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A decade on - personal musings
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Dolphinius
Mar 24, 2012, 5:08:51 PM3/24/12
to
It is exactly ten years today since I made my first post to ASA.
My perspectives have changed a lot over those ten years. I still think
I am autistic, but I think I have learnt (and am still learning) how
to overcome my natural autistic deficiencies. Meanwhile I am
continuing to play to my autistic strengths.
I feel though, less autistic than I once was. I think I have learnt
(slowly) some things that NTs learn quickly. However, I haven't lost
any of the mental processing power that I think was gifted to me as an
autistic. I still feel like I have super powers in some respects
(while being a dunce in other areas of my life).
I am now doing some things that most people would not think an
autistic capable of doing. I don't want to mention what they are, but
they involve some people management and good all-round skills. I know
I could do better, but I am not necesasarily doing worse than NTs who
have tried to do the same things.
I am starting to relate more to descriptions I read of a schizoid
personality. I thought for years I wanted a relationship and was
missing out, but I realise now I definitely do not want one. It is
complicated, but I think I am realising that I don't even really want
one with someone who understands me. I don't really want anyone to
understand me. I like being on my own. I like doing worthwhile and
interesting things and I don't need other people to do enjoy doing
them. Maybe autistics who gain NT skills evolve into schizoids? Or
maybe I am just an autistic with a schizoid bent? I don't know.
Having given up on relationships, I seem to be becoming a nicer
person. I am more courteous and do more things to try to make other
peoples' lives better. However, I can't get away from the fact that I
don't really care about other people even though I do a lot of
voluntary work for charities and give money to charity. I think what
drives me is a stoic sense of wanting to do something virtuous rather
than feeling for people who are disadvantaged. That doesn't sound
good, but I hope that those who would look badly on me for it won't
mind if it generates a good result for society.
Most people who posted on ASA when I joined are no longer here (though
it is good to see Catriona still around). Any long-standing posters
may be surprised to hear that my favourite poster of all time was
D****y (one of his many names). He was trying to destroy the group,
but his posts revealed an amazing brain. And he didn't destroy the
group because some of us just kept going through the noise. If D***y
couldn't do it then no-one ever will.
sggaB also had an amazing brain. She is gone, but can be found
elsewhere.
I have met one person who posted on ASA. It is a long time since we
have had any contact, but I hope they are doing well.
If I had to pick one current poster from ASA I would like to meet
(just once), it would be Aquarian Monkey. I really admire the way she
has embraced autism and sees the positives side of it. It won't happen
though as we are on different continents (and there are lots of other
places in the world I would want to visit before returning to the
USA).
There are lots of people who I remember as other "giants" of ASA such
as Joel, Terry, the L person, Chris, Neral (and many many more, some
of whom haven't posted here for a long time). If I haven't mentioned
you I might well respect you highly. Or I might have no view about you
at all. However, I can't remember having negative views about anyone.
I wish you all well.
I mustn't forget Bob, though I have thanked him before for something
he said that steered me in the right direction at an important
juncture of my life.
Something I think is amusing is that I am a long way off the top 10
posters list, and some of those on the too 10 posters list finished
posting before I even started posting to ASA!
I hope I have helped a few people on ASA, even if just a little bit.
ASA has helped me, mainly just through being a way to have a tiny bit
of social contact in a largely impersonal way.
My best wishes to you all.
Dolphinius
(Male, age 40 +/- a few months, UK, self-diagnosed AS)
My perspectives have changed a lot over those ten years. I still think
I am autistic, but I think I have learnt (and am still learning) how
to overcome my natural autistic deficiencies. Meanwhile I am
continuing to play to my autistic strengths.
I feel though, less autistic than I once was. I think I have learnt
(slowly) some things that NTs learn quickly. However, I haven't lost
any of the mental processing power that I think was gifted to me as an
autistic. I still feel like I have super powers in some respects
(while being a dunce in other areas of my life).
I am now doing some things that most people would not think an
autistic capable of doing. I don't want to mention what they are, but
they involve some people management and good all-round skills. I know
I could do better, but I am not necesasarily doing worse than NTs who
have tried to do the same things.
I am starting to relate more to descriptions I read of a schizoid
personality. I thought for years I wanted a relationship and was
missing out, but I realise now I definitely do not want one. It is
complicated, but I think I am realising that I don't even really want
one with someone who understands me. I don't really want anyone to
understand me. I like being on my own. I like doing worthwhile and
interesting things and I don't need other people to do enjoy doing
them. Maybe autistics who gain NT skills evolve into schizoids? Or
maybe I am just an autistic with a schizoid bent? I don't know.
Having given up on relationships, I seem to be becoming a nicer
person. I am more courteous and do more things to try to make other
peoples' lives better. However, I can't get away from the fact that I
don't really care about other people even though I do a lot of
voluntary work for charities and give money to charity. I think what
drives me is a stoic sense of wanting to do something virtuous rather
than feeling for people who are disadvantaged. That doesn't sound
good, but I hope that those who would look badly on me for it won't
mind if it generates a good result for society.
Most people who posted on ASA when I joined are no longer here (though
it is good to see Catriona still around). Any long-standing posters
may be surprised to hear that my favourite poster of all time was
D****y (one of his many names). He was trying to destroy the group,
but his posts revealed an amazing brain. And he didn't destroy the
group because some of us just kept going through the noise. If D***y
couldn't do it then no-one ever will.
sggaB also had an amazing brain. She is gone, but can be found
elsewhere.
I have met one person who posted on ASA. It is a long time since we
have had any contact, but I hope they are doing well.
If I had to pick one current poster from ASA I would like to meet
(just once), it would be Aquarian Monkey. I really admire the way she
has embraced autism and sees the positives side of it. It won't happen
though as we are on different continents (and there are lots of other
places in the world I would want to visit before returning to the
USA).
There are lots of people who I remember as other "giants" of ASA such
as Joel, Terry, the L person, Chris, Neral (and many many more, some
of whom haven't posted here for a long time). If I haven't mentioned
you I might well respect you highly. Or I might have no view about you
at all. However, I can't remember having negative views about anyone.
I wish you all well.
I mustn't forget Bob, though I have thanked him before for something
he said that steered me in the right direction at an important
juncture of my life.
Something I think is amusing is that I am a long way off the top 10
posters list, and some of those on the too 10 posters list finished
posting before I even started posting to ASA!
I hope I have helped a few people on ASA, even if just a little bit.
ASA has helped me, mainly just through being a way to have a tiny bit
of social contact in a largely impersonal way.
My best wishes to you all.
Dolphinius
(Male, age 40 +/- a few months, UK, self-diagnosed AS)
Zed
Mar 25, 2012, 2:41:54 AM3/25/12
to
I've always appreciated your posts, Dolphinius.
Perhaps this is like the tinnitus group. Some people only stay with it
as long as they feel they have a problem to resolve, or try to resolve
those of others. That's probably why I don't come by too often. Autism
has really only been a problem regarding other people in the world
around me. I believe that if I, hypothetically speaking, grew up alone
on a deserted island, I wouldn't have any issues regarding my autism.
I'm sure that I would thrive and be happy as a clam. I'm old enough
now to not care much about caring what people think and making my
mark, even though society demands it.
I too reached heights that I thought I'd never reach vocationally as a
multitasking manager for several years. Looking back, which I try not
to do, I realize that I put myself through way too much discomfort and
stress. I find that being able to pull off the NT makes for a lot of
wear and tear. Now I'm back to working by myself, as I always
should've been. But at least I can honestly say that I gave it a shot
and was successful.
Funny thing is, a lot of NT's wind up all alone in the long run. I
figure, why not cut out the middleman?
Perhaps this is like the tinnitus group. Some people only stay with it
as long as they feel they have a problem to resolve, or try to resolve
those of others. That's probably why I don't come by too often. Autism
has really only been a problem regarding other people in the world
around me. I believe that if I, hypothetically speaking, grew up alone
on a deserted island, I wouldn't have any issues regarding my autism.
I'm sure that I would thrive and be happy as a clam. I'm old enough
now to not care much about caring what people think and making my
mark, even though society demands it.
I too reached heights that I thought I'd never reach vocationally as a
multitasking manager for several years. Looking back, which I try not
to do, I realize that I put myself through way too much discomfort and
stress. I find that being able to pull off the NT makes for a lot of
wear and tear. Now I'm back to working by myself, as I always
should've been. But at least I can honestly say that I gave it a shot
and was successful.
Funny thing is, a lot of NT's wind up all alone in the long run. I
figure, why not cut out the middleman?
Aquarian Monkey
Apr 18, 2012, 5:04:46 PM4/18/12
to
Ha! I only just saw this! I am honored that you said you'd like to meet me :) Though I may not be so impressive IRL. I have no superpowers and am not always very interesting LOL! Plus, I do think that my kids have had a lot to do with my ability to embrace autism. I really don't have any complaints about them. They are really easy to love (not that others on the spectrum aren't)and it is very difficult for me to imagine them being anyone other than who they are, so it is easy for me to be happy with what I've got! :) Now, if the rest of the world would just agree with me, I'd be in business.
You know, I can only remember 2 people with SPD from my psych days and I have to admit, that when I look back at them, I think one was most definitely a misdiagnosed Aspie, maybe even both. Except one of them seemed more...eccentric than the other. It wasn't like he was psychotic or anything. But his thoughts seemed odd both in content and process. I realize that many people on the spectrum present as "quirky" but this seemed a little different. At least different from the thought processes I generally see here. At any rate, my impression of you as you present here is more in line with the one who I think was misdiagnosed.
FWIW, I do not think that not wanting a relationship is a sign of a personality disorder. I think it is ridiculous to pathologize something like that. For me, personally, I have no desire to enter into another relationship. At all. I mean, if life hands me someone who I am somehow perfectly compatible with, it is not like I would go out of my way to avoid it, but I am not *looking* for it and I will not be unhappy if it never happens. I don't see that as a flaw or a disorder. I see it as just me not having a problem being by myself and finding not having to try to maintain a relationship a refreshing change.
I question whether or not you truly don't care about other people. Are you sure it is that you don't care? Or is it that you are just not enmeshed with other people? I ask because you have always been very kind and helpful to me, and I don't think you are doing it because of a stoic sense of virtuosity. I think it is because you like me and you want to help me as I try to help my kids. The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time (that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people are.
Among the people who I am sad to not see upon my return are: Terry, the L person, Chris, Gareeth, Jeremy, and Arak. There are others, too, of course, but when I came back here, they are people who I wondered "hmm...I wonder how they are?" I know Chris and Jeremy have been gone along time. I think at least Arak was still around the last time I posed here.
You have definitely been helpful to me, and I am thankful to know you.
You know, I can only remember 2 people with SPD from my psych days and I have to admit, that when I look back at them, I think one was most definitely a misdiagnosed Aspie, maybe even both. Except one of them seemed more...eccentric than the other. It wasn't like he was psychotic or anything. But his thoughts seemed odd both in content and process. I realize that many people on the spectrum present as "quirky" but this seemed a little different. At least different from the thought processes I generally see here. At any rate, my impression of you as you present here is more in line with the one who I think was misdiagnosed.
FWIW, I do not think that not wanting a relationship is a sign of a personality disorder. I think it is ridiculous to pathologize something like that. For me, personally, I have no desire to enter into another relationship. At all. I mean, if life hands me someone who I am somehow perfectly compatible with, it is not like I would go out of my way to avoid it, but I am not *looking* for it and I will not be unhappy if it never happens. I don't see that as a flaw or a disorder. I see it as just me not having a problem being by myself and finding not having to try to maintain a relationship a refreshing change.
I question whether or not you truly don't care about other people. Are you sure it is that you don't care? Or is it that you are just not enmeshed with other people? I ask because you have always been very kind and helpful to me, and I don't think you are doing it because of a stoic sense of virtuosity. I think it is because you like me and you want to help me as I try to help my kids. The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time (that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people are.
Among the people who I am sad to not see upon my return are: Terry, the L person, Chris, Gareeth, Jeremy, and Arak. There are others, too, of course, but when I came back here, they are people who I wondered "hmm...I wonder how they are?" I know Chris and Jeremy have been gone along time. I think at least Arak was still around the last time I posed here.
You have definitely been helpful to me, and I am thankful to know you.
Bob Badour
Apr 19, 2012, 12:17:43 AM4/19/12
to
On 4/18/2012 2:04 PM, Aquarian Monkey wrote:
> Ha! I only just saw this! I am honored that you said you'd like to meet me :) Though I may not be so impressive IRL. I have no superpowers and am not always very interesting LOL! Plus, I do think that my kids have had a lot to do with my ability to embrace autism. I really don't have any complaints about them. They are really easy to love (not that others on the spectrum aren't)and it is very difficult for me to imagine them being anyone other than who they are, so it is easy for me to be happy with what I've got! :) Now, if the rest of the world would just agree with me, I'd be in business.
>
> You know, I can only remember 2 people with SPD from my psych days and I have to admit, that when I look back at them, I think one was most definitely a misdiagnosed Aspie, maybe even both. Except one of them seemed more...eccentric than the other. It wasn't like he was psychotic or anything. But his thoughts seemed odd both in content and process. I realize that many people on the spectrum present as "quirky" but this seemed a little different. At least different from the thought processes I generally see here. At any rate, my impression of you as you present here is more in line with the one who I think was misdiagnosed.
>
> FWIW, I do not think that not wanting a relationship is a sign of a personality disorder. I think it is ridiculous to pathologize something like that. For me, personally, I have no desire to enter into another relationship. At all. I mean, if life hands me someone who I am somehow perfectly compatible with, it is not like I would go out of my way to avoid it, but I am not *looking* for it and I will not be unhappy if it never happens. I don't see that as a flaw or a disorder. I see it as just me not having a problem being by myself and finding not having to try to maintain a relationship a refreshing change.
>
> I question whether or not you truly don't care about other people. Are you sure it is that you don't care? Or is it that you are just not enmeshed with other people? I ask because you have always been very kind and helpful to me, and I don't think you are doing it because of a stoic sense of virtuosity. I think it is because you like me and you want to help me as I try to help my kids. The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time (that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people are.
>
> Among the people who I am sad to not see upon my return are: Terry, the L person, Chris, Gareeth, Jeremy, and Arak. There are others, too, of course, but when I came back here, they are people who I wondered "hmm...I wonder how they are?" I know Chris and Jeremy have been gone along time. I think at least Arak was still around the last time I posed here.
The L person has been around in recent memory; except, perhaps
> Ha! I only just saw this! I am honored that you said you'd like to meet me :) Though I may not be so impressive IRL. I have no superpowers and am not always very interesting LOL! Plus, I do think that my kids have had a lot to do with my ability to embrace autism. I really don't have any complaints about them. They are really easy to love (not that others on the spectrum aren't)and it is very difficult for me to imagine them being anyone other than who they are, so it is easy for me to be happy with what I've got! :) Now, if the rest of the world would just agree with me, I'd be in business.
>
> You know, I can only remember 2 people with SPD from my psych days and I have to admit, that when I look back at them, I think one was most definitely a misdiagnosed Aspie, maybe even both. Except one of them seemed more...eccentric than the other. It wasn't like he was psychotic or anything. But his thoughts seemed odd both in content and process. I realize that many people on the spectrum present as "quirky" but this seemed a little different. At least different from the thought processes I generally see here. At any rate, my impression of you as you present here is more in line with the one who I think was misdiagnosed.
>
> FWIW, I do not think that not wanting a relationship is a sign of a personality disorder. I think it is ridiculous to pathologize something like that. For me, personally, I have no desire to enter into another relationship. At all. I mean, if life hands me someone who I am somehow perfectly compatible with, it is not like I would go out of my way to avoid it, but I am not *looking* for it and I will not be unhappy if it never happens. I don't see that as a flaw or a disorder. I see it as just me not having a problem being by myself and finding not having to try to maintain a relationship a refreshing change.
>
> I question whether or not you truly don't care about other people. Are you sure it is that you don't care? Or is it that you are just not enmeshed with other people? I ask because you have always been very kind and helpful to me, and I don't think you are doing it because of a stoic sense of virtuosity. I think it is because you like me and you want to help me as I try to help my kids. The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time (that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people are.
>
> Among the people who I am sad to not see upon my return are: Terry, the L person, Chris, Gareeth, Jeremy, and Arak. There are others, too, of course, but when I came back here, they are people who I wondered "hmm...I wonder how they are?" I know Chris and Jeremy have been gone along time. I think at least Arak was still around the last time I posed here.
transformed into more of a Z person. Eek!
dolph...@fsmail.net
Apr 20, 2012, 4:25:50 PM4/20/12
to
On Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:41:54 AM UTC+1, Zed wrote:
> I've always appreciated your posts, Dolphinius.
>
> Perhaps this is like the tinnitus group. Some people only stay with it
> as long as they feel they have a problem to resolve, or try to resolve
> those of others. That's probably why I don't come by too often.
I think I come here for just a smidgen of social contact. I need or want very little (outside that I get at work through interacting with colleagues during the day) so dipping in suits me well.
> I've always appreciated your posts, Dolphinius.
>
> Perhaps this is like the tinnitus group. Some people only stay with it
> as long as they feel they have a problem to resolve, or try to resolve
> those of others. That's probably why I don't come by too often.
> Autism
> has really only been a problem regarding other people in the world
> around me. I believe that if I, hypothetically speaking, grew up alone
> on a deserted island, I wouldn't have any issues regarding my autism.
> I'm sure that I would thrive and be happy as a clam.
> I'm old enough
> now to not care much about caring what people think and making my
> mark, even though society demands it.
>
> I too reached heights that I thought I'd never reach vocationally as a
> multitasking manager for several years. Looking back, which I try not
> to do, I realize that I put myself through way too much discomfort and
> stress. I find that being able to pull off the NT makes for a lot of
> wear and tear. Now I'm back to working by myself, as I always
> should've been. But at least I can honestly say that I gave it a shot
> and was successful.
>
> Funny thing is, a lot of NT's wind up all alone in the long run. I
> figure, why not cut out the middleman?
dolph...@fsmail.net
Apr 20, 2012, 5:32:24 PM4/20/12
to
[Dolphinius] As the ">" markers haven't come up very clearly below for your post I'll mark my comments using other means.
On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:04:46 PM UTC+1, Aquarian Monkey wrote:
> Ha! I only just saw this! I am honored that you said you'd like to meet me :) Though I may not be so impressive IRL. I have no superpowers and am not always very interesting LOL!
[Dolphinius] Maybe you have a shadow superpower? :) (Not sure what that is though - a superpower that only works in shadows? A superpower to cast shadows over things? Doesn't sound very useful ...)
> Plus, I do think that my kids have had a lot to do with my ability to embrace autism. I really don't have any complaints about them. They are really easy to love (not that others on the spectrum aren't)
[Dolphinius] I think you are very lucky. I was watching a bit of a programme on autistic children this evening. This was part of an interview from one mother with two (out of three) autistic children:
MOTHER: "I just try and make them happy"
INTERVIEWER: "I sense you're pretty heartbroken about this whole thing."
MOTHER: "I'm heartbroken. God forgive me, but I don't get a lot of enjoyment from them. You know, to wait five years to hear someone call you Mom after daily doing everything for them to keep them safe and give them comfort and provide for them, it's tough, you know"
She seemed a decent person and I expect she will continue doing her best for her children. She seemed very apologetic about expressing these views and I respected her for being honest about it. I can see why she was disappointed about her children's lack of interaction with her. By the way, her children seemed more autistic than you describe D and R (or at least definitely more than R).
> and it is very difficult for me to imagine them being anyone other than who they are, so it is easy for me to be happy with what I've got! :) Now, if the rest of the world would just agree with me, I'd be in business.
> You know, I can only remember 2 people with SPD from my psych days and I have to admit, that when I look back at them, I think one was most definitely a misdiagnosed Aspie, maybe even both. Except one of them seemed more...eccentric than the other. It wasn't like he was psychotic or anything. But his thoughts seemed odd both in content and process. I realize that many people on the spectrum present as "quirky" but this seemed a little different. At least different from the thought processes I generally see here. At any rate, my impression of you as you present here is more in line with the one who I think was misdiagnosed.
[Dolphinius] For the other, can you give an example of the unusual content and thought process? I know that some of my thinking is non-mainstream, but I imagined that I was not unusual within the autistic spectrum.
> FWIW, I do not think that not wanting a relationship is a sign of a personality disorder. I think it is ridiculous to pathologize something like that. For me, personally, I have no desire to enter into another relationship. At all. I mean, if life hands me someone who I am somehow perfectly compatible with, it is not like I would go out of my way to avoid it, but I am not *looking* for it and I will not be unhappy if it never happens. I don't see that as a flaw or a disorder. I see it as just me not having a problem being by myself and finding not having to try to maintain a relationship a refreshing change.
[Dolphinius] I think many people are happy being single. I am increasingly settling in happily to the notion that I will be permanently single (and by that I mean not even any temporary liaisons, just nothing). There are different paths in life.
> I question whether or not you truly don't care about other people. Are you sure it is that you don't care? Or is it that you are just not enmeshed with other people?
[Dolphinius] I care in one sense in that I will try to help people in difficulty. If anyone asks for help and I judge it is a genuine request then I will usually help them. So I care about my fellow humans. However, it is very impersonal. I will help someone I know or someone I don't know almost equally.
[Dolphinius] However, I don't care in that I tend not to keep in touch with people I have known well and got on well with. Also if I hear about something bad happening to them I don't have many feelings - it is just something that has happened. I would prefer good things happen to people than bad things, but since I can't control it I just note what happens.
[Dolphinius] I do find it hard to suppress grief at funerals, so I am not entirely emotionless, but I think I would probably struggle not to cry at the funeral of a yoghurt pot! It is the solemnness of the occasion and the finality that affects me not the feelings about the person.
> I ask because you have always been very kind and helpful to me, and I don't think you are doing it because of a stoic sense of virtuosity. I think it is because you like me and you want to help me as I try to help my kids.
[Dolphinius] I do like you, in that I feel in tune with your values and attitudes, but I think the foundation of liking is that I respect you (and admire you for what you are doing as a mother to D and R).
> The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time (that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people are.
[Dolphinius] Actually, that is quite a good way of summing up how I feel. It doesn't bother me when you're not around on ASA, but I quite like it when you are.
[Dolphinius] Regarding interactions, I think it is easy to interact online, particularly on ASA when anyone can just post when they feel like it and when it's convenient for them. There are some people in my town I know face-to-face who I could write the same things as I have above (feel in tune with their values and attitudes, respect and admire). I get on with them (in some cases very well). However, face-to-face I don't want to see them much. Once or twice a year is fine. I just prefer being alone. So quite possibly if we lived in the same town (and let us suppose we genuinely got on well when we interacted face-to-face) you might well end up having much less interaction with me in a year than you have and will have online on ASA.
[Dolphinius] The other day I counted up my social events this year up to mid-April. They consist of one weekend when I participated in an activity with some other people (and didn't chat socially much) and two drinks-after-work with colleagues (in both cases I only stayed for a drink or two). Nothing else at all. That's been plenty. However, it is a function of how busy I am. I've been working 60+ hour weeks plus a commute for most of the year (including voluntary work). So I've needed much of the free time I've had for housework and downtime. If I were unemployed I probably would want to socialise more. There is also daily ad-hoc social chat at work with people I like so I am not isolated.
> Among the people who I am sad to not see upon my return are: Terry, the L person, Chris, Gareeth, Jeremy, and Arak. There are others, too, of course, but when I came back here, they are people who I wondered "hmm...I wonder how they are?" I know Chris and Jeremy have been gone along time. I think at least Arak was still around the last time I posed here.
[Dolphinius] I wonder what has happened to Terry. I hope leaving ASA has been liberating for him.
> You have definitely been helpful to me, and I am thankful to know you.
[Dolphinius] I am glad some things I have said have been useful. I worry a bit because my autism did not affect me as much (or in the same way) as D and R when I was younger so my advice may sometimes not be well informed. However, I expect you are quite good at filtering out the bits that don't apply.
On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:04:46 PM UTC+1, Aquarian Monkey wrote:
> Ha! I only just saw this! I am honored that you said you'd like to meet me :) Though I may not be so impressive IRL. I have no superpowers and am not always very interesting LOL!
> Plus, I do think that my kids have had a lot to do with my ability to embrace autism. I really don't have any complaints about them. They are really easy to love (not that others on the spectrum aren't)
MOTHER: "I just try and make them happy"
INTERVIEWER: "I sense you're pretty heartbroken about this whole thing."
MOTHER: "I'm heartbroken. God forgive me, but I don't get a lot of enjoyment from them. You know, to wait five years to hear someone call you Mom after daily doing everything for them to keep them safe and give them comfort and provide for them, it's tough, you know"
She seemed a decent person and I expect she will continue doing her best for her children. She seemed very apologetic about expressing these views and I respected her for being honest about it. I can see why she was disappointed about her children's lack of interaction with her. By the way, her children seemed more autistic than you describe D and R (or at least definitely more than R).
> and it is very difficult for me to imagine them being anyone other than who they are, so it is easy for me to be happy with what I've got! :) Now, if the rest of the world would just agree with me, I'd be in business.
> You know, I can only remember 2 people with SPD from my psych days and I have to admit, that when I look back at them, I think one was most definitely a misdiagnosed Aspie, maybe even both. Except one of them seemed more...eccentric than the other. It wasn't like he was psychotic or anything. But his thoughts seemed odd both in content and process. I realize that many people on the spectrum present as "quirky" but this seemed a little different. At least different from the thought processes I generally see here. At any rate, my impression of you as you present here is more in line with the one who I think was misdiagnosed.
> FWIW, I do not think that not wanting a relationship is a sign of a personality disorder. I think it is ridiculous to pathologize something like that. For me, personally, I have no desire to enter into another relationship. At all. I mean, if life hands me someone who I am somehow perfectly compatible with, it is not like I would go out of my way to avoid it, but I am not *looking* for it and I will not be unhappy if it never happens. I don't see that as a flaw or a disorder. I see it as just me not having a problem being by myself and finding not having to try to maintain a relationship a refreshing change.
> I question whether or not you truly don't care about other people. Are you sure it is that you don't care? Or is it that you are just not enmeshed with other people?
[Dolphinius] However, I don't care in that I tend not to keep in touch with people I have known well and got on well with. Also if I hear about something bad happening to them I don't have many feelings - it is just something that has happened. I would prefer good things happen to people than bad things, but since I can't control it I just note what happens.
[Dolphinius] I do find it hard to suppress grief at funerals, so I am not entirely emotionless, but I think I would probably struggle not to cry at the funeral of a yoghurt pot! It is the solemnness of the occasion and the finality that affects me not the feelings about the person.
> I ask because you have always been very kind and helpful to me, and I don't think you are doing it because of a stoic sense of virtuosity. I think it is because you like me and you want to help me as I try to help my kids.
> The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time (that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people are.
[Dolphinius] Regarding interactions, I think it is easy to interact online, particularly on ASA when anyone can just post when they feel like it and when it's convenient for them. There are some people in my town I know face-to-face who I could write the same things as I have above (feel in tune with their values and attitudes, respect and admire). I get on with them (in some cases very well). However, face-to-face I don't want to see them much. Once or twice a year is fine. I just prefer being alone. So quite possibly if we lived in the same town (and let us suppose we genuinely got on well when we interacted face-to-face) you might well end up having much less interaction with me in a year than you have and will have online on ASA.
[Dolphinius] The other day I counted up my social events this year up to mid-April. They consist of one weekend when I participated in an activity with some other people (and didn't chat socially much) and two drinks-after-work with colleagues (in both cases I only stayed for a drink or two). Nothing else at all. That's been plenty. However, it is a function of how busy I am. I've been working 60+ hour weeks plus a commute for most of the year (including voluntary work). So I've needed much of the free time I've had for housework and downtime. If I were unemployed I probably would want to socialise more. There is also daily ad-hoc social chat at work with people I like so I am not isolated.
> Among the people who I am sad to not see upon my return are: Terry, the L person, Chris, Gareeth, Jeremy, and Arak. There are others, too, of course, but when I came back here, they are people who I wondered "hmm...I wonder how they are?" I know Chris and Jeremy have been gone along time. I think at least Arak was still around the last time I posed here.
> You have definitely been helpful to me, and I am thankful to know you.
Aquarian Monkey
Apr 20, 2012, 11:16:39 PM4/20/12
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On Friday, April 20, 2012 5:32:24 PM UTC-4, dolph...@fsmail.net wrote:
>
> [Dolphinius] Maybe you have a shadow superpower? :) (Not sure what that is >though - a superpower that only works in shadows? A superpower to cast shadows >over things? Doesn't sound very useful ...)
LOL! I don't know which it is, but you are right...neither sound particularly useful.
>
> [Dolphinius] Maybe you have a shadow superpower? :) (Not sure what that is >though - a superpower that only works in shadows? A superpower to cast shadows >over things? Doesn't sound very useful ...)
> MOTHER: "I'm heartbroken. God forgive me, but I don't get a lot of enjoyment >from them. You know, to wait five years to hear someone call you Mom after >daily doing everything for them to keep them safe and give them comfort and >provide for them, it's tough, you know"
>
> She seemed a decent person and I expect she will continue doing her best for >her children. She seemed very apologetic about expressing these views and I >respected her for being honest about it. I can see why she was disappointed >about her children's lack of interaction with her. By the way, her children >seemed more autistic than you describe D and R (or at least definitely more >than R).
I imagine it is hard to be a caretaker when you wonder if it will ever end. I mean, I believe my kids will live on their own one day. I can imagine if I thought that would never happen, I would feel very tired. And if they were not even able to express appreciation, I think it would heighten that. It wouldn't be that I would love them any less, but I do think I would feel significantly more...tired. I have worked hard with my kids, but they return my love and affection. Tonight R said to me "Mom, I don't think I could have created a better parent than you." Stuff like that makes all the hard work seem like nothing, because I know he genuinely means it. And the best part about it is that he knows I am not perfect, but he feels this way anyway. The mom you are talking about will likely never experience something like that. I feel sympathy for her.
>
> [Dolphinius] For the other, can you give an example of the unusual content and thought process? I know that some of my thinking is non-mainstream, but I imagined that I was not unusual within the autistic spectrum.
>
> [Dolphinius] I do like you, in that I feel in tune with your values and >attitudes,
I think the same is true for NT relationships, too. At least ones that go deeper than the superficial.
> [Dolphinius] I do like you, in that I feel in tune with your values and >attitudes,
>but I think the foundation of liking is that I respect you (and admire you for >what you are doing as a mother to D and R).
> > The fact that your heart doesn't ache if I leave for months at a time >(that's a joke, btw) doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that you >recognize that my life has taken me elsewhere and while you may enjoy my >company when I am around, you are no less complete without it. I simply don't >see that as a "disorder" you know what I mean? It's just the way some people >are.
>
> [Dolphinius] Actually, that is quite a good way of summing up how I feel. It >doesn't bother me when you're not around on ASA, but I quite like it when you >are.
I don't want you to feel like I am just disagreeing with your own view of yourself because of course you know yourself better than I do. It's just that I think so many autistic "traits" are really just NT misinterpretations of a different way of being. And I can imagine if you are around it enough, it's easy to start believing it. Just because you do not show that you care the way the people around you do, doesn't mean you don't care. My dad (probably Aspie) once told me that he didn't love me. He apologized and said he didn't think he felt things the way other people do. I believe him. I don't think he feels things the way most others do. But let me tell you one thing I know without a single doubt: My father loves me. It may not "feel" the way I love my children but I know he loves me in the way that he is able to. From that conversation, I got the feeling like he felt like an outsider looking in. I also think that he probably looked at dads who obviously loved their kids in the more "mainstream" sense, and then compared their behavior to his own, and then in a very analytical way concluded that because of the discrepancies between the two that he did not love me. I hope that since that time he has learned better. I think he has.
>
> So quite possibly if we lived in the same town (and let us suppose we >genuinely got on well when we interacted face-to-face) you might well end up >having much less interaction with me in a year than you have and will have >online on ASA.
Very much agreed. The friends that I do have IRL I do like very much. Some of them very, very much. But I'm absolutely fine with seeing them a couple of times a year. I have found that the older I have gotten, the less "need" I have had for the kind of "friendship" that entails a lot of face time. Honestly, between work and my kids, my energy is spent. I don't want to have to try to fit another human being into the equation. I'd much prefer to do it online for the reasons you have already mentioned. And like you, I get much of my need for social interaction met at work. I do work with 3 people who I genuinely like and who I feel like I can just be "me" around without worrying about all of the impression management stuff that makes me so exhausted. Actually, that is one reason why being separated is nice. My ex used to be exceptionally concerned about what other people thought. Always telling me what I should and shouldn't do or what I should or shouldn't have already done. It makes interacting with others seem more like a chore when you are constantly monitoring every word that passes through your lips. He made me more self-conscious than I should have been.
> So quite possibly if we lived in the same town (and let us suppose we >genuinely got on well when we interacted face-to-face) you might well end up >having much less interaction with me in a year than you have and will have >online on ASA.
>
> [Dolphinius] The other day I counted up my social events this year up to mid-April. They consist of one weekend when I participated in an activity with some other people (and didn't chat socially much) and two drinks-after-work with colleagues (in both cases I only stayed for a drink or two).
Hmmm...I have had dinner with friends once, gone to visit a friend once, went to lunch once (working lunch), and visited my family.
> [Dolphinius] The other day I counted up my social events this year up to mid-April. They consist of one weekend when I participated in an activity with some other people (and didn't chat socially much) and two drinks-after-work with colleagues (in both cases I only stayed for a drink or two).
>
>
> [Dolphinius] I am glad some things I have said have been useful. I worry a >bit because my autism did not affect me as much (or in the same way) as D and >R when I was younger so my advice may sometimes not be well informed. However, >I expect you are quite good at filtering out the bits that don't apply.
>
You don't need to be just like them to be able to understand them, and yes, with you and everyone else here, I listen to what you say and evaluate it against what I see. If it fits, I keep it, and if it doesn't, I tuck it away in case I find some use for it later.
>
> [Dolphinius] I am glad some things I have said have been useful. I worry a >bit because my autism did not affect me as much (or in the same way) as D and >R when I was younger so my advice may sometimes not be well informed. However, >I expect you are quite good at filtering out the bits that don't apply.
>
dolph...@fsmail.net
Apr 21, 2012, 6:37:30 PM4/21/12
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On Saturday, April 21, 2012 4:16:39 AM UTC+1, Aquarian Monkey wrote:
> On Friday, April 20, 2012 5:32:24 PM UTC-4, dolph...@fsmail.net wrote:
> > [Dolphinius] For the other, can you give an example of the unusual content and thought process? I know that some of my thinking is non-mainstream, but I imagined that I was not unusual within the autistic spectrum.
>
> I can't remember specific examples anymore. I am only left with my general impression. It was not that his thinking was non-mainstream, but more that it was illogical and fanciful. Although I am not sure that is quite the right way to describe it. Almost like a really good imagination with an impaired ability to reality test. This isn't an actual example, but more like a typical example: he would be more likely to interpret an interaction between others under the "rubric" of a comic or cartoon. It is hard to explain what I mean. There was just a sense of "out of touch with reality" about him. I don't read that at all with you.
[Dolphinius] I have a relative who is not (I think) either autistic or schizoid, but in some ways he is very much as you describe. Sometimes when I talk with him it almost feels like he thinks life is one big Dilbert cartoon. He is much better at socialising (and more interested in socialising) than I am, and is even happily married, but he has a degree of detachment about him that is different to mine and which is very like what you describe. At times in his life when he has been stressed he has been very illogical and prone to imagining that life is not what it is. I think he sometimes totally misjudges other people.
> On Friday, April 20, 2012 5:32:24 PM UTC-4, dolph...@fsmail.net wrote:
> > [Dolphinius] For the other, can you give an example of the unusual content and thought process? I know that some of my thinking is non-mainstream, but I imagined that I was not unusual within the autistic spectrum.
>
> I can't remember specific examples anymore. I am only left with my general impression. It was not that his thinking was non-mainstream, but more that it was illogical and fanciful. Although I am not sure that is quite the right way to describe it. Almost like a really good imagination with an impaired ability to reality test. This isn't an actual example, but more like a typical example: he would be more likely to interpret an interaction between others under the "rubric" of a comic or cartoon. It is hard to explain what I mean. There was just a sense of "out of touch with reality" about him. I don't read that at all with you.
> Then I see no evidence that you don't care about people. What I see is evidence that you are a very low maintenance friend. You have no expectations that others will meet any need for you except to enjoy the time you spend together. I don't think that makes you uncaring at all. In many regards what it makes you is unselfish.
[Dolphinius] I get much more fulfilment out of an interaction if I am asked to help with something. If I can help and go away again (maybe after a cup of tea afterwards) I feel I've done something worthwhile.
> I don't want you to feel like I am just disagreeing with your own view of yourself because of course you know yourself better than I do. It's just that I think so many autistic "traits" are really just NT misinterpretations of a different way of being.
> And I can imagine if you are around it enough, it's easy to start believing it. Just because you do not show that you care the way the people around you do, doesn't mean you don't care. My dad (probably Aspie) once told me that he didn't love me. He apologized and said he didn't think he felt things the way other people do. I believe him. I don't think he feels things the way most others do. But let me tell you one thing I know without a single doubt: My father loves me. It may not "feel" the way I love my children but I know he loves me in the way that he is able to.
> From that conversation, I got the feeling like he felt like an outsider looking in. I also think that he probably looked at dads who obviously loved their kids in the more "mainstream" sense, and then compared their behavior to his own, and then in a very analytical way concluded that because of the discrepancies between the two that he did not love me. I hope that since that time he has learned better. I think he has.
> > [Dolphinius] The other day I counted up my social events this year up to mid-April. They consist of one weekend when I participated in an activity with some other people (and didn't chat socially much) and two drinks-after-work with colleagues (in both cases I only stayed for a drink or two).
>
> Hmmm...I have had dinner with friends once, gone to visit a friend once, went to lunch once (working lunch), and visited my family.
Aquarian Monkey
Apr 23, 2012, 9:47:55 PM4/23/12
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On Saturday, April 21, 2012 6:37:30 PM UTC-4, dolph...@fsmail.net wrote:
> [Dolphinius] I get much more fulfilment out of an interaction if I am asked to help with something. If I can help and go away again (maybe after a cup of tea afterwards) I feel I've done something worthwhile.
Interesting. Though some would say that is because you are a man. There are those who think that men feel they must always be doing or fixing something. But I also find it interesting because my dad is like that. He would never come to visit me, unless I had some kind of project for him to work on.
> [Dolphinius] I get much more fulfilment out of an interaction if I am asked to help with something. If I can help and go away again (maybe after a cup of tea afterwards) I feel I've done something worthwhile.
>
> > I don't want you to feel like I am just disagreeing with your own view of yourself because of course you know yourself better than I do. It's just that I think so many autistic "traits" are really just NT misinterpretations of a different way of being.
>
> [Dolphinius] I'm not quite sure I understand that last sentence. Do you mean that NTs don't fully understand what is causing the trait, and perhaps focus on the trait rather than the full picture of the condition?
> [Dolphinius] You win (4-3)! :) That's lower than I'd expect. However, is that natural for you, or are you constrained because of your responsibilities as a mother?
I used to be much more socially active. I find I just don't desire it as much anymore. Yes, I am constrained by my responsibilities as a mother, but even if I wasn't, I doubt I'd have an active social life. If anything, it is probably more likely work that makes me not want to socialize. I have always been an introvert and I find that the older I get, the more tired people make me feel. I really do enjoy people as a whole, but interacting makes me worn out. Like today I taught numerous classes on sensitivity and while I enjoyed all the interaction, I was thankful that my kids didn't seem to want too much interaction tonight.
dolph...@fsmail.net
Apr 28, 2012, 4:09:38 PM4/28/12
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On Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:47:55 AM UTC+1, Aquarian Monkey wrote:
> On Saturday, April 21, 2012 6:37:30 PM UTC-4, dolph...@fsmail.net wrote:
>
> > [Dolphinius] I get much more fulfilment out of an interaction if I am asked to help with something. If I can help and go away again (maybe after a cup of tea afterwards) I feel I've done something worthwhile.
>
> Interesting. Though some would say that is because you are a man. There are those who think that men feel they must always be doing or fixing something. But I also find it interesting because my dad is like that. He would never come to visit me, unless I had some kind of project for him to work on.
[Dolphinius] I think you may be mis-applying a generality to all men (or at least I have certainly not explained myself here). What motivates me is doing something practical that is helpful. It is not because I like doing practical things. I do very little for myself (except where I have to try to fix something because it is broken and won't function any more).
> On Saturday, April 21, 2012 6:37:30 PM UTC-4, dolph...@fsmail.net wrote:
>
> > [Dolphinius] I get much more fulfilment out of an interaction if I am asked to help with something. If I can help and go away again (maybe after a cup of tea afterwards) I feel I've done something worthwhile.
>
> Interesting. Though some would say that is because you are a man. There are those who think that men feel they must always be doing or fixing something. But I also find it interesting because my dad is like that. He would never come to visit me, unless I had some kind of project for him to work on.
[Dolphinius] My father liked doing lots of practical things, and they were mostly for himself or my mother. So I think there may be two reasons why people like doing practical things. I don't know if male attitudes to this are split or the example I quoted was just the same but for a different reason.
> > > I don't want you to feel like I am just disagreeing with your own view of yourself because of course you know yourself better than I do. It's just that I think so many autistic "traits" are really just NT misinterpretations of a different way of being.
> > [Dolphinius] I'm not quite sure I understand that last sentence. Do you mean that NTs don't fully understand what is causing the trait, and perhaps focus on the trait rather than the full picture of the condition?
>
> I was not clear in what I said. But yes, you are right. The traits are really there, but I think NTs sometimes misinterpret. For example, the statement that auties do not feel empathy. I am not sure I buy that, though it is possible it is true for some people.
> I think it is more likely that when someone does not respond the way we (NTs) think they ought to, we judge it. However, I can think of two other explanations why an autistic might respond with what appears to be a lack of empathy. One could be that he or she *is* experiencing empathy internally, but the outward expression is not what an NT is looking for, so it is missed. Another possible explanation comes from D. She often appears non-empathetic. But it is because she cannot tease out of the social situation what is really happening. And sometimes she has a hard time with perspective taking, so she doesn't understand what the other person feels. Once you explain it to her, she often feels more empathetic than many NTs I have met. It is hard to feel empathy when you can't figure out what is going on. But it isn't that you can't/don't feel empathy. Does that clarify what I mean?
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