Newsgroup Newbie Wondering About Autism and Dating
N?ant Humain
I made one post here earlier, but this can be considered my
introduction. I am a 19-year-old college student who's only been
diagnosed with an autism-spectrum disorder--they didn't bother to
distinguish it from Asperger's. I probably won't be a frequent poster,
but I will post occasionally--when I'm feeling particularly
autisticized. And, yes, "Neant Humain" is French: It means "Nothing
Human," which is how I feel sometimes.
One thing I've already discovered while browsing this newsgroup is the
Autistic Spectrum Code (modeled after the Geek Code, I assume). I know
it's a pretty simplistic, even trite way to introduce myself, but here
is my autististic spectrum code:
{ AS! d- s: a--- c+++ p+ t@ f++ S+ p(++) e+>++ h-->+ r-->+ c+ i P+
m+>++ M }
As is now known, I'm a young college student, and so that means I have
more than academics on my mind. As my autistic code says, I've never
technically been on a date before; and, as a college student, I've
been opening myself up to new opportunities. I've found I'm at a
profound disadvantage at getting to know women. In high school, I
never flirted or even thought I could pull something like that off.
Now, I don't want old fears to stand in my way. Unfortunately, I think
it shows I haven't done this before.
I have found it easier to talk to women the more I talk to them.
Flirting is especially tricky because it's probably the most nuanced
form of conversation around. Apparently, I'm not that horrible at
flirting because I have been able to talk with someone on several
occasions, but I think she was being forgiving because I seemed so
nice. She's accepted a date, but I haven't heard back from her since.
I can always hope for a second chance, I guess. I was really starting
to like her too, but I guess she had second thoughts.
Anyway, what have other autistic people's experiences been? It must be
possible for someone like me to find love. And also, what is the best
way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
than just different and that there's a name for it too? It would seem
pretty disingenuous to tell someone you have Asperber's the day after
they marry you, but you wouldn't want to scare someone off before they
got to know you as a person and not a so-called disorder.
growi...@hotmail.com
> As is now known, I'm a young college student, and so that means I have
> more than academics on my mind. As my autistic code says, I've never
> technically been on a date before; and, as a college student, I've
> been opening myself up to new opportunities. I've found I'm at a
> profound disadvantage at getting to know women. In high school, I
> never flirted or even thought I could pull something like that off.
> Now, I don't want old fears to stand in my way. Unfortunately, I think
> it shows I haven't done this before.
I don't have many ideas here. I don't date, don't want to be married,
and don't even think about women in that way. It's made a lot of things
a lot easier.
But I know not everyone wants to do that. What I've seen that's worked:
- Try not to give off "desperate" vibes. "Desperate" is considered very
unattractive by most women (including most AC women, from what I've seen)
- Learn to enjoy being single, enjoy life in your current circumstances.
Strangely, that seems to make it easier to find women.
- Don't consider every woman you talk with to be a potential date and
long-term partner. Most will not be. Be friends with them. If you are
friends with a woman, she'll probably have other female friends you will
meet. The more females you meet, the more chance of finding one that is
attracted to you and who you are attracted to. Women don't like being
only potential sex objects.
I do hope you find someone, though.
If you can manage to ask women out, you are actually going to be better
at this then I ever was.
> Anyway, what have other autistic people's experiences been? It must be
> possible for someone like me to find love. And also, what is the best
> way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
> than just different and that there's a name for it too? It would seem
> pretty disingenuous to tell someone you have Asperber's the day after
> they marry you, but you wouldn't want to scare someone off before they
> got to know you as a person and not a so-called disorder.
I don't know on this. I tend to tell people after I've known them for
a year or more. But as time goes on, I'm telling more people that I've
known less time (mainly because I think things aren't going to get
better for autistics from a human rights standpoint until people know
we exist).
--
Joel
Tom Staight
>>possible for someone like me to find love. And also, what is the best
>>way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
>>than just different and that there's a name for it too? It would seem
>>pretty disingenuous to tell someone you have Asperber's the day after
>>they marry you, but you wouldn't want to scare someone off before they
>>got to know you as a person and not a so-called disorder.
>
> I don't know on this. I tend to tell people after I've known them for
> a year or more. But as time goes on, I'm telling more people that I've
> known less time (mainly because I think things aren't going to get
> better for autistics from a human rights standpoint until people know
> we exist).
I tend to just tell people I've got problems recognising emotions and
hints, so to try and make themselves a bit clearer. Of course, that only
needs to be done if you can't understand them. I just jokingly refer to
my friends as a retard =D If I'm going to see someone about my
"problems", I tend to tell my friends I'm going to see a special person
because I'm more special than them - and they think it's funny, but they
get it. I guess you just work out a way that works best for you...
In telling new people, it's better to slip it into conversation, as in
somehow talk about a problem you've got, and then say that it's called
autism (or something along those lines). Good luck =)
Sean with the Big Feet
When I was 18, I went with an evil bitch for about a year. She took
advantage of what I didn't realise at the time - my apparent gullability
and social naivity. I only found out about Asperger's a few years later
and it answered a lot of questions.
At the time, I had no reason (I thought) not to trust her. She manipulated
me and made a complete fool of me.
My problem, like many Auties/Aspies is socialising and when I find I can
get on with one or two people I can become dependent on them, which doesn't
help.
A while after getting rid of her I became very friendly with a girl who I
am still friends with (I have looked after her and her husbands kid :-) My
problem then was I couldn't tell the difference between a girl being
friends and wanting to be more. To paraphrase Marc Segar - just because a
girl smiles at you, don't conclude she wants to have your children.
A few other failed relationships happened, both of which are significant.
One was a girl who's Aspie brother figured me out *thank God*. There was a
good reason for me dating her at the time, even though it did not work out.
Now I'm engaged to an Aspie girl I met via the web. I gave up trying to do
social things. If you try to live according to NT rules (lots of sex,
drugs and rock and roll) you'll make a fool of yourself and live to regret
a lot of things.
At this stage, myself and my gf met and initially were friends, neither of
us trying for, or looking for, any more. I had few close friends in the
area (having recently moved house) and she had few, having returned home
from uni. So we both became accustomed to the other being there, and we
lived happily ever after.
It happened when neither of us were looking for it. God brought us
together at the right time. This is how the best relationships happen. If
you meet people out on a Friday night, 80%+ want one thing usually (non-
commital sex) with a relationship being very secondary on their shopping
list. I don't like that - it's not healthy. If in the height of passion,
a girl tells you "I love you" or whatever, as Aspies we are more likely to
believe it literally.
hth
Tom Staight
> social things. If you try to live according to NT rules (lots of sex,
> drugs and rock and roll) you'll make a fool of yourself and live to regret
> a lot of things.
If only I could meet an Aspiegirl and live happily ever after! =( I am
glad of the advice your story contained, although (either luckily or
unluckily I am not sure) I learned how easily you can get screwed by
other people at a very early age (8+ years ago) and was also diagnosed a
few years ago.
I understand Neant Humain's worries about dating, but it is true -
relationships can be incredibly nervewracking when you have no idea how
to assess certain situations and cannot react to hints and suggestions
that could actually mean a dozen things. I really think my ideal partner
would be another Aspie, but with the amount of Aspieguys a huge amount
higher than Aspiegirls, I will check out being asexual for a while
longer =) I'm not looking very hard.
All I can suggest is experience - of people, relationships, and dates.
And don't *look* for dates when talking to girls because then every
other thing they say could have a hint in about them wanting you. It's
bad. At one point I thought one of my teachers had a crush on me because
I did that. Thank god I didn't act on it =P
Tom
Gareeth
>
> If only I could meet an Aspiegirl and live happily ever after!
I am not sure it works that way. I did "date" a fellow autis guy I met on
the net for several years but dealing with him in person no matter hwo sweet
he was was still overwhelming for me. I have now thanks to irc watched
several pairing of this sort proceed all the way to cohabitation and
reproduction but I think it is still often a struggle all around not really
a happily ever after scenario. Perhaps NT marriages are struggles too
though.
I do have some interest in human companionship of the opposite sex but that
interest seems to be fleeting. I must have been in soem sort of hormonal
overdrive for the first wweek of my Christmas vacation because I mentioned
hunting down a man often enough to tick my brother off. Now I am back to my
usual self liking the relatively uncomplicated companionship of dog, cat and
computer.
Gareeth
Matthames
Tom Staight wrote:
>
> If only I could meet an Aspiegirl and live happily ever after!
I might be getting close to something like that myself. At the moment I am
building a relationship which I am hoping would work. I need to pluck up the
courage to ask her out. This has been a curse I have been under for the past
15 years. This curse saps all courage I have when asking out a girl on a
date. No matter what I do it all goes wrong because I turn into a quivering
wreck and nerves just make the words sit in my mind and never pass my lips.
All this failiure has taken its toll on me. I used to be rather bold and
could mold some girls like putty in my hands. But this was when I was about
10. I managed to persuade one girl who didn't think much of me to like me a
lot. I am a likeable person. Lots of people have told me I am smiley, bubbly
and tend to be generally happy. I do come across to people as rather
introverted and shy aswell. The funny thing is this girl I have met is
rather introverted and shy aswell.
I do have other fears aswell. I have a bit of baggage that I carry. It is
something that I have wrapped up inside me which if I end up in a
relationship I would have to share it with her. It is something a lot of
people in society see as weird. If you look at my aspie code you would see
what I am talking about (d-(!)@). To me it is a way I feel. It is a choice I
have made and is something that means quite a bit to me. If I am in a
serious relationship it could either make or break it. I would want a girl
who is accepting. For most people it is a bitter pill to swallow.
Esspecially if they come from a more conservative background.
I think it is a bit of a cliche but I think it is true. You never know who
you are going to fall in love with, however when you do you can just tell.
There have been a few people in my life where I can apply this. Some girls I
am put into this semi trance where I get this warm feeling in me and I end
up wanting to give them a big hug. But some go further I get the feeling
something is right about them which is what I like.
--
Matt the barefoot aspie
.oooO Oooo.
\ ) ( /
\ ( ) /
\ _) (_ /
Autistic Spectrum Code v1.0:
!AS d-(!) s:++ a--@ c++(+++) p+()@ t++ f-- S+(-)@ p?@ e++>+++ h-->? r->+ n+
i+ P m+@ M
Tom Staight
I think Autie/Aspie people can be a lot to deal with whether you're NT
or another Autie/Aspie. Especially if it's someone who has strict
obsessions about time/routine/etc. I find it hard to stick to a routine,
but then again I've never had a requirement to have one, except for
missing too many classes at college and almost becoming nocturnal at
points =\ I must be a bitch to live with =D
I feel a real drive to have a companion. Maybe a Cat or Dog would
satisfy it, but I do feel as if I'm missing out on a real intimate
relationship. I think I do well from being single, and to be fair I'd
probably prefer the lifestyle, but there's just something about being
with someone I can actually trust (trust not to leave me, as well as
trust with other things - and I'm not even *that* clingy =P)
I will just sit with my profile on hotornot and big *autism* and
*aspergers* keywords and see who clicks on me and can deal with my
problems assessing situations and reacting to emotions... =\
Tom
Tom Staight
> If you look at my aspie code you would see
> what I am talking about (d-(!)@)
Someone please, dear lord, explain to me what Aspie code is!
Sean with the Big Feet
> If only I could meet an Aspiegirl and live happily ever after! =( I am
> glad of the advice your story contained, although (either luckily or
> unluckily I am not sure) I learned how easily you can get screwed by
> other people at a very early age (8+ years ago) and was also diagnosed
> a few years ago.
That we are targets of the b4stard element of our community is not
surprising. I got bullied at school - how much was because I was Aspie and
how much was because I outshone the bullies academicaly (when I worked) and
because I was not a show-off, had the girls flocking round me?
No, on reflection, I _was_ just plain weird. I say 'was' because I have
figured out a lot of the unwritten (unfathomable) rules, or more often, how
to deal with them. Knowledge of Asperger's has allowed me to put a lot
into context and figure out why I am weird in the eyes of those around me.
Maybe because of the school I teach in, where we have a higher-than-average
number of geeks and freaks and probably high-end non-DXed Aspies as well as
the DXed ones. I am in an environment I have chosen to be in - unlike
fifteen years ago when I was in an environment I most certainly did not
want to be in. There's a great sense of tolerance and community in our
place and thankfully the 'hard bastard' element are not tolerated by their
peers.
> I understand Neant Humain's worries about dating, but it is true -
> relationships can be incredibly nervewracking when you have no idea
> how to assess certain situations and cannot react to hints and
> suggestions that could actually mean a dozen things. I really think my
> ideal partner would be another Aspie, but with the amount of Aspieguys
> a huge amount higher than Aspiegirls, I will check out being asexual
> for a while longer =) I'm not looking very hard.
I agree, there is so much that can go wrong. I was very confused because I
got on so much better with girls than with boys. At one point I thought I
was gay (because, according to the social rules I was trying to figure out,
guys who like to be with girls all the time, who like classical music, etc
are gay).
With hindsight, this was probably confusion from the NTs trying to (a)
bully and (b) pigeonhole something they could not understand.
> All I can suggest is experience - of people, relationships, and dates.
> And don't *look* for dates when talking to girls because then every
> other thing they say could have a hint in about them wanting you. It's
> bad. At one point I thought one of my teachers had a crush on me
> because I did that. Thank god I didn't act on it =P
I think every guy fancies a teacher at some point. When they are the 22
year old Art babe, it's normal. When they are the 58 year old chain
smoking English teacher, then is the time to worry.
A friend of mine (possibly somewhere on the Aspie scale) met her husband a
nice way. They were at a conference and got talking - as friends. He
remembered where she worked and wrote a letter. Didn't surprise me to
figure out he's probably Aspie also. It seems to be an Aspie/Autie thing
that we can communicate as long as it is not face to face.
As for Neant - take your time and be patient. I wish I had. Lots of
people round you claim to be having sex (some probably are). How much of
it is fulfilling and how much is because they are following society's
rules?
In due course you will meet a girl who, even if she is not Aspie, is
sympathetic to it (or will be, when introduced to it!). A lot of people
are pathetically shallow and will find the concept of you being 'mentally
ill' is scary and try to get you to go to the doctor. This is srazy
because Aspies are not ill - we just see the world a different way. It's
important though that our close friends see the world along similar lines.
Actually, I'm thinking about my Aspie friends - even the ones who afaik
don't consider themselves Aspie. It's strange how many have sub-conciously
surrounded themselves with other people with Autistic traits, or who are
sympathetic to an Autistic mindset. As a potential wife is, after all your
best-friend, meet her as you would any other friend and get to know her as
you would any other friend.
I'll stop rambling now.
Tom Staight
> got on so much better with girls than with boys. At one point I thought I
> was gay (because, according to the social rules I was trying to figure out,
> guys who like to be with girls all the time, who like classical music, etc
> are gay).
Ditto. I just accept that, actually, I'm a bit girly =P Hahaha *ahem*
> I think every guy fancies a teacher at some point. When they are the 22
> year old Art babe, it's normal. When they are the 58 year old chain
> smoking English teacher, then is the time to worry.
I didn't particularly fancy her, I just got the distinct impression that
she fancied me. It was odd. Although after a little while the idea made
me kinda interested, but then she turned scary and bitchy a lot and then
it was the end of the year - so I'll just assume I'm lucky for not
trying anything on ;)
> A friend of mine (possibly somewhere on the Aspie scale) met her husband a
> nice way. They were at a conference and got talking - as friends. He
> remembered where she worked and wrote a letter. Didn't surprise me to
> figure out he's probably Aspie also. It seems to be an Aspie/Autie thing
> that we can communicate as long as it is not face to face.
We have an advantage in text-based mediums, because in person and in
voice there are emotions and body language to think about. In emails,
letters, and instant messengers, NTs see as much body language or
tone-of-voice as we do, but we still have our natural advantages (ie:
it's not unusual to have great vocabulary/knowledge/logic skills) so
it's a really great way to meet people and talk to people because, well,
you appear pretty good =)
> As for Neant - take your time and be patient. I wish I had. Lots of
> people round you claim to be having sex (some probably are). How much of
> it is fulfilling and how much is because they are following society's
> rules?
Take it from someone who rushed into things and made some mistakes -
whether or not you fantasize and imagine how things go in your head, it
will probably not be like that in person - especially on your first
time. Hell, you probably end up getting used like I did. And *that*
isn't as good as you imagine it either ;)
> In due course you will meet a girl who, even if she is not Aspie, is
> sympathetic to it (or will be, when introduced to it!). A lot of people
> are pathetically shallow and will find the concept of you being 'mentally
> ill' is scary and try to get you to go to the doctor. This is srazy
> because Aspies are not ill - we just see the world a different way. It's
> important though that our close friends see the world along similar lines.
Aspies are often more intelligent than their NT counterparts, but their
brain is structured slightly differently. It doesn't make you any *less*
intelligent, but you think in different ways, which can often conflict
with the ways NTs think, because they're just used to other people like
themselves. They have their own codes and rules and regulations which
seem like complete garbage to Aspies, but there's little we can do
because they outnumber us =) So you either learn to live with them, or
you learn to live on your own, but you can do either or both and be
happy. You will always have an advantage if you see your rare abilities
as "selling points" both professionally and as a friend. You can see and
think of things that your friends wouldn't - and as long as you can pick
out the inappropriate things, you will be a nice useful guy to have
around (not saying that you will not be nice or useful if you do not do
those things, because everyone is useful - and you sound like a nice guy
anyway!)
Anyway I think I'm digging a bit of a (metaphorical!) hole for myself
here, so I'll let you read this and comment. Just my slant on life as an
(overly) individual =)
Take it easy,
Tom
sggaB the Slug
with the Big Feet wrote:
> When I was 18, I went with an evil bitch for about a year. She took
> advantage of what I didn't realise at the time - my apparent gullability
> and social naivity. I only found out about Asperger's a few years later
> and it answered a lot of questions.
My first/only boyfriend was abusive as well. While I think it was more
complicated than the usual "taking advantage of an easy target" situation,
I do think that it's more common for autistic people who *do* end up in
relationships to end up with people who take advantage of them.
I have had no relationships of the sort I might actually *want* to have
(female-female) and think that I share a lot of the problems that autistic
straight men have in that regard (I think that culturally NT women send
off so many more signals and are so much more subtle socially that it
becomes much harder to figure out dating them no matter what gender you
are).
--
If my post disagrees with someone, it doesn't mean I dislike them or want
to attack them. If my post agrees with someone, it doesn't mean I want to
form a social alliance with them. This is neither a war nor a status game
for me. This autism FAQ has more details: http://www.mugsy.org/asa_faq/
Seth Kneller
>> Now I'm engaged to an Aspie girl I met via the web. I gave up trying to do
>> social things. If you try to live according to NT rules (lots of sex,
>> drugs and rock and roll) you'll make a fool of yourself and live to regret
>> a lot of things.
>
> If only I could meet an Aspiegirl and live happily ever after! =(
In my experience it doesn't seem like there are many Aspie girl's around -
or rather I should qualify that by saying that there aren't many who are
straight and compatable, and of those that are - it seems a lot are
already spoken for!
Sorry if I have offended any of the females on this ng.
--
Seth
Tom Staight
I also do not want to offend anyone, but am just suggesting
observations, so excuse me if they aren't as justified as I had thought...
I tend to get the feeling that Aspiegirls are happier being single than
Aspieguys. Both will probably have been abused by someone of the
opposite sex in their lifetime, but whereas guys are more likely to just
carry on looking and assume it was a bad relationship, females seem to
tend to make judgments about males in general and then turn away from
all males, either to become asexual or otherwise.
It is a shame that they lose faith in selfish arrogant men, when the
aspirations of some peoples entire lives are living with and caring for
one person who they really love... the only real requirement is someone
who loves them as much as they love them back. It's a shame so many
people's ambitions seem to be about how many cars and houses they can
get by the time they're 30, especially other peoples, or at the cost of
relationships with other people.
*sigh*
We all find someone in the end. Or we don't. But at least the world
keeps turning.
Tom
Gareeth
> I tend to get the feeling that Aspiegirls are happier being single
> than Aspieguys. Both will probably have been abused by someone of the
> opposite sex in their lifetime, but whereas guys are more likely to
> just carry on looking and assume it was a bad relationship, females
> seem to
> tend to make judgments about males in general and then turn away from
> all males, either to become asexual or otherwise.
Woah that's qutie a feat of imagination you just did. I am a female with
autism. I am not in a relationship and I have never been in an intimate one
with anyone. The reason for this is not because I have been in a bad
relationship. There is no single kind of female aspie anymore than there is
a single kind of aspie anyone. To assume that there is and we have all had
some sort of uniformly bad experience that stops us from continuing to try
to have a relationship is pretty well a creation of your own mind. I am the
only single straight unspoken for female with autism I know pretty much.
Some researchers think the gender gap gets even wider at the higher
functioning end of the autistic spectrum. Who knows.
Gareeth
Tom Staight
I wasn't trying to insinuate that everybody is the same! Just that it
seems that a lot of Aspies get easily mislead earlier on in life...
that, and life's probably be a lot easier if you didn't have to always
be "living to" NT-standards (emotions and body language at home all the
time as well as outside - argh!)
I know quite a lot of NT women who used to be straight, but were screwed
around with by a few men (in a row, understandably) and so give up on
men. I can totally understand why, and I know that it wont apply for a
lot of people (probably not even a majority) but I just think it's a
shame that people can be so selfish that they make a person decide
they'd rather be single than have any relationships...
growi...@hotmail.com
> I tend to get the feeling that Aspiegirls are happier being single than
> Aspieguys. Both will probably have been abused by someone of the
> opposite sex in their lifetime, but whereas guys are more likely to just
> carry on looking and assume it was a bad relationship, females seem to
> tend to make judgments about males in general and then turn away from
> all males, either to become asexual or otherwise.
Someone can be single out of choice, not because environment persuaded
them that it was easier or better.
I am single and will be until I die. That is because I have chosen that,
I feel it gives me advantages in my life (it fits my autistic personality),
it allows me to better exercise my faith, and because I *enjoy* it. For
me to have a fulfilling life means I will live it single (but not alone,
which is also one of my pet peeves - I value my friendships very deeply).
Not everyone feels this way (or called to this type of life as I feel
about myself). That's fine. But some of us do feel this way.
A bad relationship or abuse is *NOT* why I'm single. And I didn't
"become asexual" (meaning "become someone who doesn't date") - I've been
this way since I was born.
Of course I'm male, but I suspect females can make choices for the same
reason.
--
Joel
Hylander
Two things have worked well for me.
1) Online/penpal type relationships. Basically, I kept in touch with a
few girls when I was about 22. I think women like letters. Anyhow,
phone calls are tricky but I can get going once started. I married a
pen pal and had some good friendships with others. I could ask them
lots and lots of questions and they would provide answers. I think
they enjoy that. Plus you get to know someone *very* well without the
interference of human body language and interaction/busy
interruptions/appointments/hair-washing etc etc. It's not bothersome
and it's "asynchronous" which means its very convenient for them to
chose a time to respond to you in an indirect non-threatening way.
2) Instead of asking for a date "next week" or "Monday", try asking
them out when they seem to have time *now*. ie: "do you wanna go get
some <social beverage of choice>" Find out what they like to eat.
Offer them this immediately. Immediate gratification is better.
Planned dates are actually better after you have jump started going
out with a person. Say something like "thanks for going out with me".
3) Women like protectors and earners. If you can show this,
All women are different when it comes to
"spirituality/intellectuality/funloving/active/gossipy etc.". You have
to be yourself and so find someone who matches you in this respect or
that you can tolerate in this respect because you will need to do the
these kinds of things with them a lot.
4) Art exhibits are excellent. (for me anyway). First off, art is
usually quite cool and beautiful. Commenting on positive things
psychologically put you in a positive light. It also is something
people don't do often, don't think about doing but usually
appreciate/enjoy afterwards. These feelings are the same kinds of
feelings that women also associate with love. You want these feelings
associated with you. This is based on several studies and has worked I
think every time.
5) Its corny but at one point...you have to say something to the
effect of "I like you/love you." or somehow communicate that you
consider them a "girlfriend".
6) Watch a movie....lean on their shoulder, sigh, pat hand, then hold
it. You must be alone....or else it is embarassing for them.
7) Offer massage. (unless they are also autistic and touch sensitive
to human hands/their clothes rubbing... discuss it non-chalantly
first). Massages can be innocent to completely nasty but it's probably
good to end with kissing if you haven't done that yet and go no
further unless you are ready/both really after some intimacy.
8) relationships have to be maintained. keep surprises and gifts in
there. later, you may pop the question of marriage....get
engaged....or decide on whatever else....but that's rather obvious and
often the hardest part is getting started.
9) its easier to give advice than to take it ...hindsight is 20/20. do
what works for you....refer to advice when you can't think of what to
do and something is not working. don't have to do this literally.
HTH/YMMV/GLHF/etc etc.
> It must be
> possible for someone like me to find love.
Why? I should warn you though that the younger you are, the easier it
is. However...it is also the time you may be least prepared. Good time
to practice. Don't rush... I have to relate one story for you though.
Some people sadly enough don't make it to love. They are often in the
category of "too desperate".(and additionally very disfigured)..(and
often have a "sex" issue and it shows too much.). There are no
guarantees in life. But there are ways to optimize your opportunities.
I'd say give it some time. Having AS is by no means a bar on having a
relationship with someone....there are more women than men (in the
West) and there is at least someone desperate (if you are)....you want
to find someone who is not too desperate but maybe desperate enough to
fall in love??? Everyone wants love. You just have to give it to
someone who is a rational and kind enough person to recognize it and
who can learn to like you. Attraction sometimes doesn't happen right
away. (it takes time to get used to someone).
If you don't succeed, you can still be happy. there are many people
who you can still be close to. Some people also find that sex is not
all that different than "that vice" we "all tend to do". ;).
> And also, what is the best
> way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
> than just different and that there's a name for it too? It would seem
> pretty disingenuous to tell someone you have Asperber's the day after
> they marry you, but you wouldn't want to scare someone off before they
> got to know you as a person and not a so-called disorder.
Just start off with "I want some time to talk to you about
something...." say it as sober as possible that you have Asperger's
and then explain it. I'd say that once they know quite a few things
about you. (ie: like where you live and what you do most of the day)
and perhaps have been to one ore more public places with you (maybe
like 3rd date but could be up to a year???). There is no right time
and you may not want to say at all....??? It's not critical but I'd
imagine you would eventually anyway out human nature to be self
disclosing before any major committment like marriage or permanent
live in arrangements.
John
sggaB the Slug
wrote:
> I tend to get the feeling that Aspiegirls are happier being single than
> Aspieguys. Both will probably have been abused by someone of the
> opposite sex in their lifetime, but whereas guys are more likely to just
> carry on looking and assume it was a bad relationship, females seem to
> tend to make judgments about males in general and then turn away from
> all males, either to become asexual or otherwise.
Er... that's quite an inference, as someone else on this thread said.
Most of the autistic lesbians I have known have not dated men. In fact
I'm the only one I'm particularly close to who has, and I was attracted
primarily to women *while I was dating him* (it's called confusion --
dating one gender while actually attracted primarily to the other, while
in early adolescence, that is; it happens in both directions.). I had not
even expected to be dating him in the first place (long story that I don't
feel like retelling, but suffice to say I took some stuff literally I
shouldn't have) and had turned away a bunch of guys who'd asked directly
because I simply wasn't interested in guys that way. (I had had and
continue to have rather intense attraction to females, but at that time in
my life concepts of that nature had been defined to me in literal terms as
"things you feel for a male" so I did not have any idea there were any
other choices.)
I am actually on speaking terms with him now (he does not abuse
girlfriends anymore) and don't have anything against men in general. If I
wanted to date men, there are plenty of very nice autistic men out there,
and I would gladly consider romantic relationships with them. It would
certainly make my life a lot easier given that I'm *not* all that happy
single (wherever you got the idea of "lesbian" = "single" is confusing).
The only autistic people I know currently who talk a lot about being
asexual are two males, one intersexed person, and one female.
There do seem to be a larger proportion of autistic non-straight (in
whatever sense) females than there are males, as far as I can tell, but it
doesn't seem to be a matter of disillusionment with males (especially as
many of them are bisexual).
sggaB the Slug
wrote:
> Someone can be single out of choice, not because environment persuaded
> them that it was easier or better.
<snip>
> A bad relationship or abuse is *NOT* why I'm single. And I didn't
> "become asexual" (meaning "become someone who doesn't date") - I've been
> this way since I was born.
> Of course I'm male, but I suspect females can make choices for the same
> reason.
I don't know that I was gay since I was born (I think I was pretty much
asexual until puberty), but aside from that the above statements pretty
much apply to me. And certainly given that the potential consequences of
being openly gay are as bad or worse than being in an abusive
relationship, I don't think that's the sort of thing I would have chosen
*to get away from* abuse.
Especially since women can be just as abusive as men in relationships and
the only choice to steadfastly get away from arrogant abusive people would
be to remain asexual or remain in a committed relationship. I know of
more than one couple (past and present) where at least one partner is
autistic and it is the female doing the abusing (whether the other partner
is female or male), and so far it hasn't changed the female to being
straight or the male to being gay.
As far as being single goes, I would rather be single than date someone I
didn't really want to date (whether male or female) or who was abusive
(whether male or female). But I definitely don't always enjoy being
single (unlike Joel). I'm mainly stuck this way the reason many autistic
straight males are stuck this way.
Gareeth
>
> I wasn't trying to insinuate that everybody is the same! Just that it
> seems that a lot of Aspies get easily mislead earlier on in life...
It would have been helpful if you had stated it as an a lot the first time
around. Not sure if I would agree all the same but at least it would not
have been such a huge generalization
>
> I know quite a lot of NT women who used to be straight, but were
> screwed around with by a few men (in a row, understandably) and so
> give up on
> men. I can totally understand why, and I know that it wont apply for a
> lot of people (probably not even a majority) but I just think it's a
> shame that people can be so selfish that they make a person decide
> they'd rather be single than have any relationships...
I don't think homosexuality is a choice. There is better scientific basis to
suppot it being a choice for women than men but I doubt very much that a
substantial portion of females becoming lesbians have to do with men who are
creeps.
GAreeth
sggaB the Slug
> I don't think homosexuality is a choice. There is better scientific basis to
> suppot it being a choice for women than men but I doubt very much that a
> substantial portion of females becoming lesbians have to do with men who are
> creeps.
As far as my own experience goes, since I get along far better with NT men
than NT women for the most part, it would be way easier for me if I
wasn't. I don't really care what *did* cause it out of the available
rather black-and-white "choice vs. biology" models (all I know is what I
experienced, which was attraction *very* primarily to women from as soon
as I remember being attracted to anyone onward), but I do know that it
wasn't because of my ex, whom I'm not on horrible terms with or anything
despite the fact that he was abusive.
Gareeth
>
> As far as my own experience goes, since I get along far better with
> NT men than NT women for the most part, it would be way easier for me
> if I
> wasn't. I don't really care what *did* cause it out of the available
> rather black-and-white "choice vs. biology" models (all I know is
> what I experienced, which was attraction *very* primarily to women
> from as soon
> as I remember being attracted to anyone onward), but I do know that it
> wasn't because of my ex, whom I'm not on horrible terms with or
> anything despite the fact that he was abusive.
I don't think any black and white model has the answers. Ultimately I think
every person knows best for themself. Wherte establsihing etiology has been
most helpful though is for the segment of homophobic people who will listen
to science. It also seems to be of some help to people like my oldest friend
who otherwise might have felt even more guilty than he did about being gay.
For myself attraction has been largely an academic thing. I am not sure that
I have ever felt true chemical attraction to anyone of any gender. I have
learned to appreciate some people aesthetically and one time a person who I
felt asthetic appreciation for was a female. If I wind up married it would
likley be because a person brought a logically good group of skills and
qualities to the arrangement. I expect that if it happened such a
relationship would be pretty different from one where lust plays a role in
the initial stage.
Gareeth
Sean with the Big Feet
news:yFGLb.909$6L3...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk:
>> I agree, there is so much that can go wrong. I was very confused
>> because I got on so much better with girls than with boys. At one
>> point I thought I was gay (because, according to the social rules I
>> was trying to figure out, guys who like to be with girls all the
>> time, who like classical music, etc are gay).
>
> Ditto. I just accept that, actually, I'm a bit girly =P Hahaha *ahem*
>
Likewise. I regularly stand at the front of the classroom either like a
teapot or waving hands like an octopus having a fit.
I'll stop before I dog a huge hole for myself. I have to go and look at
curtains ;-)
Sean with the Big Feet
news:btnjlo$9085n$1...@ID-169619.news.uni-berlin.de:
> Woah that's qutie a feat of imagination you just did. I am a female
> with autism. I am not in a relationship and I have never been in an
*Sean calls to the single guys and points at Gareeth shouting "OVER
HERE!!!"*
sggaB the Slug
with the Big Feet wrote:
>> Woah that's qutie a feat of imagination you just did. I am a female
>> with autism. I am not in a relationship and I have never been in an
> *Sean calls to the single guys and points at Gareeth shouting "OVER
> HERE!!!"*
<grin>
In all seriousness I've heard a couple of different accounts of that
scaring autistic women away from offline support groups. They tend to be
mostly male anyway, so female autistics can end up getting a lot more
attention than they always want.
I can't say I've noticed it myself, but I'm mostly oblivious to that kind
of thing (here is where I break off into a tangent): I've literally
jumped into bed and slept (literal sleep only) with guys before and, since
I wasn't attracted to them, had no clue that this would provoke sexual
tension of any kind.
I would still be clueless to this day if it had not been described to me
later -- it doesn't naturally occur to me that [insert one here:
undressing near, sleeping in a bed with, goofily horsing around with,
living with, getting to know very well, and several other things] a person
would be construed as sexual, although I have had a few of those things
drilled into me as "things you don't do" now because they're simply too
open to misinterpretation.
(Although I still do things like accidentally wander into the living room
half-naked around male guests, but fortunately the last male guest I did
that to was both asexual and oblivious. I think the other ones I've done
it to are simply too polite to say anything. I really have trouble
remembering things like that, especially in my own home. But I know for
the most part not to *undress* in front of people because that much was
heavily drilled into me in school. It's remembering to put clothes on
before coming into the room that's the hard part.)
It's really weird to think that a good deal of the world attributes so
much sexual significance to actions like that though.
sggaB the Slug
> I don't think any black and white model has the answers. Ultimately I think
> every person knows best for themself. Wherte establsihing etiology has been
> most helpful though is for the segment of homophobic people who will listen
> to science. It also seems to be of some help to people like my oldest friend
> who otherwise might have felt even more guilty than he did about being gay.
That makes sense. It does also cause confusion for people who think they
made a choice, though. I kind of wish both were acceptable, especially
because I don't think "I was born that way" is the reason I have a right
to be any particular way. (As far as I can tell, sexuality or anything
like that toward other people was the furthest thing from my mind when I
was born. But once I began being attracted to people I definitely didn't
choose who it would be, it just happened.)
> For myself attraction has been largely an academic thing. I am not sure that
> I have ever felt true chemical attraction to anyone of any gender. I have
> learned to appreciate some people aesthetically and one time a person who I
> felt asthetic appreciation for was a female. If I wind up married it would
> likley be because a person brought a logically good group of skills and
> qualities to the arrangement. I expect that if it happened such a
> relationship would be pretty different from one where lust plays a role in
> the initial stage.
That makes sense. One *possible* dynamic with me is not becoming
attracted to someone until I know them well, although femaleness for
whatever reason does seem to play into that particular avenue toward
physical attraction (it just isn't the only factor). So it would actually
be quite possible for me to end up in a relationship where lust played no
role in the initial stage (even if love might or might not have played a
role in the initial stage, but love is a word with many different
meanings) but did kick in in later stages.
Of course there are plenty of other avenues into a relationship, in which
physical attraction could play an earlier part for me.
Sean with the Big Feet
> It's really weird to think that a good deal of the world attributes so
> much sexual significance to actions like that though.
NT rules that the NTs probably don't understand fully.
If, on a beach in southern Spain I talked to a girl who was semi-naked I
would not conclude sexual motive. I would conclude she was very warm.
In Britain, the opportunity to remove clothing is so rare, the very sight
of naked flesh throws people into a frenzy. That somebody would
voluntarily be less than fully clothed in the presence of the opposite sex
is considered either promiscuous, or plain weird.
Actually, the above is not entirely true. When painting the bathroom last
summer I purposely only wore shorts. It was too hot for over-alls and I
knew the paint that landed on my body would wash off. This is 'normal'.
If my gf did it it is 'kinky'.
Likewise, if I take my shirt off when working in the garden it is normal
and healthy, I'm told. I don't do it to be normal - I do it because the
sun helps my eczema and it's far too hot to wear anything.
If she does it, she's apparently being a tart and the neighbours will tell
their children to avoid coming near us.
Apparently men can get excited at the site of a woman's naked breasts but
women don't get excited at the sight of a mildly hairy, reasonably well-
built male torso.
Confuses me it does.
Hylander
> sggaB the Slug wrote:
> >
> > As far as my own experience goes, since I get along far better with
> > NT men than NT women for the most part, it would be way easier for me
> > if I
> > wasn't. I don't really care what *did* cause it out of the available
> > rather black-and-white "choice vs. biology" models (all I know is
> > what I experienced, which was attraction *very* primarily to women
> > from as soon
> > as I remember being attracted to anyone onward), but I do know that it
> > wasn't because of my ex, whom I'm not on horrible terms with or
> > anything despite the fact that he was abusive.
>
> I don't think any black and white model has the answers.
I agree. I think it's a bit of both environment and genetic tendency
similar to the alcohol gene. IIRC the "gene" that has been researched
has been xq28. (I could look it up but I'll let google correct me with
it's "did you mean ..." feature.) ok. anyhow, you'll recognize that if
you see it.
I think it's wrong to judge people very strongly. I know both openly
gay people and men who are more closeted and have been married for
many many years and choose not to be gay for very good reasons. I
don't think gay's should judge "ex-gays" and neither should it be the
other way around. For example, this guy, after getting dumped, used
and his life threatened by other gay men, finally figured out that his
"hag" or girl-friend was more suitable for him....so he got married
and they have a committment to each other. He's only bi in the sense
that he can function with her but sex is not that critical in their
relationship. They don't do it a lot. They simply prefer the other's
company and he has decided not to go through the mess of a
lifestyle/constant testing, worrying about leaky condoms, endangerment
etc. He says if he were to go back, he'd go overboard and its better
that he doesn't. Then again, I know some guys who live
together...fairly committed and don't have this same problem and tend
to fit in better with that community and they don't have many personal
issues with it. I am strongly against any kind of judgement either
way....when it comes to being judgemental it is very much on *BOTH*
sides of the fence. When it comes to the whole matter, there is good
evidence that like alcohol, you don't have to have a gene to "drink".
(ie: prisons/the navy/ancient greece.) The only think you can do is
say what works for you and let others try things on their own. So I
completely agree.
> Ultimately I think
> every person knows best for themself. Wherte establsihing etiology has been
> most helpful though is for the segment of homophobic people who will listen
> to science. It also seems to be of some help to people like my oldest friend
> who otherwise might have felt even more guilty than he did about being gay.
>
> For myself attraction has been largely an academic thing. I am not sure that
> I have ever felt true chemical attraction to anyone of any gender. I have
> learned to appreciate some people aesthetically and one time a person who I
> felt asthetic appreciation for was a female. If I wind up married it would
> likley be because a person brought a logically good group of skills and
> qualities to the arrangement. I expect that if it happened such a
> relationship would be pretty different from one where lust plays a role in
> the initial stage.
Aesthetic attraction is different in some way but also can overlap
sexually I think too. (and sometimes not at all which tends to be the
case with me *much* of the time). In that sense...it seems like an
academic thing to me too. I personally think marriage is a very good
thing. It leads to stability/not worrying and not constantly having to
"meet new people" which for me is difficult.
Hylander
> Tom Staight <use...@templeofdreams.net> wrote:
> > I tend to get the feeling that Aspiegirls are happier being single than
> > Aspieguys. Both will probably have been abused by someone of the
> > opposite sex in their lifetime, but whereas guys are more likely to just
> > carry on looking and assume it was a bad relationship, females seem to
> > tend to make judgments about males in general and then turn away from
> > all males, either to become asexual or otherwise.
>
> Someone can be single out of choice, not because environment persuaded
> them that it was easier or better.
My aunt is this way. She's 93 and has been single her whole life. She
dated and was not unattractive or in anyway not "dating" material. It
was her choice. She says she doesn't regret it. She enjoys her own
company and is very close to her neices and nephews (me). She has had
a widow room mate whose children had already moved out early (who
recently passed on and so I keep in touch with her a bit more now).
She jokes with me that maybe in her next life, she'll be married.
> I am single and will be until I die. That is because I have chosen that,
> I feel it gives me advantages in my life (it fits my autistic personality),
> it allows me to better exercise my faith, and because I *enjoy* it. For
> me to have a fulfilling life means I will live it single (but not alone,
> which is also one of my pet peeves - I value my friendships very deeply).
> Not everyone feels this way (or called to this type of life as I feel
> about myself). That's fine. But some of us do feel this way.
> A bad relationship or abuse is *NOT* why I'm single. And I didn't
> "become asexual" (meaning "become someone who doesn't date") - I've been
> this way since I was born.
>
> Of course I'm male, but I suspect females can make choices for the same
> reason.
I think its all about choosing what you want and not necessarily any
other factor that "drives" it.
John
N?ant Humain
>
> married it would likley be because a person brought a logically good group
> of skills and qualities to the arrangement.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you've just unwittingly
written the funniest thing I've read or heard yet today.
For me, I don't think I take that perspective on marriage. Actually, I
don't think I want to get married at all right now. With the high rate
of divorce, it seems like marriage makes ending relationships all the
more painful.
I was wondering whether romantic love existed in the emotional sense
because I too hadn't truly experienced this emotion until pretty
recently. Now that I've experienced this emotion though, I know it's
worth trying harder to build a good relationship: It's much more than
lust.
Larry
an old fart like me or already married.
--
Larry
"We are all of one mind, one equal mind, and if each of us persists in being
the centre of our own existence we are all doomed to suffer at each others
hands. I cannot exist on my own without you, neither can you be without me,
what is the world wide web about after all?. We are interdependent whether
we are aware of the fact or not"
"Seth Kneller" <se...@autismisanotherworld.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.10....@autismisanotherworld.com...
Larry
have any kids.
However living the single life is not too bad, I do not have to share my
living space with anybody, there simply is not physically room for another
person in my life at present unless they bring a considerable endowment with
them so I can move into a mansion.
--
Larry
"We are all of one mind, one equal mind, and if each of us persists in being
the centre of our own existence we are all doomed to suffer at each others
hands. I cannot exist on my own without you, neither can you be without me,
what is the world wide web about after all?. We are interdependent whether
we are aware of the fact or not"
"Tom Staight" <use...@templeofdreams.net> wrote in message
news:teILb.2271$6L3...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Larry
major problems with self esteem particularly after my dx. Varios women have
found me attractive and I have no shortage of female friends. However when
it comes to what most women seem to want in a relationship I just don't
deliver because of my tactile defensiveness and seeming indifference. Mind
you that innaccesibility can be a turn on to some.
One of my three closest female friends is someone whom both our parents were
eager to marry off to each other but right now we prefer our relationship
the way it is, seperate lives and sharing experiences. If either of us
should desire a sexual partner then it does not bother the other any more.
The other is young enough to be my daughter so I enjoy a different kind of
relationship with her, no less close or caring but definately non sexual.
Both of them are closer than family to me, so much so that they are family
The third, well she is on this list so I better watch my words :)
--
Larry
"We are all of one mind, one equal mind, and if each of us persists in being
the centre of our own existence we are all doomed to suffer at each others
hands. I cannot exist on my own without you, neither can you be without me,
what is the world wide web about after all?. We are interdependent whether
we are aware of the fact or not"
"Gareeth" <Garee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bto77f$9jr3a$1...@ID-169619.news.uni-berlin.de...
Larry
moment,
Its not really going to bother me whether I will be drawing blokes or women,
I just want to practice my figure drawing skills.
As for me I was quite happy to get half undressed in a car park behind my
landrover for my graduation ceremony as driving something as messy as a
Landie in your best suit is not a good idea. Mind you I was a long way from
where anybody could really see me.
--
Larry
"We are all of one mind, one equal mind, and if each of us persists in being
the centre of our own existence we are all doomed to suffer at each others
hands. I cannot exist on my own without you, neither can you be without me,
what is the world wide web about after all?. We are interdependent whether
we are aware of the fact or not"
"sggaB the Slug" <ama...@autistics.org> wrote in message
news:slrnbvvj7b...@localhost.localdomain...
Gareeth
> "Gareeth" <Garee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<bto77f$9jr3a$1...@ID-169619.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>>
>> For myself attraction has been largely an academic thing. . . .If I
>> wind up
>> married it would likley be because a person brought a logically good
>> group
>> of skills and qualities to the arrangement.
>
> I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you've just unwittingly
> written the funniest thing I've read or heard yet today.
I knew some people would find it an odd take but I was willing to gamble
that on a newsgroup largely made up of other autistic people there would be
people who feel the same thing. I don't see anything funny about it though
and in fact it is closer to how mates were selected even in the not too
distant past.
>
> For me, I don't think I take that perspective on marriage. Actually, I
> don't think I want to get married at all right now. With the high rate
> of divorce, it seems like marriage makes ending relationships all the
> more painful.
Some of the high rate of divorce is likely because of the increase in
mathces that are based on romantic love rather than logical things.
Atrributes that are accounted for logically tend not to.
>
> I was wondering whether romantic love existed in the emotional sense
> because I too hadn't truly experienced this emotion until pretty
> recently. Now that I've experienced this emotion though, I know it's
> worth trying harder to build a good relationship: It's much more than
> lust.
I wasn't saying that romantic love and lust are the same thing. Initial
chemical attraction is largely lust though. I meant the first momentary
pull people describe not the thing that lasts longer that could be described
as romatic love. I have never expereienced lust so I have to go by what
people tell me and what is written in these matters.
Gareeth
Gareeth
> In article <Xns946C60B46BAD2xn...@62.253.162.107>, Sean
> with the Big Feet wrote:
>
>>> Woah that's qutie a feat of imagination you just did. I am a female
>>> with autism. I am not in a relationship and I have never been in an
>
>> *Sean calls to the single guys and points at Gareeth shouting "OVER
>> HERE!!!"*
>
> <grin>
>
> In all seriousness I've heard a couple of different accounts of that
> scaring autistic women away from offline support groups. They tend
> to be mostly male anyway, so female autistics can end up getting a
> lot more attention than they always want.
I've seen it happen on IRC. There I am largely protected from the dynamic
partitally by my adrogynous nick and partially by my ophood. I more often
have to become involved when I see it scaring away female new people.
The thing that I find most scary about the whole thing is the responsibility
that goes with it. I am far more worried about how easy it would be to hurt
a guy so desperate for companionship.
Gareeth
Gareeth
> I'm happy enough being single, I think my biggest regret is that I do
> not have any kids.
>
working fine though so in theory it is not too late if it should happen. I
have reached a point though where I am no longer as sad by not having
reproduced as I once was. It is not like I have not shaped and enriched the
life of many children at least. Both the boy who lives here and my nephew
have promised to look after me in my old age. I don't know if either of them
will but I think parents take the same gamble.
Gareeth
Tom Staight
I appologise for making it look like that - I meant either become
lesbian through not trusting men, or *choose* to be single through not
trusting *any* relationships... I think it didn't come out how I meant.
Gareeth
But like other people have said choosing to be single is not necessarily
about not trusting relationships. For me it is just less complicated. If
someone came along that made the complications of not being single worth
living with then I would reasses it but haiving been single so long now I
suspect it gets harder and harder for a case to be made for it to be
otherwise.
Gareeth
Larry
wonder who would do the same for me. I used to worry about dying alone in my
flat, but of course my present flat will be gone before me on present
reckoning.
I am in the situation now where there are friends who would worry if they
did not see or here from me in a long while, but looking after me? well that
is something else.
--
Larry
"We are all of one mind, one equal mind, and if each of us persists in being
the centre of our own existence we are all doomed to suffer at each others
hands. I cannot exist on my own without you, neither can you be without me,
what is the world wide web about after all?. We are interdependent whether
we are aware of the fact or not"
"Gareeth" <Garee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:btpmro$a2pnh$1...@ID-169619.news.uni-berlin.de...
Tom Staight
> I have ever felt true chemical attraction to anyone of any gender. I have
> learned to appreciate some people aesthetically and one time a person who I
> felt asthetic appreciation for was a female. If I wind up married it would
> likley be because a person brought a logically good group of skills and
> qualities to the arrangement. I expect that if it happened such a
> relationship would be pretty different from one where lust plays a role in
> the initial stage.
You sound like Donna Williams! =)
(that isn't a bad thing, I don't think, just an observation)
growi...@hotmail.com
> After looking after my mum who did not make it into much of old age, I
> wonder who would do the same for me. I used to worry about dying alone in my
> flat, but of course my present flat will be gone before me on present
> reckoning.
> I am in the situation now where there are friends who would worry if they
> did not see or here from me in a long while, but looking after me? well that
> is something else.
Yes, I feel the same way. I don't think there will be anyone to take
care of me when I'm old, so I hope that need doesn't come, or at least
home-based care will be more common then it is now.
I also worry about having a breakdown sometime and finding myself unable
to take care of myself in the ways I can right now. I'm really glad that
at least one of my friends has stated that I could live with them if
things got really desperate. But I'm still really concerned since most
of my friends do not have the EF resources to help me if I really found
myself in trouble.
--
Joel
sggaB the Slug
Staight wrote:
Ah.
Problem is, I am (or became, possibly -- it's immaterial to me, what
matters is that it's currently the best descriptor) lesbian despite the
fact that I tend to trust men more than I trust women, since men tend to
send less complicated social signals. This is true for a lot of lesbians
(autistic and non-autistic). My relationship with a guy wasn't a great
one, but neither was it one I would have chosen in the first place, and I
trust him enough now that I know he's changed (he was a kid himself at the
time; he grew up different). It certainly wouldn't have put me off men
had I liked men that way, any more than an abusive relationship with a
woman would put me off women.
So your reasoning still doesn't work there.
sggaB the Slug
Staight wrote:
I haven't gotten anything like that impression about DW's take on
marriage, at least in any of her public writing.
sggaB the Slug
wrote:
> Yes, I feel the same way. I don't think there will be anyone to take
> care of me when I'm old, so I hope that need doesn't come, or at least
> home-based care will be more common then it is now.
I sometimes think it's a blessing in disguise that I can't imagine myself
getting old. (I mean I can imagine the events happening, but I can't
imagine living that long. Not because I think I'll die, just because I
don't seem to be able to abstract that far ahead, among other things.)
growi...@hotmail.com
> I sometimes think it's a blessing in disguise that I can't imagine myself
> getting old. (I mean I can imagine the events happening, but I can't
> imagine living that long. Not because I think I'll die, just because I
> don't seem to be able to abstract that far ahead, among other things.)
Yes, I have similar issues. Thinking two or three years ahead seems like
thinking about things a "long time from now".
--
Joel
Larry
I live up three flights of steps and bits of me do not work as well as they
used to.
In the event of an accident I might have a lot of difficulty and as yet
there is no alternative accomodation for me.
--
Larry
"We are all of one mind, one equal mind, and if each of us persists in being
the centre of our own existence we are all doomed to suffer at each others
hands. I cannot exist on my own without you, neither can you be without me,
what is the world wide web about after all?. We are interdependent whether
we are aware of the fact or not"
"sggaB the Slug" <ama...@autistics.org> wrote in message
news:slrnc013t9...@localhost.localdomain...
sggaB the Slug
> Yes but I never projected that I would live past thirty and I did.
I don't tend to project I'll live past the next year, if that. I always
do.
Tom Staight
> attracted to someone until I know them well, although femaleness for
> whatever reason does seem to play into that particular avenue toward
> physical attraction (it just isn't the only factor). So it would actually
> be quite possible for me to end up in a relationship where lust played no
> role in the initial stage (even if love might or might not have played a
> role in the initial stage, but love is a word with many different
> meanings) but did kick in in later stages.
I find stereotypical "femaleness" attractive, but then again if I see it
in males then I end up attracted to them as well, which confused me for
a long time until I worked it out. It caused some problems because I
started having feelings for my best friend and he wasn't Aspie or into
any of that sort of thing, so there were a lot of misunderstandings!
In the long run, if I had a permanent/long-term partner, I can see
myself with a female, but then again it isn't particularly the body that
makes the relationship. I'm almost 18 and body isn't particularly
important to me, so there must be something weird going on =\
Tom Staight
> have any kids.
That is one of the reasons I am anxious about my future. I want to have
kids. I want to bring them up, and if they are Aspies, I want to help
them understand the crazy world they've been injected into.
> However living the single life is not too bad, I do not have to share my
> living space with anybody, there simply is not physically room for another
> person in my life at present unless they bring a considerable endowment with
> them so I can move into a mansion.
I would love a girlfriend or wife who understands me and makes
allowances for my mistakes and shortfalls in life, but even if I had
kids and did not have a partner to look after them with, I think I would
be happy.
I guess a partner would be something of convenience rather than
requirement. You give up certain freedoms in order to receive other
benefits in return. Sometimes freedom is better... sometimes not.
Tom Staight
>>>I have ever felt true chemical attraction to anyone of any gender. I have
>>>learned to appreciate some people aesthetically and one time a person who I
>>>felt asthetic appreciation for was a female. If I wind up married it would
>>>likley be because a person brought a logically good group of skills and
>>>qualities to the arrangement. I expect that if it happened such a
>>>relationship would be pretty different from one where lust plays a role in
>>>the initial stage.
>
>>You sound like Donna Williams! =)
>>(that isn't a bad thing, I don't think, just an observation)
>
> I haven't gotten anything like that impression about DW's take on
> marriage, at least in any of her public writing.
Maybe it was just the impression I got from "Somebody Somewhere" when
she talked about her long-term partner at the end of the book... she
made it sound so much like they were together out of mutual help and, to
a certain extent, education/investigation, rather than love or sexual
feelings. She certainly said that she considered herself asexual, yet
had a partner.
This book was written, what, 10-20 year ago though, so DW the person
might have changed somewhat. I do not know. I have only read her older
books. I'm just very impulsive when I'm reminded of people =\
sggaB the Slug
Staight wrote:
> Maybe it was just the impression I got from "Somebody Somewhere" when
> she talked about her long-term partner at the end of the book... she
> made it sound so much like they were together out of mutual help and, to
> a certain extent, education/investigation, rather than love or sexual
> feelings. She certainly said that she considered herself asexual, yet
> had a partner.
> This book was written, what, 10-20 year ago though, so DW the person
> might have changed somewhat. I do not know. I have only read her older
> books. I'm just very impulsive when I'm reminded of people =\
Ah. In the next book (Like Color to the Blind) she basically talks about
how she is *not* asexual, how that's all a myth, and how she and her
partner use this elaborate "checking" system to make sure they're really
in love and really want to marry, rather than relying on "defensive"
logic. They eventually divorce.
The blurb for her next book (should be released any time now) refers to
that marriage as "accidental".
Tom Staight
>> she talked about her long-term partner at the end of the book... she
>> made it sound so much like they were together out of mutual help and, to
>> a certain extent, education/investigation, rather than love or sexual
>> feelings. She certainly said that she considered herself asexual, yet
>> had a partner.
>>
>> This book was written, what, 10-20 year ago though, so DW the person
>> might have changed somewhat. I do not know. I have only read her older
>> books. I'm just very impulsive when I'm reminded of people =\
>
> Ah. In the next book (Like Color to the Blind) she basically talks about
> how she is *not* asexual, how that's all a myth, and how she and her
> partner use this elaborate "checking" system to make sure they're really
> in love and really want to marry, rather than relying on "defensive"
> logic. They eventually divorce.
>
> The blurb for her next book (should be released any time now) refers to
> that marriage as "accidental".
D'oh! Well I told you I might be a bit out of date! =D I guess I
shouldn't have expected her to not have changed. In fact, I'm interested
to read her subsequent books to see what her emotions and opinions ended
up as so that I know the sort of things I might be working towards =)
(NB: I don't want to "become" or "emulate" DW, I meant only that in her
first 2 books there were many things that I could associate with, so
following the books later on, I can use her experience and see how those
similarities can be developed into more useful attributes of myself!)
Tom
Holder of the World Record for Joining the Ian/Kalen Collective Fastest.
sggaB the Slug
Staight wrote:
I'm glad you're not trying to emulate her, but be careful in which of her
techniques you adopt. I am much like her in many ways, but she's a
fallible human being like any of us and a lot of her techniques as
described in her books are essentially upside-down and inside-out. I can
see *why* some of her strategies later backfired although I can't explain
it well.
> Tom
> Holder of the World Record for Joining the Ian/Kalen Collective Fastest.
<grin>
Gareeth
>. I'm almost 18 and body isn't particularly
> important to me, so there must be something weird going on =\
You could just have an extremely low sex drive which might actually be
something to be thankful for. I have almost no drive at all and I am glad to
have my decisions aobut rerlationships free of the cloud that a strong sex
drive can cause. I felt like a freak as a teenager for awhile. Everyone else
was having feelisn I didn't and they somehow knew I didn't. Being in cadets
came to my rescue there as it often did in teendom. The low ratio of females
to males made a gaggle of guys falling at your feet pretty well a relity no
matter how disinterested you were so when I was 15 I chose one. He wrote to
me faithfully everyday for all the months between our tests in the spring
and summer camp. While at seperate summer camps I learned of his misdeeds by
a round about way when a younger sibling who had him as a staff cadet (he
was older by almost 2 years) wrote to a friend of mine. I was not bothered
by it. He had beenhelpful in that I could engage in the ritual of writing to
him during class and that silenced the kids who were making fun of me. He
did come to visit me and perhaps I would have allowed him to continue as my
boyfriend if he had not tried to make a case for letting him have sex with
any girl he pleased as long as he didn't love her and keeping me virginal
and pure until marriage. Blech. I suppose it is good he was that honest
about his needs and his plan though.
Gareeth
Gareeth
> You sound like Donna Williams! =)
> (that isn't a bad thing, I don't think, just an observation)
It's a bad thing to me as having read most of her books I never could figure
out what she was trying to say. It was in fact her descriptions about the
anatomy of a boyfriend that stopped me from reading any further.
Gareeth
Gareeth
> > Ah. In the next book (Like Color to the Blind) she basically talks
> about how she is *not* asexual, how that's all a myth, and how she
> and her partner use this elaborate "checking" system to make sure
> they're really in love and really want to marry, rather than relying
> on "defensive" logic. They eventually divorce.
>
reading. It was painfully drawn out all that explanation.
Gareeth
Gareeth
> (NB: I don't want to "become" or "emulate" DW, I meant only that in
> her first 2 books there were many things that I could associate with,
> so following the books later on, I can use her experience and see how
> those similarities can be developed into more useful attributes of
> myself!)
I'd be very careful of basing too much of what you decide to be true about
autism from that source. A lot of her reasoning appears to me to be somehwat
backwards and her how her experiences differes from the norm is often not
attributed correctly. She implies that a lot of things have to do with
autism that have better explanations. It might be her reality but it makes
her reading a bit of a trap if you have not read a lot of other stuff.
Gareeth
Gareeth
>> Yes, I feel the same way. I don't think there will be anyone to take
> care of me when I'm old, so I hope that need doesn't come, or at least
> home-based care will be more common then it is now.
>
> I also worry about having a breakdown sometime and finding myself
> unable
> to take care of myself in the ways I can right now. I'm really glad
> that
> at least one of my friends has stated that I could live with them if
> things got really desperate. But I'm still really concerned since
> most
> of my friends do not have the EF resources to help me if I really
> found myself in trouble.
I guess saying someone to look after me when I am old nicely avoids the fact
that I really do need someone to look after me now. I am feeling the full
brunt of my EF issues after just a short time home from Alberta. I actually
came close to tears at my doctors office the other day just because he was
stating the obvious with regard.
Sometimes I have found that even in friends with EF difficulty of theier own
we can help each other. I think for some reason it is often easier to do
things for otehrs. I don't know why. I noticed in Clagary I could bake
cookies and things I would not even attempt here so I began to wonder if the
actual environment doesn't hold a lot of the cues to function or
dysfunction.
People notice when I am gone and indeed even miss me but as far as being of
practical help since nealy all my friendships are in cyberspace that won't
help much.
Gareeth
sggaB the Slug
> Sometimes I have found that even in friends with EF difficulty of theier own
> we can help each other. I think for some reason it is often easier to do
> things for otehrs. I don't know why. I noticed in Clagary I could bake
> cookies and things I would not even attempt here so I began to wonder if the
> actual environment doesn't hold a lot of the cues to function or
> dysfunction.
I have noticed similar things.
Tom Staight
> I'd be very careful of basing too much of what you decide to be true about
> autism from that source. A lot of her reasoning appears to me to be somehwat
> backwards and her how her experiences differes from the norm is often not
> attributed correctly. She implies that a lot of things have to do with
> autism that have better explanations. It might be her reality but it makes
> her reading a bit of a trap if you have not read a lot of other stuff.
I haven't read many other books, although a lot of personal essays on
websites have been useful. I will remember your points though, so that I
will be careful in the future.
I strongly recommend to anyone who wants to describe Aspergers to
someone else (especially an NT) to read this:
http://www.inlv.demon.nl/subm-brain.jane.eng.html
It might be no help at all, or there may be better pages - although I
would like to know if any of you have found any really great personal
descriptions that would help NTs understand what's going on (there are
several people in my life alone: teachers, etc who could really do with
knowing). I found Marc Segar useful for myself, although his work would
not be as useful for explaining to people without experience in the
situations involved...
NatureloverChris
<< My aunt is this way. She's 93 and has been single her whole life. She
dated and was not unattractive or in anyway not "dating" material. It
was her choice. She says she doesn't regret it. She enjoys her own
company and is very close to her neices and nephews (me). She has had
a widow room mate whose children had already moved out early (who
recently passed on and so I keep in touch with her a bit more now).
She jokes with me that maybe in her next life, she'll be married.>>
I told a few people I was going to be that 'eccentric old aunt' families seem
to have that never got married and is great with the neices and nephews. They
actually seemed to understand.
chris
NatureloverChris
<< That remains an area of slight regret. I found out everything is still
working fine though so in theory it is not too late if it should happen. I
have reached a point though where I am no longer as sad by not having
reproduced as I once was. It is not like I have not shaped and enriched the
life of many children at least.>>
I don't want kids, but I am glad that I have got to enrich kids lives anyway. I
have nieces and nephews and surrogate nieces and nephews.
chris
NatureloverChris
<< I don't tend to project I'll live past the next year, if that. I always
do.>>
I can't imagine living past the next year.
chris
Gareeth
> I told a few people I was going to be that 'eccentric old aunt'
> families seem to have that never got married and is great with the
> neices and nephews. They actually seemed to understand.
I used to fear being that aunt although my particular family doesn't have
any of those I was aware of the subtype. Now I see there are far worse
things to be.
Gareeth
NatureloverChris
my family doesn't have one of those aunts either. maybe that's my role to fill.
I used to fear being that too, but the role always appealed to me too.
aunt chris
Terry Jones
>we can help each other. I think for some reason it is often easier to do
>things for otehrs. I don't know why. I noticed in Clagary I could bake
>cookies and things I would not even attempt here so I began to wonder if the
>actual environment doesn't hold a lot of the cues to function or
>dysfunction.
It does seem to be easier (for me) to do some things for other people
than to do the equivalent thing for myself. Also that I appear to be
able to get more things done when with other people. - However this
leaves me very "drained" and needing a lot of downtime. This makes me
wonder whether it is something akin to "emergency mode" - the
circumstances / environment triggering a temporary gain in capacity
which is not sustainable in the long term?
Terry
sggaB the Slug
> I used to fear being that aunt although my particular family doesn't have
> any of those I was aware of the subtype. Now I see there are far worse
> things to be.
I was never afraid of it. I knew since I was a teenager that I'd probably
either be "a cat lady or a crazy aunt", and it didn't bug me.
sggaB the Slug
Staight wrote:
> I strongly recommend to anyone who wants to describe Aspergers to
> someone else (especially an NT) to read this:
> http://www.inlv.demon.nl/subm-brain.jane.eng.html
> It might be no help at all, or there may be better pages - although I
> would like to know if any of you have found any really great personal
> descriptions that would help NTs understand what's going on (there are
> several people in my life alone: teachers, etc who could really do with
> knowing). I found Marc Segar useful for myself, although his work would
> not be as useful for explaining to people without experience in the
> situations involved...
Jane Meyerding has a web page of her own that you might like:
http://staff.washington.edu/mjane/
Jim Sinclair's page has some personal experiences among other things. I
really liked it when I was first finding out about autism. It has two web
addresses, if the first one doesn't work for whatever reason the second
will, but the first is the one that's generally supposed to be used in
case the site itself moves.
http://www.jimsinclair.org/
http://web.syr.edu/~jisincla/
I like Mary Margaret's page:
http://members.aol.com/redrock35/LittleGirlinRED.html.html
Neral from this newsgroup has a page:
http://users.telenet.be/neral/
A bunch of personal definitions of autism are here:
http://www.ani.ac/definitions.html
A bunch of ideas about autism (some experiential, some not) are here:
http://www.autistics.org/library/
This page has a lot of ideas about autism:
http://home.att.net/~ascaris1/
This page was useful to me when newly looking into autism:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/s/dspicer/
I like this one:
While this page talks, I think, about things that are more than autism,
it's got quite a lot of experiential descriptions:
http://members.aol.com/autismfg/vrfng.html
Everything linked to from here is a personal website by an autistic
person:
http://www.autistics.org/links2/Autistic_Culture/People/
Everything linked to from here is an article on autism, and many are
written by autistic people:
http://www.autistics.org/links2/Information/Articles/
(See also http://www.autistics.org/links2/Information/)
My personal "non"-autism-site has links down the right side to some things
I wrote (mostly not about autism specifically), but mostly things that
other people wrote that I found useful, although most of them (except some
under "people") aren't experiential descriptions:
I've probably forgotten some stuff, there's a lot of good stuff out there
on the web.
Seth Kneller
> Tom Staight wrote:
>
>>. I'm almost 18 and body isn't particularly
>> important to me, so there must be something weird going on =\
>
> You could just have an extremely low sex drive which might actually be
> something to be thankful for.
I'd agree with that one, having a normal to high sex drive and no-one to
have sex gets really frsutrating when you are 23 and still a virgin!
--
Seth
Hylander
Dear Aunt Chris,
Nothing wrong with being a wonderful aunt who happens to not be
married. Of course, it depends on what you really want. Its one thing
to give up on a dream and another to make a choice that makes you
happy. Dreams are something people should strive for. However, high
expectations can hurt. I completely understand though if someone feels
like they would like to avoid the hassle/like friends/prefer to manage
only themseves....
John.
PS, snoopy closet open today?
Terry Jones
>either be "a cat lady or a crazy aunt", and it didn't bug me.
I wanted to be a "mad scientist" <g> (Though not the "take over the
world" type)
Terry
Tom Staight
> It does seem to be easier (for me) to do some things for other people
> than to do the equivalent thing for myself. Also that I appear to be
> able to get more things done when with other people. - However this
> leaves me very "drained" and needing a lot of downtime. This makes me
> wonder whether it is something akin to "emergency mode" - the
> circumstances / environment triggering a temporary gain in capacity
> which is not sustainable in the long term?
Something like adrenaline? I always found that I could run my body right
into the ground by using up every last ounce of energy with adrenaline.
At least, that's how it seemed to work. I think adrenaline helps me
perform in social situations, but it also makes tired quickly. I can get
stressed quicker, but stress seems less likely to happen... not sure why
or how, but as I said, that's the observation...
Lawrence Foard
The bay area has a good sized 'mad scientist' underground. Some quite
impressive experiments in peoples living rooms. I doubt there are many
'mad scientists' that actually care about taking over the world. Running
the world would distract from the pursuit of science. Power is something
thats more fun to play with as a game. You don't need to take over the
world, just prove to yourself you could do it if you so felt inclined :)
--
Laughter-Confusion, Pleasure-Pain, Happyness-Sadness, Excitement-Fear,
Love-Hate, etc. The true primary emotions, a modifier makes each into two.
This modifier is acceptance/unacceptance. Let go, surrender, accept...
Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness
Tom Staight
I'm not sure if I have a low sex drive, as much as I would rather be in
a *relationship* than simply screw someone... is that a bit direct? I
understand that an awful lot of Men say personality is most important,
when they are in fact lying, but I don't see the point in choosing
someone for their body when you can't stand to talk to them. I need
someone who will understand me and be a friend. I have had sex before,
and it was because of "peer pressure" and that sort of thing, and it
wasn't really on any basis other than for the sake of having it, and it
not only destroyed my desire for "just having sex" but it also put me
off relationships in general for at least a year, but probably more.
sggaB the Slug
Kneller wrote:
>> You could just have an extremely low sex drive which might actually be
>> something to be thankful for.
> I'd agree with that one, having a normal to high sex drive and no-one to
> have sex gets really frsutrating when you are 23 and still a virgin!
I'd agree with that, although at least my sex drive is binary -- it's
either on or off, and when it's off it doesn't bug me at all. When it's
on it's *very* on.
Seth Kneller
> Seth Kneller wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:51:39 -0800, Gareeth wrote:
>>
>>>Tom Staight wrote:
>>>
>>>>. I'm almost 18 and body isn't particularly
>>>>important to me, so there must be something weird going on =\
>>>
>>>You could just have an extremely low sex drive which might actually be
>>>something to be thankful for.
>>
>> I'd agree with that one, having a normal to high sex drive and no-one to
>> have sex gets really frsutrating when you are 23 and still a virgin!
>
> I'm not sure if I have a low sex drive, as much as I would rather be in
> a *relationship* than simply screw someone... is that a bit direct?
Well probably, but I know what you mean. I have refused so far to pay for
sex on those grounds. I think I would like to get to know someone a least
a bit before we had sex, but really more because I might not be
comfortable just 'getting on with it'. If you have never done something
before, how do you know what to do - and how do you know you're doing it
right!?!
--
Seth
Tom Staight
> In article <pan.2004.01.11....@autismisanotherworld.com>, Seth
> Kneller wrote:
>
>>>You could just have an extremely low sex drive which might actually be
>>>something to be thankful for.
>>
>>I'd agree with that one, having a normal to high sex drive and no-one to
>>have sex gets really frsutrating when you are 23 and still a virgin!
>
> I'd agree with that, although at least my sex drive is binary -- it's
> either on or off, and when it's off it doesn't bug me at all. When it's
> on it's *very* on.
I get that sort of feeling, although I thought it was normal. Maybe
that's another thing I mistook for being normal when it was just me
being weird! =\ To me, either the "chemical" aspects of my body are
active, or they are not active. I thought it was that simple, but it
could be an over-simplification on my part.
sggaB the Slug
wrote:
> I get that sort of feeling, although I thought it was normal. Maybe
> that's another thing I mistook for being normal when it was just me
> being weird! =\ To me, either the "chemical" aspects of my body are
> active, or they are not active. I thought it was that simple, but it
> could be an over-simplification on my part.
I think most people have an in-between state. Or at least more of one than
I do.
Seth Kneller
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:10:00 +0000, Tom Staight <use...@templeofdreams.net>
> wrote:
>> I get that sort of feeling, although I thought it was normal. Maybe
>> that's another thing I mistook for being normal when it was just me
>> being weird! =\ To me, either the "chemical" aspects of my body are
>> active, or they are not active. I thought it was that simple, but it
>> could be an over-simplification on my part.
>
> I think most people have an in-between state. Or at least more of one than
> I do.
I have always been told that I see things very much in black and white -
i.e. binary. Someone is either my best mate or my worst enemy - well its
not that bad now, I do have some grey in there! But anyway, if this binary
state is common in other aspects of life with autistics then is it common
in terms of sex drive? I don't know, I would say mine is continously
variable (i.e. has shades of grey).
--
Seth
Tom Staight
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:10:00 +0000, Tom Staight <use...@templeofdreams.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I get that sort of feeling, although I thought it was normal. Maybe
>>that's another thing I mistook for being normal when it was just me
>>being weird! =\ To me, either the "chemical" aspects of my body are
>>active, or they are not active. I thought it was that simple, but it
>>could be an over-simplification on my part.
>
> I think most people have an in-between state. Or at least more of one than
> I do.
I definitely don't. Maybe for me (or us??) it is "binary" when it should
be "analogue"... at least that's how I view it.
Jeremy Reece
> Someone please, dear lord, explain to me what Aspie code is!
It's one of those cryptic looking codes some of us tend to put in our
signatures <points down at own sig>.
Joel's original spec for the code is here:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=top-poster-1-122%40bigsky.antelope.net>
(watch out for possible line-wrapping in that link)
You can decode them here: <http://www32.brinkster.com/ascdecode>
and Hylander has a online gizmo for creating them somewhere (can't
find a link - the one on the linkpage seems broken :( ).
Actually, I don't *think* the decoder will properly handle what Matt
is trying to describe... In fact I know it won't. I'll try and fix
that if/when I get a free minute.
--
Jeremy Reece
AS! d(---) s:-->: a-- c+++ p+ t+(-)@ f(-) S+
p+ e+>++ h+ r--(*) n+() i@ P->+ m(-) M---
http://www32.brinkster.com/ascdecode
Tom Staight
> Tom Staight wrote:
>
>>Someone please, dear lord, explain to me what Aspie code is!
>
> It's one of those cryptic looking codes some of us tend to put in our
> signatures <points down at own sig>.
>
> Joel's original spec for the code is here:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=top-poster-1-122%40bigsky.antelope.net>
> (watch out for possible line-wrapping in that link)
>
> You can decode them here: <http://www32.brinkster.com/ascdecode>
> and Hylander has a online gizmo for creating them somewhere (can't
> find a link - the one on the linkpage seems broken :( ).
>
> Actually, I don't *think* the decoder will properly handle what Matt
> is trying to describe... In fact I know it won't. I'll try and fix
> that if/when I get a free minute.
Yay! So mine is... AS! AA? d-(--) s++:- a--- c++@ p+ t f-@ S+ p++@ e-
h-- r- n+ n@ i+@ P+ m M+@ ...annoyingly to many people I look like a
normal but quite lazy teenager, which is a problem when I have problems
with inertia and *understanding* education.
Arak Thaylann
> Anyway, what have other autistic people's experiences been? It must be
> possible for someone like me to find love. And also, what is the best
> way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
> than just different and that there's a name for it too?
Of course it's possible to find love. You'll find that some folks
here are married, engaged, dating or happily single (or not happily
single... take your pick), so lots of people will have good ideas.
I found that most of time I was not looking when someone asked me to
date them. I'm female and not bad looking, so I didn't have to try at
all.
However, these relationships never lasted long because of my
abhorrence to sex and even greater abhorrence to kissing (anything
beyond just a peck on the cheek, etc makes me sick). I was always up
front about right from the start, but some of these guys just figured
I was playing hard to get. When they realized that I was serious when
I said "no sex until I trust you completely", they ran off pronto!
Anyway, out of all of that I've somehow managed to get engaged! (On
Christmas of this year) My fiance is not a big kisser either and
seems to prefer to wait until after we're married to have sex, so we
have no issues there at all. We are of the same faith path and met at
a religious event years ago. We became friends and the rest just sort
of fell into place.
You're a college student, so I'm sure there are a lot of ways to meet
people of similar interests or become friends with people. All of my
relationships started out as friendships. Maybe try the friendship
route with a nice girl and if it develops into more than that, go with
it.
My fiance was not aware of my autism when I first met him, but as we
grew to know each other more, I told him I was autistic, and he told
me he has ADD. We've had a few scuffles because he did not understand
me too well, thinking at autism is just like ADD. I lent him a book
that was written by Gail Gillingham, whose writing reflects a lot of
what I go through daily and he seems to understand me more.
I'm slowly learning about ADD as well, so I can understand him too.
As long as we communicate to each other and try our best to understand
each other, we should do ok.
If you do meet a special someone...even just a friend, it is good to
wait until you know your friendship is a little more solid and you
both trust each other before coming out with the autism diagnosis.
Explain Autism/Asperger's in a positive sense and in a way that your
friend will understand. Perhaps your friend might be hiding
something that you may need to understand too.
Be open, be natural and don't rush things. Most people find that they
find their mates when they stop looking and just start living.
Arak /|\
sggaB the Slug
<se...@autismisanotherworld.com> wrote:
> I have always been told that I see things very much in black and white -
> i.e. binary. Someone is either my best mate or my worst enemy - well its
> not that bad now, I do have some grey in there! But anyway, if this binary
> state is common in other aspects of life with autistics then is it common
> in terms of sex drive? I don't know, I would say mine is continously
> variable (i.e. has shades of grey).
I actually don't have the friend/enemy thing -- to me the vast majority of
people are somewhere in between. But i do seem to have a *very* binary
sex drive.
Jeremy Reece
> Actually, I don't *think* the decoder will properly handle what Matt
> is trying to describe... In fact I know it won't.
It does now :)
<boring stuff>
The problem was that the '!' modifier in all blocks except autism type
and dress should cause any other tokens to be ignored as it normally
means "[xyz] is none of your business, thank you very much". In the
dress block it has a different meaning so it's now been changed such
that it doesn't ignore other tokens in the that block, hence things
like d-(!) and d->! are now okay and should come out as expected :)
</boring stuff>
--
Jeremy Reece
AS! d-(---) s:-->: a-- c+++ p+ t+(-)@ f(-)
S+ p+ e+>++ h+ r--(*) n+() i@ P->+ m(-) M---
Jeremy Reece
> Yay! So mine is... AS! AA? d-(--) s++:- a--- c++@ p+ t f-@ S+ p++@ e-
> h-- r- n+ n@ i+@ P+ m M+@
You know you've spent too long perseverating on Autistic Spectrum
Codes when...
...you can see a new one and read it as if it were writen in English
:)
Posting your code caused a *huge* spike in hits, BTW, somewhere in the
region of 25-30 people have used the decoder in the last 12 hours or
so, that's an all time record <g> (although it's only been live about
four months)
--
Jeremy Reece
AS! d-(---) s:-->: a-- c+++ p+ t+(-)@ f(-)
S+ p+ e+>++ h+ r--(*) n+() i@ P->+ m(-) M---
Hylander
> Jeremy Reece wrote:
>
> > Tom Staight wrote:
> >
> >>Someone please, dear lord, explain to me what Aspie code is!
> >
> > It's one of those cryptic looking codes some of us tend to put in our
> > signatures <points down at own sig>.
> >
> > Joel's original spec for the code is here:
> > <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=top-poster-1-122%40bigsky.antelope.net>
> > (watch out for possible line-wrapping in that link)
> >
> > You can decode them here: <http://www32.brinkster.com/ascdecode>
> > and Hylander has a online gizmo for creating them somewhere (can't
> > find a link - the one on the linkpage seems broken :( ).
http://www.johngagon.com/aspie/code.jsp
Someone probably linked to an older IP address. my addresses have
changed since I have moved. The "encoder" only partially automates the
process...you have to add your own doodads for enhancement. I might
make it more fully featured when I get a moment. ;) I might use
Jeremy's excellent exceptional case/rules handling as a guide. (ie:
his will consider that ! (refuse to discuss) supercedes any other
subcodes like wannabe ratings.)
> > Actually, I don't *think* the decoder will properly handle what Matt
> > is trying to describe... In fact I know it won't. I'll try and fix
> > that if/when I get a free minute.
>
> Yay! So mine is... AS! AA? d-(--) s++:- a--- c++@ p+ t f-@ S+ p++@ e-
> h-- r- n+ n@ i+@ P+ m M+@ ...annoyingly to many people I look like a
> normal but quite lazy teenager, which is a problem when I have problems
> with inertia and *understanding* education.
I enjoy taking the sigs and putting them in the decoder and reading
it. I can however make a lot of sense by looking at it. I might need
to retrain my reading of the code.
John
NatureloverChris
<< Dear Aunt Chris,
Nothing wrong with being a wonderful aunt who happens to not be
married. Of course, it depends on what you really want. Its one thing
to give up on a dream and another to make a choice that makes you
happy. Dreams are something people should strive for. However, high
expectations can hurt. I completely understand though if someone feels
like they would like to avoid the hassle/like friends/prefer to manage
only themseves....
John.>>
:)
I never wanted to be married. I remember once when I was young i tried very
hard to imagine being married with kids and I finally imagined someone being
married, but then I realized it wasn't me. it looked like a soap opera type of
woman. being aunt chris makes me happy. my dream has always been just me and
animals.
<<PS, snoopy closet open today?>>
no, the keeper is very far away :(
aunt chris
Tom Staight
> Tom Staight wrote:
>
>>Yay! So mine is... AS! AA? d-(--) s++:- a--- c++@ p+ t f-@ S+ p++@ e-
>>h-- r- n+ n@ i+@ P+ m M+@
>
> You know you've spent too long perseverating on Autistic Spectrum
> Codes when...
>
> ....you can see a new one and read it as if it were writen in English
> :)
>
> Posting your code caused a *huge* spike in hits, BTW, somewhere in the
> region of 25-30 people have used the decoder in the last 12 hours or
> so, that's an all time record <g> (although it's only been live about
> four months)
How many of them were from my IP?
I kinda checked each block as I went through... oops.
=)
Tom Staight
>>>Actually, I don't *think* the decoder will properly handle what Matt
>>>is trying to describe... In fact I know it won't. I'll try and fix
>>>that if/when I get a free minute.
>>
>>Yay! So mine is... AS! AA? d-(--) s++:- a--- c++@ p+ t f-@ S+ p++@ e-
>>h-- r- n+ n@ i+@ P+ m M+@ ...annoyingly to many people I look like a
>>normal but quite lazy teenager, which is a problem when I have problems
>>with inertia and *understanding* education.
>
> I enjoy taking the sigs and putting them in the decoder and reading
> it. I can however make a lot of sense by looking at it. I might need
> to retrain my reading of the code.
Ahahaha this isn't a real one, so I'm not being so cruel... I think I
just have a very odd sense of humor, but can someone please tell me I'm
not the only one to find this funny...
AS a h n+ t++ S-- i-- c+++ dx P++ p+++ r m-- e-- s+++ s--- M--- f--- p--
(note: "Some people know I'm different, but they can't figure out why")
Hylander
Block Type Value
Meaning
Autism Type AS
Asperger's Syndrome (no official diagnosis).
Age a
I am 30 to 39 years old.
Housing h
I live in a basic apartment.
Neuro-typical Emulation n+
I think some people know I'm different, but they can't figure out
why.
Transit t++
I ride buses and trains for fun.
Sensory Issues S--
I have very insensitive senses.
Inertia i--
I am a "go-getter", always doing things like cleaning my house and
paying my bills.
Computing Knowledge c+++
I can program and run a network well.
Dressing Habits dx
I tend to cross dress.
Pets P++
I have many cats/dogs/whatevers.
Perseverations p+++
I am currently perseverating on more then 10 things.
Romantic Relationships r
I date frequently.
Maths m--
I can do maths?! Me? Not likely!.
Education e--
I haven't even started high school.
Shape s+++
With regards to my height, I have to duck through doors.
With regards to my weight, I am an average autistic.
Shape s---
With regards to my height, I have to take a phone book with me when I
go out so I can see to eat dinner.
With regards to my weight, I am an average autistic.
Musical Ability M---
I find that cats run away when I sing or play an instrument.
Facial Recognition f---
I can't even recognize my immediate family.
Politics p--
I am very conservative.
Yes. it was funny :)
Tom Staight
Hmmm it doesn't look like it made the code correctly =(
It was supposed to be a cross dressing midget who took up 3 seats, who
frightened cats away with their music, and people thought there was
something strange about them but didn't know what! =\ I couldn't stop
giggling for some reason =)
Oh and they haven't had any education, but that was just thrown in
because I can't help but check all the boxes =D
Hylander
I did see the music that frightened cats away bit. I actually noted
some of the silly and funny exaggerations right away and couldn't help
but laugh too. Very creative. ;)
> Oh and they haven't had any education, but that was just thrown in
> because I can't help but check all the boxes =D
We could rewrite the code to add redneck jokes. ;)
John
Jeremy Reece
> How many of them were from my IP?
>
> I kinda checked each block as I went through... oops.
>
> =)
Dunno... I haven't got that kind of functionality (because: (a) I
refuse point blank to pay for a hit counter and (b) I don't want any
more ads on it than the hosting provider already puts there).
It doesn't matter though... Something tells me that McDonalds count
the burgers they sell to themselves in the "Over ???bn served" signs
:) . If you *really* want to stop the counter incrementing though,
tick the little box with no caption at the very bottom of the page ;)
Tom Staight
Make it so, Mr Data! =D
herculles
>
> I made one post here earlier, but this can be considered my
> introduction. I am a 19-year-old college student who's only been
> diagnosed with an autism-spectrum disorder--they didn't bother to
> distinguish it from Asperger's. I probably won't be a frequent poster,
> but I will post occasionally--when I'm feeling particularly
> autisticized. And, yes, "Neant Humain" is French: It means "Nothing
> Human," which is how I feel sometimes.
>
> One thing I've already discovered while browsing this newsgroup is the
> Autistic Spectrum Code (modeled after the Geek Code, I assume). I know
> it's a pretty simplistic, even trite way to introduce myself, but here
> is my autististic spectrum code:
>
> { AS! d- s: a--- c+++ p+ t@ f++ S+ p(++) e+>++ h-->+ r-->+ c+ i P+
> m+>++ M }
>
> As is now known, I'm a young college student, and so that means I have
> more than academics on my mind. As my autistic code says, I've never
> technically been on a date before; and, as a college student, I've
> been opening myself up to new opportunities. I've found I'm at a
> profound disadvantage at getting to know women. In high school, I
> never flirted or even thought I could pull something like that off.
> Now, I don't want old fears to stand in my way. Unfortunately, I think
> it shows I haven't done this before.
>
> I have found it easier to talk to women the more I talk to them.
> Flirting is especially tricky because it's probably the most nuanced
> form of conversation around. Apparently, I'm not that horrible at
> flirting because I have been able to talk with someone on several
> occasions, but I think she was being forgiving because I seemed so
> nice. She's accepted a date, but I haven't heard back from her since.
> I can always hope for a second chance, I guess. I was really starting
> to like her too, but I guess she had second thoughts.
>
> Anyway, what have other autistic people's experiences been? It must be
> possible for someone like me to find love. And also, what is the best
> way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
> pretty disingenuous to tell someone you have Asperber's the day after
> they marry you, but you wouldn't want to scare someone off before they
> got to know you as a person and not a so-called disorder.
I think you are flirting with disaster! GEt yourself so far into a
conversation, misread it and before you know it, you are dumped!
"It isn't that bad being a superhero."
Sarah
> Hello, everyone,
>
I'm a female NT so I'm not sure how much help I can be but I can give
my view on men and flirting etc.
> As is now known, I'm a young college student, and so that means I have
> more than academics on my mind. As my autistic code says, I've never
> technically been on a date before; and, as a college student, I've
> been opening myself up to new opportunities. I've found I'm at a
> profound disadvantage at getting to know women. In high school, I
> never flirted or even thought I could pull something like that off.
> Now, I don't want old fears to stand in my way. Unfortunately, I think
> it shows I haven't done this before.
>
It would probably be better then to find women with similar interests
that you can get to know well before getting to more sexual matters.
Night clubs etc would probably be bad places for you. If you're a
student there must be a lot of things you can join to meet people.
> I have found it easier to talk to women the more I talk to them.
> Flirting is especially tricky because it's probably the most nuanced
> form of conversation around. Apparently, I'm not that horrible at
> flirting because I have been able to talk with someone on several
> occasions, but I think she was being forgiving because I seemed so
> nice. She's accepted a date, but I haven't heard back from her since.
> I can always hope for a second chance, I guess. I was really starting
> to like her too, but I guess she had second thoughts.
>
Maybe she did. Don't let it put you off though. When I was a single
parent I thought that noone's going to want to have a relationship
with me because my experiences until then had been based on single
people meeting, but that wasn't true and I'm married now. I think
everybbody finds relationships difficult, even if they appear
otherwise, and everybody gets nervous on dates and when asking people
out, even if they appear very confident.
> Anyway, what have other autistic people's experiences been? It must be
> possible for someone like me to find love. And also, what is the best
> way and when is the best time to let someone know that you're more
> than just different and that there's a name for it too? It would seem
> pretty disingenuous to tell someone you have Asperber's the day after
> they marry you, but you wouldn't want to scare someone off before they
> got to know you as a person and not a so-called disorder.
My ex has autism and I didn't know that at the time. I think it would
have helped to know because then I wouldn't have blamed him for so
many things like not being able to tidy up after himself (which was
way more extreme than just 'untidyness' which caused so much tension.
I'd say if things are going well then it's worth telling them anout
it. If things are going well then you might find yourself telling
them about it naturally without having to plan.
Good luck.
Sarah
Sarah
> Tom Staight wrote:
> >
> > If only I could meet an Aspiegirl and live happily ever after!
>
> I am not sure it works that way. I did "date" a fellow autis guy I met on
> the net for several years but dealing with him in person no matter hwo sweet
> he was was still overwhelming for me.
That's really interesting. I'd often thought about the people here and
whether I would be able to cope with them in real life. Sammy is a
handful. Talking like this is fairly easy and it must hide a lot of
things that as an NT would worry me or whatever and I may not then
talk so much. (I hope this sin't taken the wrong way).
Perhaps NT marriages are struggles too
> though.
>
Yes! Definetly! I have my share of problems that need managing that
are not due to having autism.
Sarah