Re: My cure`
Debs
drink water bullshit!! People here are really sick and this is what you
come up with? Come on... you must just like to hear yourself because if
you REALLY believe this crap that you post regularly, then I suggest you
see a psychiatrist. I put you in the category containing, as possible
IBD causes, anti-depressants and the mind, blue cheese, shoes, enzymes
and others. PLEASE enough of this unhelpful craziness... we aren't
talking about a cold here. Get a grip!!
Debs
MindfulMan wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> I cured myself of whatever I had. I don't know if it's crohns or what
> but i'll just throw this out there and hope it helps someone.
>
> I wasn't getting enough fresh air, exercising enough, eating enough
> food, and i wasn't drinking enough water.
>
> First off i increased my water intake to a higher amount. i'm 6'3 175
> lbs. and i live in montana so i am in a indoor heated environment
> which drains me of water. i need more than 3 liters of water a day. i
> am very active daily.
>
> Fresh air is always beneficial. If you are indoors most of the time it
> is likely you are not getting enough fresh air. so open a window
> whenever you can, especially at night.
>
> Then i realized i wasn't eating enough food. i need more than 2,000
> calories daily. the best food to eat for me is a sandwich with plenty
> of vegetables, a hearty bread, and stuffed with meats and some cheese,
> basically plenty of calories.
>
> Breathing helps with digestion. it's something to do with the
> breathing and pressure on the inner part of the body which helps get
> everything moving properly.
>
> I don't know if it is a result of these or it helped me implement
> these but being relaxed and feeling alive, such as is done through
> meditation is always helpful. Good luck to you.
anon
He seems sincere, even if you think he's misguided. And even if you think
his regimen is unilkely to cure Crohn's or any other illness, drinking a lot
of water, getting plenty of fresh air, and eating lots of vegetables
certainly can't be harmful to anyone--certainly his "treatment" is far less
likely to cause serious problems than an officially sanctioned but highly
toxic drug like 6MP (even though the latter might actually help in many
cases!).This is the problem with the unmoderated Usenet--people cannot be
relied upon to express themselves courteously and circumspectly, although
most people do, thankfully. If you consider this man's views off-topic or
even off-the-wall, you can convey this to him in a polite, even tart manner
without being ugly about it. Besides, it seems a bit inappropriate for
anyone with obvious anger-management issues to be thundering advice to
someone else about seeking professional help. There--a taste of your own
medecine: how does it taste?
"Debs" <YOURFOOT...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:69b01uF...@mid.individual.net...
Doc
news:qZydndjF_6Ei0q3V...@earthlink.com:
> Even if you disagree with the poster, there is no reason to be so
> abusive. He seems sincere, even if you think he's misguided. And even
> if you think his regimen is unilkely to cure Crohn's or any other
> illness, drinking a lot of water, getting plenty of fresh air, and
> eating lots of vegetables certainly can't be harmful to
> anyone--certainly his "treatment" is far less likely to cause serious
> problems than an officially sanctioned but highly toxic drug like 6MP
> (even though the latter might actually help in many cases!).This is
> the problem with the unmoderated Usenet--people cannot be relied upon
> to express themselves courteously and circumspectly, although most
> people do, thankfully. If you consider this man's views off-topic or
> even off-the-wall, you can convey this to him in a polite, even tart
> manner without being ugly about it. Besides, it seems a bit
> inappropriate for anyone with obvious anger-management issues to be
> thundering advice to someone else about seeking professional help.
> There--a taste of your own medecine: how does it taste?
As someone who admits they aren't a doctor, where do you get off
diagnosing and then suggesting a treatment?
Most intelligent people will read a newsgroup for a while, before
posting, to get a feel for the group and what goes on. Had you done
this, you would know that "Mindfulman" has been posting his opinion for
quite a while, slightly altering it from time to time, but continually
posting. It has gotten old and annoying.
It is difficult to see how you can think that his treatment isn't
harmful. Substituting breathing, water and vegetables for medication?
Sounds dangerous to me.
Of course, you didn't come here to discuss anything in a polite manner
yourself, you just came to talk about a pet "treatment" that doesn't
even exist yet. Then went on to rudely add your two cents.
anon
said, Doc (who is not a doctor) that those measures are not HARMFUL IN AN
DOF THEMSELVES. You should really go out and get a college degree,
specializing in remedial reading courses for yourself.
Second, I made it clear that I was not really giving medical advice--I was
merely giving "Debs" a taste of her own medicine--SHE was the one who rather
nastily and rudely referred the original poster for psychiatric
care--complete with vulgar language. But all that seem just fine with you,
right, Doc? Seems you're a bit of a hypocrite as well as a raging dolt. Tsk,
tsk.
"Doc" <d...@oeltd.spam.yechh.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AA25FC3...@216.168.3.44...
Debs
umm... tastes like chicken!
Debs
PS see how I use my real name ANON...
Debs
be questionable. Is that really the word you meant to use? So I can
express myself using nice words but say crap and that would be fine? Is
THAT what you are saying? If so then I hope you DO what mindfulman has
posted over and over and over again. And by the way, good luck with
that. Was that courteously enough? Does it pass your bar for usenet
posting? Have you made up these'rules' on your own? Are you trying to
moderate an unmoderated group? Maybe you should just stick to those
groups instead. By the way, I am a research scientist but NOT a Dr. Does
that make you feel better too?
Debs
anon
straws here in your desperate effort to justify your unjustifiable and
shamefully abusive rant? Obviously, chances are that he does not have a
stricture because he has reported no obstructive symptoms. IN GENERAL,
eating vegetables is good for a human being, and even well-cooked vegetables
can be fine for some people with IBD--it varies from case to case. But if
you're psychic as well as a paragon of angry abuse and can diagnose the guts
and the psyches of people you've never met, then you should take your show
on the road.
"Debs" <YOURFOOT...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:69b7thF...@mid.individual.net...
anon
to unwarranted conclusions about the digestive and mental condition of
someone you've never met, much less examined as a qualified physician, which
you are obviously not--no physician would engage in such reckless and
abusive behavior toward an anonymous person on a newsgroup--it would violate
the first and most important principle of the Hippocratic oath: "First do no
harm." And you have done a great deal of harm to this person with your foul
language and abusive taunts.
Obviously I can impose no rules on Usenet. But I am free to suggest that
people not behave abusively and recklessly--as you have in this case.
However, if you find that it's somehow essential to your sense of self to
pride yourself on such repellent behavior, such a foul outpouring of
abuse--if you're out here to declare that that's who you are, and proud of
it--then knock yourself out. And take a long look in the mirror while you're
at it to see if you reallly like what you see. Maybe you do--which would be
all the more pathetic.news:69b8faF...@mid.individual.net...
dj
It appears (under this "anon" signature) that you have just found this
group and therefor would have no experience with "Mindful Man". If you
are accessing this newsgroup through Google you can click on "view
profile" you will see that this is not the first of his "advice"
posts. This one was relatively mild and innocuous. But in the category
of "reckless and abusive behavior"...he often will state he has the
"cure"...that is irresponsible. The following is just 1 of the 158
post he has done in the past 9 months. It's one thing to offer what
has worked for him...it's totally another to tell people something
like this...
>From: MindfulMan <parker.michaelspar...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Thurs, Apr 10 2008 11:16 pm
Subject: Re: 6-MP
Crohn's disease is cured. Do not trust your doctor. Your doctor will
lie to you and tell you there is no cure and no one knows the cause.
There is a cure and many know the cause. The cause is extreme
dehydration over a period of time. The cure is drinking plenty of
water. Plenty meaning even more than maintaining yourself with
water,
but improving yourself with water. Lots of water. <
Debs is only expressing what many of us who are regulars readers and
unfortunately sufferers of IBD feel. It gets a little tiresome and
then downright aggravating to have this person continually post such
dangerous advice. Anyone new (like yourself) may get hooked into his
rantings and we are just trying to warn anyone reading his posts to
read with caution. Maybe it seemed to you like Debs went over the top
to this one post...but here is a synopsis of what we've endured from
him...
He tells us to breathe fresh air while he is a self-confessed
marijuana user. He tells us breathe fresh air, but sits in one room of
his house with his dog that he is allergic to while he hides from his
mother. (New Cure for Crohns, Aug 2007, End Drug Companies, Cure
Crohns Disease, Aug 2007, Breathing Patterns 2007)
He told us on Aug 6 2007 that he would no longer post on this forum
because of all the negativity he was receiving...then continued for
another 8 months and 100+ posts, including 31 times in the same thread
after he said he wasn't going to post anymore.
(End Drug Companies, Cure Crohns Disease, Aug 2007)
He suggested that we pay him for his "advice" instead of paying
doctors and pharmaceutical companies. (ulcerative colitis, Aug 2007)
He proceeded to share with us his own personal process for
masterbation. (The Proof is in the Pudding, Aug 2007)
Get the picture?
After that he posted less and less frequently until he totally
disappeared in Nov 2007...now he is back with the same ol' drivel,
expected to catch a whole new set of followers, I suspect. He often
mentions a book and his own usenet group.
And this is only what he has done on asc-c...his profile shows he
spreads his garbage on other sites...but if you attempt to access
his...you are asked to register. Hmmm...
So maybe now you can understand why Debs said what she said.
anon
that "Debs" poured on this guy. The stench she added to this thread is just
as bad as anything you quoted from this guy--worse, in a way.
"dj" <johns...@cheshire.net> wrote in message
news:f099b03b-89e7-435d...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
dj
> He can be dismissed or countered without the foul heap of personal abuse
> that "Debs" poured on this guy. The stench she added to this thread is just
> as bad as anything you quoted from this guy--worse, in a way.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Okay, I get it now. You aren't here to look for or offer support on
IBD. You are just trolling around looking to start a fight. Buh-bye.
Doc
news:kNqdnf1Hio3--q3V...@earthlink.com:
> Of course his treatment would be harmful if SUBSTITUTED for
> medication. I said, Doc (who is not a doctor) that those measures are
> not HARMFUL IN AN DOF THEMSELVES. You should really go out and get a
> college degree, specializing in remedial reading courses for yourself.
>
> Second, I made it clear that I was not really giving medical advice--I
> was merely giving "Debs" a taste of her own medicine--SHE was the one
> who rather nastily and rudely referred the original poster for
> psychiatric care--complete with vulgar language. But all that seem
> just fine with you, right, Doc? Seems you're a bit of a hypocrite as
> well as a raging dolt. Tsk, tsk.
Yes, the above does prove you to be a complete hypocrit. Talking of
politeness and then being rude.
And condescending...
I reckon you are the one in need...
anon
behavior. I have not been abusive to you. I pointed out the repugnance of
what Debs did. Yet you have defended a post that calls someone, in effect,
mentally ill and characterizes their views as "bullshit." That's OK with
you? Do you have no sense of decency or values? Or do you just want to feel
part of a clique? Is your life that pathetic and empty that you have to
defend your little pals out here, no matter how disgusting their behavior?
"dj" <johns...@cheshire.net> wrote in message
news:9c8774a6-4daf-4959...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
anon
Explain this: "Debs" entered this thread with an abusive post that
characterized someone's views as "buillshit" and recommended that he seek
psychiatric care. Yet you uttered not a syllable of reproach for that. You
entered the thread only to DEFEND "Debs"''s disgusting rant. If you are
sincerely concerned about human decency, why did you not object to Deb's
abusive post? Why do you continue to defend it? Because you are more
concerned with proving your personal loyalty to you "clique" than adhering
to any kind of intellectual or moral consistency. For you it's not the
content of a post that counts, but who posts it. That's pretty petty and
infantile.
Doc
news:q62dnSMmVr6vAa3V...@earthlink.com:
And yet what have you brought to the discussion?
Not a thing. No information regarding whether or not this is a good idea,
no discussion on the merits of this "cure"... just an attack at one of the
other people who post here.
You can't even refrain from posting abusively yourself, so you have
nothing.
anon
You have completely dodged my question:
Why haven't you spoken up about "Deb"s's foul stream of abuse? Don't change
the subject. Stand up like a man and answer the question. Why do you fail to
speak up against abuse if it comes from your pals? Do you really care about
abuse or just maintaining loyalty to a clique, even at the price of gross
hypocrisy?
Explain why you did not object to Debs's abusive post--if abuse is really
your concern, that it, which I doubt.
Simon Scott
> Cut the CRAP!! I am so sick and tired of hearing the breathe air and
> drink water bullshit!! People here are really sick and this is what you
well said Debs!
anon
someone had emotional or psychological problems, heaping this kind of scorn
and abuse on him would be the LAST thing a decent, compassionate human being
would do--but the first thing a hopelessly cruel "human" being would do.
Shame on your for endorsing this vile abuse. You should be ashamed of
yourself.
And exactly what was "well said"? "Bullshit"? "Crap"? Any enraged
fourth-grader can spew that. Recommending psychiatric care to someone you've
never met? If this is your idea of "well said," you must be quite the
charmer at a dinner party.
"Simon Scott" <scotty...@amnet.net.au> wrote in message
news:12111571...@angel.amnet.net.au...
AprilReign25
> Well said if you're a cruel, nasty human being. If you really thought
> someone had emotional or psychological problems, heaping this kind of scorn
> and abuse on him would be the LAST thing a decent, compassionate human being
> would do--but the first thing a hopelessly cruel "human" being would do.
> Shame on your for endorsing this vile abuse. You should be ashamed of
> yourself.
> And exactly what was "well said"? "Bullshit"? "Crap"? Any enraged
> fourth-grader can spew that. Recommending psychiatric care to someone you've
> never met? If this is your idea of "well said," you must be quite the
> charmer at a dinner party.
>
>
> news:12111571...@angel.amnet.net.au...
>
> > On Sun, 18 May 2008 11:26:22 -0400, Debs wrote:
>
> >> Cut the CRAP!! I am so sick and tired of hearing the breathe air and
> >> drink water bullshit!! People here are really sick and this is what you
>
> > well said Debs!
i hardly ever post - so i am not part of a "clique" but I have also
read/contributed posts over the span of time since i was first
diagnosed w/ CD in 2001. One of the first things that struck me was
how hotly disputed it was when those who a) presume to know a "cure"
for Crohn's posted a bunch of "crap" and it *is* crap -OR- b) tried to
SELL a bunch of "crap" to this group.
I mostly listened then. I think, "anon" if you had done that, you
would have a far greater appreciation for how much those types
*pollute* this group with their...uhm....crap. If there is a lack of
circumspection here, i believe it is yours, since you know so little
about this group, or about "mindfulman" or any of the others who post
here. The way you jumped right in & nothing you said since added
anything of value - except the same kind of indignation you were
(hypocritically) railing against yourself.
Then you might appreciate why Debs said what she did. I do, I know it
was posts from Debs and other longer-term members here who have helped
me a lot initially to critically scrutinize the kinds of claims being
made by "snake oil salesman" & irrational kooks. One of the first
"rules of 'Netiquette'" is getting to know a group better before you
dive right in & assailing others without knowing more about why she
posted what she did or what other people here have to say about such
behavior. Personally I am grateful for the mindful dedication towards
helping "noobs" from being taken in by scammers.
Being newly dx'ed with Crohns or UC - people are very vulnerable,
which I say speaking from experience. From the sound of your last
post, i can only imagine the spittle on your screen, but I hope you
really reconsider the merits of attacking someone for something you
don't even know much about why.
Debs, I read your post and was not the least offended - my first
thought was, "Thank God someone here is still looking out after the
newbies who are facing this illness with little information and
seeking answers, to help them not be taken in"
anon
and sour posters are. If you are so credulous that you need someone heaping
vile abuse on someone else to set you straight about what is obviously a
crank "cure," then you've got more problems than can be addressed in a
newsgroup.
There are plenty of ways in which to address a post such as the one that
led off this thread. If anyone is sufficiently offended by this guy's
claims--then just killfile him. If you really believe that anything
constructive is EVER accomplished by pouring vulgar invective on another
human being and, still worse, making cruel innuendoes about their mental
health, then you are are nasty and callous as "Debs," who has a long history
of this kind of abusive posting. There is no "newbie" so witless as to need
a vicious conflict addict to set them straight on what is obviously a crank
post. Note that no one even expressed any interest in or curiosity about
this "cure," so off the wall was it--yet Debs still felt obliged to disgorge
her bellyful of bile, to no particular end except to prove what a vicious
person she is.
If this were a moderated group, a hateful post like the one from Debs
would have have seen the light of day. Your applauding it puts you squarely
in the camp of cruelty and viciousness. Congratulations.
"AprilReign25" <AprilR...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a30cff6f-2403-4e8f...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
anon
> If this were a moderated group, a hateful post like the one from Debs
> would NEVER have have seen the light of day. Your applauding it puts you
zumon...@yahoo.com
I've combined many of your posts in this thread to disagree with you.
anon wrote:
> Even if you disagree with the poster, there is no reason to be so abusive.
You're seem to be new here and haven't seen this person's posts
before, it is the same nonsense repeated time and again, and then some
more. People have tried to reason with him, asked him to go
elsewhere, heaped abuse on him and none of it has any effect.
> He seems sincere, even if you think he's misguided.
He is sincere and I don't not think he is misguided, I know he is and
can prove it. But only if you understand science and evidence.
> And even if you think
> his regimen is unilkely to cure Crohn's or any other illness, drinking a lot
> of water, getting plenty of fresh air, and eating lots of vegetables
> certainly can't be harmful to anyone
Wrong. People with CD often have narrowing in the intestines due to
the disease or perhaps due to adhesions (scaring) from surgery. Many
people with CD can't eat high fiber foods though this varies a lot.
Read up on “bowel obstruction”, even a partial obstruction is
considered serious enough to hospitalize a person.
But he wasn't advocating eating vegetables, he was advocating eating
more food. He mentioned meat, bread, cheese, vegetables.
Then there's the nonsense phrase “fresh air”. What is fresh air?
Can you find any in a large city? How about in farming country when
herbicides or pesticides are being applied?
> --certainly his "treatment" is far less
> likely to cause serious problems than an officially sanctioned but highly
> toxic drug like 6MP (even though the latter might actually help in many
> cases!).
If his suggestions were without risk, which they aren't, your
statement would be true, but it displays an ignorance of risk /
benefit analysis. With scientific medicine, done correctly, a
medication is given if the risks of using it are out weighed by the
benefits of using it. 6MP can slow disease progression in Crohn's,
there is no evidence that drinking water will.
anon wrote:
> Of course his treatment would be harmful if SUBSTITUTED for medication. I
> said, Doc (who is not a doctor) that those measures are not HARMFUL IN AN
> DOF THEMSELVES. You should really go out and get a college degree,
> specializing in remedial reading courses for yourself.
He is advocating “curing Crohn's” by drinking water, eating more
food and getting something called “fresh air”. He doesn't say you
need any medications to effect his “cure”. A previous post of his was
titled “End Drug Companies, Cure Crohn's Disease!”, he is not a fan of
modern medications.
We know Doc isn't a doctor. He's never claimed to be one. Why do
you think either he or the rest of us need this pointed out? Do you
have trouble separating nicknames from other words?
anon wrote:
> For you it's not the
> content of a post that counts, but who posts it. That's pretty petty and
> infantile.
Throughout this thread you keep mentioning people's response to “one
post” but the response you're seeing isn't from one post but many,
many almost identical, nonsensical posts. You've been told this
multiple times and one person told you how you could read his previous
posts for yourself.
anon wrote:
> Why haven't you spoken up about "Deb"s's foul stream of abuse?
Why should he? Deb's told an inconsiderate idiot to go away. From
past experience here, it won't have any more effect than asking him
politely to leave.
> Explain why you did not object to Debs's abusive post--if abuse is really
> your concern, that it, which I doubt.
Read his first post to you. His subject, which you keep trying to
change, was about “diagnosing and then suggesting a treatment“, not
abuse. He did point out that while you condemned Deb's for its
insults, you then insulted her.
I guess she deserved it, since she insulted someone else first?
anon wrote:
> How do you know that this man has a stricture?
This post was to this group, one that typically gets the sickest IBD
sufferers. People with mild IBD don't need as much support. I do
have a stricture and Mr. Parker's advice was posted to me as well.
> Or are you just grasping at straws here in your desperate effort to justify your unjustifiable and
> shamefully abusive rant?
No, just pointing out a common problem that people with Crohn's get.
Maybe you should read up on the disease, you don't seem familiar with
it from what I've read in your posts.
I suggest checking the archives of this group, there a lot of useful
information, some nonsense and plenty of links to follow.
> IN GENERAL,
> eating vegetables is good for a human being
This is not a general population group, tt is a sub population many
of whom have trouble with some or all high fiber foods.
anon wrote:
> Circumspectly means "prudently" and "cautiously"--that is, without jumping
> to unwarranted conclusions
> And you have done a great deal of harm to this person with your foul
> language and abusive taunts.
Really? How do you know that her post has done “a great deal of
harm”? People have insulted him in the past and the behavior we can
observe hasn't changed. Looks to me that you are “jumping
to unwarranted conclusions”.
If Mr. Parker;s psyche is so fragile that having one person call his
idiotic ideas “crap”, “bullshit” and “unhelpful craziness” has done “a
great deal of harm” then he is too fragile to be reading responses to
his posts.
anon wrote:
> The stench she added to this thread is just
> as bad as anything you quoted from this guy--worse, in a way.
Deb's insulted one person. Mr. Parker offered unwise and potentially
dangerous advice to many people.
anon wrote:
> Are you serious? I am the one who pointed out someone ELSE's abusive
> behavior. I have not been abusive to you. I pointed out the repugnance of
> what Debs did.
And in that post you were abusive to Debs and in your next post were
abusive to Doc.
> Yet you have defended a post that calls someone, in effect,
> mentally ill and characterizes their views as "bullshit."
No, she explained why Debs is angry with Mr. Parker, dj did not
defend it. An explanation is not an excuse.
> That's OK with
> you? Do you have no sense of decency or values? Or do you just want to feel
> part of a clique? Is your life that pathetic and empty that you have to
> defend your little pals out here, no matter how disgusting their behavior?
You try to twist what people say, insult people repeatably and wonder
why you get called a Troll? Someone isn't bothered by the words
“crap” and “bullshit” and you ask if they have “no sense of decency or
values?”
Hold on a minute. “Shit!” Bullcrap!” “Oh poo!” Yes, yes I still
have a sense of decency AND values.
anon wrote:
> I know plenty about this group--enough to know who the chronically abrasive
> and sour posters are. If you are so credulous that you need someone heaping
> vile abuse on someone else to set you straight about what is obviously a
> crank "cure," then you've got more problems than can be addressed in a
> newsgroup.
And statements like this add to the growing body of evidence that you
are not here to get or give support but to stir up trouble.
Earlier you called Mr. Parker's advice harmless, now its a “crank
cure”.
Debs called Mr. Parker's idea “crap”, “bullshit” and “unhelpful
craziness”, she said “Come on... you must just like to hear yourself
because if you REALLY believe this crap that you post regularly, then
I suggest you see a psychiatrist.“ You consider this “vile abuse” and
a “foul stream of abuse”?
> There are plenty of ways in which to address a post such as the one that
> led off this thread. If anyone is sufficiently offended by this guy's
> claims--then just killfile him.
And if you want to counter the unwise advice being offered? If we
all remain silent, misinformation like his will go unchallenged.
If you were sufficiently offended by Debs post, why didn't you
killfile her?
> There is no "newbie" so witless as to need
> a vicious conflict addict to set them straight on what is obviously a crank
> post.
False. If this were true, then someone like Mr. Parker wouldn't have
picked up such idiotic ideas in the first place.
> If this were a moderated group, a hateful post like the one from Debs
> would have have seen the light of day.
If this was a moderated group, Debs post would not have been needed;
Mr. Parker's post wouldn't have seen the light of day.
You've condemned several people for making insults or supporting an
insulting post. Your posts contain many insults, for instance:
> Besides, it seems a bit inappropriate for
> anyone with obvious anger-management issues to be thundering advice to
> someone else about seeking professional help.
> You should really go out and get a college degree,
> specializing in remedial reading courses for yourself.
> Well said if you're a cruel, nasty human being.
You've said “If you really believe that anything constructive is
EVER accomplished by pouring vulgar invective on another human being
and, still worse, making cruel innuendoes about their mental health,
then you are are nasty and callous as "Debs,".
Let me see, there's the vulgar invective and there are the cruel
innuendos. So by your own statements in this thread, you are as nasty
and callous as Debs.
I agree with dj. Based on your posts in this thread, you behave like
a Troll.
You insult people.
You complain if they write something you see as an insult.
You accuse people of defending a post even when they haven't.
You constantly twist what people say and feebly attempt to make them
look bad.
If someone raises a valid point (e.g. strictures) you ineffectively
try to change the discussion to make it look like an invalid point.
You accuse people of behaving badly even as you behave in the same
ways.
Trolls typically try baiting other users into an emotional response
and generally try to disrupt normal discussion. Your posts in this
thread fit that pattern.
HTH,
--
Luke
Normin
"anon" <shopa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sdidna1mhf0hY63V...@earthlink.com...
If this was a moderated group, all the crank and prank posts
would not make it either, and folks would not feel they had to
respond like Debs did to a bothersome spammer.
Folks come here to learn about their disease, to find others who
are in the same position and share stories related to the
diseases. I see why so many of the old regulars have given up on
this group -- it's really been polluted by garbage. Sad that
they've allowed that to chase them away, but I understand why
they choose not to continue to fight a losing battle.
Sara
anon
person" Week!
"Normin" <norminf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:qI-dndBEDauC96zV...@wideopenwest.com...
anon
that, although some people with Crohns cannot tolerate fruits and
vegetables, others can, especially if they're well cooked. Thousands of
people have reported improvement, for example, with the SCD diet, which
encourages liberal consumption of fruits and vegetables. As I've also
already pointed out, this, like many other matters related to IBD, varies
from case to case.
The original poster's message was both harmless AND a crank
post--obviously. He admitted, first off, that he wasn't even sure that he
has Crohn's! Right there any half-wit will know not to take the post
seriously--it's easy enough to get diagnosed properly! As for drinking lots
of water and getting fresh air, those are most certainly harmless
activities--if you really believe there's someone dopey enough to take this
guy as their guru. As for fruits and vegetables, see above.
Most moderated groups allow posts within a certain latitude of opinion
as long as they are not personally abusive. I think that the original
poster's message was essentially innocuous and certainly not personally
offensive. By contrast, Deb's post was a fusillade of personal abuse, from
the intemperate, foul language to, more importantly, her suggestion that the
poster seek psychiatric help--a gross form of personal abuse that, I notice,
you conveniently censored from your recap of her remarks.
Obviously, the way to handle this would be to post a message to the
group as a whole stating that this guy is a chronic offender with quack
cures and that the unwary should stand forewarned. That would be just as
effective without all the vicious personal attack.
The mere fact that you defend such creepy hostility and abuse puts you
on a moral and ethical par with Debs--in the toilet of personal ethics.
For the benefit of Debs and the other "clique" members out here who have
come to the defense of the indefensible, I declare this "Pour vile abuse on
an emotionally disturbed person Week." I hope that you and your fellow
ethical disabled posters have a great time finding vulnerable and disturbed
people to abuse and ridicule in public. Knock yourselves out!
Carole Allen
wrote:
That's because Mindful Man has posted lots of prior stuff, much of
which is rambling nonsense, and if you review his archived posts you
will see that he does indeed seem to need some form of psychiatric
intervention. Although his last post was somewhat benign, that cannot
be said for some of his prior posts.
You may be new here; Debs and Doc and Vanny and Paul P and others are
not, and are familiar with the general content of Mindful Man and his
ideas.
Carole Allen
wrote:
>How do you know that this man has a stricture? Or are you just grasping at
>straws here in your desperate effort to justify your unjustifiable and
>shamefully abusive rant? Obviously, chances are that he does not have a
>stricture because he has reported no obstructive symptoms. IN GENERAL,
>eating vegetables is good for a human being, and even well-cooked vegetables
>can be fine for some people with IBD--it varies from case to case. But if
>you're psychic as well as a paragon of angry abuse and can diagnose the guts
>and the psyches of people you've never met, then you should take your show
>on the road.
>
Whether or not HE has a stricture is not the issue. He is suggesting
he cured what he had in part by eating lots of vegetables. If someone
with a stricture reads that and tries to do the same, based on his
claimed "cure," of his undiagnosed condition (he wasn't diagnosed of
CD or UC) - Bingo...BAD reaction.
anon
for them--and now you--to rationalize the kind of vulgar, scurrilous rant
that Debs launched against this guy--an ugly spew that would have been
barred from any responsible, moderated group.
As I've already pointed out, if someone is posting what someone views a
chronic disinformation, it would be quite enough to counter it with a post
to the effect that this poster has been posting quack cures on this list for
some time--newcomers beware. Something like that. But belching up "bullshit"
this and "crap" that and "go see a psychiatrist," etc., accomplishes nothing
except contributing to the total sum of hate and spite in the
universe--which you have now ratified with your endorsement. Congratulations
on your wonderful sense of ethical and spiritual priorities.
"Carole Allen" <caro...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4832336b...@news.individual.net...
Carole Allen
wrote:
> There are plenty of ways in which to address a post such as the one that
>led off this thread. If anyone is sufficiently offended by this guy's
>claims--then just killfile him.
Killfiling him does not alert the newbies who are desperate for some
form of relief and reassurance that he is a kook and that what he
suggests can be dangerous for them.
anon
people are dumb enough to just jump right into his regimen with no further
thought or inquiry?
As I've already pointed out, if someone is posting what someone views a
chronic disinformation, it would be quite enough to counter it with a post
to the effect that this poster has been posting quack cures on this list for
some time--newcomers beware. Something like that. But belching up "bullshit"
this and "crap" that and "go see a psychiatrist," etc., accomplishes nothing
except contributing to the total sum of malice and spite in the
universe--which you have now ratified with your endorsement. Congratulations
on your warped sense of ethical and spiritual priorities. That's quite a
confederacy of callous, cruel people you're cozying up to out here.
"Carole Allen" <caro...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:48323446...@news.individual.net...
anon
chronic disinformation, it would be quite enough to counter it with a post
to the effect that this poster has been posting quack cures on this list for
some time--newcomers beware. Something like that. But belching up "bullshit"
this and "crap" that and "go see a psychiatrist," etc., accomplishes nothing
except contributing to the total sum of malice and spite in the
universe--which you have now ratified with your endorsement. Congratulations
on your warped sense of ethical and spiritual priorities. That's quite a
confederacy of callous, cruel people you're cozying up to out here.
"Carole Allen" <caro...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:483235f0...@news.individual.net...
Dwight
Bad information is dangerous information. There are some with chronic
illnesses that will jump at any possible "cure" without research or any
type of documentation. Sometimes it takes a non-PC approach to make sure
that people are protected from ideas that range from worthless to
dangerous. I left this group because of the quacks that were taking over
at the time, not sure why I am getting involved at this time other than
to tell people to be weary of information that starts with "Cure". Sorry
to interrupt your discussion, but I can't stand to see anyone use the
word "cure" for a chronic illness without a cure.
Dwight (where is Billy Goat Gruff when you need him)
anon
Just what are you saying--that it's "PC" not to be ugly, cruel, and abusive
to people when it would do just as well to post a general informative
announcement about the poster's quackery without all the vile abuse? Are you
quite serious? Not being cruel or abusive has nothing to do with politics,
correct or otherwise. It has to do with basic human decency--something you
would obviously not recognize if it slammed into your forehead.
"Dwight" <Dwight@not_real.com> wrote in message
news:PWqYj.4920$nW2....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
Dwight
> Dwight--
> Just what are you saying--that it's "PC" not to be ugly, cruel, and abusive
> to people when it would do just as well to post a general informative
> announcement about the poster's quackery without all the vile abuse? Are you
> quite serious? Not being cruel or abusive has nothing to do with politics,
> correct or otherwise. It has to do with basic human decency--something you
> would obviously not recognize if it slammed into your forehead.
>
bumped my forehead while trying to be polite. You really are on a roll
aren't you. I have never used abusive language to make my point and will
do my best not to, but sometimes a warning needs some emphasis to make
it more effective or to grab your attention, apparently it got your
attention. I really don't care what you think of me, you can ridicule me
if you like, I just don't want anyone being harmed because they followed
some bad advise they received from from this group. I personally would
rather have someone use abusive language in a warning than not warning
me at all. I care more about the warning than the abusive language. Good
night.
Dwight (Politely Civil)
anon
The choicie is not between using abusive language to warn people or not
warning people at all. The choice is between warning people nonabusively and
not warning people at all. There is NEVER an ethical need to warn people
abusively. The fact that you keep insisting that there is shows that your
loyalty to your clique transcends your sense of moral and ethical principle.
Sad indeed.
"Dwight" <Dwight@not_real.com> wrote in message
news:sdsYj.2266$l97....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
Jeff
up. I'm hoping to find information that may help me as I'm having a bad
flare at the moment.
Since I read a little on this thread I couldn't help to comment.
While I have been a proponent of alternative therapies in the past, I try to
recognize them for what they are and understand their place in the entire
treatment arena.
I'd sure like to think that by practicing the advice of Mindfulman would
"cure" you but the fact that he says "I don't know if it was Crohn's or not"
say to me - NOT. If indeed he had Crohns he would surely know it, and would
likely have had all the tests, been in and out of hosipitals, and gone
through a lot more medical procedures then the average Mindfulman. And
probably be a little more mindful hopefully of the reality of these
diseases.
I don't dispute that some simple things can make a difference, and possibly
in mild cases may even erradicate symptoms. But I think there are a lot of
other factors involved and it's really simplistic and naive to think these
simple things will have much of an effect for the majority of people
suffering from IBD.
I don't doubt his sincerity, just think it's naive. I also understand Debs
frustration with this type of advice. These diseases suck, to put it midly,
and would try a Saint's patience. And for those people who have suffered for
years and spent countless hours studying, reading and learning about their
disease it can seem like a slap in the face to have to listen to someone
throwing out advice that is not rooted in a great deal of knowledge and
experience on the subject.
Anyway, I still hope that these disparate positions can somehow co-exist as
they could just be different pieces of the puzzle. How that puzzle is put
together will differ for each individual.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
tx
Jeff
"MindfulMan" <parker.mic...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:51b93807-2c7f-4d53...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
>
> I cured myself of whatever I had. I don't know if it's crohns or what
> but i'll just throw this out there and hope it helps someone.
>
> I wasn't getting enough fresh air, exercising enough, eating enough
> food, and i wasn't drinking enough water.
>
> First off i increased my water intake to a higher amount. i'm 6'3 175
> lbs. and i live in montana so i am in a indoor heated environment
> which drains me of water. i need more than 3 liters of water a day. i
> am very active daily.
>
> Fresh air is always beneficial. If you are indoors most of the time it
> is likely you are not getting enough fresh air. so open a window
> whenever you can, especially at night.
>
> Then i realized i wasn't eating enough food. i need more than 2,000
> calories daily. the best food to eat for me is a sandwich with plenty
> of vegetables, a hearty bread, and stuffed with meats and some cheese,
> basically plenty of calories.
>
> Breathing helps with digestion. it's something to do with the
> breathing and pressure on the inner part of the body which helps get
> everything moving properly.
>
> I don't know if it is a result of these or it helped me implement
> these but being relaxed and feeling alive, such as is done through
> meditation is always helpful. Good luck to you.
dbdm...@aol.com
> Cut the CRAP!! I am so sick and tired of hearing the breathe air and
> drink water bullshit!! People here are really sick and this is what you
> you REALLY believe this crap that you post regularly, then I suggest you
> IBD causes, anti-depressants and the mind, blue cheese, shoes, enzymes
> and others. PLEASE enough of this unhelpful craziness... we aren't
> talking about a cold here. Get a grip!!
>
> Debs
>
>
>
> MindfulMan wrote:
> > Hi all,
>
> > I cured myself of whatever I had. I don't know if it's crohns or what
> > but i'll just throw this out there and hope it helps someone.
>
> > I wasn't getting enough fresh air, exercising enough, eating enough
> > food, and i wasn't drinking enough water.
>
> > First off i increased my water intake to a higher amount. i'm 6'3 175
> > lbs. and i live in montana so i am in a indoor heated environment
> > which drains me of water. i need more than 3 liters of water a day. i
> > am very active daily.
>
> > Fresh air is always beneficial. If you are indoors most of the time it
> > is likely you are not getting enough fresh air. so open a window
> > whenever you can, especially at night.
>
> > Then i realized i wasn't eating enough food. i need more than 2,000
> > calories daily. the best food to eat for me is a sandwich with plenty
> > of vegetables, a hearty bread, and stuffed with meats and some cheese,
> > basically plenty of calories.
>
> > Breathing helps with digestion. it's something to do with the
> > breathing and pressure on the inner part of the body which helps get
> > everything moving properly.
>
> > I don't know if it is a result of these or it helped me implement
> > these but being relaxed and feeling alive, such as is done through
>
> - Show quoted text -
Debs.... i've been reading this newsgroup since i first heard the
words "Crohns disease" when i was diagnosed in 1998. i got LOTS of
very helpful advice here and was better able to talk to my doctors(as
well as let some of them go when they wouldn't listen at all to me)and
have successfully(knocking on wood)kept myself from having to have any
surgeries by being very vigilant in my ongoing search for the right
combination of meds to stop me from the symptoms while flaring. i
credit this newsgroup for so much of that info and support. There were
then and will continue to be trolls who have no interest except to
verbally attack the well meaning posters like yourself. Glad that you
and Doc and DJ are here... people who DO need the support come here
for that as well as to offer it. i just came today as my dr would like
me to consider Humira as a new alternative to continuing Remicade. i
thought i'd see what others had written.
anon
well-meaning about this psychopathic spew of verbal abuse?
Do tell.
<dbdm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0dda313b-e35e-4203...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Carole Allen
there has already been a long string addressing it which died a
merciful death?
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:19:10 -0400, "anon" <shopa...@yahoo.com>
wrote: