Y'all Will Love This
Rabbit
unskilled jobs, on her stint at Wal-Mart:
"Once I stand and watch helplessly while some rug rat pulls everything
he can reach off the racks, and the thought that abortion is wasted on
the unborn must show on my face, because his mother finally tells him
to stop."
Rabbit
mrfea...@aol.ccom
Heh. Great line, though I think Ehrenreich's got offspring. What do you think
of the book? I read an excerpt in Harper's a while back but haven't read the
book yet. The article was quite eye-opening for me--I've never tried to support
myself working retail and I wasn't aware of just how poorly paid those people
are.
Mary
JesterKat
wrote:
>In article <63098028.02020...@posting.google.com>, Rabbit says...
>>
>>From "Nickel and Dimed", Barbara Ehrenreich's book on working
>>unskilled jobs, on her stint at Wal-Mart:
>>
>>"Once I stand and watch helplessly while some rug rat pulls everything
>>he can reach off the racks, and the thought that abortion is wasted on
>>the unborn must show on my face, because his mother finally tells him
>>to stop."
>
>Heh. Great line, though I think Ehrenreich's got offspring. What do you think
>of the book? I read an excerpt in Harper's a while back but haven't read the
>book yet. The article was quite eye-opening for me--I've never tried to support
>myself working retail and I wasn't aware of just how poorly paid those people
>are.
I read it last year--it was horrifying. I think what got to me the
most was that these people are so low-paid that they have to keep
working even if they're sick or injured, because they don't get sick
pay and they can't afford to lose *any* pay.
---JesterKat, hugging her comfy sick-leave balance
***************
I have a tendency to wear my mind on my sleeve
I have a history of losing my shirt...
---Barenaked Ladies
Jim
JesterKat wrote:
>
> I read it last year--it was horrifying. I think what got to me the
> most was that these people are so low-paid that they have to keep
> working even if they're sick or injured, because they don't get sick
> pay and they can't afford to lose *any* pay.
BTDT. There is no social safety net.
>
> ---JesterKat, hugging her comfy sick-leave balance
One of the happiest days in my career was the day they told me I was
eligible for health insurance.
Jim
Rabbit
> of the book? I read an excerpt in Harper's a while back but haven't read the
> book yet. The article was quite eye-opening for me--I've never tried to support
> myself working retail and I wasn't aware of just how poorly paid those people
> are.
>
> Mary
She does refer to herself as "child-free", but in the sense that she
wasn't caring for any; she does mention phoning her son.
The book is very, very scary when you realize how many people have to
try to get by. And it also opened my eyes considerably to the plight
of people who really are trying to get by and can't. For example, I
was always one of those who said, "Why do they eat fast food? Why
don't they buy a dollar's worth of rice and beans and cook that up for
a week?" Well, as Ehrenreich points out, if the only place you can
afford doesn't have a microwave or a hot plate, it simply isn't an
option.
It certainly made me very grateful for what I have.
Rabbit
Rabbit
> most was that these people are so low-paid that they have to keep
> working even if they're sick or injured, because they don't get sick
> pay and they can't afford to lose *any* pay.
>
> ---JesterKat, hugging her comfy sick-leave balance
It also made me exceedingly grateful for our so-called "socialized
medicine". What passes for health care in the US is beyond a joke.
Rabbit
mrfea...@aol.ccom
>
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>mrfea...@aol.ccom wrote:
>
>> I read an excerpt in Harper's a while back but haven't read the
>> book yet. The article was quite eye-opening for me--I've never tried to support
>> myself working retail and I wasn't aware of just how poorly paid those people
>> are.
>
>how chilling it was. I could feel the fear and the desperation in my bones. Those
>lives seemed so hopeless.
>
Yes, exactly. I think maybe two years ago. It was expanded upon in the book to
include two or three other places where she spent time doing the same thing, but
it was scary how physically and mentally dragged down these people were.
Mary
IleneB
wrote:
> The article was quite eye-opening for me--I've never tried to support
> myself working retail and I wasn't aware of just how poorly paid those people
> are.
I read an excerpt quite a long time ago. Having worked as a waitress,
etc., I wasn't surprised at what she "found." It seemed like a real
middle-class revelation about how money/wages/expenses work. She's such
an old lefty- I wonder if the "revelation" is aimed at some pitch for
much higher minimum wages or something.
Ilene B
Aynthem
mrfea...@aol.ccom wrote in message ...
>>
>>> I read an excerpt in Harper's a while back but haven't read the
>>> book yet. The article was quite eye-opening for me--I've never tried to
support
>>> myself working retail and I wasn't aware of just how poorly paid those
people
>>> are.
>>
>>Was that a few years ago? Was she living in Florida? I remember that
article and
>>how chilling it was. I could feel the fear and the desperation in my
bones. Those
>>lives seemed so hopeless.
>>
>Yes, exactly. I think maybe two years ago. It was expanded upon in the
book to
>include two or three other places where she spent time doing the same
thing, but
>it was scary how physically and mentally dragged down these people were.
I'm a retail worker, and although I think I'm doing alright (by my
admittedly lower standards), I think that it may be not so much the low
wages, but the utter lack of respect we retail workers get. I know that
there are a lot of retail workers who *are* utter morons, but please give
all of us the benefit of the doubt before you get proof. It hurts me when I
hear or read people calling retail slaves "stupid" or "lazy" or "losers"
just because of where they work, not because of the quality of job they do.
All I ask is that as customers, you treat the retail worker as you would
like to be treated until and unless that retail work has disrespected you.
It's hard to be up all the time. In retail, even though you may be sick, or
have a pounding headache, or worried about your health, or had a tremendous
fight with your spouse, or are going through a death or other family trauma,
you still have to be upbeat and pleasant. You have to hide what you feel
behind a mask, and you can never have a day where you just want to be left
alone. They say the pay in retail is so low because it's a unskilled field
where just anybody can walk in and do it, but after years in the field, I
know better. No, it doesn't take a lot of training, but it does take the
right kind of person to deal with the public, and just anybody *can't* do
it. It takes a special person to ring your sale and answer your questions
pleasantly and informatively after you've just insulted
Thanks for the semi-rant space. I do like my job, but as I said, sometimes
I just wish there was a little more respect from the general public/customer
for the human being, if not for the job.
Melody (Any work done well is good work)
mrfea...@aol.ccom
Oh, that's exactly what it is. The argument goes that if we want people to work
as janitors and hotel maids and at Wal-Mart (and face it, we need people to do
these jobs) then those jobs ought to support a person.
I'm sure it's not even on the radar with the current administration, but there
are some valid arguments for it.
Mary
IleneB
Woman <lakesh...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Your tone (implied through quotation marks) suggests that such an increase
> would be a bad thing.
Well, I don't assume it's a good thing, at least not in the sense of it
being realistically possible or politically feasible. I think it would
be terrific if people could make enough money to live decently. And
when I'm the King, that's how it'll be. But in current U.S. reality,
this is how things are. What bothers me somewhat is the author's tone
of shocked discovery. Maybe because I'm basically blue collar and have
had those jobs (and my parents had those jobs and so did my
grandparents) it's not that I think they pay enough, it's that I fail
to see the point of writing about the obvious; unless her point is that
it's news to her perceived readership.
I work as an RN, since age 28, having made the rounds of shitty
waitress/factory/scuzz jobs from age 16 to 22. I currently make good
money (due to years of experience and night shifts). My non-licensed
co-workers make about $12/hour-- this in high-priced Boston, and many
of them with extravagent educations. I remember one nurse I knew
whining about how she only made $50K (which was pretty good when she
was making it) and how her brother-in-law makes $90K making software
jump through hoops. Well, nurses *cost* money, and programmers
(reportedly) *create* money through products. It's similar in my mind
to wailing about "teachers and nurses making $X while a basketball
player makes $millions." Yes, that's all true. Is this news? Is there
cause for any top-down solutions? Dunno.
I guess the book is good for people for whom the author's revelations
*are* news. I just am continually surprised at how class-bound the
reading public can be.
Ilene B
Caelan
> most was that these people are so low-paid that they have to keep
> working even if they're sick or injured, because they don't get sick
> pay and they can't afford to lose *any* pay.
>
> ---JesterKat, hugging her comfy sick-leave balance
In my not so distant past, I broke my foot by slipping on some ice
(5th meta-tarsal IIRC). Since it was a hairline fracture and difficult
to see, it didn't show up on the first x-ray and I was told to return
to work after a day or two to let the swelling go down. Keeping in
mind that I was literally carried into the emergency and could NOT
stand on my foot without searing pain. I wrapped my now almost black
foot (bruised beyond belief) and hobbled to work. No one expressed any
sympathy about the fact that I was working on concrete floors for 8
hours at a time with no chairs etc. It was all walking and standing.
In fact, boss bitched at me for not hanging my coat upstairs. When I
explained that I could not physically climb the stairs, I was given a
dubious 'BS' look and boss took my coat upstairs. Finally, after 5
days, I couldnt stand the pain and my foot was looking very very
scary. I insisted it was broken, was told it was not at least 3 times,
but then flipped out and was given another X-ray to humor me. Lo and
behold. It was broken... and the two pieces now had shifted and
partially set out of place. The foot was rebroken (NOT FUN), set and
casted up to my knee. I was told to take 6 weeks off. I took no time
off. I was already living hand to mouth and had missed two days work
when I intially broke the foot. SO, there you have it...worked for 5
days on a concrete floor on an uncasted, broken foot. Viva corporate
apathy and indifference.
Caelan.
The company is owned by another parent company whos name rhymes with
'schmoblaws' for us Canadians.
Sunfell
"Aynthem" <ayn...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:3c601c54$0$29383$45be...@newscene.com...
:
: mrfea...@aol.ccom wrote in message ...
---
I worked electronics retail for four years. Four years of basic questions,
keeping rugrats from destroying my computers, talking customers out of
self-created tangles, building up a nice head of steam, and watching it
vanish with returns...
The day I was 'poached' by the State is a day I celebrate each year. My
respect for all retail people, waitstaff and domestic workers is genuine. I
know firsthand what they have to put up with.
Sunfell
Empress
I have been in retail for a long time, and I love my industry, love my work,
love the products I sell, but am constantly demoralized, dehumanized, and
depressed by customers. I'm insulted, sneered at, ignored, yelled at, I have
things thrown at me, I'm sworn at, and I have to smile and take it. That's a
good day.
Just yesterday, I had a "need to get out" moment. I know quite a lot about
what I sell, having been through every level of training imaginable, even
having developed some of the training materials. But no, since I'm behind
the counter, I'm an idiot. I'm unskilled, uneducated, and don't know a
thing. The bitch I was helping and her bitch grown daughter weren't even
trying to hide the fact that they were insulting me right in front of my
face. I smiled and kept answering their inane questions, while they mouthed
things to each other like "f***ing idiot" and rolling their eyes, because I
was telling them the right answer, not what they wanted to hear based on
their having heard a third-hand buzzword used improperly and suddenly being
experts. When it was time to purchase, the mother threw her credit card at
me, with a declaration that I was ripping her off. She snatched the bag from
my hand with such force that I was left bleeding (literally- in the space
between thumb and first finger). I got a drop of blood on the bag, and
offered to put the purchase in a fresh bag and she called me a nasty bitch.
At which point I finally told her that I wouldn't have bled had she not
assaulted me. She stormed out with the refrain of the asshole customer:
"I'll be calling your company about this."
So I echo the pleas of retail workers everywhere. Don't automatically assume
things regarding our intelligence, skills, or intentions. Lots of us are
smart, funny, trained, and helpful. Some have college degrees. Yes, we can
be bitter. Is it any wonder? Be nice to us, and be amazed by what we can do
for you. Not all of us are poorly paid, or doing this temporarily.
Management gets paid well- we have to, to put up with the daily bullshit and
not walk.
Retail employees are working hard for their money. Just consider total
strangers walking into your office, several hundred a day, not communicating
their expectations, forcing their screaming baybees, sicknesses, and bad
days on you, screaming, yelling, throwing things, complaining about how your
office is set up, how many people are there, how they have to wait, and then
asking why you aren't doing your job. This is our reality. The good
customers, our companies, the products we sell, the relationships with
coworkers, often make it worthwhile. Mean, nasty customers complain that
we're surly and rude. But mean, nasty customers MAKE us surly and rude.
Cause and effect, people. Fewer nasties, more niceys make for delightful
retailers.
Whew. Is this soapbox high up or what?
Kent
: Retail employees are working hard for their money. Just consider total
: strangers walking into your office, several hundred a day, not
: communicating their expectations, forcing their screaming baybees,
: sicknesses, and bad days on you, screaming, yelling, throwing things,
: complaining about how your office is set up, how many people are there,
: how they have to wait, and then asking why you aren't doing your job.
: This is our reality. The good customers, our companies, the products we
: sell, the relationships with coworkers, often make it worthwhile. Mean,
: nasty customers complain that we're surly and rude. But mean, nasty
: customers MAKE us surly and rude.
You won't get any argument from me! I have seven years of retail under my
belt, and I agree that there are some really cool things about it: if you
enjoy the merchandise you sell it helps a lot (if not, all bets are off),
and by definition you'll have customers with a common interest as
yourself, which can be fun; it is pretty easy to set hours that suit you
and get days off when everybody else is working, which is good for
shopping, appointments, etc; the discount is (usually) very nice; you get
exercise by being on your feet and walking around all day; getting to know
a wide variety of regular customers can be good networking if you need a
<lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc.>.
BUT
Empress also illustrated most of the reasons there is such high turnover
in the retail world, most of which trace back to ASSHOLE CUSTOMERS. And
it's gotten a lot worse since I left retail a few years ago, with the
Moomie-entitlement crowd growing exponentially in both numbers and
attitude. Unfortuantely, in a recession, retail companies will scramble to
do whatever ass-kissing they think will bring in the bucks, which means
MORE sucking up to said entitlement-minded assholes, leading to more
turnover, leading to more clueless help, leading to grumpier
customers...it's not pretty. I do most of my shopping online now.
Kent
Empress
"Kent" <kmXXp...@pageszNET.invalid> wrote in message
news:Aec88.897$u4....@news-reader.ntrnet.net...
>
> BUT
>
> Empress also illustrated most of the reasons there is such high turnover
> in the retail world, most of which trace back to ASSHOLE CUSTOMERS. And
> it's gotten a lot worse since I left retail a few years ago, with the
> Moomie-entitlement crowd growing exponentially in both numbers and
> attitude. Unfortuantely, in a recession, retail companies will scramble to
> do whatever ass-kissing they think will bring in the bucks, which means
> MORE sucking up to said entitlement-minded assholes, leading to more
> turnover, leading to more clueless help, leading to grumpier
> customers...it's not pretty. I do most of my shopping online now.
>
>
> Kent
Kent- unfortunately, you've just put your finger on a big part of the
vicious cycle of retail hell. Those people who would be ideal customers
(those who have worked in service industries, have to work hard, period, or
those who are a little smarter than the average entitlement jerkass and can
use their computers) are migrating to the quiet of on-line retailing,
leaving the malls jammed with the worst of the worst and fewer good people
to balance it all out.
And you wouldn't believe the Moomie shit that happens in malls. This is a
whole new thread topic altogether, but this one happened Monday, so I have
to share. All the escalators in the mall are clearly marked "no strollers"
with directions pointing to the elevators. Moo is too lazy to walk to the
elevator, maneuvers her two-seater NAV on, blocking dozens of people from
the escalator in the process, then halfway down, a 10 year old kid hits the
emergency stop button at the top. Dumps both kids (toddlers) from stroller
down escalator to floor. Moo starts screaming lawsuit until she is shown to
the security office, where the whole thing is on tape. Including her reading
and ignoring the stroller sign, and her picking up her shopping bags and
righting the stroller before going after her kids. Slight glimmer of hope-
the kid who hit the button was brought to the security office where the
parents (who should have been watching the damn thing in the first place)
gave him the whooping of a lifetime while the officers all played busy with
their paperwork.
Kari Levstik
Kent wrote:
> Empress also illustrated most of the reasons there is such high turnover
> in the retail world, most of which trace back to ASSHOLE CUSTOMERS. And
> it's gotten a lot worse since I left retail a few years ago, with the
> Moomie-entitlement crowd growing exponentially in both numbers and
> attitude. Unfortuantely, in a recession, retail companies will scramble to
> do whatever ass-kissing they think will bring in the bucks, which means
> MORE sucking up to said entitlement-minded assholes, leading to more
> turnover, leading to more clueless help, leading to grumpier
> customers...it's not pretty. I do most of my shopping online now.
I think the same can be said about nursing homes,
too. I've been an aide before and the only
purpose you serve as an aide is to get blamed
and bitched at by the families of the residents
for your "poor" job performance. And unfortunately
you don't get to tell the family members to take
their loved ones home and try to care for them
and see how much better they can do.
Kari
--
Don & Kari Levstik
kdle...@worldnet.att.net
"Ain't" is a proper word. When you look at the floor
you don't say, "look at tem isn'ts!" you say look at
tem ain'ts!"
Cheryl Greer
"Empress" <shopper...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
> And you wouldn't believe the Moomie shit that happens in malls. This is a
> whole new thread topic altogether, but this one happened Monday, so I have
> to share. All the escalators in the mall are clearly marked "no strollers"
> with directions pointing to the elevators. Moo is too lazy to walk to the
> elevator, maneuvers her two-seater NAV on, blocking dozens of people from
> the escalator in the process, then halfway down, a 10 year old kid hits the
> emergency stop button at the top. Dumps both kids (toddlers) from stroller
> down escalator to floor. Moo starts screaming lawsuit until she is shown to
> the security office, where the whole thing is on tape. Including her reading
> and ignoring the stroller sign, and her picking up her shopping bags and
> righting the stroller before going after her kids. Slight glimmer of hope-
> the kid who hit the button was brought to the security office where the
> parents (who should have been watching the damn thing in the first place)
> gave him the whooping of a lifetime while the officers all played busy with
> their paperwork.
Wow, it's almost too bad that the parents of the button-pusher were
semi-responsible for him. If not, you could have had a hysterical "When
Enitilement Breeders Collide" saga.
"My pwecious bayybees fell down the escalator and they will be
scarred for LIFE! I've had to hire a personal Esteem Therapist for
$150/hr to help ease the trauma of this tragedy in My Chillldrunnn's
lives! I'm suing the mall, the escalator company, and your
button-pushing child!"
vs.
"How Dare You! Brandyonne is a high-spirited Indigo Child and his
creative free spirit needs to explore! He had every RIGHT to push that
button! How dare you suggest that we deny him these vital life
experiences??"
It could have been fun to watch.
Cheryl
elizabeth
> In article <fvW78.32419$PC.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, Lakeshore
> Woman <lakesh...@netscape.net> wrote:
Oh for fucking CRYING OUT FUCKING LOUD. You sound as assholistically
ENTITLED to your LOFTY S-E STATUS which is, after all, just pure luck.
It's just PURE FUCKING LUCK that you were born in the right place,
time, and to the right parents to take advantage, which you did. NO
ONE ever gets anything on their own. You had advantages, you used
them. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE ANY FUCKING BETTER THAN ANYONE
ELSE. You sound rather like one of those WTC Moos.
> > Your tone (implied through quotation marks) suggests that such an increase
> > would be a bad thing.
>
> Well, I don't assume it's a good thing,
Shove that up your cunt with a copy of Das Kapital. IF YOU think YOU
are entitled to a decent life, then so is everyone else.
> at least not in the sense of it
> being realistically possible or politically feasible.
Bullshit. It is doable, it's just cunts like you and the WTC breeders
who just KNOW that they DESERVE all the best. It's not politically
feasible because of the sheer number of dumb cunts who don't
understand what goes around comes around. YOU could be the next one
dumped out of your comfortable life . .. it happens all the fucking
time. But cunts like you don't look down, and figure that after all,
YOU deserve all you have, and everyone else just isn't as deserving.
You sound like a fucking breeder ho. Well, cuntsywuntsy, it could be
YOU next in a homeless shelter, shit does happen. And what sort of
safety net would YOU want to catch YOU? And why doesn't everyone
deserve that? Oh, that's right, because YOU earned everything you
have all by yourself. Uh huh.
> I think it would
> be terrific if people could make enough money to live decently.
Just so long as YOU don't have to do anything, and YOU get to keep all
YOU have.
> And
> when I'm the King, that's how it'll be. But in current U.S. reality,
> this is how things are.
Which is fine, because YOU have what YOU want. Well, that could
change very fast, and when it does, the laughter you hear will be me
and the other fans of hubris.
> What bothers me somewhat is the author's tone
> of shocked discovery. Maybe because I'm basically blue collar and have
> had those jobs (and my parents had those jobs and so did my
> grandparents) it's not that I think they pay enough, it's that I fail
> to see the point of writing about the obvious; unless her point is that
> it's news to her perceived readership.
I don't beleive you. If you really are of blue collar background, you
are as fucked up and greedy as any sproggen demanding designer clothes
and shit. Really, for you to so bash your forebears . . . you could
be back there sooner than you think. And yes, these things DO NEED TO
BE SAID because there are so many stupid shits who think that the sun
shines out of their ass.
> I work as an RN, since age 28, having made the rounds of shitty
> waitress/factory/scuzz jobs from age 16 to 22. I currently make good
> money (due to years of experience and night shifts).
OK, dearie, suppose shit happens, say you lose your license, can't
work as a nurse. Then what?
> My non-licensed
> co-workers make about $12/hour-- this in high-priced Boston, and many
> of them with extravagent educations. I remember one nurse I knew
> whining about how she only made $50K (which was pretty good when she
> was making it) and how her brother-in-law makes $90K making software
> jump through hoops. Well, nurses *cost* money, and programmers
> (reportedly) *create* money through products. It's similar in my mind
> to wailing about "teachers and nurses making $X while a basketball
> player makes $millions." Yes, that's all true. Is this news? Is there
> cause for any top-down solutions? Dunno.
Try to think for just a minute, dearie. All the valuation we place on
jobs and things are completely and utterly arbitrary. Nurses "create"
money by making sure that productive workers stay alive. Think, if
you can. If you are dying and need medical care, what is more
important to you? Killer apps, or a good nurse? Which would you pay
more for? Face it, dearie, capitalism is a Ponzi Scheme . . . and
yesterday's megabuck dotcommer is now working at McD's. Sure looks
like all that "money creation" was a crock, don't it? Actually, all
capitalism is doing is TAKING money/resources from whoever you can.
Creating a market is an old trick, too. Create a need, then fill it.
Adam Smith has nothing to do with any of it. The main flaw of
capitalism is that the only good is profit, and you can make much
better profits doing evil than good. And it's capitalism that
promoted overbreeding of workers, to keep wages down. So now we have
a planet that can't sustain half of us already here, the masses
scrambling like rats on crack to get enough to live on . .. and
savaging any below them that might take some crumbs off their pile.
> I guess the book is good for people for whom the author's revelations
> *are* news. I just am continually surprised at how class-bound the
> reading public can be.
I pity your patients. Such a nasty, vicious, entitlement 'tude you
got . .. you sound like you would make Nurse Ratchett look like Mary
Poppins.
And here I have always like nurses! Well, I stand corrected, Nurse
Cuntwit. I can't wait for your karma to smack you in the face like a
loaded diaper. Just wait, dearie, you are not as safe as you might
think as an RN.
There is no reason that a country as rich as ours cannot adequately
support ALL citizens, and if that means some of the motherfuckers at
the top of the food chain have to get by on less then a billion/year,
so be it. If that means that all wages are flattened so there is no
longer the obscene variation between richest and poorest which is
fuelling most of our problems. Including overbreeding. Because as
long as the poor can get housing and healthcare by breeding more
resource suckers, they will. And we will *never* get out of it . .. .
overbreeding and a declining economy have us basically circling the
drain. the only way to end it is by ending all subsidies to breeders,
we need to DO THE MATH about kids and why they are no longer needed .
. unless of course, they need more cannon fodder. Sure, we could use
our industries back too, but as long as there are so many uberbreeders
willing to put up with any shit to FEED THEIR BRATS, that ain't gonna
change.
Oh, yeah, Nurse Cuntwit . .. maybe I couldn't pass chemistry but I
excelled in history. If you pay attention to the Children Are The
Future bs, it sounds just like what Hitler was saying ("Tomorrow
belongs to us"), and one of the ways he paid for all the breeders was
to increase the taxes on the CF . .. and then . .. nonbreeders LOST
THEIR JOBS to make them available to breeders.
think it can't happen here? It already is, dearie. Just wait until
the inevitable staff reduction where you work. Plenty of Filipino
nurses willing to work at lower wages than you, and most hospitals are
reducing the RNs and replacing them with lower skilled staff.
cheryl
workers live with. And as a retail worker ( 5 years) I know that the
true frustration is that you are underappreciated by your company, the
customers, and the manger. They want the stay home moomies to fill in
during the week, or granny, or some highschool student- but who is
there during the afternoon evening, when it is busiest- the full
timers.
I live week to week, and sometimes day to day.
Recently I was fired 2 days before surgery because I would need 1 week
to recover- it's foot surgery i had put off till the pain was
unbearable and is agravated by the fact that i stand on a cement floor
for 8hrs a day, with only a 30min lunch. I had to charge it to my
visa, plus all food and rent for that month.
There is no union, or Ministry of labour help. - not free help, so
what can I do? I have to get another job as soon as my foot is healed.
Why did your last employer fire you? Because they were undgrateful
fucks that didn't care that i am a human being.
Take your $6.85 an hour and shove it up you A**.
The Other Cheryl
Jessica A.
news:246e465c.02020...@posting.google.com...
What I don't understand is why you've been working retail for 5 years. You
obviously have a computer and some typing skills or you wouldn't be posting
here. Why not try going to an employment agency and try getting a job as a
receptionist or typist or something like that? The pay is much more than
what you're getting now and there's no standing all day.
h...@haa.haw
>
> I have been in retail for a long time, and I love my industry, love my
> work, love the products I sell, but am constantly demoralized,
> dehumanized, and depressed by customers. I'm insulted, sneered at,
> ignored, yelled at, I have things thrown at me, I'm sworn at, and I
> have to smile and take it. That's a good day.
how's that poverty going?
halcyon.
h...@haa.haw
>
> Oh for fucking CRYING OUT FUCKING LOUD. You sound as assholistically
> ENTITLED to your LOFTY S-E STATUS which is, after all, just pure luck.
> It's just PURE FUCKING LUCK that you were born in the right place,
> time, and to the right parents to take advantage, which you did. NO
> ONE ever gets anything on their own. You had advantages, you used
> them. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE ANY FUCKING BETTER THAN ANYONE
> ELSE. You sound rather like one of those WTC Moos.
elizabeth, you write like someone who's 40 years old and making
$30,000 a year.
> Shove that up your cunt with a copy of Das Kapital. IF YOU think YOU
> are entitled to a decent life, then so is everyone else.
marx wept. you seem to get angry a lot.
> Bullshit. It is doable, it's just cunts like you and the WTC breeders
> who just KNOW that they DESERVE all the best. It's not politically
> feasible because of the sheer number of dumb cunts who don't
> understand what goes around comes around. YOU could be the next one
> dumped out of your comfortable life . .. it happens all the fucking
> time. But cunts like you don't look down, and figure that after all,
> YOU deserve all you have, and everyone else just isn't as deserving.
> You sound like a fucking breeder ho. Well, cuntsywuntsy, it could be
> YOU next in a homeless shelter, shit does happen. And what sort of
> safety net would YOU want to catch YOU? And why doesn't everyone
> deserve that? Oh, that's right, because YOU earned everything you
> have all by yourself. Uh huh.
elizabeth, are you mad because you have no marketable, employable
skills and are too bitchy to get a man to support you?
> Just so long as YOU don't have to do anything, and YOU get to keep all
> YOU have.
how many government programmes are you on?
> Which is fine, because YOU have what YOU want. Well, that could
> change very fast, and when it does, the laughter you hear will be me
> and the other fans of hubris.
power to the people, man.
> I don't beleive you. If you really are of blue collar background, you
> are as fucked up and greedy as any sproggen demanding designer clothes
> and shit. Really, for you to so bash your forebears . . . you could
> be back there sooner than you think. And yes, these things DO NEED TO
> BE SAID because there are so many stupid shits who think that the sun
> shines out of their ass.
elizabeth, have you always been an asshole?
> OK, dearie, suppose shit happens, say you lose your license, can't
> work as a nurse. Then what?
are you, elizabeth, employed?
> Try to think for just a minute, dearie. All the valuation we place on
> jobs and things are completely and utterly arbitrary. Nurses "create"
> money by making sure that productive workers stay alive. Think, if
> you can. If you are dying and need medical care, what is more
> important to you? Killer apps, or a good nurse? Which would you pay
> more for? Face it, dearie, capitalism is a Ponzi Scheme . . . and
> yesterday's megabuck dotcommer is now working at McD's. Sure looks
> like all that "money creation" was a crock, don't it? Actually, all
> capitalism is doing is TAKING money/resources from whoever you can.
> Creating a market is an old trick, too. Create a need, then fill it.
> Adam Smith has nothing to do with any of it. The main flaw of
> capitalism is that the only good is profit, and you can make much
> better profits doing evil than good. And it's capitalism that
> promoted overbreeding of workers, to keep wages down. So now we have
> a planet that can't sustain half of us already here, the masses
> scrambling like rats on crack to get enough to live on . .. and
> savaging any below them that might take some crumbs off their pile.
be careful. don't burse a blood vessel there.
> I pity your patients. Such a nasty, vicious, entitlement 'tude you
> got . .. you sound like you would make Nurse Ratchett look like Mary
> Poppins.
>
> And here I have always like nurses! Well, I stand corrected, Nurse
> Cuntwit. I can't wait for your karma to smack you in the face like a
> loaded diaper. Just wait, dearie, you are not as safe as you might
> think as an RN.
marty, i think you should take lessons.
elizabeth, did you turn blue in the face while writing this post?
halcyon.
h...@haa.haw
>
> I am still amazed at how few people are aware of the poverty retail
> workers live with. And as a retail worker ( 5 years)
how's the poverty going?
halcyon.
h...@haa.haw
>
> "elizabeth" <efra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d704555b.02020...@posting.google.com...
>
> <snip long, needlessly vitriolic, and perplexing screed>
>
> Is this really Elizabeth, or is it a troll forging her identity again?
no. you didn't read elizabeth when she was blaming me for causing
traffic problems in california, despite never having been to the
state before in my life.
halcyon.
J.W.T. Meakin
>
> "elizabeth" <efra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d704555b.02020...@posting.google.com...
>
> <snip long, needlessly vitriolic, and perplexing screed>
>
> Is this really Elizabeth, or is it a troll forging her identity again?
Looks like a troll. The real E. can swing pretty hard, but her
arguments make sense, which this doesn't.
Bill.
Veronique
> ...Conservatives tend to think that for
> welfare recipients and other people below the poverty line to simply go out
> and get jobs, no matter how dead-end or how low-paying, is going to solve
> the poverty problem, but in many communities it's not nearly as easy as
> that, and that's what Ehrenreich is trying to demonstrate. By now, probably
> a lot of people in the situation she's describing have lost their jobs and
> are having a hard time keeping their heads above water. I'd hate to see
> them blamed for their misfortune, considering how hard it is for them to
> survive week to week, but I'm sure that will happen.
Where did I read (back in the 80s, I think) that modern
recessions/depressions are not at all like those earlier in the
history of the United States. During the Great Depression, the problem
was finding work. If you were able to snag a job, you were able to
keep your head above water. But now, it's not enough to have a job,
and minimum wage does not guarentee that you can afford to live.
Egads, I was just reading that my dear little town is THE most
unaffordable place to live in the United States, if you compare medium
(not median, don't know why they used that particular word) family
income of $68,000 with median housing price of $420,000. The City
Council enacted a "living wage" law, so city workers make a minimum of
$14/hour. Or $28k/year. Or (if we consider that two wage earners
equals a family), $56k, still $12,000/year UNDER what a "medium"
income is, and still far, far below what two people would need to be
able to afford a median-priced house.
And if you think $420,00 buys you a McMansion, think again. More like
1200 ft sq and 1 1/2 baths if you're lucky.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Love will get you like a case of trainwax.
TudorLdy
writes:
> read an excerpt quite a long time ago. Having worked as a waitress,
>etc., I wasn't surprised at what she "found." It seemed like a real
>middle-class revelation about how money/wages/expenses work. She's such
>an old lefty- I wonder if the "revelation" is aimed at some pitch for
>much higher minimum wages or something.
I read the whole thing last summer.
All through it I couldn't help but think "She's doing this from a safe
distance. If she wants to leave, she can." For whatever reason, that really
stuck with me, because I worked jobs where the pay was basically minimum wage
plus a buck an hour plus minimal benefits -- and you had to "dress nice", and
act like you were grateful to be working in such a wonderful place.
I had to "dress nice" on my current pay, I'd be living in someone's spare
bedroom. I don't know. That book made me angry. Because she was able to
leave that situation any time she wanted, and a lot of us *can't*. I know she
was just a writer, but it made me want to scream. Yeah, a lot of people are in
miserable jobs. And it seemed like she was visiting that place kind of like a
tourist -- but had no solutions.
Meagn
-- who desparately needs some down time and can't get it without an act of
congress - our sick and vacation time *and* national holidays all come out of a
pot that we have to earn at the rate of 1.5 days per month.
Remove knickers before replying.
Joy
"TudorLdy" <tudo...@aol.comknickers> wrote in message
news:20020207012933...@mb-fv.aol.com...
> In article <050220021132032715%ile...@shore.net>,
> I read the whole thing last summer.
>
> All through it I couldn't help but think "She's doing this from a safe
> distance. If she wants to leave, she can." For whatever reason, that
really
> stuck with me, because I worked jobs where the pay was basically minimum
wage
> plus a buck an hour plus minimal benefits -- and you had to "dress nice",
and
> act like you were grateful to be working in such a wonderful place.
>
> I had to "dress nice" on my current pay, I'd be living in someone's spare
> bedroom. I don't know. That book made me angry. Because she was able to
> leave that situation any time she wanted, and a lot of us *can't*. I know
she
> was just a writer, but it made me want to scream. Yeah, a lot of people
are in
> miserable jobs. And it seemed like she was visiting that place kind of
like a
> tourist -- but had no solutions.
I do have to "dress nice" - business casual, and that's pretty ridiculous.
Especially that if I want to wear tennis shoes (we stand pretty much all
day, as well as hauling crap around in the stockroom, etc.) I'd have to get
a *doctors note! For god's sake, we wear name-tags - how nice do we have to
look?
I had a similarly skeptical reaction whilst reading parts of that a few
months ago. While I was thrilled there was someone out there who "got" it,
it still made me itch a little. I found parts of it condescending, and was
rather shocked, frankly, by Ehrenreich's shock that yes, there are people
who have to live like this.
For most of my adult life, I've worked retail, and let me tell you, I'm
lucky I have an understanding roommate. I get the bills and groceries, and
she gets the rent. I can't afford a car, much less gas and insurance. I do
have great health benefits, (tubals are covered) but between the fucked up
hours, and transportation difficulties, it's been impossible for me to
schedule a non-emergency appointment for quite some time.
I hesitate to bitch too much - I made certain decisions that landed me
here - but I was also frustrated by Ehrenreich's need to invoke the holy
child in order to gain people's sympathy, as in "how can a woman with a
chy-uld afford to pay for it on $7 an hour..." with the implication that as
an adult, you can't possibly matter that much. Perhaps I'm just intolerant
of women who have made what must be the only mistake I *haven't made.
If any of the rest of you want a wage-slave name-tag-wearing view of the
world, don't bother with Ms. Eherenreich's book (well, her heart was in the
right place), just e-mail me. ;-)
~ Joy
Gallilea
> Moo starts screaming lawsuit until she is shown to
>the security office, where the whole thing is on tape. Including her reading
>and ignoring the stroller sign, and her picking up her shopping bags and
>righting the stroller before going after her kids.
Bwahahahahahahaha.. serves her right. I would have paid good money to be a fly
on the wall during that little meeting.
Gallilea
Gallilea
<kdle...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>I think the same can be said about nursing homes,
>too. I've been an aide before and the only
>purpose you serve as an aide is to get blamed
>and bitched at by the families of the residents
>for your "poor" job performance. And unfortunately
>you don't get to tell the family members to take
>their loved ones home and try to care for them
>and see how much better they can do.
Right on, Kari! During college I worked as an aid in two different homes, and
I've never done anything more difficult in my life. It's got a lot of that
"impossible to please" aspect of retail (thank goodness visiting hours END at
8:00!-- then you only get it from the residents!), it's back-breaking work,
every so often, a resident you've grown attached to will DIE. In a lot of
ways, it was very rewarding work, and I learned a tremendous amount about
people while I was an aid, but just like with retail workers, I can't imagine
how people manage to make a career out of it. I just don't have what it takes,
period. I'd burn out in a year or less if I tried it again now.
Gallilea
Beth Cole
>
> I think the same can be said about nursing homes,
> too. I've been an aide before and the only
> purpose you serve as an aide is to get blamed
> and bitched at by the families of the residents
> for your "poor" job performance. And unfortunately
> you don't get to tell the family members to take
> their loved ones home and try to care for them
> and see how much better they can do.
>
> Kari
The only complaint that I have about the home that takes care of my MIL
is that no one will stop at her table during meals and remind her that
that she needs to eat more (she's lost 6lbs in the last month, and feels
incredibly fragile now). Other than that, they are doing a wonderful
job.
I'm working to have a cookie bouquet delievered to the staff there to
tell them we like the care she is getting (we tell them verbally every
time we visit). It isn't much, but I know they are doing a job that I
can't and won't do. I don't have the physical or emotional strength to
be her full-time caregiver, and I'm thankful that there are people who
can provide that service for us.
Beth
--
In the United States, one hundred years is a long time. In Europe, one
hundred miles is a long distance. It's all in the perspective.
my home page: http://www.IsleOfSky.net
Swan & Rat
>
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Aynthem wrote:
>
> > I'm a retail worker, and although I think I'm doing alright (by my
> > admittedly lower standards), I think that it may be not so much the low
> > wages, but the utter lack of respect we retail workers get.
Sing it!!
Funny thing is, when I go into stores and restaurants in my
neighborhood, friends of mine are always surprised that I get soch
wonderful service! I get the better table, the freshest and best
produce, store employees will open a line to take me if I'm waiting... I
get treated the way wealthy folks would WISH to be treated. Why? because
I've taken the time to KNOW the retail and service people. I talk to
them, smile at them, remember their names and give good tips. I look AT
them instead of through them. Rat does the same thing.
THAT is the secret. Not being so dripping-rich you can buy and sell the
poor twerp at the register. Since I seldom am in a hurry, I tell the
harassed waitress "Take your time! I'm OK." and I smile at her. I treat
her as I would a friend because she IS a friend! And everyone knows that
you go the extra bit for a friend. She remembers me. The next time I
come in, she remembers that I tipped her, that I smiled. She knows I'm
not going to mess with her or hassle her.It works.
The world has little "shortcuts" that go to the wealthy. Taxi services
in cities have two numbers. One for regular passengers. You call that
number and they'll send a cab when one is free after it's taken the five
fares stacked on its list. The OTHER number is the VIP line. Call THAT
one and you get the next cab free... AHEAD of all the rest. Celebrities
and their people know the numbers. In San Francisco, so do I. Because
drivers who LIKE me have GIVEN the numbers to me! Because I treat them
well and I TIP!
> I know that
> > there are a lot of retail workers who *are* utter morons, but please give
> > all of us the benefit of the doubt before you get proof. It hurts me when I
> > hear or read people calling retail slaves "stupid" or "lazy" or "losers"
> > just because of where they work, not because of the quality of job they do.
There is NO dishonor in honest labor! From the counterperson at
McDonald's to the high priced designer selling silk wallpaper at
$400/yd they are ALL worthy of courtesy. Even if I don't get good
service, I'll be polite. Poor service gets complaints but more to the
point, good service draws commendations! You'd be amazed at how far
those "comment cards" GO when you put an "attaboy" note on them!
(That's another secret to getting five star service!)
> That is exactly how I treat retail workers. Having worked retail for a few
> years, I can really empathize with what you have to put up with. For me, it was
> amazing how far a little "thank you" or a smile from a customer could go. It
> doesn't take any more energy to treat someone with respect than it does to be
> rude.
True. In New Orleans there's the custom of "lagniappe" or "a little
extra". I take that principle to heart and it goes both ways. In a
bookstore, I will take a book back and re-shelve it if I decide not to
buy it. In a store I'll return merchandise to its rack or display
instead of expecting the registerperson to do it. On cold days when I
take Dial A Ride, I'll bring out a styrofoam cup of coffee for the
driver and on hot days a lemonade. A little extra. The world is a
better place for it. Costs next to nothing, too!
> Although this was 20 years ago, so many customers had an entitlement attitude,
> which came through mostly in two ways: 1) getting irritable and impatient with
> me when I was obviously helping another customer, and 2) getting angry at me
> because we were out of a certain book.
As if you'd run out deliberately to cheese her off. Yeesh! I hate that
"world revolves around my navel" attitude in adults every bit as much as
I hate it in sproggen!
> > It's hard to be up all the time. In retail, even though you may be sick, or
> > have a pounding headache, or worried about your health, or had a tremendous
> > fight with your spouse, or are going through a death or other family trauma,
> > you still have to be upbeat and pleasant.
Freakin A! Because many companies employ "secret shoppers" to catch
their staff out. Or the management takes the customer's side even when
the customer is OBVIOUSLY the one with the chip. "We DO apologise Mrs
Uppity, we wILL take that return back, no reciept and even though your
dog's chewed it to pieces and it looks like it's been soaked through!
I'll discipline the counterperson for daring to question you! Here's a
fukl refund and store credit for the purchase as well. Come back soon!"
ARRRGH!
> > You have to hide what you feel
> > behind a mask, and you can never have a day where you just want to be left
> > alone. They say the pay in retail is so low because it's a unskilled field
> > where just anybody can walk in and do it, but after years in the field, I
> > know better.
It's like being an actress or model. It's like prostitution because THEY
control your body for eight or nine hours a day! You can't sit when you
want, slouch, frown, you have to be nice-nice teethy-teethy and The
Customer Is Always Right. BTDT.
The ones I feel REALLY sorry for are Disneyland and Disneyworld
"castmembers"! They not only have to deal with mosquito-clouds of kids
and parents, BUT they have secret shoppers, "smile" signs behind the
counters, obscenely strict dresscodes AND miserable pay! The enforcement
of the Stepford mentality there is staggering!
>
> Have you thought about working for a retail establishment where you can earn
> commisions? I think Sunfell does that over the holidays, and from what she's
> said, she made a nice sum of money.
That has its own rat race quality, though. One month can be fat, the
next starvation central. Sales fall completely FLAT in January-March but
the bills are still coming in. I do that sort of work and one day I'll
earn $5.00, the next $120.00! Try to budget when the cashflow is THAT
disparate. :)
Anyway. yeah. life is a LOT easier when people are kind to each other!
swan
Kari Levstik
Gallilea wrote:
>
> Right on, Kari! During college I worked as an aid in two different homes, and
> I've never done anything more difficult in my life. It's got a lot of that
> "impossible to please" aspect of retail (thank goodness visiting hours END at
> 8:00!-- then you only get it from the residents!), it's back-breaking work,
> every so often, a resident you've grown attached to will DIE. In a lot of
> ways, it was very rewarding work, and I learned a tremendous amount about
> people while I was an aid, but just like with retail workers, I can't imagine
> how people manage to make a career out of it. I just don't have what it takes,
> period. I'd burn out in a year or less if I tried it again now.
Oh. I think I'd burn out in less than an hour now. Nothing
you do as an aide is right. You are literally expected to
play the role of God, care giver, miracle worker and
whipping post. If you don't live up to this standard, you're
fired without any explanation. And even if you do, it's still
not good enough.
What really gets me, too, is how understaffed the homes are.
The only times that the homes are fully staffed and the
residents are well-fed is when the *state* is there. Then
everything's done right. Nursing homes also tend to hire
just any 'ol body out of desperation. Then the residents
get stolen from, abused, etc., when this happens.
There were two people who died at one of the homes I worked
at. One died by hanging herself on an incorrectly tied
restraint. One just wandered off outside the home and died
in the summer heat. I am so thankful that I wasn't there
when either of these incidents happened.
Shel
>Well, nurses *cost* money, and programmers
>(reportedly) *create* money through products.
Setting aside the intrinsic value of nursing for a moment...
It's true that nurses cost money and don't make revenue *under the
accounting traditionally used by health care management*, which lumps
patient payment for nursing in with the room cost instead of charging
separately for nursing care. Common sense reality is a different
animal altogether. Of course nurses create money for their
organizations. A hospital cannot accept patients if it has no nurses
to care for them. A hospital that cannot accept patients makes no
money from those patients. A hospital that hasn't enough nursing
staff to care for new admissions must redirect those admissions to
another hospital, losing that revenue.
The unfortunate result of the traditional numbers game, a leftover
from the days when young working women tended to be nurses,
secretaries, or teachers and worked cheap until they got married, is
that health care managements can't resist cutting labor "costs" when
they want to spiff up their bottom lines, resulting in a decrease of
the people who do the actual work of the institution and endangering
the health and lives of patients. If nursing care were listed as a
separate charge, as it ought to be, this might not be such an
attractive option during accounting number-juggling sessions.
--
Shel
mroo philpott-smythe
[schnippenzie]
> I'm a retail worker, and although I think I'm doing alright (by my
> admittedly lower standards), I think that it may be not so much the low
> wages, but the utter lack of respect we retail workers get.
[horrendectomy]
I have always striven, and always will, to treat people who do menial
labour with the genuine respect of one who is glad not to have to do it
myself. That type of work sucks, and I'm glad to pay money to, and treat
well, the people who end up doing it - with the understanding, of
course, that they treat me reasonably in return. I don't expect them to
smile, or be cheerful, or wish me well. I accept that being on your feet
for eight or more hours per day sucks a big green weenie.
on the other hand if i get one more raised pierced eyebrow accompanied
by a superior sniff from some undertalented autist-in-training at the
local coffee place, or restaurant, or whatever ...
nah, i just won't give them my money.
sq
Julie
<lab...@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote:
>
>THAT is the secret. Not being so dripping-rich you can buy and sell the
>poor twerp at the register. Since I seldom am in a hurry, I tell the
>harassed waitress "Take your time! I'm OK."
Do you ever find that they are totally surprised that somebody isn't
bitching about the service? Me and DH are very patient shoppers, and
we never get irate or try to fluster a retail worker, but on occasion
the fact that we are nice to them gets them even more flustered! I
think it's so sad that it appears they are so expecting to be treated
with contempt, that a patient, polite customer confuses some of them.
Julie S
Gallilea
<lakesh...@netscape.net> writes:
>
><snip long, needlessly vitriolic, and perplexing screed>
>
>Is this really Elizabeth, or is it a troll forging her identity again?
>
>
No, that's probably the real elizabeth. She has tantrums from time to time.
You get used to it after a while.
Gallilea
Empress
for customers, I found this article from the Hartford Courant:
http://www.ctnow.com/news/local/northeast/hc-borders.artfeb03.story?coll=hc%
2Dheadlines%2Dnortheast
(I'm not sure how to unwrap my lines- sorry if it's hard to get to.)
The highlight for me was the last paragraph:
"I didn't leave Borders on bad terms. It wasn't the company that employed me
or my coworkers who hastened my departure; it was the company around me, the
shoppers, retail America, who showed me the worst of humanity. They're
consumers in the strictest sense of the word. They only want books and CDs;
they want to have them as symbols of their ststus, because they can. They
covet them, but they don't care about them. Now, I'm no saint, but that
sound like a sin."
Also a great section on "young mothers" who all think their children are
geniuses.
Rabbit
> >poor twerp at the register. Since I seldom am in a hurry, I tell the
> >harassed waitress "Take your time! I'm OK."
>
> Do you ever find that they are totally surprised that somebody isn't
> bitching about the service? Me and DH are very patient shoppers, and
> we never get irate or try to fluster a retail worker, but on occasion
> the fact that we are nice to them gets them even more flustered! I
> think it's so sad that it appears they are so expecting to be treated
> with contempt, that a patient, polite customer confuses some of them.
>
Husband and I are like this, which is why I think I get irritated when
I do meet the odd retailer who frustrates me.
An example: we went into a store looking for something. Husband asked
if they had any. Clerk said, "No, we don't have any."
Husband said, "Do you mean you're out of stock, or you don't carry
that product?"
Clerk said, "We don't have any."
Arrgggh!
We were still polite, though ...
Rabbit
IleneB
<uk...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> If nursing care were listed as a
> separate charge, as it ought to be, this might not be such an
> attractive option during accounting number-juggling sessions.
An interesting point, thanks.
Yesterday's Boston Globe claimed that nurses are gaining more and more
power and clout about working conditions. Or something. Couldn't prove
it by where I work, although I stay there because it's the safest
psychiatric job I've ever had, with a very professional and accountable
environment. However, the shift workers still get mauled a lot by the
payroll and scheduling "systems."
I think I just violated some sort of gag order thingy I was supposed to
sign at my last evaluation. But 'whoops' I forgot to sign it.
Ilene B "so fire me. Then you'll have no night nurse."
elizabeth
snip
> There is NO dishonor in honest labor! From the counterperson at
> McDonald's to the high priced designer selling silk wallpaper at
> $400/yd they are ALL worthy of courtesy.
And a decent wage. If no one wants to do the job, raise the wages.
Instead, we try and force people to work shit jobs by making sure they
have no other options. That is one reason why blue collar sorts
should stop breeding altogether. When the Entitlement Moos find out
that because there are no shit workers to manage, her Snotleigh won't
be able to get a job managing them, but may actually have to . . gasp
. .. clean a floor or wait on a table him/herself! The latest scam
for making sure GoldenChyuld gets a high paying job is the new degree
in . .. HOSPITALITY SERVICE. Smegging KEERIST, you don't need to take
college courses to learn how to run a restaurant, all you have to do
is work in one. this makes sure that management NEVER rises from the
ranks, and thus contributes to the us and them split that makes paying
shit wages acceptable. It is now no longer true that you can work
your way up from the ranks; low lever workers are never given chances
anymore. But who knows how to run a restaurant, someone who has
worked there at various jobs, or some asshole who was too stupid to
major in art history or communications? This is the whole
Officer/Enlisted Doctor/Nurse split--the former has all the power and
glory, the latter does the shitwork. I say everyone should have to
work their way up through the ranks, and college should be something
you do part time for as much of your life as you want. Very few jobs
really require a college degree; it's just one way of making elitism
palatable. And face it, nowadays, what with tuition still climbing,
the only way you can go to school these days is to be very wealthy or
be a single moo on welfare. Sure, you could join the military to get
education bennies, go part time and work full time . .. so the rich
assholes get at least a 5 year jump on you. And they won't have to
pay back any loans, either. So the idea that education is a societal
leveler is bullshit, and has been since about the 70s. At least.
> Even if I don't get good
> service, I'll be polite. Poor service gets complaints but more to the
> point, good service draws commendations! You'd be amazed at how far
> those "comment cards" GO when you put an "attaboy" note on them!
> (That's another secret to getting five star service!)
You betcha! I've called the chief on cops who did a good job, too,
and MUNI folks are stunned if you call in to report a great driver.
And there still are some. But I don't really think in most jobs,
where workers are basically disposable, that it matters.
snip
> Freakin A! Because many companies employ "secret shoppers" to catch
> their staff out.
Or set them up.
>Or the management takes the customer's side even when
> the customer is OBVIOUSLY the one with the chip. "We DO apologise Mrs
> Uppity, we wILL take that return back, no reciept and even though your
> dog's chewed it to pieces and it looks like it's been soaked through!
> I'll discipline the counterperson for daring to question you! Here's a
> fukl refund and store credit for the purchase as well. Come back soon!"
> ARRRGH!
Well, here's a plug: Tom's Natural Food on Geary. I saw the owner
tell off a customer who was being an asshole. He told her that he
backs his employees 100%.
>
> > > You have to hide what you feel
> > > behind a mask, and you can never have a day where you just want to be left
> > > alone. They say the pay in retail is so low because it's a unskilled field
> > > where just anybody can walk in and do it, but after years in the field, I
> > > know better.
>
> It's like being an actress or model. It's like prostitution because THEY
> control your body for eight or nine hours a day! You can't sit when you
> want, slouch, frown, you have to be nice-nice teethy-teethy and The
> Customer Is Always Right. BTDT.
The worst is Safeway. Imagining being FORCED to smile at customers no
matter what they do. Several women have been harrassed by customers,
since a lot of men figure that if you don't attempt to kill them on
sight, you really want them. And any smiling means you want to fuck
RIGHT NOW. The women, of course, can't tell the wannabe rapos to fuck
off, because they can get fired. I hate Safeway. The only time I
shopped there was when I got foodstamps.
> The ones I feel REALLY sorry for are Disneyland and Disneyworld
> "castmembers"! They not only have to deal with mosquito-clouds of kids
> and parents, BUT they have secret shoppers, "smile" signs behind the
> counters, obscenely strict dresscodes AND miserable pay! The enforcement
> of the Stepford mentality there is staggering!
That's sick. I have always wanted to win something big, so when they
ask me, what are you going to do now? I could say I'M GOING TO BLOW
UP DISNEYLAND!
snip
> Anyway. yeah. life is a LOT easier when people are kind to each other!
Kind? You don't have to be kind.
(typing on one foot)
THAT WHICH IS HATEFUL TO YOU, DO NOT DO TO YOUR NEIGHBOR. Kind has
nothing to do with it. Courtesy does not require kindness, only good
breeding and civility. It is easy, and that's why I always get great
service, too. Except, of course, on MUNI.
elizabeth
> While we're on the subject of retail workers and the contempt they develop
> for customers, I found this article from the Hartford Courant:
> http://www.ctnow.com/news/local/northeast/hc-borders.artfeb03.story?coll=hc%
> 2Dheadlines%2Dnortheast
>
> (I'm not sure how to unwrap my lines- sorry if it's hard to get to.)
Great article, if somewhat tame. But my favorite section is this:
[about waiting in line with two J Crew clad suburban wifey types
whining about how LONG it was taking to get service, then, when they
get to the head of the line, at great length discuss what they were
going to order]
The woman in front of me speaks up: "After all that complaining in
line, you don't know what you want?"
A statue should be erected on the town green of every hamlet in honor
of this woman. She is the kind of customer that I'm not talking about:
the ones with common sense, common decency, common knowledge of how to
operate in society. I offer her my first-born male child, but she
declines. [no doubt she was CF]
end quote But you know, we CAN be like that lady. I have, on
numerous occasions, made similar snarky comments to assholes, and the
clerks are overjoyed with me. WE have all read plenty of case
histories of being such a Lady and making staff and customers share
the joy of ridiculing fuckwits. You know, all of us are capable of
being jerks, and sometimes, we need to be embarrassed publicly to stop
being jerks. Shame is very effective. Try it, if you haven't already
done so. Keep in mind that you will be making the clerks' day--as a
customer, YOU can say things THEY can't. Similarly, DON'T expect the
waitress to tell the breeders to control their brats--they can't do
that. YOU can. So do it. Don't sit there and get pissed, make a
scene, humiliate the breeders, and be sure and tip. Alternatively, if
a sprog behaves badly, LEAVE and tell the manager, in a loud enough
tone so that everyone in the place can hear you, why you are leaving,
and then sniff, "no wonder juvenile crime gets worse, look who is
training them to be thugs" or something along those lines.
Ya know how folks say that all throughout history, people say that the
next generation is garbage, as if to prove that it can't be so. I
say, maybe each generation really *is* getting worse.
Mike Healy
news:<3C62FA...@NOSPAMpacbell.net>...
> nothing to do with it. Courtesy does not require kindness, only good
> breeding and civility. It is easy, and that's why I always get great
> service, too. Except, of course, on MUNI.
Well put, elizabeth, especially that last bit, though I don't know what MUNI
is.
Is there a number where I can call your supervisor to compliment you on your
work?
Mike
Kent
: x-no-archive: yes
: There was also a man who came in and bought several very tall stacks of
: hardback sale books, because he had "just bought a bookshelf and had to
: fill it up." He didn't give a damn what the books even were! That left
: me dumbfounded.
We'd get those folks, too--we'd take that opportunity to unload all of the
crappy Bargain Books :)
Having TOO MANY shelves and NOT ENOUGH books is certainly not a problem
*I* can comprehend!!
Kent
Jason G
>
><snip long, needlessly vitriolic, and perplexing screed>
>
>Is this really Elizabeth, or is it a troll forging her identity again?
>
She hasn't hocked this week's food stamps to buy her Thorazine yet. Soon as she
gets her meds, she'll calm down.
--
Jason G
"Why, I'm as perky as Marlo Thomas with a lemon-lime douche!"
--Gutterboy, A.S.C.
JesterKat
<kmXXp...@pageszNET.invalid> wrote:
>Having TOO MANY shelves and NOT ENOUGH books is certainly not a problem
>*I* can comprehend!!
Nor I, most days. However, after one of my
let's-see-what-I-can-sell-on-half.com fits, I did have a couple of
feet of empty shelf space. I just sat there and marveled at it, since
it's such a rarity in my house. (It filled up again pretty soon.)
---JesterKat, with a car trunk full of books her *mom* wants her to
list on half.com...
***************
It ain't no myst'ry, if it's politics or hist'ry
The thing you gotta know is, everything is showbiz...
---Mel Brooks, "The Producers"
The Iron Doormat
> You betcha! I've called the chief on cops who did a good job, too,
> and MUNI folks are stunned if you call in to report a great driver.
> And there still are some. But I don't really think in most jobs,
> where workers are basically disposable, that it matters.
One time when we were at Disneyland, there was a guy manning one
of the rides who we just loved. Witty and funny and a bit snarky.
We went to the customer service desk on Main Street and asked to
file a compliment. "Complaint?" they asked. "No, a compliment."
They had to search around for the right form, and they gave us
really weird looks. But I'll wager they have the complaint forms
right up front at the ready.
> The worst is Safeway. Imagining being FORCED to smile at customers
> no matter what they do.
I also hate it that Safeway makes its checkers use my name. For a
while there, they were using the first name, which really
infuriated me. Especially since my name that came up on my ATM
card was NOT the name that I'd used all my life. Now, they use
the last name. But I use my parents' phone number for the "club
card" savings, so they never call me by my married last name.
It's always "Mrs. MaidenName," or even "Mr. HerMaidenName" when
they hand DH the reciept.
Missy
--
"Nobody told us how tough it is to raise kids.
It almost drove me to fortified wine." ~Marge Simpson
Jessica A.
> while there, they were using the first name, which really
> infuriated me. Especially since my name that came up on my ATM
> card was NOT the name that I'd used all my life. Now, they use
> the last name. But I use my parents' phone number for the "club
> card" savings, so they never call me by my married last name.
> It's always "Mrs. MaidenName," or even "Mr. HerMaidenName" when
> they hand DH the reciept.
>
> Missy
I hate that too and I almost never go there because of it.
Swan & Rat
>
> Lorz did tell us:
> : x-no-archive: yes
>
> : There was also a man who came in and bought several very tall stacks of
> : hardback sale books, because he had "just bought a bookshelf and had to
> : fill it up." He didn't give a damn what the books even were! That left
> : me dumbfounded.
>
> We'd get those folks, too--we'd take that opportunity to unload all of the
> crappy Bargain Books :)
One of the very most FRUSTRATING experiences rattie and I had once in
East lansing Michigan was at a hotel which had a GORGEOUS small dining
room off the main one. It was a "library" with shelves of books clear to
the ceiling. Beautiful books, old books small books large books! well,
as is our wont, we began to explore them. There were history texts mixed
in with old atlases, technical books shelved with fiction all a-jumble.
Then Rattie gave a yelp of pure pleasure!
I came over to find that she had discovered a 1915 history of Bavaria
and Southern Germany written in old German Fraktur! It had pictures,
maps, descriptions of pre World War I Germany and it was in beautiful
condition! As she read on she exclaimed eagerly "It has a feature on
Ingolstadt!" which is a town in Bavaria in which we were interested for
history and genealogical reasons!
I asked the manager "By the way, are any of these books for sale?" "NO."
came the answer "We got these from a decorator and they are shelved for
appearance. They aren't for sale." So, reasonably, Rat and I explained
that we were researching prewar Germany and bavaria specifically and
that HERE was a book which was not worth much, but contained text and
data that we needed. could we buy it, please?" Again, "No. Hotel policy
is that we do not sell decorative items." "Look... we will TRADE you,
then, two, no three or four beautifully bound modern books (or old ones,
Hell we don't care!) in expensive covers for that ONE book! You come out
ahead!" "No. We don't sell decorative items."
We never got the book. AFAIK it's still sitting there, neatly shelved,
to be LOOKED AT and not USED for its content!
To me, that's so fucking OBSCENE it makes me want to shreik!
I considered 'lifting' the book (we could have EASILY) but I don't want
it THAT way, I want it honestly! That was four years ago and I'm STILL
pissed off!
Swan
Noelle
news:3C646B...@NOSPAMpacbell.net...
> We never got the book. AFAIK it's still sitting there, neatly shelved,
> to be LOOKED AT and not USED for its content!
>
> To me, that's so fucking OBSCENE it makes me want to shreik!
I forget where I read this. There used to be a business that sold "books by
the yard" to people who wanted book-filled shelves for appearance's sake.
I've also heard (maybe here in the NG) of someone admiring books on a shelf,
only to find they were glued together and thus unreadable.
Every time I see the movie version of "My Fair Lady," I seriously covet
Professor Higgins's library. My dream house has a room like that.
--
Grant the fond darkness its mystical way with you;
Morning returns to us ever too soon.
--Dorothy Parker
Jbkred
>From: "Joy" <Naug...@att.net>
>Date: Thu, Feb 7, 2002 09:57 EST
>Message-id: <sBw88.479$9%6.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Joy,
I saw Ms. Ehrenreich give a talk at the Schwartz book store on Downer ave. I've
enjoyed her writing in the past and I found the premise of "Nickel and Dimed"
to be very interesting because I've worked in retail.
But the more she spoke the more uneasy I became. Yes, her "For the children"
and "Motherhood is the Ultimate Job" rheotoric rubbed me the wrong way.
However, what really pissed me off, was how this issue is only being taken
seriously because some well-off yuppie writer decided to slum for a few months.
Yet, at the same time, people who work these type of jobs for years are writing
about their experiences for 'zines, work-related websites, and independently
published books and are called lazy, stupid, ungrateful by some people who read
these things.
And please spare all the "I'm not a yuppie because I wear batik" upper
east-siders types who I often had to deal with while working in retail hell.
They seemed so sympathetic during Ms. Ehrenreich's speech, but dealing with
them on a customer service level is quite a different ball game.
Golightly Grrl
Cassia
> > to be LOOKED AT and not USED for its content!
> > To me, that's so fucking OBSCENE it makes me want to shreik!
>"Noelle" <gno...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> I forget where I read this. There used to be a business that sold "books by
> the yard" to people who wanted book-filled shelves for appearance's sake.
> I've also heard (maybe here in the NG) of someone admiring books on a shelf,
> only to find they were glued together and thus unreadable.
> Every time I see the movie version of "My Fair Lady," I seriously covet
> Professor Higgins's library. My dream house has a room like that.
I worked in a couple of bookstores.
One was a bargin shop of mostly publisher's remainders.
I had a woman come in for exactly that purpose, to buy hardback book to
fill the library for decorating purposes.
She walked out with about $80 worth of many of the same 49 cent books.
"Because I don't read and it just doesn't look right with all those shelves"
<blink><blink>
DPH
> Lorz said ...
>
> Q:...half-calf-venti-hazelnut-2%-soy-mocha-lattes.
> Q:
> What is the 'venti' part of this?
It's 'Starbucks-speak' for 'large[1].' Fortunately, most
of their employees will serve you if you specify a
size using English.
[1] or maybe 'medium' -- I refuse to learn Italian just
to be able to order a cup of coffee.
--
--dph
(dph AT luckytrout DOT com)
Gallilea
<kdle...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>What really gets me, too, is how understaffed the homes are.
>The only times that the homes are fully staffed and the
>residents are well-fed is when the *state* is there.
I agree completely. The first home I worked for didn't have a formal training
program-- they just stuck me with a (non-English-speaking) aide and I followed
her around and watched her. So I had no clue what I was doing wrong, or what I
should have been doing that I wasn't. The second home I worked at, however,
had a week-long training program developed by the state. It taught us what the
state believed we should be able to accomplish in a 8-hour shift. But given
the number of residents per aide, it was absolutely physically impossible to do
everything the state thought we were doing.
I went home in tears for my first two weeks because I felt like I was
neglecting my residents. But it became more and more obvious that NOBODY in
that home was doing everything the state thought we should. The state requires
all residents to have oral care* every night before bed-- when I tried to do
it, I had many perfectly lucid residents tell me that NEVER in all the years
they'd been there had an aide do oral care with them. Another night, I stopped
by the room of two two nice old ladies who were mostly self-sufficient, but
needed help getting in and out of bed because both were diaetic amputees. I
stopped by just before the end of my shift (3-11) to ask if they needed
anything before I left (they were still awake, watching tv in bed). They told
me that never, in the entire time they'd been there, had anybody stopped in
just to see if they needed anything. Never.
On my shift, we were required to do one shower per shift. Elderly people have
extremely delicate skin, so the shower must be done carefully, and they're
sitting down the whole time in a special chair, so there's a lot of bending
involved. It is simply not something that can be done quickly. There was an
aide working there who could undress, shower, dry, and dress a resident in the
time it took me just to do the shower itself. I asked him how he worked so
far. He said, "You gotta treat it like a car wash. You get 'em in, scrub 'em
up, hose 'em off, and get 'em out." I watched him: he DID scrub his residents
like Buicks, rather than people.
>There were two people who died at one of the homes I worked
>at. One died by hanging herself on an incorrectly tied
>restraint. One just wandered off outside the home and died
>in the summer heat. I am so thankful that I wasn't there
>when either of these incidents happened.
I had a resident once who used to beg me to take him up on the roof so he could
jump. Medicare had discontinued the funding for his physical therapy, so his
body was weakening and he had no daily exercise at all. *****His children
never visited*****, and his wife was dead. He became increasingly depressed
and despondent, and eventually had to be restrained because he kept trying to
kill himself by throwing himself onto the hard tile floor in the shower. So
much for "who will take care of you when you're older."
Gallilea
Kari Levstik
Gallilea wrote:
>
> I agree completely. The first home I worked for didn't have a formal training
> program-- they just stuck me with a (non-English-speaking) aide and I followed
> her around and watched her.
I worked up under a big fat nurse that constantly wrote
everyone up. I also worked my first job with a bunch of
aides that would fein sickness, go home early, then
come in to work the next day with their necks covered
in hickeys. Go figure.
They told me that never, in the entire time they'd been there, had
anybody stopped in just to see if they needed anything. Never.
Tell me about it. My co-workers would always get mad at
me for visiting the residents after finishing my rounds
and everything. I think that some people can really have
no empathy.
> On my shift, we were required to do one shower per shift. Elderly people have
> extremely delicate skin, so the shower must be done carefully, and they're
> sitting down the whole time in a special chair, so there's a lot of bending
> involved. It is simply not something that can be done quickly. There was an
> aide working there who could undress, shower, dry, and dress a resident in the
> time it took me just to do the shower itself.
One thing that I learned about working with elderly
people is that you get so much cooperation out of
them when you are patient with them. Rest assured,
I saw many of my co-workers get clocked upside the
head just for yanking the covers off the residents
without any warning and just ordering them to turn
over so they could change the bed.
Older people deserve to be treated with dignity and
respect. Too many of the aides that work in these
homes are just incapable of giving such courtesy.
> I had a resident once who used to beg me to take him up on the roof so he could
> jump. Medicare had discontinued the funding for his physical therapy, so his
> body was weakening and he had no daily exercise at all. *****His children
> never visited*****, and his wife was dead. He became increasingly depressed
> and despondent, and eventually had to be restrained because he kept trying to
> kill himself by throwing himself onto the hard tile floor in the shower. So
> much for "who will take care of you when you're older."
This is so tragic. You're right, though. So much for "who
will take care of you..."
Ron Sullivan
jbk...@aol.com (Jbkred) wrote, re Barbara Ehrenreich:
> However, what really pissed me off, was how this issue is only
> being taken
> seriously because some well-off yuppie writer decided to slum for
a
> few months.
Anyone else here remember _Black Like Me_?
Though I would hesitate to characterize Ehrenreich as a
well-off yuppie writer, partly because the first two terms
just aren't coherent with the last. She might be
independently wealthy, I suppose. She ain't Danielle Steele.
Steele... jeezis. You want breederific...
Ron Sullivan
Faultline, California's Environmental Magazine
http://www.faultline.org
--
I'd like to dress it up with a huge French tickler
and drive it through the Folsom Street Fair.
- Michael, ba.food
Rabbit
> > being taken
> > seriously because some well-off yuppie writer decided to slum for
> a
> > few months.
>
> Anyone else here remember _Black Like Me_?
Actually, Ron, all the time I was reading the book, that's what I thought of.
Rabbit
Kent
: Nor I, most days. However, after one of my
: let's-see-what-I-can-sell-on-half.com fits, I did have a couple of
: feet of empty shelf space. I just sat there and marveled at it, since
: it's such a rarity in my house. (It filled up again pretty soon.)
How well do you do on half.com? I keep thinking I'll sell on it (I buy all
the time) but everything I ever consider listing always has a copy listed
for an ungodly cheap amount, like $.50, so I figure I'd always get
underbid. So I sell on eBay, but that of course is much more trouble.
Kent
Kent
: I considered 'lifting' the book (we could have EASILY) but I don't want
: it THAT way, I want it honestly! That was four years ago and I'm STILL
: pissed off!
I remember your telling this story before, but I was misremembering that
somehow you HAD ended up with the book :( Maybe my morals are fuzzy, but
I'd have lifted it and replaced it with something else. They would
certainly not have missed it, and the book would be much happier with you,
so the overall happiness quotient would be increased.
Kent, who always believe that getting a book into loving hands is worth
significant karma points
Kent
: Q:...half-calf-venti-hazelnut-2%-soy-mocha-lattes.
: Q:
: What is the 'venti' part of this?
They clean out the air vent into the coffee?
Kent
DPH
Did you write them a letter requesting the book (via purchase
or trade) ?
Perhaps you'll have better luck.
Meri
DPH <dph@SEE_SIG_FOR_ADDRESS.com> wrote in message
news:m3wuxn1...@amory.mediaone.net...
It's large. Medium is Grande, small is Tall. *sigh*
Meri
Former Starbucks Barista
Jason G
>
>Egads, I was just reading that my dear little town is THE most
>unaffordable place to live in the United States, if you compare medium
>(not median, don't know why they used that particular word) family
>income of $68,000 with median housing price of $420,000. The City
>Council enacted a "living wage" law, so city workers make a minimum of
>$14/hour. Or $28k/year. Or (if we consider that two wage earners
>equals a family), $56k, still $12,000/year UNDER what a "medium"
>income is, and still far, far below what two people would need to be
>able to afford a median-priced house.
>
Okay, color me stupid but I'm trying to figure out how they expect the minimum
wage to be equal to the median wage?
--
Jason G
"Why, I'm as perky as Marlo Thomas with a lemon-lime douche."
-Gutterboy, a.s.c.
xintarr
>for customers, I found this article from the Hartford Courant:
Oh, thank you for posting that. You just set the therapy back about 5 years.
<g>
Xintarr, former Barnes&Noble AND Borders bookslut and espresso-whore (I mean,
"barista" <eyeroll>)
--------------------
"This one shopping trip per week is my one and only period of alone time, so I
treasure it." - AOL poster
Debbie the Underdogged
says...
Like condoms, where the smallest size is "Large".
--
---
Debbie the Underdogged d...@spamcop.net
"Poodles are space aliens who think they've disguised
themselves as dogs." - Paghat the Ratgirl
IleneB
wrote:
> There was also a man who came in and bought several very tall stacks of
> hardback
> sale books, because he had "just bought a bookshelf and had to fill it up."
> He
> didn't give a damn what the books even were!
I've heard of people who buy "books by the yard" to *decorate* with! A
friend of mine stayed at a B&B once that was decorated with *images* of
"impressive" books, like law texts and stuff.
Ilene B
DPH
> In article <u6ao196...@corp.supernews.com>, rainy...@yahoo.com
> says...
> >
> > DPH <dph@SEE_SIG_FOR_ADDRESS.com> wrote in message
> > news:m3wuxn1...@amory.mediaone.net...
> > > Jeri Jo Thomas <kata...@earthlink.net> writes:
> > > > What is the 'venti' part of this?
> > >
> > > It's 'Starbucks-speak' for 'large[1].' Fortunately, most
> > > of their employees will serve you if you specify a
> > > size using English.
> > >
> > > [1] or maybe 'medium' -- I refuse to learn Italian just
> > > to be able to order a cup of coffee.
> >
> > It's large. Medium is Grande, small is Tall. *sigh*
>
> Like condoms, where the smallest size is "Large".
Yeah, you have to feel sorry for the guys who wear
those little things. ;)
IleneB
<galileo...@cs.comremove> wrote:
> He became increasingly depressed
> and despondent, and eventually had to be restrained because he kept trying to
> kill himself by throwing himself onto the hard tile floor in the shower. So
> much for "who will take care of you when you're older."
When I work on geriatric psych (or 'shudder' Alzheimer's) I'm reminded
that there is such a thing as appropriate depression, or an appropriate
reason to hate one's life. One co-worker of mine had his father at
home, dying for two years, because his father completely feared getting
caught "in the system" where he would be kept alive.
I fully believe in rational suicide for myself at some point of old age
or disability. I suspect there will be a great underground for it as my
vaunted generation ages and runs into the old age wall. And it doesn't
really matter if one has children around to take care of them or visit
them or not (See Under: Admiral Nimitz's son/wife recent rational
suicide). I fully expect to rationally suicide if I don't die suddenly
in some accident or heart attack or something. I don't mean to say that
the miserable elders I see have no value, but that their lives are not
satisfying to them to any reasonable extent, and the future for that is
only downhill.
Ilene B
IleneB
<ro...@dnai.com> wrote:
> Anyone else here remember _Black Like Me_?
Sure do. And the author died in recent years from complications of the
drugs he took to dye his skin.
I don't feel he was slumming like the Ehrenreich was. Hmm, why not...
Can't quite say why, but his venture wasn't about economics, it was
about discrimination, large and small, at a time where there was much
to uncover.
Ilene B
IleneB
<jrgusenet@REMOVE_ooo_THIS_xxx_PART_yahoo.com> wrote:
> Okay, color me stupid but I'm trying to figure out how they expect the
> minimum
> wage to be equal to the median wage?
Well, if they used the word "medium," it makes idiotic whatever point
they were trying to make (or amount).
Ilene B
JesterKat
<kmXXp...@pageszNET.invalid> wrote:
>How well do you do on half.com? I keep thinking I'll sell on it (I buy all
>the time) but everything I ever consider listing always has a copy listed
>for an ungodly cheap amount, like $.50, so I figure I'd always get
>underbid. So I sell on eBay, but that of course is much more trouble.
Some stuff I've done really well with, some stuff is still mouldering
on my "stuff to sell" shelf after a year and a half. About the only
guidelines I use are: (1) if, as you describe above, it's already
listed very cheaply, I won't even list it--I donate those to the
public library; and (2) everything else, I undercut on the price. I
also ship everything *immediately*, so my seller rating is pretty
high.
I've listed a few CDs and videos, and those have all gone really
quickly.
I just got my year-end summary from my credit-card company. It used to
read "Amazon, Amazon, Amazon..." Now it reads "Half.com, Half.com,
Half.com..." I'm clearly not improving. ;-)
---JesterKat, who just snagged "American Gods" for
$4.99US--yesssssssss!
Swan & Rat
> > I considered 'lifting' the book (we could have EASILY) but I don't want
> > it THAT way, I want it honestly! That was four years ago and I'm STILL
> > pissed off!
>
> Did you write them a letter requesting the book (via purchase
> or trade) ?
> Perhaps you'll have better luck.
We wrote a letter AND emailed them. Reply both times was still "No".
Oh well. Perhaps, IF we're ever in that neck of the woods again, I'll
offer to strip the pages OUT of the binding, replace them with a filler
of blank paper (so they can KEEP their precious "pretty book" and then
take the pages home to rebind! At least the INTELLECTUAL content will be
saved!
*sigh*
Philistines!
Swan
Swan & Rat
Makes me want to get a special credit/debit card JUST for the store.
Name(first): _Sir_ Name(last): _Swan_
just so they'll automatically.... ohhh, nevermind. Probably wouldn't
work, anyway...
Swan
Veronique
> veroniq...@yahoo.com (Veronique) made obeisance before Us and spake thusly:
> >
> >Egads, I was just reading that my dear little town is THE most
> >unaffordable place to live in the United States, if you compare medium
> >(not median, don't know why they used that particular word) family
> >income of $68,000 with median housing price of $420,000. The City
> >Council enacted a "living wage" law, so city workers make a minimum of
> >$14/hour. Or $28k/year. Or (if we consider that two wage earners
> >equals a family), $56k, still $12,000/year UNDER what a "medium"
> >income is, and still far, far below what two people would need to be
> >able to afford a median-priced house.
> >
>
> Okay, color me stupid but I'm trying to figure out how they expect the minimum
> wage to be equal to the median wage?
I think (well, I do think sometimes, when I'm not raging about housing
prices and the cost of living!) that the purpose of the city council
raising their minimum wage was to ensure that their employees could at
least afford a shared room in a house full of strangers. It looks bad
when the clerk of the court is sleeping at the armory with the
homeless program.
The people I know who own their own homes either A) inherited a
substantial ($300k+) down payment from various dying relatives, B)
bought twenty to thirty years ago, or C) were born extremely wealthy.
The rest of us, all 84%, rent.
It's a bizarre and depressing thought to realize that even if I were
involved with someone, anyone, who made the same yearly wage I do
(which is below the median for families but above the median for
individuals), we could not afford to buy a house.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Love will get you like a case of train tracks.
Jerry
Hi folks, Jerry here from Safeway 1484 in Everett Washington. I help
to process perhaps a large fraction of the hundreds of new cards we
are handing out weekly in our new store. And your concerns are "worked
with" by many of our customers. What many are doing now days is
putting any name they want on the application. I have seen mickey
mouse, none yr business, and call me goofey and believe it or not our
processors in Arizona allow exactly as put. The only requirement for a
card is some name a 10 didget number (preferably a phone number, but I
have seen people put specail dates or special numbers) and a
signature.
The address and email parts are usually skipped and still the card
goes thru. The conception of the card verses the hundreds of coupons
is primarily to speed up check out, I know of 2 or more other cool
ideas safeway is working on for the card, not to mention automated
entery in the many sweepstakes we offer and the united frequent flyer
points linked with the card. So dont put it off. If you dont have a
card get one today. Most all checkers have a stack of cards in their
drawer so all you need is the application with your name number and
signature and they give it to you immediately.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
Robert Myers
"Jerry" <Je...@spiritbear.net> wrote in message
news:981ebcd6.02021...@posting.google.com...
<snip>
> The conception of the card verses the hundreds of coupons
> is primarily to speed up check out,
No, it's not. The primary purpose is to gather marketing information.
Manufacturers still put out coupons, as does the store (yes, I've seen
stores with cards put out coupons too, namely Randall's), so where's the
time savings?
And if things are sped up, that means prices overall can be lowered. Why do
they tend to go up in the stores that have cards such that the "marked down"
price is the same as the normal price in stores that don't have the card?
<snip>
Veronique
> "Jerry" <Je...@spiritbear.net> wrote in message
> news:981ebcd6.02021...@posting.google.com...
> <snip>
> > The conception of the card verses the hundreds of coupons
> > is primarily to speed up check out,
>
> No, it's not. The primary purpose is to gather marketing information.
> Manufacturers still put out coupons, as does the store (yes, I've seen
> stores with cards put out coupons too, namely Randall's), so where's the
> time savings?
Both Lucky's and Safeway have those bizarre in-store coupons that are
activated when you walk by them. And they both have consumer cards.
And they certainly accept manufacturer coupons.
V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep
Love will get you like a little bitty baaaa.
mroo philpott-smythe
> In article <20020208200041...@mb-fg.aol.com> ,
> jbk...@aol.com (Jbkred) wrote, re Barbara Ehrenreich:
> > However, what really pissed me off, was how this issue is only
> > being taken
> > seriously because some well-off yuppie writer decided to slum for
> a
> > few months.
> Anyone else here remember _Black Like Me_?
I'm certainly old enough.
> Though I would hesitate to characterize Ehrenreich as a
> well-off yuppie writer, partly because the first two terms
> just aren't coherent with the last. She might be
> independently wealthy, I suppose. She ain't Danielle Steele.
Speaking as a member of the bourgeoisie who has occasionally dined with
Poverty, the difference is, when yer broke, poor, and working class, you
don't have friends in whose living rooms you can doss down till you get
that job or gramma dies and leaves you enough to rent a hovel for a
couple of years. I often thought (while poor) that I might become
homeless, but the poor people I knew *knew* they were going to be
homeless. It was just a question of when.
So, yeah, she might not be wealthy, but like many other middle-class
writers, someday on her Credits page, we'll read something like, "And
thanks to Bla Blab Blabette, who fed and housed me while I worked on
this magnificent tome ..."
> Steele... jeezis. You want breederific...
Not really, but thanks for the offer. Has she spawned? Oh, what am I
thinking, she's probably loosed a flood of humanity from between those
short gams.
sq
"curmudgeonly? me?"
Critter
> I'm certainly old enough.
>
> > Though I would hesitate to characterize Ehrenreich as a
> > well-off yuppie writer, partly because the first two terms
> > just aren't coherent with the last. She might be
> > independently wealthy, I suppose. She ain't Danielle Steele.
>
> Speaking as a member of the bourgeoisie who has occasionally dined with
> Poverty, the difference is, when yer broke, poor, and working class, you
> don't have friends in whose living rooms you can doss down till you get
> that job or gramma dies and leaves you enough to rent a hovel for a
> couple of years. I often thought (while poor) that I might become
> homeless, but the poor people I knew *knew* they were going to be
> homeless. It was just a question of when.
>
> So, yeah, she might not be wealthy, but like many other middle-class
> writers, someday on her Credits page, we'll read something like, "And
> thanks to Bla Blab Blabette, who fed and housed me while I worked on
> this magnificent tome ..."
>
> > Steele... jeezis. You want breederific...
>
> Not really, but thanks for the offer. Has she spawned? Oh, what am I
> thinking, she's probably loosed a flood of humanity from between those
> short gams.
I think Danielle Steele has had 5 husbands and 9 children,
but I can't find any references and my memory may be off.
Ron Sullivan
philpott-smythe <sqa...@idiom.com> wrote:
> Ron Sullivan wrote:
>> Anyone else here remember _Black Like Me_?
>
> I'm certainly old enough.
Remember it quick, before you're _too_ old...
(Sorry. it's been a rough week with the m-i-l.)
> So, yeah, she might not be wealthy, but like many other
> middle-class
> writers, someday on her Credits page, we'll read something like,
> "And
> thanks to Bla Blab Blabette, who fed and housed me while I worked
> on
> this magnificent tome ..."
Oh, no doubt. There's more to poverty than lack of money.
>> Steele... jeezis. You want breederific...
>
> Not really, but thanks for the offer. Has she spawned?
Critter answered this at least as well as I could. Me, I've
lost count. Steele spews them out like the exit from
Disneyland at closing time.
The bitch of it is, she's also rich. That means each of the
li'l darlins consumes as much as a small Third World
country. Speaking of class markers.
Ron Sullivan
Faultline, California's Environmental Magazine
http://www.faultline.org
--
Nothing beats one's spirits down like age and experience.
White-hot rage eventually gives way to a well-aged brew of
contempt, despair, and amusement.
- Grim, ascf
Uncle Davey
news:<3C65C2...@NOSPAMpacbell.net>...
> > Jessica A. wrote:
> > >
> > > > I also hate it that Safeway makes its checkers use my name. For a
> > > > while there, they were using the first name, which really
> > > > infuriated me. Especially since my name that came up on my ATM
> > > > card was NOT the name that I'd used all my life. Now, they use
> > > > the last name. But I use my parents' phone number for the "club
> > > > card" savings, so they never call me by my married last name.
> > > > It's always "Mrs. MaidenName," or even "Mr. HerMaidenName" when
> > > > they hand DH the reciept.
> > > >
> > > > Missy
> > >
> > > I hate that too and I almost never go there because of it.
> >
> > Makes me want to get a special credit/debit card JUST for the store.
Have you people never heard of cash or what?
Hey, antichrist lackey!
Is there no buying at your store without a fucking card?
Why don't you fuckers take MONEY?
You'll be asking for implanted chips in the wrists next, and not letting
people buy bread if they ain't got it.
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
"Robert Myers" <rpmy...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tMX98.30062$Re7.1...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
>
The reason why this stupid game takes place is not only for marketing info.
That's just a decoy reason.
The real reason is that the forces of evil are trying to make society go
cash free.
Once cash is gone in favour of electronic money, it'll be beyond any
pressure group to get it back again.
Once that happens, someone very nasty will be in a position to monitor
everything any of us do, and stop any transactions they don't like.
You're absolutely right not to like these cards, for once I agree with you
about something.
Uncle Davey
George
>
> "Jerry" <Je...@spiritbear.net> wrote
> > Swan & Rat <lab...@NOSPAMpacbell.net> wrote
> > > >
> > > > > I also hate it that Safeway makes its checkers use my name. For a
> > > > > while there, they were using the first name, which really
> > > > > infuriated me. Especially since my name that came up on my ATM
> > > > > card was NOT the name that I'd used all my life. Now, they use
> > > > > the last name. But I use my parents' phone number for the "club
> > > > > card" savings, so they never call me by my married last name.
> > > > > It's always "Mrs. MaidenName," or even "Mr. HerMaidenName" when
> > > > > they hand DH the reciept.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Makes me want to get a special credit/debit card JUST for the store.
>
> Have you people never heard of cash or what?
It's much harder to be surly when you have to say the customer's name
to the customer's face. Requiring that was a good business decision.
> > Hi folks, Jerry here from Safeway 1484 in Everett Washington.
Hi Jer.
> > I help
> > to process perhaps a large fraction of the hundreds of new cards we
> > are handing out weekly in our new store. And your concerns are "worked
> > with" by many of our customers. What many are doing now days is
> > putting any name they want on the application. I have seen mickey
> > mouse, none yr business, and call me goofey and believe it or not our
> > processors in Arizona allow exactly as put. The only requirement for a
> > card is some name a 10 didget number (preferably a phone number, but I
> > have seen people put specail dates or special numbers) and a
> > signature.
I think it would also be much harder to be surly when saying "thank you
Mr. Mouse" to the customer's face.
> > [...] Hope this helps.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Hey, antichrist lackey!
>
> Is there no buying at your store without a fucking card?
>
> Why don't you fuckers take MONEY?
>
> You'll be asking for implanted chips in the wrists next, and not letting
> people buy bread if they ain't got it.
>
> Uncle Davey
And there are the valuable di$count$ for using the card.
So far, no one's used my info for direct marketing. I wonder how that
would go. "May I interest you in a lovely pair of coconuts?" "Have you
ever considered the merit of a seedless English cucumber?"
George
Kent
: And there are the valuable di$count$ for using the card.
Are you talking about when they mark up Pepsi from 79 cents/2 liters to
$1.29 and then say "Save 40 cents with your store card--only 89 cents for
members!"?
Kent
George
I don't drink Pepsi.
But I do look for their "buy one get one free" specials.
George