The law career of Mark S Probert ... tell us all about it Mark
Ilena
Hey, Mark, how did you practice law without going to Law School? ;)
For details on this topic ... go to:
Joel M. Eichen
Ilena <il...@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com...
> Ilsa Nein (ils...@aol.com5554) asks:
>
>
> Hey, Mark, how did you practice law without going to Law School? ;)
>
>
REPLY:
Hey Ilena,
How'd you get to be such an expert on breast stuff without having taken a pathology course?? Oh cool! You used to work for Frank
Perdue!!!
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Mark
So? Aside from gaining a little insight into you based on your "Mark
Probert is a big fat meanie" page, I didn't see any proof that this
Mark Probert is the same as Mark Probert the lawyer. Do you actually
have anything that proves he is/was a lawyer?
Does it matter?
Mark, MD
Jeff Utz
"Mark" <mlo...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:5ee850fe.03020...@posting.google.com...
What? In a small state like New York, do you really think there are more
than on Mark Proberts?
I beleive Ilenapoo could be wrong. In fact, I am sure of it.
And why does it matter, Illeanpoo? I mean what has he said that you can
demonstrate is wrong with real evidence?
All the best,
Jeff
Orac
il...@san.rr.com (Ilena) wrote:
> Ilsa Nein (ils...@aol.com5554) asks:
>
>
> Hey, Mark, how did you practice law without going to Law School? ;)
Relevance?
In any case, your page about Mr. Probert is rather revealing, but
probably not in the way you had hoped when you made it. It's more
revealing about you than him.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"
Byte Me
@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net:
> In any case, your page about Mr. Probert is rather revealing, but
> probably not in the way you had hoped when you made it. It's more
> revealing about you than him.
>
>
In your opinion, maybe. (Just so long as you realize that 'opinion'
and 'fact' are not synonymous).
Mark Probert
I'll keep this and preiodically remind you, person who posts opinion only.
Ilena
> How'd you get to be such an expert on breast stuff without having taken a pathology course??
Joelly ... thanks for asking.
Here's a link to a recent interview:
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/sellmaninterviewsrosenthal.htm
First, one doesn't need a pathology course to see the harm from
necrosis ... nor to understand the danger of an implant sticking out
of a woman's skin ... your supposition is wrong.
As far as how I got involved ... here's a link to a recent interview
with me that explains some of how I got so deeply involved in this God
forsaken issue.
I've been involved for years in women's issues ... in college, I was
an early volunteer in the Planned Parenthood in the late 1960's.
Nearly 30 years ago, while working as a real estate saleswoman, before
I became a Broker, I was on a small team of women who started the
first Woman's Crisis Center in that community ... in fact, my home was
a shelter for women to come to after being raped ... I would take care
of them and let them soak in my jacuzzi and let them cry and talk and
eventually laugh ...
A handful of us developed a "rape kit" for the hospitals to use to
examine women with the most effecitve and least invasive ways. We
would be present too, when the police interviewed the rape victims ...
to ensure they didnt feel "raped" again ... that was not uncommon in
those days.
I always had a high awareness of breast implants ... in fact, one of
my best friends got them in 1970 ... and at that time ... I found her
a doctor that used saline instead of silicone gel ... thinking that
would be safer. Interestingly enough, she still has them ... the
early, "industrial strength" versions ... altho her health could
certainly be better.
In early 1995, 5 separate women discussed with my in detail their
horrific experiences with their failed implants ... at separate times.
After one of them asked me to do a little research on her behalf ... I
checked into the net and was astonished at what I read.
There was no support system ... and the only Usenet discussion was
being bullied by a veep of silicone maker McGhan who refused to
identify himself ... and a few silicone attorneys and some dumb doctor
want-a-bees.
I created alt.support.breast-implant in the Fall of 1995 ... and since
then have met and communicated with mulpile thousands of women ...
every one a case history ... not an "anecdote."
I learned that the doctors brave enough to speak out on the dangers
were losing their jobs and their grants and being called "junk
scientists" while the Queen of Junk Science" ... then NEJM Editor
Marcia Angell ... was selling the industry lies to the media that her
best estimate of rupture was "4-6%" ...
The booklet I wrote the year she published hers cited several studies
with rates of 50% and higher ...
I have had the benefit of not being programmed by the
medical/pharmaceutical industries ... I began with no bias ... and
without my income tied to selling implants like the Plastic Surgeons.
I don't know it all Joelly ... but I do know that hundreds of
thousands of women have serious and sometimes fatal problems linked to
their implants ... and that a huge cover up continues regarding the
failure of implants continues to this day.
I don't claim to be a doctor like some here do like Jeffie the Blind
... nor do I claim to have never been a lawyer ... like the failed
attorney Mark S Probert.
Ilena Rosenthal
Joel M. Eichen
>
> > How'd you get to be such an expert on breast stuff without having taken a pathology course??
>
>
> Joelly ... thanks for asking.
>
> Here's a link to a recent interview:
>
> http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/sellmaninterviewsrosenthal.htm
>
> First, one doesn't need a pathology course to see the harm from
> necrosis ... nor to understand the danger of an implant sticking out
> of a woman's skin ... your supposition is wrong.
>
YOU sure?????
I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
Joelly
Joel M. Eichen
>
> > How'd you get to be such an expert on breast stuff without having taken a pathology course??
>
>
> Joelly ... thanks for asking.
>
> Here's a link to a recent interview:
>
> http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/sellmaninterviewsrosenthal.htm
>
> First, one doesn't need a pathology course to see the harm from
> necrosis ... nor to understand the danger of an implant sticking out
> of a woman's skin ... your supposition is wrong.
>
Goodarticlebytheway,,,,,,,,,,
Ihadnoideayouwentinforthiskindofthingthough
What began as a small research project for a
friend with tumors and cysts around her 20 year old saline implants in
August, 1995, has become an amazing adventure for Ilena beyond anything
she could have imagined.
Joel M. Eichen
>
> > How'd you get to be such an expert on breast stuff without having taken a pathology course??
>
>
> Joelly ... thanks for asking.
>
> Here's a link to a recent interview:
>
> http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/sellmaninterviewsrosenthal.htm
>
> First, one doesn't need a pathology course to see the harm from
> necrosis ... nor to understand the danger of an implant sticking out
> of a woman's skin ... your supposition is wrong.
>
> As far as how I got involved ... here's a link to a recent interview
> with me that explains some of how I got so deeply involved in this God
> forsaken issue.
>
> I've been involved for years in women's issues ... in college, I was
> an early volunteer in the Planned Parenthood in the late 1960's.
>
> Nearly 30 years ago, while working as a real estate saleswoman, before
> I became a Broker, I was on a small team of women who started the
> first Woman's Crisis Center in that community ... in fact, my home was
> a shelter for women to come to after being raped ... I would take care
> of them and let them soak in my jacuzzi and let them cry and talk and
> eventually laugh ...
Interesting!
>
> A handful of us developed a "rape kit" for the hospitals to use to
> examine women with the most effecitve and least invasive ways. We
> would be present too, when the police interviewed the rape victims ...
> to ensure they didnt feel "raped" again ... that was not uncommon in
> those days.
>
> I always had a high awareness of breast implants ... in fact, one of
> my best friends got them in 1970 ... and at that time ... I found her
> a doctor that used saline instead of silicone gel ... thinking that
> would be safer. Interestingly enough, she still has them ... the
> early, "industrial strength" versions ... altho her health could
> certainly be better.
>
> In early 1995, 5 separate women discussed with my in detail their
> horrific experiences with their failed implants ... at separate times.
> After one of them asked me to do a little research on her behalf ... I
> checked into the net and was astonished at what I read.
This is you also right?
tools
Ilena
to be aggressed on by failed attorney Mark S Probert ...
One person commented how the awards, paid because of the "dishonest
conduct" of the attorney ... frequent poster Mark S Probert ... was
under $3000 ... yet that 6 people pursued it ... obviously, even tho
the amount was somewhat petty, their desire to protect others was
great enough to go thru the hoops of the NY Bar Association for
reimbursement.
Yes, NY is a big state ... but Probert lives in the 10th district ...
and there are NOT 2 Mark S. Proberts who live there ...
In the past, he has claimed it was his Uncle Mark who was so shamed
...but that too, is a lie ... he has claimed before that Mark Probert
who died years ago and was NOT an attorney, was his uncle.
Why is this important?
Mark fills Usenet with a mythological story of himself as a hero ...
while attacking and harassing those of us who are of a different
opinion on several issues ...
He chose to make me a target after HealthFraud Stevie Barrett
threatened to sue me .. and since then has taken several stupid and
obvious aliases ... to attack me .
He frequently, in his self aggrandizement, thanks people for "playing"
... this is not a game to us who have serious messages that we post on
Usenet.
Thanks for the comments ...
Nanaweedkiller
> One person commented how the awards, paid because of the "dishonest
> conduct" of the attorney ... [...]... was
> under $3000 ... yet that 6 people pursued it ... obviously, even tho
> the amount was somewhat petty, their desire to protect others was
> great enough to go thru the hoops of the NY Bar Association for
> reimbursement.
[...]
This whine is pretty funny coming from someone whose own lawyer
had to pay a $600 penalty to one of her victims.
Orac
Byte Me <byt...@nana.com> wrote:
LOL!
Geez, talk about nitpicking for the sake of being annoying! It was
mind-numbingly obvious (except, apparently, to you) that I was
expressing nothing more than my opinion in the above post. Given the
context, that was clearly implied and no explicit statement that it was
my opinion was necessary. Indeed, it might have been bad writing style,
as in unnecessarily verbose.
But, for your benefit, I'll respond to your nitpicking in a way that you
can understand: I *think* that your response to me also reveals a bit
about you, *in my opinion.*
There, happy now? ;-)
Orac
> Mark fills Usenet with a mythological story of himself as a hero ...
> while attacking and harassing those of us who are of a different
> opinion on several issues ...
Gee, talk about projecting one's own behavior onto one's enemies!
[Snip]
Elizabeth Reid
> to be aggressed on by failed attorney Mark S Probert ...
>
> One person commented how the awards, paid because of the "dishonest
> conduct" of the attorney ... frequent poster Mark S Probert ... was
> under $3000 ... yet that 6 people pursued it ... obviously, even tho
> the amount was somewhat petty, their desire to protect others was
> great enough to go thru the hoops of the NY Bar Association for
> reimbursement.
>
> Yes, NY is a big state ... but Probert lives in the 10th district ...
> and there are NOT 2 Mark S. Proberts who live there ...
Okay, I know very little about this Mark Probert confusion, so
I'm coming in fresh. How do you know the online Mark S. Probert
lives in the 10th district, and how do you know that there is
only one man of that name there?
Beth
CBI
"Ilena" <il...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com...
>
> He frequently, in his self aggrandizement, thanks people for "playing"
> ... this is not a game to us who have serious messages that we post on
> Usenet.
>
OK -
You are into women's issue - fine, I guess you qualify.
You hate Mark - fine.
You have no proof that the two MP's are the same and cannot accept that
there might be two within a reasonable distance of each other - especially
if they are related - OK - I just have to wonder how many Rosenthals there
are in the state of denial.
You don't think you need any personal experience or medical knowledge to
know just how evil breast implants are - if you wish.
My question to you:
How is posting all of this to misc.kids.health anything but stalking or even
remotely on topic?
--
CBI, MD
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."
-Andre Gide
Ilena
There is only one "Mark S. Probert" in the 10th Judicial District ...
It's amusing that your Mark has not commented ... ask him which Law
School he attended ... ask him if the failed attorney that the NY Bar
Association had to pay 6 disgruntled former clients is not he ...
As far as "stalking" ... LOL
I have tried to get away from this idiot for years ... he continues to
this day posting on alt.support.breast-implant ... under his various
aliases ...
More amusing is the Quack / Health Frauds inability to correctly
assess evidence ...
Ilena
> Gee, talk about projecting one's own behavior onto one's enemies!
>
Perfect example Davey Gorski ...of you not being able to assess
causation ...
I have tried to avoid Mark S Probert for years ... he continues to
harass me ... under KKK aliases like the Coward he is.
You have it upside and backward.
Herman Rubin
Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Ilena <il...@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com...
>> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<b1mlh3$
......................
>YOU sure?????
>I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
Yes, BUT they have to provide FULL information to the
patient, including full information about alternative
treatments which are available, whether or not they like
them. That is diagnosis. Even alternatives to the
testing policy need to be discussed; making another trip
to get tested, which does not at this time get considered
as a MEDICAL cost, needs to be included, and the time lost
for other pursuits needs to be treated the same as other
costs. For a doctor to TELL a patient what to do should
be automatic malpractice, unless the situation is urgent
and there are no alternatives. Even in that case, if the
doctor is wrong, the doctor should be liable. So if the
doctor state that the patient needs immediate hospitalization,
and this is not the case, the doctor should be liable for the
costs of the hospitalization, loss of the value of the time
to the patient and to his employer, and even possible damage
to his career. Provide ALL the information, and let the
patient make the decisions.
BTW, it is not that unusual that the patient knows quite
a bit about the disease, often including items which the
particular doctor does not know, or does not know well.
Restricting the choice of action to those who understand
because there are fools often even harms the fools.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Deptartment of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
(null)
odds are for the long-term. When the HRT studies were finally
done, the false claims were made apparent. That was for one drug
therapy. How about all the others? Statins for everyone? But
we know low cholesterol leads to a cancer diagnosis. So who
lives longer? Those studies have not been done...no one wants
'the numbers you have been looking for.' You may end up with
less cholesterol and a higher overall death rate, but what the
heck, what study THAT?
--
George Conklin, Durham, NC
If HMOs ran the post office, the AMA (American Mail Association)
would declare that getting mail was a privilege, not a right
and 43 million Americans would get no mail delivery.
John Palmer
>There is only one "Mark S.Probert" in New York State ...
>
>There is only one "Mark S. Probert" in the 10th Judicial District ...
>
>
>It's amusing that your Mark has not commented ...
Mark isn't a "your" Mark to anyone, except perhaps himself, and his
wife. However, he doesn't tend to dignify baseless comments with a
response. That someone would find this "amusing" suggests that such a
person is playing a game. You'll note that someone also recently
scorned Mark for using the expression "thanks for playing..." (a joke
about game/quiz shows), insisting that things were quite serious.
--
Everything I needed to know in life, I learned in kindergarten. Like:
when everyone is shouting for quiet, the room keeps getting noisier,
until people, one by one, decide to stop shouting.
Joel M. Eichen
>
> There is only one "Mark S. Probert" in the 10th Judicial District ...
>
REPLY:
AND there is only one ILENA who actually cares ..........
Joel M. Eichen
not how the underground ferrets out his/her identity .........
Elizabeth Reid
> There is only one "Mark S.Probert" in New York State ...
>
> There is only one "Mark S. Probert" in the 10th Judicial District ...
How exactly do you know this?
Beth
Joel M. Eichen
Elizabeth Reid <eliz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c3338aa8.03020...@posting.google.com...
*****
And why EXACTLY would ANYONE care .....?
Nanaweedkiller
Hey, Ilena, how's that debtor's court coming along?
Did you open an offshore account while you're out of the country?
Why don't you pay your judgment, ya cheap shit?
Nanaweedkiller
It's just Ilena doing her cyberstalking. She's quite proud of herself.
She actually thinks it's cool to be a "cybersleuth", as she calls it.
Joel M. Eichen
Nanaweedkiller <nanawee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ZGd0a.58$5g7...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Holy Crap!!!!
Then I better use a pseudonym .........
Is Jan Drew taken yet??????
Joel M. Eichen
(null) <jep...@shell.ntrnet.net> wrote in message news:3e414...@news.buzzardnews.com...
> In article <b1rc77$1b...@odds.stat.purdue.edu>,
> Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote:
> >In article <b1os5j$15guaf$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de>,
> >Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Ilena <il...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com...
> >>> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<b1mlh3$
> >
> >
> > ......................
> >
> >
> >>YOU sure?????
> >
> >>I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
> >
> >Yes, BUT they have to provide FULL information to the
> >patient, including full information about alternative
> >treatments which are available, whether or not they like
> >them.
REALLY???????
Where did you, the patient
study biochemistry, physiology
and pathology?????
>> That is diagnosis. Even alternatives to the
> >testing policy need to be discussed; making another trip
> >to get tested, which does not at this time get considered
> >as a MEDICAL cost, needs to be included, and the time lost
> >for other pursuits needs to be treated the same as other
> >costs.
All within 15 minutes according to your excellent
EXCELLENT insurance!!!!!! What a laugh!!!
>> For a doctor to TELL a patient what to do should
> >be automatic malpractice, unless the situation is urgent
> >and there are no alternatives.
Written like a true patient!!!!!!!
>>Even in that case, if the
> >doctor is wrong, the doctor should be liable. So if the
> >doctor state that the patient needs immediate hospitalization,
> >and this is not the case, the doctor should be liable for the
> >costs of the hospitalization, loss of the value of the time
> >to the patient and to his employer, and even possible damage
> >to his career. Provide ALL the information, and let the
> >patient make the decisions.
I see. If you get the diagnosis,
you then trude off to the library
to find what is best for you?????
Mark Probert
I really do not want to get into a tussle with you, but, I must respond.
I have stated that I am NOT "Will Ketcher" and you claim that since WK
posts through AOL, and I had posted through AOL, I am WK.
Wrong. Look at the NNTP posting hosts, as you have done several times.
Note the widely disparate addresses. Find ONE of my posts with WK's NNTP
posting host. You cannot, because I am not WK.
Since I know that you will not believe anything I say, why not write to
AOL and ask them for the geographic locations that correspond to the
NNTP posting hosts? Hopefully, that should settle it, once and for all.
AFAIAC, I have no desire whatsoever to engage in any dialogue with you
on any subject. I will not post to you, or about you. I would hope that
others would stop their use of the URL of your odious website.
As far as I am concerned, with the posting of this message, you no
longer exist.
tools
> > >
> > >>I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
>
>
> REALLY???????
>
>>
>
> All within 15 minutes according to your excellent
> EXCELLENT insurance!!!!!! What a laugh!!!
>
>
15 minets? No wonder you guys f--k up so much.
>
> Written like a true patient!!!!!!!
>
Written like a true idiot.
>
> I see. If you get the diagnosis,
> you then trude off to the library
> to find what is best for you?????
>
>
>
>
Perhaps
Joel M. Eichen
tools <medt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:%Tg0a.1203$tO2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b1s3pt$15iff0$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > > >
> > > >>I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
>
> >
> >
> > REALLY???????
> >
> >>
> >
> > All within 15 minutes according to your excellent
> > EXCELLENT insurance!!!!!! What a laugh!!!
> >
> >
> 15 minets? No wonder you guys f--k up so much.
**********************
15 Minuets??? Hell, no we
like Chamber Music .......
**********************
>
> >
> > Written like a true patient!!!!!!!
> >
> Written like a true idiot.
**********************
No you are the dude who wants
to treat yourself (make your own decisions) ........
Laughable!!!!! Dude!!!!!
***********************
> >
> > I see. If you get the diagnosis,
> > you then trude off to the library
> > to find what is best for you?????
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Perhaps
>
>
There ya go ... and then sue yourself
when it does not work out!!!!!
Joel M. Eichen DDS
PS- Thanks for the Internet laugh!!!
Joel M. Eichen
multiple choice from your archtect)..................
welcome to sci.med.beatupondocs
Joel M. Eichen
This ain't Toni ............
************************
Mark Probert <mark_p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Wxg0a.129162$HG.20...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Sabra Broock
... you got me!? But...... maybe I should seek to discover..........
in article b1s6it$16g1n1$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de, Joel M. Eichen at
joele...@yahoo.com wrote on 2/5/03 3:17 PM:
Elizabeth Reid
Good point. I don't really. I'm capable of judging people's
posts by their content. Whom I tend to believe is left as
an exercise for the reader.
I'm curious, though. I'm not sure how I'd go about verifying
that there was one and only one person of a given name in a
given area. It's not as though phone books are a reliable
source, because lots of people have unlisted numbers. I'm
sure Ilena hasn't knocked on every door in New York. So
what's the source of her definitive statements above?
Beth
Joel M. Eichen
Sabra Broock <sabra...@cox.net> wrote in message news:BA66DE9D.2599%sabra...@cox.net...
> You mean KW and WK are unrelated and are not Toni???????? Other than that
> ... you got me!? But...... maybe I should seek to discover..........
Oh DANG!!!!!
Sorry!
The posts slip off my Outlook Express after I read them!
Dyslexic me!!!!!!!!
**********************************
Joel M. Eichen
> > > > There is only one "Mark S. Probert" in the 10th Judicial District ...
> > >
> > > How exactly do you know this?
> > >
> > > Beth
> >
> > *****
> >
> > And why EXACTLY would ANYONE care .....?
>
BETH wrote:
> Good point. I don't really. I'm capable of judging people's
> posts by their content. Whom I tend to believe is left as
> an exercise for the reader.
We agree!
I can tell by the sense of the post ,,, and that is ALL I care about!!!
Joel
Kathy Cole
wrote:
> I'm curious, though. I'm not sure how I'd go about verifying
> that there was one and only one person of a given name in a
> given area. It's not as though phone books are a reliable
> source, because lots of people have unlisted numbers. I'm
> sure Ilena hasn't knocked on every door in New York. So
> what's the source of her definitive statements above?
Why would she start actually researching things now?
Brandon Stahl
No link exists between statins and cancer. There is growing data on use
of statins.
The #1 cause of death in the US is the heart, not cancer.
We don't know everything, but we can and should act on what we do know.
People with high cholesterol uncontrolled by diet and lifestyle should
be on statins. Millions of dollars are being spent studying these
drugs, but so far - based on available data - they're relatively safe
and effective.
You misunderstand the possible harm of HRT, btw.
David Wright
Mark Probert <mark_p...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Ilena wrote:
>> Orac <Or...@mac.com> wrote in message news:<Orac-
>>
>>>Gee, talk about projecting one's own behavior onto one's enemies!
>>>
>> Perfect example Davey Gorski ...of you not being able to assess
>> causation ...
>>
>> I have tried to avoid Mark S Probert for years ... he continues to
>> harass me ... under KKK aliases like the Coward he is.
>
>I really do not want to get into a tussle with you, but, I must respond.
>
>I have stated that I am NOT "Will Ketcher" and you claim that since WK
>posts through AOL, and I had posted through AOL, I am WK.
Ilena did similar detective work with me a few years ago -- she
decided that I was some other poster because we were coming in through
the same ISP (rcn.com, a rather large service). The message headers
showed we were using different newsreaders, etc, but Sherlock Ilena
was not deterred by these minor problems.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
amp_spamfree
Brandon - based on what George has read in the News and Observer,
heard on some unidentifiable radio broadcast, and the editorial in the
Atlantic Monthly, are you surprised? I suspect that he thinks
Framingham is a small town in Massachusettes.
Eric Bohlman
> No link exists between statins and cancer. There is growing data on
> use of statins.
>
> The #1 cause of death in the US is the heart, not cancer.
But, of course, a *spurious* association between statins and cancer could
well exist; since nobody is immortal, everyone who doesn't die of heart
disease has to die of something else, and in many cases that will be
cancer. As I like to say, if homicides, suicides, and auto accidents
dropped to zero you'd see quite a surge in new HIV infections, for the
simple reason that being shot, shooting yourself, and getting into a fatal
car accident are all 100% effective ways of ensuring that you'll never
seroconvert (and, of course, because homicides, suicides, auto accidents
and HIV disease are all things that disproportionately affect young people;
you wouldn't expect to see much of an increase in HIV infections from a
drop in, say, Alzheimer's deaths, because the latter disproportionately
affect a population that has an extremely low rate of new HIV infections.
But you would expect a drop in Alzheimer's deaths to lead to an increase
in cancer deaths).
Ilena
I have attempted to stay away from Probert ... yet when someone stalks
me, I will find out who it is ... just like I did with this wacko.
"Nanaweedkiller" <nanawee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ZGd0a.58$5g7...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
Ilena
You also stated you were not RosenthalResearcher and NomdeGuerre ...
you were both of them too ... as well as the anonymous poster that in
your stupidity, you put your own name too.
You fool only the fools.
Mark Probert <mark_p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Wxg0a.129162$HG.20...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
Brandon Stahl
doh!
Amp amp amp... Massachusetts NO E !!!!
Damn native americans...
Orac
il...@san.rr.com (Ilena) wrote:
> Orac <Or...@mac.com> wrote in message news:<Orac-
> > Gee, talk about projecting one's own behavior onto one's enemies!
>
>
> Perfect example Davey Gorski ...of you not being able to assess
> causation ...
>
> I have tried to avoid Mark S Probert for years ... he continues to
> harass me ... under KKK aliases like the Coward he is.
You sure have a funny way of showing that you've been trying to avoid
him for years, especially your web page about him.
> You have it upside and backward.
Possibly, but I tend to doubt it.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"
Orac
Mark Probert <mark_p...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ilena wrote:
> > I have tried to avoid Mark S Probert for years ... he continues to
> > harass me ... under KKK aliases like the Coward he is.
>
>
> I really do not want to get into a tussle with you, but, I must respond.
>
>
> I have stated that I am NOT "Will Ketcher" and you claim that since WK
> posts through AOL, and I had posted through AOL, I am WK.
>
> Wrong. Look at the NNTP posting hosts, as you have done several times.
> Note the widely disparate addresses. Find ONE of my posts with WK's NNTP
> posting host. You cannot, because I am not WK.
Even if she could find such a post, it would still not prove that you
were WK. If it showed you and WK were both accessing AOL from the same
non-dialup IP address, that would certainly be very strong (but still
not completely airtight) circumstantial evidence that you were both the
same person, as it would show that you were both using the same computer
and Internet connection. On the other hand, if you and WK were shown to
be using an IP address deriving from the same dialup number, the most
that it would show is that you both live in the same area covered by
that particular AOL dialup number.
> Since I know that you will not believe anything I say, why not write to
> AOL and ask them for the geographic locations that correspond to the
> NNTP posting hosts? Hopefully, that should settle it, once and for all.
Actually, if Ilena is being harrassed by an AOL user she should formally
complain to AOL, which, if the posts to some of the groups in the
news.admin.net-abuse.* hierarchy are any guide, is fairly aggressive
about shutting down people who violate its Terms of Service. AOL would
likely figure out very quickly if it were one or two people harrassing
her.
[Snip]
amp_spamfree
I could have called it Massatwoshits - but I was nice. And you think
you have problems with names - try royalty, rivers, and shires.
Herman Rubin
Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>(null) <jep...@shell.ntrnet.net> wrote in message news:3e414...@news.buzzardnews.com...
>> In article <b1rc77$1b...@odds.stat.purdue.edu>,
>> Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote:
>> >In article <b1os5j$15guaf$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de>,
>> >Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>Ilena <il...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
>> >news:19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com...
>> >>> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<b1mlh3$
......................
>> >>YOU sure?????
>> >>I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
>> >Yes, BUT they have to provide FULL information to the
>> >patient, including full information about alternative
>> >treatments which are available, whether or not they like
>> >them.
>REALLY???????
>Where did you, the patient
>study biochemistry, physiology
>and pathology?????
One does not need to have that much of a knowledge to
understand the diagnosis; besides, if we had a DECENT
educational system, anyone who could graduate high
school would have enough of knowledge to do this.
The physician needs to translate the diagnosis so that
the patient's values and prior assumptions, and they
affect the action to be taken, can be considered.
Right now, because of the fact that this is not done,
physicians do not even have the full information
themselves.
The consultant should be working for the client, and
should act only with the knowledge and consent of the
client; this is in anything, not just medicine. If I
am asked for statistical help, I need to get the values
and assumptions of the client to act intelligently.
>>> That is diagnosis. Even alternatives to the
>> >testing policy need to be discussed; making another trip
>> >to get tested, which does not at this time get considered
>> >as a MEDICAL cost, needs to be included, and the time lost
>> >for other pursuits needs to be treated the same as other
>> >costs.
>All within 15 minutes according to your excellent
>EXCELLENT insurance!!!!!! What a laugh!!!
Only a fool expects anything intelligent in 15 minutes,
generally. What we have is not insurance at all, but
prepaid care, and the tragedy of the commons is the
result of this. What real insurance is invoked many
times a year?
>>> For a doctor to TELL a patient what to do should
>> >be automatic malpractice, unless the situation is urgent
>> >and there are no alternatives.
>Written like a true patient!!!!!!!
What is medicine for? If you want to have nanny care, ask
for it, and do not expect others to pay for it. Only
individual responsibility, which demands individual rights,
can get good results.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Deptartment of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Joel M. Eichen
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message >
> ......................
>
>
> >> >>YOU sure?????
>
Joel wrote:
> >> >>I leave medical diagnosis to the doctors!
>
> >> >Yes, BUT they have to provide FULL information to the
> >> >patient, including full information about alternative
> >> >treatments which are available, whether or not they like
> >> >them.
>
>
> >REALLY???????
>
>
> >Where did you, the patient
> >study biochemistry, physiology
> >and pathology?????
>
> One does not need to have that much of a knowledge to
> understand the diagnosis; besides, if we had a DECENT
> educational system, anyone who could graduate high
> school would have enough of knowledge to do this.
REPLY:
I agree with the latter however, kids today do not understand simple algebra, how to construct spreadsheet formulas, and how to
manipulate databases!
Back to medical diagnosis and dental diagnosis,,,
The biggest problems are the know-it-alls (see Jan Drew's posts, Ilena Rosenthal's posts, and the like) who believe that have some
grasp of the subject!!!
Joel M. Eichen DDS
-0558
Joel M. Eichen
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
> One does not need to have that much of a knowledge to
> understand the diagnosis; besides, if we had a DECENT
> educational system, anyone who could graduate high
> school would have enough of knowledge to do this.
> The physician needs to translate the diagnosis so that
> the patient's values and prior assumptions, and they
> affect the action to be taken, can be considered.
REPLY:
Absolutely not!
You pretend that getting the diagnosis and treatment
are akin to remodeling your kitchen!!!!!!
Your values do not change my diagnosis!
Sorry Bub.
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Joel M. Eichen
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
Joel wrote:
> >All within 15 minutes according to your excellent
> >EXCELLENT insurance!!!!!! What a laugh!!!
>
Herman replied,
> Only a fool expects anything intelligent in 15 minutes,
> generally. What we have is not insurance at all, but
> prepaid care, and the tragedy of the commons is the
> result of this. What real insurance is invoked many
> times a year?
>
REPLY:
Okay, so tell me you actually pay your doctor for his time, instead of pooling your money with the money of your co-workers and then
negotiating for the LOWEST possible payment to the Doc?
Basically, you get what you pay for, sometimes less .....
(kudos to Dr. Steve Fawks for giving me that phrase).
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Herman Rubin
>welcome to sci.med.beatupondocs
No, but I do not take the architect's plans without
full consultation, including asking for alternatives,
and I do not automatically accept the architect's
choice of method of construction, or of builder.
Diagnosis needs to present the available methods of
treatment as well, and the probability distributions
of the results. The malpractice laws need to be
revised so that one cannot sue for "bad luck". and
this cannot be eliminated.
Joel M. Eichen
In practice I agree with you ......
I am being the "Devil's Advocate," because the wind has shifted too much on this one!
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:b20k72$36...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> In article <b1s65e$167jlo$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de>,
> Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I suppose you build your own buildings (with a little
> >multiple choice from your architect)..................
>
> >welcome to sci.med.beat-up-on-docs
Herman Rubin
Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
>> One does not need to have that much of a knowledge to
>> understand the diagnosis; besides, if we had a DECENT
>> educational system, anyone who could graduate high
>> school would have enough of knowledge to do this.
>> The physician needs to translate the diagnosis so that
>> the patient's values and prior assumptions, and they
>> affect the action to be taken, can be considered.
>REPLY:
>Absolutely not!
>You pretend that getting the diagnosis and treatment
>are akin to remodeling your kitchen!!!!!!
They are more important, and the choice of action to be
taken is more important. But the choice of action to be
taken must not be made for me, assuming that my ideas of
the results are the same as yours.
>Your values do not change my diagnosis!
They SHOULD not change the diagnosis, but they might well
change the treatment. But if your diagnosis rejects
certain possibilities which I consider to be important, but
which you do not, it is your diagnosis which is at fault.
For example, if you do not think it should matter to me
whether I have a certain condition, and thus make no effort
to investigate it, and it does turn out to be the case, you
should bear responsibility for the harm.
Most medical diagnoses are far too incomplete. If a patient
suffers for six months because a physician leaves something
out of the diagnosis, the "pain and suffering" should not be
capped. If someone suffers because the action chosen by the
patient in full knowledge of the medical information available
happens to be wrong, there should be no liability.
Herman Rubin
Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Joel wrote:
>Herman replied,
>REPLY:
Which is why there should be choice, and not prepaid care
decided by the employer or the government. The cost of
prepaid care is in fact huge; one part of it not recognized
is the cost of the paperwork, etc., by the providers.
I would never have had the present type of insurance, except
that my employer provided it. What we need is MSAs, so that
the tax advantages of employer-provided prepaid care do not
operate, and real insurance for relatively rare events.
There was a proposal for dental "insurance" at Purdue, and I
notice that you are a dentist. There is no way that I could
have considered it remotely reasonable, as the cap on all
dental procedures except orthodontia was far too low. Even
then, it would have cost quite a bit.
Joel M. Eichen
DOC: "That gangrenous leg must be amputated."
PATIENT: Oh no its not ........ (jogging enthusiast)_
DOC: "I guess my diagnosis is at fault."
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:b20m61$k...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> In article <b20k2k$17abq4$2...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de>,
> Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
>
>
> >> One does not need to have that much of a knowledge to
> >> understand the diagnosis; besides, if we had a DECENT
> >> educational system, anyone who could graduate high
> >> school would have enough of knowledge to do this.
> >> The physician needs to translate the diagnosis so that
> >> the patient's values and prior assumptions, and they
> >> affect the action to be taken, can be considered.
>
> >REPLY:
>
> >Absolutely not!
>
> >You pretend that getting the diagnosis and treatment
> >are akin to remodeling your kitchen!!!!!!
>
> They are more important, and the choice of action to be
> taken is more important. But the choice of action to be
> taken must not be made for me, assuming that my ideas of
> the results are the same as yours.
>
> >Your values do not change my diagnosis!
>
> They SHOULD not change the diagnosis, but they might well
> change the treatment. But if your diagnosis rejects
> certain possibilities which I consider to be important, but
> which you do not, it is your diagnosis which is at fault.
REPLY:
DOC: "That gangrenous leg must be amputated."
PATIENT: Oh no its not ........ (jogging enthusiast)_
DOC: "I guess my diagnosis is at fault."
Joel M. Eichen
That is such a hoot! The complainers always shut up when they realize they CREATED the system!
When it comes time to pay, the tune changes!
***
> I would never have had the present type of insurance, except
> that my employer provided it
**************************************************
**************************************************
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:b20mlt$k...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
tools
"Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b20q9o$17vnfa$3...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
Herman Rubin
>DOC: "That gangrenous leg must be amputated."
>PATIENT: Oh no its not ........ (jogging enthusiast)_
>DOC: "I guess my diagnosis is at fault."
The doctor has NOT given an adequate diagnosis. The
diagnosis must include the probabilities of consequences
from the various actions; doctors tend to act as if the
consequences are certain, or if not, to only give some
of the probabilities. A full diagnosis must include the
probabilities of harm from amputation, which is sometimes
given, as well as the probabilities of results from the
various medical treatments, including no treatment, and
the consequences of each, also random. It should also
include costs, not just of the medical procedure, but of
the subsequent consequences. It HAS been recognized that
a patient has the right to refuse treatment which will
prolong life in an unacceptable (to the patient) manner;
it is also the case that physicians are often known to
ignore this, imposing the physicians' values.
>Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:b20m61$k...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
>> In article <b20k2k$17abq4$2...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de>,
>> Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
>> >> One does not need to have that much of a knowledge to
>> >> understand the diagnosis; besides, if we had a DECENT
>> >> educational system, anyone who could graduate high
>> >> school would have enough of knowledge to do this.
>> >> The physician needs to translate the diagnosis so that
>> >> the patient's values and prior assumptions, and they
>> >> affect the action to be taken, can be considered.
Herman Rubin
Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>SEE? Another innocent victim forced to take his employer's medical insurance that limits doctor visits to fifteen minutes!!!!
>That is such a hoot! The complainers always shut up when they realize they CREATED the system!
>When it comes time to pay, the tune changes!
I did not create the system. BTW, I doubt that the Purdue
faculty would not rise up against a system which limits
visits to the doctor to fifteen minutes; I have had some
which were even shorter (a brief examination, and agreement
that no further treatment was necessary), but most are much
longer.
We are paying through the nose for "managed" care. To do
something about it, we need to make those making medical
decisions for other than medical reasons financially
responsible for their actions. Unfortunately, Congressmen
and government bureaucrats are immune.
>> I would never have had the present type of insurance, except
>> that my employer provided it
Joel M. Eichen
Herman Rubin <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:b25i9b$20...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> In article <b20q9q$17vnfa$4...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de>,
> Joel M. Eichen <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >SEE? Another innocent victim forced to take his employer's medical insurance that limits doctor visits to fifteen minutes!!!!
>
> >That is such a hoot! The complainers always shut up when they realize they CREATED the system!
>
> >When it comes time to pay, the tune changes!
>
> I did not create the system.
REPLY:
Oh yes you did! YOU (collectively) bought into it!
In the early days of dental "insurance," (which its not by the way, its always dental pre-paid, never indeminification against
disaster), employees EMPLOYEES could not be found to even TAKE it for free!
The employers were willing to pay yet the employees knew there was danger is leaving their old, trusted, dental provider/friend!
Today loyalty is out the window yet you complain?????
RECENT AD: Discount dental plan ,,,,, $8.95 a month for your entire family ,,,,,,,, who gets it? Millions upon millions of people
...... Oh they just get screwed over AT THE DENTIST'S ....!
(See additional comments below)
Joel M. Eichen DDS
> BTW, I doubt that the Purdue
> faculty would not rise up against a system which limits
> visits to the doctor to fifteen minutes; I have had some
> which were even shorter (a brief examination, and agreement
> that no further treatment was necessary), but most are much
> longer.
>
> We are paying through the nose for "managed" care.
SIMPLE ANSWER:
A medical plan with a $3,000 yearly deductible ............ You pay ,,, unless you have a catastrophic problem, then you get help!
A $850,000 bill is catastrophic ,,,,,,,,,,, a $1,500 is not. You could hold down costs by getting smart. A bone marrow transplant is
$850K. A dental filling is less.
Your plan, your employer, your co-workers, not CONGRESS!!
Joel
Gym Bob
Women are like tea bags. You just never know how strong they are going to
get until they get in hot water!
ROFLMFAO!!!
"Ilena" <il...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com...
> Ilsa Nein (ils...@aol.com5554) asks:
>
>
> Hey, Mark, how did you practice law without going to Law School? ;)
>
>
>
>
> For details on this topic ... go to:
>
> http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
newsgroups are helpful and the give and take of each person
is important. That is why it is so crucial to weed out the
trouble-makers and malcontents, those that do not
contribute anything insupport ing others
or dispensing information regarding health matters.
You and I do NOT have any financial interests in promoting
one treatment over another, plus we give advice freely
and without discrimination or interrogation.
The information that you have presented over the years
is excellent and obviously a threat to those with
hidden agendas. Keep up the great work, honest
and caring people do appreciate it very very much.
Sir Arthur
In article <19faaec.03020...@posting.google.com>, Ilena says...
>
>There is only one "Mark S.Probert" in New York State ...
>
>There is only one "Mark S. Probert" in the 10th Judicial District ...
>
>
>It's amusing that your Mark has not commented ... ask him which Law
>School he attended ... ask him if the failed attorney that the NY Bar
>Association had to pay 6 disgruntled former clients is not he ...
>
>As far as "stalking" ... LOL
>
>I have tried to get away from this idiot for years ... he continues to
>this day posting on alt.support.breast-implant ... under his various
>aliases ...
>
>
>More amusing is the Quack / Health Frauds inability to correctly
>assess evidence ...
Orac
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. <nos...@newsranger.com>
wrote:
> You and I do NOT have any financial interests in promoting
> one treatment over another,
I can't speak about you because I don't believe I've ever encountered
you before on Usenet. However, while Ilena does not appear to have a
financial interest, she undeniably has such an incredibly strong
emotional investment and personal bias regarding certain treatments over
others and health issues (especially breast implants) that one really
should consider her advice at least as suspect as any advice from
someone with a financial interest in a particular treatment. After all,
to people with financial interests, it's just money. Ilena's biases
appear to be critical to her entire self-image as a lonely "crusader"
fighting against the "evils" of "big medicine" and any post that
questions her assertions is viewed as a personal attack, making her
harden her position. Ilena is no more likely to give unbiased
information than the owner of Dow-Corning, with the added problem that
she is probably much less likely to admit the possibility of her being
wrong about something.
>plus we give advice freely
> and without discrimination or interrogation.
One might point out that free advice is worth what one pays for it,
especially on the Internet, where anyone with a computer and Internet
connection can do it.
> The information that you have presented over the years
> is excellent and obviously a threat to those with
> hidden agendas. Keep up the great work, honest
> and caring people do appreciate it very very much.
Including her frequent posts about Mark Probert, who, as far as I can
tell from my observation over the last couple of months, has been trying
to avoid her?
Ilena
I'm going to dedicate today's page on
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm to YOU!
I've not wanted to put my time, money and energy any more in defending
your ridiculous psychological voodoo assumptions about me ...
Yet you continue ...
And your History Revision of Probert ... it's ridiculous ... only the
blindest would his outrageous lies about his lies ... did you see his
total fabrication that a woman from my group had wanted his child
dead, Davey?
No one in my group knew about him ... yet he claimed dozens of hate
letters ...
None of that happened ... yet you believe him ...
You also believe he has stopped harassing me? He has just sleazed into
several other names after I outed his Marla Maples ... yet you can't
see it.
If he fooled you ... who claims vast educational and intellectual
superiority ... God help your patients.
So in response to yet another Davey Gorski on Ilena Propaganda ...
visit:
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm
(check back if it isn't yet up)
Orac <Or...@mac.com> wrote in message news:<Orac-F7AF6B.1...@rcache2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
Orac
il...@san.rr.com (Ilena) wrote:
> And your History Revision of Probert ... it's ridiculous ... only the
> blindest would his outrageous lies about his lies ... did you see his
> total fabrication that a woman from my group had wanted his child
> dead, Davey?
No. Why don't you produce it for me? Post your best evidence, and I'll
consider it.
> No one in my group knew about him ... yet he claimed dozens of hate
> letters ...
Post your best evidence, and I'll consider it.
> None of that happened ... yet you believe him ...
You haven't really posted anything definitive to convince me. Post your
best evidence, and I'll consider it.
> You also believe he has stopped harassing me? He has just sleazed into
> several other names after I outed his Marla Maples ... yet you can't
> see it.
Please post your evidence then, and I'll consider it.
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
>
>Okay Davey ...
>
>I'm going to dedicate today's page on
>http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm to YOU!
>
>I've not wanted to put my time, money and energy any more in defending
>your ridiculous psychological voodoo assumptions about me ...
>
>Yet you continue ...
>
>And your History Revision of Probert ... it's ridiculous ... only the
>blindest would his outrageous lies about his lies ... did you see his
>total fabrication that a woman from my group had wanted his child
>dead, Davey?
>
>No one in my group knew about him ... yet he claimed dozens of hate
>letters ...
>
>None of that happened ... yet you believe him ...
>
>You also believe he has stopped harassing me? He has just sleazed into
>several other names after I outed his Marla Maples ... yet you can't
>see it.
I really go a laugh when Probate used the name
Marla Maples. It's really a shame he has to
harass you by using that name. A real sick-o, he is!
Mark Probert
A/K/A Richard Frager, A/K/A Art Wholeflaffer, A/K/A/ Jerry Kolnick.
Thrown off one ISP for posing as a doctor and dispensing medical advice.
Thrown off another ISP for stealing an article from the Washington Post,
altering it, and posting it to usenet.
Thrown of another ISP for being a deadbeat.
The Subject of the Origional FragerFAQ, written by me in October 1996
A known netloon...search on Fighters for Frager
Sir Artio
says...
>
>SNIP<
Nothing of importance! How's everything going Mark,
or should I say Marla?
Sir Artio
Sir Artio
Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con says...
>Marla???
Apparently Probate infiltrated Ilena Rose's self-help group for women
by using the name Marla. Probate got caught red-handed, and then
denied it, then admitted to it, and then obfuscated the whole issue.
But that is so typical of how he does things. I have asked him
repeatedly to stop his ridiculous accusations and seek help.
For his sake I hope he does!!
>On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:27:28 GMT, in alt.support.attn-deficit Sir Artio <nos...@newsranger.com>
>wrote:
Mark Probert
> OH how lame.. probert GET A LIFE
>
Try getting all the facts.
If you are interested, you should email me. If not, then stay uninformed.
I do not disucss this harassment in any public forum. To do so, gives
the scumbags credibility.
Mark Probert
I have not answered the bitch for nearly two years.
Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con wrote:
> Probert you've been stalking her for years, I've watched unfold here.
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con says...
>
>
>Probert you've been stalking her for years, I've watched unfold here.
Sad but true, that's our Proby. I have found Ilena Rose's
information helpful and well researched, I cannot say
the same about Probate though!
>
>On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:12:59 GMT, in alt.support.attn-deficit Mark Probert
><markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>
Ilena
> Sorry that you want to remain unclued.
>
> I have not answered the bitch for nearly two years.
Wrong Markie ...
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#ProbertTheCoward
Mark Probert
"Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in
message news:ojxfa.2431$S4....@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <9547abe4019817b7...@news.teranews.com>,
> Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con says...
> >
> >
> >Probert you've been stalking her for years, I've watched unfold here.
>
> Sad but true,
You would not know truth if it were stuck into your brain with a
proctoscope.
http://www.watchingyou.com/frager.html
Mark Probert
<Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con> wrote in message
news:9547abe4019817b7...@news.teranews.com...
>
> Probert you've been stalking her for years, I've watched unfold here.
1. I do not have two webpages dedicated to her.
2. Do you condone contacting the spouse of a poster? See:
http://www.google.com/groups?q=.mil+langer+group:alt.support.breast-implant&
hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=ilena-1212011512580001%40dt011n65.san.rr.co
m&rnum=4
I doubt you will change. However, the point has been made. I have no desire
to have any dealing with her. Period.
Mark Probert
I ran the above URl through makeashorterlink:
Mark Probert
<Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con> wrote in message
news:bb25cda0905a64e7...@news.teranews.com...
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:32:02 GMT, in alt.support.attn-deficit "Mark
Probert"
Someone in this newsgroup told me that you were a reasonable person, and
that you wee not a trouble making troll.
I hope that they realize that I did not provoke anything with you, and that
they were wrong.
SumBuny
"Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in
message news:ojxfa.2431$S4....@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <9547abe4019817b7...@news.teranews.com>,
> Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con says...
> >
> >
> >Probert you've been stalking her for years, I've watched unfold here.
>
> Sad but true, that's our Proby. I have found Ilena Rose's
> information helpful and well researched, I cannot say
> the same about Probate though!
The only thing I have noticed about Ilena here (in asad) is that she came
into a newsgroup without any connection to it (i.e., she has admitted to no
ADHD interest)...and the only thing she has done is posted diatribes against
Probert....
....isn't that *exactly* what she complained that he did to her?
How does this make her any different than what she says he did wrong? Does
her action make her different, or isn't this exact same thing?
IOW...it makes her a hypocrite each and every time she gripes about any
actions he supposedly does that are identical to hers....
--
--
Buny
-------" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to
be normal." ~ Albert Camus
Mark Probert
Hi Buny. In the course she teaches, Netstalking 101, she shows some of
her handiwork:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H49932FE3
If Borgie or Fartie wants to claim that I stalk her, I would like Borgie
or Fartie to post the following:
1. The URLs of the websites I made up about her.
2. The references to the messages where I posted the personal
information of her spouse.
3. The refeences to the messages where I threatened to contact her
spouse as she did to me.
If they cannot, then they should just shut up as they are routine,
nothing special, hypocrites.
Ilena
Ilena
Bunette ... did you like the part where your buddy failed attorney
Probert lied to you and the rest of his friends here on this newsgroup
and pretended he was a newbie?
If he lies to his friends ... imagine what he has done to those of us
he detests!
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#ProbertTheCoward
Ilena
Ilena
harassment of failed attorney Probert ...
He shares your control issues ...
You apparently loved it when he came to this very board and lied to
YOU that he was a newbie and loved pickles ... your support of his
lies tells everything about you ...
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#ProberttheCoward
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
>
>http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#ProberttheCoward
Factual!! Thank you for your efforts, Ilena. They make
these newsgroups and all of us better for it!!
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con says...
>
>
>
>Marla???
Oh, don't you know. When Proby infiltrated a women’s self-help
group by using the name Marla Maples. Luckily for us Ilena flushed him
out!! This is his standard MO, and then he'll accuse others of the actions
he got caught at. Try to humor Proby, he is very delusional and will
make statements that has nothing to do with reality!!
>On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:27:28 GMT, in alt.support.attn-deficit Sir Artio <nos...@newsranger.com>
>wrote:
>
Joel M. Eichen
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message news:kMCka.1708$W%4.2...@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <6737a68ec01b5303...@news.teranews.com>,
> Evil_SLK_driving_HMO_Borg_KOI@risperdal_popcorn.con says...
> >
> >
> >
> >Marla???
>
> Oh, don't you know. When Proby infiltrated a women's self-help
> group by using the name Marla Maples. Luckily for us Ilena flushed him
> out!!
REPLY:
I heard Ilena got flushed herself ...... Where the heck is she???
fred & michele
news:b6v1ol$9kaf3$8...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
It would depend on which hemisphere she's in -- the water swirls clockwise
in one, counterclockwise in the other.......<G>
Michele
Eric Lloyd
probably just some MIT AI programme which goes on and posts replies
and emails people randomly.
He's artificially intelligent.
"fred & michele" <heal...@concentric.net> wrote in message news:<b6v7o0$s...@dispatch.concentric.net>...
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
>
>From the look of his posts, It appears there is no Mark Probert, It is
>probably just some MIT AI programme which goes on and posts replies
>and emails people randomly.
>
>He's artificially intelligent.
I have a strong feeling you are 100% correct.
Well done!!
Mark Probert
> From the look of his posts, It appears there is no Mark Probert, It is
> probably just some MIT AI programme which goes on and posts replies
> and emails people randomly.
>
> He's artificially intelligent.
That sure beats having none.