Re: Area groups calling for DCFS policy changes. Some here say more money will fix the problems. Right.
kane_...@yahoo.com
Michael© wrote:
"ome here say more money will fix the problems. Right."
Yes, more money for preventive services, and for inhome services. More
money for better educated and trained workers for fewer cases.
You have a problem with that, and I have a problem with a propaganda
piece.
In fact, and this has been used by posters I oppose in this ng, there
is considerable disagreement with the sentiments of your pasted article
by other media, as far back as 2001.
#
ILLINOIS
# Number of foster children: 29,159
# Previous system: Service providers paid based on number of children
they served; high-publicity abuse cases led to rapid increase in foster
care placements.
# Major changes: Service providers paid based on success in finding
safe, permanent homes for children; increased training for workers;
agency monitored by University of Illinois.
# How it's better: Number of children in foster care has dropped from
more than 51,000 in 1997 to less than 30,000 at the end of 2000;
providers have incentives to seek permanent placements instead of
keeping kids in foster care indefinitely; savings from caseload
reductions reinvested in performance contracting.
# Problems: State criticized for placing children without regard for
which agency would serve them best; contracting structure means some
providers will fail; contracting time line means state cannot use
current data during contracting process.
# Comment: "Once it was made clear to the private agencies that they
had to move kids into safe, permanent homes, Illinois went from leading
the nation in the rate of kids per capita in foster care to leading the
nation in the number of adoptions." -- Ben Wolf, associate legal
director, American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110401/met_7732418.html
> http://www.pjstar.com/stories/100205/TRI_B7NNM59T.037.shtml
I know propaganda when I see it, and this is loaded with the fallacious
appeal to emotions common to such bs.
Nothing is supported with source and facts. Just opinion and tear
jerking stories.
>
>
>
> By ELAINE HOPKINS of the Journal Star
>
> The woman's sign read: "DCFS will lie in court to keep your
> child for money." Passing cars honked in sympathy.
Proof?
> "A lot of children are separated from their families because
> their families are poor," she said.
And a lot of poor families neglect and abuse. There is more crime among
the poor. There is more drug and alcohol abuse among the poor. There is
less education among the poor. The claim above has to ride on the
premise that abuse is the same, well off or poor, and that simply is
not true.
> Last year DCFS found that eight foster parents committed abuse
> in the two counties. Sixteen children were affected.
You need to look up what the difference is between "abuse" by a parent
and "abuse" is by a foster parent. A parent can spank without it being
abuse. A foster parent spanks and even if there is NO mark it is logged
as an abuse event. In fact, just speaking harshly to a foster child can
be and is counted as an abuse if caught.
How injured were those 16 children? No proof of anything but that
"abuse" is different for foster's than for bio parents. YOu don't think
so? Try looking up the discipline policies of a few states as applied
to foster parents.
This is typical for all states, and it's the short list, compared to
some states:
http://www.psfpa.com/regulation.htm
"
§ 3700.63. Foster child discipline, punishment and control policy.
(A) Discipline.
(1) Foster children shall be directed with techniques that
stress praise and encouragement.
(2) Foster children may not be subjected to verbal abuse,
derogatory remarks or threats of removal from the foster home.
(B) Punishment. The following forms of punishment are prohibited:
(1) Abusive discipline practices.
(2) Physical punishment inflicted upon the body.
(3) Punishment for bedwetting or actions related to toilet
training.
(4) Delegation of punishment to another child.
(5) Denial of meals, clothing or shelter.
(6) Denial of elements of the service plan or ISP
(7) Denial of communication with, or visits by, the child's
family.
(8) Assignment of physically Strenuous exercise or work solely
as punishment.
(C) Control Passive physical restraint is the only allowable method
of restraining a child."
Any single one of this violated is counted as "abuse" in every state
I've ever surveyed, about 8 of them.
In some states derogatory remarks related to family, race, religion,
are considered abuse if practiced by a foster parent.
To review a few more discipline policy statements, try:
In fact, if you weren't such a propagandist yourself you'd take a
little time to see how badly misinformed you are by reading up on more
about fostering. It's there.
> "It's a class issue. Poor whites and poor blacks don't stand a
> chance," said Obadele, who left DCFS to pursue other interests
That is because abuse and neglect are found at a higher rate among the
more economically disadvantaged "class."
One of the reasons I advocate for better and more realistic funding is
so that services that will help eleviate poverty can be provided.
In 1980-81, not banner years by any means, at least the agency I did my
practicum with had an active full time staff doing, at most branches,
referral services....not passive, but taking a profile of the inquiring
person, then going hunting for resources for them, compiling a listing
tailored to their needs, and even providing some money for
transportation right out of CSD budget.
Nothing like that exists today in Oregon, and I hear other states have
had to drop such programs years ago. A simple little service..one that
could be staffed by clerical staff...and it's dropped. Brilliant.
>
>
> http://www.pjstar.com/stories/100205/TRI_B7NNM59T.037.shtml
>
Just for fun, and to get yourself better educated, and to prove once
again that some of you lie, try reading up on the issue of false
allegations, and see how
it might apply to this story YOU pasted in:
"The worst consequence of undetected false claims is that children who
get away with lying become more and more disturbed. Nancy Thomas,
therapeutic foster mom, has spent her adult life helping seriously
disturbed children. In her book, Dandilion on my pillow, butcher knife
underneath, she reports on the sad consequences of serial lying. One
child had come into foster care after accusing his mother of subjecting
him to a child prostitution ring. His mother and another adult went to
prison. Another accused person committed suicide. His social worker
lost her license. But as the story unfolded, Nancy found out that there
was no child prostitution ring: the child's father had coached the
child to make these charges, as a way of hurting his ex-wife. Of all
Nancy's troubled children, this was the one who never really
recovered."
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2005/0302morse.html
When I was at classes with relatives that were applying to foster they
were told by the instructor that foster parents routinely could not
spend more than a year in fostering without at least one serious
allegation of abuse made against them...false allegation...and the
chances were good it would be "founded" and on their record, and
putting them on heavier supervision, AT THE VERY LEAST...with a real
risk of criminal charges, as well as suspension of their license
and....get this....removal of their own children.
The amount of lying that goes on in this ng is monumental, and YOU lend
yourself to it, Michael, the contributor.
When you've got facts, get back to us. So far you are just babbling
wild accusations you cannot prove.
> --
> Michael Oobalewee
>
> I hit him to get his attention. I shot him to calm him down. I killed him
> to reason with him.
> Henry Rollins
Still on the violence kick, eh?
The truth is that just like you and others on this ng the propaganda
flows out of your mouths like runny shit.
0:->
Doug
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110401/met_7732418.html
> http://www.pjstar.com/stories/100205/TRI_B7NNM59T.037.shtml
>I know propaganda when I see it, and this is loaded with the fallacious
>appeal to emotions common to such bs.
>Nothing is supported with source and facts. Just opinion and tear
>jerking stories.
Hi, Kane,
Information provided by police and former child protective services
personnel is considered "propaganda" when you disagree with it, Kane. Your
response indicates that you are decidedly rather poor at knowing what
propaganda is.
You don't see it as you are producing it but you see it when it is not
there.
In fact, attempting to refute the statements made in the articles by civic
leaders, former CPS contractors, state legislators and police by simply
calling it "propaganda" instead of challenging the statements with facts is,
well, propaganda.
>Just for fun, and to get yourself better educated, and to prove once
>again that some of you lie, try reading up on the issue of false
>allegations, and see how
>it might apply to this story YOU pasted in:
Actually, posters to this newsgroup have spent considerable time considering
false allegations wrongfully substantiated by CPS. Members of this forum
have pointed out that these false allegations have led to children being
wrongfully incarcerated in state custody. Your pasted story is another
example of a child being wrongfully placed into foster care as the result of
false allegations being substantiated by CPS.
>"The worst consequence of undetected false claims is that children who
>get away with lying become more and more disturbed. Nancy Thomas,
>therapeutic foster mom, has spent her adult life helping seriously
>disturbed children. In her book, Dandilion on my pillow, butcher knife
>underneath, she reports on the sad consequences of serial lying. One
>child had come into foster care after accusing his mother of subjecting
>him to a child prostitution ring. His mother and another adult went to
>prison. Another accused person committed suicide. His social worker
>lost her license. But as the story unfolded, Nancy found out that there
>was no child prostitution ring: the child's father had coached the
>child to make these charges, as a way of hurting his ex-wife. Of all
>Nancy's troubled children, this was the one who never really
>recovered."
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2005/0302morse.html
This child ended up being wrongfully placed in foster care and his mother
placed in prison due to false allegations. That he was in foster care to
begin with was an example of CPS mistakenly substantiating a false
allegation. Is it any wonder that the child continues to make false
allegations while in foster care and that those false allegations are
validated by CPS?
How many children do you think are in foster care today due to false
allegations against their parents? Or do they only become false allegations
when they are later made against foster caregivers?
It turns out that CPS trainers dispense their own brand of propaganda, if we
can label the false, misleading information you quote below with such a
mild term.
>When I was at classes with relatives that were applying to foster they
>were told by the instructor that foster parents routinely could not
>spend more than a year in fostering without at least one serious
>allegation of abuse made against them...false allegation...and the
>chances were good it would be "founded" and on their record, and
>putting them on heavier supervision, AT THE VERY LEAST...with a real
>risk of criminal charges, as well as suspension of their license
>and....get this....removal of their own children.
If this were true, there would be over 200,000 reports of child abuse
against foster caregivers each year -- many of them "founded"
(substantiated) as you say. Obviously, such is not the case. I wonder what
meaning the students constructed from the agency instructors comments:
1) That children who end up in foster care make a lot of "false
allegations"? Does that explain how they got into state custody to begin
with?
2) That something happens to dear, precious children that makes them
suddenly become liars when they are in state custody?
3) That serious allegations of child abuse are made against foster
caregivers the first year but the reports never show up in NCANDS data and
the results of the investigations are not reported?
4) That the instructor was just plain wrong?
5) That CPS workers do their investigative work so poorly that children come
into the system because workers wrongfully substantiated false allegations
of abuse and that CPS is still prone to mistakenly substantiate false
allegations against foster caregivers?
>The amount of lying that goes on in this ng is monumental, and YOU lend
>yourself to it, Michael, the contributor.
Since states are not reporting anywhere near the number of allegations
against foster caregivers that 1 per year against each would total, do you
think the instructor was lying? Or are CPS agencies lying by hiding those
reports against foster carers from public record?
>When you've got facts, get back to us. So far you are just babbling
>wild accusations you cannot prove.
The former CPS employee, police, civic leaders, and a host of other
knowledgeable sources have reported to us through the article Michael
posted, Kane. You just didn't like the facts they shared with us.
Here is the entire article:
Area groups calling for DCFS policy changes
Critics question how child welfare deals with minorities and poor
Sunday, October 2, 2005
By ELAINE HOPKINS
of the Journal Star
PEORIA - On a stifling July day, a woman and her father picketed the Peoria
office of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services. Their
sunburned faces dripped with sweat.
The woman's sign read: "DCFS will lie in court to keep your child for
money." Passing cars honked in sympathy.
A black female pedestrian in front of the office commented, "Ain't that the
truth," and kept walking.
On the same day, Crystal Clark and a small group of African-Americans
stopped by the office of Peoria County State's Attorney Kevin Lyons. They
wanted to present a petition to Lyons that they said had hundreds of
signatures and discuss their grievances about the child protection system in
Peoria.
They waited an hour, but no one would take their petition or speak with
them.
Later they mailed the petition to Lyons but never heard from the office,
Clark said.
Clark, 48, an African-American, said the system oppresses poor people and
especially black parents and foster parents. Local officials ignore both
DCFS policies and state laws, she claims.
Since that hot day, Clark's group, African-American Children and Family
Rights Enforcement, and two other groups, all with leaders who have been
involved with the child protection system, continue to meet and protest. The
leaders don't get along, but their complaints about the system are the same.
Grass-roots groups are not alone in their concerns. Bamani Obadele, a
high-profile black minister and Chicago activist who recently left DCFS
after overseeing minority affairs for two years, said the agency has
improved but the system still has problems, especially in the Peoria area.
"It's a class issue. Poor whites and poor blacks don't stand a chance," said
Obadele, who left DCFS to pursue other interests but is now under
investigation by the agency for financial irregularities, the Chicago
Tribune reported Saturday.
"I don't believe the system itself is racist," but most of the cases involve
minorities, he said. "Why is that? Is it that black people love their
children less? I think we need a real discussion about the face of child
welfare."
State Rep. Mary Flowers, a Chicago Democrat, has introduced reform
legislation for the child protection system. Illinois has one of the worst
records in the United States for using family reunification funds to keep
families together, she said.
"A lot of children are separated from their families because their families
are poor," she said.
The statistics show African-American children making up only 25 percent of
the children in Peoria County but 63 percent of the foster children not in
the care of relatives, according to DCFS figures.
In Tazewell County, fewer than 1 percent of children are black, but black
children make up 25 percent of the foster children not in the care of
relatives.
Only 19 percent of all children are from poor families in Peoria County, and
10 percent in Tazewell County. But most of the children and parents caught
up in the child welfare system are poor. Court officials estimate the poor
make up 90 percent of the cases.
Crystal Clark has asked the FBI to investigate civil rights violations in
the Peoria system and recently urged U.S. Rep. Ray LaHood, R-Peoria, to push
them to do it. She's also spoken with a Chicago lawyer about a class-action
lawsuit.
Recently, Clark and her group picketed at the Pekin office of state Sen.
George Shadid and state Rep. Mike Smith. They want Shadid to call a public
hearing with sworn testimony from people upset with the child protection
system.
Shadid was out of town, his aide Peggy Meisinger said, adding she has
presented material to Clark on how the group can set up its own hearing.
Several Pekin residents stopped to talk with the group and expressed
sympathy with its cause.
Clark became involved after her two grandchildren were taken from the home
she shared with her daughter and the children, two years ago.
The children were never harmed, she said, but were taken in retaliation
because she complained about a caseworker with a private agency who entered
her home without knocking and stole videotapes.
The children then were abused in four foster homes, including one that the
city of Peoria found unfit for human habitation, Clark said, offering
documents as proof.
Last year DCFS found that eight foster parents committed abuse in the two
counties. Sixteen children were affected.
Clark's grandchildren then were placed on a farm with white foster parents
in Peoria County, far from other family members, their African-American
culture and their community, Clark said.
DCFS statistics show 17 percent of African-American children were placed in
white foster parent homes in August in Peoria County. Last spring the agency
conducted a campaign to recruit black foster parents but could not supply
any figures on how many were recruited.
Clark said she surrendered the children because police were present. But she
later learned that no court order had been issued or independent
investigation done concerning the removal of her grandchildren.
A week ago Clark and her group met with lst District Councilman Clyde Gulley
to complain about police involvement with DCFS. Gulley said he will look
into the allegations.
Clark has questioned the role of Peoria police in backing up caseworkers who
are removing children from homes and schools. Sometimes, she says, without a
court order or the threat of imminent harm as the law requires. People are
intimidated into surrendering the children because of police presence, she
said.
DCFS statistics indicate the paperwork usually is in place. It reported that
last year all but two cases had the proper paperwork in Peoria County, and
all had the documents in Tazewell County.
The leader of another group, Gerisa Eppinger, an African-American, also
raised the police issue at a recent meeting where two Peoria police officers
were present. Eppinger's group is called Family Does Matter.
People who question surrendering a child are threatened with arrest,
Eppinger said. "The only reason for police to be there is intimidation," she
added.
But the two officers defended the police presence. Peoria police Lt. Philip
Korem said the officers are present as peacekeepers.
His colleague Capt. Mike Scally said "if the DCFS calls and says they're
needed, I don't see that as intimidating. These are situations that can be
volatile."
Flowers said Illinois is seeing the negative fallout from previous years
when too many children were taken from their families and placed in foster
homes, leaving some children angry and traumatized.
When they become adults, "they are incarcerated," she said. "It's a horrific
thing the DCFS has done to destroy families."
Doug
newspaper on the same day as the story discussed in this thread.
Advocates say parents rights are lacking
Sunday, October 2, 2005
By ELAINE HOPKINS
of the Journal Star
PEORIA - Ask the family advocates about the court system that backs up the
Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, and you'll get an
earful.
The system is overloaded, they say. It can take six months to get a court
date. The average case lasts two years.
Due process is sacrificed along with justice, running up other costs in the
system and traumatizing children and families, they say.
"Parents have far fewer rights than criminals," said activist Doris Morgan
of the advocacy group Keeping Families Together. "But what is decided is
your child's future."
Most cases should be finalized within two months instead of two years,
Morgan said, unless there is obvious physical or sexual abuse.
"If you kill somebody, you get better (legal) representation," said Laurie
Yaeger of Keeping Families Together.
County officials don't know what the court part of the local child
protection system costs.
"It would be very difficult to determine," said John Flynn, Peoria County's
court administrator.
The cost of juvenile court services is lumped into other costs, said
Jennifer Zinkel of Peoria County's administrative services office.
Every case involves at least three lawyers, sometimes more, and a judge.
The county has a contract with lawyer Tim Penn to provide public defender
services for all court cases. Penn did not respond to a request for comment.
Five public defenders represent the parents. All are independent contractors
with no benefits. They are paid $3,000 monthly plus $400 to file appeals.
Three other lawyers represent the children.
With heavy caseloads, the lawyers waive time deadlines for their own
convenience, and parents don't even realize it, the advocates say. The cases
drag on.
Flynn said, "some of the delays are attributable to making sure (all)
parties are properly notified."
No one has studied the local system to see whether it could be more
efficient, he added.
DCFS and the courts are sometimes at odds, advocates say.
Latonya Harris' seven children, ages 5 to 14, have been in the system since
1999 because she was accused of spanking a 5-year-old, she said. But the
criminal charge against her was dismissed, she said.
Harris said DCFS wants her children returned, but a judge won't agree. "He
wasn't paying attention" to the case, she said. "When I try to talk to the
judge, he does not respond to me."
The siblings are separated in several foster homes, she said.
Morgan said children in the system for a long time may develop "reactive
detachment syndrome," which means they have lost the ability to bond with
anyone. She told of a boy who spent his childhood in 11 foster homes over
four years.
DCFS paid for his intensive, live-in therapy to recover, before he could go
home to his mother, she said.
Louis Milot, a senior public defender who represents parents in the system,
said, "I don't think enough time and effort has been spent to determine why
people are coming into the system and what can be done to prevent that."
State Rep. Mary Flowers, a Chicago Democrat who spoke at a recent Peoria
meeting of the advocacy group Family Does Matter, said public defenders
should be paid more, and more need to be hired to cut caseloads.
Milot said his job is supposed to be part time, but his caseload of about
150 cases can be overwhelming. He would rather see a cut in caseload than a
raise, he said.
Flowers also would consider legislation to remove immunity from civil
lawsuits for those involved in the system, she said, to promote more checks
and balances and interest private lawyers in taking child protection cases.
"Your child can be taken away (in court) because of hearsay," she said, but
not "your dog or your car."
In Peoria County, a DCFS grant-funded pilot program called Family to Family
aims to cut back on children being removed from their homes by setting up
team meetings before court hearings take place.
Bessie Rush, who operates the program, said it began in 2001 when Peoria
County was second in the state behind Chicago in removing children from
their homes. "They were taking up to 500 children a year," she said.
That's been cut to 153 last year, according to DCFS figures.
Dozens of community volunteers now work with families in the system, she
said to keep children in their homes or reunite them with families.
"It's made a great difference," said Mary Hixenbaugh of Keeping Families
Together. She wants the program expanded to Tazewell County.
But the court system can and does overrule the decisions made at the team
meetings, she said.
Crystal Clark, of the group African American Children and Family Rights
Enforcement, said the system isn't working as planned. "I've got a list of
people who say the (team meetings) were held after their kids were removed,"
she said.
Parents who can't or won't follow intricate rules that are sometimes
unreasonable lose their children permanently, Hixenbaugh said.
She and others in her group tell stories of distraught parents whose
parental rights were being terminated because they didn't show up at a 9
a.m. court hearing, even though the paperwork said the hearing was at 1 p.m.
Or because they missed a required meeting due to serious illness.
Becky Brown with Keeping Families Together said the overall system has
improved somewhat but needs more improvement.
"It's not perfect yet," she said.
Doug
Child welfare costing taxpayers millions
Average cost per child is $14,855
Sunday, October 2, 2005
By ELAINE HOPKINS
of the Journal Star
PEORIA -The child protection system in Peoria and Tazewell counties costs
taxpayers millions each year - the exact number is unknown. The total may be
$25 million yearly, or more, when the cost of every part of the complex
system is included.
According to information from the Illinois Department of Children and Family
Services, based on a Freedom of Information request, the average cost per
year per child in the system is $14,855 to pay agencies and foster parents.
That figure does not include medical care, counseling or court proceedings,
the agency stated.
After a week of requests, DCFS was not able to provide an official to speak
about the agency, saying key leaders were not available.
As of Aug. 5, there were 607 children in nonrelative foster care in Peoria
and Tazewell counties. DCFS did not provide the number of children in foster
care staying with relatives. At the average cost, that's $9 million a year
paid to agencies and foster parents for these children.
Last year, an additional $9.3 million went to families to subsidize the
adoption of children whose parents lost their parental rights in the two
counties.
Six private agencies in 2004 operating in the two counties had contracts
totaling $82 million for all programs they run for DCFS. Some operate
statewide, others only locally.
This money goes to protect children, roughly half of whom are removed from
their homes even though they have not been harmed physically.
DCFS says that of 173 children taken into protective custody last year in
Peoria and Tazewell counties, 53 percent in each county were taken for risk
of harm instead of actual harm.
Family advocates criticize child welfare officials as being too zealous in
some instances, though they believe the system has improved lately.
In 2000, Mary Hixenbaugh of Peoria was a founder of Keeping Families
Together, one of three local family advocacy groups now keeping watch over
DCFS and the court system.
After five years of meetings with DCFS officials, some progress has
occurred, Hixenbaugh said.
"We got rid of caseworkers that were problem-makers, and an investigator who
was sexually harassing clients," she said. A difficult top administrator
also left.
Her analysis of what went wrong with the system focuses on money. Financial
incentives for adoption, approved by Congress in the 1990s, ruined the
system, Hixenbaugh said. "It went haywire."
With money on the table, agencies expanded definitions of abuse and neglect,
she said. "They were snatching kids. The system backlogged."
For example, mothers who were victims of domestic violence lost their
children to the system even though the children were never abused by either
partner. That's still happening, Hixenbaugh said.
The domestic violence issue illustrates the complexities facing those
involved in the child protection system.
Police and others are required to notify child protection authorities of
domestic violence. They reason that mothers who allow their children,
including infants, to witness domestic violence or be near it place them in
danger.
Then some unintended consequences kicked in.
"The word is out," said Jim Ryman, a member of Keeping Families Together.
Women are now afraid to call the police, he said.
"They would rather take the beating to keep the police out of the home,"
Hixenbaugh said.
Martha Herm, executive director of the Center for Prevention of Abuse, said,
"we have anecdotal evidence from people calling the hotline (who say) 'I
don't want to call the police. I'm too afraid of losing my kids.' "
Herm said every situation is complicated, but in general abusers are
unlikely to change without therapy.
"Research shows it gets more severe and the violent parts happen more often
over time," she said.
Judges err on the side of caution, even though they know taking a child away
from parents is traumatic, she said.
"An atmosphere of abuse is not good for children," said a senior public
defender, Louis Milot.
But some women need a long time to realize that they must separate
themselves from an abuser, he said. "What is the best way to encourage a
victim to do that?" he asked.
Doug
statistics that form the basis of lawmakers concerns about CPS practice in
Peoria, Illinois.
By the numbers
Sunday, October 2, 2005
- Estimated annual cost of the child protection system in Peoria and
Tazewell counties: $25 million.
- Paid to families for adoption assistance: $9.3 million.
- Paid to private agencies and foster parents for 607 children in foster
care, at average yearly cost of $14,855: $9 million
- Cost for medical care, counseling, other services: unknown.
- Cost for eight court-appointed lawyers in Peoria County: about $300,000.
- Cost of prosecutors and judges: unknown.
- Number of children taken into protective custody last year by DCFS in
Peoria and Tazewell counties: 173.
- Percentage not harmed but considered at risk for harm, in each county: 53
percent.
- Number of private agencies contracted to work with DCFS last year in both
counties: six.
- Total amount paid to them: $82 million, though some do work in other
counties (also, the agencies provide other services besides foster care).
- Number of complaints DCFS received on these six agencies last year: 114.
- Percent of African-American children in Peoria County: 25 percent.
- Percent of black children in nonrelative foster care in Peoria County in
Aug: 63 percent.
- Percent of African-American children in Tazewell County: 0.5 percent.
- Percent in nonrelative foster care in Peoria County in August: 25 percent.
- Estimated percent of poor families in the child protection system: 90
percent.
Sources: Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, court
officials.
Doug
policy and law. Here is the applicable law.
Sunday, October 2, 2005
Here is the way the child protection system of the Illinois Department of
Children and Family Services and the court system that supports it should
operate, according to Illinois law and family advocates:
1. Child is removed from the home.
2. Within 48 hours, a shelter care hearing must be held before a judge to
determine where the child will be placed.
3. Within 90 days, an adjudication hearing, the trial, should be held. If
the judge finds abuse or neglect, more decisions about what happens to the
child and parents are made. A one-time 30-day extension can be granted.
4. Within 30 more days, a disposition hearing should be held. Advocates say
that unless severe abuse is present, children should be sent home with
services to the parent.
Sources: Illinois Bar Association, Keeping Families Together
kane_...@yahoo.com
Doug wrote:
....
Gosh, Doug, changed your mind?
Parents are NOT routinely caught abusing and killing - DOUG ...
... The program rigorously follows the Homebuilders model (see Issue
Paper 10 ... has not
been a single fatality.[13] In contrast, when Illinois effectively
abandoned ...
alt.support.child-protective-services - Jun 24, 3:27 am by Doug - 15
messages - 3 authors
It won't be long, now
... Most states are not. It is a very, very old model. CHILD ABUSE IS
GOING UP
DESPITE THEM. ... This is clear from the experience in Illinois. ...
alt.support.child-protective-services - May 31, 4:03 am by Doug - 29
messages - 7 authors
Epidemic of Hype: Meth Hysteria Latest Excuse to Remove Children
... Yet Illinois removes children at a rate even lower than Alabama,
and, again ... Erik
Eckholm , "Once Woeful, Alabama Is Model in Child Welfare," The New
York Times ...
alt.support.child-protective-services - Aug 26, 7:23 pm by Doug - 15
messages - 5 authors
Doug, check out your defense of Il as the New Improved Model other
states should be following?
0:->
Doug
> Gosh, Doug, changed your mind?
Hi, Kane,
I do all the time. But certainly not on this issue, as my posts have
demonstrated.
As the series of articles discussed in this thread mention, the number of
children removed from their homes has gone down substantially. While this
is most certainly an improvement -- as I have pointed out -- it is obvious
from the articles that CPS malpractice persist.
Reform is happening and improvements have been made. It won't be long, now.
However, obviously, CPS systemic dysfunction continue to damage families and
injure the very children CPS is mandated to protect.
We can see this reform and partial improvment in many areas. For instance,
concerning educational requirements for CPS caseworkers. Oregon has
improved from not requiring a degree at all to requiring "any" bachelor's
degree for CPS caseworkers. The state has yet to move further to require a
bachelor's degree in something other than, say, art history -- to
investigate families. One would hope that reform would continue in that
state to require candidates for CPS workers to have a bachelor's degree in a
behavioral science field, like psychology or child development. Perhaps
later, the legislature would consider requiring candidates to have a BSW.
kane_...@yahoo.com
Nonsense.
When was this fantasy time Oregon CPS did not require a degree for a
caseworker?
And how do you explain this:
(The highest ranking and highest paid representated (union - non
management) caseworker position)
http://egov.oregon.gov/DHS/jobs/LEHS1002.shtml
"...QUALIFICATIONS
Bachelor's degree in Social Work/Human Services, or related field AND
one year of experience with responsibility for child welfare case
management (i.e. managing a caseload which involved case planning,
placement decisions, child protection issues, or treatment
interventions); OR
Bachelor's degree AND two years of experience with responsibility for
child welfare case management (i.e., managing a caseload which involved
case planning, placement decisions, child protection issues, or
treatment interventions). ..."
And here is the SSS 1 position, the usual caseworker you defame in this
ng.
http://egov.oregon.gov/DHS/jobs/LEHS1001.shtml
"...QUALIFICATIONS
Bachelor's or higher degree in Social Work/Human Services, or related
field; OR
Bachelor's degree in a field not closely related and one year of human
services related experience (i.e., work providing assistance to
individuals and groups with issues such as economically disadvantaged,
employment, abuse and neglect, substance abuse, aging, disabilities,
health, cultural competencies, inadequate housing)..."
Even when NOT requiring a degree in the field, it is required they have
experience working in this field...hence YOU are lying by leaving OUT
pertinent hiring requirements.
This is your history in such matters, Doug. I have challenged you again
and again and I've lost count of the number of times you have turned
out to NOT have the correct or full information, yet persisted in
fometting your bullshit on this newsgroup.
The fact is Oregon has only TWO job openings in DHS as caseworkers at
this writing. That's right TWO, the first one is always an in-house
hire because of the experience required.
How could a state the size of Oregon have only TWO openings? Well,
because as I have said so many times, states are underfunded, and
understaffed. Hell, retirements and the usual attrition of people
moving etc. should leave more than TWO openings at any one time, let
alone all that "workers leaving a corrupt system" you fucking assholes
lie about continuously.
> One would hope that reform would continue in that
> state to require candidates for CPS workers to have a bachelor's degree in a
> behavioral science field, like psychology or child development. Perhaps
> later, the legislature would consider requiring candidates to have a BSW.
Why? They don't get paid enough (Oregon is a notoriously expensive
state to live in....housing alone has skyrocketed in the past five
years to one the highest in the nation...without a rise in wages, in
fact a drop in real wages and extreme unemployment problems).
How are you going to recruit people with higher qualifications if you
don't pay them competitive wages they can live on?
Again you use slimey methods to put forward your argument by
withholding critical information and defrauding the gullible. Yer sick,
Douggie.
Kane
Doug
>When was this fantasy time Oregon CPS did not require a degree for a
>caseworker?
Hi, Kane,
The Child Welfare League of America says that, in Oregon, " The bachelor's
degree requirement for caseworkers is a relatively new requirement."
"Casework Supervisor positions are part of a general management series,
Program Executive C, which does not require a bachelor's degree. However,
casework supervisor positions require a breadth of knowledge of child
welfare practice and casework experience, which is most often accompanied by
a bachelor's degree. Currently nearly all supervisors have either bachelor's
degrees and some have MSW's."
> Even when NOT requiring a degree in the field, it is required they have
> experience working in this field...hence YOU are lying by leaving OUT
> pertinent hiring requirements.
Hi, Kane,
I didn't "leave out" anything. I was discussing reform of CPS agencies, and
used the educational requirement of CPS caseworker candidates as an example
of the evoultion of that reform. In fact, the position in Oregon only
requires a undergraduate degree in ANY field (including art history).
http://tinyurl.com/c28cc
While this is an improvement for Oregon, the requirement is the minimual
required nationwide. For instance, 25 of the 40 states reporting required a
BSW or undergrad degree in a human services field (Alaska, Washington D.C.,
Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska and Nevada require BSW's).
> This is your history in such matters, Doug. I have challenged you again
> and again and I've lost count of the number of times you have turned
> out to NOT have the correct or full information, yet persisted in
> fometting your bullshit on this newsgroup.
Not so. Again and again you have made false claims. My statement that
Oregon requires only a degree in ANY field is, indeed, correct information.
http://tinyurl.com/c28cc When comparing the educational requirements states
have for CPS workers and the reform in this area in Oregon, my statement was
most certainly full information. So, once again, as in the numerous other
times you mention, you offer no challenge.
Nationwide, educational requirements for investigative workers is less than
those required of other CPS caseworkers. 26.2% of the states required only
a bachelor's degree in any field for investigative CPS workers and 24.4%
required a bachelor's in any field for other CPS caseworkers. CPS
caseworker supervisors? 23.8% of the states thought a bachelor's in any
field was enough. On the other hand, 59% of the states required a bachelors
in social work or a human services related field for CPS caseworkers. Only
14.5% required a undergrad degree in social work and less than 3% required a
MSW. http://tinyurl.com/c28cc
> The fact is Oregon has only TWO job openings in DHS as caseworkers at
> this writing. That's right TWO, the first one is always an in-house
> hire because of the experience required.
Actually, in response to Oregon's poor showing in the federal audit, CPS
hired 30 new CPS caseworkers. http://tinyurl.com/ctgab
The Oregon Department of Human Services, Children, Adults and families
sought funds for the federally mandated PIP plan (to improve failures found
by the federal audit) under the state's Rebalance Plan. This allows a state
agency to request permission from an "Emergency Board" (a legislative
committee) to reallocate funds from one program area to another. The
Emergency Board authorized CPS to reallocate funds to create a PIP plan to
correct for the failures of their system pointed out by the federal audit.
Part of that improvement plan was the hiring of 30 new CPS caseworkers.
http://tinyurl.com/ctgab
> How could a state the size of Oregon have only TWO openings? Well,
> because as I have said so many times, states are underfunded, and
> understaffed. Hell, retirements and the usual attrition of people
> moving etc. should leave more than TWO openings at any one time, let
> alone all that "workers leaving a corrupt system" you fucking assholes
> lie about continuously.
Why are you quoting yourself? No one in this newsgroup other than you has
written, "workers leaving a corrupt system."
At any rate, perhaps hiring 30 additional caseworkers over what the state
had before it failed the federal audit made open positions scarce. It would
make sense.
>> One would hope that reform would continue in that
>> state to require candidates for CPS workers to have a bachelor's degree
>> in a
>> behavioral science field, like psychology or child development. Perhaps
>> later, the legislature would consider requiring candidates to have a BSW.
>
> Why? They don't get paid enough (Oregon is a notoriously expensive
> state to live in....housing alone has skyrocketed in the past five
> years to one the highest in the nation...without a rise in wages, in
> fact a drop in real wages and extreme unemployment problems).
Oregon's minimum starting salary for a CPS worker is $33,480.00 a year, well
above the national median of $28,681. CPS Workers in 12 states make more
than Oregon's minimum. Oregon's maximum salary for a CPS caseworker is
$46,500. http://tinyurl.com/c28cc
> How are you going to recruit people with higher qualifications if you
> don't pay them competitive wages they can live on?
Their wages are competitive to the rest of the nation. Currently, the
agency may find it easy to recuit for its two positions.
The reform movement will likely cause Oregon to continue to raise its
educational requirements just as the federal audit spurred the state to hire
more workers to improve those services where they failed to meet minimum
standards.
> Again you use slimey methods to put forward your argument by
> withholding critical information and defrauding the gullible. Yer sick,
> Douggie.
The data comes from the professional lobbying group for CPS contractors, the
Child Welfare League of America (CWLA). Neither it or I witheld critical
information.
The educational requirement for CPS caseworkers in Oregon is, indeed, a
bachelor's degree in ANY field.
kane_...@yahoo.com
Doug wrote:
> >Nonsense.
>
> >When was this fantasy time Oregon CPS did not require a degree for a
> >caseworker?
>
> Hi, Kane,
>
> The Child Welfare League of America says that, in Oregon, " The bachelor's
> degree requirement for caseworkers is a relatively new requirement."
They are wrong. In 1980, when I did my practicum and a year long work
study as a student, they would have hired me fulltime IF I had had a
bachelor's degree. I read the recruiting bulletin, and it plainly said,
BA or BS in a realated field, or BA or BS in a not directly related
field (and they weren't talking waste water management degree...I
asked) and experience in the field.
> "Casework Supervisor positions are part of a general management series,
> Program Executive C, which does not require a bachelor's degree.
Yes, they are NOT represented employees as the Oregon union demands
that workers be hired with enough training and experience, and can push
that, but cannot for unrepresented hires.....supervisors, MANAGERS AND
ABOVE.
Why would the union make such demands at contract time? Because they do
NOT want to represent people that cannot do the job.
> However,
> casework supervisor positions require a breadth of knowledge of child
> welfare practice and casework experience, which is most often accompanied by
> a bachelor's degree. Currently nearly all supervisors have either bachelor's
> degrees and some have MSW's."
Actually truth be told the proportion of Oregon cps supervisor
positions that have MSWs is very high, or a master's in a related field
and a great deal of experience.
>
> > Even when NOT requiring a degree in the field, it is required they have
> > experience working in this field...hence YOU are lying by leaving OUT
> > pertinent hiring requirements.
>
> Hi, Kane,
>
> I didn't "leave out" anything.
Where did your original comment include a bachelor's AND experience in
the field or a related field?
> I was discussing reform of CPS agencies, and
> used the educational requirement of CPS caseworker candidates as an example
> of the evoultion of that reform.
No such "evoultion" [sic] has taken place. At least not since 1980 when
my knowledge of hiring in Oregon began. The requirements then were the
same as now, and as quoted in your source above. THEY simply do NOT
know what those were in 1980, obviously. I doubt once could research
that without interviewing someone that was around then to remember what
was and wasn't the case.
> In fact, the position in Oregon only
> requires a undergraduate degree in ANY field (including art history).
> http://tinyurl.com/c28cc
Only if one has experience in a related field. Something you made a
point to keep out...and MORE experience if the degree is unrelated.
> While this is an improvement for Oregon, the requirement is the minimual
> required nationwide.
And you know this "improvement" (that conditions were different at some
past date in the reasonable past) how?
> For instance, 25 of the 40 states reporting required a
> BSW or undergrad degree in a human services field (Alaska, Washington D.C.,
> Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska and Nevada require BSW's).
This all sounds rather good to me.
And in those states NOT requiring those human services field degrees,
how much experience do they require and do they require a bachelors of
some kind to show that the worker at least can produce to the level
required of a person awarded a bachelor's?
> > This is your history in such matters, Doug. I have challenged you again
> > and again and I've lost count of the number of times you have turned
> > out to NOT have the correct or full information, yet persisted in
> > fometting your bullshit on this newsgroup.
>
> Not so.
So.
> Again and again you have made false claims.
No, it is NOT a false claim that you leave out criticial information.
You have done this repeatedly over the years.
> My statement that
> Oregon requires only a degree in ANY field is, indeed, correct information.
And you leave out the critical information that the applicant must have
experience in the field or a related field, and moreso than a person
with a bachelor's in a related field.
> http://tinyurl.com/c28cc When comparing the educational requirements states
> have for CPS workers and the reform in this area in Oregon, my statement was
> most certainly full information. So, once again, as in the numerous other
> times you mention, you offer no challenge.
YOu did NOT mention the experience requirement.
> Nationwide, educational requirements for investigative workers is less than
> those required of other CPS caseworkers. 26.2% of the states required only
> a bachelor's degree in any field for investigative CPS workers and 24.4%
> required a bachelor's in any field for other CPS caseworkers.
R R R ...from you, the one that once claimed there was no such thing as
separate investigative workers and that they all were ongoing workers
with ongoing caseloads without specialization as investigators. R R R
RR Brilliant.
You miss the illogic of your statement. And a few here that aren't
critical thinkers will miss it too.
YOu cannot use such an inclusive statement or descriptor as
"Nationwide" then follow with proof that shows it is in fact NOT
nationwide, such as 26.2%...that alone shows how crapped up your
thinking is. You are so accustomed to propaganda production your
thinking now is formed by the propaganda instead of logic and facts in
full.
> CPS
> caseworker supervisors? 23.8% of the states thought a bachelor's in any
> field was enough. On the other hand, 59% of the states required a bachelors
> in social work or a human services related field for CPS caseworkers. Only
> 14.5% required a undergrad degree in social work and less than 3% required a
> MSW. http://tinyurl.com/c28cc
You've never answered, except to deny, my question on how the states
are to attract people with higher levels of education with the low pay
they offer.
> > The fact is Oregon has only TWO job openings in DHS as caseworkers at
> > this writing. That's right TWO, the first one is always an in-house
> > hire because of the experience required.
>
> Actually, in response to Oregon's poor showing in the federal audit, CPS
> hired 30 new CPS caseworkers. http://tinyurl.com/ctgab
A one time event proves WHAT? Obviously I am talking about currently.
CPS Oregon would have been happy to hire more IF THE LEGISLATURE and
NON CPS administrators who control hiring HAD ALLOWED IT. They did so
once a reason could be found.
That's now those things work...and provide fodder for liars such as
you.
> The Oregon Department of Human Services, Children, Adults and families
> sought funds for the federally mandated PIP plan (to improve failures found
> by the federal audit) under the state's Rebalance Plan. This allows a state
> agency to request permission from an "Emergency Board" (a legislative
> committee) to reallocate funds from one program area to another. The
> Emergency Board authorized CPS to reallocate funds to create a PIP plan to
> correct for the failures of their system pointed out by the federal audit.
> Part of that improvement plan was the hiring of 30 new CPS caseworkers.
> http://tinyurl.com/ctgab
There is ONE tiny fault in your reasoning. CAF is NOT CPS in Oregon.
SOSCF and CAF are two distinct and separate entities.
In other words a NONRELATED agency was used, and is regularly used in
Oregon, to screen what CPS gets for funding.
They are both under DHS but they are NOT the same departments. Not in
the least. One is full of employees and administrators, the other full
of APPOINTEES THAT DO THE GOVERNOR'S AND LEGISLATOR'S BIDDING. Guess
which SOSCF is not.
> > How could a state the size of Oregon have only TWO openings? Well,
> > because as I have said so many times, states are underfunded, and
> > understaffed. Hell, retirements and the usual attrition of people
> > moving etc. should leave more than TWO openings at any one time, let
> > alone all that "workers leaving a corrupt system" you fucking assholes
> > lie about continuously.
>
> Why are you quoting yourself? No one in this newsgroup other than you has
> written, "workers leaving a corrupt system."
Oh brother. You are such a liar.
Are you going to try and convince ANY reader that has been around this
ng as long or longer than I that neither you nor anyone else that is
anti cps have not claimed that caseworker turnover...leaving...was
because they could not deal with the corruption in the system?
Come ON Douggie boy. Even your buddies know better than that.
> At any rate, perhaps hiring 30 additional caseworkers over what the state
> had before it failed the federal audit made open positions scarce. It would
> make sense.
There were NO open positions prior to that event, Doug, and that WAS my
point. And there are none NOW. Just a cross hire.
In fact, routinely when positions open they are filled in Oregon by
STATE EMPLOYEES ON A WAITING LIST TO MOVE ACROSS FROM ONE RELATED FIELD
TO ANOTHER.
Hiring from outside is extremely rare. And that's with a workforce of
thousands in Oregon cps.
> >> One would hope that reform would continue in that
> >> state to require candidates for CPS workers to have a bachelor's degree
> >> in a
> >> behavioral science field, like psychology or child development. Perhaps
> >> later, the legislature would consider requiring candidates to have a BSW.
> >
> > Why? They don't get paid enough (Oregon is a notoriously expensive
> > state to live in....housing alone has skyrocketed in the past five
> > years to one the highest in the nation...without a rise in wages, in
> > fact a drop in real wages and extreme unemployment problems).
>
> Oregon's minimum starting salary for a CPS worker is $33,480.00 a year, well
> above the national median of $28,681.
"median" salary is not an indicator of real worth based on cost of
living. Try again. Where it's $28k likely the cost of living is very
much lower.
Oregon's cost of living is well above the national median, Doug. You
are, as usual, avoiding reality and failing to base your conclusions
and claims on ALL the evidence related.
> CPS Workers in 12 states make more
> than Oregon's minimum. Oregon's maximum salary for a CPS caseworker is
> $46,500. http://tinyurl.com/c28cc
And that is reached in about 6 years as I recall, and never again,
other than a tiny union negotiated (which means it can drop to nothing
at bargaining time) cost of living allowance, they never get a raise
again. No merit raises, no raises based on experience and skill.
Oregon has very high personal taxes on property, for instance. And it's
cost of living is high. All coastal states tend to be higher. Salaries
may or often may not follow the COL.
Oregon does not.
http://dcs.state.or.us/oregon_admin_rules/econw_final_report.pdf
Take a look at the chart following, "Table 5: Cost of Living Indices,
Various Oregon Jurisdictions"
In 2002 some areas of Oregon had average home prices of the LOWEST
being nearly 200k, and the highest 296k. And Oregon has gone on a
housing cost increase based on speculation by people from other states
mostly, to huge increases in those numbers. What wold for those prices
in 2002 are now going for half a million and better.
> > How are you going to recruit people with higher qualifications if you
> > don't pay them competitive wages they can live on?
>
> Their wages are competitive to the rest of the nation. Currently, the
> agency may find it easy to recuit for its two positions.
No, there wages are NOT competative with the rest of the nation and
that in itself is one MORE of your sleazy attempts. What makes you or
anyone think that caseworker wages are competative with OTHER
professions wages across the country? Plumbers do better.
> The reform movement will likely cause Oregon to continue to raise its
> educational requirements just as the federal audit spurred the state to hire
> more workers to improve those services where they failed to meet minimum
> standards.
As long as the wages offered raise I have, as you know, no complaint
with higher requirements. The federal audit didn't "spur" it allowed
for what CPS admins KNEW they needed and could not get until an outside
source showed they needed it........MONEY TO HIRE AND TRAIN.
> > Again you use slimey methods to put forward your argument by
> > withholding critical information and defrauding the gullible. Yer sick,
> > Douggie.
>
> The data comes from the professional lobbying group for CPS contractors, the
> Child Welfare League of America (CWLA). Neither it or I witheld critical
> information.
Bullshit. YOU have left out critical information in your
arguments...your lies I should say.
> The educational requirement for CPS caseworkers in Oregon is, indeed, a
> bachelor's degree in ANY field.
And commenserate experience in a related field. More than if they have
a related degree.
Under NO circumstances are hiring requirements less than that for
caseworker professional positions. I've looked INTO this when relatives
have had problems with a worker...and never found a single worker
lacking those qualifications.
And I've read the hiring requirements. You are lying, as you always
seem to turn to when you wish to propagandize.
Here's one for you, and all those that say cps workers are immune and
that foster parents can get away with anything without consequences.
This is both a WORKER AND FOSTER PARENT.
I believe I knew the person..though she isn't named.
http://www.erb.state.or.us/orders/AR3403.htm
Read it and find once again how you shitheels lie lie lie.
No, the requirements for positions are NOT in line with salaries
offered. The jobs themselves are monsterously complicated. The levels
of responsibility extremely high. The risks to health and safety nearly
equal to LE work, and LE's retire 10 years earlier with the same or
better benefits.
Yer full of bullshit, as usual.
You should be ashamed of yourself, but of course you are not.
0:->
Doug
>> The Child Welfare League of America says that, in Oregon, " The
>> bachelor's
>> degree requirement for caseworkers is a relatively new requirement."
>
> They are wrong. In 1980, when I did my practicum and a year long work
> study as a student, they would have hired me fulltime IF I had had a
> bachelor's degree. I read the recruiting bulletin, and it plainly said,
> BA or BS in a realated field, or BA or BS in a not directly related
> field (and they weren't talking waste water management degree...I
> asked) and experience in the field.
Hi, Kane,
The CWLA clearly reports in 2002 that the bachelor's degree (in any field)
requirement is a relatively new requirement in Oregon. CWLA keeps updated
data on all the states. Naturally, I believe CWLA's explanation over your
opinion of what you may have encountered 25 years ago.
>> "Casework Supervisor positions are part of a general management series,
>> Program Executive C, which does not require a bachelor's degree.
>
> Yes, they are NOT represented employees as the Oregon union demands
> that workers be hired with enough training and experience, and can push
> that, but cannot for unrepresented hires.....supervisors, MANAGERS AND
> ABOVE.
The fact remains that a family in Oregon has the distinct chance of being
investigated by a caseworker with a degree in art history and working for a
supervisor who has NO DEGREE AT ALL.
(Hope that didn't kill your rabbit.)
"Currently nearly all supervisors have either bachelor's
degrees and some have MSW's."
>
> Actually truth be told the proportion of Oregon cps supervisor
> positions that have MSWs is very high, or a master's in a related field
> and a great deal of experience.
The truth be known, the CWLA says "Currently nearly all supervisors have
either bachelor's degrees and some have MSW's."
> No such "evoultion" [sic] has taken place. At least not since 1980 when
> my knowledge of hiring in Oregon began. The requirements then were the
> same as now, and as quoted in your source above. THEY simply do NOT
> know what those were in 1980, obviously. I doubt once could research
> that without interviewing someone that was around then to remember what
> was and wasn't the case.
It has taken place, according the the CWLA. It reported that the
requirement of a bachelor's degree (in any field) for a CPS caseworker is a
relatively new requirement. CPS supervisors do not need a degree at all.
>> While this is an improvement for Oregon, the requirement is the minimual
>> required nationwide.
>
> And you know this "improvement" (that conditions were different at some
> past date in the reasonable past) how?
I documented it in the post with a link to the CWLA data base. I know this
improvement from requiring no degree for CPS worker to requiring a
bachelor's degree in any field through the CWLA report.
>> For instance, 25 of the 40 states reporting required a
>> BSW or undergrad degree in a human services field (Alaska, Washington
>> D.C.,
>> Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska and Nevada require BSW's).
>
> This all sounds rather good to me.
Yes. It is good news concerning the 25 states who require a bachelor's in
human services related fields. It is NOT good news for the states, such as
Oregon, who require less. In Oregon's case, a bachelor's in ANY field. Art
history, english, philosphy, basket weaving, etc.
> And in those states NOT requiring those human services field degrees,
> how much experience do they require and do they require a bachelors of
> some kind to show that the worker at least can produce to the level
> required of a person awarded a bachelor's?
I was comparing academic qualifications required. Nothing else. You seem to
be the one concerned about how much "experience" grads of art history get in
working in the field afterwards. If that remains your concern, then you may
want to research what these states require in the line of experience...more
importantly, just HOW the art history major gets experience working with
real people.
>> My statement that
>> Oregon requires only a degree in ANY field is, indeed, correct
>> information.
>
> And you leave out the critical information that the applicant must have
> experience in the field or a related field, and moreso than a person
> with a bachelor's in a related field.
I didn't leave out anything. I compared levels of education required by the
various states for CPS workers. Types of degrees. Etc.
YOU interject another variable and claim that it is "critical" information.
First, it is not "critical". Second, it is not part of the comparison about
education requirements.
> YOu cannot use such an inclusive statement or descriptor as
> "Nationwide" then follow with proof that shows it is in fact NOT
> nationwide, such as 26.2%...that alone shows how crapped up your
> thinking is. You are so accustomed to propaganda production your
> thinking now is formed by the propaganda instead of logic and facts in
> full.
Sure I can. 26.2% of the states nationwide required a degree in ANY field
for investigative work. Nothing wrong with my thinking. Or that of the
CWLA, which reported the percentages...nationwide, of course.
> You've never answered, except to deny, my question on how the states
> are to attract people with higher levels of education with the low pay
> they offer.
States who require CPS candidates to have a BSW degree pay less that what
Oregon pays those with bachelor's degrees in any field.
>> Why are you quoting yourself? No one in this newsgroup other than you
>> has
>> written, "workers leaving a corrupt system."
>
> Oh brother. You are such a liar.
>
> Are you going to try and convince ANY reader that has been around this
> ng as long or longer than I that neither you nor anyone else that is
> anti cps have not claimed that caseworker turnover...leaving...was
> because they could not deal with the corruption in the system?
You put quotes around the statement. No poster in this newsgroup other than
yourself made the statement you quote exactly.
At any rate, Oregon ranks among the lowest in the educational requirements
for CPS caseworkers and CPS supervisors. A bachelor's degree in ANY field
is sufficient for a caseworker in that state and Oregon CPS supervisors are
not required to have a degree of any kind.
kane_...@yahoo.com
Michael© wrote:
> "Doug" <doug...@charter.net> Scribbled the following in
> alt.support.child-protective-services, on Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:24:55 GMT:
>
> [snip]
>
> >>
> >> Yes, they are NOT represented employees as the Oregon union demands
> >> that workers be hired with enough training and experience, and can
> >> push that, but cannot for unrepresented hires.....supervisors,
> >> MANAGERS AND ABOVE.
> >
> > The fact remains that a family in Oregon has the distinct chance of
> > being investigated by a caseworker with a degree in art history and
> > working for a supervisor who has NO DEGREE AT ALL.
> >
> > (Hope that didn't kill your rabbit.)
I don't keep rabbits.
>
>
> Classic. Absolutely classic. LOL.
Classic twisting and dodging.
> You're truthful, eloquent and have the tolerance of a rock in dealing
> with Kane. You're to be applauded. This group benefits from you.
He is a liar and propagandist that is highly invested in trying to
maintain a very shaky credibility. You could take lessons.
> I will bow out now so Kane can tell everyone how I'm doing something
> with your ass, or some other body part.
You mean you really are kissing ass? I wouldnt' have thought of that.
Yer a coward and running because you pretend Doug can handle me. He
can't. Not with honest people reading.
He lied by omission of supporting material that would negate his claim.
You've tried it, but you are an amateur, corrections officer, to his
long practiced methods of decept.
>
> [snip]
>
>
> --
> Michael Oobalewee
>
> Kane Kwik Facts:
> Out of the last 5,089 articles Kane has authored in A.S.C-P-S., 1,495
> contain the phrase "fuck". Such a diplomatic individual!
My you seem invested. Could it be you are sore at being uncovered as a
lying asshole yourself?
And "fuck" is not a phrase. And you don't say if there are repeats,
which is enevitable unless you carefully counted each article to
determine it was not duplicated by attribution.
Hence, you are a liar.
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