Linda's 7 years
Mįrcio Longaray
I was thinking exactly about this lately and the whole stuff does make
sense.
Mental disorders are complex, and I'm sorry for the cliché. So those trying
to reduce the whole controversy to a mere pill, as if chemicals were the
key, the saint Graal to all our problems related to the mind by just
reinforcing a couple of neurotransmitters couldn't be more wrong, as
couldn't those trying to neglect a physiologic substrate where emotions,
feelings and cogniscence are founded and pretensioulsy believing to be able
to manage, treat and recover all patients under all circumstances.
Dialectics is in our west-side culture for so long and astonishingly most
people still think as the old greek maniqueists, a 2500 years old
point-of-view.
Like in Eclesiastes, there's a moment for everything. And there's a moment
for medication as there is one for psychoterapy.
The human genoma (the total amount of genes) doesn't specify the whole brain
structure. There aren't sufficient genes to determine the whole brain
structure and the site of everything in the organism, and this is even more
difficult to happen in the brain, where billions of neurons do their
synaptic contacts. The imbalance isn't subtile: we have in the order of 100
thousand genes, but in the order of 10 trillion synapsis in the brain. So
there's a subjective programming, which comes from our individual
experiences along our growing. As an example, amother that stops giving her
brest to a child before the right time, is very possibly distorting many
structures under development. It saounds ridiculous to many people all the
psicologic theories because most people misunderstand psicologists supposing
them to be saying that the child was conscious about the drama; and if they
were saying that, they would actually be very stupid.
But they are saying that a structure in the brain didn't get the
correspondent stimulation at the exact moment as the predecessors' brains
did along the evolution. Same about vision: if brain isn't stimulated by the
optical nerve at its moment, the person won't ever see again, though the
structure is there, healthy, intact. Catched the point?
This child may have eating disorders, anxiety, and many other problems.
Due to different experiences causing different levels of synaptic power in
and outside many neural systems, the experience determines the design of the
circuit. Besides, the synaptic powers may vary along our lives to reflect
the different experiences of the organism, and as a result the design of the
circuits can continously alter. Other circuits won't alter ever.
The brain needs a balance between circuits resistant to modifications and
those which are synaptically as volatile as mercury. Mutiled patients still
feel their lost memebers cold, warm, feel pain, for a long while, but after
some time the brain "revisits" the organism and brings memory up to date.
Studies show that most failed marriages failed about 7 years after marriage,
and this is antropologically supposed to be related to the period needed for
the kids to become (evolutively, refering to primates) more independent.
Possibly.
Anyway, for Pytagoras, the greek Philosopher, 1 was the Reason, 2 the
Opinion, 3 the Male and Power, 4 the Justice... and 7 the secret of HEALTH!
Nature gives us shapeless shapes: clouds, waves and flames. The snakes
changes its skin periodically, the larva becomes a beuatifull butterfly,
love not always remains the same, Jesus rose from the deads.
But I'm just 24 years and I don't feel free exposing such ideas about life
to people who have by far more experience than myself; those who married,
had children, bought a new house, saw the children making new friends in a
new city, saw them leaving home and follow their lives alone, who divorced,
who discovered the value of a mature love, for example.
Though I lived my 24 years as intense as was possible (I always say that I
prefer 10 years 100 miles-hour than 100 years 10 miles-hour), they are just
24.
Anyway I prefer to believe that sooner or later, life is always giving us a
second chance; like U2's last hit Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of It
: "Iit's just a moment, this time will pass". Be it a semester, a decade,
whatever.
You are in the way, Linda!
Your soul (and the soul as said is also the body) is wanting to change and
is asking for hope, so give this wish your brest (got it?) .
I sincerely wish you all serenity and comfidence.
Yours,
Márcio Longaray
Brazil
bobwhelan
"Third Reich" <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010414104418...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> Marcio, I can see that you have degenerated completely, slipping into
> psychosis. Bringing up the ancient Greeks into mental illness is
indicative of
> your slide into psychosis.
>
"Bringing ancient greeks into mental illness? You really dont understand
that your facile view melts under intelligent scrutiny do you?
> LOL Nah, just joking Marcio.
>
> Frankly I dont see how anyone with severe form of mental illness who is
not in
> denial of it can deny these problems are primarily biological in nature,
ie;
> "medical problems." Its just common sense.
Your view is common sense?
The whole crux of the problem is
> medicine just does not understand the brain very much, its kind of a last
> priority of medicine. As is the study of mental illness and what causes it
in a
> biological way.
>
You need an award for question-begging
> Talk therapy is just a cheap replacement for our society's lack of
> understanding of the brain, the central nervous system and how it
interacts
> with our endocrine system.
>
Ridiculous...electroshock and drugging is much cheaper
> Im sorry to see you have slipped into a deep brainfart of digression from
the
> real truth
Is this a religious position?
Do you think you have privelliged access to "real" truth?
in mental illness. The real truth is these problems are major
> medical problems but are in reality often trivialized and treated in
> psycho-babble terms. Very sad, very common and the same old story.
>
> Some day mental illness will have to get priority and so will the
scientific
> study of the brain.
>
You should learn from this young man but I think you are incapable..You
still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited over
a thousand years ago.
Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont like
whats happening in the soap you are watching
> Eric
>
>
> FIDO...Fuck It Drive On
ricy...@iupui.edu
> Ridiculous...electroshock and drugging is much cheaper
I think eric means cheaper in a non finacial way... like cheap in "doesn't
work very well." We all know that talk therapy is expensive.
> Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont like
> whats happening in the soap you are watching
What an excellent analogy (even though I disagree with your viewpoint.)
Look, when you find chemicals that rapidly alter your experience of
dysphoria, you rapidly dismiss all of the psychobabble crap you associated
that dysphoria with previously and come to the inevitable conclusion that
you have some physiological illness.
Andy
Mįrcio Longaray
No, I think what I wrote does make sense.
It's just that I am not that nihilist as you are, and you don't seem to make
any effort to progress as I do. You defend those sitting on a chair and
waiting for paradise to come, what won't ever.
> Frankly I dont see how anyone with severe form of mental illness who is
not in
> denial of it can deny these problems are primarily biological in nature,
ie;
> "medical problems." Its just common sense. The whole crux of the problem
is
> medicine just does not understand the brain very much, its kind of a last
> priority of medicine. As is the study of mental illness and what causes it
in a
> biological way.
Take care with the common sense Eric! Under all aspects.
As I said, Eric, there's time for everything. Inclusively to listen to what
others are saying and reflecting about it prior to rejecting it in a heart
beat.
Did you really read what I wrote? As I said, life always gives us a second
chance, so here it's yours: "(...)as couldn't those trying to neglect a
physiologic substrate where emotions, feelings and cogniscence are founded
and pretensioulsy believing to be able to manage, treat and recover all
patients under all circumstances(...)".
It's not the case of recovering an epiletic with behavioural-cognitive
therapy, it's the case of having the good sense - not your common sense - to
distinguish that both
fields aren't fighting - nor couldn't - once they are complementary and they
have very different functions and limitations.
> Talk therapy is just a cheap replacement for our society's lack of
> understanding of the brain, the central nervous system and how it
interacts
> with our endocrine system.
I dare say you are somehow obtuse, like are many health professionals - and
this is the real problem, not that this field is the last priority in
medicine.
Talk therapy isn't any cheap replacement for anything. There's no
replacement in any imstance.
There are thousands of mediocre pdocs around there, and when a pdoc puts you
in error on a certain med that's evident to be the worst choice for you,
and you know it, what do you do? You change pdoc, don't you? I hope you to
be intelligent enough to perceive when the right stones are being lifted or
not. There are also many stupid psicologists, as there are many
psychiatrists, so it's also the question of choosing somebody competent.
Second, there are different therapies with different approaches and
techniques. Psychoterapy is just one of them.
I'd also like to point out that I have talked to many people for whom it was
evident the need for additional therapy becasue the drugs couldn't build up
a new person, and a fine tuning was lacking. After an improvement and
stabilization with drugs, patients should be attended by a good therapist.
You are wrong Eric, we already know many things about the brain. The 80's
were called the brain's decade.
Unfortunatelly there are problems, mainly the conservativeness of the
medical class. All other professionals have to be up to date with technology
in an eternal feedback loop, doctors are by far inerter. There are many
doctors there prescribing old medications for subtype of disorders they
don't know to exist (supposing to be others), while in many symposiums
studies show that drug X is better. Who knew about rapid-cycling five years
ago?
They are afraid of prescribing specially controlled drugs, they prefer the
try-error method rather than really reflecting about the problem, spending
some minutes searching in a library.
But we already know much of the brain, once again you are just being
nihilist. Try reading some good books, specially "Descartes Error", from
António Damásio (IOWA), "How Mind Works" from Steven Pinker, etc.
You'll see how much we have already developed and how much we already know.
But this knowledge is limited to selected professionals, because of the
inertion of the medical class.
> Im sorry to see you have slipped into a deep brainfart of digression from
the
> real truth in mental illness. The real truth is these problems are major
> medical problems but are in reality often trivialized and treated in
> psycho-babble terms. Very sad, very common and the same old story.
You are banalizing a profession, psicology.
And psicology is kind of a medical science, but deals with the problem with
a different model, more abstract.
But maybe your capability of abstaction is gone and you can't distinguish
things. Possibly.
Besides, I'm not slipping into psychosis.
I'm great, surrounded by my friends, my girlfriend, finishing my major
(electrical engineering), jobbing, having sex, going to the movie, reading,
possibly I get back modelling, talking and listening to people, bodybuilding
again. I know you worry about me, but I feel complete. So don't worry.
> Some day mental illness will have to get priority and so will the
scientific
> study of the brain.
And I hope you don't keep your eyes closed untill then...
Best Wishes,
Márcio
Lunaticmaster
> You should learn from this young man but I think you are incapable..You
> still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
over
> a thousand years ago.
> Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont like
> whats happening in the soap you are watching
>
I do hate to bring this up, but I have to present an argument to that.
it's like interfering with the components in your tv because you don't like
what's happening in the soap you are watching?
so, from that, one could argue that "Treating cancer with drugs is
interfering with your body just because you don't like what it is doing?" or
"Treating a bacterial infection is interferring with your body just because
it is unable to fight of the infection itself?" or "Taking insulin is
interfering with your body just because your immune system has attacked and
killed all of your insulin producing cells?"
I disagree.
Same thing with the brain. Something is going wrong, and it has been proving
in some of the illnesses that blood flow is abnormal, or that there is a
chemical imbalance. there is proof of those things, and more. Yes, for some
people, therapy itself may be enough. That may allow the brain to correct,
or get around, the imbalance, the problems. but, for many, it is not enough,
and for some, it can make it worse.
Therapy is not the only answer, and for some it can be a problem
Drugs can help to create or maintain a balance, or at least enough balance,
to allow the person to function, to think, well. Some may want or need
therapy at that point. others don't.
Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.
So some shrinks get rich off of talk. but they too prescribe drugs. facter
that in. and don't forget that there are those psychiatrists and
psychologists out there that give their services for free. (yes I know
someone is paying for it, but it's not the patient, so it's essentially
free, and no I'm not talking about government only either)
here, want prove of what I'm saying here? fine, I'll give it to you. I
cannot, I will not, contemplate suicide no matter how bad things can
possibly get. I'd rather waste away. Even when I'm depressed, my view on
that is the same. But, a time or 2, there have been thoughts along those
lines, for no reason whatsoever. Why? so if someone talks to me about it,
they'll go away? I think not. something, is causing that.
There will be a breakthrough soon, when they figure out the true causes of
cancers, the reasons that the body attacks itself, Mental illnesses, all of
them, everything. and I bet you it's not genes causing it, but possibly
genes increasing the chances of a person getting them.
They are already figuring out that viruses do cause certain types of cancer.
it's only a matter of time till most make the connection.
could mental illnesses be caused by some sort of pathogen? may be a
protein, Sheep Scrapee, Cow 'mad cow', and human 'cjb' (I think that's what
it is called, don't quote me') are all proteins, not viruses or bacteria.
the protein comes into contact with other protein in the brain, changing the
protein it comes into contact with. I don't know, and most scientists don't
know, but there are those out there that know the truth, whatever it may be,
and they will find it. it's only a matter of time, and until then, All of
those drugs can give many, many, many people more time. more time to enjoy
life, more time to live life, till the true cause is found, till the true
cure is found.
I'm sorry for getting off of the subject some, but I felt that I had to say
everything to explain my point, and to make more people aware of what has
been found in science, and some of the new theories, and some that are old,
but are just now being taken seriously.
bobwhelan
> >Do you think you have privelliged access to "real" truth?
>
years?
> Hell Yeah I think I am privileged to access to the real truth concerning
severe
> mental illness. I experienced it. And I know for a fact that severe forms
of
> mental illness are biological illnesses and not psychological "psycho
babble."
>
Im not sure how the experience of deranged perception gives a priviledged
access to the nature of
reality and a confident knowledge of mind/brain connections.
If you had an open mind your experiences in hospital would have shown the
true horror and wasted lives of people
condemned for years to a barbaric mindnumbing regime.
Did you ever see the back wards?
People do need understanding and to come to terms with the brokeness of
their lives if they are to heal
To objectify them and dismiss their reality..to treat them as simply a piece
of damaged or tainted hardware
that needs a quick technological fix is neither good for them nor conducive
to an understanding of the causes of mental distess.
> Why dont you just admit you are an anti-med scientology guy Bob Whelan?
You are
> about the umpteenth anti-med scientologist type to post on ASDM in the
several
> years Ive been a regular poster to ASDM. You are spottable miles a way and
I
> can always smell your stupid shit its so easy to detect.
Your mindless assumptions and predudice are transparent.
>
>Ive told you before but Ill repeat it..I dont understand your fixation on
scientology..for me they are one of many groups competing to define the
nature of social reality.(as you are)
Personally I have neither the money nor the inclinaction to be audited and
"cleared" by communications with thetans or any other kind of
extra-terrestial beings.
As for anti-med..I am against routine drugging as a method of social
control.
I am in favour of informed consent for long term drugging should people
choose this
I am against the psychiatric drugging of infants and children in all
circumstances except for severe trauma such as torture victims or
child-soldiers etc.
I dont think this is a particular extreme or unusual view.
Your position of supporting pseudo-scientific barbarisms is the extreme one.
> >You should learn from this young man but I think you are incapable..You
> >still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
over
> >a thousand years ago
>
> It was? I am? LOL Wow I thought a thousand years ago people thought mental
> illness was caused by things like demonic possession, witchcraft, "evil
> spirits" and other silly such nonsense. I didnt know a thousand years ago
those
> old timers knew about serotonin, norephinephrine, dopamine and or had even
a
> "Ned the first reader" understanding of the human brain?
>
This is the point Eric.The scientific status of your theory amounts to
precisely a claim that the patient is "possessed"
by"bi-polar disorder" and needs medications to exorcise them
The arrogance of the idea that a person is somehow intellectually superior
to previous generations because they rename and refine theoretical entities
is called the"whig fallacy " if you care to research it which I doubt.
> You are a joke Bob and a scientologist to boot. Just come out and admit
> it...just say it cause we all already know.
>
Back to mindless personal abuse..sigh..
However much you drone on about chemical messengers and physiological
processes that correlate with thought it is not a causal explanation simply
a description. The medical model is only one of many.
The greatest advances are made by interdisciplinary approaches that do not
filter out uncomfortable facts and gaps in knowledge.
Your dogma only supports the involvement and huge financial gains of the
very people you say you disagree with and are incompetent!
The "science" of psychiatry was born precisely at the point where power was
handed to the medical elite from the theological courts.
It was found untenable to suggest that the King of England(George 111) was
possessed by the devil so to neutralise his reforming agenda the doctors
were called in.
You are also ethnocentric..not only "oldtimers" but "primitive" shamans knew
more than us about drug therapies..Many f these drugs are being lost forever
in the lust and greed that is destroying the rain forest and much of the
other natural resources of the planet.
Your very signature,FIDO seems to show what you think about such issues.
You have perhaps a library of knowledge but not enough wisdom to fit in a
shoebox.
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> FIDO...Fuck It Drive On
"A note for dullards..a convincing explanation is not neccessarily true..it
is merely convincing(F.Nietsche)
Bob
bobwhelan
"Lunaticmaster" <fpoo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:by1C6.5556$6R5.3...@news1.atl...
>
> > You should learn from this young man but I think you are incapable..You
> > still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
> over
> > a thousand years ago.
> > Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont
like
> > whats happening in the soap you are watching
> >
>
> I do hate to bring this up, but I have to present an argument to that.
>
> it's like interfering with the components in your tv because you don't
like
> what's happening in the soap you are watching?
>
> so, from that, one could argue that "Treating cancer with drugs is
> interfering with your body just because you don't like what it is doing?"
or
> "Treating a bacterial infection is interferring with your body just
because
> it is unable to fight of the infection itself?" or "Taking insulin is
> interfering with your body just because your immune system has attacked
and
> killed all of your insulin producing cells?"
>
> I disagree.
>
cells.
Pychiatric diagnosis is subjective .Time and time again research has shown
that there can be as many different diagnoses as pdocs diagnosing.
The overt behaviour that is used to diagnose is a sampling of pathological
communication patterns and reports from relatives.
To give a personal and topical example if your computer is trojanized or
virally infected there is little point messing with the hardware when the
cause of the problem is on another continent interfering with the software.
> Same thing with the brain. Something is going wrong, and it has been
proving
> in some of the illnesses that blood flow is abnormal, or that there is a
> chemical imbalance. there is proof of those things, and more.
statistical analysis showed some perfect balance it is still a normative
judgement not scientific.
Indeed most scientists,artists and creative thinkers woukld be drugged to
improve this socalled balance.
Yes, for some
> people, therapy itself may be enough. That may allow the brain to correct,
> or get around, the imbalance, the problems. but, for many, it is not
enough,
> and for some, it can make it worse.
> Therapy is not the only answer, and for some it can be a problem
>
agreed
> Drugs can help to create or maintain a balance, or at least enough
balance,
> to allow the person to function, to think, well. Some may want or need
> therapy at that point. others don't.
>
agreed
> Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.
>
> So some shrinks get rich off of talk. but they too prescribe drugs. facter
> that in.
This is true and is the nod of homage that clinical psychologists give to
their social masters the psychiatrists.
It is absurd to attempt psychoanalytical techniques with a client whose
brain has been chemically disabled.
and don't forget that there are those psychiatrists and
> psychologists out there that give their services for free. (yes I know
> someone is paying for it, but it's not the patient, so it's essentially
> free, and no I'm not talking about government only either)
> The history of psychiatric treatment is one of moral treatments for the
rich and physical treatments for the poor.
A question of the social stratification of services.
> here, want prove of what I'm saying here? fine, I'll give it to you.
I
> cannot, I will not, contemplate suicide no matter how bad things can
> possibly get. I'd rather waste away. Even when I'm depressed, my view on
> that is the same. But, a time or 2, there have been thoughts along those
> lines, for no reason whatsoever. Why? so if someone talks to me about it,
> they'll go away? I think not. something, is causing that.
>
This is true..the breakthrough will come when people realise that the
sociological factors are of equal if not greater importance in engendering
feelings of hopelessness.
> There will be a breakthrough soon, when they figure out the true causes of
> cancers, the reasons that the body attacks itself, Mental illnesses, all
of
> them, everything. and I bet you it's not genes causing it, but possibly
> genes increasing the chances of a person getting them.
>
> They are already figuring out that viruses do cause certain types of
cancer.
> it's only a matter of time till most make the connection.
>The theories seem to change almost daily ..the amount of filth and
pollution pumped into the atmosphere and the sea,water supply etc are
considered by some to contribute.
> could mental illnesses be caused by some sort of pathogen? may be a
> protein, Sheep Scrapee, Cow 'mad cow', and human 'cjb' (I think that's
what
> it is called, don't quote me') are all proteins, not viruses or bacteria.
> the protein comes into contact with other protein in the brain, changing
the
> protein it comes into contact with. I don't know, and most scientists
don't
Neither do I but with the rotting infected carcasses lying all over the UK I
fear we may find out soon enough.The burnings spread it apparently and we
have been told today that special powers are to be used to force Local
Authorities to bury up to 2 million corpses in landfill sites!
> know, but there are those out there that know the truth, whatever it may
be,
> and they will find it. it's only a matter of time, and until then, All of
> those drugs can give many, many, many people more time. more time to enjoy
> life, more time to live life, till the true cause is found, till the true
> cure is found.
>
You clearly feel your meds improve the quality of your life and that is
obviously a good thing.
Many people have their lives destroyed by them however
> I'm sorry for getting off of the subject some, but I felt that I had to
say
> everything to explain my point, and to make more people aware of what has
> been found in science, and some of the new theories, and some that are
old,
> but are just now being taken seriously.
> These are the ones that eric holds in such contempt
>
~alexplore~-
bobwhelan <bobw...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:sZZB6.1988$xA.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
-------------#########:
> Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont like
> whats happening in the soap you are watching
----------- #########
The analogy is brilliant and insightful... sums it up real well...
I'm gonna cop this guy's way of putting it like that too...
And he was a guy that was heavy into medications as well...
See Bob... the pigfuckers of the world will never question their dogma...
and "escape" for the "easy way out" which doesn't work... all that effort...
plus the damage to Children, others, pets... LIFE.... too fucked up they are
indeed...
We should just sell them to the Chinese for dog food... except the meat
would be bad for their dogs...
~alexplore~-
> >Do you think you have privelliged access to "real" truth?
>
years?
> Hell Yeah I think I am privileged to access to the real truth concerning
severe
> mental illness. I experienced it. And I know for a fact that severe forms
of
> mental illness are biological illnesses and not psychological "psycho
babble."
>
You are
> about the umpteenth anti-med scientologist type to post on ASDM in the
several
> years Ive been a regular poster to ASDM. You are spottable miles a way and
I
> can always smell your stupid shit its so easy to detect.
But whose on drugz and all fucked up?
You or him? :)
>
>
> >You should learn from this young man but I think you are incapable..You
> >still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
over
> >a thousand years ago
>
> It was? I am? LOL Wow I thought a thousand years ago people thought mental
> illness was caused by things like demonic possession, witchcraft, "evil
> spirits" and other silly such nonsense. I didnt know a thousand years ago
those
> old timers knew about serotonin, norephinephrine, dopamine and or had even
a
> "Ned the first reader" understanding of the human brain?
Still don't know... do they?
Wanna talk/LIE some more 'bout PET SCANS and other shit, ignorant,
uneducated, stupid asshole? :)
Maybe you can fool *me*?
Or Bob Whelan, et al because he's just a dumb ass foreigner, non-Ukrainian
(like you!)?
>
> You are a joke Bob and a scientologist to boot. Just come out and admit
> it...just say it cause we all already know.
You still using THAT "mental patient party line" shit, you headcase
Prozakian dumb shit?
Maybe you should stick your head into Hannah Elizabeth Shapere's poisonous
cunt like Brian Morasca does?
Ignorant MENTAL PATIENT!
~alexplore~-
YEH!
What Bob Whelan said goes for me, you dum ass, ignorant antiSemitic North
Carolina, tobacco farm living, Pigfucker!
And as YOU posted... you just want drugz and no psychiatry...
... besides talking about wanting guns...
Still talking about "getting rid of the Jews in America", you piece of rude,
uncultured, nasty, vulgar, Ukrainophobic, hatefilled shit?
~alexplore~-
> > still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
> over
> > a thousand years ago.
> > Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont
like
> > whats happening in the soap you are watching
> >
>
> I do hate to bring this up, but I have to present an argument to that.
>
> it's like interfering with the components in your tv because you don't
like
> what's happening in the soap you are watching?
>
> so, from that, one could argue that "Treating cancer with drugs is
> interfering with your body just because you don't like what it is doing?"
or
> "Treating a bacterial infection is interferring with your body just
because
> it is unable to fight of the infection itself?"
HUH?
How's that make sense or follow?!
> or "Taking insulin is
> interfering with your body just because your immune system has attacked
and
> killed all of your insulin producing cells?"
HUH?
How's that make sense or follow?!
>
> I disagree.
Obviously.... for you have ALREADY SHOWN YOU CAN NOT THINK CLEARLY AS
WITNESSED BY YOUR MENTALLY ILL "LOGIC".
> Same thing with the brain.
HUH?
How's that make sense or follow?!
> Something is going wrong,
AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, DO YOU, YOU STUPID FUCK, RIGHT?
> and it has been proving
> in some of the illnesses that blood flow is abnormal,
HUH?
How's that make sense or follow?!
> or that there is a
> chemical imbalance.
WHAT "chemical imbalance" IS THERE? :)
WHAT PROOF OR EVIDENCE IS THERE FOR SUCH, BESIDES MENTAL CASES SAYING THAT
ALL THE TIME? :)
IS THAT WHY YOU HAD YOUR "CHEMICAL IMBALANCES" CHECKED FOR WHEN YOU GOT
PSYCHOTROPHIC MEDICATIONS? :)
AND WHAT WERE THE "READINGS" FROM YOUR "CHEMICAL IMBALANCES" EH, ASSHOLE? :)
> there is proof of those things, and more.
WHERE IS IT THEN? :)
I NEVER "SEE SUCH" BESIDES THOSE WITH MENTALLY ILL MOUTHS SAYING SUCH
SHIT... SHOW IT, MENTAL CASE!
> Yes, for some
> people, therapy itself may be enough. That may allow the brain to correct,
> or get around, the imbalance,
WHAT "imbalance" IS THAT AGAIN, MENTAL CASE? :)
> the problems. but, for many, it is not enough,
> and for some, it can make it worse.
HUH?
ARE YOU CRAZY OR SOMETHING?!
> Therapy is not the only answer, and for some it can be a problem
ARE YOU MENTALLY DEFECTIVE BESIDES BEING PLAIN IGNORANT AND STUPID?
>
> Drugs can help to create or maintain a balance, or at least enough
balance,
WHAT "BALANCE" YOU IGNORANT, INSANE, UNEDUCATED, CRAZY, STUPID FUCK?
> to allow the person to function, to think, well. Some may want or need
> therapy at that point. others don't.
>
> Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.
THAT'S RIGHT, MENTAL CASE!
SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!
>
> So some shrinks get rich off of talk. but they too prescribe drugs. facter
> that in. and don't forget that there are those psychiatrists and
> psychologists out there that give their services for free. (yes I know
> someone is paying for it, but it's not the patient, so it's essentially
> free, and no I'm not talking about government only either)
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK YOU JUST SAID..
> here, want prove of what I'm saying here?
YES.
> fine, I'll give it to you. I
> cannot, I will not, contemplate suicide no matter how bad things can
> possibly get. I'd rather waste away. Even when I'm depressed, my view on
> that is the same. But, a time or 2, there have been thoughts along those
> lines, for no reason whatsoever. Why? so if someone talks to me about it,
> they'll go away? I think not. something, is causing that.
HUH?
HEY SHIT BRAIN!
WHERE'S THE "proof" YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT?
THE FUCK DID YOU JUST SAY, YOU MENTAL CASE?
SHUT THE FUCK UP!
YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL!
YOU ARE DEFECTIVE! A PIECE OF SHIT!
YOU SHOULD *PAY* ME FOR TELLING YOU THAT, BECAUSE YOU ARE _TOO FUCKING
STUPID AND CRAZY_ TO KNOW THAT!
"P'TFU!"
I SPIT IN YOUR MENTALLY ILL, EVIL FACE!
~alexplore~-
Márcio Longaray <long...@vortex.ufrgs.br> wrote in message
news:_r0C6.884$ph....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
In other words, dick, brain, mind, YOU have, and he has lost...
but he "knows" you are wrong, eh? :)
And YOU have done the same drugs, and MORE then Eric, the pigfucker has...
Hmm... you learned... he did not...
You began to think and do things differently, the pigfucker did not... you
now are better... the pigfucker is still doing the same shit he has...
And you are more intelligent then he is, but he the ignorant mental case,
says you are wrong...
Is there something wrong here?
>
> > Some day mental illness will have to get priority and so will the
> scientific
> > study of the brain.
>
> And I hope you don't keep your eyes closed untill then...
of course he will, you foreign devil!
I also WANT Eric to keep doing the same things he has been doing... I WANT
that piece of shit to keep doing what he is doing... That CHILD ABUSER
deserves it!
It is the WILL OF GOD that he remain like this and stay the same!
GOD IS JUST!
HE, IN HIS INFINITIE WISDOM, PUNISHES CHILD ABUSERS AND PIGFUCKERS AND
BISEXUALS!
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Márcio
>
>
>
>
bobwhelan
> >to be audited and
> >"cleared" by communications with thetans or any other kind of
> >extra-terrestial beings.
> >As for anti-med..I am against routine drugging as a method of social
> >control.
>
> scientologist here dont we Bob?
>
>
No Eric you have someone who has studied cults and their ideologies.
I have also studied tibetan buddhism but Im not a buddist.
Ive read Mein Kampf but Im not a nazi.
Ive studied Das Kapital but Im not a communist
etc..ect..
Im not an anythingist.
> >Your position of supporting pseudo-scientific barbarisms is the extreme
one.
>
> Youve been brainwashed Bob.
> Ive studied chinese methods of thought reform and
interrogation and brainwashing techniques but Im neither brainwashed nor
chinese
> >
> >> >You should learn from this young man but I think you are
incapable..You
> >> >still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
> >over
> >> >a thousand years ago
>
> Told you Bob, they got you brainwashed bad.
>
Do you really think you are superior to Plato for example or Socrates?
>
> >This is the point Eric.The scientific status of your theory amounts to
> >precisely a claim that the patient is "possessed"
> >by"bi-polar disorder" and needs medications to exorcise them
>
> That is not what I said asshole. I didnt say anybody is "possessed" by
bipolar
> disorder and needs meds to exorcise them.
I said thats the status of your theory..of course you dont realise the
implications of your propaganda or you wouldnt be asserting it.
LOL Damn you are fucked up in the
> head Bob. When did I say anything like that Bob? Just by the things you
say
> gives you away you are a follower of scientology.
>
You seem to have scientology on the brain.
> Its also obvious you are severely brainwashed Bob.
>
> Bob, I told you before and I will tell you again. I dont agree with
everything
> in psychiatry. But I think people like yourself
You seem to have a strange and distorted view of me
are even worse because you are
> totally in denial and are totally against all psych meds and
I thought Id made it pretty clear Im not totally against all psychiatric
medication.I believe I used the expression with"informed consent".
refuse to even
> exist mental illness exists.
Dont be silly..I have spent years helping mental patients.
You are nothing but a brainwashed zombie who has
> lost your ability to think for yourself. My ideas I came up strictly on
my
> own. Your ideas by contrast, were given to you by the "church" of
scientology.
>
Ironically brainwashing tecniques like the enless repetion of absurdities
like "you are a scientologist" seem to be your forte.
A lie is a lie no matter how many times you repeat it.
> If you are going to come on here and preach against meds, you could at
least
> cover yourself better and not give yourself away by using words like
"thetans"
> and "extra terrestrial" beings. LOL You are a fucking scientologist for
sure.
>
The point (totally missed) is that I consider such a metaphysical backdrop
as absurd and untenable as any other superstition.
Unlike you,however, I am tolerant of others belief-systems.
> You are an idiot Bob.
> This may or may not be true
but I dont have knee-jerk reactions to words like "scientology"
Have you had bad experiences with them?
Ive always thought of them as a kind of sideshow but you seem to think they
are kind of central.Maybe its an american thing..
Lunaticmaster
then you have 2 problems. (yes, it can flash your bios, rendering the
computer nearly inoperable, unless you know what your doing)
So, something causes damage to the hardware, you need to repair that
hardware, but you also need to get rid of the cause. Same thing with mental
illnesses.
I can write computer viruses, although I have yet to make one, and no plans,
except maybe for my own personal experimentation, basically to prove that I
can do something, I can fix/replace hardware that screws up, I can tell you
when that computer is likely a paperweight. But, I encounter new problems
all the time, and have to guess on how to fix it, because I don't
necessarily know what's wrong. and there are many times when it is the
operating system, (windows) that is the problem.
here, we'll set up an analogy using a computer.
Bios is the basic functions.
hardware your body, processor your brain.
Windows is you, (whether you believe in a soul or not, it is still
essentially you)
you turn on power (wake up), bios checks and makes sure everything is there,
checks for anything new, initializes hardware, makes sure everything is
working, finds a bootable drive, loads windows(fully awaken), windows loads
everything it needs right now (remembering who you are, etc... remembering
previous things, especially the night before), but one of the programs
(thoughts, emotions, etc.) crash, leaving a faulty code in memory, which can
cause more problems later. another program crashes due to that error,
creating more errors, and locking up more memory not allowing other programs
to access that memory. it leads to a cascade (depression, for example) which
can trigger a program that looks for errors (there is something in the brain
for that, has to be) and stops other programs from executing.
may be hard to believe, but nothing was wrong with windows. a problem with
the processor, a simple transistor (neuron) positioned wrong, sending out
incorrect messages (chemicals), other transistors, circuits receive those
messages, and act on them, not knowing they are wrong, which eventually can
lead to serious problems with the program (maybe a thought, or feeling that
should not be), causing it to crash, and taking windows down with it. those
protection programs can catch those errors, and cease that programs
functioning, but if it isn't loaded (working properly) it can't catch
errors, allowing problems to run rampant (bringing you down if you have
depression, for example)
if there is a problem with a processor, you usually just replace it, can't
do that with the brain. you have to work on it, fixing that 'transistor' but
since we can't do that yet, have to correct the messages that it sends out.
A patch (drugs) to windows and/or the programs can compensate for that
error, allowing the programs to function without errors, or at least fewer
errors, and quite likely less severe errors. Yes there are side effects.
patch windows or a program, and it can cause other problems (side effects)
but unless those problems are bad, it is generally worth patching. but you
have to get the right patch (right drug) because one for a problem with a
different transistor (anxiety, for example) probably won't work for the
transistor out of place here (depression for example) but then again, it
might. maybe those 2 transistors are connected, so that it doesn't matter
which is messed up, the error is still sent out to the same place. so that
multiple patches(drugs), that react differently, still can affect the
problem.
I tried to make that make sense.
> > Same thing with the brain. Something is going wrong, and it has been
> proving
> > in some of the illnesses that blood flow is abnormal, or that there is a
> > chemical imbalance. there is proof of those things, and more.
> a dangerous assumption. The "correct" balance is a myth and even if a
> statistical analysis showed some perfect balance it is still a normative
> judgement not scientific.
> Indeed most scientists,artists and creative thinkers woukld be drugged to
> improve this socalled balance.
"correct" balance is a myth? perfect balance? there is no perfect
balance, there are many different ones, but if everyone that has
schizophrenia has the exact same areas with increased blood flow, and the
same other areas with less, and people who don't have it, have much much
closer to the average for those areas, then 'something' is odd. what is
triggering that blood flow, the blood flow, or what is causing it, could
very well be causing, or at least affecting the schizophrenia somehow.
people with depression generally have different levels of serotonin than the
average for everyone else.
Yes, each person's brain is going to be different
but each persons heart is almost always on the left side, right? almost
every person has 5 fingers on each hand, and 5 toes on each foot, right?
most have 2 feet, and 2 legs, and 2 eyes, 2 hands, 2 arms, 1 nose, 1 mouth,
2 ears, hair on top of the head,
that, and it's positions, are decided by genes. your eyes are not on the
back of your head, right? that's because genes dictate it should be on the
front, that you should have an ear on each side of your head, generally in
the same place for each person. Yes there are slightly different positions
for them to be in, but they are generally in the same place. Internal organs
are generally in the same place. your intestines are not in your leg,
right? nor your head? spinal cord goes down your back. if anything is
positioned differently, you couldn't function the same, if you could
function at all.
for a number of women, cells from the uterus attach themselves to other
parts of the body, and react the same way, causing cramps, pain, etc...
is talking going to fix any of those problems, or correct the positioning of
organs? No.
will drugs? for some things, yes, for others, they require surgery.
> > Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.
> >
> > So some shrinks get rich off of talk. but they too prescribe drugs.
facter
> > that in.
> This is true and is the nod of homage that clinical psychologists give to
> their social masters the psychiatrists.
> It is absurd to attempt psychoanalytical techniques with a client whose
> brain has been chemically disabled.
chemically disabled? increasing serotonin levels is disabling a brain? so
lowering would be too? so, according to what your saying, and what I am i
nferring here, your saying someone with depression has a brain chemically
disabled.....
so drugs would be needed to get the brain closer to a chemical balance. if
the brain is not chemically balanced, it is unable to function properly.
Yes, that balance can very well be different for different people, but there
HAS to be a balance. you can't have 5 times or 1/4 the serotonin levels than
most other people and not expect 'something' to be different.
>
> and don't forget that there are those psychiatrists and
> > psychologists out there that give their services for free. (yes I know
> > someone is paying for it, but it's not the patient, so it's essentially
> > free, and no I'm not talking about government only either)
> >
>The history of psychiatric treatment is one of moral treatments for the
> rich and physical treatments for the poor.
> A question of the social stratification of services.
odd, many poor have more morals than many of the rich. I know that isn't
exactly what you meant, but it's still a fact.
Here's something else. The artists, (music, painting, etc...) are able to
make tons of money, but at least some of that inspiration comes from mania,
depression, etc.. and they take drugs to ease it. Yes, they take illegal
drugs, many do overdose, at some point, but if they are getting 'moral
treatments' it obviously isn't working.
'physical treatments' do make many people feel better, and allow them to
function.
yes there are those that are given the wrong drugs, and/or misdiagnosed,
because their doctors are uninformed of newer drugs, newer findings, etc..
others are denied certain drugs because their insurance won't cover it, but
there are a few doctors who don't give a damn.
That cannot be helped, though. there are people like that everywhere.
>
>
>
> > here, want prove of what I'm saying here? fine, I'll give it to you.
> I
> > cannot, I will not, contemplate suicide no matter how bad things can
> > possibly get. I'd rather waste away. Even when I'm depressed, my view on
> > that is the same. But, a time or 2, there have been thoughts along those
> > lines, for no reason whatsoever. Why? so if someone talks to me about
it,
> > they'll go away? I think not. something, is causing that.
> >
> This is true..the breakthrough will come when people realise that the
> sociological factors are of equal if not greater importance in engendering
> feelings of hopelessness.
maybe equal, maybe not. but NOT greater, it is possible that due to the
way I was treated in school, ignored most everyone, at least partially
aloof, (hey, a capricorn is supposed to be aloof) did not help, crying over
petty things when younger. about the only times that I don't remember
crying over little things was from 7th to 12th grades, but that also was the
time I was ignoring most everyone, determined to be aloof, so as not to give
them any ammunition. but it catches up, eventually. but what caused me to
react that way in the first place? what caused, and causes the feeling down,
crying over little or no real reason. a song says something, and can't help
but start crying.
usually, I can hide it when I'm around people, of course, then I've got my
mind focused on something, just like I do now. I have felt down since I got
off of the phone with my gf, and this is giving me something to do.
now that I think about it, there were things that did set me off during that
time. so I have dealt with it all this time. recently it is much worse,
though.
> > There will be a breakthrough soon, when they figure out the true causes
of
> > cancers, the reasons that the body attacks itself, Mental illnesses, all
> of
> > them, everything. and I bet you it's not genes causing it, but possibly
> > genes increasing the chances of a person getting them.
> >
> > They are already figuring out that viruses do cause certain types of
> cancer.
> > it's only a matter of time till most make the connection.
>The theories seem to change almost daily ..the amount of filth and
> pollution pumped into the atmosphere and the sea,water supply etc are
> considered by some to contribute.
>
many of the things I've said are theories that have been around, just not
accepted before, and not heard of by many people, it was only chance that I
heard of it myself, and I do see how it is possible for viruses, bacteria,
prions (protein) to all cause diseases, that is currently thought to be
caused by the immune system suddenly attacking itself, or cancer, etc...
maybe a bacteria is disguising itself as an insulin cell, and immune system
suddenly realizes there are bacteria there, attacks the the bacteria in
insulin clothing.
and the true insulin cells
> > could mental illnesses be caused by some sort of pathogen? may be a
> > protein, Sheep Scrapee, Cow 'mad cow', and human 'cjb' (I think that's
> what
> > it is called, don't quote me') are all proteins, not viruses or
bacteria.
> > the protein comes into contact with other protein in the brain, changing
> the
> > protein it comes into contact with. I don't know, and most scientists
> don't
>
> Neither do I but with the rotting infected carcasses lying all over the UK
I
> fear we may find out soon enough.The burnings spread it apparently and we
> have been told today that special powers are to be used to force Local
> Authorities to bury up to 2 million corpses in landfill sites!
burning spread it apparently? hmmm, I would believe that the prion(protein
pathogens) would be destroyed by intense heat (although cooking does not)
or even if it did get into the air, and survive, would the lungs take it in,
spread it to the blood, and subsequently to the brain? I wouldn't really
think it likely that a person would get enough that way, since it takes a
high dose to cross the species barrier, even if the protein is absorbed by
the lungs, even if it is not damaged by the heat.
scrapee, 'mad cow', cjb and cjb caused by 'mad cow', are all proteins. they
cause 'holes' to form in the brain. it is possible that other proteins
can cause other types of diseases, possibly ones currently thought to be
caused by gene defects, or poor health, that just might make a person more
susceptible.
but besides that, it takes quite a bit of the prion to cross the species
barrier, although, to infect another cow, it takes less than a teaspoon of
infected cow brain to kill that cow. and prions remain virulent even when
buried for many years.
>
> > know, but there are those out there that know the truth, whatever it may
> be,
> > and they will find it. it's only a matter of time, and until then, All
of
> > those drugs can give many, many, many people more time. more time to
enjoy
> > life, more time to live life, till the true cause is found, till the
true
> > cure is found.
> >
> You clearly feel your meds improve the quality of your life and that is
> obviously a good thing.
> Many people have their lives destroyed by them however
I am not currently on any meds. and i haven't. but I do believe I need
something. but I have to wait for the insurance to change, (new plan takes
affect july 1) because no doctors are nearby accepting the old plan. and I
have no way to get there.
besides, probably have more prove that I have depression by then, anyways.
if they are not prescribed the correct drugs for their condition, not warned
of side effects, not reporting side effects, not given the correct dosage.
they can have serious problems.
>
> > I'm sorry for getting off of the subject some, but I felt that I had to
> say
> > everything to explain my point, and to make more people aware of what
has
> > been found in science, and some of the new theories, and some that are
> old,
> > but are just now being taken seriously.
> These are the ones that eric holds in such contempt
Back in the 1880s, before tuberculosis had a known cause, experts attributed
it to a combination of risk factors-things like depression, bad ventilation,
insufficient food and "family predisposition." One standard textbook noted
expansively that "the idea of infection being a cause... still prevails in
the South of Europe."
FAST-FORWARD TO the 1980s, and you hear similar accounts of peptic ulcers.
The highly touted risk factors were stress, smoking, alcohol and, of course,
"genetic predisposition." Never mind that an Australian researcher named
Barry Marshall was successfully giving himself ulcers by swilling beakers of
bacteria-and curing them with antibiotics. The textbooks didn't even mention
his work.
We now know that TB and ulcers are infectious conditions, caused by specific
microbes and treatable with antimicrobial drugs. Yet we're still laboring to
explain most of our leading scourges-cancer, heart disease, mental illness,
Alzheimer's-with long lists of risk factors. In a compelling new book titled
"Plague Time" (282 pages. Free Press. $25), Amherst College biologist Paul
Ewald argues that we're missing an obvious lesson here. Roughly translated:
It's the germs, stupid. Though genes and lifestyle are no doubt important,
Ewald says, the primary causes of today's "slow-burning plagues" are
parasites-viruses, bacteria and other infectious microbes-whose long-term
effects we have simply failed to recognize.
sound familiar? I could send you the rest, but I don't want to make this
any longer than it already is.
Lunaticmaster
> This is the point Eric.The scientific status of your theory amounts to
> precisely a claim that the patient is "possessed"
> by"bi-polar disorder" and needs medications to exorcise them
so someone who is bipolar should not be on medication???
someone who is bipolar is more likely to commit suicide. that change from
mania to depression is too much for most to handle.
if they shouldn't be on medication, what do they need? what is going to
stop them from committing suicide? it doesn't matter if they have someone
who truly loves them, it doesn't matter if they have people they can talk
to. it still happens. a shrink isn't going to help by getting them to talk.
depression hits, suicide is more likely than with someone who just has
depression. and I believe it is worse for a rapid cycler.
explain your point of view.
> The arrogance of the idea that a person is somehow intellectually superior
> to previous generations because they rename and refine theoretical
entities
> is called the"whig fallacy " if you care to research it which I doubt.
maybe that is true, but you seem to me to be arrogant in your point of view.
I am willing to change mine, I have. I will be the first to tell you I don't
know everything, and never will. no matter how much I want to know
everything.
Chris Hedley
"bobwhelan" <bobw...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> "Lunaticmaster" <fpoo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:by1C6.5556$6R5.3...@news1.atl...
>> protein, Sheep Scrapee, Cow 'mad cow', and human 'cjb' (I think that's
> what
>> it is called, don't quote me') are all proteins, not viruses or bacteria.
>> the protein comes into contact with other protein in the brain, changing
> the
>> protein it comes into contact with. I don't know, and most scientists
> don't
>
> Neither do I but with the rotting infected carcasses lying all over the UK I
> fear we may find out soon enough.The burnings spread it apparently and we
> have been told today that special powers are to be used to force Local
> Authorities to bury up to 2 million corpses in landfill sites!
It's rather dishonest to imply that the carcasses in question are linked
with the BSE problem when in fact they're as a result of the foot & mouth
outbreak. You know perfectly well that they're entirely separate things,
nothing to do with the BSE/CJD stuff mentioned in the bit you quoted.
Just thought I should point out the misleading nature of your post for
the benefit of our international readers.
Chris.
~alexplore~-
Shy DIE <agen...@hotmale.comHOLDdaSPAM> wrote in message
news:MPG.154282ea7...@pita.alt.net...
> something...anything... to distract your pitiful redundant posts so as to
> leave the rest of us the hell alone you off balanced freak!
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I follow my course with the precision and security
> of a sleepwalker.
>
> ~A. Schicklgruber
Lunaticmaster
too, are the causes of many illnesses.
it is not in the bodies best interests (or minds) to want, or even consider
suicide, but yet when someone is depressed that is likely to occur
(considering it)
but it can be in the virus and bacteria's best interests to trigger those
types of things.
I think I have heard of Borna being linked with it, but I did not know of
lyme disease.... I need to be looking into that more, then. considering
where I live.
I HATE TICKS.
there was a story a while back on msn news (at least on the website, I saved
the article) titled "The Real Hot Zone"
and I recently saw again on one of the stations (think it was pbs) about
them finding a specific virus in Breast Cancer. before, they thought it was
relatively harmless, but they found it every time they checked. if it was
malignant, it had the virus within it.
Lunaticmaster
they
> are kind of central.Maybe its an american thing..
explain what you mean by that.
Lunaticmaster
incapable..You
> > > still havent got the point that your simplistic theory was discredited
> > over
> > > a thousand years ago.
> > > Its like iterfering with the components in your TV because youy dont
> like
> > > whats happening in the soap you are watching
> > >
> >
> > I do hate to bring this up, but I have to present an argument to that.
> >
> > it's like interfering with the components in your tv because you don't
> like
> > what's happening in the soap you are watching?
> >
>
> > so, from that, one could argue that "Treating cancer with drugs is
> > interfering with your body just because you don't like what it is
doing?"
> or
> > "Treating a bacterial infection is interferring with your body just
> because
> > it is unable to fight of the infection itself?"
>
> HUH?
>
> How's that make sense or follow?!
confused? YOU ALWAYS ARE. so no surprise there. at least 'Bob' can
understand
>
> > or "Taking insulin is
> > interfering with your body just because your immune system has attacked
> and
> > killed all of your insulin producing cells?"
>
> HUH?
>
> How's that make sense or follow?!
look, confused again.
>
> Obviously.... for you have ALREADY SHOWN YOU CAN NOT THINK CLEARLY AS
> WITNESSED BY YOUR MENTALLY ILL "LOGIC".
Mentally ill "Logic"?? LMAO, your the one who has screwed up logic
can't even understand my arguments with Bob. He stated something, I
inferred an interpretation, and you can't understand it? I'm not surprised
> > Same thing with the brain.
> HUH?
> How's that make sense or follow?!
>
> > Something is going wrong,
>
> AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, DO YOU, YOU STUPID FUCK, RIGHT?
and you think you do? Who do you think you Are? God? Your no god
they have found that bacteria and viruses can cause illness, including
mental illnesses, since they affect the brain.
but you don't care. you just want to sit there, curse, and be an ass. well,
I'll curse with you. well, I should say at you.
> > and it has been proving
> > in some of the illnesses that blood flow is abnormal,
>
> HUH?
> How's that make sense or follow?!
see, your confused AGAIN. can't follow shit, can you?
I'm tired of your shit, as much as you can dish out, you will get in return.
>
> > or that there is a
> > chemical imbalance.
>
> WHAT "chemical imbalance" IS THERE? :)
> WHAT PROOF OR EVIDENCE IS THERE FOR SUCH, BESIDES MENTAL CASES SAYING THAT
> ALL THE TIME? :)
There is proof, your just too fucking lazy to look.
>
> IS THAT WHY YOU HAD YOUR "CHEMICAL IMBALANCES" CHECKED FOR WHEN YOU GOT
> PSYCHOTROPHIC MEDICATIONS? :)
HEY, DUMBASS, I'm not taking any meds, but obviously, you should be.
I've seen the proof, it is there, you just don't want to believe.
>
> AND WHAT WERE THE "READINGS" FROM YOUR "CHEMICAL IMBALANCES" EH, ASSHOLE?
:)
I'll say it yet again, you are the one with an imbalance, if not chemical,
IT SURE AS HELL IS IN YOUR MIND.
I have seen the most fucked up logic coming from you.
>
> > there is proof of those things, and more.
>
> WHERE IS IT THEN? :)
> I NEVER "SEE SUCH" BESIDES THOSE WITH MENTALLY ILL MOUTHS SAYING SUCH
> SHIT... SHOW IT, MENTAL CASE!
that's because you won't open your eyes and look at it when it is right in
front of your face. and when you do, you refuse to believe it, saying that
they are just a mental case.
out of curiousity, Are you related to napolean or hitler?
>
> > Yes, for some
> > people, therapy itself may be enough. That may allow the brain to
correct,
> > or get around, the imbalance,
>
> WHAT "imbalance" IS THAT AGAIN, MENTAL CASE? :)
the one that you refuse to look at.
>
> > the problems. but, for many, it is not enough,
> > and for some, it can make it worse.
>
> HUH?
> ARE YOU CRAZY OR SOMETHING?!
no, obviously you are.
>
> > Therapy is not the only answer, and for some it can be a problem
>
> ARE YOU MENTALLY DEFECTIVE BESIDES BEING PLAIN IGNORANT AND STUPID?
Anything that can answer can also be a problem.
it isn't my fault your brain is too puny, (if you even have one) to
understand simple logic
>
> >
> > Drugs can help to create or maintain a balance, or at least enough
> balance,
>
> WHAT "BALANCE" YOU IGNORANT, INSANE, UNEDUCATED, CRAZY, STUPID FUCK?
obviously, you are uneducated, or blind as hell. I rarely tolerate such
cursing and namecalling from anyone, and especially from someone that I do
not like. so, are you that little 12 year old bully on the school
playground? about time someone kicks the hell out of your ass
>
> > to allow the person to function, to think, well. Some may want or need
> > therapy at that point. others don't.
> >
> > Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.
>
> THAT'S RIGHT, MENTAL CASE!
yes, you talk, but do absolutely nothing
>
> SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!
your the one always with your mouth open, always cynical, always bitching.
>
> >
> > So some shrinks get rich off of talk. but they too prescribe drugs.
facter
> > that in. and don't forget that there are those psychiatrists and
> > psychologists out there that give their services for free. (yes I know
> > someone is paying for it, but it's not the patient, so it's essentially
> > free, and no I'm not talking about government only either)
>
> I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK YOU JUST SAID..
that's because you can't understand shit. 'Bob' understands, at least
half-ass understands, and that's who I was arguing with,
>
> > here, want prove of what I'm saying here?
>
> YES.
>
> > fine, I'll give it to you. I
> > cannot, I will not, contemplate suicide no matter how bad things can
> > possibly get. I'd rather waste away. Even when I'm depressed, my view on
> > that is the same. But, a time or 2, there have been thoughts along those
> > lines, for no reason whatsoever. Why? so if someone talks to me about
it,
> > they'll go away? I think not. something, is causing that.
>
> HUH?
>
> HEY SHIT BRAIN!
>
> WHERE'S THE "proof" YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT?
you don't give a shit about any proof, even if it is shoved in your face. I
want to see the look on your face when it is shoved down your throat, and
your forced to swallow all the shit you constantly dish out.
you never understood anything the teachers said in elementary school, did
you? or are you still there?
you don't understand a word that someone with a higher IQ than 2 says, do
you?
>
> SHUT THE FUCK UP!
>
> YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL!
>
> YOU ARE DEFECTIVE! A PIECE OF SHIT!
obviously, you are defective. go smoke some more cannabis, you haven't had
enough.
>
> YOU SHOULD *PAY* ME FOR TELLING YOU THAT, BECAUSE YOU ARE _TOO FUCKING
> STUPID AND CRAZY_ TO KNOW THAT!
how about you pay me, say that to my face, and you could be sued for
slandering.
>
> "P'TFU!"
>
> I SPIT IN YOUR MENTALLY ILL, EVIL FACE!
so, just because someone is ill, that makes them evil? look in the
mirror, you'll see an evil face.
You have no right to say that shit. IF YOU EVER CAUSE OR HAVE CAUSED, ANYONE
TO GET SO DEPRESSED THAT THEY COMMIT SUICIDE, I HOPE YOU BURN IN WHATEVER
HELL YOU BELIEVE IN.
I do believe that Bob agrees, but he probably has you killfiled. don't
worry, I'm not going to, I want to see what stupid ass shit you come up
with. you probably won't even check back in on this. I know a bastard
that you remind me of. he is 15, pretends to be a girl, cybersexes with
guys, loves Hentai, Are you by any chance named Jay Smith? no? didn't
really think so, your more fucked up than he is.
why am I wasting my time typing, You can't understand shit, anyways.
Lunaticmaster
CJD, that is it, with BSE being the cow, thank you.
and while we are on the subject, foot & mouth is spreading faster than they
expected, isn't it?
Lunaticmaster
>you just posted made no sense whatsoever!
he doesn't understand anything and doesn't make any sense
and probably never will on either.
bobwhelan
reductionism advocated by eric..There is a tremendous amount of complex
interactions and entanglements..
Yes an intelligent cybernetic theory
Perfectly intelligible and more importantantly interesting and thought
provoking.!
> > > Same thing with the brain. Something is going wrong, and it has been
> > proving
> > > in some of the illnesses that blood flow is abnormal, or that there is
a
> > > chemical imbalance. there is proof of those things, and more.
> > a dangerous assumption. The "correct" balance is a myth and even if a
> > statistical analysis showed some perfect balance it is still a normative
> > judgement not scientific.
> > Indeed most scientists,artists and creative thinkers woukld be drugged
to
> > improve this socalled balance.
>
> "correct" balance is a myth? perfect balance? there is no perfect
> balance, there are many different ones, but if everyone that has
> schizophrenia has the exact same areas with increased blood flow, and the
> same other areas with less, and people who don't have it, have much much
> closer to the average for those areas, then 'something' is odd. what is
> triggering that blood flow, the blood flow, or what is causing it, could
> very well be causing, or at least affecting the schizophrenia somehow.
> people with depression generally have different levels of serotonin than
the
> average for everyone else.
>
Certainly but its still only a more sophisticated description of correlated
pycho-chemical and electrical
activities.
> Yes, each person's brain is going to be different
> but each persons heart is almost always on the left side, right? almost
> every person has 5 fingers on each hand, and 5 toes on each foot, right?
> most have 2 feet, and 2 legs, and 2 eyes, 2 hands, 2 arms, 1 nose, 1
mouth,
> 2 ears, hair on top of the head,
I think you might find that many genetic deviations are supressed by doctors
and families.
I was thinking more of Lithium salts.
amphetamines and SSRIs flood parts of the brain with chemical messagers
and it could be argued enhance brain functions..The longterm effects are
unknown for SSRIs
which is why I simply argue informed consent is needed in adults and they
are totally innapropriate for infants and children.
Are you arguing that huge numbers of children are being born with a genetic
disorder that requires drugging for life?
so
> lowering would be too? so, according to what your saying, and what I am
i
> nferring here, your saying someone with depression has a brain chemically
> disabled.....
>
Depression is disabling without a doubt and antidepressants can enable a
grieving person to function
but they cannot "cure" the loss of a loved one ,job,social role etc.
Given the crudity of diagnosis I dont see what level of confidence could be
given to the crucial distintion between reactive and endogenous depression.
> so drugs would be needed to get the brain closer to a chemical balance. if
> the brain is not chemically balanced, it is unable to function properly.
> Yes, that balance can very well be different for different people, but
there
> HAS to be a balance. you can't have 5 times or 1/4 the serotonin levels
than
> most other people and not expect 'something' to be different.
>
>
This is the crux..We dont have enough knowledge to interfere with the
homeostasis of
the brain in the name of a posited "optimal balance"
> >
> > and don't forget that there are those psychiatrists and
> > > psychologists out there that give their services for free. (yes I know
> > > someone is paying for it, but it's not the patient, so it's
essentially
> > > free, and no I'm not talking about government only either)
> > >
>
> >The history of psychiatric treatment is one of moral treatments for the
> > rich and physical treatments for the poor.
> > A question of the social stratification of services.
> odd, many poor have more morals than many of the rich. I know that isn't
> exactly what you meant, but it's still a fact.
>
> Here's something else. The artists, (music, painting, etc...) are able
to
> make tons of money, but at least some of that inspiration comes from
mania,
> depression, etc..
Asolutely..but sadly not all artists and poets are able to support
themselves ..Patronage has a long history.
and they take drugs to ease it. Yes, they take illegal
> drugs, many do overdose, at some point, but if they are getting 'moral
> treatments' it obviously isn't working.
It doesnt mean its not working becsause the client doesnt feel better. Many
people are totally misinformed as to the
goals of psychanalysis(unsuitable for major psychosis before Im jumped on!)
The goal according to Freud was to turn neurotic misery into common or
garden unhappiness.
> 'physical treatments' do make many people feel better, and allow them to
> function.
Without a doubt..once they can function however they should leave the toxic
environment, if possible,that contributed to the
psychogical breakdown.
The historical origin is that rich patients were sent on world cruises or to
a spa town and the poor were chained to walls.
> yes there are those that are given the wrong drugs, and/or misdiagnosed,
> because their doctors are uninformed of newer drugs, newer findings, etc..
> others are denied certain drugs because their insurance won't cover it,
This is scandalous
but
> there are a few doctors who don't give a damn.
>
> That cannot be helped, though. there are people like that everywhere.
> >
> >
Yes it can be helped..here in the UK steps are being taken to ensure a much
stricter scrutiny.
The taboo on tenderness and sensitivity is culturally induced.
> usually, I can hide it when I'm around people, of course, then I've got my
> mind focused on something, just like I do now. I have felt down since I
got
> off of the phone with my gf, and this is giving me something to do.
>
Well gf"s can put the rythm in it for better or worse.
> now that I think about it, there were things that did set me off during
that
> time. so I have dealt with it all this time. recently it is much worse,
> though.
You seem to be doing rather better than "dealing with it" to me.
>
I do realise that to a person in the slough of despond the mind/brain
arguments must seem like the discussions of how many angels can dance on the
head of a pin!
No the heat kills the foot and mouth virus but not the CJD apparently
I dont think the politicians even thought too hard about the number that may
have had mad cow disease in the panic and mass hysteria about the loss of
money the foot and mouth was causing.
Whole unreplaceable breeds of perfectly healthy animals are being wiped out
The bulk are heathy and there seems no viable arrangements to dispose of the
corpses.
some are beginning to simply starve to death awaiting slaughter.
The feed suppliers are starting to be accused of spreading it.
IMHO We may well find that the effects of this "cure" will be far worse than
the disease.
I repeat..scandalous that it should come down to money.
Absolutely..Ive just finished a book called "the coming plague" which shows
that the dreadful conditions in poor countries are hitting the west..The
greed of the major airlines has a lot to answer for in terms of importing
resistant TB and so forth.
To maximise profits they cut corners and refuse to stop recirculating used
air.All the medical authorities have told them they have to provide fresh
air..but they wont.
> sound familiar? I could send you the rest, but I don't want to make this
> any longer than it already is.
>
>
>
> Thank you for an intelligent response..you get so used to barmy abuse and
mad accusations
I shall digest your cybernetic analogy with interest.
Best Wishes,
Bob
bobwhelan
"Chris Hedley" <c...@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk> wrote in message
news:9badqg$vba$1...@teabag.cbhnet...
burnt may have had BSE.
The clowns dont seem to have even thought of it before
You must have missed the news of the protests and the fear of infection of
the water tables.
The prions arent destroyed by the heat according to the "experts" and are
spread on the wind.
Because an animal has foot and mouth doesnt mean it doesnt have BSE.
> Chris.
bobwhelan
is not on his own in demonising them.
Many posters seem concerned.The Home Secretary here
banned them or tried to .
To me its really weird to be accused of being one as if that proved
something and totally discredited the argument.If I wanted to be one I would
but I imagine for most people its an adolescent thing and the more people
say they are wicked the more aleinated people will sign up.
I dont try to discredit Erics arguments because he posts as Imperial Wizard
or Third Reich.
As the original poster said The ancient greeks discussed mind/brain
connections and its hard to see where scientology comes in.
Lunaticmaster
> all hid scheduled appointments.
his shrink probably refuses to see him, lmao
Lunaticmaster
bobwhelan
> Bob Whelan? <yawn> another dime a dozen asshole who probably never really
> experienced the "real thing" in terms of severe mental illness. Yet comes
on
> here spouting off about it like he is an expert about it.
Oh no Im not an expert on mental illness. ..never claimed to be.
You might be suprised to know that my philosophy is that the expert, for
example, on depression is someone who has been through it and survived and
became strengthhened enough to help others..ditto for bipolars..SA etc..
Nothing worse than someone sending postcards from places they havent been.
>
> So what form of mental illness have YOU had Bob? How severe was it?
I have never been diagnosed with mental illness but have been accused by
suffers of having every kind of undiagnosed disorder you can imagine!!
Have you
> taken any psychiatry meds in the last ten years?
No..except when my mother spiked me with Attivan before my fathers funeral.
That was awful because I was like a zombie and appeared callous and
unfeeling.
Let us in on some of the
> specifics of your background experience with mental health
> Please be specific Bob.
>
I went to great deal of trouble to explain all that when I arrived at this
group.
You can look it up in google if you wish. The last time I did here I was
mocked jeered at
told that the murder of my best friend was just "shit rolling down hill"
Iwas told I was Andrew, a supertroll that trained people to haunt mental
health groups and incite suicide..all kinds of crazy stuff..so you will have
to excuse me if I am a little reticent."scientologist" is tame in
comparison.
I studied the sociology of psychiatry and graduated in Sociology and
Advanced and Abnormal Clinical Psychology.
For my Masters I was doing participant observation but slipped my cultural
collar and worked actively for pychiatric reform
and better conditions and opportunities for psychiatric patients and attempt
ed to combat the negative stereotyping that so blights the career
opportunities and rehabillitation of ex patients.
For many years I worked at assisting patients to find jobs and accomodation
and helped organise self-help groups in the real world.
I dont think there is any kind of mental patient I have not had personal
relationships with ..even the ones where the "experts " say it is
impossible.And I mean every type.
I have found that if you treat people like human beings they get a chance to
behave like one.
Im afraid that will have to do for now.
> As for me, my diagnosis is major depression with psychotic tendencies and
Ive
> been on just about every modern class psychiatry med there is. Been in a
> research program for treatment resistant depression. Been a candidate for
ECT
> before but never have had the guts to go thru with it for obvious reasons.
Its not a question of courage..I have friends who forgot they had children
and became literally incapable of tying their shoelaces.
Ive
> had really severe major depression, the kind that goes beyond "just a
mood" Ive
> had the kind where basic bodily functions start falling apart and you
become a
> limp dicked, functionally demented total insomniac who totally loses their
> appetite and loses weight like crazy.
Been there.. done that..tried to hang myself...rope snapped..
Really sounds like a "mental" illness huh
of course but it must be hard to know where the illness stops and drug side
effects start if you have had so many.
What did they do at the research program?Apart from collecting data for
their thesis that is?
I read your posts about your hospital experience and it sounded ghastly.
Thats why I find it hard to understand you supporting such practices now.
> Bob?
>
> Please tell us your personal experience with mental illness Bob. If you
> actually have any that is.
>
Well Ive shared far more than you deserve :-)
Its up to you whether you respond genuinely,ignore it or carry on being
abusive.
Id be pretty hostile after such a trauma if I thought some
johnny-come-lately was wandering in preaching about something they know
nothing about.
regards,
Bob
Lunaticmaster
Chris Hedley
"bobwhelan" <bobw...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> Thats the point Chris they are connected ..many of the cows slaughtered and
> burnt may have had BSE.
> The clowns dont seem to have even thought of it before
> You must have missed the news of the protests and the fear of infection of
> the water tables.
> The prions arent destroyed by the heat according to the "experts" and are
> spread on the wind.
> Because an animal has foot and mouth doesnt mean it doesnt have BSE.
The apparently unquestioning acceptance of the above details, tenuous though
they are, seems somewhat at odds with the past several weeks' worth of
berating people on this newsgroup who support the somewhat more compelling
evidence that depression is the primary symptom of a treatable medical
condition because it can't be conclusively proven at this stage. I don't
quite see the logic in giving your own beliefs the benefit of the doubt
but rubbishing everyone else's. Now I would ask that you give others the
same slack that you're expecting yourself before you lose all credibility.
Chris.
Zero1
<bobw...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>"Lunaticmaster" <fpoo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
Referencing:
Message-IDS: <505C6.5611$6R5.3...@news1.atl>
& <x16C6.4265$xA.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
First off, I wish to truly thank both Bob & fpoole98 for the best
post I've read on usenet - exceedingly good! Whew!
This is some of the best support I've seen - ever!
Speaks fucking VOLUMES about more than the subject you were on.
Sharing like that is true goodness! It causes both your human
natures to shine right on through the crud the other pukes have been
heaving up chunks of. I appreciate it MUCH - thanks!
For one, it totally blows away the stupid shit posted by names in
the subject line, causing the biggest slam\flame I've seen in usenet
history, just by default of it's contrast. Way to go guys!!!
Bob, I will say you are one evil punk, but you do bow to
intelligence, so you're not all bad. You do, after all, have SOME
redeeming qualities. Evil you say? Yup. Why? Because you
seek to align yourself with the worst of the worst, & toss off the
truly suffering - THE REASON THE GROUP WAS CREATED.
You can play dumb all you want, but everyone knows you know better.
Get real, & quit skirting the bottom line - this is a support group
for bp'rs & immediate relatives - PERIOD.
Bob, I see you're still saying the quote "What doesn't kill me
makes me stronger". This simply isn't always true & is very
misleading - I wish you'd stop saying it. For example, if you were
forced to watch really terrible (unmentionable) things happening on a
monitor all day long, I ASSURE YOU, at the end of the day, you
wouldn't be stronger. Maybe the tiniest iota of your resolve would be
stronger, but all in all, your total for the day would be disastrous &
EXTREMELY debilitating.
The pukes in the subject line, however, do not possess redeeming
qualities - they are just evil trash - the lowest form too, & they
know it too - don't think they don't. Everyone has working gyroscopes.
It's black & white as black & white gets, oh yea of foolery.
Oafie, if netscum is an actual ISP, boy they sure named it
correctly. Netscum proly' means something else in your language,
something "proper" over there on your blonde sex perversion island.
Do you guys do anything over there besides screw kids & make canned
ham? You should really get out more. Just to piss you off for coming
here with your lil' pinched loaf-brain, I want you to know I've sent
your lil' "VOTE YES ON SCI.LANG.SCANDINAVIAN!!!" effort to as many
"areas" I can think of, extolling your essence, imploring *all* to
vote a big NO to your cause. :) I invite ALL to do the same - spread
it around in your work place, on other newsgroups, etc - make sure
it's a big NO. What was your infamous '96 date you were begging us to
ask you about? The first suicide you "accomplished by proxy? Probably,
you punk-ass scum. You are bad to the core. You have no idea, really,
but you will see when you meet your maker, then you'll realize what
your chances were, clear as a bell.
Rev - you're just too much of a pussy to comment on.
Boy, you named your pussy group right on target - meow.
Bunch of pussies, no doubt. Wimp punks in rl - no brain shit stains.
Nearbrainless - you are slime, pure & simple. I caught your lil'
cross posted message from your music group, imploring some
troll to stay away from your group, & the reasons, etc, so I KNOW
beyond any doubt you LIKE it to be nice in certain areas YOU wish
to enjoy hope in, therefore this makes you extra slimy & evil for
doing the same fucking thing here, in a mental illness support group.
God, what I wouldn't give to shower all your fellow employees & boss's
with the truth of your extreme cruelty by association & some of your
words. Btw, are you a nurses aide or an LPN? hee hee, see if you were
an RN, you wouldn't've said you were in nursing. LPN's & aides ALWAYS
like to boast they're "in nursing" (like professors demand to be
called Dr's) Think karma. Think eternal. Forever is a long time. Think
bad things. Think "what if he's right". Do you really, REALLY think
you know how to shudder? Truly? Think left hand. Think uh oh.
And punk boy who's too lame & stupid to live anywhere but the Y,
you are *exactly the opposite* of what you say everyone else is, as
you PROVE by the pics you post (among other things). Christ, you're a
moron - you best pray to the autonomic nervous sys god before you go
to sleep at night, lest you be smart enough to breathe air to keep you
alive, OBVIOUSLY. And to think you were a teacher once - good thing
they caught on. {|{|{shaking off entire body tremor}|}|} Andie, you
are the worst of the worst - the kind (like your bud nearbrainless)
that are by-product environmental issue victim types of those large
robot producing cities who inevitably slip through the cracks of
humanity by being big city factory seconds - mistakes. (it's not your
"bad" English, regardless of your excuses\reasonings).
If you weren't a child abuser YOURSELF, you would have your kid...duh.
You evil ones (see subj) should really take notes on this thread I
commented on, & allow it to sink in. Intelligence romps your ass's.
Your exceedingly STUPID words - Christ, get a life, grow a brain.
(to you that means more than two brain cells).
Bob & fpoole98 mercilessly SLAUGHTERED your shit drivel to pieces,
just by it's sheer intelligence - something you lil' I.T. twits know
nothing of (too busy getting your Billy Boy certs, huh). Btw, just WTF
is it with you morons carrying your lil' telephones (syndrome) around,
like they're guns on a holster, acting so "big" & important???
You do realize, I hope, as soon as you walk by, everyone quickly
reaches for their barf bags. I know, that's why you're here, you're
just seeking a place to vent from being so fucking worthless & having
no job satisfaction. Ya, it does suck being an IT dweeb, we know.
You are the least respected of the industry - everyone hates you.
Your arrogance is so sickening, but hey, you asked for it, you got it,
Toyota...Whatcha' gonna do when networks are self-sustaining, hmm?
Ooops...dum dum dum, another one bites the dust, da da dum dum dum.
I had a dream about "all of this" last night, which for one is weird
because I rarely ever remember any dreams, but I believe it was
because of the "scary" ending. Remembering dreams is a fleeting
affair, but I'll try to recount some of it. In my dream, somehow
I had the money & power to have all you turds rounded up
& caged into one area & there were cameras on your cage.
You were all sitting there, having been stripped & put into
big adult baby diapers, sucking on your big baby sucker rings.
(forgot what you call them - they're on the end of baby bottles).
You were all so pitiful looking sitting there, wondering why
you were placed there, & you kept crying like babies, but as I walked
into the room, you all immediately knew who I was & started acting
like you do here, saying the same shit. I got a real kick out of
walking up to your cage & taking turns bitch slapping each of you
back into your baby submission position, with your bottles instantly
materializing back into your mouths. Seems all it took was a lil'
bitch slapping to put you back into your places...hmm - never did know
what to make of dreams.
But it was a fun dream, until later. Later I looked through a window
& outside it was dark & we were in some scary looking yard, like
some old country cemetery (w\o any graves) surrounded by an ancient
looking wrought-iron fence of exquisite design. Very, very old
looking, even several centuries old. It must not' ve been in the US.
Just outside this fence was a totally scary, menacing wolf type
creature. I could barely make out it's form, but it was sitting there
like a statue, staring at the whole scene. I wouldn't even have
noticed it, had it not been for it's eyes. There was a triangle shaped
deep yellowish\dark red hue about it's face, encompassing it's
eyes,nose\mouth area, forming a triangle, emanating
this glow from it's face. I locked onto it's face & saw what it was.
Man, it sent shivers up my spine, it was so scary looking.
I could plainly see it was focusing on the cage & it's inhabitants,
I felt afraid for them, cos' I didn't have a key to let them out.
For some reason, I tried to shoo this creature away, but it didn't
work, rather, it got up & walked to the gate, pushing it open with an
invisible force, & just leapt right into the room we were in. I was
horrified & started running like hell, but right before leaving the
room I turned my head & saw that it wasn't after me at all, but rather
the victims in the cage. This "wolf" had just "floated" up into the
air to the top of the cage & it lifted open, allowing the wolf to drop
down inside with them. Then I started hearing the most horrible
sounds, so I shot out the door & slammed it shut - big steel bank
vault looking door.
Inside this new room I was in, was a huge monitor showing the
camera angle in the cage room. The sound was coming through
the speakers of the monitor too, & it was bad, bad, bad.
I heard the gnashing of teeth being ground together, & totally horrid
screams that were inhuman, ghostly like - totally shrilling, then
as I briefly looked at the monitor again, I saw the camera lens
being totally splattered with blood, like coming from a fire hose.
I jerked myself up in bed, physically waking up, totally shaken.
I then just got up & made some coffee & pondered this dream.
I thought gee, even though these insidious slimes spent all their
time coming to a mental illness newsgroup to taunt suffering
people, they certainly didn't deserve punishment of this type.
Then suddenly, I was back in some other room I'd never seen before,
in front of a wall of monitors, & I was sitting at this table with my
same cup of coffee. A ghostly figure that look like the Death guy with
the sickle, only he had the appearance of being a white mist shape
that I could see through, & he didn't have a sickle like the regular
dark black Death guy does.
He spoke like the guy in Starwars who Yoda was taught by.
He had a very calm & warm sounding voice, like he was God or
something.
The views on the monitors were changing rapidly & he was narrating
as he changed the views on the screens. He said these were the lives
of the people in the cages & for some reason I was privy to watch
as their lives unfolded before me. He said the pure evil they
committed by stalking\hunting mental illness patients on this
newsgroup had caused their karma to be unbelievably bad on both them &
their immediate families for the next 7 generations (I thought "Shit,
that's fucking BAD").
Then George Burns walks in, smoking his big cigar, KNOWING my thoughts
I just had, & he says, "It's just like in the movies kid, this is the
way it is. I want you to do something for me. I want you to go back
to your world & when you wake up I want you to get back on that
newsgroup where the atrocities are going on, & I want you to tell
them I have something very special & particular & quite eternal
waiting for them when they come to see me. Tell them this is their
last chance to turn their lives around & quit being the opposite of
what they were placed there to be. Tell them if they don't, there will
be no excuse - nadda." Those were his exact words too, verbatim.
The next thing I remember is sitting here, in RL typing this message.
So all there is left to do is click on send, then I'm back outta
here, back to my work at hand - argh, 12-14 hr days of solid work.
Whoa, this is really trippy, as I'm fully awake right now, but I just
got another flash from George. He just told me to tell you
"particulars" that if you do not believe any of this, to watch
your left hands over the next 30 days & by the next full moon, an
unmistakable white shape will appear - boink, poof, he left.
Hmm, wonder what shape he meant, or where on your hand - front
or back...Guess you'll just have to notice for yourselves, huh.
I'll check back in 30 days to see your reports - fuck, who knows,
I could be dreaming (still), or just psychotic, or maybe, just maybe
it happened. Stay tuned, same bat time, same bat channel.
c ya in 30.
course' you could email me if it happens sooner.
Zero1
Ps: Whoops, you know how dreams are - just remembered another
piece. I had a long talk with George about homos. I told him the
reason I left the newsgroup in the first place was because of 2 or 3
queers (he stopped me right there & told me that queer means odd, &
that it's not "their" word, their word is homo or homosexual) were
in here recruiting, & being just generally faggy, ya know, like they
only they know how to "be".
He told me perversion is perversion, regardless. He said that
orgasms were records (most even screaming out his name as they happen,
"Oh God YES!!!") being imprinted on our souls that we ALL would answer
for when the time came & that ANY & ALL that occurred WITHOUT the
expressed purpose of making a child, were perverted & would be dealt
with accordingly.
I asked him why he gave us the ability to have an orgasm then,
& he replied that it was imprinted in us for survival of the species,
to evolve with, as we were way too stupid to even reproduce back when
we were first put here. He said by the time humans evolved enough
to know how to reproduce w\o them, we SHOULD'VE realized by then
that was their SOLE purpose - his gift to us to celebrate the life we
were creating - a sort of toast "as it happened."
He said to bicker about perversions between whose was worse was
sheer lunacy & a total waste of our precious time here, & to just make
the best of it & avoid them at ALL costs, when possible. He did say
that to want to create life, when we felt like we were near death
(especially emotional & mortal feeling) was "normal" though, & as so,
caused those particular influenced orgasms to be of good enough intent
to be OK with him & Ma. That's right, there's TWO of'm (didn't see her
though). I asked about that & he said, Well, duh...what do you think
"created in God's image means exactly, dipshit."
I asked him why fags existed & he scolded me & told me not to
call them fags (either), that THAT word also meant something else
& wasn't "theirs" either. He said homosexual or homo for short
was ALL they were to be called.
So then I kept on asking why they exist & he repeated, "It's just
like my "Oh God" movies you watched, kid". You can't have up w\o
down, in w\o out, over here w\o over there, good w\o bad, etc.
He said all this is eternal, & since eternity is forever, it
grows from a tiny thing to an endless thing, & along the way
we go through stages, or doors, until we succeed & earn the
passage to the next one.
He said to not treat the homos badly, cos they were his children
JUST LIKE everyone else is, but also adding that they were needed on
this plane of existence in order for everyone to learn. He added that
eventually,on other planes, there would be no more TAO structured
life, but much, MUCH different living. He said he & ma are the word
LOVE, & that where ever love was, they were, & that homos really
do realize this. He did say they were born to be homo, for his & ma's
reasons for this plane of existence.
I asked him to help me with my homophobia, since I truly believe
they're freaks of nature & totally unnatural pieces of poop. He asked
if I was afraid of homos, & I said, "Hell no", then he told me not to
call myself a homophobe, since that's what it means. He also said
he enjoys knowing they don't like being called homos. He said it
was a motivation thing for them.
He also said nothing was free - ever, & that's the price they "paid"
for being made (usually) so gifted with intelligence. He said we'd
understand more fully at some point.
He used the F word too (even). He said (as he was shooing me back
home), "Remember kid, if I wait until you die to judge you, who the
fuck do you think you (mankind) are to try & do my job BEFORE any of
you pass on, hmmm?"
I then asked, "But why God, but why?"
He just looked at me, scrunched up his for head, gave me a thump
(ouch) & walked away laughing, looking over his shoulder & said,
"Don't ask why kid, get a good joint to smoke & ask for a Bud Dry."
Brought to you by zeros & ones, & my dream factory.
Peace & proper balance to all.
Toodles.
Pss: Sorta strange this occurred on Easter, huh.
~alexplore~-
The real Third Reich <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010415113912...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
> >I have never been diagnosed with mental illness but have been accused by
> >suffers of having every kind of >undiagnosed disorder you can imagine!!
>
SEVERELY
> MENTALLY ILL!!!
Is that a bad thing?
> How the fuck can you expect to come on this board, talking bad
> things about psych meds and such when youve never even been thru it
yourself?
>
He was talking about the mental defectives, etc..
Btw, how can YOU, a fucking *MENTAL* *CASE*, speak about mental illness and
drugs, EXCEPT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A FUCKING MENTAL CASE? ;)
RIGHT? :)
> It doesnt compute Bob and it shows like I suspected from the start just by
> reading your posts, that you have no credibility in the area of severe
mental
> illness.
Should a psychiatrist then be a crack pot, fucked in the head in order to
treat mental cases? ;)
> You are simply another dime a dozen assholes who is in denial in some
> way or another of the existence and severity of severe mental illness.
>
> >
>
> >Have you
> >> taken any psychiatry meds in the last ten years?
> >No..except when my mother spiked me with Attivan before my fathers
funeral.
>
>
> Like I said before Bob, this proves my point about you. First youve never
had a
> severe mental illness to begin with. Secondly you never have taken psych
> meds...Ativan doesnt even count its a wussy med hardly worthy of even
> mentioning...might as well drink a few beers as take an Ativan.
>
> Your lack of having any personal direct experience with having major
mental
> illness plus your lack of experience with psych meds wipes out any
possible
> credibility you have here on this NG.
Huh?
See above again asshole!
> Plus you have no medical training.
Do you?
Do you have a normal brain to begin to THINK? ;)
============= rest of his mentally ill droolings and stupid shit
continues... fucking _inferior_ they are! :)
> Having
> a graduate degree in psychology or sociology doesnt mean shit to the
severely
> mentally ill persons on this board who have "been there done that" and you
have
> not BTDT Bob.
>
> Bob, I would highly suggest if you have not Been There and Done That to
keep
> your dipshit opinions to yourself.
Err.... only the opinions of the mentally defective "count"? :)
> I told you before it was very obvious just
> from reading your posts that you are in denial of the existence of severe
> mental illness. Its also very obvious you have a strongly anti-med tone
> overall. You wont be able to continue to post on this NG with any
credibility
> Bob.
>
> I applaud your efforts at improving the conditions mental patients must
endure.
> However this is a medication NG and anyone with severe mental illness will
tell
> you that meds are the foundation of a recovery plan. If they dont admit
this
> they are probably in denial of their illness or they might have been
influenced
> negatively by the very vocal anti-med lobby, of which it is obvious you
are a
> part of.
>
> To let you know the reason why I ended up going to the hospital recently,
the
> reason I went was not because I was actively suicidal or anything, it was
> because recently in past months I had gotten to where I had developed
problems
> tolerating antidepressants without my BP spiking. Turned out I had to be
put on
> BP meds cause I developed a problem with moderate high BP in recent
months. I
> had been very stable up to this recent problem I developed and you know
what
> was the main thing keeping me stable Bob? ANTIDEPRESSANTS! Yes, thats
right
> Bob. Modern class antidepressants are effective and also very safe. I
recommend
> to anybody to stick with the modern class and avoid the old shit, which
are
> very toxic and potentially dangerous.
>
> Maybe you should be more specific in your warnings about meds Bob and tell
> people that its the old psych meds that are the ones that can really fuck
you
> up. Its true that the old meds do have bad side effects and they can cause
> problems. However these modern class meds that thave come out since Prozac
are
> VERY SAFE! And actually more effective if you ask me.
>
> Your arguments dont cut it Bob and they show gaping holes to any person
who has
> actually BTDT and you certainly have not BTDT. So please go away Bob.
>
>
> Eric
Lunaticmaster
"~alexplore~-" <NoMoreDeathThreatsFrom@psych-drug-addicts-please!!> wrote in
message news:9bcl4p$bp8$0...@dosa.alt.net...
>
> The real Third Reich <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010415113912...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
> > >I have never been diagnosed with mental illness but have been accused
by
> > >suffers of having every kind of >undiagnosed disorder you can imagine!!
> >
> > Well there you go Bob. What I suspected all along. YOUVE NEVER BEEN
> SEVERELY
> > MENTALLY ILL!!!
>
> Is that a bad thing?
>
> > How the fuck can you expect to come on this board, talking bad
> > things about psych meds and such when youve never even been thru it
> yourself?
> >
>
> He was talking about the mental defectives, etc..
> Btw, how can YOU, a fucking *MENTAL* *CASE*, speak about mental illness
and
> drugs, EXCEPT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A FUCKING MENTAL CASE? ;)
>
> RIGHT? :)
Hell yeah your fucked up.
>
> Do you?
> Do you have a normal brain to begin to THINK? ;)
do you even have a brain?
>
> ============= rest of his mentally ill droolings and stupid shit
> continues... fucking _inferior_ they are! :)
didn't think you had one, and that proves it.
>
>
> > Having
> > a graduate degree in psychology or sociology doesnt mean shit to the
> severely
> > mentally ill persons on this board who have "been there done that" and
you
> have
> > not BTDT Bob.
> >
> > Bob, I would highly suggest if you have not Been There and Done That to
> keep
> > your dipshit opinions to yourself.
>
> Err.... only the opinions of the mentally defective "count"? :)
do your ramblings count worth shit? No.
what are you smoking, ingesting, and/or shooting up with? are you chewing
peyote? you probably don't even know what that is, do you?
~alexplore~-
>
> "~alexplore~-" <NoMoreDeathThreatsFrom@psych-drug-addicts-please!!> wrote
in
> message news:9bcl4p$bp8$0...@dosa.alt.net...
> >
> > The real Third Reich <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20010415113912...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
> > > >I have never been diagnosed with mental illness but have been accused
> by
> > > >suffers of having every kind of >undiagnosed disorder you can
imagine!!
> > >
> > > Well there you go Bob. What I suspected all along. YOUVE NEVER BEEN
> > SEVERELY
> > > MENTALLY ILL!!!
> >
> > Is that a bad thing?
> >
> > > How the fuck can you expect to come on this board, talking bad
> > > things about psych meds and such when youve never even been thru it
> > yourself?
> > >
> >
> > He was talking about the mental defectives, etc..
> > Btw, how can YOU, a fucking *MENTAL* *CASE*, speak about mental illness
> and
> > drugs, EXCEPT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A FUCKING MENTAL CASE? ;)
> >
> so your fucked up perspective counts?
YES. FIRST THINK - I'M NOT A MENTAL CASE.
> I think not asshole
YOU ARE A MENTAL CASE.
ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT!
>
>
> > RIGHT? :)
>
> Hell yeah your fucked up.
> >
> > Do you?
> > Do you have a normal brain to begin to THINK? ;)
>
> do you even have a brain?
YES... AND I ALSO HAVE ONE THAT IS NOT ALL FUCKED UP, AND MENTALLY ILL.
ALWAYS REMEMBER! YOU ARE A MENTAL CASE!
JUST SHARING....
====================
Lunaticmaster
you are the true fucked up one. go smoke some more cannabis, sniff some more
cocaine, burn some more crack, shoot up some more heroine,
You fucked up dumbass
~alexplore~-
> you are just fucked up You have not listened to anything, you never will.
A normal person is "fucked up" for NOT LISTENING TO A DERANGED fucked in the
head MENTAL CASE? :)
What planet you from?
What mental hospital you escape? :)
============ besides your usual "psycho. drugs" - do the rest of the shit
you do, that you feel the need to mention below, MENTAL CASE, piece of shit!
Lunaticmaster
you didn't listen to anything. there you go twisting stuff again. Check out
true scientific reports, medical reports, etc... you'll see the truth that
you so want to deny.
2. there is no 'normal' person, but if there was, you sure as hell would not
be him.
your not denying, so you must be doing them. so, how does the cannabis
taste? another question is it marijuana, or something else? or maybe a
combination of many? does the crack smell good? heroine feel good?
which one, or is it all of them, that you are taking?
not that it is any of your fucking business, but I am not, and have not been
in a 'mental' hospital. no need. but obviously you belong in one. your
shrink refuse to talk to you? did he deny you medication? or are you just
too stupid to take it?
~alexplore~-
> 1. I did not say you were fucked up for not listening to me. dumbass,
Yes you did.
That was clear in what YOU said and HOW you said it.
Do you know change your mind Mental Patient?
You do that a lot you know....
I am glad to be helping you!
> I said
> you didn't listen to anything. there you go twisting stuff again. Check
out
> true scientific reports, medical reports, etc... you'll see the truth that
> you so want to deny.
see above before you forget it again!
>
> 2. there is no 'normal' person, but if there was, you sure as hell would
not
> be him.
>
>
> your not denying, so you must be doing them. so, how does the cannabis
> taste? another question is it marijuana, or something else? or maybe a
> combination of many? does the crack smell good? heroine feel good?
>
> which one, or is it all of them, that you are taking?
>
>
> not that it is any of your fucking business, but I am not, and have not
been
> in a 'mental' hospital. no need. but obviously you belong in one. your
> shrink refuse to talk to you? did he deny you medication? or are you just
> too stupid to take it?
If you haven't been hospitalized yet... that is good!
What is the name of your psychiatrist?
Perhaps his/her staff might wish to see your postings.
The name/address please.
Also, please give me your name as well.
I do have <fpoo...@bellsouth.net> this is all I need actually, but it
would be faster if you gave me the information.
COMPLY!
Lunaticmaster
it to you.
I don't have a psych, but you sure as hell need one.
think that email is going to get you anywhere? LMAO
you do not read everything clearly. you read what you want to read. and
that's all.
you don't care about the truth. you don't care about what anyone tells you.
You only care about yourself. your thoughts, your opinions are all that
matter to you.
I hope they keep you nice and warm.
that would be the only warmth you'd have in that blackness that is your
heart.
I have a question for you.
>If you haven't been hospitalized yet... that is good!
>What is the name of your psychiatrist?
>Perhaps his/her staff might wish to see your postings.
>The name/address please.
>Also, please give me your name as well.
what do you care? from everything I have seen you post, you don't give a
shit about anyone. I have not seen anywhere that you have thought of all of
the consequences to your actions. Think before you speak. save the world
from your mouth.
bobwhelan
"Zero1" <ru_wh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:rj0jdt8u9kcssa89i...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:31:50 +0100, "bobwhelan"
> <bobw...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Lunaticmaster" <fpoo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
>
> Referencing:
> Message-IDS: <505C6.5611$6R5.3...@news1.atl>
> & <x16C6.4265$xA.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
>
a crisis.
>
> First off, I wish to truly thank both Bob & fpoole98 for the best
> post I've read on usenet - exceedingly good! Whew!
>
> This is some of the best support I've seen - ever!
> Speaks fucking VOLUMES about more than the subject you were on.
> Sharing like that is true goodness! It causes both your human
> natures to shine right on through the crud the other pukes have been
> heaving up chunks of. I appreciate it MUCH - thanks!
>
> For one, it totally blows away the stupid shit posted by names in
> the subject line, causing the biggest slam\flame I've seen in usenet
> history, just by default of it's contrast. Way to go guys!!!
>
Better to light a candle than complain about darkness
> Bob, I will say you are one evil punk, but you do bow to
> intelligence, so you're not all bad. You do, after all, have SOME
> redeeming qualities. Evil you say? Yup. Why? Because you
> seek to align yourself with the worst of the worst,
Judge not lest ye be judged etc
& toss off the
> truly suffering
Never done that in my life
- THE REASON THE GROUP WAS CREATED.
> You can play dumb all you want, but everyone knows you know better.
> Get real, & quit skirting the bottom line - this is a support group
> for bp'rs & immediate relatives - PERIOD.
a) I am an immediate relative
b) There are more ways to be supportive than giving advice/shared experience
of medications and therapies
c) I have been supportive to mentally distressed people for decades
>
> Bob, I see you're still saying the quote "What doesn't kill me
> makes me stronger". This simply isn't always true & is very
> misleading - I wish you'd stop saying it.
Lots of people who have been persuaded or persuaded themselves that their
life is ruined and over
find it very empowering; rape victims, torture victims,secondary murder
victims etc.
IE people who have faced REAL evil in their lives.
For example, if you were
> forced to watch really terrible (unmentionable) things happening on a
> monitor all day long, I ASSURE YOU, at the end of the day, you
> wouldn't be stronger. Maybe the tiniest iota of your resolve would be
> stronger, but all in all, your total for the day would be disastrous &
> EXTREMELY debilitating.
I and many others have been forced to watch and experience real terror and
unmentionable things
and what doesnt kill you does make you strong (IMNSHO)
I accept there is a question of timing however but that is a problem
for any transformative utterance in a public space
From another hero of mine William Blake,"True friendship is opposition."
Loved the Dante type dream
regards,
Bob
bobwhelan
> In article <r96C6.4276$xA.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
> "bobwhelan" <bobw...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> > Thats the point Chris they are connected ..many of the cows slaughtered
and
> > burnt may have had BSE.
> > The clowns dont seem to have even thought of it before
> > You must have missed the news of the protests and the fear of infection
of
> > the water tables.
> > The prions arent destroyed by the heat according to the "experts" and
are
> > spread on the wind.
> > Because an animal has foot and mouth doesnt mean it doesnt have BSE.
>
> The apparently unquestioning acceptance of the above details, tenuous
though
> they are,
fears that the Ministry of Agriculture is in fact spreading the disease.
seems somewhat at odds with the past several weeks' worth of
> berating people on this newsgroup who support the somewhat more compelling
> evidence that depression is the primary symptom of a treatable medical
> condition because it can't be conclusively proven at this stage.
I dont berate anyone but as you are doing here I will try to combat
misinformation
and the presenting of theory as fact.
I don't
> quite see the logic in giving your own beliefs the benefit of the doubt
> but rubbishing everyone else's. Now I would ask that you give others the
> same slack
I think you are confusing me with someone else..
Im the wishy-washy liberal that feels all points of view should be allowed
expression.
that you're expecting yourself before you lose all credibility.
Im not a politician or anything..It doesnt bother me to be thought a clown
or whatever
The truth comes out in the end..
regards,
Bob
>
> Chris.
bobwhelan
"The real Third Reich" <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010415113912...@ng-fa1.aol.com...
> >I have never been diagnosed with mental illness but have been accused by
> >suffers of having every kind of >undiagnosed disorder you can imagine!!
>
SEVERELY
talking bad
> things about psych meds and such when youve never even been thru it
yourself?
>
obvious.
I have known many people some freinds whose lives
have been blighted and destroyed through zealous overmedication
> It doesnt compute Bob and it shows like I suspected from the start just by
> reading your posts, that you have no credibility in the area of severe
mental
> illness. You are simply another dime a dozen assholes who is in denial in
some
> way or another of the existence and severity of severe mental illness.
>
> >
You couldnt be more wrong if you tried
>
> >Have you
> >> taken any psychiatry meds in the last ten years?
> >No..except when my mother spiked me with Attivan before my fathers
funeral.
>
>
> Like I said before Bob, this proves my point about you. First youve never
had a
> severe mental illness to begin with. Secondly you never have taken psych
> meds...Ativan doesnt even count its a wussy med hardly worthy of even
> mentioning...might as well drink a few beers as take an Ativan.
>
Perhaps for hardened medication takers as yourself..
> Your lack of having any personal direct experience with having major
mental
> illness plus your lack of experience with psych meds wipes out any
possible
> credibility you have here on this NG. Plus you have no medical training.
wrong again.
Having
> a graduate degree in psychology or sociology doesnt mean shit to the
severely
> mentally ill persons on this board who have "been there done that" and you
have
> not BTDT Bob.
>
Never felt it did ..I thought you were asking how I became involved in the
mental health field.
> Bob, I would highly suggest if you have not Been There and Done That to
keep
> your dipshit opinions to yourself. I told you before it was very obvious
just
> from reading your posts that you are in denial of the existence of severe
> mental illness. Its also very obvious you have a strongly anti-med tone
> overall. You wont be able to continue to post on this NG with any
credibility
> Bob.
>
You use the words"in denial" to attempt to discredit opposing views rather a
lot for someone who hates "psychobabble"?
> I applaud your efforts at improving the conditions mental patients must
endure.
> However this is a medication NG and anyone with severe mental illness will
tell
> you that meds are the foundation of a recovery plan.
Again you have clipped my approval of medication with informed consent.
to fit the character assasination you are attempting.
If they dont admit this
> they are probably in denial of their illness or they might have been
influenced
> negatively by the very vocal anti-med lobby, of which it is obvious you
are a
> part of.
>
So anyone with a different opinion to you is automatically plain wrong?
> To let you know the reason why I ended up going to the hospital recently,
the
> reason I went was not because I was actively suicidal or anything, it was
> because recently in past months I had gotten to where I had developed
problems
> tolerating antidepressants without my BP spiking. Turned out I had to be
put on
> BP meds cause I developed a problem with moderate high BP in recent
months. I
> had been very stable up to this recent problem I developed and you know
what
> was the main thing keeping me stable Bob? ANTIDEPRESSANTS! Yes, thats
right
> Bob. Modern class antidepressants are effective and also very safe. I
recommend
> to anybody to stick with the modern class and avoid the old shit, which
are
> very toxic and potentially dangerous.
If you mean tri-cyclics and that you are certainly correct not to mention
largactil and so forth
>
> Maybe you should be more specific in your warnings about meds Bob and tell
> people that its the old psych meds that are the ones that can really fuck
you
> up. Its true that the old meds do have bad side effects and they can cause
> problems. However these modern class meds that thave come out since Prozac
are
> VERY SAFE! And actually more effective if you ask me.
Effective depends on the goal but the long term effects are unknown and
SSRIs
had one of the shortest safety trials in pharmaceutical history.
Some patients like you swear by them others become severly disturbed
suicidal and even homicidal.
You yourself are the guinea pig.
Again you have clipped that my main objection is to experiment on infants
and children
>
> Your arguments dont cut it Bob and they show gaping holes to any person
who has
> actually BTDT and you certainly have not BTDT. So please go away Bob.
>
>
You talk to me of depression and just clip and ignore my recent suicide
attempt.
So I could say to you that you have led a very sheltered and medicated life
and know little of suffering or genuine trauma.
I dont believe this but it makes as much sense as your diatribe,
regards,
Bob
> Eric
alexplore_
The real Third Reich <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010415203011...@ng-fj1.aol.com...
> Bob, Im not going to argue with you forever and ever. Ive been around a
while
> now and the things you say ring of someone who has been strongly
influenced by
> the anti-med people. Your insistence that SSRIs are unsafe is unfounded.
The
> only persons they are unsafe for are bipolar manic depressives and anyone
who
> knows anything about SSRIs will tell you that too.
>
> It baffles me that you have had a recent suicide attempt yet refuse to go
on
> meds. I dont understand that. Frankly I think you are an idiot Bob. Get on
some
> meds. Trust me, psych meds are totally safe if used properly. When used
> properly and for the right reasons, psych meds will "build you up" and not
tear
> you down.
>
> Its very obvious Bob that you have gotten some really weird, unusual ideas
> about SSRIs and other psych meds from somewhere. I wonder where from? And
what
> exactly is "Largactil" Bob? I never heard of that before.
>
> I dont believe tricyclics are very good drugs Bob. They are old school,
nobody
> uses them anymore hardly. They are dirty drugs and have lots of nasty
> anti-cholinergic side effects. Modern class psych meds are much MUCH less
> toxic, dont have strong anti-cholinergic side effects, they are very
cardio
> friendly and all in all modern class meds like SSRIs make you a better
person
> if you are unlucky to have severe depression.
>
> Millions and I do mean MILLIONS of depressed persons are alive today due
to
> SSRIs Bob. Tell that to your scientology bossman the next time you go to
your
> weekly meeting.
>
> On a serious note Bob, I really do think you are rather unbright to have
had a
> recent suicide attempt as you claim you have had and you are still not on
the
> right type of psych med. I dont know what would be the right med for you
Bob.
> It might be an SSRI like Prozac. Or perhaps you are bipolar and would do
much
> better on a mood stabilizer. Or perhaps you need to take the med
combination
> route so many are on these days. But I would suggest getting on some meds
soon
> if you are actively suicidal. Which specific meds would be for your
Medical
> Doctor.
>
> Get some help soon Bob, you are very ill and your thinking is very
distorted.
> You are actively suicidal you claim yet you refuse to go on any psych
meds. And
> you talk all this shit about meds being bad, meds being this, meds being
that.
> Something somewhere is not right Bob.
>
> Do you have psychosis by any chance?
>
How was the mental hospital, mental case? :)
bobwhelan
> Bob, Im not going to argue with you forever and ever. Ive been around a
while
> now and the things you say ring of someone who has been strongly
influenced by
> the anti-med people. Your insistence that SSRIs are unsafe is unfounded.
The
> only persons they are unsafe for are bipolar manic depressives and anyone
who
> knows anything about SSRIs will tell you that too.
>
and there
is nothing to be gained by anybody to pretend otherwise.
It is a distortion to say I claimed they have been proven unsafe.
The jury is still out on them.
> It baffles me that you have had a recent suicide attempt yet refuse to go
on
> meds. I dont understand that. Frankly I think you are an idiot Bob. Get on
some
> meds. Trust me, psych meds are totally safe if used properly. When used
> properly and for the right reasons, psych meds will "build you up" and not
tear
> you down.
>
I dealt with the issues.
> Its very obvious Bob that you have gotten some really weird, unusual ideas
> about SSRIs and other psych meds from somewhere. I wonder where from?
a)from experience of the effects and personality changes engendered in
friends
and others.I have seen heathy young people turned into invalids before their
time with all quality
of life gone in the name of an unspoken social control
b)Decades of study of the origins and treatment rationales.
they are not weird or particularly unusual as you know full well.
Have you ever heard of Emil Kraepelin?
And what exactly is "Largactil" Bob? I never heard of that before.
I think the call it Thorazine in the US
Young people are also given Haldol,Melleril,and even paraldehyde in some
cases
and it is barbaric and wrong(IMNSHO)
>
> I dont believe tricyclics are very good drugs Bob. They are old school,
nobody
> uses them anymore hardly. They are dirty drugs and have lots of nasty
> anti-cholinergic side effects.
Yes they do..I have one freind who can hardly focuss his eyes because of
them.
Modern class psych meds are much MUCH less
> toxic, dont have strong anti-cholinergic side effects, they are very
cardio
> friendly and all in all modern class meds like SSRIs make you a better
person
> if you are unlucky to have severe depression.
>
In their effects they seem just like a legal amphetamine which you have and
prescribe in the states.
To me, it is really bizarre that kids are asked to say no to speed in the
UK
but parents are forced to allow their children to have them in the States.
I am pretty sure there is a Prozac psychosis not unsimilar to the wellknown
amphetamine psychosis
> Millions and I do mean MILLIONS of depressed persons are alive today due
to
> SSRIs Bob.
Are you saying that some process has started to go on that would have
resulted in the suicide of millions?
Try to be a bit openminded and read "Suicide" by Emil Durkheim. A
sociological classic.
I know a fair bit about suicidology.
Tell that to your scientology bossman the next time you go to your
> weekly meeting.
>
Dont be dreary..I have no Bossman least of all a scientology one.
You still havent told me why you have a bee in your bonnet about
scientology.
I have answered lots of your questions honestly.Perhaps you vould answer
that one?
> On a serious note Bob, I really do think you are rather unbright to have
had a
> recent suicide attempt as you claim you have had and you are still not on
the
> right type of psych med. I dont know what would be the right med for you
Bob.
> It might be an SSRI like Prozac.
I see it as a "dark night of the soul" and a spiritual problem rather than a
chemical one
Or perhaps you are bipolar and would do much
> better on a mood stabilizer. Or perhaps you need to take the med
combination
> route so many are on these days. But I would suggest getting on some meds
soon
> if you are actively suicidal. Which specific meds would be for your
Medical
> Doctor.
>
No I am not actively suicidal. Thanks for the concern if it is genuine
I went to ADSM originally whilst you were in hospital,I think.
As outrageous as you will find this Andrew was originally the only peron who
gave me support
rather than abuse and insane accusations.I realise now that there are other
supportive people there
but the only ones originally who cared if I lived or died were the socalled
"bad" people.
> Get some help soon Bob, you are very ill and your thinking is very
distorted.
> You are actively suicidal you claim yet you refuse to go on any psych
meds. And
> you talk all this shit about meds being bad, meds being this, meds being
that.
> Something somewhere is not right Bob
No Im not actively suicidal and its rather shabby to try to use my having
confided to discredit
arguments about the side-effects of drugs.
>
You cant diagnose people without sharing time and space with them
> Do you have psychosis by any chance?
>
No I have intermittent touches of PTSD but ironically all the torture
fantasies
and murder plots about Andrew seem to have helped to make me less liable to
trigger.
Zero1 doesnt like the expression but what doesnt kill me makes me strong.
Robert
Spoken like a man who has not suffered from a debilitating depression,
I guess ssri's are bad when you don't need them.
bobwhelan
"Robert" <robe...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:6r3ldt00pm0mm68tg...@4ax.com...
>
> Spoken like a man who has not suffered from a debilitating depression,
> I guess ssri's are bad when you don't need them.
>
and space.
Its difficult enough if someone is in the same room.
You have no idea of my mental state present or past.
Im suprised you are joining Erics attempts to paint me as an anti-medication
extremist.
Dont you think there should be follow ups and intelligent scrutiny of
side-effects?
Or are you happy just to blindly accept the pharmaceutical
companies word .
Are you old enough to remember Thalidomide?
regards,
Bob
alexplore_
bobwhelan <bobw...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:fhtC6.7246$cf5.6...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> "The real Third Reich" <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010415203011...@ng-fj1.aol.com...
> > Bob, Im not going to argue with you forever and ever. Ive been around a
> while
> > now and the things you say ring of someone who has been strongly
> influenced by
> > the anti-med people. Your insistence that SSRIs are unsafe is unfounded.
See:
http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/index.html (netscape friendly)
www.drugawareness.org
and the archives in
http://www.egroups.com/group/drugawareness
You *JUNKIES* hate this site don't you? :)
But nothing *REAL* or *HONEST* you can say about it, is there? :)
Certainly you are far to STUPID to question the science, etc..
> The
> > only persons they are unsafe for are bipolar manic depressives and
anyone
> who
> > knows anything about SSRIs will tell you that too.
OH?
The _BIG LIE_ again? :)
> >
> The long term effects are totally unknown.It is a controversial treatment
> and there
> is nothing to be gained by anybody to pretend otherwise.
> It is a distortion to say I claimed they have been proven unsafe.
> The jury is still out on them.
>
>
>
> > It baffles me that you have had a recent suicide attempt yet refuse to
go
> on
> > meds. I dont understand that. Frankly I think you are an idiot Bob.
Who's all fucked up? Him or you?
Who's on drugz? Him or you? ;)
> Get on
> some
> > meds. Trust me, psych meds are totally safe if used properly.
"Trust me.." YOU ALWAYS SAY THAT, YOU DOCUMENTED LYING, IGNORANT PIECE OF
SHIT!
HEY!
WEREN'T YOU THE ONE THAT POSTED _A FEW DAYS AGO_ THAT YOU ARE "COMPLETELY
PSYCHOTIC"? ;)
> When used
> > properly and for the right reasons, psych meds will "build you up" and
not
> tear
> > you down.
YOU ARE *PROOF* OF THAT, NOW AREN'T YOU? :)
STILL CAN'T GET IT UP? ;)
> >
> I dealt with the issues.
>
>
>
> > Its very obvious Bob that you have gotten some really weird, unusual
ideas
> > about SSRIs and other psych meds from somewhere. I wonder where from?
http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/index.html (netscape friendly)
www.drugawareness.org
and the archives in
http://www.egroups.com/group/drugawareness
AND SUCH LIKE ....
SEE ESTIMATES ON NUMBER OF DEATHS FROM SSRI's in _PROZAC BACKLASH_ by Dr.
Glenmulen et al.
> >
> In their effects they seem just like a legal amphetamine which you have
and
> prescribe in the states.
> To me, it is really bizarre that kids are asked to say no to speed in the
> UK
> but parents are forced to allow their children to have them in the
States.
> I am pretty sure there is a Prozac psychosis not unsimilar to the
wellknown
> amphetamine psychosis
>
>
> > Millions and I do mean MILLIONS of depressed persons are alive today due
> to
> > SSRIs Bob.
THAT WOULD HAVE DIED OTHERWISE?
DON'T THINK SO PIGFUCKER...
IN FACT... QUITE THE OTHER WAY AROUND...
THAT WOULD HAVE *LIVED* IF NOT FOR SSRIs.
THOSE ARE THE STATISTICS! AND YOU KNOW IT, YOU LYING PIGFUCKING (WHEN YOU
STILL HAD A FUNCTIONING DICK) ASSHOLE!
DR. PIGFUCKER AGAIN EH? :)
MENTAL CASE!
> >
> No I am not actively suicidal. Thanks for the concern if it is genuine
> I went to ADSM originally whilst you were in hospital,I think.
> As outrageous as you will find this Andrew was originally the only peron
who
> gave me support
> rather than abuse and insane accusations.I realise now that there are
other
> supportive people there
> but the only ones originally who cared if I lived or died were the
socalled
> "bad" people.
{shhhh!}
>
> > Get some help soon Bob, you are very ill and your thinking is very
> distorted.
> > You are actively suicidal you claim yet you refuse to go on any psych
> meds. And
> > you talk all this shit about meds being bad, meds being this, meds being
> that.
> > Something somewhere is not right Bob
>
> No Im not actively suicidal and its rather shabby to try to use my having
> confided to discredit
> arguments about the side-effects of drugs.
> >
> You cant diagnose people without sharing time and space with them
>
>
>
> > Do you have psychosis by any chance?
HEY ERIC? DID YOU HAVE AN ESP. BIG HAIRY HOG YOU LIKED TO FUCK?
alexplore_
> >Spoken like a man who has not suffered from a debilitating depression,
> >I guess ssri's are bad when you don't need them.
> >
>
>
He probably would have if he went on SSRIs.....
alexplore_
> >The long term effects are totally unknown.It is a controversial treatment
> >and there
> >is nothing to be gained by anybody to pretend otherwise.
> >It is a distortion to say I claimed they have been proven unsafe.
> >The jury is still out on them.
>
>
years
> now. Thats a pretty damn long time, time enough for long term side effects
to
> show up. They have not shown up. You are full of fucking shit asshole.
>
> In contrast, SSRIs are some of the safest drugs out there.
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >>
> >I dealt with the issues.
>
> problem. See, this is what I mean about you. Its obvious from the things
youve
> said Bob that you have never had major mental illness before. Dealing with
the
> "issues" wont get you out of major depression. Once serotonin levels get
down
> to the level they get to in severe depression they tend to stay down no
matter
> what you do UNLESS you take meds and even then sometimes it can be hard to
> raise the serotoinin levels.
>
> "Issues" is for situational depression and dysthymia (mild depression).
People
> with real true major depression must go on medication or have ECT if they
wish
> to recover...its just that simple Bob.
>
>
> >
> >a)from experience of the effects and personality changes engendered in
> >friends
> >and others.I have seen heathy young people turned into invalids before
their
> >time with all quality
> >of life gone in the name of an unspoken social control
>
into an
> invalid by taking SSRIs or atypical anti-psychotics. And besides, its the
> severe mental illness that will turn a young person into an invalid IF its
left
> untreated.
>
>
> >
> >b)Decades of study of the origins and treatment rationales.
>
illness
> Bob? There are none besides medications. Well, there is ECT too. Talk
therapy
> doesnt work for severe forms of mental illness.
>
>
> >
> >I think the call it Thorazine in the US
> >Young people are also given Haldol,Melleril,and even paraldehyde in some
> >cases
> > and it is barbaric and wrong(IMNSHO)
>
class
> atypical anti-psychotics are being used more and more all the time
replacing
> the old typical anti-psychotics like Haldol and Thorazine. Which I have no
> complaint about getting rid of these older neuroleptics as it is very true
> these older meds have big time potential side effects.
>
> I do think the older neuroleptics still have a solid place in the
treatment of
> persons who who classic schizophrenia or severe mania. These older
neuroleptics
> are very effective at treating psychosis. But I dont think by and large
those
> old neuroleptics should be used for treatment depression or anxiety
problems.
> Probably not even bipolar very much.
>
> If you are a paranoid schizophrenic Bob, you need all the help you can
get. Old
> anti-psychotics like Haldol may improve your quality of life if you are a
> schizophrenic.
>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> >In their effects they seem just like a legal amphetamine which you have
and
> >prescribe in the states.
>
amphetamine
> in any way shape or form. For starters SSRIs and similar ADs dont increase
> dopamine, which is the neurotransmitter increased by amphetamines. SSRIs
> increase serotoinin levels and serotonin is not increased by amphetamines.
Once
> again, when asked about specifics you show loud and clear you dont have a
> fucking clue what you are talking about Bob.
>
> You cant compare antidepressants with amphetamines Bob. Antidepressants
> increase different brain chemicals, they are in a totally different class
of
> drugs than amphetamines.
>
> > To me, it is really bizarre that kids are asked to say no to speed in
the
> >UK
> > but parents are forced to allow their children to have them in the
States.
>
This is
> a free country Bob.
>
> >I am pretty sure there is a Prozac psychosis not unsimilar to the
wellknown
> >amphetamine psychosis
>
scientologist
> brethren and the likes of people like Peter Breggin. There is such a thing
as a
> manic reaction to Prozac and I think this is what you are talking about.
To
> explain this, there is a percentage of persons who are thought to have
> depression but in reality they have bipolar manic depression, which is a
more
> severe disease than depression. What happens is sometimes these bipolar
folks
> get mistakenly put on an SSRI like Prozac and the Prozac "activates" their
> manic episode, flipping them sometimes into a frenzied psychotic state.
This
> does happen sometimes and its unfortunate. It can be prevented simply by
not
> giving SSRIs to those who have bipolar manic depression.
>
> Those of us who are not bipolar do not react this way to SSRIs Bob. And to
> clarify the thing about amphetamine psychosis, this is a well documented
> problem and it usually results from long term usage of amphetamines which
> increases dopamine levels in the brain. Too much dopamine leads to
psychosis
> sometimes.
>
> Once again, SSRIs dont even increase dopamine and dopamine is the
> neurotransmitter associated with psychotic behavior.
>
> >
> >
>
> >Are you saying that some process has started to go on that would have
> >resulted in the suicide of millions?
> >Try to be a bit openminded and read "Suicide" by Emil Durkheim. A
> >sociological classic.
> >I know a fair bit about suicidology.
>
any
> books about suicide or depression written by a non science person such as
a
> sociologist. I could care less what sociologists think about suicide or
major
> depression if you want to know the truth.
>
>
> >Dont be dreary..I have no Bossman least of all a scientology one.
>
>
> >You still havent told me why you have a bee in your bonnet about
> >scientology.
>
call
> huge or anything but its big enough. They are very anti-psychiatry and
> anti-psychiatry medication. Their views sound VERY similar to the things
you
> have said on this NG Bob. Basically identical if you want to know the
truth.
>
> >I have answered lots of your questions honestly.Perhaps you vould answer
> >that one?
>
duck...then
> it probably is a duck. So it probably is with you Bob. I still would bet
that
> you have been directly influenced in some way or another by scientology,
by the
> way you talk, the things you say.
>
>
>
> >I see it as a "dark night of the soul" and a spiritual problem rather
than a
> >chemical one
>
your
> problems with depression Bob.
>
>
> >No I am not actively suicidal.
>
say
> that places you in the "actively suicidal" category.
>
>
> Thanks for the concern if it is genuine
> >I went to ADSM originally whilst you were in hospital,I think.
> >As outrageous as you will find this Andrew was originally the only peron
who
> >gave me support
> >rather than abuse and insane accusations.
>
> drugawareness website he always pushes. Im sure he picked up your anti-med
> tones immediately and jumped all over it. I also would be willing to bet
you
> had a little Email sent your way with a phone number to call and
information
> instructing you to avoid taking SSRIs. Am I right Bob? Of course you
wouldnt
> admit it if it were true so why should I bother asking you?
>
>
>
> >No Im not actively suicidal and its rather shabby to try to use my having
> >confided to discredit
> >arguments about the side-effects of drugs.
>
suicide
> attempt? How long ago was this "recent" suicide attempt? Ive never even
> attempted suicide myself. Thought about it a lot before but never actually
> attempted it and I never will either. Cause I have meds to take that keeps
> those kinds of feelings at bay.
>
> Something does not jive with you Bob. Had a recent suicide attempt yet
refuse
> to admit you are actively suicidal and refuse to take antidepressants.
> Something somewhere is not logical.
>
> >>
> >You cant diagnose people without sharing time and space with them
>
recently
> attempted suicide they should probably be on some form of psychiatric
> medication. We arent making corn flakes here Bob.
>
> >> Do you have psychosis by any chance?
> >>
> >No I have intermittent touches of PTSD but ironically all the torture
> >fantasies
> >and murder plots about Andrew seem to have helped to make me less liable
to
> >trigger.
>
might
> hint towards psychosis if you ask me.
>
> >Zero1 doesnt like the expression but what doesnt kill me makes me strong.
>
saying is
> bullshit Bob. Nobody ever got stronger by enduring mental illness. That is
> BULLSHIT. This disease kills people and makes them disabled. If you call
that
> "making me stronger" then you have rocks for brains Bob.
>
> Last but not least I have this to say to you Bob. GO AWAY!
Lunaticmaster
"alexplore_" <NoMoreDeathThreatsFrom@psych-drug-addicts-please!!> wrote in
message news:9bf8kv$chp$0...@dosa.alt.net...
do you think they cause the illness they are used to treat?
alexplore_
Johan M. Olofsson <j...@spamcop.USENETCABAL.net> wrote in message
news:mfpmdt0t2q56sog5o...@4ax.com...<rj0jdt8u9kcssa89i...@4ax.com>:
>
> > Just to piss you off for coming
> > here with your lil' pinched loaf-brain, I want you to know I've sent
> > your lil' "VOTE YES ON SCI.LANG.SCANDINAVIAN!!!" effort to as many
> > "areas" I can think of, extolling your essence, imploring *all* to
> > vote a big NO to your cause. :) I invite ALL to do the same - spread
> > it around in your work place, on other newsgroups, etc - make sure
> > it's a big NO.
>
> 2) You have NO friends.
> 3) The ballot requires real names.
>
> Your bullshit campaign for NO votes will not acquire a
> single vote. Asshole.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Danmark is the linguistic capital of the world and deserves a new news
group.
>
> VOTE YES ON SCI.LANG.SCANDINAVIAN!!!
>
> Danmark, not just for pastries and pornography anymore.
>
> Just add your name to the pre-filled ballot below and mail
> it to: <bost...@cas.chemistry.gatech.edu>. Don't munge your
> address or the vote will not be counted.
>
>
> ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
> .-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Do not edit anything in this ballot, except to add your name and vote.
> |
> | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: sci.lang.scandinavian
> | Official Usenet Voting Ballot <SLS-0001> (Do not remove this line!)
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> | Please provide a valid name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
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alexplore_
Not "what *I* think". that counts ... side effects, are "there".
ALWAYS it appears...
The drugs produce mental disturbances of their own, which cause other
"symptomologies", then drugs for that... on goes the "cycle".....
of treating the "treatment", etc..
Rather interesting to read of the "treatment" BEING THE DESEASE... Japan had
an interesting "epidemic"... rather famous... Later on the government agreed
to "release" the US drug company from any liability... Interesting...
>
>
>
>
Zero1
<j...@spamcop.USENETCABAL.net> wrote:
>Your bullshit campaign for NO votes will not acquire a
>single vote. Asshole.
Fuck you, loser.
alexplore_
Johan M. Olofsson <j...@spamcop.USENETCABAL.net> wrote in message
news:mfpmdt0t2q56sog5o...@4ax.com...
> Zero1 <ru_wh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
<rj0jdt8u9kcssa89i...@4ax.com>:
>
> > Just to piss you off for coming
> > here with your lil' pinched loaf-brain, I want you to know I've sent
> > your lil' "VOTE YES ON SCI.LANG.SCANDINAVIAN!!!" effort to as many
> > "areas" I can think of, extolling your essence, imploring *all* to
> > vote a big NO to your cause. :) I invite ALL to do the same - spread
> > it around in your work place, on other newsgroups, etc - make sure
> > it's a big NO.
>
> 1) You wouldn't know HOW to fill it out.
> 2) You have NO friends.
> 3) The ballot requires real names.
>
> single vote. Asshole.
>
>
>
>
>
>
alexplore_
patient for 24 YEARS & legal drug eater (prescribed) "struggling with
depression" (& nothing else to do 'cept a LOT of gambling and slutting when
not "battling depression" & CATERWAULING about her "PMS" {later to "PMDD"
for fashion:} POSTED OF HOW SHE HAD "GREAT SEX" WITH A SEMI-IMPOTENT DRUNK
boyfriend ("...for 3 years, every day ...sometimes more then once a day.. ")
{{ her young son <has never been allowed to see his father - only
"boyfriends", sex partners & serial husbands and began having psychiatric
problems during this 3 year period <wonder why?> }}
<gemin...@aol.com> wrote in message news:9bfavr$ff0$1...@news.netmar.com...
> In article <20010415203011...@ng-fj1.aol.com>, The real Third
> Reich <deeps...@aol.com> writes:
> >Bob, Im not going to argue with you forever and ever. Ive been around a
> while
> >now and the things you say ring of someone who has been strongly
influenced
> by
> >the anti-med people. Your insistence that SSRIs are unsafe is unfounded.
> >only persons they are unsafe for are bipolar manic depressives and anyone
> who
> >knows anything about SSRIs will tell you that too.
> >
on
on
> some
> >meds. Trust me, psych meds are totally safe if used properly. When used
> >properly and for the right reasons, psych meds will "build you up" and
not
> tear
> >you down.
> >
ideas
> what
> >exactly is "Largactil" Bob? I never heard of that before.
> >
> nobody
> >uses them anymore hardly. They are dirty drugs and have lots of nasty
> >toxic, dont have strong anti-cholinergic side effects, they are very
cardio
> >friendly and all in all modern class meds like SSRIs make you a better
> person
> >if you are unlucky to have severe depression.
> >
> >Millions and I do mean MILLIONS of depressed persons are alive today due
to
> >SSRIs Bob. Tell that to your scientology bossman the next time you go to
> your
> >weekly meeting.
> >
> >On a serious note Bob, I really do think you are rather unbright to have
had
> a
> >recent suicide attempt as you claim you have had and you are still not on
> the
> >right type of psych med. I dont know what would be the right med for you
> Bob.
> >It might be an SSRI like Prozac. Or perhaps you are bipolar and would do
> much
> >better on a mood stabilizer. Or perhaps you need to take the med
combination
> >route so many are on these days. But I would suggest getting on some meds
> soon
> >if you are actively suicidal. Which specific meds would be for your
Medical
> >Doctor.
> >
> >Get some help soon Bob, you are very ill and your thinking is very
> distorted.
> >You are actively suicidal you claim yet you refuse to go on any psych
meds.
> And
> >you talk all this shit about meds being bad, meds being this, meds being
> that.
> >Something somewhere is not right Bob.
> >
> >Do you have psychosis by any chance?
> >
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >FIDO...Fuck It Drive On
> >
> >
>
> I am glad to see you are 100% yourself again, Eric!
>
> Your strong POV was missed.
PERHAPS YOU CAN GET ERIC TO "SPERM" YOU AGAIN..
YOU BECAME "CLOSE" TO HIM AFTER THAT, DIDN'T YOU? :)
>
> Gemini
alexplore_
> >Eric
> >
> >FIDO...Fuck It Drive On
> >
> >
>
> I am glad to see you are 100% yourself again, Eric!
>
> Your strong POV was missed.
>
> Gemini
>
>
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Zero1
Cuntlerworth <twa...@bungmunch.com> wrote:
>Show some respect, half-pint; lest you get yer little pinko ass smacked like
>the bitch you are.
No half-pint here, oh yea of extreme pussyness meow.
What is it you pussies do? Oh ya, spank spank...
Christ, you're such losers. Just sissyfied punks.
Here rev, have some BITCH slaps!
Wap, wap, WAP!!
That's it, on your knees crying like the fool pussy you are,
just like your Y-boy.
Ya, you sure are the imperial pussy - named yourself quite
correctly...governor twat.
Noticed you punks weren't around yesterday - hypocrites.
Oh, I just noticed your crebral subj line. How clever.
Spend a lot of time coming up with that one, amoeba boy?
Just humiliated the fuck outta me.....not.
Lunaticmaster
drowsiness, etc...
but for others, there are no side effects.
same with any drug. just because a drug has many side effects doesn't mean
each and every person is going to get a certain side effect, or any side
effect at all.
It is only a possibility. IF, the drugs cause side effects, and the doctor
diagnoses that side effect as some other disorder, then that doctor is a
quack. you cannot say that just because one doctor does something stupid
like that, that all do that, you cannot say that just because one drug
causes something, that all cause it.
If they are carefully controlled, the chances of a problem is less likely.
here is something for you to consider. some people have very serious 'side
effects' (allergies) to peanuts. A few can't even touch peanut oil, not even
a drop of it, without a very serious reaction, possibly death, occurring. So
peanuts cause disease and should not be eaten by anyone?
Iron pills can cause upset stomach, and possibly intestinal damage. Because
of that, anyone who is anemic should not take them? they should die of iron
deficiency just because a few people have serious side effects to their use?
"alexplore_" <NoMoreDeathThreatsFrom@psych-drug-addicts-please!!> wrote in
message news:9bfqtn$shr$1...@dosa.alt.net...
bobwhelan
life and in this one ypu say I am psychotic and should be on mindbenders
..can they both be true?
You say you consider me "actively suicidal" (Im not) but the tone you adopt
and the naked hostility and aggression displayed may be why some people
consider you evil and irresponsible.
I dont..I think you feel that what works for you must work for others and,in
your eyes,
you are defending depressed people .
"The real Third Reich" <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010416123030...@ng-mi1.aol.com...
> >The long term effects are totally unknown.It is a controversial treatment
> >and there
> >is nothing to be gained by anybody to pretend otherwise.
> >It is a distortion to say I claimed they have been proven unsafe.
> >The jury is still out on them.
>
>
> BULLSHIT! SSRIs are totally safe asshole. Prozac has been out thirteen
years
> now. Thats a pretty damn long time, time enough for long term side effects
to
> show up. They have not shown up. You are full of fucking shit asshole.
>
> In contrast, SSRIs are some of the safest drugs out there.
>
not for the suicide and murder victims .
> >I dealt with the issues.
>
> Issues? When you have major depression its not the "issues" that are the
> problem. See, this is what I mean about you. Its obvious from the things
youve
> said Bob that you have never had major mental illness before. Dealing with
the
> "issues" wont get you out of major depression. Once serotonin levels get
down
> to the level they get to in severe depression they tend to stay down no
matter
> what you do UNLESS you take meds and even then sometimes it can be hard to
> raise the serotoinin levels.
I havent said dealing with issues was a way out of major depression. Often
if not always severely depressed people need someone to take care of their
pressing issues for them,whilst they heal.
I have often been that person. Dont lecture me on major depression when you
admit you have no experience of it!
Major is LIFE-THREATENING!...People DIE!
>
> "Issues" is for situational depression and dysthymia (mild depression).
People
> with real true major depression must go on medication or have ECT if they
wish
> to recover...its just that simple Bob.
>
>
No ..your patter is simple and no-one knws the "cause" of edogenous
depression...It just comes "out of the blue" as they say.
> >
> >a)from experience of the effects and personality changes engendered in
> >friends
> >and others.I have seen heathy young people turned into invalids before
their
> >time with all quality
> >of life gone in the name of an unspoken social control
>
> From taking modern class psych meds? BULLSHIT Bob. You dont get turned
into an
> invalid by taking SSRIs or atypical anti-psychotics. And besides, its the
> severe mental illness that will turn a young person into an invalid IF its
left
> untreated.
>
Many people become invalids to gain pensions and financial benefits only to
bitterly regret it later when the weight increase and other known,
experienced
and documented side-effects kick in.
In some cases ,it is suspected, this has been aided and abetted in order to
massage unemployment statistics.
>
> >
> >b)Decades of study of the origins and treatment rationales.
>
> Oh yeah? What other real world treatments are there for severe mental
illness
> Bob?
That is a question you should ,perhaps, give serious consideration to,
instead of thinking you know everything!
There are none besides medications.
Do you really think the billions of people who preceded you on this planet
never had serious depressions?
Well, there is ECT too.
It was invented in Mussilinis Italy by Cerletti who noticed in a
slaughterhouse,pigs who were stunned
went willingly to their deaths.
It too is drastic and controversial and in my opinion a barbarism that
future generations will shudder at.
Even so some people feel it has given them a new lease of life or saved
loved ones.
Talk therapy
> doesnt work for severe forms of mental illness.
>
>
It was never intended to.
Patience tolerance and TLC can work miracles though in some cases
rather than dehumanisation.
> >
> >I think the call it Thorazine in the US
> >Young people are also given Haldol,Melleril,and even paraldehyde in some
> >cases
> > and it is barbaric and wrong(IMNSHO)
>
> Well here is one area I agree with you on Bob. Here in the USA the modern
class
> atypical anti-psychotics are being used more and more all the time
replacing
> the old typical anti-psychotics like Haldol and Thorazine. Which I have no
> complaint about getting rid of these older neuroleptics as it is very true
> these older meds have big time potential side effects.
>
> I do think the older neuroleptics still have a solid place in the
treatment of
> persons who who classic schizophrenia or severe mania.
They are more honest in prisons where they call such things a "liquid cosh"
These older neuroleptics
> are very effective at treating psychosis. But I dont think by and large
those
> old neuroleptics should be used for treatment depression or anxiety
problems.
> Probably not even bipolar very much.
>
> If you are a paranoid schizophrenic Bob, you need all the help you can
get. Old
> anti-psychotics like Haldol may improve your quality of life if you are a
> schizophrenic.
>
They make patients more manageable..they cant possibly improve the quality
of life
of the patient..perhaps the ward stakk or relatives.
> >In their effects they seem just like a legal amphetamine which you have
and
> >prescribe in the states.
>
> That is bullshit Bob. Modern class antidepressants do not resemble
amphetamine
> in any way shape or form. For starters SSRIs and similar ADs dont increase
> dopamine, which is the neurotransmitter increased by amphetamines. SSRIs
> increase serotoinin levels and serotonin is not increased by amphetamines.
Once
> again, when asked about specifics you show loud and clear you dont have a
> fucking clue what you are talking about Bob.
It might appear so with the words you put in my mouth.
What class do you consider Ritalin?
It is a halfway house between amphetamine and LSD-25 and contrary to common
belikef is not new at all but was extensively used in the sixties , as was
LSD-25
>
> You cant compare antidepressants with amphetamines Bob. Antidepressants
> increase different brain chemicals, they are in a totally different class
of
> drugs than amphetamines.
>
> > To me, it is really bizarre that kids are asked to say no to speed in
the
> >UK
> > but parents are forced to allow their children to have them in the
States.
>
> No parent is forced to put their children on drugs in the USA asshole.
This is
> a free country Bob.
>
Really..did I imagine the recent outcry about social sevices taking children
into care
when their parents refused to give them for Ritalin and amphetamines that
the schools thought neccessary?
> >I am pretty sure there is a Prozac psychosis not unsimilar to the
wellknown
> >amphetamine psychosis
>
> Wrong there is no Prozac psychosis, that is an invention of your
scientologist
> brethren
Dreary...repetion -compulsion...
and the likes of people like Peter Breggin.
You mean the experts?
The people who have spent their professional lives devoted to the subject?
What kind of logic dictates that if someone is an expert witness
his view is disqualified if you dont agree with it?
There is such a thing as a
> manic reaction to Prozac and I think this is what you are talking about.
To
> explain this, there is a percentage of persons who are thought to have
> depression but in reality they have bipolar manic depression, which is a
more
> severe disease than depression. What happens is sometimes these bipolar
folks
> get mistakenly put on an SSRI like Prozac and the Prozac "activates" their
> manic episode, flipping them sometimes into a frenzied psychotic state.
This
> does happen sometimes and its unfortunate. It can be prevented simply by
not
> giving SSRIs to those who have bipolar manic depression.
People on prozac become loud agressive pushy and full of a false chemically
induced
self-confidence
Just as speedfreaks do.
Eventually they cant function without it.
short term usage to function is one thing.. years of it is quite another.
>
They dish them out like sweets as Im sure you know.
> Those of us who are not bipolar do not react this way to SSRIs Bob. And to
> clarify the thing about amphetamine psychosis, this is a well documented
> problem and it usually results from long term usage of amphetamines which
> increases dopamine levels in the brain. Too much dopamine leads to
psychosis
> sometimes.
>
> Once again, SSRIs dont even increase dopamine and dopamine is the
> neurotransmitter associated with psychotic behavior.
>
> >
At first people dont ..who knows what the long term effects are
if as Indubious suggests people feel it an acceptable risk there is no
problem.
Im arguing for informed consent and unless you wish to advocate
the forcible medication of adults and children I fail to see your problem
> >
>
> >Are you saying that some process has started to go on that would have
> >resulted in the suicide of millions?
> >Try to be a bit openminded and read "Suicide" by Emil Durkheim. A
> >sociological classic.
> >I know a fair bit about suicidology.
>
> Reading books wont get rid of major depression Bob.
dont be facile None would suggest durkheim as a therapy!
I dont need to read any
> books about suicide or depression written by a non science person such as
a
> sociologist. I could care less what sociologists think about suicide or
major
> depression if you want to know the truth.
>
If you want to continue with a woeful ignorance of the causes of suicide
thats up to you.
Its just as well that the Samaritans and Suicide Prevention Centres have a
different view.
As do most responsible psychiatrists,general practioners,nurses and
therapists.
>
> >Dont be dreary..I have no Bossman least of all a scientology one.
>
> Oh sure you dont Bob.
>
> >You still havent told me why you have a bee in your bonnet about
> >scientology.
>
> Bob, scientology is a big "cult" religion here in the USA. Its not what Id
call
> huge or anything but its big enough. They are very anti-psychiatry and
> anti-psychiatry medication. Their views sound VERY similar to the things
you
> have said on this NG Bob. Basically identical if you want to know the
truth.
>
> >I have answered lots of your questions honestly.Perhaps you vould answer
> >that one?
>
> Well Bob, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a
duck...then
> it probably is a duck. So it probably is with you Bob. I still would bet
that
> you have been directly influenced in some way or another by scientology,
by the
> way you talk, the things you say.
>
You have a selective perception that attempts to fit new data into old
perceptual constructs.
>
>
> >I see it as a "dark night of the soul" and a spiritual problem rather
than a
> >chemical one
>
> "dark night of the soul" huh? I can see you are you in serious denial of
your
> problems with depression Bob.
I can see you are a theological illiterate!
>
Once again do you really think people were never suffering from depression
before
your birth and the advent of mindbenders .
Do you think they never came out the other side?
The policeman sees all th crime in society
The doctor sees all the disease
The theologian sees all the stupidity...
>
> >No I am not actively suicidal.
>
> But you just admitted you have had a recent suicide attempt right Bob? Id
say
> that places you in the "actively suicidal" category.
>
You are not qualified to say anything about suicide..you positively glory in
your
lack of knowledge and refuse to even consider learning.
>
> Thanks for the concern if it is genuine
> >I went to ADSM originally whilst you were in hospital,I think.
> >As outrageous as you will find this Andrew was originally the only peron
who
> >gave me support
> >rather than abuse and insane accusations.
>
> Andrew is nothing but a pogue for his little anti-med buddies on that
> drugawareness website he always pushes. Im sure he picked up your anti-med
> tones immediately and jumped all over it. I also would be willing to bet
you
> had a little Email sent your way with a phone number to call and
information
> instructing you to avoid taking SSRIs. Am I right Bob? Of course you
wouldnt
> admit it if it were true so why should I bother asking you?
No..you are totally wrong..I emailed him.
Im sure your hacking virus sending friends have full copies.
My problem was the result of real world trauma.
>
>
>
> >No Im not actively suicidal and its rather shabby to try to use my having
> >confided to discredit
> >arguments about the side-effects of drugs.
>
> How can you not be actively suicidal Bob if you just recently had a
suicide
> attempt? How long ago was this "recent" suicide attempt? Ive never even
> attempted suicide myself. Thought about it a lot before but never actually
> attempted it and I never will either. Cause I have meds to take that keeps
> those kinds of feelings at bay.
I can only advise you to deal with such feelings should they reoccur
but its a bit like trying to explain yellow and blue to a colour-blind man
>
> Something does not jive with you Bob. Had a recent suicide attempt yet
refuse
> to admit you are actively suicidal and refuse to take antidepressants.
> Something somewhere is not logical.
>
logic has nothing to do with it
logic will never prevent suicide..the logical faculties are often in
abeyance
> >>
> >You cant diagnose people without sharing time and space with them
>
> True, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out if someone
recently
> attempted suicide they should probably be on some form of psychiatric
> medication. We arent making corn flakes here Bob.
Your groundless assertions are an insult to many suicidal people.
Would you have given Socrates medication? Or war heroes?
There are many types of suicide with differing motivagtions but you
have already said you have no interest or knowledge of the subject and
whats more wish none.
>
> >> Do you have psychosis by any chance?
> >>
> >No I have intermittent touches of PTSD but ironically all the torture
> >fantasies
> >and murder plots about Andrew seem to have helped to make me less liable
to
> >trigger.
>
> I dont know Bob, you have some pretty non factual ideas, some ideas that
might
> hint towards psychosis if you ask me.
I wasnt aware you had been asked.
>
> >Zero1 doesnt like the expression but what doesnt kill me makes me strong.
>
> Untreated mental illness never made anybody stronger or tougher. That
saying is
> bullshit Bob. Nobody ever got stronger by enduring mental illness
What a foolish and unthinking thing to say.Many heroic achievements and
works of art
and indeed scientific creativity and invention are the product of people
considered crazy .
That is
> BULLSHIT. This disease kills people and makes them disabled. If you call
that
> "making me stronger" then you have rocks for brains Bob.
>
Im not sure what particular"disease" you are talking about but by the nature
of the process
many survivors know they have been empowered
and are unlikely to be disheartened by you.
Even Gemini found it empowring when she had forgotten I quoted it.
> Last but not least I have this to say to you Bob. GO AWAY!
>
You came to me..remember?
>
Last but not least stop pretending that you know more than the worlds
greatest philosophers and geniuses...you simply dont.
Your signature says it all...
You shouldnt be within a hundred miles of a suicidal person
alexplore_
> Well..in one post you say I have never had a severe mental illness in my
> life and in this one ypu say I am psychotic and should be on mindbenders
> ..can they both be true?
Hmmm..... <scratch, scratch....>
> You say you consider me "actively suicidal" (Im not) but the tone you
adopt
> and the naked hostility and aggression displayed may be why some people
> consider you evil and irresponsible.
Hmm....
> I dont..I think you feel that what works for you must work for others
and,in
> your eyes,
> you are defending depressed people .
*Control* by "out of *control* mental cases...
Robert
I detest the side effects of these medications and I have serious
reservations about the long term side effects of them. Such is
implications of taking them. Taking them is something that I think
most suffers struggle with, what I take issue with is when we have all
these contrary thoughts in our minds, I don't think it is fair to
have someone who doesn't fully comprehend the horror of depression to
come along and make a case for non compliance.
Robert
>"alexplore_" <NoMoreDeathThreatsFrom@psych-drug-addicts-please!!> wrote in
>message news:9bf8kv$chp$0...@dosa.alt.net...
>>
>> The real Third Reich <deeps...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20010416123356...@ng-mi1.aol.com...
>> > >Spoken like a man who has not suffered from a debilitating depression,
>> > >I guess ssri's are bad when you don't need them.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Bob Whelan has never had a severe form of mental illness in his life.
>> >
>>
>> He probably would have if he went on SSRIs.....
Come on Andrew, you do not truly believe that do you?
bobwhelan
him..feel I dont know the full horror of depression?news:dngndt0hbf8263uc3...@4ax.com...
bobwhelan
who went on them .
Bob
Robert
I was under the assumption that you didn't suffer from depression.
Robert
You think ssri's cause mental illness?
bobwhelan
self-inflation and false boost to self-esteem that is kind of driven . This
can collapse and lead to a worse condition . Other drugs are then taken to
combat and people can go on a downward spiral..
This is anecdotal and maybe a reflection of the type of patients I come in
contact with but Ive seen many people go down the tubes and end up dependent
..losing jobs..partners.. accomodation with wild behaviour or becoming
totally introverted.
They end up in sheltered accomodation or in a cycle of
hospitalisation/guesthouses/homeless/hospital..etc..the revolving door they
call it here.
Its difficult to tease out the drug effects from underlying problems though
and I wouldnt generalise.
I certainly wouldnt take them . The they seem like a legal amphetamine with
the same problems and seem to be taken as such by some people with bad
consequences socially (stigma) as well as physical and mental problems.
Of couse Eric and others would argue that for major mental illness this is
better that sinking into torpor or becoming unable to function.
Im simply expaining what I meant by "fate and personality changes of
friends". Informed adults have the right to take whatever gets them through
the night.
the list of things they are being prescribed for seems to grow almost daily.
.I mean PMT? Thats the latest I heard of over here!
>