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Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
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gentry.underw...@gmail.com  
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 More options Dec 9 2005, 5:34 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: gentry.underw...@gmail.com
Date: 9 Dec 2005 14:34:31 -0800
Local: Fri, Dec 9 2005 5:34 pm
Subject: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
Talk about burying your talents...

Can someone in the know make sense of all this?

Gentry Underwood
http://www.BringBackBruderhof.com


 
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wayne  
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 More options Dec 9 2005, 6:23 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: "wayne" <wayneches...@hotmail.com>
Date: 9 Dec 2005 15:23:09 -0800
Local: Fri, Dec 9 2005 6:23 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
I suspect they have had to clamp down on insiders having access to the
internet. It may be that someone with web access (maybe in the group
that published their web site) read something (like this group) that
they were not supposed to, so the leaders shut down all internet
access.

It scares me that they put this in an apocalyptic context. They are
insular enough and becoming more so that I worry about people I love
and respect there.

Wayne


 
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gentry.underw...@gmail.com  
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 More options Dec 9 2005, 7:53 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: gentry.underw...@gmail.com
Date: 9 Dec 2005 16:53:54 -0800
Local: Fri, Dec 9 2005 7:53 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?

>It scares me that they put this in an apocalyptic context.

What do you mean? how/where?

 
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24...@earthlink.net  
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 More options Dec 9 2005, 8:56 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: 24...@earthlink.net
Date: 9 Dec 2005 17:56:41 -0800
Local: Fri, Dec 9 2005 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?

>From cache:

Recently this headline caught my attention: "A LOW-COST LAPTOP FOR
EVERY CHILD - Effort to link world's rural poor to Internet with $100
computers gets boost from U.N."

Shivers went through me. Have things really gone that far? Surely
it's a sign that the end times are here. In fact, I've sometimes
had the fleeting thought that computers are the mark of the beast
Revelation warns us of-the mark without which no one will be able to
buy or sell.

I myself use computers a lot, and see them as a necessary evil. My
wife, Verena, on the other hand, openly hates them. She has teased me
that things will get so bad that one day I'll say good night to her
via email!

Verena has a good point, which is why I have always fought tooth and
nail against exposing young children to computers. The way the
technology is expanding, it will eventually destroy us. What shocks me
the most is the way children as young as three and four are being lured
into using computers. May God have mercy!

Have we forgotten that every child has a soul-something far more
precious than the brightest  budding intellect? An unspoiled child is
bursting with creativity, imaginativeness, and the desire to explore,
experiment, and invent. Yet with technology, these God-given gifts can
be quickly stunted-and so can a child's ability to use its mind and
to relate to others.

There are dozens of pros and cons to computers, but I am not going to
enumerate them here. I am simply suggesting that we all take a step
back to see where our society is headed, and to assess the damage we
have already inflicted on ourselves and on the next generation. Have
computers really made life easier? Have they made us happier-or
tenser and more withdrawn? Has enhanced communication made our world
any less violent? On a personal level, has it helped us get to know our
spouse, our children, or our neighbors any better?

Conveniences like email have obviously made many tasks easier, but at
what cost? Unlike our parents, we are now able to chat with people on
the other side of the globe at a moment's notice, on any imaginable
topic. But in the process, many of us have lost the ability to relate
to the people we live and work with from day to day. We are so busy
text-messaging people we cannot see, that we miss those right in front
of us, with whom we could be talking face-to-face.

When did you last take time to go out to your mailbox and meet someone
on the sidewalk and say "good morning"?  Far from looking for such
chances, most of us are more comfortable in front of a screen and will
go to any extreme in order to avoid meeting others. We are letting
technology isolate us and slowly choke us to death.

That is why I am so concerned about the computerization of childhood.
It is the opposite of progress: it amounts to enslavement. One could
even say it borders on spiritual genocide. I know some readers will
feel I am overstating the danger, but it's hard to ignore the facts:
from chat rooms and blogs to webcams and online porn, our love affair
with computers is literally killing us. It is breaking up marriages and
families, and wounding souls by addicting them to all sorts of
unhealthy things. And it will all end in depression and despair. As
Jesus says, "You shall reap what you sow."

It is money that drives this mania, as we saw on Thanksgiving weekend,
when millions of "Black Friday" shoppers stormed malls across the
country to snatch up the latest electronic gadgets. True, millions of
families also gathered around the table to count their blessings. But
the Gospels warn that "you cannot serve God and Mammon." How many
of us still try to do both?

I've often wondered about the tremendous pressure we exert on the
young to become competent computer users. Is it really out of love for
them? Or does it stem from something else? After all, it makes robots
out of them by destroying their natural inclination for play. And
computers are hardly a necessity, as far as learning goes. For
thousands of years the world existed without them and still produced
great artists and poets, mathematicians and thinkers.

Over the years, my wife and I have traveled to more than two dozen
Third World countries and have seen children struggling with
unbelievable obstacles-hunger, disease, and countless other ills.
Amazingly, these children were happy with the little they had.
Certainly they needed help-but not low-cost laptops, as trumpeted by
the headline I referred to above. That would be like giving stones to
someone asking for bread. These children needed food, medicine,
and-most of all-the love of God.

In Leviticus we are warned that we should not make idols. Yet this is
exactly what our computers have become. They have slowly but surely
taken God's place in our lives, and we have become dependent on them
rather than on one another. They are destroying the living community
that God wants every soul on the planet to share in-especially every
child.

Jesus said many important things about children:

Let the children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of
heaven belongs to such as these.

If anyone causes one of the little ones who believe in me to sin, it
would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to
be drowned in the depths of the sea.

I tell you the truth: unless you change and become like a little child,
you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Somewhere deep down, every person longs to be allowed into this
kingdom. But if, in embracing technology and forcing it on our
children, we prevent even one from finding Jesus, his serious words
about a millstone may become a reality. Is that what we want?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to log off. I want to go pick
up the mail and give my wife a kiss.


 
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mf...@juno.com  
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 More options Dec 10 2005, 10:02 am
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: mf...@juno.com
Date: 10 Dec 2005 07:02:29 -0800
Local: Sat, Dec 10 2005 10:02 am
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
Mr. Underwood, let me try to make sense of this.
Those of us who grew up on the Bruderhof have had many experiences of
this kind.

-As a passionate soccer player I well remember that, upon renewed
contact with the Hutterites, soccer was forbidden; yet later it was
once again allowed.
-VCR movies were permitted; then the priviledge was revoked.
-When money applenty was around (Rifton Aviation Service) youth were
sent to Ivy Legue Schools, only to be abruptly called back home.
-My wife, children and I once were  welcome guests, and we truly
appreciated our visits "home"; now we are shunned.
-Kopftuchs (head covers for women) could once be tied in the back of
the neck(admittedly, a more appealing, slightly "fashionable" look!);
now decons stand outside meeting room doors to make sure all women have
their K-tuchs tied under the chin. Men must have shirts tucked into
trousers.

The list goes on and on. One thing is certain: Christoph's wife,
Verena, has her heart-surgery- recovering husband's attention!  I hope
shutdown of the Bhof internet site signals serious, inhouse, soul
searching: Internet articles, even those that inspire the multitudes,
are relatively easy to write. Living those words is infinitely harder.

Mel


 
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mf...@juno.com  
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 More options Dec 10 2005, 12:15 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: mf...@juno.com
Date: 10 Dec 2005 09:15:02 -0800
Local: Sat, Dec 10 2005 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
Dear Mr. Underwood
I can well understand that you and many others enjoy the Bruderhof's
"Daily Digs". An inspiriing thought can add a spark to an otherwise
mundane day.

However, I would ask you consider the organization and the leader
behind the Lie that masquerades as "Daily Digs"; the tree whose
fruit you admire from cyberspace distance . You ask those of us in this
forum to join you in requesting a return of the Bruderhof webpage. I am
asking you to consider the Jesus this organization models.

This Jesus...
-disrupts the delicate fabric of family relations
-comes down hard on adolescents who struggle with sexual issues
-looks askance at those of its teens who demonstrate remarkable gifts
of intellect or art
-casts out its own prophets
-participates in the "American Dream" when it feels inclined to do so
-condones dishonesty
-points at the wounds of others but will not acknowledge and deal with
its own
-condones cursing and verbal putdowns
-condones cigar smoking in meeting rooms
-condones shutting off heating furnaces in the midst of winter
-has a pupet elder who submits to pastor Arnold
-is perpetually struggling with leadership issues regarding the
so-called "Arnold Dynasty"

The list goes on and on. I only want to point out to you that words,
even Daily Digs, come a dime a dozen!  I would encourage you to send a
message to Daily Dig Devotees: Reverse the trend, and send your Daily
Silent Thoughts /Prayers the Bruderhof's way! Hope that Pastor Arnold
may have a true surgery of the heart; the kind that leads to humility
and changed conduct. Then, and only then, can I join you in reading and
appreciating Daily Digs.

Melchior Fros


 
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emailharvest...@yahoo.com  
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 More options Dec 11 2005, 12:36 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: emailharvest...@yahoo.com
Date: 11 Dec 2005 09:36:48 -0800
Local: Sun, Dec 11 2005 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
Well, actually they didn't. The Community Playthings and Rifton
Equipment sites are still up and running. So I guess the thinking is
that the unrighteous Internet can be utilized by God's people if it's
in pursuit of the "unrighteous mammon" (as Jesus referred to it). But
it cannot be utilized for non income generating evangelism. That is at
least a consistent position, in its own, ironic way.

John


 
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gentry.underw...@gmail.com  
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 More options Dec 12 2005, 1:59 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: gentry.underw...@gmail.com
Date: 12 Dec 2005 10:59:01 -0800
Local: Mon, Dec 12 2005 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to answer my question --
particularly to Mel.

I invite you add your comments on http://www.bringbackbruderhof.com,
even if they're not positive. You'll find you're not the only ones with
negative opinions.

I know very little about the Bruderhof -- I'm learning quite a bit,
though. Clearly they have left quite a bit of hurt and anger in their
wake, perhaps because they react rigidly and sweepingly instead of
slowly and humbly. But even this conjecture is from someone very much
on the outside.

I raised the BBB website because I think there were some very wonderful
things to come out of Bruderhof.com -- things that are more important
than Bruderhof itself. In that sense I feel the the decision to go dark
is tragic, nomatter what mistakes the community itself has made in the
past or continues to make. Many of the 'voices' in the Daily Dig --
Thomas Merton, Dorothy Day, Henri Nouwen, Oscar Romero, etc., -- were
not in any way members of Bruderhof, yet through the Dig their ideas
(ideas backed by lives of action) were offering inspiration. And as
anyone who tries to 'walk the talk' knows, a word of encouragement from
a hero now and again can be a real boost on an otherwise lonely trail.

Blessings to you all.

-gentry


 
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mf...@juno.com  
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 More options Dec 13 2005, 10:35 am
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: mf...@juno.com
Date: 13 Dec 2005 07:35:13 -0800
Local: Tues, Dec 13 2005 10:35 am
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
G'day,Gentry
You may post the 2nd of my Dec 10th "Daily Digs" (11:15 AM) on your
site. It speaks the language of my heart.

GU: I know very little about the Bruderhof -- I'm learning quite a bit,

though. Clearly they have left quite a bit of hurt and anger in their
wake....

MF: Add hypocracy to the list! Thank you for acknowledging your lack of
information! Please continue to ask, seek, and knock. You will find
that apples are not as healthy as they appear from distant Pastor
Arnold's Online Orchard. It is not only recent events that this forum
seek to bring to your attention; the Bruderhof has a dark side - "warts
and all"-  that it would like to keep under wraps. If you visit and ask
about such matters you will be told, "We are weak humans; yet we are
part of something much Greater".

GU: I raised the BBB website because I think there were some very
wonderful
things to come out of Bruderhof.com -- things that are more important
than Bruderhof itself. ...And as anyone who tries to 'walk the talk'
knows, a word of encouragement from
a hero now and again can be a real boost on an otherwise lonely trail.

MF: I understand. I have reason to believe the Bhof web site will pop
up again. Hope (against all hope ?) that Pastor Arnold yet has a true
change of heart: while time is on his side he tends the apple orchard
on his Wooded Crest.

Mel


 
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emailharvest...@yahoo.com  
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 More options Dec 13 2005, 2:02 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: emailharvest...@yahoo.com
Date: 13 Dec 2005 11:02:58 -0800
Local: Tues, Dec 13 2005 2:02 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?

> MF: I understand. I have reason to believe the Bhof web site will pop
> up again.

Of course it will. Such things are wholly cyclical.

Eberhard Arnold believed that automobiles were "anti-God", and that
God's true people would never come to rely on them. His attitude is now
regarded by Bruderhofers as romantically quaint. Almost comical. JCA's
current attitude regarding computers and the Internet will eventually
be seen in exactly the same way.

The Bruderhof is not the Amish. Never was. And in my opinion, never
will be.

- John


 
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jocely...@gmail.com  
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 More options Jan 11 2006, 3:27 am
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: jocely...@gmail.com
Date: 11 Jan 2006 00:27:50 -0800
Local: Wed, Jan 11 2006 3:27 am
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
Along with Gentry and many others, I have stood by, mourning the loss
of the Daily Dig, but also tenatively, grimly, begun the process of
discovering what is going on over there behind the bruderhof site. I
have so much difficulty accepting what it is that you are saying about
your family and former home, however, I must defer to your experience.
All I know of them came from a daily e-mail and article that drew on
the wisdom of many of Christianity's greatest thinkers; sound insight,
probing questions, and more.

You say that it is easy to write such articles and maintain such a
site, but I don't believe it's true, or we would have a glut of quality
Christian books and articles, when all we really have is a glut of
Christian self-help books under the guise of wisdom (that's another
rant altogether!). I heard underneath the nice pictures and thought
provoking words, the spirit of God living in them.

I believe what you say about the warty interior under the humble, shiny
exterior that the bruderhof present. Your words made me think tonight -
I realize that although many christians are called to community life,
all it does is serve to remind us how completely broken and fallen we
are. it's one of the hardest parts of christian life there is, and when
it is done in such an extreme manner as communities like the bruderhof,
hutterites, amish and others, there are bound to be conflicts, power
struggles, 'charismatic' personalities and other difficult encounters.

I learned awhile ago that living a Christian is all about the balance.
Balance between the world and the Kingdom, your self and your God, your
discipline and the grace given to you. Time and time again I learn
through my own life and the lives of others that the Christian life
lived far outside that balance gets stuck in a pale facsimile of the
walk that Jesus walked. We see this in the pharisees who camped out in
the extreme of legalism.
You know where the rest of this sermon is going.

MF: I would encourage you to send a
message to Daily Dig Devotees: Reverse the trend, and send your Daily
Silent Thoughts /Prayers the Bruderhof's way!

JT: In any case, thank you for educating me about your experiences. I
can assure you that the minute I realized something was up - I
prayed... and sent a letter to the bruderhof address letting them know
that I was praying for whatever God was doing with them.

I believ ethat ultimately we are all composites of light and dark,
whole and broken, like the broken jars of clay. Unquestionably, the
bruderhof have had some ministry in God's eyes. I hope that one day, as
you say, Arnold's heart would be obedient and sensitive.

thanks again


 
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tedomer@cia-g.com  
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 More options Jan 16 2006, 7:30 pm
Newsgroups: alt.support.bruderhof
From: "tedo...@cia-g.com" <tedo...@cia-g.com>
Date: 16 Jan 2006 16:30:51 -0800
Local: Mon, Jan 16 2006 7:30 pm
Subject: Re: Why did Bruderhof shut down everything web-related?
This post is tied to the "Dig It" thread on this Newsgroup. The BBB
site clearly has a pro-Bruderhof agenda - as its' name implies. Readers
should know that some comments are removed, so realize that the site is
sanitized of postings opposing the BH if the moderator feels those
postings are not gentle enough toward the BH.

I wrote to Gentry that I would post the letter below if he removed my
post to his site. He did, so I am:

On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Tim Domer wrote:

Gentry,

You are obviously free to do anything you wish - it's your web site.
 As I wrote earlier, since you felt strongly enough about the BH to
 set up a web site in an attempt to bring them back to the Internet,
 it is appropriate to direct some specific comments to you - in
 reply to comments you made. The comments I made apply to all those
 who are being fooled by the BH. The opioid haze I spoke about is
 the haze of religious idiology and the "Christian" smoke screen the
 BH hides behind.  You wrote comments on ASB - to which I replied. I
 cross posted them to your site because I felt it was the honest
 thing to do.

 If you want to moderate your site and determine what people should
 say about the BH, and the manner in which it should be said, go
 ahead. As I said, it is your site. Just realize, though, that that
 is the exact same tactic the BH uses to screen out those voices it
 does not care to hear. If that is the route you wish to take then
 you have your wish - the BH is indeed back, alive and well on your
 web site.

 I will probably post this on ASB if you do remove what I wrote.
 Enough people have been fooled by the outward show of the BH. They
 need to know that the site dedicated to brining back the BH has
 taken a page from its' play book.

 Tim Domer


 
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