Long term SSRI use causing irreversible brain damage and other side effects?
Jay Cee
Ive been on SSRI’s for about 6 years now. The drugs ranging from Zoloft
to Paxil (Arropax) through to Remeron (Avanza). Throughout this time
I’ve noticed that while the depression I was suffering from has eased,
some rather alarming side effects of the drugs have emerged.
Some of these side effects are:
*Major short term memory loss
*Difficulty concentration
*Difficulty with problem solving
*Problems with finding the right words in sentences, remembering peoples
names etc
*Missing words out whilst typing
*Difficulty paying attention whilst driving, forgetting street names or
where I am
*Feeling like Ive lost my personality, blank, boring.
*Facial tics (left eye, sometimes the right bicep)
Most of these became evident after the commencement of Paxil, known to
be one of the most potent SSRI medications on the market.
In light of this I decided to do some research (otherwise known as
google : ) and found an alarming number of people all reporting the same
symptoms that am suffering from*.
My question is to those that have used SSRI’s long term (2+ years) who
have experienced the above listed symptoms.
*** After ceasing the medication, how long did it take before the
cognitive, memory problems and facial ticks disappeared and you were
your normal self again? ***
I’m desperate to hear about your stories as I would hate to think that
myself and others may have sustained permanent brain damage due to using
such medication!
-------
*Links:
http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/000621_prozac_chat.html
http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/mentalhealth/messages/32097a.html
http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum_2/DepressionF/6.8.993.03PMSSRIsandMemor.html
Anton Sherwood
> I’ve noticed that while the depression I was suffering from has eased,
> some rather alarming side effects of the drugs have emerged.
It's hard for me to judge, because I always *was* absent-minded. ;)
But: after Prozac, along with the weight gain, I developed sleep apnea,
mild enough that I didn't notice it for years (though my housemate did);
and that presumably is what me generally less alert and dextrous.
--
Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Annie
"Jay Cee" <nemes...@TAKEthisOUTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f61a2fa$0$23585$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
Never.
The SSRI's inhibit isoenzyme CYP2D6, necessary for the body to properly
metabolize and clear many toxic substances.
8% of the caucasion population is deficient in CYP2D6 and their natural
deficiency has been assoicated with Parkinson's disorder.
The inhibition of isoenzyme CYP2D6 by SSRI's iatrogenically caused some
people to become ?CYP2D6 deficient like those genetically deficient.
Without isoenzyme CYP2D6 or upon it's inhibition metabolis and clearance of
certain toxins doesn't happen...so they are free to do permanent damage of
the neurological type you speak of.
http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s6.html
http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s7.html
http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s8.html
>http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/mentalhealth/messages/32097a.html
>
http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum_2/DepressionF/6.8.993.03PMSSRIsandMemor.html
>
Corey
Thanks for the excellent links you posted.
>The SSRI's inhibit isoenzyme CYP2D6, necessary for the body to properly
>metabolize and clear many toxic substances.
From the first link - s6
"Several observations rule out a major role for CYP 2D6 in the
metabolism of sertraline." - Zoloft
From the 3rd link - s8
"Only in the broadest sense can one state that all the SSRIs inhibit
CYP 2D6. It is misleading to make such a claim without acknowledging
the substantial differences among these drugs."
Annie
"Corey" <noe...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:isf8mvosp9spedr2s...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 07:35:26 GMT, "Annie" <An...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the excellent links you posted.
A thorough discussion even a layman can grasp (most of).
Good of you to note Zoloft isn't implicated, but then Zoloft isn't one of
the SSRI's which people are complaining of permanent brain damage from.
Jay Cee
that doctors told me I not only needed to take for LIFE because of my
apparent chemical imbalance, but also one that apparently was supposed
to have no known perminant side effects! :(
Sabrina
"Jay Cee" <nemes...@TAKEthisOUTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> It just doesnt leave much hope for ever recovering from a fucking drug
> that doctors told me I not only needed to take for LIFE because of my
> apparent chemical imbalance, but also one that apparently was supposed
> to have no known perminant side effects! :(
>
I have been unable to recover what I lost using SSRI's on and off for a
decade, after three years of trying.
I haven't given up yet!
So, don't you give up either.
Robert Lee
<nemes...@TAKEthisOUTyahoo.com> wrote:
> *Problems with finding the right words in sentences, remembering peoples
> names etc
> *Missing words out whilst typing
I have those side effects. As bothersome as they can be, it's a lot
better than being non-functional and suicidal all the time.
Go away, troll, and peddle your religious bullshit elsewhere.
--Robert
--
Do not sit next to Dennis
Sabrina
"Robert Lee" <cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cranchingwire-B8F...@news.west.earthlink.net...
You are evidently unaware that SSRI's are prescribed at the drop of a hat
for everything from PMS to nail biting to shyness.
While your particular condition might make any costly permanent brain damage
worth the benefits of relief from psychotic depression, do you imagine the
relief from nail biting or pms or shyness is worth risking permanent
disability from permanent brain and CNS damage?
Robert Lee
"Sabrina" <Sab...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> You are evidently unaware that SSRI's are prescribed at the drop of a hat
> for everything from PMS to nail biting to shyness.
No, I'm not. I object, however, to having them dissed in a Usenet group
that's for actual depressives. Presumably, those misdiagnosed or
misprescribed have elsewhere to go for succor.
Sabrina
> In article <22ea72358b80ad55...@news.teranews.com>,
> "Sabrina" <Sab...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > You are evidently unaware that SSRI's are prescribed at the drop of a
hat
> > for everything from PMS to nail biting to shyness.
>
> No, I'm not. I object, however, to having them dissed in a Usenet group
> that's for actual depressives.
If you are unable to cope with participants of ASD-med engaging in exchanges
of information about antidepressant medications, I advise you to
unsubscribe from ASD-med.
In 1997, when the volume of posts to Alt.support.depression became
overwhelming, ASD-med was chartered as a subgroup to ASD for the express
purpose of providing a gathering place for those with depression to
*exchange* information about anti-depressant medications.
The charter creating ASD-med specifically states ASD-med was chartered as a
forum for people with depression " to *exchange* information on medications"
Please accept the reality that any *exchange* of information about
medications will include not only therapeutic responses, but an exchange of
information about the side effects, adverse effects, paradoxical effects,
and long term or permanent damage accompanying use of such medications.
FYI, here is a copy of the charter which created ASD-med.
From ma...@mbsystem.u-net.com <mailto:ma...@mbsystem.u-net.com> Mon Mar 31
10:44:05 1997
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From: ma...@mbsystem.u-net.com <mailto:ma...@mbsystem.u-net.com> (Mark Berry)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: cmsg newgroup alt.support.depression.medication
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For your newsgroups file:
alt.support.depression.medication Discussion of anti-depressants.
****Booster****
I sent out a newgroup message about a week ago, but propagation is
currently so limited that this group isn't even yet carried by such
huge news carriers as America Online.
CHARTER: alt.support.depression.medication
Depression affects many millions of people worldwide. This news group
will provide helpful support as well as serve as a forum to exchange
information on medications. This aspect sometimes overwhelms the main
stream depression group which is more capable of supporting emotional
issues. The volume of the main group is now so large it is felt that a
sub-group may be useful.
END CHARTER.
Robert Lee
"Sabrina" <Sab...@nospam.com> wrote:
> If you are unable to cope with participants of ASD-med engaging in
> exchanges
> of information about antidepressant medications, I advise you to
> unsubscribe from ASD-med.
PLONK
Sabrina
Many posters to ASD-med have posted of similiar neuro symptoms developing
after years of being put on and off one SSRI after another.
My advice is you seek help from a really good Neurologist because the damage
is quite similiar to TBI/DBI or traumatic and or difffuse brain injury.
Most of the people incurring the brain damage have difficulty articulating
their symptomology.
However, Pentrikah2002's was able to articulate his/hers as well as
you...so i thought you might appreciate my reposting one of his/her's posts
so you know you are definitely not alone with symptoms of tramatic or
diffuse brain injury from SSRI use.
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=3e3df783.9249789%40news.cis.dfn.de&output=gplain
From: Pentri...@aol.com (Pentrikah)
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.medication
Subject: SSRI's cause LASTING brain damage....
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 05:29:26 GMT
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The following are what I believe to be the truth about SSRI's:
1. SSRI's cause permanent subtle cognitive damage
2. Most people who take SSRI's do not know that they have been
damaged
3. Most p-docs will advise you to increase your dosage if you
complain to them that you have suffered brain damage from SSRI's usage
4. Most p-docs will tell you that your damage is due to DEPRESSION,
even if you insist that you feel your cognitive ability has not been
the same since taking and consequently STOPPING the use of SSRIs.
5. Most p-docs get their information directly from the pharmaceutical
companies themselves, who fund the conferences, lectures, and
symposiums that they attend
6. Most pharmaceutical companies skew their research results to make
a profit, and virtually no long-term research is done to determine
whether SSRI's cause long-term damage to the brain
7. The most troubling permanent lasting adverse neurological effects
you may experience after prolonged SSRI usage (and consequent
STOPPING) are :
a). Word finding troubles
b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness
c). Permanently reduced sex drive
d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness
e). Trouble with coordination
f). Bad memory
g). Trouble retrieving words
h). Overall paucity of thought and expression
i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog)
j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice
(I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my
mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not)
8. After these brain damaging effects have sunken in, you may have
great difficulty finding support anywhere. Talking to a p-doc may be
an exercise in futility. They will want to protect their own interests
and shield themselves from a possible lawsuit, hence you may be told
continually to get back on meds/up your dosage. The more you protest,
the less credibility you have, thus the more evidence in your p-doc's
mind that you need to go back on SSRIs.
9. Once you realize the extent of the damage, and it sinks in beyond
the denial you may initially face, it will be hard to explain to
others exactly why you are not the same person you used to be. The
damage is similar to a TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) yet it might be
better termed DBI (Diffuse Brain Injury).
Would like feedback on the above.
Sabrina
"Lawrence Glickman" <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:adlamvsb6v0061ks9...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:49:45 GMT, "Sabrina" <Sab...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> |Hey Jay Cee.
> |
> |Many posters to ASD-med have posted of similiar neuro symptoms
developing
> |after years of being put on and off one SSRI after another.
>
> side-effects. If the cure is worse than the disease, you don't need
> the meds. If the disease is worse than the cure, take the meds.
>
> Lg
Exactly.
Corey
wrote:
>So it is always nice to see a post that helps tilt in the
>direction of freedom to speak up for or against the drugs,
>and for or against the doctors, or for or against some of
>the possible alternatives to the drugs.
If you aren't interested in medications, then why are you
participating in this forum?
Don't tell me it's for *our sake". I mean please....
If you want to preach to people, then find people who are interested
in listening to you.
What are your credentials?
Why have you decided that you are an expert in this field, and that we
should care about your opinions?
Why don't you publish your beliefs on a web site and just drop a link
to your site, instead of interrupting this newsgroup with your
un-asked-for opinions.
Once again, what are you getting out of this?
Robert Lee
<noe...@noemail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:26:10 GMT, Laramie <lars...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >So it is always nice to see a post that helps tilt in the
> >direction of freedom to speak up for or against the drugs,
> >and for or against the doctors, or for or against some of
> >the possible alternatives to the drugs.
>
> If you aren't interested in medications, then why are you
> participating in this forum?
That's precisely my objection to some posters--it's not like I don't
want to hear about possible bad side effects, bad experiences, bad
interactions, etc. I mean, hell, that's why I read this group. I like to
know everything I can about what I'm taking.
I just object to people who are obviously here to do nothing but ram
their own biased, agenda-based and/or completely uninformed opinions
about meds down the throats of people who have been well-served by
medication and are looking to share information. Deciding to go on meds
is a hard thing, and you get enough crap like that from well-meaning and
meddling folks in real life.
Boy, is my killfile for this group well-populated, at this point.
jake
<cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>Deciding to go on meds
>is a hard thing,
For many it is basically decided for them with total disregard for the
harmful effects
Robert Lee
<inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
Well, do you see any of them posting here?
jake
<cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <ikgcmvsa2nujnh90o...@4ax.com>, jake
><inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:09:03 GMT, Robert Lee
>> <cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Deciding to go on meds
>> >is a hard thing,
>>
>> For many it is basically decided for them with total disregard for the
>> harmful effects
>
>Well, do you see any of them posting here?
I have seen them posting here for many many years.. despite the
attempts of crackpot anti-scientology smearers and drug company shills
to silence them and prevent *informed * consent.
" In its recent infatuation with symptomatic, push-button remedies,
psychiatry has lost its way not only intellectually but spiritually
and morally. Even when it is not actually doing damage to the people
it is supposed to help,…it is encouraging among doctors and patients
alike the fraudulent and dangerous fantasy that life's every passing
'symptom' can be clinically diagnosed and, once diagnosed, alleviated
if not eliminated by pharmacological intervention."
Paul R. McHugh
Professor of Psychiatry,
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Robert Lee
<inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
> crackpot anti-scientology smearers
PLONK
jake
<cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <v2jcmvc0tslec3ivf...@4ax.com>, jake
><inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> crackpot anti-scientology smearers
>
>PLONK
yeah..ostrich policy should do it
:>)
__
jake
wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:43:17 +0100, jake
><inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:25:02 GMT, Robert Lee
>><cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <ikgcmvsa2nujnh90o...@4ax.com>, jake
>>><inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:09:03 GMT, Robert Lee
>>>> <cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Deciding to go on meds
>>>> >is a hard thing,
>>>>
>>>> For many it is basically decided for them with total disregard for the
>>>> harmful effects
>>>
>>>Well, do you see any of them posting here?
>>
>>I have seen them posting here for many many years.. despite the
>>attempts of crackpot anti-scientology smearers and drug company shills
>>to silence them and prevent *informed * consent.
>>
>
>I have also seen many posting here for a number of years.
>It can be helpful to some to know that there are others in
>the same boat.
>
>And can also be helpful to others who are having drugs
>pushed at them to know that at least some people do better
>without the drugs Or possibly with "less"
>drugs. Or possibly with additional items to the drugs. And
>take that into account when making whatever informed
>decisions they are able to make . For those who might be in
>the middle and not yet at the point to definitely know that
>drugs is for them, or definitely know that drugs is not for
>them.
>
>And can also be helpful to know how others got coerced to
>take drugs they did not want in order to help defend
>themselves against the doctors should they run into some of
>the more pushy ones.
>------
>
>Do not seem to see many doctors or people in the mental
>heath system who are willing to do anything other than drugs
>or drugs plus something else at most.
Dr Lauren is a notable exception
>So that type of
>information comes mostly from other patients who have been
>done in by the system (C/S/X), or from people who have
>known and helped other patients who were stuck taking drugs
>they did not want to take.and/or were made worse rather
>than better by the drugs.
>
>Though there are some good doctors writing some good books
>that can help a lot, it does not look like many doctors
>either read those books, or believe them.
>
>All of this might or might not be of interest to those who
>do the drugs, and like to do the drugs. But that does
>not make it right to try to censor or squash those who post
>information that might not be favorable to the drugs. And
>which could help others who would like to be better informed
>than what the drug companies and / or what many of the
>doctors try to tell them.
>
>There needs to be freedom for people to do informed
>consent. And a freedom for people to speak up.. To avoid
>the "informed" part being only what the doctors try to tell
>people . Which is which is not always the "layout of all the
>options" that someone mentioned his doctor does for him.
>And to avoid best as can the " consent" part from getting
>eroded via a number of ways which have been discussed here a
>number of times.
>
>It should not be up to those who become self appointed
>censors. To decide what others can or can not read about.
>(My opinion). We are talking about whether or not people
>should be able to post information without automatically
>being called a scientologist, or off topic, or a troll
>should the information not happen to correspond to what the
>doctors try to tell people. Who appear to lack common
>sense when it comes to what looks like an over reliance on
>drugs. Even the U. S. Freedom Commission has indicated
>that there is an over reliance on drugs in the U.S..
>
>And when the originator of the thread indicated he was told
>drugs for life, it is reasonable to question whether or not
>that is correct. Even if the drugs for life item came from
>a doctor. Maybe the doctor is right. Maybe the doctor is
>wrong. But either way, it is something that is worth
>questioning by someone who does not appear to be happy with
>the idea (Jay). And either way, it is something that is
>discussable regardless of the self appointed censors.
Thank you for contributing this excellent post
__
ghost
"Robert Lee" wrote:
(snip)> Boy, is my killfile for this group well-populated, at this point.
Haven't visited alt.support.depression.manic recently, have you?
Need a whole damn computer for there's killfiles.
jake
<davew"nospam"@pioneer-net.com> wrote:
>I would rather take drugs that cause brain damage and be sain. Who knows
>maybe the damage would keep me normal all the time!
come back when you cannot sleep for jerking and twitching and say
that..
of course you might have difficulty saying it if your tongue is
permenantly rolling about.
>
>Laramie <lars...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:nsjcmv8g1ck2lsg7k...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:43:17 +0100, jake
>> <inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:25:02 GMT, Robert Lee
>> ><cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <ikgcmvsa2nujnh90o...@4ax.com>, jake
>> >><inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:09:03 GMT, Robert Lee
>> >>> <cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >Deciding to go on meds
>> >>> >is a hard thing,
>> >>>
>> >>> For many it is basically decided for them with total disregard for the
>> >>> harmful effects
>> >>
>> >>Well, do you see any of them posting here?
>> >
>> >I have seen them posting here for many many years.. despite the
>> >attempts of crackpot anti-scientology smearers and drug company shills
>> >to silence them and prevent *informed * consent.
>> >
>>
>> I have also seen many posting here for a number of years.
>> It can be helpful to some to know that there are others in
>> the same boat.
>>
>> And can also be helpful to others who are having drugs
>> pushed at them to know that at least some people do better
>> without the drugs Or possibly with "less"
>> drugs. Or possibly with additional items to the drugs. And
>> take that into account when making whatever informed
>> decisions they are able to make . For those who might be in
>> the middle and not yet at the point to definitely know that
>> drugs is for them, or definitely know that drugs is not for
>> them.
>>
>> And can also be helpful to know how others got coerced to
>> take drugs they did not want in order to help defend
>> themselves against the doctors should they run into some of
>> the more pushy ones.
>> ------
>>
>> Do not seem to see many doctors or people in the mental
>> heath system who are willing to do anything other than drugs
>> or drugs plus something else at most. So that type of
>> > " In its recent infatuation with symptomatic, push-button remedies,
>> >psychiatry has lost its way not only intellectually but spiritually
>> >and morally. Even when it is not actually doing damage to the people
>> >it is supposed to help,.it is encouraging among doctors and patients
>> >alike the fraudulent and dangerous fantasy that life's every passing
>> >'symptom' can be clinically diagnosed and, once diagnosed, alleviated
>> >if not eliminated by pharmacological intervention."
>> >
>> >Paul R. McHugh
>> >Professor of Psychiatry,
>> >Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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__
Corey
>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:09:09 -0700, "Mogie"
><davew"nospam"@pioneer-net.com> wrote:
>
>>I would rather take drugs that cause brain damage and be sain. Who knows
>>maybe the damage would keep me normal all the time!
>
>come back when you cannot sleep for jerking and twitching and say
>that..
Why are you being hostile?
What is your point?
Do you think this is helpful?
Do you really expect anybody to take your advice over the advice of
their Doctor?
You're just a nobody with contrary opinions.
>of course you might have difficulty saying it if your tongue is
>permenantly rolling about.
Are you nuts?
Maybe you need some p-meds.
jake
>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:24:35 +0100, jake <inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:09:09 -0700, "Mogie"
>><davew"nospam"@pioneer-net.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I would rather take drugs that cause brain damage and be sain. Who knows
>>>maybe the damage would keep me normal all the time!
>>
>>come back when you cannot sleep for jerking and twitching and say
>>that..
>
>Why are you being hostile?
harsh truth not hostility..although when you have loved ones suffering
from long term neurological damage it clearly gives mixed feelings
when it is routinely minimised by rthe ignorant
>What is your point?
>Do you think this is helpful?
>Do you really expect anybody to take your advice over the advice of
>their Doctor?
what "advice " might that be?
telling you spell doctor with a capital "D"..they are fallible and in
some cases corrupt mortls not gods
>You're just a nobody with contrary opinions.
hmmm..what were you saying about hostility?
>
>>of course you might have difficulty saying it if your tongue is
>>permenantly rolling about.
>
>Are you nuts?
never seen it then huh?
>Maybe you need some p-meds.
maybe my dog knows more than you about longterm neurological damage
Mr.G
beat the bullet to the brain, and for many of us, that IS the
alternative. For a more elaborate inquiry into depression, I suggest
reading "Noonday Demon".
John
"Mr.G" <geo...@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
news:59809a25.0309...@posting.google.com...
> Whatever harm the meds do to the brain, they sure
> beat the bullet to the brain, and for many of us, that IS the
> alternative.
SSRI's and putting a bullet to one's head are not mutually exclusive.
In fact, studies demonstrating that children were three times more likely
to have suicidal ideations activated on Paxil then from MDD incited the US
FDA to mandate US Doctors cease prescribing Paxil to depressed children,
following on the heels of governments in europe BANNING the prescription of
Paxil to children alogether.
Most recently, the FDA demanded SSRI manufacturers re-submit ALL stuides
ever conducted on SSRI's use in children owing to the three fold increase in
the rate of suicide ideations and increased risk of suicide among people ON
SSRI's.
The US FDA reviewed the increased rate of suicidal ideations, therefore
greater risk of suicide ON SSRI's back in 1991, but failed to act on the
knowledge that SSRI's increased suicidal ideations therefore putting those
prescribed SSRI's at greater risk to suicide.
John
"Mogie" <davew"nospam"@pioneer-net.com> wrote in message
news:3f667...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> I would rather take drugs that cause brain damage and be sain.
A choice you get to make yourself because you have some info about the
potential damage.
A choice those prescribed SSRI's from 1988 to 2001 didn't make because
information about the downside of SSRI's was being withheld from the public.
jake
The manufacturers are WELL aware of this and have gone
to great lengths to cover it up.
Sci Eng Ethics. 2003 Jan;9(1):59-71.
In the grip of the python: conflicts at the university-industry
interface.
Healy D.
North Wales Dept of Psychological Medicine, University of Wales
College of
Medicine, Hergest Unit, Bangor LL57 2PW, United Kingdom.
Healy_...@compuserve.com
When the University of Toronto withdrew a contract it held with me in
December 2000, it initiated a sequence of events that led to a public
letter to the University from senior figures in the world
psychopharmacology community protesting against the infringement of
academic freedom involved and a first ever legal action, undertake by
this author, seeking redress for a violation of academic freedom.
The issues of academic freedom surrounding this case have been
intertwined with a debate about the possibility that the selective
serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) group of antidepressants have the
potential to trigger suicidality in a subgroup of patients.
Whether the SSRIs do trigger suicidality or not, exploration of this
issue has given rise to a number of worrying sets of observations.
First, in my view, there is evidence that pharmaceutical companies
have miscoded raw data on suicidal acts and suicidal ideation.
Second, this author also maintains that there is a growing body of
examples of ghostwriting of articles in the therapeutics domain. Many
of the tensions evident in this case, therefore, can be linked to
company abilities to keep clinical trial data out of the public
domain--this is the point at which the pharmaceutical python
gets a grip on academia.
Sunny
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:51:37 GMT, Corey
> <noe...@noemail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:26:10 GMT, Laramie <lars...@nospam.com>
> >wrote:
> >
>
> the drugs for life mantra. But somehow or other ends up
> being called a troll just because he has had a lot of side
> effects?
SSRI's are famous for switching off people's consciences.
Historically, SSRI users post a lot of hyperbole and propaganda
mythologizing SSRI's, while referring to the legions of those whom the
SSRI's killed, maimed, and caused permanently damage to as "collateral
damage" ala Kevin McVeighs callously referring to the pre-schoolers in the
Fed Bldg in Oklahoma as collateral damage.
Even after reading and posting to ASD-med for three years, its always
jarring when the near psychopathy of those on AD's rears it's ugly head.
> Simply providing my opinion as to what I think, That could
> be of help to the original poster . >
>.. if people are free to post their ideas without the
> censure - and or bully factor.
ASD-Med, a sub of ASD, was chartered as a forum in which to exchange info
about antidepressant medications.
I suspect any poster falsely believing they have any right to question
another posters exchange of info about AD's on an unmoderated Ng
specifically chartered for people to exchange such information, has got
psych problems beyond the scope of this forum for unipolar depression
sufferers.
Roger
news:ff44fcc7eae68095...@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Laramie" <lars...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:vgncmvkukvqlaaa9o...@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:51:37 GMT, Corey
> > <noe...@noemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:26:10 GMT, Laramie <lars...@nospam.com>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> >
> > My post is sympathetic to the original poster who was given
> > the drugs for life mantra. But somehow or other ends up
> > being called a troll just because he has had a lot of side
> > effects?
>
> SSRI's are famous for switching off people's consciences.
>
> Historically, SSRI users post a lot of hyperbole and propaganda
> mythologizing SSRI's, while referring to the legions of those whom the
> SSRI's killed, maimed, and caused permanently damage to as "collateral
> damage" ala Kevin McVeighs callously referring to the pre-schoolers in
the
> Fed Bldg in Oklahoma as collateral damage.
>
> Even after reading and posting to ASD-med for three years, its always
> jarring when the near psychopathy of those on AD's rears it's ugly head.
Why are you even here? We already have enough problems without this kind of
hatred and missinformation.
If you don't have anything to say that will help people, please don't say
anything.
>
> > Simply providing my opinion as to what I think, That could
> > be of help to the original poster . >
> >.. if people are free to post their ideas without the
> > censure - and or bully factor.
>
> ASD-Med, a sub of ASD, was chartered as a forum in which to exchange info
> about antidepressant medications.
>
> I suspect any poster falsely believing they have any right to question
> another posters exchange of info about AD's on an unmoderated Ng
> specifically chartered for people to exchange such information, has got
> psych problems beyond the scope of this forum for unipolar depression
> sufferers.
Unless you are a psychiatrist, please don't try and diagnose anyone. A
psychiatrist would know better than to do that anyway.
bluemoon
"Roger" <rog...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JqE9b.228$gH6.31...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
A. This group is for the discussion of medications used to treat
depression, depression has many forms.
B. If you don't have depression, Linda, why are you and Bob here?
C. That's a rhetorical question.
LJ
depression and have endured 4 weeks of hell withdrawal. I am trying to find
out how the medical fraternity go about diagnosing depression as a chemical
imbalance and prescribing chemicals to fix it if they are unable to even
test the levels. surely that is a valid question for this forum.
"bluemoon" <blue...@milkyway.com> wrote in message
news:5uE9b.57312$875.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
bluemoon
"LJ" <music...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ARE9b.106303$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
not the kind of information you're going to find here. There are lots of
theories about depression. I guess what you have to do is weigh the
information you get and make an informed decision. This would be a good
question for your doctor.
LJ
make an informed decision if the scientific community are still theorising
about it lol.
"bluemoon" <blue...@milkyway.com> wrote in message
news:82F9b.57473$875.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
bluemoon
> Thanks Bluemoon - must be another Linda.....it's kind of difficult though
to
> make an informed decision if the scientific community are still theorising
> about it lol.
>
<snip>
No problem. I don't know what kind of doctor you see. I don't know that
gen. prac. types of doctors have the experience necessary to understand the
nuances of treatment with anti-depressants and it seems they are likely to
prescribe whatever the last drug rep brought by.
The SSRI type of AD, never worked for me, and that's alot more common than
what you read in papers, IMO.
YMMV, is the mantra for this group.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
jake
>"Sunny" <Su...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:ff44fcc7eae68095...@news.teranews.com...
>>
>> "Laramie" <lars...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:vgncmvkukvqlaaa9o...@4ax.com...
>> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:51:37 GMT, Corey
>> > <noe...@noemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:26:10 GMT, Laramie <lars...@nospam.com>
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> >
>> > My post is sympathetic to the original poster who was given
>> > the drugs for life mantra. But somehow or other ends up
>> > being called a troll just because he has had a lot of side
>> > effects?
>>
>> SSRI's are famous for switching off people's consciences.
>>
>> Historically, SSRI users post a lot of hyperbole and propaganda
>> mythologizing SSRI's, while referring to the legions of those whom the
>> SSRI's killed, maimed, and caused permanently damage to as "collateral
>> damage" ala Kevin McVeighs callously referring to the pre-schoolers in
>the
>> Fed Bldg in Oklahoma as collateral damage.
>>
>> Even after reading and posting to ASD-med for three years, its always
>> jarring when the near psychopathy of those on AD's rears it's ugly head.
>
>Why are you even here? We already have enough problems without this kind of
>hatred and missinformation.
yuo have a nerve don't you?
ther poster you pose your insolent and impertinent questions has been
here YEARS longer than you and no doubt will be here long after you
have gone.
they are extremely well informed on depression medication..both on a
theoretical and practical level..as opposed to your drool about
obscure reigious cults
>
>If you don't have anything to say that will help people, please don't say
>anything.
nobody appointed YOU moderator of an unmoderated group chum..get used
to it..
Sunny
> forget c...i've been on effexor for 5 years after being "diagnosed" with
> depression and have endured 4 weeks of hell withdrawal. I am trying to
find
> out how the medical fraternity go about diagnosing depression as a
chemical
> imbalance and prescribing chemicals to fix it if they are unable to even
> test the levels. surely that is a valid question for this forum.
Researchers shilling for pharmaceutical companies hype that theory, but I
have never heard a practicing licensed doctor suggest such a thing.
Whenever I or anyoone I know goes to their doctor about depression, the
doctor will check you out for physiological problems which depression is
known to be secondary to, and treat your physiological problem...which
allevies the depression..
If there is no signs of any of the 50 odd physiological disease Depression
is known to be secondary to, then they will ask you what has been going on
in your life, to find you if you are under a lot of stress because you are
carrying some arsehole, or being psychostalked by criminally insane wackos.
If they find out youre depressed because of an abusive boss, or some
psychostalker harassing you...then they dx "REACTIVE DEPRESSION" owing to
it being caused by external circumstances.
Only, if or where they find no physiological disorder, and no external
circumstances trigger reactive depression, will they dx MDD which is
ENDOGENOUss or internal depression.
Basically, MDD is the DX given to people with depression where the cause of
the depression remains a mystery.
I don't think anyone but lunatics actually believes MDD is a chemical
imbalance of the brain, in and of itself, separate from some other disease
process.
I think most rational, sane people know depression is secondary to some
physiological disorder, or really oppressive external circumstances..
Jay Cee
from SSRI use?
After posting the original article to this thread, I was suprised to
find that so many people have experienced similar symptoms to myself.
Not only this but I was almost devistated to find out that the symptoms
Ive complained of could be classed as a for of brain damage brought on
by the long term use of SSRI medication.
After re-grouping myself from this shocking revelation, I decided to do
conduct some study into how the brain may be able to repair itself if
this was at all possible. An area of interest was seen to be of a field
of study called "Neuroplasticity" or the brains ability to regrow new
cells and also re/forge new links (memories, experiences, knowledge).
Ive pasted part of definition below along with the link. This can
certainly give people hope that they may be able to once return to their
former capabilities before the use of SSRI's
-- JayCee
http://www.stanford.edu/group/hopes/rltdsci/nplast/u0.html
"Scientists are certain that the brain continually adjusts and
reorganizes. In fact, while studying monkeys, they found that the
neuronal connections in many brain regions appear to be organized
differently each time they are examined! While it remains uncertain at
this writing (April 2003) whether reorganization in the adult brain
involves the formation of new neural connections, existing neural
pathways that are inactive or used for other purposes do show the
ability to take over and carry out functions lost to degeneration.
Understanding the brain's ability to dynamically reorganize itself helps
scientists understand how patients sometimes recover brain functions
damaged by injury or disease..."
jake
<nemes...@TAKEthisOUTyahoo.com> wrote:
>Neuroplasticity might provide hope for those who have sustained damage
>from SSRI use?
Thank you for posting this intersting and important link which will
give hope to many..those suffering from electroshock damage
as well as those SSRI impaired
__
Robert Lee
"Sunny" <Su...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Historically, SSRI users post a lot of hyperbole and propaganda
^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
> mythologizing SSRI's, while referring to the legions of those whom the
^^^^^^^
> SSRI's killed, maimed, and caused permanently damage to as "collateral
^^^^^^^^
> damage" ala Kevin McVeighs callously referring to the pre-schoolers in
^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the
^^^^^
> Fed Bldg in Oklahoma as collateral damage.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And you seriously accuse those of us who are well-served by SSRI's of
"mythologizing" and "hyperbole?"
"Historically?" How are personal success stories about meds
"propaganda?" What "legions?" When has anybody here ever referred to
someone legitimately harmed by a wrong prescription as "collateral
damage?" Dragging in Oklahoma City? Why don't you just compare those of
us who aren't here to preach at the legitimate members of this group to
Al Qaeda?
And BTW, it's *Timothy* McVeigh. You might remember, as there have been
one or two news stories about him in the last near-decade.
Lord, I wish I could PLONK you twice.
Robert Lee
<rog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I suspect any poster falsely believing they have any right to question
> > another posters exchange of info about AD's on an unmoderated Ng
> > specifically chartered for people to exchange such information, has
> > got
> > psych problems beyond the scope of this forum for unipolar depression
> > sufferers.
>
> Unless you are a psychiatrist, please don't try and diagnose anyone. A
> psychiatrist would know better than to do that anyway.
Note what Sunny's objecting to, specifically: just being called into
question. I'm betting that between, say, three or four of us treatment
vets, we could probably come up with a halfway decent amateur diagnosis,
just based on that.
bluemoon
"Robert Lee" <cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cranchingwire-522...@news.west.earthlink.net...
Oh, you will be able too, she posts under a different nick every day or so,
but you can tell by the composition who the author is.
Robert Lee
"bluemoon" <blue...@milkyway.com> wrote:
>
> > Lord, I wish I could PLONK you twice.
> >
> > --Robert
>
> Oh, you will be able too, she posts under a different nick every day or
> so,
> but you can tell by the composition who the author is.
Oh, goodie. One of those.
F Troop
"Robert Lee" <cranch...@youknowwhattodo.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cranchingwire-522...@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <ff44fcc7eae68095...@news.teranews.com>,
>
> And you seriously accuse those of us who are well-served by SSRI's of
> "mythologizing" and "hyperbole?"
>
If you wish to meet people who are well served by SSRI's you will have to
subscribe to alt.support.anxiety.panic and alt.support.trauma-PTSD ng to
find them.
People with depression are not well served by treatment of depression with
SSRI's.
The best therapeutic effect which those with depression can hope to obtain
from SSRI's is an even worse psychiatric disorder, called hypomania or
bipolar II.
Where SSRI's fail to activate Bipolar II in depression sufferers, SSRI's
generally activate far worse conditions, paradoxically, even plunging some
SSRI's users into psychotic depression.
> "Historically?" How are personal success stories about meds
> "propaganda?"
What success stories are you referring to?
In the 6 years since ASD-med was chartered, ASD-med hasn't had any posters
whose MDD was successfully treated by SSRI's.
All ASD-med ever has is posters like yourself posting a lot of hype and
propaganda mythologizing SSRI's, while simultaneously demonstrating they
aren't serving the posters posting the hype about them very well.
Read the thousands of posts by LostboyofNC, hyping SSRI's while Lostboy was
in in living hell on SSRI's A hell he only got out of by finally stopping
the SSRI's and having his depression really treated by MAOI's.
>What "legions?"
When has anybody here ever referred to
> someone legitimately harmed by a wrong prescription as "collateral
> damage?"
A newbie, eh?
Robert Lee
Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> People with depression are not well served by treatment of depression with
> SSRI's.
I am. Fuck off.
Nom dePlume
> I don't think anyone but lunatics actually believes MDD is a
chemical
> imbalance of the brain, in and of itself, separate from some other
disease
> process.
Your statement is clearly, unequivocally, absolutely wrong. Believe
what you like, but calling people who have thought about the issue and
come to different conclusions than yourself 'lunatics' says a lot
about the immaturity of your behavior, and nothing about the merits of
different theories of depression.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Yes, you, too, can be a social aphid!
Nom dePlume
news:48edb58d963ff5b7...@news.teranews.com...
> If you wish to meet people who are well served by SSRI's you will
have to
> subscribe to alt.support.anxiety.panic and alt.support.trauma-PTSD
ng to
> find them.
>
> People with depression are not well served by treatment of
depression with
> SSRI's.
This is, to put it politely, used male cow food. SSRI's don't work for
everyone who has depression (any more than any other drug does), but I
know two women who suffered from depression and improved dramatically
on taking Prozac. One took it for a limited time, then stopped, and
her depression never returned. She was cured. The other continued for
at least a couple of years before I lost touch with her, and also felt
vastly better.
You are simply wrong.
jake
<nomdepl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:48edb58d963ff5b7...@news.teranews.com...
>
>> If you wish to meet people who are well served by SSRI's you will
>have to
>> subscribe to alt.support.anxiety.panic and alt.support.trauma-PTSD
>ng to
>> find them.
>>
>> People with depression are not well served by treatment of
>depression with
>> SSRI's.
>
>This is, to put it politely, used male cow food. SSRI's don't work for
>everyone who has depression (any more than any other drug does), but I
>know two women who suffered from depression and improved dramatically
>on taking Prozac.
oh that sures proves it it then....NOT
Adverse SSRI Reactions
Recent medical studies show that that the brain levels of Prozac are
100 times greater than blood levels and it is believed that this is
the case with the other serotonin reuptake inhibitors as well -
evidence of toxic brain levels affecting behavior no matter what the
blood levels demonstrate. As patients have continued to report, this
accumulation is evidence that accumulation of drug residue will
produce a delayed withdrawal and that it will continue to produce
reactions, not only during the period of time the patient is using the
drug, but for long periods of time after discontinuation of the drug
use.
Brain wave patterns indicate patients are in a total anesthetic sleep
state while appearing awake and functioning. Increasing serotonin -
exactly what these drugs are designed to do - induces both nightmares
and sleepwalk. Patients report over and over again that they have
lived out their worst nightmare. And as with sleepwalk episodes, many
have no recall or little recall of what they have done. Often someone
must prove to them what they have done while they where under the
influence of these drugs before they will believe it to be true. One
patient stated that he could not detect during his two year use of
Prozac what was real or what was a dream!
Seven to ten percent of patients do not have the liver function
necessary to metabolize these drugs. Unfortunately even if they do
have a functioning P450 IID6 liver system to metabolize the drugs,
this group of drugs totally saturates that liver system so that the
ability to metabolize the drug gradually becomes greatly impaired and
the metabolism of other drugs becomes greatly impaired.
Stress or depression can be detected by elevated levels of cortisol,
yet one single 30mg dose of Prozac clearly doubles the level of
cortisol. This should in the long run double the patient's stress and
depression. But that is not the only detrimental effect of elevated
cortisol levels. This can cause a multitude of serious physical and
emotional adverse side effects.
Giving these drugs to children is absolutely unconscionable for many
reasons. One of the most obvious is that increased cortisol impairs
the development and regeneration of the liver, kidney and muscles, as
well as impairing linear growth. Yet, learning that even one parent
was given this information would be surprising. PROZAC: PANACEA OR
PANDORA?--Ann Blake Tracy
Here is the complete list of adverse reactions attributable to SSRI
medications:
Insomnia
Vivid and violent dreams
Inability to detect dreams from reality (The world takes on an
other-worldly aspect)
No emotions
Inability to feel guilt or cry
Nausea
Loss of appetite
Rash; Breathing or lung problems
Heart fluttering
Shaking - jitteriness
Unusual energy surges at times producing super human strength
(adrenalin rushes)
Memory impairment
Hair loss
Blurred vision or pressure behind the eyes
Inability to discontinue use of drug and increasing own dose
Cravings for alcohol, sweets, and other substances or drinking large
sums of alcohol, coffee or other caffeinated drinks, diet pop with
NutraSweet, etc.
Headaches
Swelling and/or pain in joints
Burning or tingling in extremities
Muscle twitching or contractions
Tongue numbness and slurred speech
Sweating
Dizziness
Confusion
Chills or cold sweats
Muscle weakness
Extreme fatigue
Diabetes or hypoglycemia
Lowered immune system
Seizures or convulsions
Weight gain or weight loss
Mood swings
Altered personality
Symptoms of mania, ie., inability to sit still or restlessness, racing
thoughts, acting silly or giddy (like a teenager again)
Sexual promiscuity leading to unwanted pregnancy or divorce
Irresponsibility, wild spending sprees, gambling, criminal behavior,
shoplifting, embezzling, stealing, hostility, etc.
Deceitfulness
Blank staring
Inability to see any alternatives in situations
Hyperactivity
Aggressive or violent behavior
Wanting to ram other cars or driving irrationally
Impulsive behavior with no concern about consequences
Numbness in various body parts - legs go numb and right out from under
patient
Sexual organs go numb making orgasm impossible
Pulling away from loved ones and others (isolating oneself)
Divorce
No desire to be touched
Paranoia
Falsely accusing others of abuse - family members or acquaintances
Loss of spirituality
Feeling "possessed" or that something evil is inside
Self destructive behavior and suicidal ideation
Suicide attempts
Muscle tremors
Loss of co-ordination
Mania
Psychosis
[SOURCE: PROZAC: PANACEA OR PANDORA?, BY ANN BLAKE TRACY, PH.D.]
Prozac Label (September, 1988)
Here is the information as it written on the label insert for Prozac:
Body as a Whole---Frequent: chills; Infrequent: chills and fever, face
edema, intentional overdose, malaise, pelvic pain, suicide attempt:
Rare: abdominal syndrome acute, hypothermia: intentional injury,
neuroleptic malignant syndrome, photosensitivity reaction.
Cardiovascular System ---Frequent: hemorrhage, hypertension:
Infrequent: angina pectoris, arrhythmia, congestive heart failure,
hypotension, migraine, myocardial infarct, postural hypotension,
syncope, tachycardia, vascular headache: Rare: atrial fibrillation,
bradycardia, cerebral embolism, cerebral ischemia, cerebrovascular
accident, extrasystoles, heart arrest, heart block, pallor, peripheral
vascular disorder, phlebitis, shock, thrombophlebitis, thrombosis,
vasospasm, ventricular arrhythmia, ventricular extrasystoles,
ventricular fibrillation.
Digestive System---Frequent: increased appetite, nausea and vomiting:
Infrequent: aphthous stomatitis, cholelithiasis, colitis, dysphagia,
eructation, esophagitis, gastritis, gastroenteritis, glossitis, gum
hemorrhage, hyperchlorhydia, increased salivation, liver function
tests abnormal, melena, mouth ulceration, nausea/vomiting/diarrhea,
stomach ulcer, stomatitis, thirst: Rare: biliary pain, bloody
diarrhea, cholecystitis, duodenal ulcer, enteritis, esophageal ulcer,
fecal incontinence, gastrointestinal hemorrhage, hematemesis,
hemorrhage of colon, hepatitis, intestinal obstruction, liver fatty
deposit, pancreatitis, peptic ulcer, rectal hemorrhage, salivary gland
enlargement, stomach ulcer hemorrhage, tongue edema.
Endocrine System---Infrequent: hypothyroidism: Rare: diabetic
acidosis, diabetes mellitus.
Hemic and Lymphatic system---Infrequent: anemia and ecchytmosis: Rare:
blood dyscrasia, hypochromic anemia, leukopenia, lymphedema,
lymphocytosis, petechia, purpura, thrombocythemia, thrombocytopenia.
Metabolic and Nutritional---Frequent: weight gain; Infrequent:
dehydration, generalized edema, gout, hypercholesteremia,
hyperlipemia, hypokalemia, peripheral edema; Rare: alcohol
intolerance, alkaline phosphatase increased, BUN increased, creatine
phosphokinase increased, hyperkaltemia, hyperuricemia, hypocalcemia,
iron deficiency anemia, SGPT increased.
Musculoskeletal System---Infrequent: arthritis, bone pain, bursitis,
leg cramps, tenosynovitis: Rare: arthrosis, chondrodystrophy,
myasthenia, myopathy, myositis, osteomyelitis, osteoporosis,
rheumatoid arthritis.
Nervous System---Frequent: agitation, amnesia, confusion, emotional
lability, sleep disorder; Infrequent: abnormal gait; acute brain
syndrome, akathisia, apathy, ataxia, buccoglossal syndrome, CNS
depression, CNS stimulation, depersonalization, euphoria,
hallucinations, hostility, hyperkinesia, hypertonia, hypesthesia,
incoordination, libido increased, myoclonus, neuralgia, neuropathy,
neurosis, paranoid reaction, personality disorder*, psychosis,
vertigo; Rare: abnormal electroencephalogram, antisocial reaction,
circumoral paresthesia, coma, delusion, dysarthria, dystonia,
extrapyramidal syndrome, foot drop, hyperesthesia, neuritis,
paralysis, reflexes decreased, reflexes increased, stupor.
Respiratory System---Infrequent: asthma, epistaxis, hiccup
hyperventilation: Rare: apnea, atelectasis, cough decreased,
emphysema, hemoptysis, hypoventilation, hypoxia, larynx edema, lung
edema, pneumothorax, stridor.
Skin and Appendages---Infrequent: acne, alopecia, contact dermatitis,
eczema, maculopapular rash, skin discoloration, skin ulcer,
vesiculobullous rash; Rare: furunculosis, herpes zoster, hirsutism,
petechial rash, psoriasis, purpuric rash, pustular rash, seborrhea.
Special Senses---Frequent: ear pain, taste perversion, tinnitus;
Infrequent: conjunctivitis, dry eyes, hydriasis, photophobia; Rare:
blepharitis, deafness, diplopia, exophthalmos, eye homorrhage,
glaucoma, hyperacusis, iritis, parosmia, scleritis, strabismus, taste
loss, visual field defect.
Urogenital System--Frequency: urinary frequency; Infrequent: abortion,
albuminuria, amenorrhea, anorgasmia, breast enlargement, breast pain,
cystitis, dysuria, female lactation, fibrocystic breast, hematuria,
leukorrhea, menorrhagia, metorrhagia, nocturia, polyuria, urinary
incontinence, urinary retention, urinaryurgency, vaginal hemmorrhagia,
Rare: breast engorgement, glycosuria, hypomenorrhea, kidney pain,
oliguria, priapism, uterine hemmorrhage, uterine fibroids enlarged.
*Personality disorder is the COSTART term for designating
non-aggressive objectional behavior.
Postintroduction Reports: Voluntary reports of adverse events
temporally associated with Prozac that have been received since market
introduction and that may have no causal relationship with the drug
include the following: aplastic anemia, atrial fibrillation, cerebral
vascular accident, cholestatic jaundice, confusion, dyskenesia
(including, for example, a case of buccal-lingual-masticatory syndrome
with involuntary tongue protrusion reported to develop in a 77-year
old female after 5 weeks of fluoxetine therapy and which completely
resolved over the next few months following drug
discontinuation),eosinophilie pneumonia, epidermal necrolysis,
erythema nodosum, exfoliative dermatitis, gynecomastia, heart arrest,
hepatic failure/necrosis, hyperprolactinemia, immune-related hemolytic
anemia, kidney failure, misuse/abuse, movement disorders developing in
patients with risk factors including drugs associated with such events
and worsening of preexisting movement disorders, neuroleptic malignant
syndrome-like events, pancreastitis, pancytopenia, priapism, pulmonary
embolism, QT prolongation, Steven-Johnson syndrome, sudden unexpected
death, suicidal ideation, thrombocytopenia, thrombocytopenic purpura,
vaginal bleeding after drug withdrawal and violent behaviors.
Hyperserotonemia
Hyperserotonemia (elevated serotonin levels) can produce very serious
complications medically, as well as serious neurologic and psychiatric
disorders. Carcinoid syndrome and the serotonin syndrome are two
medical conditions in which elevated serotonin levels are present.
Carcinoid syndrome is a set of symptoms caused by the secretion of
serotonin by carcinoid tumors, prostaglandins, etc. Symptoms include
attacks of severe cyanotic flushing of the skin lasting from minutes
to days, diarrhea, bronchoconstrictive attacks, sudden drops in blood
pressure, edema, and ascites, which is an abnormal accumulation of
serous fluid in the abdominal cavity, also known as abdominal or
peritoneal dropsy. [From PROZAC: PANACEA OR PANDORA?, Pg. 87.]
Serotonin Syndrome
The serotonin syndrome is a hyperserotonergic state which is a very
dangerous and a potentially fatal side effect of serotonergic
enhancing drugs which can have multiple psychiatric and
non-psychiatric symptoms. It is a condition which has been on the rise
since the 1960's when we began using more and more drugs which
directly affect serotonin. This is a toxic condition which requires
heightened clinical awareness in order to prevent, recognize, and
treat the condition promptly. Promptness is vital because, as we just
mentioned, the serotonin syndrome can be fatal and death from this
side effect can come very rapidly. This syndrome is a toxic
hyperserotonergic state whose rate of incidence is unknown, but is on
the rise. The suspected cause of that increase is the introduction of
the new selective serotonergic enhancing agents in clinical practice -
the SSRIs. This disorder, brought on by excessive levels of serotonin,
is difficult to distinguish from the neuroleptic malignant syndrome
because the symptoms are so similar. The neuroleptic malignant
syndrome is a serious condition brought on by the use of the
neuroleptic drugs.
The symptoms of the serotonin syndrome are (from The Serotonin
Syndrome, AM J PSYCHIATRY, June 1991):
Euphoria
Drowsiness
Sustained rapid eye movement
Overreaction of the reflexes
Rapid muscle contraction and relaxation in the ankle causing abnormal
movements of the foot
Clumsiness
Restlessness
Feeling drunk and dizzy
Muscle contraction and relaxation in the jaw
Sweating
Intoxication
Muscle twitching
Rigidity
High body temperature
Mental status changes were frequent (including confusion and hypomania
- a "happy drunk" state)
Shivering
Diarrhea
Loss of consciousness and death.
The serotonin syndrome is generally caused by a combination of two or
more drugs, one of which is often a selective serotonergic medication.
The drugs which we know most frequently contribute to this condition
are the combining of MAOIs with Prozac (this should also include the
other SSRIs) or other drugs that have a powerful effect upon
serotonin, ie., clomipramine (Anafranil), trazadone (Deseryl), etc.
The combination of lithium with these selective serotonergic agents
has been implicated in enhancing the serotonin syndrome. The tricyclic
antidepressants, lithium, MAOIs, SSRIs, ECT (electric shock
treatment), tryptophan, and the serotonin agonists (fenfluramine) all
enhance serotonin neurotransmission and can contribute to this
syndrome. Anything which will raise the level of serotonin can bring
on this hyperserotonergic condition. The optimal treatment for the
serotonin syndrome is discontinuation of the offending medication or
medications, offer supportive measures, and wait for the symptoms to
resolve. If the offending medication is discontinued, the condition
will often resolve on its own within a 24 hour period. If the
medication is not discontinued the condition can progress rapidly to a
more serious state and become fatal. It should be apparent that the
greater the enhancement of serotonin levels, the greater the chances
of producing the serotonin syndrome. Therefore it is recommended that
Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Serzone, etc. not be used concurrently
with each other or any other serotonergic drugs and that these serious
adverse reactions should be expected with these combinations
(Callahan, 1993). [PROZAC: PANACEA OR PANDORA?, p. 88.]
bluemoon
message
> news:cranchingwire-522...@news.west.earthlink.net...
> > In article <ff44fcc7eae68095...@news.teranews.com>,
>
> >
> > And you seriously accuse those of us who are well-served by SSRI's of
> > "mythologizing" and "hyperbole?"
> >
>
> If you wish to meet people who are well served by SSRI's you will have to
> subscribe to alt.support.anxiety.panic and alt.support.trauma-PTSD ng to
> find them.
>
> People with depression are not well served by treatment of depression with
> SSRI's.
>
> The best therapeutic effect which those with depression can hope to obtain
> from SSRI's is an even worse psychiatric disorder, called hypomania or
> bipolar II.
>
> Where SSRI's fail to activate Bipolar II in depression sufferers, SSRI's
> generally activate far worse conditions, paradoxically, even plunging
some
> SSRI's users into psychotic depression.
>
>
> > "Historically?" How are personal success stories about meds
> > "propaganda?"
>
> What success stories are you referring to?
>
> In the 6 years since ASD-med was chartered, ASD-med hasn't had any
posters
> whose MDD was successfully treated by SSRI's.
That's not true. Consider also, most of the people looking for assistance
here, are not happy with the response, they are looking for experiences. I
would guess that most people that have had success with any type of
Anti-Depressant, are probably out living their life.
>
> All ASD-med ever has is posters like yourself posting a lot of hype and
> propaganda mythologizing SSRI's, while simultaneously demonstrating they
> aren't serving the posters posting the hype about them very well.
>
> Read the thousands of posts by LostboyofNC, hyping SSRI's while Lostboy
was
> in in living hell on SSRI's A hell he only got out of by finally
stopping
> the SSRI's and having his depression really treated by MAOI's.
>
>
> >What "legions?"
> When has anybody here ever referred to
> > someone legitimately harmed by a wrong prescription as "collateral
> > damage?"
>
> A newbie, eh?
>
>
>
What you are saying is that YOU didn't have any success with anti-depressant
meds. Your purpose for posting to this group is an 'If momma ain't happy,
ain't nobody gonna be happy' type of thing.
F Troop
> In article <48edb58d963ff5b7...@news.teranews.com>, "F
> Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > People with depression are not well served by treatment of depression
with
> > SSRI's.
>
>
Employing profanity merely because someone expresses a different opinion
then you suggests otherwise.
(1) Profanity altered in quoted text to initials
F Troop
"Nom dePlume" <nomdepl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bk8rh...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> "Sunny" <Su...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:eb3648887ecbea40...@news.teranews.com...
>
>
> > I don't think anyone but lunatics actually believes MDD is a
> chemical
> > imbalance of the brain, in and of itself, separate from some other
> disease
> > process.
>
> Your statement is clearly, unequivocally, absolutely wrong.
Your statement is clearly, unequivocally, absolutely wrong.
Because, as I stated, I do not think anyone but lunatics actually
believes MDD is a chemical imbalance in the brain, in and of itself,
seperate from an underlying physiologically disease process.
F Troop
Your freinds would have been better served by being prescribed a sugar pill.
Placebo's are just as effective as SSRI's in reducing the symptoms of
depression; therefore, any reduction of symptoms of depression in friend
(1) can be summarily dismissed as a placebo effect.
Since you admitted you lost track of freind (2) you really don't know what
her prognosis is.
Unless fate intervened, she's probably on the same road to the dumpster
SSRI's put every other long term SSRI user on, including the most famous
SSRI user of all.
"In 1994, 26-year-old Elizabeth Wurtzel published Prozac Nation and became
the voice of the young and depressed everywhere.
....in her latest book, we discover why: high on success, Wurtzel became a
drug addict, scouring her nasal cavities with cocaine and snorting Ritalin,
the drug usually given to hyperactive children.
"More, Now, Again" follows Wurtzel through addiction, recovery and relapse,
writing in Florida, detoxing in Connecticut and behaving badly in Europe.
Corey
>Because, as I stated, I do not think anyone but lunatics actually
>believes MDD is a chemical imbalance in the brain, in and of itself,
>seperate from an underlying physiologically disease process.
When you make a blanket statement which accuses some of the brightest
and best educated people in the world of being lunatics, a sensible
person has to wonder if you aren't projecting your opinion of yourself
onto others.
F Troop
> I'm betting that between, say, three or four of us treatment
> vets, we could probably come up with a halfway decent amateur diagnosis
>
So, you are one of those veteran mental patients who imagines that *being* a
veteran mental patient has provided you with the expertise to diagnose
psychiatric disorders in others, eh?
Wow, only two days out of lurk mode and I already found me a 'usenut
doKtor'
...gosh, I am good.
F Troop
"Corey" <noe...@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:0e3hmvsq91qi04alt...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:56:29 GMT, "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Because, as I stated, I do not think anyone but lunatics actually
> >believes MDD is a chemical imbalance in the brain, in and of itself,
> >seperate from an underlying physiologically disease process.
>
> When you make a blanket statement which accuses some of the brightest
> and best educated people in the world of being lunatics
Genious and madness go hand in hand.
jake
anyone who who accepts the totally discreddited marketing ploy of
"chemical balance" is neither bright nor educated..unless of course
they are corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry and callously peddle
this nonsense for pay.
Logical Errors in Mental Health
Chemical imbalances cause severe mental disorders (e.g.
schizophrenia), just like a lack of insulin results in diabetes.
This claim is similar to the idea that drugs used to control behavior
proves the condition is biologically caused. On the face, it appears
sound. But, considering that there is no laboratory test to measure
these hypothetical "chemical imbalances". Just where does this idea
come from?
Psychiatrists accidentally discovered neuroleptics could control the
behavior of psychiatric inmates considered psychotic. Later on, it was
found out that these drugs inhibited the action of the
neurotransmitter dopamine. Psychiatrists inferred that schizophrenics
had a chemical excess of dopamine (or too many dopamine receptors).
Later on, scientists found a synthetic drug named L-Dopa induced
bizarre hallucinations and psychotic symptoms in Parkinson's patients.
It was later found out that L-Dopa increases the action of the
neurotransmitter dopamine in the section of the brain called the
substansia nigra. By analogy, psychiatrists declared schizophrenics
suffering from a "chemical imbalance" of dopamine, simply because
their psychosis resembled the drug induced symptoms of Parkinson's
patients. This is the primary support for the much touted "dopamine
theory" of schizophrenia.
First, the doctor has no reason to believe there is actually a
"chemical imbalance" in the brain of a psychiatric patient. A person
may have a perfectly normal brain, yet still exhibit the behaviors in
question. Without any tools that measure the chemical levels, the
claim that there are imbalances is premature. Just as medicine rejects
theories that postulate "energy imbalances" as causes of disease
because it isn't measurable, likewise the "chemical imbalance" model
should not be accepted until psychiatrists 1) define what a "chemical
balance" is, and 2) specify at what level are the chemicals out of
balance. Then, the "chemical imbalance" theory would be testable.
As for the resemblance between drug induced psychosis and
schizophrenia, it is not as simple as it appears. It takes a large
logical leap to suggest simply because two groups look the similar,
they have the same cause. Both a flu virus and an allergic reaction
can cause a runny nose. Yet, these are two very different situations,
requiring different treatments. Appearances can, and often are,
misleading.
Corey
proclaimed:
>Placebo's are just as effective as SSRI's in reducing the symptoms of
>depression; therefore, any reduction of symptoms of depression in friend
>(1) can be summarily dismissed as a placebo effect.
a. Do you have a scientific reference for this seemingly absurd
assertion?
b. Or do you just enjoy lying in order to win arguments?
I'm choosing b.
F Troop
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:36:18 GMT, "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com>
> proclaimed:
>
> >Placebo's are just as effective as SSRI's in reducing the symptoms of
> >depression; therefore, any reduction of symptoms of depression in
friend
> >(1) can be summarily dismissed as a placebo effect.
>
> a. Do you have a scientific reference for this seemingly absurd
> assertion?
Listening to Prozac but Hearing Placebo:
A Meta-Analysis of Antidepressant Medication
http://www.journals.apa.org/prevention/volume1/pre0010002a.html
Robert Lee
<noe...@noemail.com> wrote:
Never mind that the idea of any real "placebo effect" has been pretty
much discredited.
jake
F Troop
The idea of any real anti-depressant effect has been pretty much
discredited.
Antidepressants are a triumph of marketing.
(95% of all serotonin is in your gut, cock and balls, dimwit).
jake
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:36:18 GMT, "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com>
>proclaimed:
>
>>Placebo's are just as effective as SSRI's in reducing the symptoms of
>>depression; therefore, any reduction of symptoms of depression in friend
>>(1) can be summarily dismissed as a placebo effect.
>
>a. Do you have a scientific reference for this seemingly absurd
>assertion?
to lazy to do your own research?
>
>b. Or do you just enjoy lying in order to win arguments?
>
>I'm choosing b.
you can choose to believe the moon is made of green cheese but it
isn't
Corey
From the link above:
"EDITORS' NOTE
The article that follows is a controversial one. It reaches a
controversial conclusion that much of the therapeutic benefit of
antidepressant medications actually derives from placebo responding.
The article reaches this conclusion by utilizing a controversial
statistical approach meta-analysis. And it employs meta-analysis
controversially by meta-analyzing studies that are very heterogeneous
in subject selection criteria, treatments employed, and statistical
methods used. "
If you've ever tried an Anti-depressant, you would know that they are
anything but a placebo. They definitely change the way you feel and
the way you think.
F Troop
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:24:11 GMT, "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Corey" <noe...@noemail.com> wrote in message
> >news:fudhmvch29eu5gar4...@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:36:18 GMT, "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com>
> >> proclaimed:
> >>
> >> >Placebo's are just as effective as SSRI's in reducing the symptoms of
> >> >depression; therefore, any reduction of symptoms of depression in
> >friend
> >> >(1) can be summarily dismissed as a placebo effect.
> >>
> >> a. Do you have a scientific reference for this seemingly absurd
> >> assertion?
> >
> >Listening to Prozac but Hearing Placebo:
> >A Meta-Analysis of Antidepressant Medication
> >
> >http://www.journals.apa.org/prevention/volume1/pre0010002a.html
>
> From the link above:
>
>
> anything but a placebo. They definitely change the way you feel and
> the way you think.
I am well aware the SSRI's are extremely activating, and their side,
adverse and paradoxical effects cause SSRI' user to FEEL different on them
and that increases the placebo effect and their false belief they are doing
something for their depression.
The side effect profile of SSRI is that of a stimulant...not an
antidepressant.
the FDA investigator charged with assessing the clinical data Eli Lilly sent
in for Prozacs approval asked that SSRI be labeled stimulants, but was
overruled by higher ups.
SSRI's are nothing more than "dirty" stimulants, with a lot more side,
adverse and paradoxical effects than properly labeled stimulants.
Nom dePlume
> > Never mind that the idea of any real "placebo effect" has been
pretty
> > much discredited.
>
> The idea of any real anti-depressant effect has been pretty much
> discredited.
>
> Antidepressants are a triumph of marketing.
>
> (95% of all serotonin is in your gut, cock and balls, dimwit).
What a fascinating example of argument through insult: the
next-to-last resort of the incompetent. That you enjoy namecalling and
throwing insults around at people who are a good deal more thoughtful
than you is abundantly clear, however, I am left wondering one thing:
What is your problem?
I am not referring to your rhetorical style, but to your mental
problem. It seems likely that you have one, since you hang out on this
group. What is it? Depression? Bipolar disorder? Psychosis? Borderline
personality disorder? Malignant narcissism? Obsessive-compulsive
disorder?
F Troop
> "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:2cf572b7ff26074f...@news.teranews.com...
>
> > > Never mind that the idea of any real "placebo effect" has been
> pretty
> > > much discredited.
> >
> > The idea of any real anti-depressant effect has been pretty much
> > discredited.
> >
> > Antidepressants are a triumph of marketing.
> >
> > (95% of all serotonin is in your gut, cock and balls, dimwit).
>
> What a fascinating example of argument through insult: the
> next-to-last resort of the incompetent.
What a typical demonstration of your ignorance.
Only 5% of Serotonin is in your brain.
95% of Serotonin is in your digestive, reproductive and other systems.
95% of the effect of SSRI's are negative side effects like sexual
dysfunction, anorgasmia, priapism, complete numbing of vagina and penis,
nausea, change in eating habits, weight gain or loss, cravings for
alchohol etc.
Jacob M. Parnas
person. Many other things could be causing those problems.
Personally, I take much more seriously double blind controlled fairly
large scale studies done by a institution that I respect and feel
is fairly objective without an agenda beforehand.
Jay Cee wrote:
> Hi all,
> Ive been on SSRI’s for about 6 years now. The drugs ranging from
> Zoloft to Paxil (Arropax) through to Remeron (Avanza). Throughout this
> time I’ve noticed that while the depression I was suffering from has
> eased, some rather alarming side effects of the drugs have emerged.
>
> Some of these side effects are:
> *Major short term memory loss
> *Difficulty concentration
> *Difficulty with problem solving
> *Problems with finding the right words in sentences, remembering
> peoples names etc
> *Missing words out whilst typing
> *Difficulty paying attention whilst driving, forgetting street names
> or where I am
> *Feeling like Ive lost my personality, blank, boring.
> *Facial tics (left eye, sometimes the right bicep)
>
> Most of these became evident after the commencement of Paxil, known to
> be one of the most potent SSRI medications on the market.
>
> In light of this I decided to do some research (otherwise known as
> google : ) and found an alarming number of people all reporting the
> same symptoms that am suffering from*.
>
> My question is to those that have used SSRI’s long term (2+ years) who
> have experienced the above listed symptoms.
>
> *** After ceasing the medication, how long did it take before the
> cognitive, memory problems and facial ticks disappeared and you were
> your normal self again? ***
>
> I’m desperate to hear about your stories as I would hate to think that
> myself and others may have sustained permanent brain damage due to
> using such medication!
>
> -------
> *Links:
> http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/000621_prozac_chat.html
> http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/mentalhealth/messages/32097a.html
> http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum_2/DepressionF/6.8.993.03PMSSRIsandMemor.html
>
>
--
Jacob M. Parnas
email: jpa...@comcast.net
kate
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:38:13 GMT, Corey <noe...@noemail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:36:18 GMT, "F Troop" <FTr...@nospam.com>
> >proclaimed:
> >
> >>Placebo's are just as effective as SSRI's in reducing the symptoms of
> >>depression; therefore, any reduction of symptoms of depression in friend
> >>(1) can be summarily dismissed as a placebo effect.
> >
> >a. Do you have a scientific reference for this seemingly absurd
> >assertion?
>
> to lazy to do your own research?
>
I am too lazy to do my own research. Can I see some articles?? Thanks!
kate
> __
>
> "In its recent infatuation with symptomatic, push-button remedies,
> psychiatry has lost its way not only intellectually but spiritually
> and morally. Even when it is not actually doing damage to the people
> it is supposed to help,…it is encouraging among doctors and patients
> alike the fraudulent and dangerous fantasy that life's every passing
> 'symptom' can be clinically diagnosed and, once diagnosed, alleviated
> if not eliminated by pharmacological intervention."
>
> Paul R. McHugh
> Professor of Psychiatry,
> Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
I have to make a comment about this quote. I know its a little off
topic. Anytime I see someone in the medical community considering
himself as having moral and spiritual obligations, I get really
nervous. just my opinion.
Ethics not morals
jake
yeah..I guess people are always better off if their psychiatrist
treats them as a lump of meat..or something to do drug experiments on
Jay Cee
be trying to help each other here!
Anyway, I'm still very eager to know of any stories and expected
time-frames from people who have experienced the SSRI induced cognitive
and memory issues, and who have achieved a full recovery.
Take care all,
-- JayCee
Great
depression.
I have found Brahmi an ancient Indian herb very effective for Depression.
"kate" <day...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:de25454e.03092...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > __
> >
> > "In its recent infatuation with symptomatic, push-button remedies,
> > psychiatry has lost its way not only intellectually but spiritually
> > and morally. Even when it is not actually doing damage to the people
> > it is supposed to help,.it is encouraging among doctors and patients
Jay Cee
SSRI's can effect the cytochrome CYP2D6 in its metabolisis of the SSRI and
other chemical structures, eventually leading to an overutilization /
consumption of CYP2D6 which could possibly lead to neurotoxic effects.
Apparently, this is a complete load of shit :) CYPD2D6 and any other
cytochrome used for the metabolisis of an SSRI can not be completely
exhausted or completely used up. The body continually produces new
cytochrome on demand, and thus SSRI's effecting CYP2D6 in such a way that
may cause neurotoxicity can only be classed as bad science!
-- JayCee
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 07:35:26 +0000, Annie wrote:
> The SSRI's inhibit isoenzyme CYP2D6, necessary for the body to properly
> metabolize and clear many toxic substances.
>
> 8% of the caucasion population is deficient in CYP2D6 and their natural
> deficiency has been assoicated with Parkinson's disorder.
>
> The inhibition of isoenzyme CYP2D6 by SSRI's iatrogenically caused some
> people to become ?CYP2D6 deficient like those genetically deficient.
>
> Without isoenzyme CYP2D6 or upon it's inhibition metabolis and
> clearance of certain toxins doesn't happen...so they are free to do
> permanent damage of the neurological type you speak of.
>
>
> http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s6.html
>
> http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s7.html
>
> http://www.preskorn.com/books/ssri_s8.html
>
>>http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/mentalhealth/messages/32097a.html
>>
> http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum_2/DepressionF/6.8.993.03PMSSRIsandMemor.html
>>
F Troop
"Jay Cee" <nemes...@REMOVEthisBIT.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.09.27....@REMOVEthisBIT.yahoo.com...
> Just wanted to say that I went to my psychiatrist and asked him whether
> SSRI's can effect the cytochrome CYP2D6 in its metabolisis of the SSRI and
> other chemical structures, eventually leading to an overutilization /
> consumption of CYP2D6 which could possibly lead to neurotoxic effects.
>
> Apparently, this is a complete load of shit :) CYPD2D6 and any other
> cytochrome used for the metabolisis of an SSRI can not be completely
> exhausted or completely used up. The body continually produces new
> cytochrome on demand, and thus SSRI's effecting CYP2D6 in such a way that
> may cause neurotoxicity can only be classed as bad science!
>
> -- JayCee
Well, here's another mention of it causing problems.
Drent M, Singh S, Gorgels AP, Hansell DM, Bekers O, Nicholson AG, van
Suylen RJ, du Bois RM.
Department of Respiratory Medicine, University Hospital of Maastricht,
P.O. Box 5800, 6202 AZ Maastricht, The Netherlands. m...@slon.azm.nl
Two cases of interstitial pneumonia with cardiac failure developing in
patients treated with the new antidepressant venlafaxine are
presented. A strong relationship between the development of the
patients' illness and the initiation of venlafaxine treatment was
identified. The cytochrome P (CYP) 450 system is involved in the
metabolism of venlafaxine, suggesting that alterations in the drug
metabolic clearance might be, at least in part, responsible for the
development of drug-induced damage in these cases. This might occur
either as a consequence of a genetic factor or concomitant drug
therapy with an inhibitor of the related CYP system. After identifying
the causative agent in the first case, withdrawal of the
antidepressant together with corticosteroid treatment led to a
favorable outcome. In the other case, the multiorgan failure became
fatal. These cases highlight a hitherto undescribed association of an
adverse lung reaction and heart failure due to venlafaxine.
PMID: 12663337 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: Eur Respir J. 2000 Jan;15(1):205-8. Related Articles, Links
Erratum in:
· Eur Respir J 2000 Mar;15(3):627.
rupert.de...@gmail.com
tinal...@gmail.com
Annie,
I'm a neuroscientist & neuro-epidemiologist turned holistic healer for a happy & healthy brain. I found the posting on CYP enzymes to be fascinating because it confirmed a discovery I had in a client who described a lot of the same brain fog & sluggishness and memory concerns after using an SSRI. I discovered that he had excess free radicals in his system, and I put him on a treatment to enhance glutathione, and he started feeling better in just 3 days! I just thought you'd be interested in some confirmation of your findings.
On Sunday, 14 September 2003 00:36:39 UTC-7, Annie wrote:
> "Jay Cee" <nemes...@TAKEthisOUTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3f61a2fa$0$23585$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
goodh...@gmail.com
we are suppliers OF KETAMINE HCL AND o top shelf grade A++ portion of kush of all strains( CANABIS OIL AFGHAN KUSH JACK HERER ,WHITE WIDOW GIRLS SCOUT GREEN CRACK BLACKBERRY KUSH BANANA KUSH LEMON SKUNK )and many other pharmacuetical meds such as PAIN MEDS KETAMINE MERPHERDRONE LSD MDMA ACTAVIS AND MANY MORE WE DO VERY FAST AND SECURED DELIVERY WITHIN 48 HOURS.WE DO OFFER SAME DAY DELIVERY FOR BUYERS IN CANADA SO CONTACT.( goodhigh10 at gmail dot com )for more info or call or text 540 300 8034
DISCRETE DELIVERY AND PAYPAL ACCEPTED
johnyb...@gmail.com
rikb...@gmail.com
PAYPAL PAYMENTS ACCEPTED
VERY DISCRETE AND RELIABLE OVERNIGHT DELIVERY
ashleyp...@gmail.com
WE ARE TOP QUALITY REGULAR SUPPLIERS OF HIGH QUALITY PHARMACEUTICAL MEDICATIONS AND OTHER DRUGS AT VERY AFFORDABLE PRICES.WE ALSO GOT IN STOCK HIGH QUALITY MEDICAL MARIJUANA STRAINS(GRADE A++) OF VARIOUS KINDS AS WELL AS MANY OTHER RELATED MEDICATIONS UPON DEMAND .WE DO OFFER DISCRETE OVERNIGHT SHIPMENTS TO BUYERS IN USA AND CANADA AND 48 HOURS DELIVERY TO BUYERS IN EUROPE AND ASIA DEPENDING ON YOUR COUNTRY.WE DO PROVIDE TRACKING NUMBERS AS PROOF OF SHIPMENTS SO YOU CAN TRACK YOUR PARCELS ONLINE. SO IF INTERESTED JUST CONTACT US NOW FOR INSTANT RESPONSE at (BORZIA10 at gmail dot com)OR TEXT OR CALL NOW AT (540) 300 8034
PAYPAL AND CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS ACCEPTED
VERY DISCRETE AND RELIABLE OVERNIGHT DELIVERY
KETAMINE CRYSTALS,
KETAMINE VIALS
ACTAVIS POMETHAZINE COUGH SYRUP WITH CODIENE
OXYCOTIN,
ADDERALL,
ACTAVIS,
OPANA,
XANAX,NORCO,
DILUADID,
MATHADONE
PERCOCET
RITALIN
HYDROCODONE
fentanyl brand name: duragesic 5-12 12.5 mcg/hr patches box
Demerol ( Meperidine HCL) caps 8
EPHEDRINE
AMBIEN 10MG
morphine 30MG
WATSON 325 10MG
WATSON 853 10MG
VICODIN 5MG
VICODIN ES 7.5MG
EPHEDRINE 30MG
Celebrex 100mg
Codeine 15mg
Hydrocodone Watson 540 10/ 325
WATSON 540 10/ 500
OXYCOTIN 80MG
OXYCOTIN 20MG, 40MG
HYDROCODONE 10MG/500MG
HYDROCODONE 5MG/500MG
METHADONE 10MG, 40MG WAFERS
Lorcet - ( Hydrocodone Bitartrate/ Acetaminophen) 10 mg/ 650 mg
AMBIEN ( Zolpidem, Stilnox) 10 mg
seconal (chemical name-secobarbital)
LO LOESTRIN FE
ADIPEX-P 37.5MG
VIAGRA 100MG
Lorazepam 2.5 mg ( Ativan)
Clonazepam 2 mg ( Rivotril)
CIALIS 20MG
Percocet 10/ 325
Norco - ( Hydrocodone Bitartrate/ Acetaminophen ) 5 mg/ 325 mg
Percocet 5/ 325
endocet 10/ 325
hydrocodone-ibuprofen (brand name:vicoprofen)
suboxone
subutex
watson 540
Dilaudid 8mg
Soma 350mg
Adderall 30mg
Ritalin 10mg
Tramadol ( Ultram) 50mg
ibrpohen
advil pm
Atarax 25mg
viagra gold
FIORICET (BUTALBITOL 50MG) - MIKART
Hydrocodone 539
Roxicodone 15mg, 30mg
Opana 40mg
CRYSTAL METH
MDMA
LSD,
MERPHEDRONE
COCAINE
DMT
MXE,
MVP,
ECTASY]
Growth Hormones
Ansomone,
Hygetropin,
Kigtropin,
Igtropin IGF,
Jintropin ,
HGH Blue Top,
IGF-1LR3
Anabolic Steroids
10 mg ANABOL
10 mg ANABOL
50 mg Anapolon
5 mg Azolol
5 mg Azolol
10 mg Dianabol
10 mg Dianabol
50 mg Oxymetholone(Anadrol)
5 mg Gen-Shi Halotestin
5 mg GP Anavar
50mg Clomid
benjohn...@gmail.com
legit...@gmail.com
rikb...@gmail.com
Carla...@aol.com
> myself and others may have sustained permanent brain damage due to using
> such medication!
>
> -------
> *Links:
> http://abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/000621_prozac_chat.html
> http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/mentalhealth/messages/32097a.html
> http://neuro-www.mgh.harvard.edu/forum_2/DepressionF/6.8.993.03PMSSRIsandMemor.html
I have been on Zoloft for at least 5 years - maybe more. It seems to be the least poisonous of the group, but I still can't get off it without the same withdrawal symptoms as all the others. It doesn't seem to make me quite as blank and emotionless as the others.
I was an Ativan addict several years ago. It was a stressful withdrawal, but certainly attainable. I do not feel like I suffered brain damage from Ativan, but I am certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I have suffered permanent and quite possibly irreversible brain damage from SSRI use. I have given up even trying to quit it.
I feel like a fool for having been duped into taking the poison in the first place. I worked for a general practitioner who prescribed it for me without a blink of an eye. As I stated earlier, I had 5 good years at the beginning that seemed miraculous. Then the miracle ended and nothing close to it has ever happened since. I continue to take a small dose of Zoloft - not because it helps me, but it keeps me from going through withdrawal.
I have all the things other people have described - memory impairment, particularly with names and word. Emotional flatness, which is not as bad on the low dose of Zoloft as it was on all the others. Pervasive sexual dysfunction, to the point that I don't even want to try anymore. Too frustrating.
I have given up hope of ever getting off these evil drugs. I'm 58 years old and I don't feel like I have enough time left in my life to recover. I feel guilty and ashamed that I am a drug addict.
I know this may not be an OK thing to say on here, but I do feel like I've gotten SOME relief from what I think is permanent brain damage with the use of medicinal marijuana. It has helped to alleviate some of the social anxiety I've experienced as a result of SSRI addiction. It's aided my insomnia issues. (I'm strictly a user of edibles - I don't smoke.)
I've had to come to terms with the fact that I may never get off these drugs. I go through spells of extreme self-loathing because I'm basically a junkie. I know for a fact that my brain is damaged in ways that mere major depressive disorder could never do. I have to live this way the best I can.
Thanks for letting me share my story.
bacha...@gmail.com
OG KUSH
GIRLS SCOUT
BLUE DREAM
LEMON HAZE
LEMON SKUNK
HASH OIL
BANANA KUSH
BLACKBERRY KUSH
AFGHAN KUSH
WHITE WIDOW
BIG BUD
GREEN CRACK
JACK HERER
brit...@gmail.com
Cheers
rikb...@gmail.com
benjohn...@gmail.com
wesleyjo...@gmail.com
benjohn...@gmail.com
bacha...@gmail.com
benjohn...@gmail.com
benjohn...@gmail.com
CONTACT US NOW FOR INSTANT RESPONSE at (BORZIA10 at gmail dot com)OR TEXT OR CALL NOW AT (540) 300 8034
WE ARE TOP QUALITY REGULAR SUPPLIERS OF HIGH QUALITY PHARMACEUTICAL MEDICATIONS AND OTHER DRUGS AT VERY AFFORDABLE PRICES.WE ALSO GOT IN STOCK HIGH QUALITY MEDICAL MARIJUANA STRAINS(GRADE A++) OF VARIOUS KINDS AS WELL AS MANY OTHER RELATED MEDICATIONS UPON DEMAND .WE DO OFFER DISCRETE OVERNIGHT SHIPMENTS TO BUYERS IN USA AND CANADA AND 48 HOURS DELIVERY TO BUYERS IN EUROPE AND ASIA DEPENDING ON YOUR COUNTRY.WE DO PROVIDE TRACKING NUMBERS AS PROOF OF SHIPMENTS SO YOU CAN TRACK YOUR PARCELS ONLINE. SO IF INTERESTED JUST CONTACT US NOW FOR INSTANT RESPONSE at (BORZIA10 at gmail dot com)OR TEXT OR CALL NOW AT (540) 300 8034
PAYPAL AND CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS ACCEPTED
VERY DISCRETE AND RELIABLE OVERNIGHT DELIVERY
BELOW IS A LIST OF OUR PRODUCTS
KETAMINE CRYSTALS,
KETAMINE VIALS
ACTAVIS POMETHAZINE COUGH SYRUP WITH CODIENE
OXYCOTIN,
ADDERALL,
ACTAVIS,
OPANA,
XANAX,NORCO,
DILUADID,
MATHADONE
PERCOCET
RITALIN
HYDROCODONE
bacha...@gmail.com
WE ARE TOP QUALITY REGULAR SUPPLIERS OF HIGH QUALITY PHARMACEUTICAL MEDICATIONS AND OTHER DRUGS AT VERY AFFORDABLE PRICES.WE ALSO GOT IN STOCK HIGH QUALITY MEDICAL MARIJUANA STRAINS(GRADE A++) OF VARIOUS KINDS AS WELL AS MANY OTHER RELATED MEDICATIONS UPON DEMAND .WE DO OFFER DISCRETE OVERNIGHT SHIPMENTS TO BUYERS IN USA AND CANADA AND 48 HOURS DELIVERY TO BUYERS IN EUROPE AND ASIA DEPENDING ON YOUR COUNTRY.WE DO PROVIDE TRACKING NUMBERS AS PROOF OF SHIPMENTS SO YOU CAN TRACK YOUR PARCELS ONLINE. SO IF INTERESTED JUST CONTACT US NOW FOR INSTANT RESPONSE at (BORZIA10 at gmail dot com)OR TEXT OR CALL NOW AT (540) 300 8034
PAYPAL AND CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS ACCEPTED
VERY DISCRETE AND RELIABLE OVERNIGHT DELIVERY
BELOW IS A LIST OF OUR PRODUCTS
KETAMINE CRYSTALS,
KETAMINE VIALS
ACTAVIS POMETHAZINE COUGH SYRUP WITH CODIENE
OXYCOTIN,
ADDERALL,
ACTAVIS,
OPANA,
XANAX,NORCO,
DILUADID,
MATHADONE
PERCOCET
RITALIN
HYDROCODONE
