For some reason the NCADRC website has been difficult to find.
This is an organization that has many years of experience behind it.
Visit their site OR give them a call.
I have purchased (copy fees only) from NCADRC numerous psychological and psychiatric treatises and studies that have helped MANY people over the years. Get the current list and have yourself some UNBELIEVABLE and EYE-OPENING reading!
You have probably seen Kim Hart from NCADRC on TV at one time or another, she is truly a great person.
If Montel is back on the air on Monday 9-17 you can see her there.
We are a non-profit organization that deals with issues involving false allegations of child abuse. We are staffed entirely by volunteers who, over the past ten years, have collected a library of information, reviewed thousands of criminal and civil cases, and worked with leading professionals from the legal, psychological/psychiatric, and medical fields. We have been involved, in varying degrees, with the lawyer in hundreds of trials throughout this country and others. From this perspective, we have seen which approaches and strategies work and which ones do not, and we have achieved insight into what issues need to be successfully addressed in order to prevail at trial.
Want To Learn More About Us Or About Defending False Allegations Of Child Abuse?
Read our Mission Statement Learn about or register to attend our next Conference on Child Abuse Allegations Learn about our "Survival Manual for the Falsely Accused" Learn how to aggressively defend against allegations of Munchausen's Syndrone by Proxy Review our History If you are an Attorney, learn about two of our publications: "Deposition Questions for Mental Health Professionals Regarding Sexual Abuse" "Defending Child Abuse Allegations Motion Book" with CD-ROM Obtain videos of presentations by various professionals at past international conferences Request a Referral Email your Legislators Make a tax deductable donation to NCADRC Take our Survey
If you've been falsely accused of child abuse, call us!
dsull...@att.net (dan) writes: >Hello People, >For some reason the NCADRC website has been difficult to find.
The word I got through my wife from Kim is that they lost the person taking care of the WWW site. It was pretty badly broken by the time it disappeared. I replaced our link with http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme/law/ncadrc.html to keep some trace of them around on the WWW. Paula has been to their last two annual conferences.
Okay. How come? -- "When we allow fundamental freedoms to be sacrificed in the name of real or perceived emergency, we invariably regret it. -- Thurgood Marshall Ric Werme | we...@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete
> >For some reason the NCADRC website has been difficult to find.
> The word I got through my wife from Kim is that they lost the person > taking care of the WWW site. It was pretty badly broken by the time it > disappeared. > I replaced our link with http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme/law/ncadrc.html > to keep some trace of them around on the WWW. Paula has been to their > last two annual conferences.
> Cuyahoga County seems to be outrageous. CPS there seems intent on > criminalizing parents, rather than helping them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RONALD BROWDER" <BRO...@ODJFS.STATE.OH.US>
Dear Ms. Little, this is a follow-up to my previous e-mail. I have been informed that our Director, Tom Hayes, would like to talk to you regarding some of the issues you have raised in your website. You may reach him by calling Mrs. Barbara Boyd, Executive Assistant at 614-752-6238. Thank you.
Ronald R. Browder, Chief Bureau of Adoption and Kinship Ohio Dept. of Job and Family Services 614-466-9274 614-728-6726 (Fax)
What should I say to this joker if I call him? I'm not real big on talking to government people. You want to do the honors?
Destroycps! Lots of state governments use email address systems like this: [first five letters of the last name][first letter of first name]@[initials of the state department].[two letter state abbreviation].US
Other state governments use similar systems. Screen names are taboo. If you can get any state worker’s e-address, from the pattern, you can figure out anyone else’s address.
In Missouri, for example the last part would be @dssdfs.state.mo.us (dssdfs means Department of Social Services Division of Family Services), but they don’t use the same system Ohio uses for the first part of the e-address.
Ron's a Moron forwards ...
>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM >Subject: Re: Cuyahoga County DCFS >Dear Ms. Little, this is a follow-up to my previous e-mail. I have been >informed that our Director, Tom Hayes, would like to talk to you regarding >some of the issues you have raised in your website. You may reach him by >calling Mrs. Barbara Boyd, Executive Assistant at 614-752-6238. Thank you. >Ronald R. Browder, Chief >Bureau of Adoption and Kinship >Ohio Dept. of Job and Family Services >614-466-9274 >614-728-6726 (Fax)
Ron's a Moron says ...
>What should I say to this joker if I call him? I'm not real big on talking >to government people. You want to do the honors?
Destroycps! Since you don’t know what he wants to talk about, you have to play it by ear.
What was the nature of Browder’s previous email?
What can a director do?
I can call him if you want, but what should I try to accomplish?
Tape record it for sure! I first thought you should write them and ask them to correspond in writing, but I'll bet some more revealing comments would be made verbally. Transcribe it.
Ask them what their stats are on how many "founded" assessments are reversed later, and where stats are.
"Greg Hanson" <gree...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:AEhp7.24834$P8.7366805@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>... > Tape record it for sure! > I first thought you should write them and ask them to > correspond in writing, but I'll bet some more revealing > comments would be made verbally. Transcribe it.
> Ask them what their stats are on how many "founded" > assessments are reversed later, and where stats are.
Let them do all the talking, anything they ask you about that you don't feel comfortable answering right away tell him you will respond at a later time. This can be a good thing if you can go into the discussion with an open mind. You evidently have had SOME effect! Good for you. Your focus should be on, "We are trying to correct an error," NOT on tearing this guy a new orifice.
"Ask them what their stats are on how many "founded" assessments are reversed later, and where stats are." Very nice! BE nice.
If you can go through this without "going nuts" you have started a dialog that many people have tried and failed to get. Keep the dialog going!! Arrange for future conversations!
> I can call him if you want, but what should I try to accomplish?
I sure wish you would. I'm just not good about talking on the phone. My powers of persuasion diminish without the ability to edit. Reminds me of a letter I got from Brian Christine over the weekend, you know he's real religious and all. He was talking about his struggles and he said, "...I gave the SCF some warnings and commands, much like Moses to Pharoah." And I busted out laughing when I read that, picturing it. But that's how I'd end up being if I got on the phone with this whatever-his-name-is. I'd end up lapsing into prophesy.
>but what should I try to accomplish?
I think you should make him aware of some of the cases we've heard about, and try to accomplish what Greg said, tape record it and ask them what their stats are and how many "founded"assessments are eventually overturned.
Here's some of the complaints:
Our friend Eddie's adolescent stepdaughter made allegations of verbal abuse, and they removed the couple's three year old pending the "investigation" (three months, I think, but will find out). The story is here on the newsgroup, I'll dig it up for you if you need it.
Then there's Bonnie "They took my son,without even investagating me, or coming up with a case plan, my son now lives in hell, he is subject to sleep on a couch where he is at now. I was falsely accused of abuse, my son is 15 years old,6'2'', and weights 210. I want my son back home where he belongs, and has his own room, and bed. My son is very well loved at home, more than he is in foster care. This all started when I got out of a abusive marriage, they just look down on single mothers...now the courts GAL does not like me at all, he is the one that can make up so many lies, the one about a messy house, OMG, my house is always cleaned" Anyway, this lady wrote that everything was going to be fine, she got a good lawyer and was supposed to bring her son home the next day. Then she wrote the next day and said the GAL didn't show up in court or even call, so they had to continue it.
Then there's Terry. They took her kids after her husband was violent with her after 3 years of monitoring, which she says drove him to it. "The commented on how smart all my children were but yet because I cried for them they deemed me emotionally unstable.
Then there's Nancy from here in the newsgroup who tells us that they cancelled visitations, and then told her daughter that she didn't show and didn't want to see the girl anymore.
Don't forget the ones that have made the papers, like the mildly retarded girl who threw some kind of a fit during a DCFS visit, so they took her away, and all she did was cry and beg to go home, day and night, but in spite of the fact that there were no allegations of abuse they refused to return her, and instead shifted her between foster homes and institutions, putting her on 24 different medications. Finally they moved her to Texas and her family is suing. Must read if you haven't http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/story.ss... standard.xsl?/base/cuyahoga/9979542141149137.xml
leighanimate wrote: > Here's some of the complaints:
> Our friend Eddie's adolescent stepdaughter made allegations of verbal abuse, > and they removed the couple's three year old pending the "investigation" > (three months, I think, but will find out). The story is here on the > newsgroup, I'll dig it up for you if you need it.
They REMOVED solely for VERBAL ABUSE?
I would love to see how they square that with the LAW which specifically states that the best interests of the child is PRESUMED to be WITH THE PARENTS unless there is specific and substantive proof that the child would be at significant risk of severe abuse and great or mortal harm if left in the custody of the parents!
What? The kid stole something and they rightly called him a thief? I have seen nutballs for Gestapo CPS call that 'verbal abuse'. You cannot even tell a child they did anything wrong if they murdered a hundred people... that would be 'verbal abuse'!
>RETCH!< > Then there's Bonnie > "They took my son,without even investagating me, or coming up with a case > plan, my son now lives in hell, he is subject to sleep on a couch where he > is at now. I was falsely accused of abuse, my son is 15 years old,6'2'', and > weights 210. I want my son back home where he belongs, and has his own > room, and bed. My son is very well loved at home, more than he is in foster > care. This all started when I got out of a abusive marriage, they just look > down on single mothers...now the courts GAL does not like me at all, he is > the one that can make up so many lies, the one about a messy house, OMG, my > house is always cleaned" > Anyway, this lady wrote that everything was going to be fine, she got a good > lawyer and was supposed to bring her son home the next day. Then she wrote > the next day and said the GAL didn't show up in court or even call, so they > had to continue it.
And if SHE had not shown up all the rulings would have been against her. Why is it that it does not work the other way around, Hmmmmm?
> Then there's Terry. They took her kids after her husband was violent with > her after 3 years of monitoring, which she says drove him to it. > "The commented on how smart all my children were but yet because I cried for > them they deemed me emotionally unstable.
Yeah, powers preserve us from people who cry! Apparently Gestapo CPS goosesteppers don't, other than crocodile tears.
> Then there's Nancy from here in the newsgroup who tells us that they > cancelled visitations, and then told her daughter that she didn't show and > didn't want to see the girl anymore.
A very typical story, it happens a great deal. Basically it is a form of PAS used by kidnapper fosters who want to adopt the kid or at least keep their monthly stipend coming in to undermine reunification.
The brainwashing techniques used on kids in foster care are many and varied.
> Don't forget the ones that have made the papers, like the mildly retarded > girl who threw some kind of a fit during a DCFS visit, so they took her > away, and all she did was cry and beg to go home, day and night, but in > spite of the fact that there were no allegations of abuse they refused to > return her, and instead shifted her between foster homes and institutions, > putting her on 24 different medications. Finally they moved her to Texas > and her family is suing.
As rightly they SHOULD!
These heinous kidnappers must be stopped, whatever it takes.
Don't hold your breath waiting for Delusional Dan to present any specifics... he never has and likely nevr will.. because so long as he is just vague in his claims he thinks he can just claim anyone who does not succeed just 'gave up' or 'didn't do it right' etc.... if he presents specifics then people who try and still are unable to succeed can point to his instructions and state he was WRONG.
His desperately fragile yet grossly overinflated ego clearly could not handle that.
>> I can call [Director Tom Hayes] if you want, but what should I try to accomplish?
leighanimate says...
>I sure wish you would. I'm just not good about talking on the phone.
Destroycps! I spoke with Barbara Boyd his Executive Assistant at 614-752-6238. She wanted a phone # and a mailing address, so I gave her mine. She also wanted specific issues, caseworker names, and the names of the aggrieved (my word not hers) parties.
She was aware of your site http://www.donttakeourkids.com but she didn’t understand what I meant when I said, “Click on view the guest book.”
I could have said, “My issue is simple: I want everybody in the children’s services part of ODFFS http://www.state.oh.us/odjfs/index.stm to die,” but that might have closed off further communications.
She said Tome Hayes may call me back.
I’m still not sure what I should try to accomplish. I’ve talked to people like Tom before. They know the wrong what they’re doing, and they’re not about to change things because of a request. The only real way to move people like directors of CPS organizations is to somehow make them see what they will gain or lose.
> Destroycps! > >> I can call [Director Tom Hayes] if you want, but what should I try to accomplish?
> leighanimate says... > >I sure wish you would. I'm just not good about talking on the phone.
> Destroycps! > I spoke with Barbara Boyd his Executive Assistant at 614-752-6238. She wanted a > phone # and a mailing address, so I gave her mine. She also wanted specific > issues, caseworker names, and the names of the aggrieved (my word not hers) > parties.
> She was aware of your site > http://www.donttakeourkids.com > but she didn't understand what I meant when I said, "Click on view the guest > book."
> I could have said, "My issue is simple: I want everybody in the children's > services part of ODFFS > http://www.state.oh.us/odjfs/index.stm > to die," but that might have closed off further communications.
> She said Tome Hayes may call me back.
> I'm still not sure what I should try to accomplish. I've talked to people like > Tom before. They know the wrong what they're doing, and they're not about to > change things because of a request. The only real way to move people like > directors of CPS organizations is to somehow make them see what they will gain > or lose.
Yes Indeed,Cuyahoga County DCFS removed our 3 yr. old daughter and placed her with her paternal grandparents for 30 days.The teenage stepdaughter now 14 yrs. old was made to stay with the neighbor who called DCFS because she was "concerned" for the teen after she went crying to the neighbor ,due to being upset over getting yelled at for mistreating the younger sibling and not being allowed to spend the night with the neighbor's daughter at the neighbor's home.The social worker,Christine Kelly,concluded that the teen was a victim of verbal and emotional abuse and recommended Family Preservation Counseling.At a Staffing meeting the children were ordered removed from our home and placed in protective custody pending the start of Family Preservation.The incident took place in early July of this year and the children were allowed to return home on August 13th,we are still undergoing Family Preservation .
What really hurts me and angers me is that our 3 yr.old appears to be traumatized by all of this .It's a shame that she has the words "social worker' and "foster home" in her vocabulary.The poor little girl is now terrified to go to her grandparent's house.She starts crying and says "I don't want to go to Grandma's house because the social worker won't let me come home."She also was playing with her toy telephone the other day and told me "Daddy ,the social worker is on the phone,tell her don't take me away to a foster home."It really breaks my heart to see what DCFS has done to this innocent child.
As for Nancy,who posted in the group about her daughter in foster care ,I know firsthand of what she is going through because I am Nancy's fiancee'.Nancy had her oldest daughter Alicia (now 17), and her sister Christie(now 14) removed from her custody in '92 as a result of allegations that were made by her ex husband during a custody battle over the kids shortly after they were divorced.The children were placed in temporary custody of their maternal grandmother .while the girls were in the custody of the maternal grandmother ,during the summer of 1993, Alicia went to spend some time with Nancy's sister.From what I have been told Nancy's sister caught the caught Alicia squirting toothpaste all over the bathroom and yelled her.Alicia threw a violent temper tantrum and put her arm through a window ,when Alicia was taken to the hospital for stitches DCFS placed her in foster care.Alicia was diagnosed with having several disorders such as Bi-Polar Disorder,ADHD,Attachment Disorder,etc. DCFS states that Alicia,needs to be in a "therapeautic environment" where her problems can be treated.In a recent phone conversation,Alicia told Christie that she wants nothing to do with her mom or dad and feels that they have abandoned her.The social worker and foster parents told Alicia that her parents no longer love her and don't want anything to do with her.She also told Christie that she was upset that her mother and father failed to show up for several visits.
The truth is that Nancy never abandoned Alicia.She was placed in foster care due to her "special needs". Nancy fully completed the court ordered "parenting classes" and fully cooperated with DCFS,and,as far as Nancy not showing up for visits that is nonsense.The last few visits Nancy was supposed to have never materialized,they were "cancelled" at the last minute.Nancy also was denied visits because they told Nancy that Alicia was being punished for not behaving. Nancy even had an attorney who gave up on fighting for Alicia recently ,because he had told Nancy that he had done all he could for her,and ,that Nancy should be happy to have had Christie returned to her( in 1996). I hope this answers some of your questions.Any questions or comments are welcome.
> "Ask them what their stats are on how many > "founded" assessments are reversed later, > and where stats are." Very nice! BE nice.
Dan, I talked to somebody high up in Iowa's system and the second I mentioned that lots of kids are being removed without good reason, the DHS persons tone switched to sarcasm and condescention. Made a comment like "No, we don't have anything better to do with our time.".
We're dealing with an agency that stonewalls bigtime.
The only reason to "be nice" is to see to it that you don't give them any more "ammunition" to use to justify their abuse of your family.
Greg Hanson wrote: > > "Ask them what their stats are on how many > > "founded" assessments are reversed later, > > and where stats are." Very nice! BE nice. > Dan, I talked to somebody high up in Iowa's system and > the second I mentioned that lots of kids are being removed > without good reason, the DHS persons tone switched > to sarcasm and condescention. Made a comment like > "No, we don't have anything better to do with our time.".
Typical.
> We're dealing with an agency that stonewalls bigtime.
Absolutely!
> The only reason to "be nice" is to see to it that you > don't give them any more "ammunition" to use to > justify their abuse of your family.
Oh, I will be POLITE with them... that is far different than being 'nice'. Remember, diplomacy is the skill of saying 'nice doggy' while you look for a big sharp rock!
"Greg Hanson" <gree...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:siSp7.28887$P8.8478417@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>... > > "Ask them what their stats are on how many > > "founded" assessments are reversed later, > > and where stats are." Very nice! BE nice. > Dan, I talked to somebody high up in Iowa's system and > the second I mentioned that lots of kids are being removed > without good reason, the DHS persons tone switched > to sarcasm and condescention. Made a comment like > "No, we don't have anything better to do with our time.".
> We're dealing with an agency that stonewalls bigtime.
> The only reason to "be nice" is to see to it that you > don't give them any more "ammunition" to use to > justify their abuse of your family.
Hey Greg,
The reason to be nice is to get them to drop their guard so they will give you information to use in your goal of proving the system to be out of control. It's nice to be nice!
> > > "Ask them what their stats are on how many > > > "founded" assessments are reversed later, > > > and where stats are." Very nice! BE nice. > > Dan, I talked to somebody high up in Iowa's system and > > the second I mentioned that lots of kids are being removed > > without good reason, the DHS persons tone switched > > to sarcasm and condescention. Made a comment like > > "No, we don't have anything better to do with our time.".
> Typical.
> > We're dealing with an agency that stonewalls bigtime.
> Absolutely!
> > The only reason to "be nice" is to see to it that you > > don't give them any more "ammunition" to use to > > justify their abuse of your family.
> Oh, I will be POLITE with them... that is far different than being > 'nice'. Remember, diplomacy is the skill of saying 'nice doggy' while > you look for a big sharp rock!
Polite is FAR different than nice?
Polite means courteous social conduct, and courteous means showing respect.
Nice means fastidious, precise, pleasing, AND respectable.
> The reason to be nice is to get them to drop their guard so they will > give you information to use in your goal of proving the system to be > out of control. It's nice to be nice!
So you sweetly ask them how much they screw up and they'll be glad to hand over the stats? Riiiight.....
"Greg Hanson" <gree...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:d%Aq7.33451$P8.10019135@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>... > > The reason to be nice is to get them to drop their guard so they will > > give you information to use in your goal of proving the system to be > > out of control. It's nice to be nice! > So you sweetly ask them how much they screw up and they'll > be glad to hand over the stats? Riiiight.....
Noooooo.....
I wouldn't ask them how much they screw up.
I already know that.
I don't want stats either.
If the dialog starts with a poke in CPS' eye the conversation is going to come to a stop real fast. (didn't that just happen to you Greg?)
I would like to see an ongoing discussion in every county in every state with as many CPS people as can be found because you will learn the flaws and holes in CPS' procedures and then you can use them to your advantage!
For example, I was told by the state, by the metropolitan regional office, and my local CPS that when there is something wrong in a family and they don't know what it is they make a finding of Inadequate Guardianship-IG for short. Each of their stories were almost word for word identical, which leads me to believe that's what they're taught, but that really doesn't matter. What DOES matter is the fact that CPS is SUPPOSED to have credible evidence to support their decision to found someone for a specific type of child abuse, so HOW can they found someone for something if they don't know what the it IS? I am willing to bet that almost all findings of IG can be overturned. CPS will even document in the case record for you that they don't know what the problem is!
I learned that the only way to prove an accusation of emotional neglect is with an evaluation of the child by a qualified professional. CPS rarely if ever has the evaluation done, but that doesn't stop them from handing out EN findings like candy. A simple statement in a request for review that points out that fact will get the finding overturned on a dime!
As an example of what CPS thinks is credible evidence, when I was "founded" for molesting my 3 year old daughter, besides sending to the review CPS' own report that concluded there was no evidence that I had done anything, I pointed out that in the case record the caseworker wrote that she believed the proof that I molested my daughter came from my little girl because she said to CPS and the detectives, "My daddy touched me with the puppet bear in the toilet." AND THEN in the next sentence the caseworker wrote "We didn't know what she was trying to say." My question was, how can this statement of my daughters be credible evidence if no one knew what she was trying to say? I won.
As a side bar - I got a copy of my file from the DA's office to see why I wasn't arrested. Their report stated that there was no evidence anywhere that my little girl was even harmed. AND my daughter didn't accuse me of anything. AND there was a letter in the file from the CW to them stating that the forensic rape exam results were inconclusive! In spite of the fact that CPS AND the detectives did their interviews at the exact same time standing side by side their reports didn't match in any way at all. In fact if I went to trial in family court I would have called the detectives as MY witnesses. The petition to family court from CPS even claimed that the detectives were present when my daughter made her "credible evidence" statement. AND the CW stated in the petition that the forensic examination concluded that there WAS evidence of molestation! Can you say "fabrication?" You know sometimes I wish I did go to trial, but like I always say, "Stay out of court."
BTW the caseworker resigned from CPS on a Monday morning following the Friday that I picked up my copy of the case record and started alerting everyone from the state on down about how insane the caseworker acted AND documented in the case record and petition! I was petitioned to family court in September and the CW documented in the CR that in March she did a vaginal exam on my daughter and attempted on three different visits after that to program my daughter into accusing me of molesting her, all documented in the case record! "As the labia were gently separated the little girl said STOP IT HURTS." Isn't that special! One supervisor from a local CPS told me that CPS workers were trained to examine injuries. I told him that a sexual abuse accusation had not even been made at the time and he got real loud and said, "How do you know THAT?" I said I read it in the case record. Then he said even louder, "How did you get a copy of the case record?" I love it when they lose control. In NY CPS does NOT want to give out copies of the case record to anyone, subjects of the reports AND their attnys included. PLUS from March to September I had MORE visitation than my visitation agreement specified and no one including CPS tried to get the visitation even reduced. The CW worked in the garment industry in Manhattan before she worked for CPS, do you think that's where she got her medical training? She also went BACK there after her stint at CPS! Two hours on the train in the morning and another two at night, I can't tell you how bad I feel.
I requested the DA info because I thought it was a good idea to see what was in THEIR file so I asked for it, my attny thought it was a waste of time because I wasn't arrested. And he used to be an assistant DA! Another freakin' expert!
Anyhow back at the ranch, you don't want to ask what they do wrong, you want to ask how things work, and be prepared to LISTEN AND LEARN!
Good luck on your review Greg. You have my prayers!
> > > > "Ask them what their stats are on how many > > > > "founded" assessments are reversed later, > > > > and where stats are." Very nice! BE nice. > > > Dan, I talked to somebody high up in Iowa's system and > > > the second I mentioned that lots of kids are being removed > > > without good reason, the DHS persons tone switched > > > to sarcasm and condescention. Made a comment like > > > "No, we don't have anything better to do with our time.".
> > Typical.
> > > We're dealing with an agency that stonewalls bigtime.
> > Absolutely!
> > > The only reason to "be nice" is to see to it that you > > > don't give them any more "ammunition" to use to > > > justify their abuse of your family.
> > Oh, I will be POLITE with them... that is far different than being > > 'nice'. Remember, diplomacy is the skill of saying 'nice doggy' while > > you look for a big sharp rock!
> Polite is FAR different than nice?
Yup, it quite often can be.
> Polite means courteous social conduct, and courteous means showing respect.
Respect for the social conduct, not necessarily for the object or target of it.
I have seen many being as polite as can be flaying the flesh from the bones of someone else... I have done so myself.
Apparently you have not attended as many Cape Cod soires as I have, Delusional Dan.
> Nice means fastidious, precise, pleasing, AND respectable.
> Respectable vs showing respect.
> Get your facts straight neal!
I have them straight, Delusional Dan, and your selective definition hopping only shows you have nothing legitimate to say.
I seriously doubt if many (heck, if ANY) people here agree with your disagreement regarding my statement.
Actually, Dan, I did not start out asking the telling questions when I talked to the high ranking non-social-worker. I asked those when I was already prepared to say good bye. She told me that in Iowa, anybody can call themself a social worker, and even a therapist. I see it as a 50/50 chance that she's wrong.
We supposedly have all of the documents but nothing is called the case record. Is there actually a document with that title or are you referring to the whole stack of documents?
They don't express any doubt in our records. I wouldn't count on them making that same mistake very much in the future.
I'd like to make a big deal out of the way they all get together to get their opinions all aligned with each other. -to "get their stories straight". If criminals do this it's called witness tampering, but these people destroy any chance of impartiality by making sure they all agree with each other. We can catch them on this, but it's not even considered to be improper.
That's how they "circle their wagons" to get people.
"Greg Hanson" <gree...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:LAYq7.36202$P8.10747706@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>... > Actually, Dan, I did not start out asking the telling questions > when I talked to the high ranking non-social-worker. > I asked those when I was already prepared to say good bye. > She told me that in Iowa, anybody can call themself a social worker, > and even a therapist. I see it as a 50/50 chance that she's wrong.
> We supposedly have all of the documents but nothing > is called the case record. Is there actually a document > with that title or are you referring to the whole stack of > documents?
> They don't express any doubt in our records. > I wouldn't count on them making that same mistake > very much in the future.
> I'd like to make a big deal out of the way they all > get together to get their opinions all aligned with > each other. -to "get their stories straight". > If criminals do this it's called witness tampering, > but these people destroy any chance of > impartiality by making sure they all agree with > each other. We can catch them on this, but it's not > even considered to be improper.
> That's how they "circle their wagons" to get people.
CONSPIRACY to defraud the taxpayers under RICO. Fraud. Fiscal mismanagement. Denial of due process.
"Greg Hanson" <gree...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:LAYq7.36202$P8.10747706@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>... > Actually, Dan, I did not start out asking the telling questions > when I talked to the high ranking non-social-worker. > I asked those when I was already prepared to say good bye.
Good bye for good I imagine.
> She told me that in Iowa, anybody can call themself a social worker, > and even a therapist. I see it as a 50/50 chance that she's wrong.
> We supposedly have all of the documents but nothing > is called the case record. Is there actually a document > with that title or are you referring to the whole stack of > documents?
There MUST be a file with all the pertinent documents in it. How else could they keep it all togther? In NY one side is the progress notes fron the CW and the other is the supporting docs.
> They don't express any doubt in our records. > I wouldn't count on them making that same mistake > very much in the future.
CPS is always 100% sure of ALL of the evidence, even after their decision gets reversed.
> I'd like to make a big deal out of the way they all > get together to get their opinions all aligned with > each other. -to "get their stories straight". > If criminals do this it's called witness tampering, > but these people destroy any chance of > impartiality by making sure they all agree with > each other. We can catch them on this, but it's not > even considered to be improper.
WOT
> That's how they "circle their wagons" to get people.
Screw 'em.
Do what you have to do as far as the unfounding goes and hope for the best.
I wanted to tell you, you only wrote 12 pages, the first time I asked for the decision to be overturned CPS hadn't let me see the CR so I lost that step, the fair hearing I won, but the next time I was founded and asked for a review I had received an actual copy of the CR and my response was over 20 pages! Eventually I cut it down to 5 or 6 but I know how you felt, you had to tell your whole story. Have you read their program Manual? All the info you need is in there.
> CPS is always 100% sure of ALL of the evidence, even after their > decision gets reversed.
Careful now Dan, Neal and you might agree on that. :)
> > I'd like to make a big deal out of the way they all > > get together to get their opinions all aligned with > > each other. -to "get their stories straight". > > If criminals do this it's called witness tampering, > > but these people destroy any chance of > > impartiality by making sure they all agree with > > each other. We can catch them on this, but it's not > > even considered to be improper. > WOT
Work On That?
> > That's how they "circle their wagons" to get people. > Screw 'em.
It doesn't seem to be constructive to ignore this aspect.
> Have you read their program Manual?
Yes and no. Iowa has a two part Assessment Manual on the web. It looks like caseworkers can just concentrate on that part and don't need to be educated about the rest of what professional Social Workers profess. Certainly the other parts of the pattern manual discussing the duality of their relationship and the "helping relationship" seem to be easily left behind.
"Greg Hanson" <gree...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:mt9r7.36895$P8.11174618@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>... > > CPS is always 100% sure of ALL of the evidence, even after their > > decision gets reversed. > Careful now Dan, Neal and you might agree on that. :)
You mean neal might agree with me. HAHA!
> > > I'd like to make a big deal out of the way they all > > > get together to get their opinions all aligned with > > > each other. -to "get their stories straight". > > > If criminals do this it's called witness tampering, > > > but these people destroy any chance of > > > impartiality by making sure they all agree with > > > each other. We can catch them on this, but it's not > > > even considered to be improper. > > WOT > Work On That?
Waste of time. Yes there are things that are a WOT!
> > > That's how they "circle their wagons" to get people. > > Screw 'em. > It doesn't seem to be constructive to ignore this aspect.
> > Have you read their program Manual? > Yes and no. Iowa has a two part Assessment Manual on the web. > It looks like caseworkers can just concentrate on that part > and don't need to be educated about the rest of what > professional Social Workers profess. Certainly the other parts > of the pattern manual discussing the duality of their relationship > and the "helping relationship" seem to be easily left behind.
