The Great Depression

[Julie Bove]

I have been reading assorted books on the Great Depression. I figure since
the ecomonomy is so bad now, it wouldn't hurt to read books about a worse
time. And I am learning some things that I did not know. It did affect
pretty much every country. Mostly here we hear the stories of the Midwest
and the dust bowl and how people moved to CA in search of work. But there
was a lot more to it that I didn't know. Very interesting read. Sad, but
interesting. But...

This leaves me to wonder! The book I just finished did say there were 20
know known deaths by starvation in NY. But other than starvation, it said
that the lack of proper food available to most people caused no known health
problems. Or did it?

I would think of course that lack of proper nutrition could at least cause
lowered immunity and in the case of children, perhaps stunted growth. And
then of course there would be the countless vitamin deficiencies that such a
diet could cause. And stuff like pellagra which you get when your diet
consists mainly of corn, such as was eaten by quite a few people because
they had nothing else. But...

What about now? How does such a diet eaten by our parents affect us now? I
do realize that not everyone here would have parents of that age, and
perhaps some here even are of that age. So if we ate an improper diet in
our formative years, or our parents did... Could that cause disease in us
now? Like diabetes? I am thinking that it could! They have linked the
great potato famine in Ireland to an increased risk of diabetes. At least I
believe I have had read that in a few different places.

My dad perhaps is atypical. They did not have a shortage of food there,
aside from what was rationed. His dad was a dentist so they were well to do
until his dad died when my dad was 8. But from what I have been told, my
grandma did her best to maintain that standard of living but not only going
to work herself but forcing my dad to get a job at age 8 to help support the
family. And yes, he did continue to go to school. But he did work nights
and weekends.

My dad does have type 2 diabetes but it came about following pancreatitis.
And I believe he was in his late early 70's when this happened.

Then there is the matter of what might be considered a proper diet. My dad
did have to eat stuff like Oleo margarine and Crisco shortening. And most
likely things like powdered milk and eggs. I did ask him about this because
his grandparents were dairy farmers. But he said by that point in time,
they no longer wanted to keep the dairy running. They were elderly. So
they were in the process of shutting it down.

So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the past
have brought about the diabetes that we have now?

[BessieBee]

On 4/22/2013 12:48 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the past
> have brought about the diabetes that we have now?
>
>

This discussion belongs in a book club meeting. IMNSHO.

--
BessieBee

"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going,
because you might not get there." Peter “Yogi” Berra

[Julie Bove]

"BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message
news:kl43v3$ok5$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/22/2013 12:48 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the
>> past
>> have brought about the diabetes that we have now?
>>
>>
> This discussion belongs in a book club meeting. IMNSHO.

No clue what IMNSHO means. But no, it does not. I didn't mention the names
of the books and this really has nothing to do with that. I never took a
history class. I would presume that people would have learned this stuff if
they did.

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Julie Bove schreef :

From what Ive read (and/or saw on tv-programs) I gather that the lesser
the food was the lesser the hearttroubles and ailments like diabetes,
but dying of foodshortage was a sorry "side effect".
M.

[BessieBee]

IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion

You never took a history class? Really?? Didn't you go to high school?

[Don Roberto]

On 4/22/2013 2:10 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
I never took a
> history class.

Only in America...

[Don Roberto]

No. Most of the rise of diabetes 2 is the result of the diet of the
individual developing the disease.

[Julie Bove]

"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote in
message news:iqmdnexfpPf7KejM...@giganews.com...

Hmmm... Interesting!

[Don Roberto]

Correct. From what I have read T2s were practically non-existent in
Germany & Austria during and right after WW2 when even the general
population had to do with less than 1500 calories per day.

[Julie Bove]

"BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message

news:kl4d80$v15$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/22/2013 4:10 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message
>> news:kl43v3$ok5$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 4/22/2013 12:48 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the
>>>> past
>>>> have brought about the diabetes that we have now?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This discussion belongs in a book club meeting. IMNSHO.
>>
>> No clue what IMNSHO means. But no, it does not. I didn't mention the
>> names
>> of the books and this really has nothing to do with that. I never took a
>> history class. I would presume that people would have learned this stuff
>> if
>> they did.
>>
>>
> IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion
>
> You never took a history class? Really?? Didn't you go to high school?

*sigh* Yes. I went to high school. There was one history class offered
but I wasn't in it. I did try. But just because we chose some class didn't
mean that we got into it. Instead I learned all about alcohol, drug abuse,
various psychological things, religion. Nothing about history or geography.
The classes I took were called "social studies".

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Don Roberto wrote:

> Maya Zuiderweg wrote:
> >
> > From what Ive read (and/or saw on tv-programs) I gather that the lesser
> > the food was the lesser the hearttroubles and ailments like diabetes,
>
> Correct. From what I have read T2s were practically non-existent in
> Germany & Austria during and right after WW2 when even the general
> population had to do with less than 1500 calories per day.

Yes, overeating, which is simply eating more than the right amount,
which is simply 32 oz of daily food is the cause of T2 diabetes.

Thus, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter for it directly addresses the cause:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?

and

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?

**and**

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?

Don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a horrible (Mark
9:42) death:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e66adf59151b12b6?

[W. Baker]

Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

: >> No clue what IMNSHO means. But no, it does not. I didn't mention the

: >> names
: >> of the books and this really has nothing to do with that. I never took a
: >> history class. I would presume that people would have learned this stuff
: >> if
: >> they did.
: >>
: >>
: > IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion
: >
: > You never took a history class? Really?? Didn't you go to high school?

: *sigh* Yes. I went to high school. There was one history class offered
: but I wasn't in it. I did try. But just because we chose some class didn't
: mean that we got into it. Instead I learned all about alcohol, drug abuse,
: various psychological things, religion. Nothing about history or geography.
: The classes I took were called "social studies".

IN NYState at least 2 history classes awere required as well as geofrphy
and 1 term of economics for an adademic diploma. There was World History
and Americahn History, each 1 yer courses , usually in 11th adn 12th
grade. Where did you go to HighSchool tht you didn't have a required
History class?

Wendy= retired Social Studies teacher. History is the main subject in
Social Studies.

[W. Baker]

Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote:
: Julie Bove schreef :

The Netherlands had a serious food problem during WWII when the Germans
didn't allow enough food for proper diets and this lasted for quite a
while after the war until supplies could be brought in and farms able to
grow enough food for the humgry population. there was in intereting study
comparing the pregnancy problems in the Netherlands and the Soviet Union,
both of which had severe food shortages. Teh Dutch women did much better
thtn teh russians because they had been much better nourished BEFORE the
wr so they had some reserves to draw on. It wasnot good for either, but
healthy andsufficient nutirtion in earlier life made for healthier babies
even in very bad times.

I believe Gys wrote something about this food problem in the Netherlands
and that he ws one of the babies born during that time of deprivation.
this post ws some years ago, IIRC.

Wendy

[Julie Bove]

"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:kl4p6t$246$2...@reader1.panix.com...

History is required here now, in those school district. But in the Edmonds
school district when I went to school, there weren't many requirements. I
think you'd almost have to try really hard at it not to be able to graduate.
By halfway through my senior year, I only needed one more credit to
graduate. That's how many extra credits I had. I don't think economics was
offered. I did take a class called "Contemporary World Problems". I don't
know what the class was supposed to be about but we never did anything
remotely close to that. Some days the teacher would say that we were going
to review a film for his "Pre-Voc" students. That's what they called the
Special Ed kids in those days. We'd be like... But Mr. G.! We're not
Pre-Voc. You're supposed to be teaching us! Then it got to the point where
every day we'd say, "Mr. G.! Are we going to learn something today?" And
he'd say, "No", then send us to the library. He would actually leave his
room and go who knows where!? So my friends and I would usually go back
into the room and play hangman on his blackboard.

Then at the end of the year he gave us a test where we were supposed to
identify countries on a map, draw and color their country's flag and list
things like their imports and exports. Supposedly this was the sort of
stuff we were supposed to have been looking up in the library although he
never told us to do so. Most of us got a D or an F on the mostly multiple
choice test. I got a D. My dad was furious! Called the teacher and gave
him a piece of his mind. He knew that we had never been taught a thing and
he had contacted the school about it. That was the year that my friends and
I tried to get into the history class but it was full. So the teacher gave
me the test again. I circled things at random, drew and colored a few
flags. He glanced at it and gave me a C.

The next year, my brother was put in this same teacher's class. My dad
called the school and said there was no way he would allow my brother to
take the class. They did pull him out. I guess they got sick of the
constant complaints.

My 10th grade social studies teacher could easily be distracted by someone
asking him about his dog. "Hey Mr. B! Why did you name your dog Brandy?"
The answer? He was a little licker. Of course that works better when
spoken out loud. So then the rest of the class would be spent talking about
his dog, his kids and his wife. I merely re-did the report on alcoholism
that I'd done in the 9th grade (I actually got to pick the subject on that
one) and got the same A that I'd gotten before.

11th grade? We had Mrs. K. She probably had a mental problem. We often
were told stories of her sex life including things that they did with other
people that involved plastic sheets and Crisco. She often told us how she
would like to stab her husband (a lawyer) with scissors while he was
sleeping. This led my friends and I to be fearful of her and we wanted
desperately to locate her husband and warn him of what she wanted to do. I
don't recall actually learning much in that class and didn't even know what
we were supposed to be learning. She did warn us not to get pregnant and
one day brought in a former student with a baby who would have been a senior
that year but in those days pregnant girls were not allowed in school. And
there was mention of Mao Tse Tung but I don't remember why. I was her
assistant and she had me type up stuff on a ditto for another class. It was
stuff about Viet Nam so I did pick up a little by typing that stuff up.

Jr. High was equally silly. We did study some politics. We were supposed
to come up with a perfect society. We learned about Japanese food because
my one teacher was married to a Japanese man. We learned about prejudice
and a lot about religion. I suppose there was some stuff of history in the
religion stuff but it was the history of religion and me being an atheist
just retained only enough of it to get me to pass the tests.

[Doris Night]

I'm not snipping any of this part because it pretty much proves that
Julie is out of her mind.

> This led my friends and I to be fearful of her and we wanted
>desperately to locate her husband and warn him of what she wanted to do. I
>don't recall actually learning much in that class and didn't even know what
>we were supposed to be learning. She did warn us not to get pregnant and
>one day brought in a former student with a baby who would have been a senior
>that year but in those days pregnant girls were not allowed in school. And
>there was mention of Mao Tse Tung but I don't remember why. I was her
>assistant and she had me type up stuff on a ditto for another class. It was
>stuff about Viet Nam so I did pick up a little by typing that stuff up.
>
>Jr. High was equally silly. We did study some politics. We were supposed
>to come up with a perfect society. We learned about Japanese food because
>my one teacher was married to a Japanese man. We learned about prejudice
>and a lot about religion. I suppose there was some stuff of history in the
>religion stuff but it was the history of religion and me being an atheist
>just retained only enough of it to get me to pass the tests.

I'm guessing that all of the above is supposed to explain why Julie
never managed to take one single history class in all of her years in
high school. I don't care how bad the US education system is - this
just doesn't make sense for me.

Doris

[Julie Bove]

"Doris Night" <goodnig...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:c3tbn8tsgnluaudmo...@4ax.com...

Really? Because it was the 1970's and I had oddball teachers, *I* am out of
my mind. Uh huh. Whatever.

I don't care if it makes sense to you or not. There is no "US" education
system. Each state has its own requirements just as each school district.
Part of the reason why I refused to move back to NY was that I had an
extreme dislike for their school district and the way they do their
teaching. It's *much* different in this school district. Now had we moved
to a house just on the other side of a street from here, we'd be in a
different school district. They seem to assign a lot more homework and they
operate differently. They don't even teach spelling there. A parent from
that school district said that they told them they learned that it doesn't
help students to teach them to spell.

[Ken]

`

[outsider]

I guess they figured that any serious courses would be wasted on you anyway.

There's not the first mention of math/arithmetic or science in all the
above, let alone civics.

[Budd Cochran]

Don't waste your time, Julie, the net nannies are blooming this spring ...
again.

I moved a lot as a child from Colorado to Indiana and back with a side trip
to California.

I agree with you that each state has their own requirements and, when it
comes to credits for courses taken, some school systems can't do simple
math:

Colorado gave half as many credits for the same course as Indiana and
Indiana couldn't figure out that I had passed the courses in Colorado ... I
had to take some over again my Sophmore year.

Those two states also had different required courses to graduate and
Colorado didn't offer Art classes in high school at all, for example, in the
more rural towns ... I guess they didn't think farm kids could figure out
which end of a pencil did what.

My Mom ran a boarding house in Indiana during the Depression, my Dad was
unemployed but did odd jobs, and my Step-Dad was a dryland homesteader in
S.E. Colorado then a hobo after his third wife died.

All of them said that those that weren't willing to work had it hardest
because they wanted everything for free but there wasn't the current
governmental support system we have today.

But it made some of the lazy ones get up and work, some became bums ( not to
be confused with "hoboes" who were more like a transient laborer), and some
starved.

I can't say if Diabetes is the result of the Depression, but I do believe it
caused flu, diptheria, and polio epidemics.

Today it's the same except we have the government programs taking the place
of poor farms and church based charities.

During the last "recession", I found work when some couldn't because I was
willing to push a broom to care for my family.

Many people didn't want to lower their standards (think "income") in order
to stay off welfare ... they went on welfare instead!

Budd

[Julie Bove]

"Budd Cochran" <mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:igndt.1078$JF5...@newsfe07.iad...

> Don't waste your time, Julie, the net nannies are blooming this spring ...
> again.

Yeah. I already FKed a bunch of them.

>
> I moved a lot as a child from Colorado to Indiana and back with a side
> trip to California.
>
> I agree with you that each state has their own requirements and, when it
> comes to credits for courses taken, some school systems can't do simple
> math:
>
> Colorado gave half as many credits for the same course as Indiana and
> Indiana couldn't figure out that I had passed the courses in Colorado ...
> I had to take some over again my Sophmore year.

The reason I had so many was that I hated the two free periods that most
students took. I am one of those people who reads fast, takes tests fast,
etc. And I almost always got good grades. So I had no need for the free
periods. We rarely had any homework in high school and if it was assigned,
I could almost always get it done in class. I worked in the office, I
worked Switchboard. I was on the school newspaper and I was a teacher's
assistant. I had to get special permission to do this and had I had my way
I would have done something for *both* of those periods but they would only
allow me to do this for one of them. So that's how I got all of those extra
credits.

>
> Those two states also had different required courses to graduate and
> Colorado didn't offer Art classes in high school at all, for example, in
> the more rural towns ... I guess they didn't think farm kids could figure
> out which end of a pencil did what.

Yes. Here, they now require Washington State history which someone who came
from another state would not have. So they have to take a summer course.

Here, art is required. And not just art but a specific kind. There are
other art classes that are electives. But in NY? At least while we lived
there, they considered art unnecessary and did not offer it.

A certain number of P.E. credits are required here. Some school districts
would count Angela's dance, provided that her dance teachers signed a form
telling the school how many hours she is taking. One of the girls she is
dancing with even gets some of her dance paid for by the school! This is
the same school that Angela would like to do but I won't allow it. They
advertise as an online school but they are not really. They are a home
school. And I don't think that's a good idea for her. Anyway... Our
school disctrict does not allow students to count other activities as P.E.
except for as makeups for classes missed due to illness and injury.

>
> My Mom ran a boarding house in Indiana during the Depression, my Dad was
> unemployed but did odd jobs, and my Step-Dad was a dryland homesteader in
> S.E. Colorado then a hobo after his third wife died.
>
> All of them said that those that weren't willing to work had it hardest
> because they wanted everything for free but there wasn't the current
> governmental support system we have today.
>
> But it made some of the lazy ones get up and work, some became bums ( not
> to be confused with "hoboes" who were more like a transient laborer), and
> some starved.
>
> I can't say if Diabetes is the result of the Depression, but I do believe
> it caused flu, diptheria, and polio epidemics.

That very well could be. I did read some other book (can't remember which
one now) and it claimed that lack of proper nutrition in vitro could cause
diabetes. My mom did not have proper nutrition because in those days they
put the women on strict diets and even prescribed amphetamines to keep them
from gaining weight. But while I was put on the Exchange Plan for diabetics
because I had gestational diabetes, I was strictly monitored and I did my
best to eat what they told me to eat. It was a little difficult because it
was much more food than I was accustomed to eating. 5 pieces of fruit per
day? Gah! I couldn't always eat that much food but it was a very balanced
diet.

My friend was married to two different men. She had three kids with the
first husband. He owned a photography studio but didn't do well with it and
didn't budget money very well. As a result, they had very little food in
the house. They didn't starve but she said she had to be very careful with
the food so that everyone had something to eat. And it was only healthy
food that she brought into the house. Then when she went into Pre-Eclampsia
a few days before her due date, she said the Dr. told her, "Well! It's all
those potato chips you've been eating!" She said she really wanted to say
nasty words to him. But in her mind she was thinking... If only I had the
money to buy potato chips! She said often they'd each get a few bites of
meat and a few bites of vegetables. Because there was no other food in the
house.

Oddly enough I went into Pre-Eclampsia two days before my due date. Some
studies link it to malnutition. But I don't think so. Had another friend
who had it early on in her pregnancy and I know that she ate well.

But where I am going with all this is... None of my first friend's kids
have diabetes. Granted they are a little younger than me but not by much.
Her 4th son by another father grew up eating well, except that he was a very
picky eater back then. Less so these days.

So I don't know if there is a link there either.

>
> Today it's the same except we have the government programs taking the
> place of poor farms and church based charities.
>
> During the last "recession", I found work when some couldn't because I was
> willing to push a broom to care for my family.

That's the problem these days. Especially with young people. They place
far too many parameters on what they will and will not do for work.

>
> Many people didn't want to lower their standards (think "income") in order
> to stay off welfare ... they went on welfare instead!

And in some cases, they do better on welfare. I don't personally know
anyone who is on it now but... In the case of the second friend that I had
mentioned, she broke up with her boyfriend and moved her baby into a house
with a friend who also had a baby. She worked. Her friend did not. She
was on welfare. She did stay home with the two babies and did not charge
Mary for sitting for her. She told me that she was getting paid $800 a
month on welfare. I think that was the figure she gave me. She said if she
went to work she wouldn't even be able to live off of what she made because
she would have to pay $600 a month for daycare or a babysitter. She didn't
have anyone who could watch her child for free!

Of course there is also the notion that one shouldn't have kids if one can't
afford them. But... You just never know what will happen in your life! I
had planned to go back to work when Angela was 2. But then I became
disabled around her first birthday and things all went downhill from there.
Since then I have never been well enough to be able to do any sort of job on
a consistent basis. I don't think there would be too many employers that
would allow me to go put my feet up above my heart to take the strain off of
the veins for most of the day. Or to let me get up and walk around or
stretch when my muscles cramp. Or let me take some hours off when I get
sick to my stomach. Or any of the other problems that I sometimes have.
The thing is, for a lot of what I have, I never know when it is going to act
up. I could have a day or two where I seem pretty fine...well...unless I
have to walk very far. Because I can never do that. But to be well enough
5 days a week? Or even 20 hours out of the week as assigned by an employer?
Not going happen.

[Cheri]

"Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote in message
news:kl524u$147$1...@dont-email.me...

>
> "Budd Cochran" <mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:igndt.1078$JF5...@newsfe07.iad...
>> Don't waste your time, Julie, the net nannies are blooming this spring
>> ... again.
>
> Yeah. I already FKed a bunch of them.
>>

LOL

[Julie Bove]

"Cheri" <che...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:kl54v...@news3.newsguy.com...

Oh crap! Now that was a bad typo!

[GysdeJongh]

W. Baker wrote:
> Maya Zuiderweg <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$>
> wrote:
>> Julie Bove schreef :
>>> I have been reading assorted books on the Great Depression.

>>> What about now? How does such a diet eaten by our parents affect
>>> us now?

>>> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in
>>> the past have brought about the diabetes that we have now?

>> From what Ive read (and/or saw on tv-programs) I gather that the
>> lesser the food was the lesser the hearttroubles and ailments like
>> diabetes, but dying of foodshortage was a sorry "side effect".

> The Netherlands had a serious food problem during WWII when the
> Germans didn't allow enough food for proper diets and this lasted for
> quite a while after the war until supplies could be brought in and
> farms able to grow enough food for the humgry population. there was
> in intereting study comparing the pregnancy problems in the
> Netherlands and the Soviet Union, both of which had severe food
> shortages. Teh Dutch women did much better thtn teh russians because
> they had been much better nourished BEFORE the wr so they had some
> reserves to draw on. It wasnot good for either, but healthy
> andsufficient nutirtion in earlier life made for healthier babies
> even in very bad times.
>
> I believe Gys wrote something about this food problem in the
> Netherlands and that he ws one of the babies born during that time of
> deprivation. this post ws some years ago, IIRC.

Hi Wendy,
I was born on 1-April-1946 in Rotterdam. In 1945, when my mother was
pregnant, there was a terrible famine in Rotterdam. My grandmother told
stories about eating tulips. People were dying in the streets of hunger.

What a mother eats affects her baby because she "tells" the fetus what- and
how much food is around by modifying it's genome : epigenomic modification.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenomics>

It is a bit of a problem of course to separate the effects of lower
calories, less airpolution, less smoking, more physical activity, less
processed food, less of certain nutrients. There is also of course an
optimum for this. A bit of an economic downfall causes less death by
metabolic disease and too much famine will just cause death.

The articles are below. Free to read.
Gys




<http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/61/9/2255.long>

Diabetes. 2012 Sep;61(9):2255-60. doi: 10.2337/db11-1559. Epub 2012 May 29.
Famine exposure in the young and the risk of type 2 diabetes in adulthood.
van Abeelen AF, Elias SG, Bossuyt PM, Grobbee DE, van der Schouw YT,
Roseboom TJ, Uiterwaal CS.
Source
Julius Center for Health Sciences and Primary Care, University Medical
Center Utrecht, Utrecht, the Netherlands. a.ab...@umcutrecht.nl
Abstract
The developmental origins hypothesis proposes that undernutrition during
early development is associated with an increased type 2 diabetes risk in
adulthood. We investigated the association between undernutrition during
childhood and young adulthood and type 2 diabetes in adulthood. We studied
7,837 women from Prospect-EPIC (European Prospective Investigation Into
Cancer and Nutrition) who were exposed to the 1944-1945 Dutch famine when
they were between age 0 and 21 years. We used Cox proportional hazards
regression models to explore the effect of famine on the risk of subsequent
type 2 diabetes in adulthood. We adjusted for potential confounders,
including age at famine exposure, smoking, and level of education.
Self-reported famine exposure during childhood and young adulthood was
associated with an increased type 2 diabetes risk in a dose-dependent
manner. In those who reported moderate famine exposure, the age-adjusted
type 2 diabetes hazard ratio (HR) was 1.36 (95% CI [1.09-1.70]); in those
who reported severe famine exposure, the age-adjusted HR was 1.64
(1.26-2.14) relative to unexposed women. These effects did not change after
adjustment for confounders. This study provides the first direct evidence,
using individual famine exposure data, that a short period of moderate or
severe undernutrition during postnatal development increases type 2 diabetes
risk in adulthood.
PMID: 22648386


<http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/12/study-economic-crisis-improved-cubas-health/>
<http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f1515>

Study: Economic Crisis Improved Cuba's Health
The devastating economic crisis that gripped Cuba in the 1990s led to a
marked improvement in the nation's health, researchers have found.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union - and the subsequent termination of
Soviet aid - and amid the tightening of the U.S. embargo, Cuba's government
was forced to implement tight rationing of food and fuel. But it also
introduced policies like commercial neighborhood gardens and the use of
animals in farming in place of machinery. Cuba imported 1.5 million bicycles
from China, and produced half a million more.

The results, published in the British Medical Journal, show that during the
crisis the average Cuban lost up to 11 pounds, and the country saw a rapid
decline in death rates from diabetes and coronary heart disease. But when
the economic crisis ended in 1996,people in Cuba started to get heavier
again. By 2011, the Cuban population has regained enough weight to almost
triple the obesity rates of 1995," write the researchers, noting that they
also saw a surge in diabetes cases.


<http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/33/6/596.full.pdf>

Diabetes. 1984 Jun;33(6):596-603.
Marked improvement in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism in diabetic
Australian aborigines after temporary reversion to traditional lifestyle.
O'Dea K.
Abstract
The rationale for the present study was that temporarily reversing the
urbanization process in diabetic Aborigines should improve all aspects of
their carbohydrate and lipid metabolism that are linked to insulin
resistance. Ten full-blood, diabetic Aborigines from the Mowanjum Community
(Derby, Western Australia) agreed to be tested before and after living for 7
wk as hunter-gatherers in their traditional country in north-western
Australia. They were middle aged (53.9 +/- 1.8 yr) and overweight (81.9 +/-
3.4 kg), and all lost weight steadily over the 7-wk period (average, 8 kg).
A detailed analysis of food intake over 2 wk revealed a low-energy intake
(1200 kcal/person/day). Despite the high contribution of animal food to the
total energy intake (64%), the diet was low in total fat (13%) due to the
very low fat content of wild animals. Oral glucose tolerance tests (75 g
glucose) were conducted in the urban setting and repeated at the end of 7 wk
of traditional lifestyle. The marked improvement in glucose was due to both
a fall in fasting glucose (11.6 +/- 1.2 mM before, 6.6 +/- 0.8 mM after) and
an improvement in postprandial glucose clearance (incremental area under the
glucose curve: 15.0 +/- 1.2 mmol/L/h before, 11.7 +/- 1.2 mmol/L/h after).
Fasting plasma insulin concentration fell (23 +/- 2 mU/L before, 12 +/- 1
mU/L after) and the insulin response to glucose improved (incremental area
under the insulin curve: 61 +/- 18 mU/L/h before, 104 +/- 21 mU/L/h after).
The marked fall in fasting plasma triglycerides (4.0 +/- 0.5 mM before, 1.2
+/- 0.1 mM after) was due largely to the fall in VLDL triglyceride
concentration (2.31 +/- 0.31 mM before, 0.20 +/- 0.03 mM after.(ABSTRACT
TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
PMID: 6373464

[Julie Bove]

"GysdeJongh" <JonghSevenHundredElevenAtPlanet.nl> wrote in message
news:5176546b$0$25178$862e...@ngroups.net...

I found an interesting thing in one of the books I read. This was a true
story written by a man who survived the depression. He was constantly
telling of his dad smoking hand rolled cigarettes. Then when relief for the
masses finally came (although it wasn't much relief), they had to fill out
paperwork stating if they smoke or drank. He put down that he did not
smoke. But he was in fact smoking when the social workers came to the door.
His wife quickly hid the cigarette. But they went through their closets and
drawers looking for things. Like tobacco. And they found it. They also
said they were looking at the state of their clothing because they could not
qualify for anything they already owned. The author said it didn't matter
if the item was worn out or two small. But I digress.

On to another book where it said that perhaps due to ignorance, people still
continued to consume/use things of no nutritional value. In this country it
was tobacco and coffee. In Great Britain it was tea. And in France? Wine.
They said they saw this time and time again. If the people only had a small
amount of money, they would make sure to buy these things and not buy food.
They surmised perhaps this was because times were so grim, the people
thought they would just try to enjoy themselves anyway. Another thing they
spent their money on was going to the movies. That was actually mentioned
in the book written by the man with his life story. He said he was forced
to do something he didn't want to by his mom (can't remember now what that
was) and she rewarded him with a trip to the movies. And yet there was no
food in the house.

In this country, various churches gave out food. Although he said at times
it wasn't much. Athough they were not a religous family, they each took on
a religion and went to the church or synagogue to prove that they were in
fact that religion. It also forced his mom to modify her name to try to
prove that she was Jewish. She said it had been something else some years
ago but shortened. They believed her and said that happened to a lot of
Jewish people when they first came to this country. Very sad story. He
said they often had to eat sandwiches made of stale bread and old mashed
bananas. Or stale Hostess cupcakes that his mom for for free. She would
slice them up and serve them for dinner. This led me to believe that there
wasn't even enough for each person to have a whole one.

Very interesting read! Kind of bears out what I had read elsewhere. We had
a boy in our Jr. High who was very tiny. And yet he wasn't a "little"
person. His older brother was normal size. The tiny boy was in Pre-Voc
which was what we called special ed in those days. Someone asked one of the
teachers why this boy was so small? She said that his mother had been an
alcoholic and it affected his development. It also affected his brain.
Apparently she wasn't an alcoholic with the older boy? Or less of one. Sad
story with those two. Something about an accident with a gun and the older
one accidentally killed his brother. We don't know what became of the older
one. He never came back to school after it happened.

[Ozgirl]

"Cheri" wrote in message news:kl54v...@news3.newsguy.com...

-----

OMG! Didn't notice that until you laughed, Cheri! :)

[Julie Bove]

"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:atn6g4...@mid.individual.net...

Me either.

[outsider]

Typo no. Darn nice Freudian though.

[anothas...@aol.com]

On 4/22/2013 6:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message
> news:kl4d80$v15$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 4/22/2013 4:10 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kl43v3$ok5$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 4/22/2013 12:48 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the
>>>>> past
>>>>> have brought about the diabetes that we have now?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This discussion belongs in a book club meeting. IMNSHO.
>>>
>>> No clue what IMNSHO means. But no, it does not. I didn't mention the
>>> names
>>> of the books and this really has nothing to do with that. I never took a
>>> history class. I would presume that people would have learned this stuff
>>> if
>>> they did.
>>>
>>>
>> IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion
>>
>> You never took a history class? Really?? Didn't you go to high school?
>
> *sigh* Yes. I went to high school. There was one history class offered
> but I wasn't in it. I did try. But just because we chose some class didn't
> mean that we got into it. Instead I learned all about alcohol, drug abuse,
> various psychological things, religion. Nothing about history or geography.

THAT *is* pathetic, but no atypical in the US.
Weren't your folks involved in your education?

[anothas...@aol.com]

Incredible...

[anothas...@aol.com]

That's one of the things I love about usenet:
Just when you think it can't get more idiotic....

[Maya Zuiderweg]

GysdeJongh beweerde :

In Amsterdam exactly the same. I was born 7-7-1946 (Amsterdam), my
parents had the good fortune to have my mothers parents living in
Groningen, in the countryside, on a farm. They (my grandparents) sent
food-packages, and (if they arrived!) thats what my parents lived on
(and indirectly me too). My grandparents on fathers side were also
living in Groningen, but had no farm.
Besides they were quite dead at the end of the war. Not from hunger
though. I dont even know where they died from :/

[Don Roberto]

:-)

[Don Roberto]

On 4/23/2013 5:05 PM, Marina wrote:
> BessieBee <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in

> news:kl43v3$ok5$1...@dont-email.me:

>
>> On 4/22/2013 12:48 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>

>>> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the
>>> past have brought about the diabetes that we have now?
>>>
>>>

>> This discussion belongs in a book club meeting. IMNSHO.
>>
>

> She's discussing the topic, not a book.


You are not intelligent enough to judge that.

If you don't like it then...move
> on!!
>

[Julie Bove]

"Marina" <m...@dontspam.com> wrote in message
news:517721c4$0$47060$c3e8da3$9b4f...@news.astraweb.com...

> BessieBee <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in
> news:kl43v3$ok5$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 4/22/2013 12:48 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>
>>> So does anyone have any thoughts on this? Could what happened in the
>>> past have brought about the diabetes that we have now?
>>>
>>>
>> This discussion belongs in a book club meeting. IMNSHO.
>>
>

> She's discussing the topic, not a book. If you don't like it then...move
> on!!

Yes. I only got the idea from the books I was reading. And then last night
I also saw a show on TV and FDR so a lot of these same issues were
addressed.

I just finished another book. The people only had flour and water in the
house. The mother was not producing enough milk because of the lack of food
so they put flour and water in the baby bottle. Sadly the baby died.
Another story in the book was of a girl in the Appalachians who looked
sickly. The teacher told her to go home to eat something. She said that
she could not because it was her sister's day to eat. These sorts of things
would have to affect us now, I would think. Even if it was our parents or
grandparents who suffered through this. And if we were the ones, then
surely our children and perhaps grandchildren would be affected.

[Opple0pad]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:54:48 -0700, "Julie Bove"

Any teacher who talked about such things would have been dismissed
when the students told their parents and the parents went to the
school board. Julie was not the only one in the class, nor was the
teacher there for only 1 year and yet no student told their parents?

BS

[Opple0pad]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 21:22:23 -0700, "Julie Bove"
<juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

>
>"Budd Cochran" <mr_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:igndt.1078$JF5...@newsfe07.iad...
>> Don't waste your time, Julie, the net nannies are blooming this spring ...
>> again.
>
>Yeah. I already FKed a bunch of them.

Wow, talked about making shit up!

>>
>> I moved a lot as a child from Colorado to Indiana and back with a side
>> trip to California.
>>
>> I agree with you that each state has their own requirements and, when it
>> comes to credits for courses taken, some school systems can't do simple
>> math:
>>
>> Colorado gave half as many credits for the same course as Indiana and
>> Indiana couldn't figure out that I had passed the courses in Colorado ...
>> I had to take some over again my Sophmore year.
>
>The reason I had so many was that I hated the two free periods that most
>students took. I am one of those people who reads fast, takes tests fast,
>etc. And I almost always got good grades. So I had no need for the free
>periods. We rarely had any homework in high school and if it was assigned,
>I could almost always get it done in class. I worked in the office, I
>worked Switchboard. I was on the school newspaper and I was a teacher's
>assistant. I had to get special permission to do this and had I had my way
>I would have done something for *both* of those periods but they would only
>allow me to do this for one of them. So that's how I got all of those extra
>credits.

And yet in another thread you said you hated school.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman
( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Ken simply because we really love
him as our LORD loves and commands (John 15:12-3) with all glory to
GOD the Father:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/42797e450fd691c1?

Don't be an Ayoob:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e66adf59151b12b6?

[Ken]

`

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Trawley Trash]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:29:46 -0500
Opple0pad <Op...@Opple.com> wrote:

> >> I'm not snipping any of this part because it pretty much proves
> >> that Julie is out of her mind.
> >
> >Really? Because it was the 1970's and I had oddball teachers, *I*
> >am out of my mind. Uh huh. Whatever.
>
>
> Any teacher who talked about such things would have been dismissed
> when the students told their parents and the parents went to the
> school board. Julie was not the only one in the class, nor was the
> teacher there for only 1 year and yet no student told their parents?

In my district "social studies" meant a combination of history and
civics. The history was all wrong, and some of the teachers let
us know they didn't believe it. We heard the same myths over and
over again. Sometimes it was George Washington who cut down the
cherry tree, and sometimes it was Abraham Lincoln. Right after
the JFK assassination they shook up the curriculum. A new course
with a new teacher was added. We memorized cold war propaganda:
the domino theory, the virtues of invading Cuba and so on. He
was also big on illegal drugs telling us how easy it was to
become a millionaire in America.

Plenty of people found this weird, but they were afraid to speak
up. There was retaliation if they did.

As to the depression, my communist grandmother loved it. She was
nympho, and she took her pick from starving men. It was just a
big party. She did lines with Eleanor Roosevelt in the White
House. When my grandmother ran out of money and drugs, she
became an unperson. *Her* depression began the day Eleanor
Roosevelt died.

[Julie Bove]

"Trawley Trash" <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:qcts4a-...@jammer.gnet...

> On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:29:46 -0500
> Opple0pad <Op...@Opple.com> wrote:
>
>> >> I'm not snipping any of this part because it pretty much proves
>> >> that Julie is out of her mind.
>> >
>> >Really? Because it was the 1970's and I had oddball teachers, *I*
>> >am out of my mind. Uh huh. Whatever.
>>
>>
>> Any teacher who talked about such things would have been dismissed
>> when the students told their parents and the parents went to the
>> school board. Julie was not the only one in the class, nor was the
>> teacher there for only 1 year and yet no student told their parents?

I don't recall if I told my parents or not. Most likely if I did, they
would have laughed and said that I misunderstood. Remember, this was high
school. High school kids don't tell their parents very much. At least I
didn't. And it was the 1970's! Lots of stuff went on that would never
happen now.

>
> In my district "social studies" meant a combination of history and
> civics. The history was all wrong, and some of the teachers let
> us know they didn't believe it. We heard the same myths over and
> over again. Sometimes it was George Washington who cut down the
> cherry tree, and sometimes it was Abraham Lincoln. Right after
> the JFK assassination they shook up the curriculum. A new course
> with a new teacher was added. We memorized cold war propaganda:
> the domino theory, the virtues of invading Cuba and so on. He
> was also big on illegal drugs telling us how easy it was to
> become a millionaire in America.
>

I don't even have a clue what the word "civics" means. My mom worked for
our school district. She said that my years in school were experimental
ones for our school district. My brother is a few years younger than me so
didn't learn exactly what I did but a lot of it was the same. I do know
that I have read that history books are often wrong. And there was
something wrong in one of Angela's books. I don't remember what that was
now or even the era of it. But I did look on the Internet about it. I just
told her to know that it was wrong and to put down on the test what was in
the book.

> Plenty of people found this weird, but they were afraid to speak
> up. There was retaliation if they did.

Could be.

>
> As to the depression, my communist grandmother loved it. She was
> nympho, and she took her pick from starving men. It was just a
> big party. She did lines with Eleanor Roosevelt in the White
> House. When my grandmother ran out of money and drugs, she
> became an unperson. *Her* depression began the day Eleanor
> Roosevelt died.

Okay...

[outsider]

On 4/28/2013 6:06 AM, Julie Bove wrote:

> I don't even have a clue what the word "civics" means.

And yet you have a working computer and the whole internet
to be able to look it up. In the same posting you claim you
looked up some history "fact" in one of your daughter's books
and told her it was wrong.

You make disingenuous postings all over the place, and lots
of them. Do you think it is good for a newsgroup to be filled
with shit just for the sake of your posting? I grew up
instilled with the concept that quantity lacking quality
was empty.

[Colt T]

If your dad was in his 70's during the Great Depression you must be
pretty darn old now.

[Opple0pad]

Exactly how long have you refused to take your medication?

[Julie Bove]

"Colt T" <Col...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18647-51...@bsg-storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net...

> If your dad was in his 70's during the Great Depression you must be
> pretty darn old now.

Hey! My dad is in his 80's!

[BessieBee]

Hey! If my dad was still alive he'd be 92 years old. That means that
during the depression he was a young boy.

Math really isn't your strong point, is it?

--
BessieBee

"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going,
because you might not get there." Peter �Yogi� Berra

[Opple0pad]

Talk about a statement that has nothing to do with the thread.

[Julie Bove]

"BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message

news:klka16$dv9$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/28/2013 5:02 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Colt T" <Col...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:18647-51...@bsg-storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net...
>>> If your dad was in his 70's during the Great Depression you must be
>>> pretty darn old now.
>>
>> Hey! My dad is in his 80's!
>>
>>
> Hey! If my dad was still alive he'd be 92 years old. That means that
> during the depression he was a young boy.
>
> Math really isn't your strong point, is it?

I have said repeatedly that it isn't. I also was talking of parents *and*
grandparents. Reading comprehension really isn't *your* strong point. Is
it?

[Opple0pad]

Watch how the story changes yet again.

[W. Baker]

Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

: "Colt T" <Col...@webtv.net> wrote in message

He is in his 80's now. In the 1930's he was a youngster, not in his 70's
. The 1930's are more than 80 years ago.

Wendy

[Maya Zuiderweg]

W. Baker plaatste dit op zijn scherm :

Wendy, I got from her story that her dad was 8 then..
M.

[W. Baker]

Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

: "BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message

Yes, you were talking about parents and someone said that in the
depression HIS or HERS's father was in his 70's, so how old would that
person be today unless hir mother was some 50 years younger than hir
father so s/he was born to a VERY old father, which was quite unusual.

Not a reading comprehension issue at all.

Wendy

[Julie Bove]

"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote in
message news:4f6dnTt0KbF0XODM...@giganews.com...

He was 8 when his dad died. I think the Depression was past then but things
may still have been rationed. I don't know.

[Julie Bove]

"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message

news:klkflh$967$2...@reader1.panix.com...

Uh no. You are mixing things up. I mentioned parents and grandparents who
were living during the depression. I mentioned the vague age of my dad. I
believe I said that his dad died when he was 8 and that he had to get a job
then. I'm not even sure what you said above. And if someone else said
that, it wasn't me and that person is likely in my killfile.

> Not a reading comprehension issue at all.

My response wasn't to you.

[BessieBee]

On 4/28/2013 8:09 PM, Julie Bove wrote:

> Uh no. You are mixing things up. I mentioned parents and grandparents who
> were living during the depression. I mentioned the vague age of my dad. I
> believe I said that his dad died when he was 8 and that he had to get a job
> then. I'm not even sure what you said above. And if someone else said
> that, it wasn't me and that person is likely in my killfile.

You're making me dizzy.

[outsider]

On 4/28/2013 8:43 PM, BessieBee wrote:
> On 4/28/2013 8:09 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> Uh no. You are mixing things up. I mentioned parents and
>> grandparents who
>> were living during the depression. I mentioned the vague age of my
>> dad. I
>> believe I said that his dad died when he was 8 and that he had to get
>> a job
>> then. I'm not even sure what you said above. And if someone else said
>> that, it wasn't me and that person is likely in my killfile.
>
> You're making me dizzy.

I hope you're not seriously considering her replies.

[Karen]

And isn't that the crux of the matter: You don't know.
--
Kaye

http://theconversation.edu.au/alternative-medicine-can-be-scientific-say-besieged-academics-5058
"Ian, when a person says "up to 90%" it can be anywhere ranging from 1 to 90."
Carole Hubbard

[Julie Bove]

"Karen" <kquilts+no...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5evrn89i02tjf25k9...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 18:07:00 -0700, in alt.support.diabetes, "Julie
> Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote
>>in
>>message news:4f6dnTt0KbF0XODM...@giganews.com...
>>> W. Baker plaatste dit op zijn scherm :
>>>> Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Colt T" <Col...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:18647-51...@bsg-storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net...
>>>>>> If your dad was in his 70's during the Great Depression you must be
>>>>>> pretty darn old now.
>>>>
>>>>> Hey! My dad is in his 80's!
>>>>
>>>> He is in his 80's now. In the 1930's he was a youngster, not in his
>>>> 70's
>>>> . The 1930's are more than 80 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Wendy
>>>
>>> Wendy, I got from her story that her dad was 8 then..
>>> M.
>>
>>He was 8 when his dad died. I think the Depression was past then but
>>things
>>may still have been rationed. I don't know.
>>
>
> And isn't that the crux of the matter: You don't know.

Uh... Wha? I don't think that really matters. What does matter is that
during the Depression, most people were not eating an ideal diet. And of
those that weren't, probably a great many were very malnourished. That has
got to affect future generations.

[outsider]

You believe that malnourishment permanently damages the dna in ways that
gets passed down? Twin studies disprove that theory.

[Don Roberto]

The problem with crazy people is they don't know they are crazy.

[Don Roberto]

On 4/28/2013 4:09 PM, BessieBee wrote:
> On 4/28/2013 5:02 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Colt T" <Col...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:18647-51...@bsg-storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net...
>>> If your dad was in his 70's during the Great Depression you must be
>>> pretty darn old now.
>>
>> Hey! My dad is in his 80's!
>>
>>
> Hey! If my dad was still alive he'd be 92 years old. That means that
> during the depression he was a young boy.
>
> Math really isn't your strong point, is it?
>

Should read: Math really isn't your strong point either, is it?

[Don Roberto]

Thank God there is a teacher in the house.

[W. Baker]

Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

: "Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote in

When you Dad was 8 and s now in his 80's , it may have been during the
early yers of WWIIwhen things were rationed like meat, sugar, shoes, gas,
etc. I am 77 and ws 9 when the War ended.

Wendy

[Julie Bove]

"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message

news:kllqtl$b8r$1...@reader1.panix.com...

[Julie Bove]

"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:kllqtl$b8r$1...@reader1.panix.com...

Okay...

[Trawley Trash]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 05:12:02 -0500
outsider <outs...@sometime.individual.net> wrote:

> You believe that malnourishment permanently damages the dna in ways
> that gets passed down? Twin studies disprove that theory.

Malnutrition can permanently affect the brain and the way you
raise your children.

[Trawley Trash]

You really shouldn't read Julie's posts if they make you
angry.

[Trawley Trash]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 15:35:25 -0500
Opple0pad <Op...@Opple.com> wrote:

> Exactly how long have you refused to take your medication?

Ever since my FBGs fell back into the 90s.

When was the last time you were sober?

[BessieBee]

Nothing to consider. Just trying to read this one without falling out
of my chair.

[Julie Bove]

"Trawley Trash" <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:6po25a-...@jammer.gnet...

He is in my KF. Since I am 53 now and never needed the word "civics" I
guess I won't be needing it now.

[outsider]

Ho hum....just more evidence of quantity without any quality, beginning
with the trashtalk.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

... and encouraging born-again (John 3:3 & 5) friends like Rod Eastman
( http://WDJW.net ) to also pray for Ken simply because we really love
him as our LORD loves and commands (John 15:12-3) with all glory to
GOD the Father:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/42797e450fd691c1?

Don't be an Ayoob:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e66adf59151b12b6?

[Trawley Trash]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:03:42 -0700
"Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

> He is in my KF. Since I am 53 now and never needed the word "civics"
> I guess I won't be needing it now.

Another name for "civics" is "government". We learned how the
government is supposed to function. It doesn't always work that way,
but that part of the social studies curriculum was good
if somewhat naive. History was generally poor and international
coverage was miserable.

[Julie Bove]

"Trawley Trash" <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:9ht45a-...@jammer.gnet...

We did touch on government briefly in elementary school and then in 8th or
9th grade. But it was very brief. Both years were election years.

[W. Baker]

Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:

: "Trawley Trash" <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

Did you ever learn "How a bill becomes a law? About Separation of Powers
in the Federal Government? What a Federal system means. What is the
difference between the US Senate and the U>S> House of Representatives?
Why does the House of Representatives have so many more peole in it than
the Senate? What does te Central government do? What do the States do?

All of these things are part of civics or government, much of whihc is
learned in elementary adn Jr. High School, and again when , in American
History , the Constitution is studied. At least that is how it ws when I
learned and taught social Studies .

Wendy

[Don Roberto]

You really shouldn't post if you don't have anything relevant to say.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Don Roberto]

The good old days :-)

[Don Roberto]

On 4/30/2013 6:28 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:03:42 -0700
> "Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
>> He is in my KF. Since I am 53 now and never needed the word "civics"
>> I guess I won't be needing it now.
>
> Another name for "civics" is "government". We

Who's "we"?

[Don Roberto]

Well, lucky you!
I hope you have been making use of your informed vote in every election
since.

[Trawley Trash]

On Wed, 01 May 2013 05:16:25 -0700
Don Roberto <anothas...@aol.com> wrote:

> Who's "we"?

Those of us who took social studies learned...

[Trawley Trash]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:28:01 +0000 (UTC)
"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:

> Julie Bove <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>
> : "Trawley Trash" <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> : news:9ht45a-...@jammer.gnet...
> : > On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:03:42 -0700
> : > "Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
> : >
> : >> He is in my KF. Since I am 53 now and never needed the word
> "civics" : >> I guess I won't be needing it now.
> : >
> : > Another name for "civics" is "government". We learned how the
> : > government is supposed to function. It doesn't always work that
> way, : > but that part of the social studies curriculum was good
> : > if somewhat naive. History was generally poor and international
> : > coverage was miserable.
>
> : We did touch on government briefly in elementary school and then in
> 8th or : 9th grade. But it was very brief. Both years were election
> years. Did you ever learn "How a bill becomes a law? About
> Separation of Powers in the Federal Government? What a Federal
> system means. What is the difference between the US Senate and the
> U>S> House of Representatives? Why does the House of Representatives

> U>S> have so many more peole in it than

> the Senate? What does te Central government do? What do the States
> do?
>
> All of these things are part of civics or government, much of whihc
> is learned in elementary adn Jr. High School, and again when , in
> American History , the Constitution is studied. At least that is how
> it ws when I learned and taught social Studies .
>
> Wendy
>

Exactly that.

[Trawley Trash]

They were terrible.

[outsider]

Ya gotta be kidding. Election day is always inconvenient as has every
polling location been inconvenient for Julie ever since she came of
voting age.

In fact, if Julie were *the* model for female humans, the nineteenth
amendment would never have been enacted. She is, instead, the model
that helps men and women appreciate sane/good women by offering a
comparison of what might have been.

[seediq]

Can't help yourself can you? You try so hard to keep all that anger
inside and then it just starts leaking. Your quality of life has been
seriously degraded by storing and then spreading that anger around.

It also looks like you have become a Julie stalker. Your obsession with
her is a bit strange but when thought about makes sense. You need
someone to attack. It is simply part of your life style. The good news
for everyone else here is that you still have Julie. If she leaves the
newsgroup you will need to pick another.

Your anger at women in general is easy enough to figure out. No woman
would have you and you are pissed about it.

[BessieBee]

On 5/1/2013 9:49 AM, outsider wrote:

>>> We did touch on government briefly in elementary school and then in
>>> 8th or
>>> 9th grade. But it was very brief. Both years were election years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, lucky you!
>> I hope you have been making use of your informed vote in every election
>> since.
>
> Ya gotta be kidding. Election day is always inconvenient as has every
> polling location been inconvenient for Julie ever since she came of
> voting age.

Besides, I believe we've been told quite a few times that Julie "doesn't
do politics."

[GysdeJongh]

Don Roberto wrote:

> Who's "we"?

wasn't me

[GysdeJongh]

and social astrology

[Don Roberto]

Just like all the days that followed them. Right?
Not to mention the days to come.

[Don Roberto]

That *is* horrible. Thank heavens you are not the type to stalk someone
and be obsessed with someone as your many varied posts show.

[Don Roberto]

On 5/1/2013 7:49 AM, outsider wrote:
> On 5/1/2013 7:16 AM, Don Roberto wrote:
>> On 4/30/2013 7:09 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "Trawley Trash" <tr...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:9ht45a-...@jammer.gnet...
>>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:03:42 -0700
>>>> "Julie Bove" <juli...@frontier.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He is in my KF. Since I am 53 now and never needed the word "civics"
>>>>> I guess I won't be needing it now.
>>>>
>>>> Another name for "civics" is "government". We learned how the
>>>> government is supposed to function. It doesn't always work that way,
>>>> but that part of the social studies curriculum was good
>>>> if somewhat naive. History was generally poor and international
>>>> coverage was miserable.
>>>
>>> We did touch on government briefly in elementary school and then in
>>> 8th or
>>> 9th grade. But it was very brief. Both years were election years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, lucky you!
>> I hope you have been making use of your informed vote in every election
>> since.
>
> Ya gotta be kidding. Election day is always inconvenient as has every
> polling location been inconvenient for Julie ever since she came of
> voting age.
>

"They" DO make having your vote count very difficult, don't they?

[Don Roberto]

On 5/1/2013 2:03 PM, BessieBee wrote:
> On 5/1/2013 9:49 AM, outsider wrote:
>
>>>> We did touch on government briefly in elementary school and then in
>>>> 8th or
>>>> 9th grade. But it was very brief. Both years were election years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, lucky you!
>>> I hope you have been making use of your informed vote in every election
>>> since.
>>
>> Ya gotta be kidding. Election day is always inconvenient as has every
>> polling location been inconvenient for Julie ever since she came of
>> voting age.
>
> Besides, I believe we've been told quite a few times that Julie "doesn't
> do politics."
>

Yep. But that doesn't mean she can't yak about not doing politics when
someone else is yakking about doing politics.

[Don Roberto]

No need to worry.
Downside-up "w"s like "m"s are all about the rest of them/us.

[Don Roberto]

Yep. There are way too many "disciplines" like that in the good old US of A.
I believe there is only one national radio talk show that runs for 6
hours, day in, day out:
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

[Julie Bove]

"BessieBee" <Bess...@DreadfulBitch.com> wrote in message
news:klrvoq$20l$2...@dont-email.me...

> On 5/1/2013 9:49 AM, outsider wrote:
>
>>>> We did touch on government briefly in elementary school and then in
>>>> 8th or
>>>> 9th grade. But it was very brief. Both years were election years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, lucky you!
>>> I hope you have been making use of your informed vote in every election
>>> since.
>>
>> Ya gotta be kidding. Election day is always inconvenient as has every
>> polling location been inconvenient for Julie ever since she came of
>> voting age.
>
> Besides, I believe we've been told quite a few times that Julie "doesn't
> do politics."

Voting is by mail here. I generally dislike the Republicans and Democrats
so it doesn't really matter who I vote for. In most cases they won't win.

[Julie Bove]

"GysdeJongh" <JonghSevenHundredElevenAtPlanet.nl> wrote in message
news:518190da$0$29188$862e...@ngroups.net...

I have studied Astrology but not in school.

[outsider]

There is a school of thought that states it is a good thing to be
important to *someone*.

[outsider]

Do you remember to put a stamp on the mailing?

[Don Roberto]

In most cases the ones you vote for don't win?
Well, it *does* make sense.