Depression and ADD
vh
more broad question... And that is, how do you distinguish ADD from
depression, when many of the symptoms are the same? Is it possible that
I have been clinically depressed since I was six years old and that is
the reason why I have anxiety and am unable to concentrate?
The numerous self tests for ADD and depression I have taken suggest that
I could have etiher, or both, which seems the most likely.
I don't know to properly express how frustrated I am that I can't make
my mind work in the way I know it should. It led me to bite the bullet,
find a good psychiatrist and (in this case, since it's out of network)
shell out the cash to go. I spend the first hour talking to his
partner, a social worker, who is pleasant enough, and we go through
various forms to get information on my background. I get a lot of oh
mys and such, because I didn't grow up in the best circumstances. Then
he shows up, a 77 year old man, and listens dutifully. For a few
seconds, that is, before going on these seemingly endless rants that
remind me of my grandfather. He means well enough. When they praise me
on things they don't know much about and I express doubt, ohh, there's
your evidence that I have no self esteem and therefore hate myself. I'm
stretching it a bit here, because a lot of what they said is true, but I
almost felt like I was being ganged up on.
The point is. I had brought in a large letter I'd wrote describing my
symptoms and what I am having trouble with, which he didn't even read
until after I left. I wrote it all down because I knew I'd neglect to
mention half of it. And so he concludes I am depressed. I've been
depressed for so long, I don't know what it's like to not be depressed.
And because I have seemingly convinced myself ADD, I am making it harder
for myself to concentrate. I don't know how to explain that, for
instance, when I am unable to read a page in a book after many attempts,
it's not because my mind is shifting to some gloomy place, it's because
for whatever reason what I am reading isn't registering. I just get
distracted. By nothing at all.
He prescribed me Lexapro, and it was a take it or leave it kind of deal,
if I said no he was fine with that, but he wouldn't give me anything
that was ADD-specific or anything else for that matter. We'd have to
see after the next visit, you know? So I said what the hell, I'll try
it. And it made me feel so awful for the first two days. Now my body's
adjusting, I don't feel quite as bad, but I'm more edgy, I've lost my
appetite, and I feel more spaced out than ever. True enough, it could
pass after a few weeks, but for me that's a high price to pay !
Fuck, I don't know what I'm getting at. In my last post just about
everyone said I should go see another psychiatrist. It's harder than it
sounds because I don't have much to choose from around here, and it's
too late for me to cancel my next appointment anyway, which is tomorrow.
Is there a chance he's right? What chance is that? He still maintains
that Lexapro will help me with concentration (I see no evidence), that
it doesn't have many side effects, that it can work within a week, etc.
The nauseousness I felt for the first two days (and still, to a lesser
degree) was "my anxiety over taking the Lexapro". Now, I know how I
feel when I get nervous, and this was not it.
He did one good thing. When I called to express my concerns about the
Lexapro, he talked with me on the phone for quite a while about it, and
somehow managed to make me feel more at ease about it. But now the
doubt's creeping back in. I simply don't think I am depressed. I know
me. Better than he does. And it's like now that he seems to think that
I *want* to be diagnosed with add, he's less likely to take it
seriously. Have I reached a dead end?
Truth be told I wish I didnt have anything. But I dont feel like my
problems are natural, and I dont think they are the result of
depression. To learn about add, there was some comfort in that, because
everything I was going through was right there in front of me, perfectly
described. And its like a brand new battle now for me to face, that I
have to defend my views to someone who's supposed to be trying to help
me, and I am tired enough as it is...
If tomorrow doesn't go well I am probably not going to make another
appointment. Just sucks that I had to waste my time and money and
motivation to help myself for nothing.
-vh
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Fern5827
1. You need a complete physical checkup including blood tests for thyroid
hormones.
2. Even children can have thyroid deficiencies, which often look like
depression.
>And that is, how do you distinguish ADD from
>depression, when many of the symptoms are the same? Is it possible that
>I have been clinically depressed since I was six years old and that is
>the reason why I have anxiety and am unable to concentrate?
Or perhaps more anxiety than depression?
>who is pleasant enough, and we go through
>various forms to get information on my background. I get a lot of oh
Called a structured interview.
>Then
>he shows up, a 77 year old man, and listens dutifully. For a few
>seconds, that is, before going on these seemingly endless rants that
>remind me of my grandfather. He
Most psychiatrist are not the counselors, but are supposedly skilled in
pyschopharmacology--that is, prescribing the right med (or combo of meds) from
those available.
>t's harder than it
>sounds because I don't have much to choose from around here, and it's
>too late for me to cancel my next appointment anyway, which is tomorrow.
>t's harder than it
>sounds because I don't have much to choose from around here, and it's
>too late for me to cancel my next appointment anyway, which is tomorrow.
Many folks and families are in the same situation.
>it doesn't have many side effects, that it can work within a week, etc.
>The nauseousness I felt for the first two days (and still, to a lesser
>degree) was "my anxiety over taking the Lexapro". Now, I know how I
Get a hold of PDR from library for 03 and read the full prescibing information.
It seems to me that med management is mostly trial and error. But we are all
individuals--our DNA may respond differently to each med than what is the
standard expectation.
vH SENT IN:
>Subject: Depression and ADD
>From: vh no...@none.xyz
>Date: 4/30/2003 10:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Xns936DE6C01...@216.65.98.28>
Mike
in alt.support.depression.manic. Also, refer to my thread "SSRI (Celexa)
Making ADD Much Worse..." in alt.support.attn-deficit.
I know that I have "ADD", and like you, it has been unclear whether it may
in fact be based on depression.
In addition to ADD and possible depression, I have OCD and general anxiety
issues. None of this was clear to me until fairly recently. I coasted
through school, dropped out of college, but have done well due to my
computer skills. Only later did I realize that I had ADD (I didn't know
there was such a thing until the term became popularized in the early 90's.)
Similarly, I hadn't heard of OCD until I saw the movie "As Good As It Gets".
Following up on that (with a psychiatrist), I was so relieved to discover
the cause of my obtrusive thoughts and rituals (I used to read every
sentence twice...that was a big problem for me in school.)
Even at this point, I never suspected that I had general anxiety issues and
possible depression. The anxiety issues have only become clear to me in the
last couple of years. I used to be insanely jealous of my wife (well,
girlfriend at the time.) I had performance anxiety when speaking to a group
of people. I had performance anxiety in bed - Viagra fixed this problem.
Insomnia problems. And lots of other things that I had never realized.
And now, just within the last few weeks, I've come to realize the
possibility of depression as the root of my attention problems. Maybe even
bipolar disorder (I experience ups and downs, but not exactly happy/sad,
more like confident/inconfident). Again, I refer you to my other threads,
but to sum it up, I don't exactly feel sad, I just don't feel overjoyed. I
need a lot of stimulation to make me happy. I have some hypersexuality
issues that may be related to depression (addictive behavior is common among
depressives.)
I take Celexa, an SSRI that is basically the same as Lexapro (Lexapro is
essentially a more concentrated dose of Celexa; look it up for a more
precise description.) Celexa hasn't caused me any physical problems (like
nausea) or anything - UNLESS I miss a dose! If I miss a dose by just an
hour or two, I start feeling shaky and horrible. So be sure and take your
Lexapro at the same time each day!
Anyway, Celexa has helped my anxiety-related issues. I feel more calm. But
my ADD symptoms have gotten MUCH worse! I can barely get any work done now.
I spend hours reading news and surfing the net at work. I feel "dull",
uninspired. Hard to explain.
I *suspect* that my reaction to Celexa may be related to its effectiveness
on anxiety. Prior to Celexa, I had constant anxiety of some form - even
when I didn't realize it. That anxiety probably provided me with a constant
source of stimulation. Now that Celexa has decreased my anxiety, I'm no
longer getting that constant stimulation. Thus, my ADD symptoms are worse.
In fact, some of my hypersexuality issues have also gotten worse, perhaps
trying to compensate for the "excitement" that Celexa took away.
Anyway, I plan to discuss some of this with my doc next visit. Its been a
very introspective month for me.
Good luck.
Mike
"vh" <no...@none.xyz> wrote in message
news:Xns936DE6C01...@216.65.98.28...
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
<snipped>
>The point is. I had brought in a large letter I'd wrote describing my
>symptoms and what I am having trouble with, which he didn't even read
>until after I left. I wrote it all down because I knew I'd neglect to
>mention half of it. And so he concludes I am depressed. I've been
>depressed for so long, I don't know what it's like to not be depressed.
I know that one. Once upon a time, when I was having a bout of good
days, I asked my mother if she thought I might be manic-depressive.
She looked at me and said that I'd been soooo depressed for soooo long
that when I got up to normal, I thought I was having a manic bout.
>And because I have seemingly convinced myself ADD, I am making it harder
>for myself to concentrate. I don't know how to explain that, for
>instance, when I am unable to read a page in a book after many attempts,
>it's not because my mind is shifting to some gloomy place, it's because
>for whatever reason what I am reading isn't registering. I just get
>distracted. By nothing at all.
Dealing with my depression didn't make my AD/HD symptoms go away.
Yes, depression exacerbates the AD/HD symptoms, but it doesn't create
them. Not for me, anyhow. Perhaps you need to find a better-informed
doc.
>He prescribed me Lexapro, and it was a take it or leave it kind of deal,
>if I said no he was fine with that, but he wouldn't give me anything
>that was ADD-specific or anything else for that matter. We'd have to
>see after the next visit, you know? So I said what the hell, I'll try
>it. And it made me feel so awful for the first two days. Now my body's
>adjusting, I don't feel quite as bad, but I'm more edgy, I've lost my
>appetite, and I feel more spaced out than ever. True enough, it could
>pass after a few weeks, but for me that's a high price to pay !
Call your doc immediately abt these problems. If you don't want to
talk with the doc who prescribed the meds, call your PCP and speak
with him/her abt what's going on. And talk with your pharmacist.
Always, always, ALWAYS, when you're taking any sort of meds
(prescription, OTC, or herbal) talk with your pharmacist. It's a
doc's job to diagnose. It's a pharmacist's job to know the meds.
Kitten
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P. J. ORourke
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Courage, Real courage, is no quick fix. It doesn't come in a bottle
or a pill, It comes from discipline. From taking everything life
hands you and being your best either because of it or in spite of it.
-- Ty Murray
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
vh
> I know that I have "ADD", and like you, it has been unclear whether it
> may in fact be based on depression.
>
> In addition to ADD and possible depression, I have OCD and general
> anxiety issues. None of this was clear to me until fairly recently.
> I coasted through school, dropped out of college, but have done well
> due to my computer skills. Only later did I realize that I had ADD (I
> didn't know there was such a thing until the term became popularized
> in the early 90's.) Similarly, I hadn't heard of OCD until I saw the
> movie "As Good As It Gets". Following up on that (with a
> psychiatrist), I was so relieved to discover the cause of my obtrusive
> thoughts and rituals (I used to read every sentence twice...that was a
> big problem for me in school.)
Hey, that's me too. I'm only recenting coming to terms with the extent
of my ocd, I think because those behaviors became natural to me and I
never thought to question them.
> Even at this point, I never suspected that I had general anxiety
> issues and possible depression. The anxiety issues have only become
> clear to me in the last couple of years. I used to be insanely
> jealous of my wife (well, girlfriend at the time.) I had performance
> anxiety when speaking to a group of people. I had performance anxiety
> in bed - Viagra fixed this problem. Insomnia problems. And lots of
> other things that I had never realized.
Out of curiosity, did taking the viagra give you the confidence you
needed, or did it make it so that you could perform *while* having
anxiety? I wondered about that, because I have noticed in recent
experiences I have compulsively worried *about* worrying... and I bought
viagra as a 'just in case' but haven't used it (or had the opportunity
to I guess :)).
> I take Celexa, an SSRI that is basically the same as Lexapro (Lexapro
> is essentially a more concentrated dose of Celexa; look it up for a
> more precise description.) Celexa hasn't caused me any physical
> problems (like nausea) or anything - UNLESS I miss a dose! If I miss
> a dose by just an hour or two, I start feeling shaky and horrible. So
> be sure and take your Lexapro at the same time each day!
Hm. I've only been on the Lexapro for about a week. I don't feel
right. I know that can happen when starting any SSRI, but it usually
goes through phases, whereas with the Lexapro I feel drugged all the
time, and not the good kind of drugged.
So far, it's acted as a stimulant, fortunately not so much to affect my
sleep. My anxiety is worse. My memory's worse. I tend to space out.
My appetite is non-existent (the Sudafed effect; I feel constantly as if
I'm on pseudoephedrine). It got better after the first two days and
then leveled out with this constant shitty feeling.
> Anyway, Celexa has helped my anxiety-related issues. I feel more
> calm. But my ADD symptoms have gotten MUCH worse! I can barely get
> any work done now. I spend hours reading news and surfing the net at
> work. I feel "dull", uninspired. Hard to explain.
That is what I have read in postings by many other Celexa and Lexapro
users, so why is my doctor so convinced that it will help me with
concentration? That is what puzzles me. Also he acts like he's
prescribed it to many patients and they've done so well with it and so
on, but it hasn't even been on the market for more than what, six
months?
> I *suspect* that my reaction to Celexa may be related to its
> effectiveness on anxiety. Prior to Celexa, I had constant anxiety of
> some form - even when I didn't realize it. That anxiety probably
> provided me with a constant source of stimulation. Now that Celexa
> has decreased my anxiety, I'm no longer getting that constant
> stimulation. Thus, my ADD symptoms are worse.
I know that much of my anxiety stems from having no confidence in my own
abilities. That lack of confidence is reinforced every time I can't
think of the right word, listen attentively, forget,. etc.
I'm about ready to quit the Lexapro. I'm making arrangements to see
another psychiatrist (who's actually covered by my insurance), I'm just
waiting for them to call me back to schedule the appointment. I still
have that appointment tonight with my current pdoc which is going to
cost me $140, a big waste, but I can't cancel now. I'll try and re-
iterate my concerns, stress that I feel as though we're approaching this
all wrong, and see where it goes. Maybe we can make progress. If not,
I won't be returning. I hate how this drug is making me feel. I don't
think I could go through another week of this.
regards
Mike
> needed, or did it make it so that you could perform *while* having
> anxiety? I wondered about that, because I have noticed in recent
> experiences I have compulsively worried *about* worrying... and I bought
> viagra as a 'just in case' but haven't used it (or had the opportunity
> to I guess :)).
I had the exact same problem (worried about being worried). I would start
to perform, and then worry about getting worried and losing my erection.
And that of course was a self-fulfilling prophesy. Viagra allows me to
perform even while anxious, which in turn makes me more confident, and thus
less anxious.
> Hm. I've only been on the Lexapro for about a week. I don't feel
> right. I know that can happen when starting any SSRI, but it usually
> goes through phases, whereas with the Lexapro I feel drugged all the
> time, and not the good kind of drugged.
>
> So far, it's acted as a stimulant, fortunately not so much to affect my
> sleep. My anxiety is worse. My memory's worse. I tend to space out.
> My appetite is non-existent (the Sudafed effect; I feel constantly as if
> I'm on pseudoephedrine). It got better after the first two days and
> then leveled out with this constant shitty feeling.
You mention that your anxiety is worse since starting the Lexapro. This is
a fairly common side effect when starting an SSRI. I once tried Luvox, with
a different psychiatrist, and it made me very jittery, so I quit taking it.
I think it may be an issue of titration - slowly increasing your dosage to
the right level (for you). My current doctor started me out on just 5mg/day
of Celexa, then 10mg, then 20mg, and now 30mg/day. I haven't had any of the
jitteryness that I did when I started Luvox - I think that my current doctor
just did a better job of slowly increasing my dosage. My attention problems
have gone to hell, and I have delayed ejaculation problems now, but no other
problem side effects. It has clearly helped my anxiety.
Now, as far as I know, Lexapro only comes in 10mg and 20mg doses. The
recommended starting dose (and for most people, the continuing dose) is
10mg/day, which I assume is what you are taking. Well, according to the
manufacturer, that is *functionally* equivalent to about 40mg of Celexa!
So, in effect, you are going straight to a therapeutic dose without any sort
of titration. That may be why it is causing you so many problems. So, you
might consider sticking with it for a while longer, if you can.
Alternatively, maybe your doctor could slowly start you out on Celexa, and
then later switch you over to Lexapro. (The reason to switch is that,
supposedly, Lexapro has fewer side effects - like sexual dysfunction - than
Celexa. However, there appears to be some debate about this.)
I'm going to suggest adding a stimulant - like Concerta - to my regimen in
place of Strattera, and see if that helps my concentration. I also want to
consider Wellbutrin, because some people say that it can help mitigate some
of the sexual side effects of SSRIs. And I may switch to taking the Celexa
at night, hoping that might help my sleep problems.
> That is what I have read in postings by many other Celexa and Lexapro
> users, so why is my doctor so convinced that it will help me with
> concentration? That is what puzzles me. Also he acts like he's
> prescribed it to many patients and they've done so well with it and so
> on, but it hasn't even been on the market for more than what, six
> months?
Yeah, it hasn't been out for long. There is probably a big marketing push
by the manufacturer to get doctors to prescribe it. They keep touting the
reported fewer side effects of Lexapro versus Celexa and other SSRIs. But
these reports of questionable. These same reports say that sexual
dysfunction occurs in only about 20% of people that take SSRIs (other than
Lexapro); most people seem to believe that the real number is much, much
higher.
> > I *suspect* that my reaction to Celexa may be related to its
> > effectiveness on anxiety. Prior to Celexa, I had constant anxiety of
> > some form - even when I didn't realize it. That anxiety probably
> > provided me with a constant source of stimulation. Now that Celexa
> > has decreased my anxiety, I'm no longer getting that constant
> > stimulation. Thus, my ADD symptoms are worse.
>
> I know that much of my anxiety stems from having no confidence in my own
> abilities. That lack of confidence is reinforced every time I can't
> think of the right word, listen attentively, forget,. etc.
Your symptoms sound similar to mine. Don't discount the depression idea. I
never would have considered it either until recently. The whole drug
treatment thing is like a big experiment; you keep making adjustments until
you find something that works.
If I can fix my attention problems, I'll be in pretty good shape. Well,
except for the annoying delayed ejaculation. There is some anecdotal
evidence of ways to help with that, I'll have to research them and see.
> I'm about ready to quit the Lexapro. I'm making arrangements to see
> another psychiatrist (who's actually covered by my insurance), I'm just
> waiting for them to call me back to schedule the appointment. I still
> have that appointment tonight with my current pdoc which is going to
> cost me $140, a big waste, but I can't cancel now.
I did the same thing initially - went to a psych outside my insurance plan,
mainly because I didn't want my insurance company to find out I had mental
health issues. I had to quit going; it was too expensive. So now I'm going
with the insurance. I get less time with the doctor, but at least its only
$15 per visit!
Anyway, think about what I said about titration.
Good luck,
Mike
vh
> And that of course was a self-fulfilling prophesy. Viagra
> allows me to perform even while anxious, which in turn makes me more
> confident, and thus less anxious.
That's good to know.
> You mention that your anxiety is worse since starting the Lexapro.
> This is a fairly common side effect when starting an SSRI. I once
> tried Luvox, with a different psychiatrist, and it made me very
> jittery, so I quit taking it. I think it may be an issue of titration
> - slowly increasing your dosage to the right level (for you). My
> current doctor started me out on just 5mg/day of Celexa, then 10mg,
> then 20mg, and now 30mg/day. I haven't had any of the jitteryness
> that I did when I started Luvox - I think that my current doctor just
> did a better job of slowly increasing my dosage. My attention
> problems have gone to hell, and I have delayed ejaculation problems
> now, but no other problem side effects. It has clearly helped my
> anxiety.
Yeah, I mentioned this to him. First of all he claims that Lexapro is
completely different than Celexa, otherwise the FDA wouldn't have
approved it. So my point was lost on him.
When I discussed my symptoms with him tonight, what I have been going
through as a result of taking the Lexapro, he said to just stop. Not to
cut them in half or anything, just stop. Next week he says he's going
to prescribe me a Tricyclic AD, which will help me with "anxiety,
concentration, and sleep". He's further convinced that I don't have
add, he "just doesn't see it", and I don't know, maybe he's right, how
the honk should I know. All I know is that the rest of what he says
doesn't seem to add up. In a book I have in front of me it says
"tricyclic antidepressants are used less these days than SSRI
antidepressants because they tend to have more troublesome side
effects". Yay! It also seems to be more for panic related troubles
than social phobia, or hell, concentration, memory, etc.
You see, what he believes is that *because* I think I have add (and this
is only a recent thing, mind you, I didnt always believe I had it), and
because I dont have enough self-confidence, I *therefore* have created
for myself all the symptoms of add. Because I don't think I can
concentrate, I cant, effectively. And because I have had anxiety for
all of my life, it must mean the anxiety is the root of everything.
Now I'm not saying outright that he's wrong. But then, he hasn't
managed to convince me otherwise.
> (The reason to switch is that, supposedly, Lexapro has fewer side
> effects - like sexual dysfunction - than Celexa. However, there
> appears to be some debate about this.)
After five Lexapro days I can tell you that you can end the debates, I'm
already experiencing anorgasmia to some degree. It worsens by the day.
It's sort of this .. numbness. Anyway, maybe it's just me and SSRIs.
> I'm going to suggest adding a stimulant - like Concerta - to my
> regimen in place of Strattera, and see if that helps my concentration.
> I also want to consider Wellbutrin, because some people say that it
> can help mitigate some of the sexual side effects of SSRIs. And I may
> switch to taking the Celexa at night, hoping that might help my sleep
> problems.
He refuses to give me a stimulant or anything add-related. And yet he
says he deals with other add patients, so I don't know.
> Yeah, it hasn't been out for long. There is probably a big marketing
> push by the manufacturer to get doctors to prescribe it. They keep
> touting the reported fewer side effects of Lexapro versus Celexa and
> other SSRIs. But these reports of questionable. These same reports
> say that sexual dysfunction occurs in only about 20% of people that
> take SSRIs (other than Lexapro); most people seem to believe that the
> real number is much, much higher.
He claims that he doesn't meet with reps from the pharmaceutical
companies, and that he's going on experience with his own patients.
I also believe that number is much, much higher. Like somewhere around
80%.
> If I can fix my attention problems, I'll be in pretty good shape.
> Well, except for the annoying delayed ejaculation. There is some
> anecdotal evidence of ways to help with that, I'll have to research
> them and see.
The wellbutrin could help, from what I've read. Watch out, though, it's
got a nasty tendency to cause insomnia. Did for me anyway, and didn't
help squat with anything. No sexual dysfunction though.
> I did the same thing initially - went to a psych outside my insurance
> plan, mainly because I didn't want my insurance company to find out I
> had mental health issues. I had to quit going; it was too expensive.
> So now I'm going with the insurance. I get less time with the doctor,
> but at least its only $15 per visit!
>
> Anyway, think about what I said about titration.
I don't even know what I should do anymore... I am real confused. I'm
gonna probably make that appointment with the other psychiatrist to
simply get a second opinion. For now I guess I'll quit the Lexapro, as
I only have a few more pills. Unless maybe I should cut to half and
call him up to prescribe more? I just dont know. This guy doesn't seem
to have any clue when it comes to 'weaning on' medication and how SSRIs
generally make things worse before they make things better.
summer rain
read, beepers should never take a tricyclic!
"vh" <no...@none.xyz> wrote in message
news:Xns936EDD410...@216.65.98.28...
Emma Anne
> I brought this up in my last post about Lexapro, but I'd like to ask a
> more broad question... And that is, how do you distinguish ADD from
> depression, when many of the symptoms are the same? Is it possible that
> I have been clinically depressed since I was six years old and that is
> the reason why I have anxiety and am unable to concentrate?
It's tough, especially since around 70% of adult ADDers are *also*
depressed. Depression includes things like lack of energy and either
misery or numbness, though.
Byte Me
diagnosable 'disorders' when in reality the 'dual diagnosis' simply
means that a shrink hasn't a clue as to what is going on with someone
and is simply guessing in order to cover his own ass.
It would assist psychiatrists greatly if they actually listened to their
'patients' instead of simply making presumptions based upon one of their
own convoluted interviews. Sadly, in my experience shrinks are only good
at listening to the clamoring of their own egos.
Morph Grrl
>
>In addition to ADD and possible depression, I have OCD and general anxiety
>issues. None of this was clear to me until fairly recently. I coasted
>through school, dropped out of college, but have done well due to my
>computer skills. Only later did I realize that I had ADD (I didn't know
>there was such a thing until the term became popularized in the early 90's.)
>Similarly, I hadn't heard of OCD until I saw the movie "As Good As It Gets".
>Following up on that (with a psychiatrist), I was so relieved to discover
>the cause of my obtrusive thoughts and rituals (I used to read every
>sentence twice...that was a big problem for me in school.)
Sometimes, though, ADHDers develop obsessive-like rituals, so that we
can "remember" what to do, or when to do it. So I think with some
ADHDers it may not be true OCD. That's not saying it can't co-exist
with ADHD, but that I just wonder how many of us ADHDers have our
little routines or "rituals" so that we can get through the day.
That's definitely true about what you said with the anxiety providing
stimulation. (in the part that got snipped, though). I found that to
be true as well. Sometimes I'd get frustrated in a sense that helping
my anxiety has caused problems remembering some of the things that I
need to do, because of it being treated. But then again, as long as I
take my meds when I'm supposed to it's not as much of a problem.
In all situations new behaviors or tactics need to be implemented, so
you gain in one area but lose a bit in another. Overal, I'd say I'm
happy with my current meds, especially since it means I can drive a
car because my anxiety is medicated.
marcie
"Emma Anne" <mb...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1fudohe.14ma6tc1jh0gzoN%mb...@earthlink.net...
Uh there is a comorbidity rate and people with ADHD are more likely ot get
depressed but i don't think 70% go into clinical depressions, or one's big
enough to actually hit in the DSM. The official line of comorbidity with
other mental illnesses was 30% last time i checked...has there been some new
research done?
Marcie
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marcie
"Emma Anne" <mb...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1fudohe.14ma6tc1jh0gzoN%mb...@earthlink.net...
>
> > I brought this up in my last post about Lexapro, but I'd like to ask a
> > more broad question... And that is, how do you distinguish ADD from
> > depression, when many of the symptoms are the same? Is it possible that
> > I have been clinically depressed since I was six years old and that is
> > the reason why I have anxiety and am unable to concentrate?
>
was diagnosed at eight. But then i was being abused in the home. After
puberty started there was a marked change in my depression and it became
more clearly a chemical problem (not that my life situation helped). For me
i don't think i was clinically depressed at 8 but i wasn't a happy girl
either.
Generally there are a few ways to try and distinguish and or deal with
having both depression and add. If you have periods of time when you aren't
depressed (a lot of people do...i'm having my first real go at that after 12
years of fiddling with meds) and you can concentrate fine then, it is not
likely to be ADD. If you improve the level of your depression (ie you don't
make it to undepressed but you do make it to less depressed) and you still
have exactly the same problems concentrating you might have add.
Also it would be good to go through old report cards if you can get them and
check the comments section. personally i have found the difference in
concentration due to ADD and due to depression somewhat different. If you
had any hyperactivity you might be able to pin that down in your early
report cards, or try talking to your parents. If hyperactivity was present
there is a good chance of ADD.
I don't know what country you are posting too...it would help if you could
tell me if you were from Britian, Canada or the US....because how they deal
with adult adhd is different in each country. One of the possibilities you
might want to strongly consider (if you can't figure out if it is add or
not) is taking an anti-depressant that would usually help add. the standard
one for that is desipramine or imipramine depending on how you sleep
[imipramine if you have troubles sleeping....although they have more side
effects than other ad's that are more advanced i found they worked better on
my add...but not on the depression for me so we had to change. Other
possible mixes include effexor (get the slow release if you can),
Wellbutrin, Mannerix (although you need to make sure you won't have to take
some other drugs to take this one safely...if you want more info i can post
it again [most here have seen it already]...you can't get mannerix in the
states but you can in canada and most of europe.
I hope this is of some help although it doesn't cover all the
information....i would think another test COULD be if you took an ssri and
your depression AND concentration problems went away. Although i have heard
of a few cases in which ssri's helped add they generally don't make any
difference in concentration or they get rid of the depression concentration
problem but not the add (i got to learn this personally when an expert
waived off my concern that he was changing me from imiprmaine to paxil even
though i had a childhood and likely addult diagnosis of adhd...in the middle
of the school term i couldnt' concentrate on a book more than 15
minutes...however it did lead into me getting a much better situation in the
long run)
marcie
"Byte Me" <byt...@nana.com> wrote in message
news:3EB3F4C1...@nana.com...
> You talk about these things as though they were separately-occurring
> diagnosable 'disorders' when in reality the 'dual diagnosis' simply
> means that a shrink hasn't a clue as to what is going on with someone
> and is simply guessing in order to cover his own ass.
>
> It would assist psychiatrists greatly if they actually listened to their
> 'patients' instead of simply making presumptions based upon one of their
> own convoluted interviews. Sadly, in my experience shrinks are only good
> at listening to the clamoring of their own egos.
>
i've had some really bad one's) the woman i am with now lets me make rx
suggestions and try and make a case, lets me take initiative towards changes
within certain guidlines with my meds and reacted fine when i said i felt i
didn't need one anymore and could we get rid of it. she is very responsive
to me....we talked about it and she says she does it partly because it is
clear i have issues with control that really aren't of my own doing and that
can sabotage therapy she found if she didn't listen. of course i don't get
to ask for anything but within reason i can get quite a range of drugs. It
also helps that she knows that i know how they work. Also i suggested on AD
that broke a depression six months before it was suggested to her for my
case and it worked...after that she took me more seriously.
i've been with her over 5 years though. the relationship was not like that
at the beginning.
And she does have limits on what she will rx. its just that within a certain
range if i feel i need a certain one and can justify it she will usually
give me some. this has been helped by the fact that i tend to use some drugs
i ask for for very specific situations (for example i take ativan when
having problems with a ocdish type thing or when i am having momentary
problems as i go off the drug i was taking before for anxiety....but i don't
use all that much so it doesn't bother her...she wanted to know why i didn't
just take the valium and i said it was because the other drug didn't make me
sleepy and i didn't always want to feel like taking a nap...i got a small rx
for it and for me i went through it quick (the dosing was a bit off i needed
to take more pills per time, which was discussed with her but it was still
relatively slow.)
There ARE a lot of terrible shrinks out there though. Many shrink hate me
because i challenge their view of themselves as being so much higher than
me. yes they have more medical knowledge but as you say i know what is going
on in MY head not them. My experience has been though that the shrinks thath
are not made nervous by this are the one's that are very good (their ego
isn't going to be hurt by someone who wants to help themselves in ways they
feel correct-they usually like the fact that you are interested and active
in your own treatment)
all that said of meds i am a big proponent of counselling and meds usually
going together although occaisionally i take a counselling break. haven't
done one in a while and my drugs have gotten to complex for my GP but unless
there was a big change (and sometimes there is) my drug could be done on a
once a month basis but i see my doc every week.
YMMV
marcie
"Morph Grrl" <som...@nowhereelse.com> wrote in message
news:cor8bvs3e1q34cccq...@4ax.com...
ruminating is blamed on my ADD, a way to keep my brain awake they say....
marcie