Muscle cramps

[Gordon]

What vitamin/mineral imbalances are usually associated with muscle
cramps? I have regular, frequent leg cramps at night and I have hand
and lower arm cramps during the day if I do any strenuous work such as
trimming a hedge.

I am a 79 year old white male who has been in very robust health most
of my life. In 2009 I was diagnosed as being at risk of developing T2
diabetes. By managing my diet (very low carbs) and exercising
prudently I have kept my BG readings well within the healthy normal
range but I do have to be careful or I will sometimes see a
postprandial BG reading in the 200 mg/dL range. Usually I'm well below
140 mg/dL for my postprandial readings and around 100 - 105 for my
early morning fasting reading, unless I take this reading before the
dawn effect kicks in. If I take this reading early enough I'm usually
down in the lower 90s or upper 80s range.

Last February my dermatologist found a melanoma on my top rear scalp
area and when explored a bit further he found that it has
metastasized. I had extensive surgery to remove 13 lymph glands around
my left ear and below my left jaw. Two of these lymph glands tested
positive for metastasized melanoma. I'm now going through a 7 weeks, 5
days per week process of radiation oncology for this area and seem to
be coping reasonably well.

But, I've had a drastic uptick in my nocturnal leg cramps and now I'm
being hit with the same problem in my hands and lower arms if I do
anything like use hand clippers for a lot of hedge trimming or any
other such vigorous hand/arm work. I also have leg cramps if I mow the
lawn with a walk-behind push mower.

Any suggestions as to what vitamin or mineral supplements might be
beneficial? I'm thinking my pre-diabetes condition may be causing my
kidneys to deplete some critical vitamins and minerals from my blood
and this may be the cause of these muscle cramps. I don't know if the
radiation oncology process is contributing to these muscle spasms or
not.

Thanks for any suggestions. Gordon

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Gordon was zeer hard aan het denken :

Since potassium already has been suggested, I have a question. You
being (a potential) type 2 diabetes, did you take any statin?
M.

[Julie Bove]

"Gordon" <gord...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:ul3qp8dpvhlsm4fkf...@4ax.com...

Looks to me like you are putting two and two together and getting five. Leg
cramps can come from a lack of vitamins and minerals but there are plenty of
other causes. It's easy to see if you lack something. Go here:

http://cronometer.com/

Get a free account. Put in all of your foods and drinks. It will show you
if there is something lacking in your diet. But there is more too it than
that. If your body doesn't metabolize things properly, you could still be
deficient. Or you could be taking a med that causes you not to metabolize
things well. For that all that is needed is a simple blood test by your Dr.
to see if you are deficient. Far better to go this route than to just
blindly add supplements, particularly when doing this could make other
things out of whack. For instance... Lack of potassium can cause cramps.
But it is unsafe to take supplements unless you need them because your
magnesium needs to be balanced. I was tested and found to be low in
potassium and the Dr. said that was rare unless the magnesium was low too.
Mine wasn't. Zinc also factors in with those two things.

Could be that you have some other medical problem like venous insufficiency
or intermittent claudication. Mention the cramps to the Dr. You need to
sort out the cause.

[Julie Bove]

"Maya Zuiderweg" <$no_spam#ma_dot_zuiderweg_@_me_dot_com#maps_on$> wrote in
message news:Od-dnaMyC9WxrwDM...@giganews.com...

> Since potassium already has been suggested, I have a question. You being
> (a potential) type 2 diabetes, did you take any statin?
> M.

Oh! That too! I meant to mention this but forgot. Other meds can cause
cramps too. My friend was on one such for her heart. She mentioned the
cramps to me and I immediately looked up all of her meds. Can't remember
the name of this one because she only took it for a few days. She mentioned
the cramps to her Dr. and pharmacist and she was put on another med. The
cramps went right away.

I love this website:

http://www.askapatient.com/

It's real people talking about the meds that they use. They will report any
and all problems that they have with the meds. And not all of what they
report is a side effect mentioned in the prescribing information. Like hair
loss and dry skin with statins. Just put in the name of your med and see
what others are saying about it.

[mainframetech]

On May 22, 5:01 pm, Maya Zuiderweg <

Yes, this is a first thing to check. Do you take a statin? I
believe they do nothing for you, but if you are dying to use them
(yes, pun intended), see if you can stop them for 2-3 months and see
if the symptoms go away. Many doctors will say it's not the statin,
but they're not as knowing about the many side effects. Doctor's
think in terms of percentages. This patient is only one of 300 and
the percentages are small that they will die from this drug. The
patient thinks this drug could kill me, Is the chance worth it?

Chris

[oldb...@pookmail.com]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:45:30 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:

> What vitamin/mineral imbalances are usually associated with muscle
> cramps? I have regular, frequent leg cramps at night and I have hand
> and lower arm cramps during the day if I do any strenuous work such as
> trimming a hedge.

Try drinking tonic water. It contains quinine and will help stop the cramps.

[Harold Groot]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:45:30 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>What vitamin/mineral imbalances are usually associated with muscle
>cramps? I have regular, frequent leg cramps at night and I have hand
>and lower arm cramps during the day if I do any strenuous work such as
>trimming a hedge.

<snip>

>Any suggestions as to what vitamin or mineral supplements might be
>beneficial? I'm thinking my pre-diabetes condition may be causing my
>kidneys to deplete some critical vitamins and minerals from my blood
>and this may be the cause of these muscle cramps. I don't know if the
>radiation oncology process is contributing to these muscle spasms or
>not.

All four of the electrolytes need to be in reasonable balance. That's
Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium. That's where I'd start.

Now, MOST people already get plenty of sodium. Way too much, in fact.
So unless you have been on an ultra-low sodium diet, I wouldn't worry
about getting enough of this one.

The remaining three tend to vary quite a bit from person to person.
For MYSELF, the key to getting rid of leg cramps at night (when they
started to happen to me) was to add magnesium. But note that I was
ALREADY using a potassium booster (NO SALT, which is straight
potassium chloride instead of the normal sodium chloride in table
salt) and I like dairy products, so I was ALREADY getting enough
calcium. The really nice thing is that if this IS the problem, relief
can come very quickly. For many people it's the first or second night
- though your problem sounds worse than most. You'd want to get a
variety of magnesium that is well aborbed, though. The cheapest and by
far the most common variety on store shelves is magnesium oxide - but
that is very poorly absorbed by the body. Magnesium Orotate, Magnesium
Acsorbate and a few others make better choices. Or, of course, eat a
healthy diet that is higher in magnesium than you're doing now.

From what OTHER people have posted here over the years, though, it
would seem that more people were helped by getting more CALCIUM in
their diet than were helped by boosting the other electrolytes. It's
certainly worth a try.

Now, calcium tends to make people constipated. Magnesium, on the
other hand, tends to go the other way. They are often combined in a
single pill where those effects mostly cancel each other out. But many
of those combination pills use Magnesium Oxide, so getting separate
pills may be worthwhile to get a better absorption of the magnesium.

Cutting down on sodium and boosting potassium by using NO SALT (or
SALT SUBSTITUTE) is worth exploring, as is adding the Ca/Mg
supplements. They are cheap and work quite fast for most people -
though since your reported symptoms are more severe, you might need a
week or even two for relief IF this is the cause. There are several
other possibilities - but this is so cheap, easy and quick that it's a
very good place to start on your own. If this helps, again, you can
stick with the supplements or look for dietary changes to get more
potassium in your food (it's very well tolerated in food, and as "salt
on food" it comes pretty close and isn't regulated by dose). But many
of the sources I can think of at the moment are high is sugars or
starches (bananas, oranges, potatos) - but I'm sure that there are
other choices that are also good, and more suitable for a prediabetic
person.

Some people find that they don't care much for SALT SUBSTITUTE,
complaining about a metallic taste to things. I did not get any
metallic taste, though the mouthfeel seemed a bit "warmer" to me.
There is also "LITE SALT, a 50/50 mix of the two types. IF you don't
care for the straight SALT SUBSTITUTE, you could try that. Don't
bother with OTC (Over The Counter) potassium pills. By law (in the
USA, anyway) they are limited to 100 mg of elemental potassium. You'd
need to take 40+ pills per day to reach the recommended daily amount
(there's some dispute as to the exact amount a person needs). Even
ones with bigger numbers on the label (for example, "Potassium
Carbonate - 650 mg") still have only 100 mg or less of potassium - the
rest is in the rest of the compound, 550 mg of Carbonate in this case.

Doctor's can run blood tests for electrolye levels, and you should
definitely discuss these things with him. After all, electrolyte
imbalance is only one possible cause of cramps. (It may be a very
COMMON cause, but it's far from being the ONLY cause.) But it's one
where home experimentation is a reasonable start. If it's your
medications causing the cramps, or something else entirely, you'll
really need your doctors help in trying substitutes. And if you are
worried about your kidneys, the doctor can also set you up for tests
to check on that. Hard numbers make decisions SO much easier. In
GENERAL the blood sugar levels from prediabetes will take a long time
to damage the kidneys - but for SOME people it will happen sooner.
There are also many OTHER possible causes of CKD (Chronic Kidney
Disease), and early detection means a MUCH easier time of things.
(Dietary changes can be VERY helpful when it's caught early.)
Sometimes there are no symptoms until things are far too late. They
look at putting you on dialysis when you are down to 20% kidney
function. My mother had no symptoms until she was down to 9% kidney
function. It was far too late to do anything BUT go on dialysis. had
they caught the beginning of the CKD instead of the end, maybe that
could have been avoided. Getting checked out by lab tests is something
you should do.

[Julie Bove]

"Harold Groot" <que...@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:519dd692...@news.west.earthlink.net...

Another thing I thought about after I initially replied to him is that he
should have his thyroid checked. When my thyroid was out of whack, I had
cramps. At the worst they were not only in my legs and feet but my entire
body. At times I would loose control of my limbs because of it. I once
accidentally threw a sharp knife in the kitchen because my arm and hand just
had a mind of their own. Other times I would be unable to take a full pan
from the stove. Plus I had severe trouble standing for any length of time.
My muscles would lock right up if I stayed in any one position for long.
Cooking and food prep was horrible. For a time we pretty much lived off of
boxed mac and cheese, cheese and crackers, salads, raw fruit and veg, boiled
eggs, anything that I could prep when I was not having an immediate problem
and could tuck away for later or that required minimal cooking.

[Oldmilret]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 09:59:57 -0400, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes

>
>On 5/23/2013 5:41 AM, Harold Groot wrote:
>
>> From what OTHER people have posted here over the years, though, it
>> would seem that more people were helped by getting more CALCIUM in
>> their diet than were helped by boosting the other electrolytes. It's
>> certainly worth a try.
>

> From all I've ever seen, most people get more benefit from K than calcium.
>
>And calcium supplementation may raise heart attack risk significantly.
>Might be best to get it in dairy foods.
>
>Susan

22 May 2013
Women taking up to 1,000 mg calcium per day had lower mortality rates
But the study of 9,033 Canadians showed no statistical benefit in men
Prior research feared high-dose supplements increased heart disease
risk
Researchers unequivocally recommend calcium for women with low intakes

Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2329161/Live-longer-daily-dose-calcium-Women-supplement-22-lower-risk-early-death.html#ixzz2U8zxiQ1v
http://tinyurl.com/orj4o5p

February 28, 2013
A long-term study of Swedish women suggests that consuming more than
1400 mg of calcium per day increases one�s risk of dying, particularly
of cardiovascular disease. - See more at:
http://www.pharmacytimes.com/news/Calcium-Supplements-Can-Spell-Heart-Trouble-for-Women#sthash.wx66JWHL.dpuf
http://tinyurl.com/p2nnjt7

[Gordon]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:45:30 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

Thanks very much for all your responses. I've bought some Solaray
Potassium Asporotate capsules and started taking them as recommended.
I did not have any serious leg cramps during last night but I did have
a very brief, minimal cramping. It awakened me about 4:00 am and
lasted for just a few seconds then everything settled down.

I probably get all the calcium I need from dairy products, so I'll not
extend my diet supplement intake to this for a while. I'll wait and
see how the potassium works out.

Thanks again for all this in formation. Gordon

[Julie Bove]

Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes

>
> On 5/23/2013 5:08 PM, Gordon wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much for all your responses. I've bought some Solaray
>> Potassium Asporotate capsules and started taking them as recommended.
>> I did not have any serious leg cramps during last night but I did
>> have a very brief, minimal cramping. It awakened me about 4:00 am and
>> lasted for just a few seconds then everything settled down.
>

> That's crazy expensive. It takes a lot more than the 99mg limit on
> those.
> Gordon, get the Morton or other blended lite salt, sodium/potassium.
>
> Start with 1/4 tsp in water. Save a lot of money and get instant
> relief.

If he is really low, he can get a prescription for K Dur.

[outsider]

K Dur is too expensive.

[Harold Groot]

In the old days, yes. But they've reduced the amount of quinine in
tonic water by something like 90% compared to 50 years ago. You'd have
to drink gallons to get an effective dose.

Quinine used to be on the USA's list of drugs to treat muscle cramps,
but it was taken off the list in this country because of the
all-too-common side effects. Sure, you can still find such remedies on
the OTC shelves - but only in teeny tiny dosages.

This can be an avenue to try if everything else fails, but it's not
the place to start anymore.

[Julie Bove]

"Harold Groot" <que...@infionline.net> wrote in message

news:519ecfd4...@news.west.earthlink.net...

Yes. You used to be able to get leg cramp pills too. I think they had
quinine in them.