The Sprog Excuse
gnipgnop
loving CF people. I'm extremely happy with my SO of 12 years and we are
so completely right for eachother and definitively CF. We are also both
completely frustrated creatively and financially. And now I find myself
more and more alienated from my friends that have joined the breeding
world.
My social group is financially "working middle income" to "lower
income." Many of my aquaintances are also creative, most underemployed
and frustrated. I see more and more of them deciding to breed after many
years of being completely not ready for a family. My not so popular
opinion is the one that these people reach and age and point in there
life where they realize their dreams are not coming true. Hope is
fading, so why not have a baby. Instant excuse for not making anything
else happen in their lives.
So, when I am asked how my carreer is going and I reply that it's not
where it should be, I have no excuses. I have only myself and my lack of
talent to blame. But when one of the new babymakers gives the same
response, they are applauded for putting the sprog first and making
great sacrifices to their art/carreer. BULLSHIT!! They are in the same
boat as they were before...right next me...a dose of talent drowned in
low self confidence. The difference is that they created an instant
excuse. I'm finding this completely frustrating.
Of course, since everyone else that knows me knows I am very
dissatisfied with the direction of my life to this point, they assume
all I need is a little bit of encouraging success and I'll join their
evil little club.
Any non-successful people have some supportive words?
gnipgnop
Dorothea Salo
> Any non-successful people have some supportive words?
Sure, luv. For one thing, it often helps to realize that success is
a function of pure luck as well as of talent. No need to be down on
your talent just because up 'till now it hasn't gotten you what you
think you deserve.
For another, if you manage smart it isn't too hard to do OK without
wads of cash. Darn few (in this country, anyway) would call us rich;
in the -- yeesh, five years, time DOES fly -- my husband and I have lived
together we've never made more than $25K a year (together, I mean, not
individually; $50K a year would be riches beyond dreams of avarice for
us!), and we've done just fine and dandy, thank you, and happy as clams.
(May I recommend the misc.consumers.frugal-living newsgroup, if the
above paragraph intrigues you. I don't post there any more because I
just got to the point where I hadn't much more to say, but it's still
a great group.)
For a third, what is often called "sour grapes" can be a useful way
of evaluating whether you're truly doing what makes you happy. There's
no shame in stepping back, looking HARD at your chosen profession, and
deciding that it's done all it can for you and it's time to move on. I
did that, not long ago, and it has turned out to be an extremely smart
decision. (There's a trick to it, of course; being willing to come to
the conclusion that the profession is at least part of the problem. A
lot of professions, particularly the more creative ones, tend to blame
anyone who doesn't "make it" for not "making it", never mind what else
might be going on in the profession in general.)
Hope some of this helps.
Dorothea
--
Dorothea Salo doro...@terracom.net
Perch of the Cosmic Rooster http://www.terracom.net/~dorothea
"Introverts of the world... well, I guess we wouldn't want to unite,
would we?" --Colleen Condron
c-toast
> I wish I was one of the professionally successful, well balanced, fun
> loving CF people. I'm extremely happy with my SO of 12 years and we
are
> so completely right for eachother and definitively CF. We are also
both
> completely frustrated creatively and financially. And now I find
myself
> more and more alienated from my friends that have joined the breeding
> world.
>
> My social group is financially "working middle income" to "lower
> income." Many of my aquaintances are also creative, most underemployed
> and frustrated. I see more and more of them deciding to breed after
many
> years of being completely not ready for a family. My not so popular
> opinion is the one that these people reach and age and point in there
> life where they realize their dreams are not coming true. Hope is
> fading, so why not have a baby. Instant excuse for not making anything
> else happen in their lives.
I think that is a major factor in the decision to breed also. There is
something *missing* in their lives. Other endeavors didn't make them
happy, so they try to fill the void with sproggen. Unfortunately, they
soon discover that the sproggen isn't what was missing after all. What
they end up with is being even more financially unstable. The
satisfaction they feel with their life partner decreases. They are
trapped with mewling rugrats and there is no escape. They soon realize
that the kid isn't going to fill the void. Society gives them a pat on
the back and sends them on their merry way to cope. Ugh. What a
life. Or no life. At least until the chicks leave the coop.
>
> So, when I am asked how my carreer is going and I reply that it's not
> where it should be, I have no excuses. I have only myself and my lack
of
> talent to blame. But when one of the new babymakers gives the same
> response, they are applauded for putting the sprog first and making
> great sacrifices to their art/carreer. BULLSHIT!! They are in the same
> boat as they were before...right next me...a dose of talent drowned in
> low self confidence. The difference is that they created an instant
> excuse. I'm finding this completely frustrating.
Yeah, but they still have to deal with their homelife. There is no way
that they can say, "What a mess, I better change it." They are stuck.
They can't get rid of the happy familee. They have 18+ years to wallow
in their dissatisfaction. And gawd forbid they should express some
sort of dissatisfaction with having little Bratley and little Cagelin.
You, OTOH, are able to change your life if you so choose. Yeah, they
have the excuse, but they also have the problems that go along with it.
I have a big problem with the assumption (not saying that you have made
that assumption) that because we have chosen not to bow to society's
demands and pop out, or otherwise obtain, a couple of crib lizards,
that we are supposed to somehow do MORE with our lives because we are
not chained to kids. Why is that? It's sorta stupid.
I had a career that I was pretty good at. I made a decent salary. I
advanced and did all the things I was supposed to. I was profoundly
miserable. I hated my life. The thought of going back to that stupid
career made me cry every Monday morning. My self-esteem was crushed
under the weight of hating what I was doing. For a while I thought
that having a kid might be the answer. I thank my lucky stars that
fate intervened and prevented it from happening.
The real answer? I quit my career. I chucked it all. I'm happily
careerfree now. I am getting my resume together and *thinking* about
getting some meaningless temp work. Meaningless is good. My home life
is great. I am a housewife and it is cool. My self-esteem is back.
We ain't rich, but we are happy.
Of course, if you like what you are doing, there is no reason to chuck
it all. The point is to just keep doing it and not worry about it all
that much. It is tough not having enough money, but sometimes a person
comes to the point where money seems meaningless and stupid.
>
> Of course, since everyone else that knows me knows I am very
> dissatisfied with the direction of my life to this point, they assume
> all I need is a little bit of encouraging success and I'll join their
> evil little club.
Yeah, and be completely trapped like them. *shudder*
>
> Any non-successful people have some supportive words?
Depends on what you mean by non-successful. I am successful by my
standards. I am a pretty happy camper most of the time. There are an
awful lot of people who don't think I am successful because I don't
bring home a hefty paycheck. I don't care. I know what is best for me
and for my homelife. Nobody ever dies thinking about the extra hours
they put in at work and how ignoring their home life for years was all
worth it...
c-toast
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SleepyCat
gnipgnop wrote :
>I wish I was one of the professionally successful, well balanced, fun
>loving CF people. I'm extremely happy with my SO of 12 years and we are
>so completely right for eachother and definitively CF. We are also both
>completely frustrated creatively and financially. And now I find myself
>more and more alienated from my friends that have joined the breeding
>world.
<snip for brevity>
>Of course, since everyone else that knows me knows I am very
>dissatisfied with the direction of my life to this point, they assume
>all I need is a little bit of encouraging success and I'll join their
>evil little club.
>
>Any non-successful people have some supportive words?
Well, I can tell you you're not alone.
I'm 31 and happily married to my soulmate, but I've already changed careers
3 times and am far from "success" in my newly-chosen field (web
development/programming) ... but then I've only been doing it for 3 months
...
Anyway, last week I got the quarterly Alumni Bulletin from one of the 5
colleges I've attended, and what did I find but I full-page spread on a
former roomate of mine (11 years ago). She is a senior editor for a major
publishing house and just published her second book, an esoteric work on
deep-sea marine life and its ties to evolutionary theories. Mind you, this
girl was no Einstein. We were lab partners in Biology 101 and I held her
hand through the whole thing. Made me feel about two inches tall, I tell ya
... here she is this hotshot author getting writeups in the alumni mag, and
I'm still doing my little temp jobs and trying to get a business off the
ground. And I don't have the excuse that I was raising bayyyybbeeees.
I too have friends who, as you describe, are turning to pregnancy as an
escape hatch from a life that looks devoid of any other achievement. It may
be popular, but that doesn't make it right. Where are they going to be when
Sprogleigh is reaching adolescence? They'll be fortysomething and will have
wasted another 10+ of the best years of their lives catering to the whims of
a pint-sized tyrant. They'll be worn out. And their financial strain will
make ours look like nothing!
You and I at least have a chance to "find ourselves." So we're late
bloomers -- but we're the strong ones, because we keep plugging. We don't
cop out. Don't give in to the breeders!!!
BTW ... welcome to ascm ... I think you'll find the positive kind of support
you need here. Not all CF'ers are rich, famous and successful; I'm sure not
by societal standards! But we do stick together, and we do know how to
think for ourselves ... a rare talent few breeders ever develop.
Christine
IleneB
relationship over time.
I *do* think a lot of people have kids when they feel dead-ended
"something to do". I see momeees posting on Those Other Groups who just
can't wait to quit their miserable jobs to stay home. Then again, I
think maybe women who expect to have kids often make half-ass plans
about work.
By the way, a lot of us don't have mega-careers! I define a "career" as
a job that you have, at least in part, in order to *get that particular
work done*, and you contribute to the field, and so on. I don't
necessarily see as "career" a business-type job where you have
promotions and all. After all, does anyone really *care* if Gillette
Razor Blades sells 5% more this year? That, in my book, is a job, not a
career.
Most of us have to work for a living. Making it meaningful and
expressive is a minority achievement, plus, it should supply you with
the financial benefits that you need. It's kind of a problem, here,
because you *have* to go to work to eat and stuff. If I *had* to make
love and eat chocolate every day from 8-4:30 or else I'd be homeless, I
suspect the pleasures and incentives would wear off. (Any takers for a
science experiment?)
I think there's often been a middle-class dichotomy for women "career
VERSUS family". Well, what if you don't want or have either? That
leaves "having a life." I've been unable to create "career" for myself,
and have tried harder, further and messier than almost anyone I know. I
consider myself an honorable failure in that sphere. I do try to have
my current job accommodate some things that it can work for- money,
benefits, time flexibility, not having to dress for work or walk the
walk/talk the talk, and, I do get to read a great deal on quiet nights.
Yes, it's a professional-level, licensed job, but that's only because
that's how I make enough money, not because it makes it a career.
I still have hope to find vocation/avocation, but doubt it'll be how I
pay the bills.
Ilene B
Eve Forward
>
> Any non-successful people have some supportive words?
>
Heya Gnip,
A friend sent this to me awhile ago when I was in a similar "blue
period".
--------------------
>
> It bugs me when parents call the child-free “selfish”.
> The theory that “children are our future” or “children are our way of being immortal”... THAT is the most selfish thing I can think of. Say what you like about them, a child is another human being. And, in many ways, a complete stranger. An individual. NOT you, born again; not your “second chance”. That child is it’s own self.
> Would you pick some complete stranger off the street and force them to do well in all the things in school that you failed in? Would you shove them, mold them, into attempting to be the next President or Olympic gold winner? Would you suffer and whine when, inevitably, they fail to live up to your hopes and dreams? Would you expect this stranger, with its own life to live, to coddle you in your old age? To deal with the problems that your generation has inflicted on this planet? This stranger never asked for this relationship. You’re the one selfishly forcing them into it.
> And frankly, why? You cannot take credit for their success, just because you bred them. They are real people. Their triumphs are their own. When Joe Shmoe wins the Massive Medal, sure, he thanks his mom, but does everyone think, “Oh, that’s all due to Mrs. Shmoe. It really should be HER medal.” No, they acknowledge that it’s Joe who did the work, proved his skill, and triumphed. Sometimes they triumph in SPITE of their parents.
> People want their children to change the world, to make a difference. In many cases it’s because they themselves are such failures. But let’s face it. Most children are not going to grow up to change the world, beyond adding one more eating, buying, wasting, crapping body to the overstrained planet. With some notable exceptions like Jesus and Hitler, the world isn’t changed by people. It’s changed by ideas. (although you could say that even J & H were mostly running on ideas.)
> That’s where I see myself.
> I don’t have kids. I create art and ideas. They are my offspring. My shot at immortality. My hope for the future. My support in my old age. And chances are, they’ll do a lot more world changing than some lump of protoplasm out there.
> A few books or a painting take up a lot less resources than one human being. And yet they can deeply affect a lot more people. When someone writes to me and says, “Your story changed my life”; that is my impact on the world. When someone says, “Your art is wonderful!” - that makes me proud. And unlike Joe Shmoe’s Mom, I CAN take pride in my work. It was ME, ME ME ME, my thoughts, my brain, my hands, that made that. Not just my DNA. Myself, what makes me, ME. I as an individual have thus impacted the future in a recognizable way, with my NAME on it, much more than Mrs. Shmoe has in serving up a mixed helping of her faceless genetics.
> And I’ll do it all by myself, through struggle and strain, through having to take a crappy day job to support myself, through not being as “successful” as my rich friends, through living cheap so I could take the time for that most precious thing of all... my art. My future. My brain-child.
>
> Hope this helps,
---------------------------------------------
I hope it helps you, too.
-E
bicker_on_re...@yahoo.com
alt.support.childfree.moderated, IleneB <ile...@shore.net>
escribió en el mensaje de noticias
<230819991410154536%ile...@shore.net>:
>By the way, a lot of us don't have mega-careers! I define a "career" as
>a job that you have, at least in part, in order to *get that particular
>work done*, and you contribute to the field, and so on. I don't
>necessarily see as "career" a business-type job where you have
>promotions and all. After all, does anyone really *care* if Gillette
>Razor Blades sells 5% more this year? That, in my book, is a job, not a
>career.
I can't agree. I'm a web developer: It is actually my
second "career"... indeed I consider it my second
"professional career," even though I wasn't a lawyer or
doctor last time around. (I was an engineering auditor.)
The distinction, for me, between "career" and "job" is that,
in a career, you care about whether you do a good job,
while, in a job, you only care whether you get paid.
("Professional", to me, means using skills derived from a
University degree, in the conduct of a career.)
just bicker®
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to
persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan
http://humanist.net http://www.csicop.org http://www.skeptic.com
Kent
: The distinction, for me, between "career" and "job" is that,
: in a career, you care about whether you do a good job,
: while, in a job, you only care whether you get paid.
: ("Professional", to me, means using skills derived from a
: University degree, in the conduct of a career.)
Sorry, but I've had high standards in EVERY ONE of my "jobs", and there've
been many. Even when I was waiting tables, I was as concerned with giving
good service as I was with grabbing a good tip at the end.
Kent
IleneB
Personal pride and standards say that you do a good job, regardless of
what the job *means* to you. (And I, too, was a damn good waitress). My
feeling is, if you're too bloody good for your job, then you should be
able to do it *perfectly* with one hand behind your back, not slovenly.
It's like a zen thing- you do it because it's there to do and you
should do it. There's a lot of distance between some major career focus
(which is very often an ego focus) and sitting around filing one's
nails waiting for a paycheck. You're getting paid, do the job.
Ilene B
bicker_on_re...@yahoo.com
alt.support.childfree.moderated, Kent
<kmp...@nina.pagesz.net> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
<7pt71e$a27$1...@netra-news.ntrnet.net>:
>bicker_on_re...@yahoo.com wrote:
>: The distinction, for me, between "career" and "job" is that,
>: in a career, you care about whether you do a good job,
>: while, in a job, you only care whether you get paid.
>: ("Professional", to me, means using skills derived from a
>: University degree, in the conduct of a career.)
>been many. Even when I was waiting tables, I was as concerned with giving
>good service as I was with grabbing a good tip at the end.
Why are you sorry?
IleneB
And let the games begin, at least among RNs. Because you can go to a
hospital diploma school, a two-year A.D., or a four-year BSN and all of
you still take the same boards and get the same license. (Except that
the four-years were flunking in such numbers, they had to revamp the
test). The battle rages on, based on people stamping their little
insecure feet and whining "But other professions have a four-year
degree and *we* wanna be a real profession."
Seems also that most jobs don't use "skills derived from a University
degree", as most degrees don't cause skills to be derived. And a lot of
"engineers" in the tech world have all sort of degrees or lack thereof.
I resent the suggestion that only a four-year Capital U-niversity
degree makes a person professional, or else they're some gum-cracking
slob waiting for their Friday eagle to fly.
I repeat, that I think "career" means the person performs the work for
more than the need to earn a living, but to "do that particular work"
and to perhaps contribute to the field. That doesn't mean anyone
feeling otherwise doesn't do a very good job.
Depends on the color of your collar, I reckon.
Ilene B
In article <37e78389....@24.128.60.9>,
John & Mari Morgan
>Personal pride and standards say that you do a good job, regardless of
>what the job *means* to you. (And I, too, was a damn good waitress). My
>feeling is, if you're too bloody good for your job, then you should be
>able to do it *perfectly* with one hand behind your back, not slovenly.
Yep. And conversely, if you simply can't do a good job at it, maybe
you should change jobs. I am an _awful_ waitress. I was horrible at
it. It is just not one of my talents, although I tried really hard. So
rather than dick around doing a lousy job of it, I gave it up and did
something else I was somewhat better at (cleaning cages and playing
with the critters in a kennel/cattery) even though it meant a pay cut.
That's also why I quit cooking and went back to college when my
physical condition began to affect my performance in the kitchen -
keeping my job and doing it half-assed just wasn't fair to everyone
else who was busting butt trying to do a good job.
>It's like a zen thing- you do it because it's there to do and you
>should do it. There's a lot of distance between some major career focus
>(which is very often an ego focus) and sitting around filing one's
>nails waiting for a paycheck. You're getting paid, do the job.
Well, I agree, although I have been "blessed" with a few jobs where I
was pretty much a token warm body in the office or store and there
really _was_ little or no actual _work_ to do. I admit I enjoyed those
very much, especially while I was a student and could do my studying
while getting paid. (The absolute best job for that was night watcher
in a university computer lab my junior year. It was an obscure little
lab in the basement of a building and almost _nobody_ used it except
during crunch times a couple of times a semester, so I got paid rather
handsomely* to sit in a room and IRC or write papers or read for eight
hours a night. This was totally acceptable to administration.)
Mari
*Compared to working in the dining halls, anyway, which was pretty
much the only other on-campus option for non-workstudy students unless
you knew the Right People and were willing to wait until partway
through the semester when the work-study awards ran out to get your
job. :-p
Michelle
wrote:
>Sorry, but I've had high standards in EVERY ONE of my "jobs", and there've
>been many. Even when I was waiting tables, I was as concerned with giving
>good service as I was with grabbing a good tip at the end.
Yeh, but then, YOU're an INTJ.
-- Michelle<--y'all never should've gotten this started, you know!