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Cancer stem cells - Low psa versus high psa
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Ronald Spane
May 10, 2012, 11:09:22 AM5/10/12
to
Read this article from MD Anderson research and it seems to confirm
the views that the more aggressive cancers produce a low psa
initially. I'm wondering if we need a better definition of what is
aggressive versus what is more troublesome in the long run since the
low psa cells appear to resist Chemo and Hormone therapy and is the
cell type that does many in eventually. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/245064.php.
Ron S.
the views that the more aggressive cancers produce a low psa
initially. I'm wondering if we need a better definition of what is
aggressive versus what is more troublesome in the long run since the
low psa cells appear to resist Chemo and Hormone therapy and is the
cell type that does many in eventually. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/245064.php.
Ron S.
EdF
May 13, 2012, 5:34:38 PM5/13/12
to
receptor makes PSA and that the amount of membrane androgen receptor
and intracellular androgen receptor must be in relative balance in
order for prostate cancer cells to survive in the presence of
testosterone. If the low PSA is due to an imbalance, then high
testosterone levels should kill these cells. Researchers have already
demonstrated that for human prostate cancer cell lines, testosterone
kills those lines with no intracellular androgen receptor as well as
those with 10 times higher levels of intracellular androgen receptor
as normal. It would not surprise me if high testosterone levels would
kill these stem cells as well.
Ed Friedman
Steve Kramer
May 14, 2012, 9:45:33 PM5/14/12
to
I think we do.
I had a 7 Gleason and my surgeon said it was one of the most aggressive
cancers he's ever seen.
Seems counterintuitive.
PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.05 Next draw AUG 2012 @ 57
Illegitimati non carborundum
"Ronald Spane" wrote in message
news:39e5f685-91de-4a53...@m11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
I had a 7 Gleason and my surgeon said it was one of the most aggressive
cancers he's ever seen.
Seems counterintuitive.
PSA OCT 2000 @ 46
Biopsy NOV 2000 3+4=7, T2c
RRP DEC 2000 3+4=7), T3cN0M0, SVI, Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT MAY - JULY 2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD 0.56 years
Lupron started JULY 2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.40 years
Casodex added JUL 2006 @ 51
Last PSA <0.05 Next draw AUG 2012 @ 57
Illegitimati non carborundum
"Ronald Spane" wrote in message
news:39e5f685-91de-4a53...@m11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Alan Meyer
May 14, 2012, 10:35:17 PM5/14/12
to
On 05/13/2012 05:34 PM, EdF wrote:
...
I would think that, in order to benefit from this kind of knowledge, it
would be necessary to have a lab do a molecular analysis of a patient's
tumor cells, and have an oncologist knowledgeable enough to know what
the results of the analysis meant and what to do with those results.
I know that there are some oncologists knowledgeable enough to do this,
but I bet they don't work at my HMO. This is one reason why it makes
sense to seek treatment at a teaching and research hospital if possible.
That's where one is most likely to find both a lab and a doctor that
can make sense of these highly technical issues.
Do you have any sense of how close we are to getting this level of
sophistication in routine patient treatment?
Alan
...
> This raises an interesting point. It is known that membrane androgen
> receptor makes PSA and that the amount of membrane androgen receptor
> and intracellular androgen receptor must be in relative balance in
> order for prostate cancer cells to survive in the presence of
> testosterone. If the low PSA is due to an imbalance, then high
> testosterone levels should kill these cells. Researchers have already
> demonstrated that for human prostate cancer cell lines, testosterone
> kills those lines with no intracellular androgen receptor as well as
> those with 10 times higher levels of intracellular androgen receptor
> as normal. It would not surprise me if high testosterone levels would
> kill these stem cells as well.
>
> Ed Friedman
Ed,
> receptor makes PSA and that the amount of membrane androgen receptor
> and intracellular androgen receptor must be in relative balance in
> order for prostate cancer cells to survive in the presence of
> testosterone. If the low PSA is due to an imbalance, then high
> testosterone levels should kill these cells. Researchers have already
> demonstrated that for human prostate cancer cell lines, testosterone
> kills those lines with no intracellular androgen receptor as well as
> those with 10 times higher levels of intracellular androgen receptor
> as normal. It would not surprise me if high testosterone levels would
> kill these stem cells as well.
>
> Ed Friedman
I would think that, in order to benefit from this kind of knowledge, it
would be necessary to have a lab do a molecular analysis of a patient's
tumor cells, and have an oncologist knowledgeable enough to know what
the results of the analysis meant and what to do with those results.
I know that there are some oncologists knowledgeable enough to do this,
but I bet they don't work at my HMO. This is one reason why it makes
sense to seek treatment at a teaching and research hospital if possible.
That's where one is most likely to find both a lab and a doctor that
can make sense of these highly technical issues.
Do you have any sense of how close we are to getting this level of
sophistication in routine patient treatment?
Alan
Ed Friedman
May 15, 2012, 12:56:12 AM5/15/12
to
On 05/14/2012 09:35 PM, Alan Meyer wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> I would think that, in order to benefit from this kind of knowledge, it
> would be necessary to have a lab do a molecular analysis of a patient's
> tumor cells, and have an oncologist knowledgeable enough to know what
> the results of the analysis meant and what to do with those results.
>
> I know that there are some oncologists knowledgeable enough to do this,
> but I bet they don't work at my HMO. This is one reason why it makes
> sense to seek treatment at a teaching and research hospital if possible.
> That's where one is most likely to find both a lab and a doctor that can
> make sense of these highly technical issues.
>
> Do you have any sense of how close we are to getting this level of
> sophistication in routine patient treatment?
>
> Alan
Alan,
>
> Ed,
>
> I would think that, in order to benefit from this kind of knowledge, it
> would be necessary to have a lab do a molecular analysis of a patient's
> tumor cells, and have an oncologist knowledgeable enough to know what
> the results of the analysis meant and what to do with those results.
>
> I know that there are some oncologists knowledgeable enough to do this,
> but I bet they don't work at my HMO. This is one reason why it makes
> sense to seek treatment at a teaching and research hospital if possible.
> That's where one is most likely to find both a lab and a doctor that can
> make sense of these highly technical issues.
>
> Do you have any sense of how close we are to getting this level of
> sophistication in routine patient treatment?
>
> Alan
Things are progressing pretty rapidly. A preliminary report out of Johns
Hopkins indicates that 2 of 4 men with CRPC who were given
super-physiological levels of testosterone for two weeks followed by
near castrate levels of testosterone for two weeks had a drop in PSA by
over 50% after 12 weeks. They are trying to recruit more patients for
this study. I'm eagerly awaiting more detailed results from this study.
Ed Friedman
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