pedophile and getting punished by society for having sex.
>
> Pedophiles, when they are caught and punished, are not punished for
> having sex. They are punished for violence against children. Sex is
> the tool they use to cause the violence.
>
> PP
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 23, 2012, 6:22:31 PM5/23/12
to
Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
M.
> In article <Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> W. Baker stelde dit idée voor :
>>> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
>>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
>>>> punished.
>>>
>>> Pedophiles are often married.
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>
>> ?
>>
>> M.
>
> I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
> children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
>
> PP
So?
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> W. Baker stelde dit idée voor :
>>> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
>>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
>>>> punished.
>>>
>>> Pedophiles are often married.
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>
>> ?
>>
>> M.
>
> I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
> children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
>
> PP
M.
Don Roberto
May 23, 2012, 8:46:42 PM5/23/12
to
Sort of like Little Yapper?
Don Roberto
May 23, 2012, 8:47:39 PM5/23/12
to
― William Shakespeare, Richard III
Don Roberto
May 23, 2012, 9:01:30 PM5/23/12
to
Don Roberto
Don Roberto
May 23, 2012, 9:06:39 PM5/23/12
to
On 5/22/2012 7:50 AM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> Don Roberto was zeer hard aan het denken :
>> Don Roberto
>
> Poor you :-(
Never argue with idiots.
First they drag you down to their level
and then they beat you with experience
> Don Roberto was zeer hard aan het denken :
>
> Poor you :-(
Never argue with idiots.
First they drag you down to their level
and then they beat you with experience
Don Roberto
May 24, 2012, 5:05:33 AM5/24/12
to
Don Roberto
May 24, 2012, 5:05:21 AM5/24/12
to
outsider
May 24, 2012, 7:40:43 AM5/24/12
to
but they're not "broken." You can click on them and they work.
Depending on the group being addressed, lots of folks will not go to
a tinyurl link because they have no hint whatever as to where
they'll end up. The long version tells you that you're going to
google.
Peppermint Patootie
May 24, 2012, 11:09:10 AM5/24/12
to
In article <XfWdnQDtXc-6_iDS...@giganews.com>,
kind they'd prefer.
PP
Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
wrote:
> Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
> > In article <Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
> > Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> W. Baker stelde dit id�e voor :
wrote:
> Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
> > In article <Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
> > Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
> >>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
> >>>> punished.
> >>>
> >>> Pedophiles are often married.
> >>>
> >>> Wendy
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> M.
> >
> > I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
> > children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
> >
> > PP
>
> So?
> M.
You've been saying they can't have sex. Sure they can. Just not the
> >>>
> >>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
> >>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
> >>>> punished.
> >>>
> >>> Pedophiles are often married.
> >>>
> >>> Wendy
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >> M.
> >
> > I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
> > children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
> >
> > PP
>
> So?
> M.
kind they'd prefer.
PP
outsider
May 24, 2012, 11:34:31 AM5/24/12
to
On 5/24/2012 10:09 AM, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
> In article<XfWdnQDtXc-6_iDS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg<$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
>>> In article<Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
>>> Maya Zuiderweg<$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> W. Baker stelde dit idée voor :
> In article<XfWdnQDtXc-6_iDS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg<$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
>>> In article<Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
>>> Maya Zuiderweg<$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Maya Zuiderweg<$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
>>>>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
>>>>>> punished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pedophiles are often married.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
>>> children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
>>>
>>> PP
>>
>> So?
>> M.
>
> You've been saying they can't have sex. Sure they can. Just not the
> kind they'd prefer.
Jeremiah 5:21: Hear now this, O foolish people, and without
>>>>>
>>>>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
>>>>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
>>>>>> punished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pedophiles are often married.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
>>> children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
>>>
>>> PP
>>
>> So?
>> M.
>
> You've been saying they can't have sex. Sure they can. Just not the
> kind they'd prefer.
understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears,
and hear not
Matthew 13:13: Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they
seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand
We will shed light on the origin of the phrase, "There is none so blind
as those who will not see?" The saying became very popular because of
Ray Steven's song entitled "Everything Is Beautiful" from the 70's.
<http://www.topix.com/forum/city/london-ky/TQOPGSUC546A6JF1O>
Maya Zuiderweg
May 24, 2012, 1:30:59 PM5/24/12
to
Peppermint Patootie had uiteengezet :
Have kids too.
So?
M.
> In article <XfWdnQDtXc-6_iDS...@giganews.com>,
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
>>> In article <Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
>>> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> W. Baker stelde dit idée voor :
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>
>> Na rijp beraad schreef Peppermint Patootie :
>>> In article <Ho-dnaGpWNQzeSHS...@giganews.com>,
>>> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
>>>>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
>>>>>> punished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pedophiles are often married.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
>>> children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
>>>
>>> PP
>>
>> So?
>> M.
>
> You've been saying they can't have sex. Sure they can. Just not the
> kind they'd prefer.
>
> PP
Homosexuals are often married too.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And then youre sure that youre talking about a pedophile....?
>>>>>> Ofcourse a pedophile can have sex with him/her-self, without being
>>>>>> punished.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pedophiles are often married.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>
>>> I think she means that pedophiles can have sex with people other than
>>> children. Often they are married and have sex with their spouse.
>>>
>>> PP
>>
>> So?
>> M.
>
> You've been saying they can't have sex. Sure they can. Just not the
> kind they'd prefer.
>
> PP
Have kids too.
So?
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 24, 2012, 1:35:13 PM5/24/12
to
Don Roberto was zeer hard aan het denken :
If you wanna stay dumb, okay with me.
I'm no missionary for the ones who are closed-minded.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 24, 2012, 1:49:45 PM5/24/12
to
Don Roberto heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
Keeping an open mind is not dumb.
Here (in the Netherlands) a pedophile has just got convicted for having
sex with 60+ young children.
I think it is much better to try and understand what is going on with
these people than just putting them away for a number of years.
It seems that in Canada a project is succeeding with pedophiles being
very much kept under close observation also after they have served
their sentence.
Buddy system, Ive read.
Now *that* is tackling the problem instead of looking away and let
pedophiles just get back into society with the dangers they still
present.
Now why DO they still present these dangers?
They are not getting *over* their sexuality.
Reality sometimes sucks big time.
M.
Here (in the Netherlands) a pedophile has just got convicted for having
sex with 60+ young children.
I think it is much better to try and understand what is going on with
these people than just putting them away for a number of years.
It seems that in Canada a project is succeeding with pedophiles being
very much kept under close observation also after they have served
their sentence.
Buddy system, Ive read.
Now *that* is tackling the problem instead of looking away and let
pedophiles just get back into society with the dangers they still
present.
Now why DO they still present these dangers?
They are not getting *over* their sexuality.
Reality sometimes sucks big time.
M.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
outsider
May 24, 2012, 4:34:44 PM5/24/12
to
On 5/24/2012 2:20 PM, Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
It is called "shifting the goalposts."
> Pedophiles CAN have sex, they just cannot legally molest children for it.
>
> Susan
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 5/24/2012 1:30 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Homosexuals are often married too.
>> Have kids too.
>> So?
>
> What's that got to do with what you said that PP answered?
> On 5/24/2012 1:30 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Homosexuals are often married too.
>> Have kids too.
>> So?
>
It is called "shifting the goalposts."
> Pedophiles CAN have sex, they just cannot legally molest children for it.
>
> Susan
Maya Zuiderweg
May 24, 2012, 7:42:13 PM5/24/12
to
Susan beweerde :
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Children are a vulnerable population whose safety must be paramount.
>
> While I think it sucks for someone to go through life with sexual desires
> that are illegal to act on, vulnerable children are a higher priority for me.
>
> Susan
Me too. Thats why it is important to *not* ignore that pedophiles stay
pedophiles, however the situation is where they are in (marriage,
living together with a homosexual, getting "treatment" etc).
With this comes also the realisation that sth must be done, the problem
does not go away by its self.
M.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 5/24/2012 1:49 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Keeping an open mind is not dumb.
>> Here (in the Netherlands) a pedophile has just got convicted for having
>> sex with 60+ young children.
>> I think it is much better to try and understand what is going on with
>> these people than just putting them away for a number of years.
>
> We understand, after much study, that once a pedophile, always a pedophile.
> On 5/24/2012 1:49 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Keeping an open mind is not dumb.
>> Here (in the Netherlands) a pedophile has just got convicted for having
>> sex with 60+ young children.
>> I think it is much better to try and understand what is going on with
>> these people than just putting them away for a number of years.
>
>
> Children are a vulnerable population whose safety must be paramount.
>
> While I think it sucks for someone to go through life with sexual desires
> that are illegal to act on, vulnerable children are a higher priority for me.
>
> Susan
Me too. Thats why it is important to *not* ignore that pedophiles stay
pedophiles, however the situation is where they are in (marriage,
living together with a homosexual, getting "treatment" etc).
With this comes also the realisation that sth must be done, the problem
does not go away by its self.
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 24, 2012, 7:54:22 PM5/24/12
to
Susan drukte met precisie uit :
> x-no-archive: yes
>
Problem is that having sex means for a pedophile having sex
*preferably* with a child.
Ones preference does not _have_ to lead to certain "unwanted" behaviors
though, since homosexuals have sex-organs they can have (make) kids, as
well as pedophiles..
M.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 5/24/2012 1:30 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>
>> Homosexuals are often married too.
>> Have kids too.
>> So?
>
>> Have kids too.
>> So?
>
> What's that got to do with what you said that PP answered?
>
>
> Pedophiles CAN have sex, they just cannot legally molest children for it.
>
> Susan
Sure they can. If one has the organs for having sex one _can_ have sex.
>
> Susan
Problem is that having sex means for a pedophile having sex
*preferably* with a child.
Ones preference does not _have_ to lead to certain "unwanted" behaviors
though, since homosexuals have sex-organs they can have (make) kids, as
well as pedophiles..
M.
Message has been deleted
Maya Zuiderweg
May 24, 2012, 9:09:34 PM5/24/12
to
Na rijp beraad schreef Susan :
> x-no-archive: yes
> being dense.
>
> Homosexuality is an orientation, not a preference or life style.
>
> Pedophilia appears to be inducible by events and molestations, not hard
> wired, necessarily.
>
> Not analagous.
>
> Susan
Because of the current events in Holland many programs, studies are
being seen into.
The newest ones are 'saying' that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.
About homosexuality _was_ also said that it could never be an
orientation, as man+woman are a reproductive team.
So it had to be unnatural and therefore a sinful preference.
The same guy (Swaab) who discovered that the homosexual brain did
differ from the heterosexual brain (and got death threats in the 80ies
when he published that) has last year published about pedophilia: that
it is "hardwired".
One can _see_ (fMRI) this.
Yes: analogous.
M.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 5/24/2012 7:54 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Sure they can. If one has the organs for having sex one _can_ have sex.
>> Problem is that having sex means for a pedophile having sex *preferably*
>> with a child.
>> Ones preference does not _have_ to lead to certain "unwanted" behaviors
>> though, since homosexuals have sex-organs they can have (make) kids, as
>> well as pedophiles..
>
> I'm sorry, I'm not getting your analogy to homosexuality, maybe I'm just
> On 5/24/2012 7:54 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Sure they can. If one has the organs for having sex one _can_ have sex.
>> Problem is that having sex means for a pedophile having sex *preferably*
>> with a child.
>> Ones preference does not _have_ to lead to certain "unwanted" behaviors
>> though, since homosexuals have sex-organs they can have (make) kids, as
>> well as pedophiles..
>
> being dense.
>
> Homosexuality is an orientation, not a preference or life style.
>
> Pedophilia appears to be inducible by events and molestations, not hard
> wired, necessarily.
>
> Not analagous.
>
> Susan
Because of the current events in Holland many programs, studies are
being seen into.
The newest ones are 'saying' that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.
About homosexuality _was_ also said that it could never be an
orientation, as man+woman are a reproductive team.
So it had to be unnatural and therefore a sinful preference.
The same guy (Swaab) who discovered that the homosexual brain did
differ from the heterosexual brain (and got death threats in the 80ies
when he published that) has last year published about pedophilia: that
it is "hardwired".
One can _see_ (fMRI) this.
Yes: analogous.
M.
Don Roberto
May 25, 2012, 3:55:44 AM5/25/12
to
Don Roberto
outsider
May 25, 2012, 4:55:24 AM5/25/12
to
Message has been deleted
Ellen K.
May 25, 2012, 12:45:24 PM5/25/12
to
Pedophilia is not about sex.
"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote in
message news:Gf-dnUS4J4k9VifS...@giganews.com...
> Ellen K. stelde dit idï¿œe voor :
>> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot
>> idea. Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who
>> were themselves abused as children.
>
> Science goes on and on and on.
> Which does not mean that a reason for turning to pedophilia cant _also_ be
> found in abuse.
> The gravity of the pedophiliac urge can vary.
> Sex-drives can also be stronger/weaker in "normal" people.
> M.
>
>
"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote in
message news:Gf-dnUS4J4k9VifS...@giganews.com...
> Ellen K. stelde dit idï¿œe voor :
>> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot
>> idea. Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who
>> were themselves abused as children.
>
> Science goes on and on and on.
> Which does not mean that a reason for turning to pedophilia cant _also_ be
> found in abuse.
> The gravity of the pedophiliac urge can vary.
> Sex-drives can also be stronger/weaker in "normal" people.
> M.
>
>
Ellen K.
May 25, 2012, 12:46:16 PM5/25/12
to
+1
"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
news:a2247e...@mid.individual.net...
> On 5/22/2012 12:37 PM, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
>
>> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
>> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
>
> Nicely put!
>
"outsider" <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote in message
news:a2247e...@mid.individual.net...
> On 5/22/2012 12:37 PM, Peppermint Patootie wrote:
>
>> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
>> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
>
> Nicely put!
>
Ellen K.
May 25, 2012, 12:49:25 PM5/25/12
to
First of all, thank you for the excellent clarification of your statement.
Secondly, and more importantly, pedophilia, like rape, is not about sex.
Regarding sexual "mis-wiring" in general, where is it written that every
itch has to be scratched?
"Peppermint Patootie" <peppermin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:peppermint_patootie-...@news.individual.net...
> In article <rJzur.37411$On2....@newsfe16.iad>,
> professionally said to me that not all pedophiles are made. Some are
> born. Sexual mis-wiring can have a biological base as well as an
> experiential base.
>
> And I want to clarify that while many pedophiles were sexually abused as
> children, most survivors of childhood sexual abuse do NOT become
> pedophiles.
> --
> "What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by
> means
> of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works."
> - Chris
> Malcolm
Secondly, and more importantly, pedophilia, like rape, is not about sex.
Regarding sexual "mis-wiring" in general, where is it written that every
itch has to be scratched?
"Peppermint Patootie" <peppermin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:peppermint_patootie-...@news.individual.net...
> In article <rJzur.37411$On2....@newsfe16.iad>,
> "Ellen K." <firstiniti...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot
>> idea.
>> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
>> themselves abused as children.
>
> I think it's a mix, Ellen. Someone I know who deals with this stuff
>
>> Pedophilia programmed in the brain before birth?!?!? What a crackpot
>> idea.
>> Most research I have read shows that most pedophiles are people who were
>> themselves abused as children.
>
> professionally said to me that not all pedophiles are made. Some are
> born. Sexual mis-wiring can have a biological base as well as an
> experiential base.
>
> And I want to clarify that while many pedophiles were sexually abused as
> children, most survivors of childhood sexual abuse do NOT become
> pedophiles.
>
> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
>
> PP
> I know you didn't say they did, but sometimes people with a shaky grasp
> on logic have trouble reading what you wrote and not misunderstanding.
>
> --
> "What you fail to understand is that criticising established authority by
> means
> of argument and evidence is a crucial aspect of how science works."
> - Chris
> Malcolm
Maya Zuiderweg
May 25, 2012, 1:29:09 PM5/25/12
to
Susan heeft ons zojuist aangekondigd :
> x-no-archive: yes
> chronic stress, including molestation... much the way PTSD changes brain
> chemistry and structure. So despite being hard wired, I doubt that all or
> most pedophiles are born that way the way homosexuals are.
>
> Susan
Summer 2011 he was on tv for 2 hours, showing that hardwiring (in this
case wrt pedophilia) was in the womb.
But you might also be right, that pedophilia can become hardwired later
in life.
Hardwired-born-earlier or becoming-later, it still presents us (as a
society) with a problem that is too important to just shy away from.
My idea of coping with this, is _not_ looking away from it, but looking
into it.
Only when one tries to understand one can come up with a solution
(however far away it seems right now..).
M.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 5/24/2012 9:09 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Because of the current events in Holland many programs, studies are
>> being seen into.
>> The newest ones are 'saying' that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.
>> About homosexuality _was_ also said that it could never be an
>> orientation, as man+woman are a reproductive team.
>> So it had to be unnatural and therefore a sinful preference.
>> The same guy (Swaab) who discovered that the homosexual brain did differ
>> from the heterosexual brain (and got death threats in the 80ies when he
>> published that) has last year published about pedophilia: that it is
>> "hardwired".
>> One can _see_ (fMRI) this.
>> Yes: analogous.
>> M.
>>
>>
>
> I think that learned behaviors may become hard wired due to changes of
> On 5/24/2012 9:09 PM, Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
>
>> Because of the current events in Holland many programs, studies are
>> being seen into.
>> The newest ones are 'saying' that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.
>> About homosexuality _was_ also said that it could never be an
>> orientation, as man+woman are a reproductive team.
>> So it had to be unnatural and therefore a sinful preference.
>> The same guy (Swaab) who discovered that the homosexual brain did differ
>> from the heterosexual brain (and got death threats in the 80ies when he
>> published that) has last year published about pedophilia: that it is
>> "hardwired".
>> One can _see_ (fMRI) this.
>> Yes: analogous.
>> M.
>>
>>
>
> chronic stress, including molestation... much the way PTSD changes brain
> chemistry and structure. So despite being hard wired, I doubt that all or
> most pedophiles are born that way the way homosexuals are.
>
> Susan
Summer 2011 he was on tv for 2 hours, showing that hardwiring (in this
case wrt pedophilia) was in the womb.
But you might also be right, that pedophilia can become hardwired later
in life.
Hardwired-born-earlier or becoming-later, it still presents us (as a
society) with a problem that is too important to just shy away from.
My idea of coping with this, is _not_ looking away from it, but looking
into it.
Only when one tries to understand one can come up with a solution
(however far away it seems right now..).
M.
Maya Zuiderweg
May 25, 2012, 1:32:51 PM5/25/12
to
Ellen K. had uiteengezet :
It does not _have_ to be about sex (as rape isnt either) but it mostly
is.
More than one would want.
M.
>
> Pedophilia is not about sex.
Look further Ellen.
It does not _have_ to be about sex (as rape isnt either) but it mostly
is.
More than one would want.
M.
>
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