being my autistic self
natureloverchris
that I don't let myself do it. I'm quite comfortable being alone much
of the time but people seem to not like it. earlier this month with the
beginning of school I started remembering the earlier years of school.
I knew I blocked it out. I'd tried in the past to remember with no
success. This time I wasn't trying to remember and it came back. One of
my memories is playing quite happily away from the other kids at the
bus stop. I remember them noticing me alone and throwing things at me.
I was a target.
last night at Rosh Hashanah services I sat way off to the side. I was
towards the front but I was the only person in that section and being
towards the front it was obvious. it was far enough off to the side
people didn't want to sit there I guess? it seems people want to bunch
together (weird). I could fidget without disrupting anyone and had less
people noise and contact. This morning I sat a bit more to the middle -
old habits, must not stand out. I wasn't comfortable. it was hard to
follow the services, very overloading. After a bit I move to my
isolated spot and services were better. I was stimming like mad and
didn't stop myself.
a bit ago at work my work group went on a field trip. we spent a lot of
time in the car. when we were out we were going as a group to check out
different sites. I let myself wander away from them at times. I let
myself go silent. And then at lunch I sat apart. my coworker/friend
asked if I was taking a break, instead of making up an excuse for my
isolation (which is what I would have done in the past) I simply said
yes. Of course it helped that she asked what she did. we've talked
about my issues and this time she got it :)
I'm still mostly 'in the closet' about myself. the reality is I was
abused at home, at school and in my neighborhood in large part because
of my autism. remembering the earlier years of school has been
horrible, but maybe it's letting me find myself too. I've lived with
fear so long, I never realized I was afraid. I didn't realize how I
consistently 'covered' for my difference because it was such an
automatic response. I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down
those gaurds, but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my
autistic self. if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can
finally learn to like her
Jeremy Reece
> I'm still mostly 'in the closet' about myself. the reality is I was
> abused at home, at school and in my neighborhood in large part because
> of my autism. remembering the earlier years of school has been
> horrible, but maybe it's letting me find myself too. I've lived with
> fear so long, I never realized I was afraid. I didn't realize how I
> consistently 'covered' for my difference because it was such an
> automatic response. I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down
> those gaurds, but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my
> autistic self. if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can
> finally learn to like her
Just smiling and nodding (internally). Sounds cathartic.
Jeremy
(who has those automatic defenses and cover stories too)
SpiderHam77
Your story is compelling, and I do know that in school today the
amount of teasing and abuse doesn't happen. Mainly because autism is
reconized at such an early age, and the other kids of the clas are
taught about it.
My son who sufferes from Autism is in a mainstream class in school,
and both him and the other students benefit from him being there. The
other kids when they see my son is struggling with some all pitch in to
help, and give him the direction he needs to complete a task.
And my son follows their lead, and tries to interact as much as
possible with the other children. I think complared to 20 years ago
when we were all in school there is a huge difference in the amount of
tolerance.
One thing though, and I'm not trying to put you down, but you as the
person who suffers through it need to take the intiative. Hate to say
it, but you almost need to be more aware of your surroundings, and take
the needed steps that you don't get to the point where you need to
stim.
And try not to be to upset with people around you if they don't
understand whats going on. For the most part alot of people in the
current 20yrs or above has never had to deal with an autistic person in
mainstream society.
I thank the hard work of parents with these children in the past in
bringing forth the publicity it has now. And we as parents with
autistic children need to carry on the work.
There is no need to be in the closet. Simply come out and enjoy
life. If you start to have an episode, then pull yourself away for a
few min. I know it's hard to redirect on your own. But the more you
educate other people around you about whats going on, the more you'll
find that upon seeing you in a certain state, they will want to try and
help.
SpiderHam77
Rowe Rickenbacker
> natureloverchris wrote:
>
>> I'm still mostly 'in the closet' about myself. the reality is I was
>> abused at home, at school and in my neighborhood in large part
>> because of my autism. remembering the earlier years of school has
>> been horrible, but maybe it's letting me find myself too. I've
>> lived with fear so long, I never realized I was afraid.
I think that was what was holding me back too. Realising fear
is such a good way of getting past it. Once you realise how it
holds you back, you can let go of it and learn to be yourself.
Well, easier said than done, but it seems to be okay...
>> I didn't realize how I consistently 'covered' for my difference
>> because it was such an automatic response.
I feel this so much, and I'm glad you put it into words for me,
because as silly as it sounds, there seem to be so many parts
of myself that I have problems with, and they're as simple as
this to describe, but I can never do it until someone else
comes up with the right words for me...
So thankyou for that.
>> I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down those guards,
>> but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my autistic self.
>> if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can finally learn
>> to like her
That's what I aim for. I hope you achieve your goal :)
> Just smiling and nodding (internally). Sounds cathartic.
I've been trying a lot more to figure myself out lately,
and despite what appears to be quite a lot of confidence in
conversation, I think it's apparent from my constant inability
to commit to anything that I'm not a particularly confident
person.
I can imagine Robin thinking that's a stupid reason to define
yourself as "under-confident", but I'll sneak around that by
saying it's not the only reason, but the best example I could
think of :)
Confidence is a scarecrow for bullies.
> Jeremy (who has those automatic defenses and cover stories too)
Sounds like the KGB :)
Tom
--
Before taking my post seriously, please take into account
that I was probably listening to Molotov when I wrote it.
Terry Jones
<NLC...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>last night at Rosh Hashanah services I sat way off to the side. I was
>towards the front but I was the only person in that section and being
>towards the front it was obvious. it was far enough off to the side
>people didn't want to sit there I guess? it seems people want to bunch
>together (weird). I could fidget without disrupting anyone and had less
>people noise and contact. This morning I sat a bit more to the middle -
>old habits, must not stand out. I wasn't comfortable. it was hard to
>follow the services, very overloading. After a bit I move to my
>isolated spot and services were better. I was stimming like mad and
>didn't stop myself.
We went to a synagogue last month (during the Open House weekend, when
a lot of buildings are open to the public) - It was the Bevis Marks
Synagogue, the oldest active one in Britain
http://www.ottolenghi.org/bevis-marks.htm
All the male visitors were provided with a skullcap to wear as we went
in.
But there was a separate balcony for the women (men on the ground
floor) - This is a Sephardic congregation, so I'd assume the one you
attend has a different convention (or did you mean that you sat apart
in the women's section)?
Terry
natureloverchris
Rowe Rickenbacker wrote:
> Jeremy Reece wrote:
>
> > natureloverchris wrote:
> >
> >> I'm still mostly 'in the closet' about myself. the reality is I was
> >> abused at home, at school and in my neighborhood in large part
> >> because of my autism. remembering the earlier years of school has
> >> been horrible, but maybe it's letting me find myself too. I've
> >> lived with fear so long, I never realized I was afraid.
>
> I think that was what was holding me back too. Realising fear
> is such a good way of getting past it. Once you realise how it
> holds you back, you can let go of it and learn to be yourself.
>
> Well, easier said than done, but it seems to be okay...
true
>
> >> I didn't realize how I consistently 'covered' for my difference
> >> because it was such an automatic response.
>
> I feel this so much, and I'm glad you put it into words for me,
> because as silly as it sounds, there seem to be so many parts
> of myself that I have problems with, and they're as simple as
> this to describe, but I can never do it until someone else
> comes up with the right words for me...
>
> So thankyou for that.
>
:)
it's been an interesting process of self discovery
> >> I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down those guards,
> >> but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my autistic self.
> >> if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can finally learn
> >> to like her
>
> That's what I aim for. I hope you achieve your goal :)
>
hmm....
> > Just smiling and nodding (internally). Sounds cathartic.
>
> I've been trying a lot more to figure myself out lately,
> and despite what appears to be quite a lot of confidence in
> conversation, I think it's apparent from my constant inability
> to commit to anything that I'm not a particularly confident
> person.
>
sounds like that might be true
> I can imagine Robin thinking that's a stupid reason to define
> yourself as "under-confident", but I'll sneak around that by
> saying it's not the only reason, but the best example I could
> think of :)
>
how about saying "I feel under-confident"
> Confidence is a scarecrow for bullies.
>
true
> > Jeremy (who has those automatic defenses and cover stories too)
>
> Sounds like the KGB :)
>
Kinky Goober Bugs!
natureloverchris
it was cathardic
natureloverchris
Terry Jones wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2005 21:09:39 -0700, "natureloverchris"
> <NLC...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> >last night at Rosh Hashanah services I sat way off to the side. I was
> >towards the front but I was the only person in that section and being
> >towards the front it was obvious. it was far enough off to the side
> >people didn't want to sit there I guess? it seems people want to bunch
> >together (weird). I could fidget without disrupting anyone and had less
> >people noise and contact. This morning I sat a bit more to the middle -
> >old habits, must not stand out. I wasn't comfortable. it was hard to
> >follow the services, very overloading. After a bit I move to my
> >isolated spot and services were better. I was stimming like mad and
> >didn't stop myself.
>
> We went to a synagogue last month (during the Open House weekend, when
> a lot of buildings are open to the public) - It was the Bevis Marks
> Synagogue, the oldest active one in Britain
> http://www.ottolenghi.org/bevis-marks.htm
> All the male visitors were provided with a skullcap to wear as we went
> in.
wow it looks fancy
>
> But there was a separate balcony for the women (men on the ground
> floor) - This is a Sephardic congregation, so I'd assume the one you
> attend has a different convention (or did you mean that you sat apart
> in the women's section)?
>
that usually has more to do with the orthodoxy then with it's
serphardic or ashkanazic. orthodox judaism is the 'fundamental' judaism
and they keep all the rules. reform/conservative have a more open
interpretation of the rules.
the difference between sephardic/ashkenazic is more to do with culture
(language, food, the smaller/home traditions). I'm ashkenazic and
reform.
not have a good day with words, hope this made sense
natureloverchris
SpiderHam77 wrote:
> Chris:
>
> Your story is compelling, and I do know that in school today the
> amount of teasing and abuse doesn't happen. Mainly because autism is
> reconized at such an early age, and the other kids of the clas are
> taught about it.
>
> My son who sufferes from Autism is in a mainstream class in school,
> and both him and the other students benefit from him being there. The
> other kids when they see my son is struggling with some all pitch in to
> help, and give him the direction he needs to complete a task.
it sounds like a good situation. I'm not sure it's better everywhere
but I'm glad progress is being made
>
> And my son follows their lead, and tries to interact as much as
> possible with the other children. I think complared to 20 years ago
> when we were all in school there is a huge difference in the amount of
> tolerance.
>
I hope so
> One thing though, and I'm not trying to put you down, but you as the
> person who suffers through it need to take the intiative. Hate to say
> it, but you almost need to be more aware of your surroundings, and take
> the needed steps that you don't get to the point where you need to
> stim.
>
ummm... I've been trying to think how to reply and I'm still lost.
I stim almost all the time. I stim when happy, tired, excited,
concentrating and overloaded. Part of being more myself is letting
myself stim. if I'm not disrupting other people why should I have to
stop? I don't make loud stims in settings like that and by moving a bit
away from people it was even less likely that I would 'bother' people.
it almost seems like you are saying stims are bad. I was aware of my
surroundsing, that's why I moved further from people. I was aware I was
exhausted and was not going to able to inhibit my stims. my only option
for not stimming on Rosh Hashana day would have been to not go.
I was proud of myself because I *did* take initiative to meet my needs.
for one of the first times I let myself sit where I was going to be
confortable. I let myself stim. I let myself be myself.
> And try not to be to upset with people around you if they don't
> understand whats going on. For the most part alot of people in the
> current 20yrs or above has never had to deal with an autistic person in
> mainstream society.
>
I don't expect understanding. I'm shocked if I get it.
> I thank the hard work of parents with these children in the past in
> bringing forth the publicity it has now. And we as parents with
> autistic children need to carry on the work.
>
And I thank the hard work of autistics like Larry, Joel, Terry and
Amanda
> There is no need to be in the closet. Simply come out and enjoy
> life. If you start to have an episode, then pull yourself away for a
> few min. I know it's hard to redirect on your own. But the more you
> educate other people around you about whats going on, the more you'll
> find that upon seeing you in a certain state, they will want to try and
> help.
>
I'm getting such a mixed message from this post. "don't be in the
closet" but then you talk about pulling away if I have an episode. what
do you mean by episode? if stimming is an 'episode' it seems you do
want me to live in the closet. and late me restate, I do manage my
stims. I don't do loud stims in public. I don't do things I know are
distracting (like pacing, throwing things, etc)
chris
Terry Jones
<rowerick...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>I think that was what was holding me back too. Realising fear
>is such a good way of getting past it. Once you realise how it
>holds you back, you can let go of it and learn to be yourself.
As long as it *is* genuinely fear that's holding you back - and not
simply assuming that, based on NT norms and expectations.
There are many other reasons for avoiding things - That you don't
actually get much worthwhile out of them, or that the "costs" are
usually too high, or that you've learned that however hard you try you
can't realistically cope with them.
None of these are the result of "fear", even though the psychs (and
amateurs) tend to use terms like "phobia" - just because *they* can't
imagine anyone not liking / being able to do these things.
That's why I tend to be rather skeptical about diagnoses like "social
phobia" - It may be a genuine phobia in some cases, but (especially,
though not exclusively, with autistics), the alternative reasons
should be looked before deciding that it *must* be an exaggerated and
irrational avoidance.
Terry
Hylander
natureloverchris wrote:
> I think I've been scolded/questioned enough about 'isolating' myself
> that I don't let myself do it. I'm quite comfortable being alone much
> of the time but people seem to not like it.
Other people don't seem to like being alone themselves or you being
alone?
> earlier this month with the
> beginning of school I started remembering the earlier years of school.
> I knew I blocked it out. I'd tried in the past to remember with no
> success. This time I wasn't trying to remember and it came back. One of
> my memories is playing quite happily away from the other kids at the
> bus stop. I remember them noticing me alone and throwing things at me.
> I was a target.
That happened to me too. I had very hard chunks of ice. (they squeezed
the snowballs very hard before throwing them. I had wind knocked out of
me. I also had a concussion because a kid actually threw a hammer at my
head and they had to watch me at night to make sure I didn't stop
breathing or get racoon eyes or showed other signs of injury (like
curled wrists and straight ankles) or other signs of "delirium".
(IIRC). I've also been pile driven before and that wasn't fun.
>
> last night at Rosh Hashanah services I sat way off to the side. I was
> towards the front but I was the only person in that section and being
> towards the front it was obvious. it was far enough off to the side
> people didn't want to sit there I guess? it seems people want to bunch
> together (weird). I could fidget without disrupting anyone and had less
> people noise and contact. This morning I sat a bit more to the middle -
> old habits, must not stand out. I wasn't comfortable. it was hard to
> follow the services, very overloading. After a bit I move to my
> isolated spot and services were better. I was stimming like mad and
> didn't stop myself.
Sounds like me at work earlier today.
> a bit ago at work my work group went on a field trip. we spent a lot of
> time in the car. when we were out we were going as a group to check out
> different sites. I let myself wander away from them at times. I let
> myself go silent. And then at lunch I sat apart. my coworker/friend
> asked if I was taking a break, instead of making up an excuse for my
> isolation (which is what I would have done in the past) I simply said
> yes. Of course it helped that she asked what she did. we've talked
> about my issues and this time she got it :)
(ah, answer to earlier question is that people are uncomfortable with
you being alone then...perhaps out of "projection" of their
feelings/false sympathy.).
>
> I'm still mostly 'in the closet' about myself.
Know how that goes. I'm almost to the point of echolalic association
between you and various closets though ;). Is Snoopy's open? :D
> the reality is I was
> abused at home, at school and in my neighborhood in large part because
> of my autism.
Sadly, I was just judged oddly and at times for how staunch my parents
were in making me think certain ways. I didn't know better because no
one told me any better for example to not tell all the kids who brought
coffee in thermoses at school that they couldn't drink them. Some
things I feel were incomplete teaching and explanations.
My friend Jim went through a period where his parents pretty much
didn't think he could do anything so they didn't teach him anything. It
was up to me and other family to teach him basic things like tying
shoes. He was very very grateful for being taught by his inlaws and
things like "how to swim"/survive in water etc etc. (he also shows bad
signs of Cushings Syndrome (and I have a slight bit of it myself) so it
was hard for him) He also is diabetic and his parents never really took
care of that either. They just treated him like a special kid that all
they needed to do was diaper and feed him. Some autistics do not get
the smartest of families. Mine wasn't all that smart either except
basic street smarts. My father didn't even have a diploma. My mother
however had a college degree and pushed me to get mine and even used
her "perseverations" to teach me. (ie: spelling and reading certain
books that she liked)
> remembering the earlier years of school has been
> horrible,
Pretty bad here too. I don't know if it would be better to have a label
or not in school ... seems I know enough people on both sides of the
childhood diagnosis fence that it was bad childhood either way. I do
think a label is better but that's perhaps because I believe the grass
might be greener on the other side.
> but maybe it's letting me find myself too. I've lived with
> fear so long, I never realized I was afraid. I didn't realize how I
> consistently 'covered' for my difference because it was such an
> automatic response. I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down
> those gaurds, but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my
> autistic self.
As one person I know would say "Being myself is not "regressing"". I do
know some people who will get downright mean if you stim in public when
you didn't before so I basically have no new or visible stims since
I've been without a label so long that I've got my mask ingrained in
me. I do however have some slow "naturalizations" (for myself) that are
not regressing but they are becoming more and more a part of me as life
goes on.
> if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can
> finally learn to like her
I think I already do....personally speaking. I hope you do too.
Wherever you are at along the journey, you need to accept yourself for
who you are and your circumstances. I often think I could do things
better if I could only go back but I don't really know that I could do
much more than what I did having sometimes revisited a few
opportunities.
The V person
"natureloverchris" wrote :
>
> SpiderHam77 wrote:
>> There is no need to be in the closet. Simply come out and enjoy
>> life. If you start to have an episode, then pull yourself away for a
>> few min. I know it's hard to redirect on your own. But the more you
>> educate other people around you about whats going on, the more you'll
>> find that upon seeing you in a certain state, they will want to try and
>> help.
Chris wrote:
> I'm getting such a mixed message from this post. "don't be in the
> closet" but then you talk about pulling away if I have an episode. what
> do you mean by episode? if stimming is an 'episode' it seems you do
> want me to live in the closet. and late me restate, I do manage my
> stims. I don't do loud stims in public. I don't do things I know are
> distracting (like pacing, throwing things, etc)
>
> chris
I guess I should have snipped a bit but Oh well...
I was happily amused when I saw Vincent the other day
doing a stim and it is a stim I have never seen him do before
and it is one of my Stims,,,,, how strange in a way,,, but then I was also
amused to find out in this last year that my younger brother "who is also
named Vince" has the same stim as me... all these years and I didn't know
that! :) Too cool! Runs in the Family I guess,,,,,
About autistics when they get older and kids in general these days,
well not alot has changed especially for the kids 11 and up,,, kids still
get called stupid or retarded from other kids at school...
As evidenced in just these few first weeks of school,,
Vincent was called stupid by some girl in his math class and my daughter
was called retarded by some girl in her English class...
and we have gone through the ringer this month with counselors and a lot of
lip service to the kids real concerns... new school ,, new kids and a little
rougher atmosphere not only in kids attitudes but some teachers too,,,,,
this is not a new phenomenon but one that takes place in many areas....
Anyway,, self advocating comes to mind that is learned by bits and pieces
,,,,, I took too many years to get a voice but now I have one
V.
The V person
"Hylander" <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128551610.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> natureloverchris wrote:
>
>> I think I've been scolded/questioned enough about 'isolating' myself
>> that I don't let myself do it. I'm quite comfortable being alone much
>> of the time but people seem to not like it.
>
> Other people don't seem to like being alone themselves or you being
> alone?
>
>> earlier this month with the
>> beginning of school I started remembering the earlier years of school.
>> I knew I blocked it out. I'd tried in the past to remember with no
>> success. This time I wasn't trying to remember and it came back. One of
>> my memories is playing quite happily away from the other kids at the
>> bus stop. I remember them noticing me alone and throwing things at me.
>> I was a target.
>
> That happened to me too. I had very hard chunks of ice. (they squeezed
> the snowballs very hard before throwing them. I had wind knocked out of
> me. I also had a concussion because a kid actually threw a hammer at my
> head and they had to watch me at night to make sure I didn't stop
> breathing or get racoon eyes or showed other signs of injury (like
> curled wrists and straight ankles) or other signs of "delirium".
> (IIRC). I've also been pile driven before and that wasn't fun.
Ive had similar experiences too :) hit over the head when I was three
with a glass milk container,,,, been hit with a golf club by the girl down
the street when I was about 8 I think,,,,, I got hit in the hall at jr. high
school by a girl on my way to class "she hit me in the face,,, she thought I
was "one of those smart kids who thought I was better than her and that was
I guess a bulls eye in itself" thing is I wasn't even aware of any of what
she was up to nor did I ever even talk to her as she wasn't in any of my
classes"
and my brother told me to smell his feet and I did and I was 16 at the
time,,, but that was more funny than anything else cause I didn't think or
question what he said.... :)
V.
Jeremy Reece
> I feel this so much, and I'm glad you put it into words for me,
> because as silly as it sounds, there seem to be so many parts
> of myself that I have problems with, and they're as simple as
> this to describe, but I can never do it until someone else
> comes up with the right words for me...
>
> So thankyou for that.
Ditto, Chris :)
> >> I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down those guards,
> >> but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my autistic self.
> >> if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can finally learn
> >> to like her
>
> That's what I aim for. I hope you achieve your goal :)
The guards I have are unbeliveably strong. It's a real relationship
killer, I've found :(
The more a person tries to help me through them, the more forcefully I
resist (subconciously, automatically, even though I tried not to).
Emotional resistance, even physical resistance if I'm pushed far
enough. I don't know how I'll ever get through it :/
> I've been trying a lot more to figure myself out lately,
> and despite what appears to be quite a lot of confidence in
> conversation, I think it's apparent from my constant inability
> to commit to anything that I'm not a particularly confident
> person.
>
> I can imagine Robin thinking that's a stupid reason to define
> yourself as "under-confident", but I'll sneak around that by
> saying it's not the only reason, but the best example I could
> think of :)
Sounds like a pretty good reason to me. Where is Robin, anyway?
> Confidence is a scarecrow for bullies.
Bloody non-literal phrases... Had to think that one through very
carefully before I understood it :) You're right though.
> > Jeremy (who has those automatic defenses and cover stories too)
>
> Sounds like the KGB :)
It's a cold, bright day in April...
(Name that game, you know you want to...)
Jeremy
Rowe Rickenbacker
> Rowe Rickenbacker wrote:
>
>> I think that was what was holding me back too. Realising fear is
>> such a good way of getting past it. Once you realise how it holds
>> you back, you can let go of it and learn to be yourself.
>
> As long as it *is* genuinely fear that's holding you back - and not
> simply assuming that, based on NT norms and expectations.
Not exactly. I mean, there are all sorts of memes and folklore, but
I spent the *majority* of my time observing and contemplating people
when I was younger (not exactly sure about "now", because I can only
say for sure what I was thinking in hindsight!) but there were two
issues related to confidence that I had problems with:
A) I had no real sense of worth amongst other people, because there
were a lot of protocols and games that I misunderstood, so I ended
up only hearing comments and criticism, and ignoring any the veiled
positive stuff in them. For a huge portion of my life, my parents,
teachers, and therapists were completely at a loss to explain what
was going on with me, and so when they said they didn't *know* if
something was good or bad, I took that to mean it was bad.
B) Basically, I find it better to assume the worst scenario, and
then use evidence to disprove the worst ones until it gets better,
because erring on the side of caution is rarely a bad thing.
But, of course, it does absolutely nothing for your confidence.
C) Oh, and I didn't know how to appear confident when I was.
> There are many other reasons for avoiding things
It wasn't that I was *avoiding* things, but that I had a complete
lack of expression and charisma while doing them. I had a very low
sense of self-worth, and was very self-conscious. I'm still very
self-conscious, but I have developed a delightful way of ignoring
the voices that tell me what other people do/will think of me :)
> That you don't actually get much worthwhile out of them, or that the
> "costs" are usually too high, or that you've learned that however
> hard you try you can't realistically cope with them.
Oh definitely. And this was the biggest reason I always played up
before/during PE sessions in primary school. Each time, I was told
what behavior was expected of me, but I had low muscle tone that
was causing me prompt and nasty discomfort so it was much more,
well, *logical* for me to do something that would cause the teacher
to "punish" me by taking me out of the lesson... because of course
"all kids love to play games and run around".
> None of these are the result of "fear"
Ah... but Britons are especially vulnerable to something like this.
We're afraid of humiliation. The tiniest flaw exposed about us is
embarassment that taints us, and others will grind against it like
sandpaper against the rough and fragmented areas of our lives until
they are made smooth again. Some of this is merely perception, but
anyone who is in a regular social envionment, unless very lucky,
will know that there are more than enough people to "enforce" this
way and perception of living.
But it is, naturally at least, a way of maintaining heirarchy and
exerting dominance. Learn to fence, and you can dance with your
provocateur, so that they can fulfill their drive to force their
way into acceptance, and you are not only unharmed, but also seen
as having a position of respect and acceptance at the same time.
Very few people dance to the same beat, and learning to adapt to
that is one of the hardest things, but once you learn to respond
to others in a way that is acceptable to them, you can communicate
yourself and anything you need/want, and they will listen because
a protocol has been developed. There will always be fools that just
want to provoke or hurt, but ignore the aggressive ones, and smile
and nod at the jokers, and they are impotent.
That is my protocol for communicating with professionals and coworkers.
> That's why I tend to be rather skeptical about diagnoses like "social
> phobia" - It may be a genuine phobia in some cases, but (especially,
> though not exclusively, with autistics), the alternative reasons
> should be looked before deciding that it *must* be an exaggerated and
> irrational avoidance.
Mm, but that is "social phobia". A lack of confidence isn't social
phobia in the same way having no license isn't a driving phobia.
You can't be expected to dance this dance when you have two left
feet, but sometimes it's possible to learn and sometimes it isn't.
If it is possible to learn, a lack of interest shouldn't be seen
as a *fear*, because in "acting" confident and "being" social -
a lack of interest is often the biggest reason Aspies don't learn.
For me, it's a perseveration, and an interest I can't put down,
but I'll never assume someone *can* learn a skill, in the same way
I'll never assume they're interested, or even *fear* the activity.
Having said that, I'm not a good teacher.
Rowe Rickenbacker
>>>> I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down those
>>>> guards,
>
> The guards I have are unbeliveably strong. It's a real relationship
> killer, I've found :(
Aye. My relationship history is a collection
of Shakespeare plays, complete with comedy,
trajedy, and the hero escaping a sticky
situation by dressing up as a woman ;-)
> The more a person tries to help me through them, the more forcefully
> I resist (subconciously, automatically, even though I tried not to).
> Emotional resistance, even physical resistance if I'm pushed far
> enough. I don't know how I'll ever get through it :/
Yeah... I've felt like that more times than
I can count. I've never got around it, and
whenever I become overloaded the only place
I don't shut people out is in here. I can't
explain that, except this is my SH (to Chris) :)
> Where is Robin, anyway?
Well, he posted a couple of things yesterday,
but I don't know where/what he's doing there :)
>> Confidence is a scarecrow for bullies.
>
> Bloody non-literal phrases... Had to think that one through very
> carefully before I understood it :) You're right though.
I like throwing in non-literal one-liners,
like a steak in the shark enclosure :)
>>> Jeremy (who has those automatic defenses and cover stories too)
>>
>> Sounds like the KGB :)
>
> It's a cold, bright day in April...
and the clocks were striking thirteen? :)
womby
On 4-Oct-2005, "natureloverchris" <NLC...@centurytel.net> wrote:
Nice post. I see new thoughts here, probably meaning more progress
for you in accomodating life. Looking forward to reading more.
Jeremy Reece
> Jeremy Reece wrote:
> > killer, I've found :(
>
> Aye. My relationship history is a collection
> of Shakespeare plays, complete with comedy,
> trajedy, and the hero escaping a sticky
> situation by dressing up as a woman ;-)
lol... I don't have a collection, only one (who's name you know, obv).
Retrospectively viewed, the way 'I' systematically destroyed it, it's
not suprising it ended the way it did :(
> > The more a person tries to help me through them, the more forcefully
> > I resist (subconciously, automatically, even though I tried not to).
> > Emotional resistance, even physical resistance if I'm pushed far
> > enough. I don't know how I'll ever get through it :/
>
> Yeah... I've felt like that more times than
> I can count. I've never got around it, and
> whenever I become overloaded the only place
> I don't shut people out is in here. I can't
> explain that, except this is my SH (to Chris) :)
Yeah, me too. This group is my escape in so many ways...
> > Where is Robin, anyway?
>
> Well, he posted a couple of things yesterday,
> but I don't know where/what he's doing there :)
Oh, I didn't see them. Bloody Google makes it so difficult to follow
everything. <looking>
> > Bloody non-literal phrases... Had to think that one through very
> > carefully before I understood it :) You're right though.
>
> I like throwing in non-literal one-liners,
> like a steak in the shark enclosure :)
Oi! ....... Oh, yeah... ;)
> >> Sounds like the KGB :)
> >
> > It's a cold, bright day in April...
>
> and the clocks were striking thirteen? :)
No, -1.
Jeremy
tsr3
and it was due to the fact that I was "different" and "withdrawn". The
harrassment was worst in 7th grade (when I changed schools 3/4 of the
way through the year), and 9th (first year of high school--high point
of this grade was that someone scrawled obscenities all over my locker
with bold black marker. This kept up for weeks. My parents, teachers,
and school administrators were worthless in helping me deal with the
problem. Got to the point every time I approached my locker, the other
kids in the vicinity would just turn around and stare at me.
I could understand this shabby treatment if I had been a malicious
gossip, or had tried to steal someone's boyfriend, or been an obnoxious
loudmouth. But I didn't do anything to anyone--I just tried to blend
into the woodwork most of the time.
So much of time, I think the kids were trying to get a "reaction" out
of me by being abusive.
I've been thinking an awful lot recently about the crap I went through
in school, and getting angry all over again. I'm getting to the point
I don't want anything to do with people. How do you all handle these
memories without letting them destroy your present emotional
well-being?
--Best regards--r3
The V person
"tsr3" <r3-...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1128706983.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hello r3
I think for me maybe just time sort of watered down any emotional
response to memories... I had more current crap always
getting in the way anyway.
I think too that I always had in the back of my mind that the people who
did that kind of stuff were some kind of lesser humans may have helped
too,,,,, the poor things couldn't help their selfs being freakin Cretins!
:-)
V.
The autist formerly known as
I suppose Terry does.
--
þT
L'autisme c'est moi
"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"
"tsr3" <r3-...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1128706983.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Terry Jones
<o...@ym.andius> wrote:
>Does anyone remember the TSR 2
>
>I suppose Terry does.
Terminate & Stay Resident (in DOS), TSR Games (D&D), The something
something? Or the Triumph car?
Terry
natureloverchris
Hylander wrote:
> natureloverchris wrote:
>
> > I think I've been scolded/questioned enough about 'isolating' myself
> > that I don't let myself do it. I'm quite comfortable being alone much
> > of the time but people seem to not like it.
>
> Other people don't seem to like being alone themselves or you being
> alone?
"why are you sitting over there all by yourself' and questions like
that have been ingrained in my head
>
> > earlier this month with the
> > beginning of school I started remembering the earlier years of school.
> > I knew I blocked it out. I'd tried in the past to remember with no
> > success. This time I wasn't trying to remember and it came back. One of
> > my memories is playing quite happily away from the other kids at the
> > bus stop. I remember them noticing me alone and throwing things at me.
> > I was a target.
>
> That happened to me too. I had very hard chunks of ice. (they squeezed
> the snowballs very hard before throwing them. I had wind knocked out of
> me. I also had a concussion because a kid actually threw a hammer at my
> head and they had to watch me at night to make sure I didn't stop
> breathing or get racoon eyes or showed other signs of injury (like
> curled wrists and straight ankles) or other signs of "delirium".
> (IIRC). I've also been pile driven before and that wasn't fun.
:(
>
> > a bit ago at work my work group went on a field trip. we spent a lot of
> > time in the car. when we were out we were going as a group to check out
> > different sites. I let myself wander away from them at times. I let
> > myself go silent. And then at lunch I sat apart. my coworker/friend
> > asked if I was taking a break, instead of making up an excuse for my
> > isolation (which is what I would have done in the past) I simply said
> > yes. Of course it helped that she asked what she did. we've talked
> > about my issues and this time she got it :)
>
> (ah, answer to earlier question is that people are uncomfortable with
> you being alone then...perhaps out of "projection" of their
> feelings/false sympathy.).
yes... but, I've also gotten alot of "don't you like me/us" "are you
mad at us" if I separate myself from a group
>
> >
> > I'm still mostly 'in the closet' about myself.
>
> Know how that goes. I'm almost to the point of echolalic association
> between you and various closets though ;). Is Snoopy's open? :D
>
hmm... I wonder where the Keeper is?
> > the reality is I was
> > abused at home, at school and in my neighborhood in large part because
> > of my autism.
>
sing but they are becoming more and more a part of me as life
> goes on.
>
> > if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can
> > finally learn to like her
>
> I think I already do....personally speaking. I hope you do too.
> Wherever you are at along the journey, you need to accept yourself for
> who you are and your circumstances. I often think I could do things
> better if I could only go back but I don't really know that I could do
> much more than what I did having sometimes revisited a few
> opportunities.
I don't want to go back exactly. I don't think that would change much.
bleh
natureloverchris
Jeremy Reece wrote:
> Rowe Rickenbacker wrote:
> > I feel this so much, and I'm glad you put it into words for me,
> > because as silly as it sounds, there seem to be so many parts
> > of myself that I have problems with, and they're as simple as
> > this to describe, but I can never do it until someone else
> > comes up with the right words for me...
> >
> > So thankyou for that.
>
> Ditto, Chris :)
sheesh!
>
> > >> I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully let down those guards,
> > >> but slowly, bit by bit I'm learning to be more of my autistic self.
> > >> if I can take that person out of hiding, maybe I can finally learn
> > >> to like her
> >
> > That's what I aim for. I hope you achieve your goal :)
>
> The guards I have are unbeliveably strong. It's a real relationship
> killer, I've found :(
>
that's for sure!
> The more a person tries to help me through them, the more forcefully I
> resist (subconciously, automatically, even though I tried not to).
> Emotional resistance, even physical resistance if I'm pushed far
> enough. I don't know how I'll ever get through it :/
>
I'm not sure you ever get completely through it. maybe it's like coping
with some of the effects of disability, you find work arounds
kev talked about that once, said it much better
natureloverchris
Rowe Rickenbacker wrote:
> Jeremy Reece wrote:
>
>
> I can count. I've never got around it, and
> whenever I become overloaded the only place
> I don't shut people out is in here. I can't
> explain that, except this is my SH (to Chris) :)
>
:)
> > Where is Robin, anyway?
>
> Well, he posted a couple of things yesterday,
> but I don't know where/what he's doing there :)
>
> >> Confidence is a scarecrow for bullies.
> >
> > Bloody non-literal phrases... Had to think that one through very
> > carefully before I understood it :) You're right though.
>
> I like throwing in non-literal one-liners,
> like a steak in the shark enclosure :)
>
> >>> Jeremy (who has those automatic defenses and cover stories too)
> >>
> >> Sounds like the KGB :)
> >
> > It's a cold, bright day in April...
>
> and the clocks were striking thirteen? :)
>
sheesh! you people make no sense
natureloverchris
tsr3 wrote:
> I had problems all throughout school (kindergarden through 10th grade),
> and it was due to the fact that I was "different" and "withdrawn". The
> harrassment was worst in 7th grade (when I changed schools 3/4 of the
> way through the year), and 9th (first year of high school--high point
> of this grade was that someone scrawled obscenities all over my locker
> with bold black marker. This kept up for weeks. My parents, teachers,
> and school administrators were worthless in helping me deal with the
> problem. Got to the point every time I approached my locker, the other
> kids in the vicinity would just turn around and stare at me.
>
> I could understand this shabby treatment if I had been a malicious
> gossip, or had tried to steal someone's boyfriend, or been an obnoxious
> loudmouth. But I didn't do anything to anyone--I just tried to blend
> into the woodwork most of the time.
which is why I decided that it was just me. It must be something
inherently wrong with me, because I was so bullied at home and at
school.
>
> So much of time, I think the kids were trying to get a "reaction" out
> of me by being abusive.
>
oh yeah.
> I've been thinking an awful lot recently about the crap I went through
> in school, and getting angry all over again. I'm getting to the point
> I don't want anything to do with people. How do you all handle these
> memories without letting them destroy your present emotional
> well-being?
>
well... I can't give a short answer to that. my emotional well being is
already pretty screwed up. I think your new? I've been severly
depressed for the past 4 years. I've been deep into self-destructive
behavior (self-injury, overdoses, eating disorder) and suicidal. I
think sometime in that time I moved from partial PTSD to full-blown
PTSD. it's not just memories from school bullying. my family was
abusive and there was a lot of mental health issues within my family.
I've also had 4 friends die (I'm 35) and 2 were by suicide
even if the memories weren't on the surface they were destroying me.
Now when I see a school bus and that night I feel like self-destructing
I can recognize why. it doesn't 'come out of nowhere anymore' I have a
good psychiatrist (I'm lucky).
I have 'copes' I do when the memories get overwhelming. This weekend
has been bad for me, my thoughts are full of self-destruction, but I've
been working through my copes - watching nature videos, playing with my
pets, dog park. etc. It doesn't make the memories go away, but it keeps
them from overwhelming me.
I'm sloooooooooowly learning how to open up and let friends talk to me.
If you'd asked me even a year ago, I'd say talking to friends when
things are bad doesn't really help. But amazingly enough it does. It's
like the copes, it doesn't make stuff go away. it doesn't 'solve'
things, but it makes it more managable. it can make it so the memories
aren't the only thing in my head
I do a lot of writing. I 'free write' sometimes just to get it out in a
non-harmful way. And I'm working at righting about the bad memories and
then trying to connect it to other memories so it's less powerful. so I
wrote about my experiences on the school bus, but I worked at bringing
up all school bus memories. I found some good memories. I found some
neutral memories.
it's very hard. sometimes the memories do become too powerful and it's
harmful. sometimes the only thing you can wait it out. it's a process
with many many steps. it's mostly a matter of achieving balance. the
memories and the feelings are still there, but you can have other
memories and feelings too. when I wrote about the school bus, I
remembered that I used to purposely get off at the wrong stop so I
could have a nice long walk home. I loved those walks. And there was a
couple dogs who would walk with me. Happy memories those are.
natureloverchris
womby wrote:
> On 4-Oct-2005, "natureloverchris" <NLC...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> Nice post. I see new thoughts here, probably meaning more progress
> for you in accomodating life. Looking forward to reading more.
>
progress.
I probably shouldn't try to measure progress during the bad times.
thanks womby you always make me think
womby
And likewise. Actually, that post had a calming effect on me as I was
silently ranting about not being able to clean my own fine mess.
Your developments appear similar to glimmers I see about my own
possible developments.
womby
On 7-Oct-2005, "tsr3" <r3-...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I had problems all throughout school (kindergarden through 10th grade),
> and it was due to the fact that I was "different" and "withdrawn". The
> harrassment was worst in 7th grade (when I changed schools 3/4 of the
> way through the year), and 9th (first year of high school--high point
> of this grade was that someone scrawled obscenities all over my locker
> with bold black marker. This kept up for weeks. My parents, teachers,
> and school administrators were worthless in helping me deal with the
> problem. Got to the point every time I approached my locker, the other
> kids in the vicinity would just turn around and stare at me.
>
> I could understand this shabby treatment if I had been a malicious
> gossip, or had tried to steal someone's boyfriend, or been an obnoxious
> loudmouth. But I didn't do anything to anyone--I just tried to blend
> into the woodwork most of the time.
>
> So much of time, I think the kids were trying to get a "reaction" out
> of me by being abusive.
>
Yep. A safe target that had no risk of successful, painful retaliation.
>
> I've been thinking an awful lot recently about the crap I went through
> in school, and getting angry all over again. I'm getting to the point
> I don't want anything to do with people. How do you all handle these
> memories without letting them destroy your present emotional
> well-being?
>
Devalue their importance to your current life. I usually chant "stay alive"
over and over when the memories are a bit too intrusive.
Reserve their use soley as personal life proofs that people can truly be as
malignent
as portrayed in the media, while bystanders are wringing their hands
asking, "how can this be possible?".
>
> --Best regards--r3
tsr3
Like you, I did believe it was my fault (almost like the way an abused
spouse feels). I kept thinking, "Jeez--all these kids can't be
wrong--there must be something horribly wrong with me". I developed a
deep sense of shame about myself--and I've been trying to dislodge this
feeling for many years now.
Like you, I also used to get off that damn school bus early, and I also
loved the walks home. And pets--my dog Lori was just wonderful.
I'm determined that whenever I start brooding about junk from my past I
can never change, I will pet my cats, go for a walk, sit outside and
look at the trees, just try to be thankful for everything that is going
right in my life. --r3
tsr3
tsr3
folks that are different. Thank you for your perspective.--r3
The autist formerly known as
--
şT
L'autisme c'est moi
"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"
"Philip W Lee" <phil(at)lee(hyphen)family(dot)me(dot)uk> wrote in message
news:ioofk11vv786k3ap2...@4ax.com...
> Terry Jones <terry...@beeb.net> considered Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:06:21
> +0100 the perfect time to write:
Hylander
Do you remember an old program that ran in DOS called "Sidekick"? or
"Saber Menu"? It was in many ways my precursor to "Windows".
Terry Jones
wrote:
>> Terminate & Stay Resident (in DOS)
>
>Do you remember an old program that ran in DOS called "Sidekick"? or
>"Saber Menu"? It was in many ways my precursor to "Windows".
I used to use "Sidekick", found it quite useful. And a menu prog,
forget which one it was though.
Terry
The autist formerly known as
The original Ventura Publisher migrated from MAC to GEM and that could do
things quark could not even imagine of.
Then Corel got hold of it and it was no longer a serios industry contender
any more than wordstar (remember it?)
--
şT
L'autisme c'est moi
"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"
"Terry Jones" <terry...@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:ibkel1le20oqle0k8...@4ax.com...
Terry Jones
<o...@ym.andius> wrote:
>Does anyone remember GEM?
Yes, though I haven't used it - I did briefly get to try an Apple
Lisa, which was a real slug. The graphics were too demanding for the
processing capability.
Terry
womby
On 17-Oct-2005, "tsr3" <r3-...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:53:14 +0000 (UTC)
> In-Reply-To: <CVA2f.1176$ny2...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>
> User-Agent: G2/0.2
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> posting-account=0yAuMA0AAAAVc2M2cMDggCVgPKEHMELR
> Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com alt.support.autism:378341
>
> Womby--thank you for your suggestion--I will try that mantra. --r3
wot? that was useful? cool!!!