treadmill pulse rate target ???
Michael
target by the normal calculation is 220 minus my age times 80 percent.
This comes out for me to be 122.
I have a problem already with this exercise. At the beginning of this
two week exercise I would begin being out of breath and basically being
worked hard. Now I am up to a pulse rate of 130 and am not out of breath
or feeling like I am working hard.
I have a stent in my right coronary artery and take a beta blocker to
control blood pressure and angina. I am afraid to go any faster because
I feel nervous about the consequences of going beyond my recommended rate.
I stopped having angina a few years ago. I can trot up a couple of
flights of stairs and feel fine.
I certainly don't mind continuing my exercise the way it is. But I feel
like maybe it is not doing so much good now. It is a quandary.
At this point all I feel I can do is continue my exercise and keep my
pulse below 130.
Has anyone else run up against this problem? If so, what did you do?
Michael
Craig
"Michael" <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:IOs0n.14012$dl4....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
I recall a personal trainer some time ago relating a similar story that he
could get one of his trainees heart rates above a certain rate, regardless
of the amount of exertion, turns out the reason for him came down to taking
a beta blocker. Don't know. Might be worth looking at though.
Best wishes,
Craig
Kurt
Unbelievable. See a doctor for God's sake.
Kurt
Ozgirl
In one of Michael's first posts here he described his cardiac problems and
how he had decided to cut his beta blocker down. I can't recall one person
warning him of the dangers of cutting down a drug prescribed for a known
heart complaint. On the contrary, he was told how to reduce the beta blocker
safely! Jim Chinnis's experiences with getting off the beta blocker was
tossed around (in his absence) but Jim himself said that there had been a
nasty reaction that he hadn't shared with the group at the time. Bottom
line, Michael has some serious health problems on top of his diabetes or pre
diabetes, whatever. He shouldn't be asking for advice here when some of the
advice asked relates to his cardiac care and he shouldn't be offered any
advice. I found it very hard to believe that some would actually condone
(and help) his efforts to get off the beta blocker. Recommendations on this
carb, that carb or sharing one's experiences should be the limit of
interference from others.
bgl
(preferably a cardiologist) for advice on exercise, target heart rates,
etc. and perhaps a treadmill stress test, in light of his medical
history & medications. I think I may have mentioned the impact of beta
blockers on HR & thus on exercise targets -- that there *is* an impact &
you can't use those generalized internet HR calculators for such special
cases!
It doesn't seem to have penetrated, judging by later posts, so I gave up.
Apparently he doesn't want to ask a doctor about this, he just wants to
do what he wants to do & wants us to tell him it's ok & how to do it. I
can't believe anyone serious, even semi-serious, about taking care of
his health would take such risks.
bj
(backing out again)
Nick Cramer
Exercise pulse rate? I'll be 75 in May. (220-75)x.8=116. I get to 120 and
keep going, low and slow, 'til my legs give out.
For my high blood pressure, I take a calcium channel blocker, Diltiazem,
(despite having left ventricular hypertrophy) and an angiotensin receptor
blocker, Benicar. My BP is generally around 120/75.
For BG, I titrate my Thai herb based on FBG, which is usually between 85
and 110. Interference? QRN?
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
Ozgirl
Nope. Sharing. Showing a cardiac patient how to get off their beta blocker
would be interference and wrong.
Nick Cramer
> >>> Unbelievable. See a doctor for God's sake.
I'm in total agreement, Ozgirl. I don't consider sharing what I do and the
results thereof for me to be interference or wrong.
Kurt
Well said.
I'm actually hoping that "Michael" is just a character because he is
doing a lot of things that are very unhealthy. He needs to work with
an endo and a cardiologist to help him through his problems. There are
a couple of posters here who are stepping over the line of support and
recommendations and into the ring of medical advice. Not good.
Kurt
Michael
My wife suggested I just keep tread milling longer. She thought that
eventually my pulse rate may get a little slower and then my speed could
go up. I have only been exercising for a half an hour. Probably need to
go longer.
I sounds like that is what you are doing. I am 67. So, 220-67 * .8 = 122.8
It sounds like you have your BP under control. Mine has been a little
low. I have been dealing with orthostatic fainting. I have trained
myself to get up carefully. I think my cardiologist has me on a little
too much Coreg.
I take Coreg. I do want to continue my treadmill. It does make me feel
better and I know it is good for me. It makes me feel so much better
that it seems like a significant factor in my quality of life.
I also note that I feel no distress whatever while doing this. So far my
rate of walking is 2.6 mph at a 10 degree incline. I have my incline on
max because it reduces impact on my knees. I go for about a mile and a
quarter. This seems like a pretty modest rate to me. It also seems safe.
Michael
Julie Bove
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote in message
news:7qfldg...@mid.individual.net...
Damn straight!
Cheri
news:rv6dnXthMpwzP9_W...@giganews.com...
So did others, telling him not to cut the beta blockers without consulting
his doctor.
Cheri
Ozgirl
Neither do I. I say what I do re diabetes control, my doctor knows how I
live. He is happy enough for me to live like I do so I am happy.
Nick Cramer
Hi Michael,
My doctor and I have worked very closely together on all my meds, diet and
exercise. I had been taking enalapril (for about 30 years), which he had me
stop. I just walk around the block. I don't know how fast or how far. When
my legs start to give out, I head home and sit on the couch for a while.
Van Chocstraw
If you ain't sweating you ain't doing it right.
Peppermint Patootie
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote:
> Nope. Sharing. Showing a cardiac patient how to get off their beta blocker
> would be interference and wrong.
Well, thank goodness all the references were in terms of doing it under
his doctor's supervision.
You must have been reading some other newsgroup.
PP
Ozgirl
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Peppermint Patootie wrote:
>
>> Well, thank goodness all the references were in terms of doing it
>> under his doctor's supervision.
>>
>> You must have been reading some other newsgroup.
>>
>
>
> Susan
Not selective at all. For example here is your first answer. Not one word of
it saying to see a doctor or questioning why he would want to get off a
specific heart med for the sake of a reduced bg. Your only caution refers to
the time needed to "successfully" wean off the drug:
"Susan wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
> Michael wrote:
>> There is clearly a relationship between use of beta blockers and type 2.
> Yes, it's been published about for years in the scientific literture. I
> think we've discussed that here.
>> I have been on atenolol for 25 years.
>> Has the damage already been done and is now irreversible, or if I wean
>> myself off atenolol will my numbers improve.
> The other poster who was on it that long saw his numbers go down to low
> normal after weaning. But CAUTION is required, and patience. It took the
> better part of a year or more, and at the end, he had to dissolve it and
> make ice cubes with it to get the lowest doses because the pills were too
> small to cut enough.
>> My physician knows nothing about this relationship and does not want me
>> to wean myself off of atenolol and go to lisiniprol.
>> I would want to very carefully wean myself off of this beta blocker if I
>> thought the damage could be reversed. However, the first time I tried to
>> do this I clearly went too fast. I would like to try nice and slow if
>> possible, but there is no point to do this if the damage has already been
>> done.
>> I hope there is some knowledge out there about this.
> You should google up the posts of Jim Chinnis to this group last year or
> the year before and email him. He was on it as long as you, and
> successfully weaned completely, I believe. jchin...@alum.mit.edu
> Susan "
From Jim Chinnis:
" > I finally got off completely in October or so. My heart rate seemed
> overreactive to moderate exercise, but my doctor said I was normal, and I
> forgot about it.
>
> Then in late December, after a week of stress, I went into an
unstable heart
> rhythm at about 190 bpm (Susan doesn't know that yet). I was diagnosed at
> the hospital with atrial fibrillation. I had another episode in May. I
> finally prevailed on my new cardiologists to try atenolol. So far, so
good.
> I am on 37.5 mg. My bg is perfectly normal."fx
You also had a comeback for that news too.
"> Thanks, Michael, I was not up to date on Jim's experiment.
> I completely disagree with his belief that weight loss reverses bg. My
> experience, and that of truly obese folks who use low carb is that diet
> reverses high bg long before weight loss occurs.
> I also see why he went back on atenelol, but am puzzled as to why there's
> been no apparent follow up investigation to see what the cause of his
> fibrillation is, hormonally, since atenelol blocks hormone receptors? "
Completely disagree? My BP never drops until I am below a certain weight
despite low carb of any level. Your "experience" appears to be very limited.
How many truly obese people do you know personally that you also know their
current BP's?
Ozgirl
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Cheri wrote:
>
>> So did others, telling him not to cut the beta blockers without
>> consulting his doctor.
>>
>
> without slow tapering supervised by a doctor.
>
> Susan
He shouldn't have even been given tapering advice. He was on them for a
heart condition. His initial post shows he cut it down off his own bat and
his physician wanted him to stay on the higher dose and risk higher bg's.
The danger was reducing them at all, tapered or not. His orthotic episodes
only started after he lowered his carb significantly. Last I read from all
that he was waiting to see his cardiologist for advice, I can't remember
whether that came about or not. With Michael's circumstances the advice
given by some here was dangerous. He should have been given the flat out,
don't do a thing with your heart meds til you see the cardiologist type of
advice if anything..
Peppermint Patootie
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote:
Every reference to reducing his beta blocker that I saw was couched in
terms of doing it under his doctor's guidance.
PP
Cheri
He wasn't given tapering advice, in other words how to taper, he was warned
not to taper without doctor supervision.
Cheri
Kurt
In this case you were fortunate enough to find someone who quoted her
so she can't pretend that she never wrote it, or change history, as
she so often does. Recall is sometimes all people have when
remembering her crap advice because she covers her tracks with the no
archive feature for all her posts.
Kurt
Cheri
news:7qk2sm...@mid.individual.net...
> Some folks have the habit of confusing the uncomfortable feeling of an
> insect up their a$$es with something of wider importance. ;-)
>
> Susan
Truly, and some folks just have to find something to criticize in any post.
If I said the sky was blue today, I would probably be chastised for my
perceived bragging, because somewhere in the world people are weathering
devastating storms and I'm being insensitive, or some such nonsense. I think
your post to Bessie Bee said it all. People have to do their own homework
and make their own decisions. I assume that people in the newsgroups are not
idiots, mostly, and wouldn't just do something medically simply because
somebody posted their personal experience... without seeing how it relates
to them, if at all.
Cheri
Ozlover
> On Jan 5, 4:59?pm, "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_...@maccas.com> wrote:
> > Susan wrote:
> > > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > > Peppermint Patootie wrote:
> >
> > >> Well, thank goodness all the references were in terms of doing it
> > >> under his doctor's supervision.
> >
> > >> You must have been reading some other newsgroup.
> >
> > > Or practicing selective recall.
> >
> > > Susan
> >
> > Not selective at all. For example here is your first answer. Not one word of
> > it saying to see a doctor or questioning why he would want to get off a
> > specific heart med for the sake of a reduced bg. Your only caution refers to
> > the time needed to "successfully" wean off the drug:
[...]
> In this case you were fortunate enough to find someone who quoted her
> so she can't pretend that she never wrote it, or change history, as
> she so often does. Recall is sometimes all people have when
> remembering her crap advice because she covers her tracks with the no
> archive feature for all her posts.
The silly part is that *only* Google (Groups) honors the
"X-No-Archive: Yes" (XNAY) header/request.
So XNAY-ed posts are available on *all* other servers, *including*
hers!
And, while it takes more effort, XNAY-ed posts can be retrieved
(from non-Google sources) by Google Groups users.
Bottom line: XNAY-ing posts serves NO purpose at all, other than
showing that the poster is being a nuisance or/and clueless.
So her posts are on our News servers and on the web. Now she only has
to realize that what we have is exactly the same as what she has in her
Sent Items (or whatever Thunderbird calls it) folder. So "recall" -
selective or not - has absolutely *nothing* to do with it. Bummer, heh!?
--
Frank Slootweg
Cheri
news:7qk7c7...@mid.individual.net...
> Bottom line: XNAY-ing posts serves NO purpose at all, other than
> showing that the poster is being a nuisance or/and clueless.
So, why do you care? Or are you just looking for for a reason to attack a
poster? Is the sky blue where you are? I hope so.
Cheri
Chris Malcolm
> I started doing treadmill exercise a couple of weeks ago. My pulse rate
> target by the normal calculation is 220 minus my age times 80 percent.
> This comes out for me to be 122.
Which is a better target than nothing, but since it is an average only
really applies to you if you're average in the important respects. For
a better more personal target you need to enlist the help of a
cardiologist who can tell you what your limit ought to be. There are
DIY methods on the web, based on discovering your own max rate, but
that's too dangerous for someone with cardiac problems, or based on
estimating by looking at the graphs of performance approaching, less
dangerous, but still inadvisable for someone with cardiac problems.
For example I have a personal limit based on cardiographic readings
they saw when I was on a treadmill test in a cardiology unit. They saw
something they thought pretty alarming at a point when I felt
absolutely fine, just getting into a really good high exertion
stride. So it was clear, as was pointed out to me, that if I
relied on my heart feeling good as an indicator that a level of
exercise was ok then I could easily kill myself.
> I have a problem already with this exercise. At the beginning of this
> two week exercise I would begin being out of breath and basically being
> worked hard. Now I am up to a pulse rate of 130 and am not out of breath
> or feeling like I am working hard.
The problem is that with any muscle, including the heart, you have to
push it close to its maximum to make it stronger. Under the
strengthening level of exertion you can raise your repetition rate
hugely without increasing strength, only increasing endurance. So what
happens when you stick at a specific heart rate is that first you'll
strengthen the heart until it can handle it easily in terms of
strength, then after that you'll just keep increasing the endurance
without increasing the strength.
> I have a stent in my right coronary artery and take a beta blocker to
> control blood pressure and angina. I am afraid to go any faster because
> I feel nervous about the consequences of going beyond my recommended rate.
That sounds like a very useful and rational fear :-)
> I stopped having angina a few years ago. I can trot up a couple of
> flights of stairs and feel fine.
Me too, except in my case it was several years ago, and I can now trot
up a few hundred stairs and feel fine :-)
> I certainly don't mind continuing my exercise the way it is. But I feel
> like maybe it is not doing so much good now. It is a quandary.
> At this point all I feel I can do is continue my exercise and keep my
> pulse below 130.
And consult your doc or cardiologist about extending the length or
increasing the severity of the exertion.
> Has anyone else run up against this problem? If so, what did you do?
Consulted a cardiologist. Who was annoyed by my wasting his time
asking questions. But he wrote a detailed report to my doctor. So I
then consulted more than half the doctors in the practice over the
next several months by deliberately turning up at times when my own
doc wasn't there, and taking the opporunity to ask a by-the-way
question or two about the cardiologist's report.
I got two different interpretations of how much recovery (from a heart
attack) I could expect, split cleanly by the doctor's age. The older
ones said recovery was totally impossible. The younger ones said it
was rare but definitely possible.
I decided to take the side of youth and hope :-)
--
Chris Malcolm
Kurt
> If I said the sky was blue today, I would probably be chastised for my
> perceived bragging
Stop bragging! Besides, the truth of the matter is that the sky here
today is bluer than the sky where you live. You got that.
Kurt
Chris Malcolm
> Well said.
Like many of us here I fear he suffers a far more serious danger of
bad medical advice than from this newsgroup, and that is bad medical
advice from friends and relatives. I get much worse medical advice,
expressed in much stronger terms, and much more frequently, from
people in real life than I've ever seen here.
But I also suspect that like most of us here that often seriously
dangerous medical advice is no real danger to Michael, because he
takes nobody's unverified unchecked word for anything.
That being the case, is Michael really in any danger at all of having
his health harmed by some careless poster here who not only suggests
something inadvisable but happens to omit to mention that he ought to
check it out with his doctor? Or even, like some of my friends,
suggests I should never take the advice of any doctor because they're
all evil bastards in the pockets of Big Pharma who profit from keeping
people sick?
--
Chris Malcolm
Cheri
news:f7e2cb79-2966-4a24...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Kurt
============
What? I built my sky from the ground up! I only allow the sky to be blue in
your area when I feel like it, now get out!
Cheri
Ozgirl
Cheri, in the early posts there wasn't any mention of advising a doctor to
supervise Michaels beta blocker reduction. In fact Michael mentioned he
originally reduced the beta blocker off his own bat and some people didn't
mention talking to a doctor in those posts either. Its up to you how you
feel about people not recommending a docotor's opinion regarding an
important cardiac med for someone whose life depends on it but I find it
very wrong on a number of levels.
This is not petty criticism, its reminding people they aren't doctors. I
will not turn a blind eye to that kind of stuff no matter who the poster is.
Even leading someone to another who has attempted similar is a kind of
advice that excludes a doctor. I know people are free to research stuff
themselves but there are some who will follow blindly the advice of someone
on usenet who "appears" to have knowledge. Anyone can google and spout off.
It doesn't put that medical degree on their wall.
Ozgirl
> But I also suspect that like most of us here that often seriously
> dangerous medical advice is no real danger to Michael, because he
> takes nobody's unverified unchecked word for anything.
Michael's verification is often the web link someone has provided for him to
support their view.
Cheri
> This is not petty criticism, its reminding people they aren't doctors. I
> will not turn a blind eye to that kind of stuff no matter who the poster
> is. Even leading someone to another who has attempted similar is a kind of
> advice that excludes a doctor. I know people are free to research stuff
> themselves but there are some who will follow blindly the advice of
> someone on usenet who "appears" to have knowledge. Anyone can google and
> spout off. It doesn't put that medical degree on their wall.
Who are the *some* that will follow blindly Jan? I've never known one IRL,
and the only person that I've ever really known on Usenet that followed
advice blindly was Chuck Perry, the advice was from his doctor...it was not
good advice, it was terrible advice, and we know what happened with that.
Even people with medical degrees on their wall are fallible, and many of
these medical people depend on the net for researching many things too. I
prefer to hear from people that have had the experiences and then it's up to
me to decide what to do with the information, and every post *I* read in
the beta blocker thread told him to not be tapering off without consulting
his doctor. Michael is no youngster, so Michael can take what he needs and
leave the rest behind too. JMO
Cheri
Michael
Hi Nick,
I just now started reading these posts. My computer has been dead for a
while. A very nice Indian man named Sunav spent 3 hours on the phone
with me getting my router to working.
I do think when your legs give out it is time to go home. My legs are
pretty good so far. I try to keep track of my pulse. My doctor says that
is important. I am still exercising on the treadmill only 1/2 hour at my
target heart rate of about 130. It still makes me feel good.
I see the overwhelming consensus here is that I have been doing things a
little bit too fast. I sure don't want to upset anyone about what I do.
I just try to be accurate in what I write here. At least accurate on
what I do and what my tests show. My opinions are probably not that great.
I did reduce my Coreg beta blocker by 25 percent. I just need to stop
the fainting business. So far after 5 days, I am fine. I am keeping a
careful watch. My wife knows what I did and knows what to do if I get in
trouble. She knows where my Coreg is stashed.
Michael
Michael
Any decision I make about my own treatment is certainly my own
responsibility. I can't blame anyone else for how things go. I do listen
to everyone here. Most have good ideas. Just a couple want to flame me,
but my filters seem to be working now.
I am trying to be responsible in my own treatment. I don't behave so
wrecklessly as I did when young. My wife needs me now more than ever. I
pay attention to how my body feels. BTW, I have taken rum 2 nights in a
row and got consistent low FBG in the morning. I chart this, and it is
very consistent factor in my FBG readings.
Michael
Michael
Thanks a lot for the thoughtful post Chris.
I too feel it is better to go for it than to accept the idea that you
cannot make yourself any better. Just having the right attitude is
something I believe can heal. I am convinced that exercise and attitude
to do a lot for our health.
Michael.
Michael
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michael wrote:
>
>> the fainting business. So far after 5 days, I am fine. I am keeping a
>> careful watch. My wife knows what I did and knows what to do if I get
>> in trouble. She knows where my Coreg is stashed.
>
>
> a very long, slow taper, he had sudden episodes months later of
> tachycardia.
>
> You really need to phone or email your doctor for a discussion about how
> to go about this. If he tells you it's okay to do so at that rate, fine,
> but as the dose gets lower, often, the reductions have to be tinier in
> order to avoid arrhythmia or tachycardia.
>
> I know that fainting by itself represents a big danger, but it would
> really be safest to reduce both dangers in the safest possible way.
>
> Susan
I will email him today.
Michael
Michael
> On 01/04/2010 04:09 PM, Michael wrote:
>> I started doing treadmill exercise a couple of weeks ago. My pulse rate
>> target by the normal calculation is 220 minus my age times 80 percent.
>> This comes out for me to be 122.
>>
>> two week exercise I would begin being out of breath and basically being
>> worked hard. Now I am up to a pulse rate of 130 and am not out of breath
>> or feeling like I am working hard.
>>
>> control blood pressure and angina. I am afraid to go any faster because
>> I feel nervous about the consequences of going beyond my recommended rate.
>>
>> flights of stairs and feel fine.
>>
>> like maybe it is not doing so much good now. It is a quandary.
>>
>> At this point all I feel I can do is continue my exercise and keep my
>> pulse below 130.
>>
>>
>
> If you ain't sweating you ain't doing it right.
The good news is that I am sweating. I am just not out of breath.
Michael
Nick Cramer
> [ . . . ]
> I see the overwhelming consensus here is that I have been doing things a
> little bit too fast. I sure don't want to upset anyone about what I do.
> I just try to be accurate in what I write here. At least accurate on
> what I do and what my tests show. My opinions are probably not that
OK, Michael. Now I'll give you some advice! Don't worry about upsetting
anyone here! Worry about your health, your wife's happiness and your
doctor's opinions of what you're doing.
I don't want _my_ wife having to dispose of my body anytime soon!
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
Nick Cramer
> wrecklessly as I did when young. My wife needs me now more than ever. I
> pay attention to how my body feels. BTW, I have taken rum 2 nights in a
> row and got consistent low FBG in the morning. I chart this, and it is
> very consistent factor in my FBG readings.
Excellent, Michael! Accepting the responsibilty for the results of ones own
actions is sometimes painful, but always worthwhile. I, too, am less of a
jerk than I used to was.
I'm happy to hear of your feelings about your wife. I have 20 years of the
same. The best 20 years of my life!
Rum is one of my favorite forms of C2H5OH. I hope you're drinking a good
one! Recommendations on demand.
Michael
> Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> [ . . . ]
>> I am trying to be responsible in my own treatment. I don't behave so
>> wrecklessly as I did when young. My wife needs me now more than ever. I
>> pay attention to how my body feels. BTW, I have taken rum 2 nights in a
>> row and got consistent low FBG in the morning. I chart this, and it is
>> very consistent factor in my FBG readings.
>
> Excellent, Michael! Accepting the responsibilty for the results of ones own
> actions is sometimes painful, but always worthwhile. I, too, am less of a
> jerk than I used to was.
>
> I'm happy to hear of your feelings about your wife. I have 20 years of the
> same. The best 20 years of my life!
>
> Rum is one of my favorite forms of C2H5OH. I hope you're drinking a good
> one! Recommendations on demand.
>
OK Nick you got me,
I hate the rum I am drinking now. I am demanding a recommendation.
And, good for you and your relationship. There is not much better in
this life than sharing it with someone you love.
Michael
Nick Cramer
> On 1/6/2010 9:05 PM, Nick Cramer wrote:
> > Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>> [ . . . ]
> OK Nick you got me,
>
> I hate the rum I am drinking now. I am demanding a recommendation.
> And, good for you and your relationship. There is not much better in
> this life than sharing it with someone you love.
I am so grateful that she accepted me into her life.
Mount Gay Extra Old Barbados, Tortuga or Jamaican Dark Rum, Gosling's
Black Seal, Pussers. Work your way down the list and let me know what you
think!
Michael
> Mount Gay Extra Old Barbados, Tortuga or Jamaican Dark Rum, Gosling's
> Black Seal, Pussers. Work your way down the list and let me know what you
> think!
Thanks Nick
I printed out your list and will put it in my billfold so that I won't
forget it when I go to the store.
Michael
Nick Cramer
If yer billfold starts cryin', you might try one of the Bacardi's; Anejo,
Aged, Black, Dark or Gold. I'm working on a bottle of the Gold that I got
for Christmas. I can't afford the real good stuff anymore. ;-(
Michael
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michael wrote:
>
>> And, good for you and your relationship. There is not much better in
>> this life than sharing it with someone you love.
>
> of it still gives you benefits.
>
> Susan
I will try Susan,
A few data points will not hurt a thing.
Michael
Ozlover
> "Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7qk7c7...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > Bottom line: XNAY-ing posts serves NO purpose at all, other than
> > showing that the poster is being a nuisance or/and clueless.
>
> So, why do you care? Or are you just looking for for a reason to attack a
> poster?
I care about the "practicing selective recall" non-argument, which you
conveniently silently snipped. And I'm not the only one who is calling
"a poster" on *her* selective recall. Apparently having the audacity to
talk back at "a poster" is attacking in your book. So be it.
--
Frank Slootweg
Cheri
> Cheri <che...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> "Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:7qk7c7...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>> poster?
>
> I care about the "practicing selective recall" non-argument, which you
> conveniently silently snipped. And I'm not the only one who is calling
> "a poster" on *her* selective recall. Apparently having the audacity to
> talk back at "a poster" is attacking in your book. So be it.
>
> --
> Frank Slootweg
I am only responding to the part that I quoted which was:
> > Bottom line: XNAY-ing posts serves NO purpose at all, other than
> > showing that the poster is being a nuisance or/and clueless.
that should be obvious, and who is the *her*? I'm speaking of the generic
poster that you say is a "nuisance or/and clueless."
Cheri
Ozlover
> "Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7qmoal...@mid.individual.net...
> > Cheri <che...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >> "Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:7qk7c7...@mid.individual.net...
> >>
> >> So, why do you care? Or are you just looking for for a reason to
> >> attack a poster?
> >
> > I care about the "practicing selective recall" non-argument, which
> > you conveniently silently snipped. And I'm not the only one who is
> > calling "a poster" on *her* selective recall. Apparently having the
> > audacity to talk back at "a poster" is attacking in your book. So be
> > it.
> >
> > --
> > Frank Slootweg
>
> I am only responding to the part that I quoted which was:
>
> > > Bottom line: XNAY-ing posts serves NO purpose at all, other than
> > > showing that the poster is being a nuisance or/and clueless.
I know what you did and said so. In nearly all cases, only addressing
a part, takes things out of context, and this case is no exception.
> that should be obvious, and who is the *her*? I'm speaking of the generic
> poster that you say is a "nuisance or/and clueless."
Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. I'm not "attacking" anybody, let
alone "the generic poster". I naturally assumed that with "the poster"
you meant the poster which was subject of this subthread.
--
Frank Slootweg
Cheri
> I know what you did and said so. In nearly all cases, only addressing
> a part, takes things out of context, and this case is no exception.
In your mind only Mr Slootweg. I will address what parts I care to address,
I trust you will do the same.
Cheri
Ozlover
> "Ozlover" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7qn2f9...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > I know what you did and said so. In nearly all cases, only addressing
> > a part, takes things out of context, and this case is no exception.
>
> In your mind only Mr Slootweg.
I doubt that very much. The burden of the resulting mess is on the one
who deviates from the topic of the subthread, not on the ones who stick
to it.
BTW, get over yourself with the "Mr Slootweg" bit! You're just showing
the kind of attitude I mentioned in my "Apparently having the audacity to
talk back at "a poster" is attacking in your book." part, which you also
'conveniently' snipped.
> I will address what parts I care to address,
That's fine! But if the result is ambiguous - as it was in this case -
then don't blame the *reader* who *sticks* to the subject.
Face it, if you do things like this in RL - i.e. pretending that
someone only said a part of what (s)he actually said - you get the same
kind of response/problems.
> I trust you will do the same.
Indeed I will, and I will be responsible for any mess *I* create.
--
Frank Slootweg
Kurt
> > I trust you will do the same.
>
> � Indeed I will, and I will be responsible for any mess *I* create.
>
> --
> Frank Slootweg
Hey, Frank, not entering the argument on all of this, but wanted to
mention that IMO Cheri is one of the good people posting in this
newsgroup. She is not one of the annoying know-it-all wannabe doctor
types who post here and is pretty fair when it comes to accepting all
opinions. When I first started posting here Cheri and I kind of locked
horns, but as time went on we learned to respect each other. Unlike
others here, she can disagree with someone without the childish hide-
your-head-in-the-sand "I'm putting you in my killfile". Plus she likes
tomato beers, so that alone makes her a maverick! :)
Kurt
Cheri
Kurt
=======
Nice of you to say Kurt, but I know I can be a PITA here at times too. I've
seen myself do it. :-)
Cheri
Ozlover
> "Kurt" <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:023db7c9-bdf2-4bdf...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > I trust you will do the same.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Frank Slootweg
>
> Hey, Frank, not entering the argument on all of this, but wanted to
> mention that IMO Cheri is one of the good people posting in this
> newsgroup. She is not one of the annoying know-it-all wannabe doctor
> types who post here and is pretty fair when it comes to accepting all
> opinions. When I first started posting here Cheri and I kind of locked
> horns, but as time went on we learned to respect each other. Unlike
> others here, she can disagree with someone without the childish hide-
> your-head-in-the-sand "I'm putting you in my killfile". Plus she likes
> tomato beers, so that alone makes her a maverick! :)
>
> Kurt
>
> =======
>
> Nice of you to say Kurt, but I know I can be a PITA here at times too. I've
> seen myself do it. :-)
That's the ticket! When someone even *tries* to be more obnoxious than
me, there's *no* way I'll let hir get away with it! :-)
AFAIC, this 'case' is closed. But feel free to (try to :-)) flame me
to bits! :-)
P.S. These pita thingies are not good for your blood thingy!
--
Frank Slootweg
ellerby
<mic...@sbcglobal.net> posted:
Ah, Yeah, G'day Michael,
Rather than buying a bottle why not just get a single shot at a bar and put
in in a small container 'til later, or see if you can get a range of those
mini bottles? I intended to post such when rum was suggested initially but
I saw later in the thread that you had already bought a bottle, would drink
it medicinally till it was finished but wouldn't buy that one again.
Composed Ozdate Sat 9/1 3:45 pm and posted when back online.
All with the usual proviso - IANAL IMHO YMMV ...
.... and Wes' Guidelines re judging others:
regards, Lindsay in OZ
(Which only *partly* explains the date, spelling and posting styles)
M, 57, Non diabetic but familiarly involved
So I lurk, don't post often - usually in non medical threads.
Free app at http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
fixes the missing ">" in posts from OE in reply to posts from Google.
"It is in the shelter of each other that people live."
Irish Proverb
Robert Miles
news:peppermint_patootie-...@news.individual.net...
> In article <7qfovb...@mid.individual.net>,
> "Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote:
>
>> Nope. Sharing. Showing a cardiac patient how to get off their beta
>> blocker
>> would be interference and wrong.
>
> Well, thank goodness all the references were in terms of doing it under
> his doctor's supervision.
>
> You must have been reading some other newsgroup.
>
> PP
Like sci.med.cardiology, which occasionally mentions cardiology?
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
news:7qfldg...@mid.individual.net...
> Kurt wrote:
>> On Jan 4, 1:09?pm, Michael <mico...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> I started doing treadmill exercise a couple of weeks ago. My pulse
>>> rate target by the normal calculation is 220 minus my age times 80
>>> percent. This comes out for me to be 122.
>>>
>>> I have a problem already with this exercise. At the beginning of this
>>> two week exercise I would begin being out of breath and basically
>>> being worked hard. Now I am up to a pulse rate of 130 and am not out
>>> of breath or feeling like I am working hard.
>>>
>>> I have a stent in my right coronary artery and take a beta blocker to
>>> control blood pressure and angina. I am afraid to go any faster
>>> because
>>> I feel nervous about the consequences of going beyond my recommended
>>> rate.
>>>
>>> I stopped having angina a few years ago. I can trot up a couple of
>>> flights of stairs and feel fine.
>>>
>>> I certainly don't mind continuing my exercise the way it is. But I
>>> feel like maybe it is not doing so much good now. It is a quandary.
>>>
>>> At this point all I feel I can do is continue my exercise and keep my
>>> pulse below 130.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else run up against this problem? If so, what did you do?
>>>
>>> Michael
>>
>
> In one of Michael's first posts here he described his cardiac problems and
> how he had decided to cut his beta blocker down. I can't recall one person
> warning him of the dangers of cutting down a drug prescribed for a known
> heart complaint. On the contrary, he was told how to reduce the beta
> blocker safely! Jim Chinnis's experiences with getting off the beta
> blocker was tossed around (in his absence) but Jim himself said that there
> had been a nasty reaction that he hadn't shared with the group at the
> time. Bottom line, Michael has some serious health problems on top of his
> diabetes or pre diabetes, whatever. He shouldn't be asking for advice here
> when some of the advice asked relates to his cardiac care and he shouldn't
> be offered any advice. I found it very hard to believe that some would
> actually condone (and help) his efforts to get off the beta blocker.
> Recommendations on this carb, that carb or sharing one's experiences
> should be the limit of interference from others.
good source of information about cardiac problems, even if you don't mind
reading posts from Ch*ng. Cardiology is actually seldom mentioned there.
Robert Miles