SSRI Apathy Syndrome--mechanism and solution
Marie
cognitive function, and a whole lot more.
There is a balance of norepinephrine and serotonin in this area. Long-
term use of SSRIs increase serotonin in frontal areas, but crowd out
norepinephrine. The result is brain fog, difficulty concentrating,
loss of confidence, lack of motivation, and mental fatigue. Apathy is
also a common complaint, despite evidence that negative symptoms of
depresison are reduced or remove. IOW, someone may say that they feel
"undepressed," but tired and unmotivated.
This apathy complaint is not reported with SNRIs to the same degree.
The apathy/mental dulling/mental tiredness is real.
Curcumin with piperine, dose-dependent, synergizes with SSRIs and
increase norepinephrine and serotonin in frontal areas according to
research. Whether or not this may help when taken with SSRIs is
unknown, since SSRIs leave serotonin concentrations frontal areas.
COX-2 inhibitors do the same thing. It also increases dopamine in the
frontal cortex and striatum for dealing with amotivational syndrome
and inability to feel feelings.
Curcumin with piperpine is an herb from India.
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marg...@optonline.net
>The frontal areas of brain are associated with mood, motivation.
>cognitive function, and a whole lot more.
>
>There is a balance of norepinephrine and serotonin in this area.
there is a balance of these amines everywhere but especially within
the amygdala, and throughout the limbic system of the brain and the
intestines
Long-
>term use of SSRIs increase serotonin in frontal areas, but crowd out
>norepinephrine.
this is not really true-first it isn't an increase level of serotonin
that creates the effects it is the tangential increase of serotonin
receptors post synaptically that creates the so called mood elevation
of antidepressants. The result is brain fog, difficulty
concentrating,
>loss of confidence, lack of motivation, and mental fatigue.
these side effects vary with each drug and each persons individual
reaction to them-these drugs have both a sedating and stimulating
effect that can exist simultaneously as well as various other
reactivities like muscarininc, anticholingergic, increased levels of
vascular congestion, blood volume changes, iris changes and pupilary
changes, effects on memory channels, perceptual channels etc.. Apathy
is
>also a common complaint, despite evidence that negative symptoms of
>depresison are reduced or remove. IOW, someone may say that they feel
>"undepressed," but tired and unmotivated.
flatness of affect is a common side effect of all antidepressants
regardless of the class with the exception of amphetamine and its
analogues, however those drugs have a crash and burn effect when the
drugs effects wear off
>
>This apathy complaint is not reported with SNRIs to the same degree.
actually it is present equally from my experience and I would
challenge any study that indicates or expresses a different
conclusion. The newer drugs including all venlafaxine derivitives that
are so called snri medication have a higher potency level at the
synapse so apathy is more acutely seen then with older tca meds with
similar activity in the brain. Over past decades of the use of these
drugs excuses were made about the apathy reaction as a sequlae of the
remission of depression, as if some emotional component of attachment
to the depression was being manifested psychologically-until the
prozac explosion and massive scripting to a large broad spectrum of
the population. People were not reacting appropriately to anxiety or
sadness that is a normal response to various environmental stimuli-the
drugs were blocking not only depression but also ones ability to feel
happiness, joy, elation, love, guilt, remorse, grief, etc,,in fact a
large increase in narcissistic personality disordered behaviors were
noted by all kinds of health care practitioners who worked with
patients who were using all classes of antidepressants. What one needs
to weigh is the benefit versus risk of using these meds-a small
controlled level of apathy is fine, one can learn compensatory
mechanisms to overcome life altering affectual changes-but if these
mood changes manifest in a major manner, the patient is erroneoulsy
called "hypomainc" or the patients new behaviors are seen as "healing"
when in fact that are neither and a lowering of dose may be a good
idea or changing the medication to any other one to see if the
response may be as good in a therapeutic way with less negative
consequences or side effects
>
>The apathy/mental dulling/mental tiredness is real.
>
>Curcumin with piperine, dose-dependent, synergizes with SSRIs and
>increase norepinephrine and serotonin in frontal areas according to
>research. Whether or not this may help when taken with SSRIs is
>unknown, since SSRIs leave serotonin concentrations frontal areas.
>COX-2 inhibitors do the same thing. It also increases dopamine in the
>frontal cortex and striatum for dealing with amotivational syndrome
>and inability to feel feelings.
>
>Curcumin with piperpine is an herb from India.
cox 2 inhibitors increase the effectiveness of antipsychotic drugs in
particular the newer ones by changing the way they are metabolized and
by also increasing their mechanism of action synaptically and may
increase some dopaminergic activity in brain and other tissue-but it
is not reliable and is unpredictable and in most instances
inconsequential to therapeutic effect. Patients who are using drugs
like celebrex may need to decrease their dose of drugs like quetiapine
or ziprasadone and the like-rarely do they need to adjust
antidepressant doses except to reduce nsaid activity of blood
thinning which can become augmented by the ad drug
herbs are really unregulated drugs with very unreliable dosing and
consistency in the active component in each pill-before using any herb
it is best to discuss it with your prescribing doctor. Some of these
products contain very powerful alkaloids or other organically active
chemicals that may have all kinds of effects, some possibly positive
and helpful but other possibly life threatening-many people developed
serotonin syndrome combining ssri meds with organic antidepressant
herbs
Mary
Haven't seen you around here for a long time. I missed you and your
posts and I'm sure everybody did. Hope you stay around.
Mary
<marg...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:67buh5p0h8vvdupkn...@4ax.com...
An inquiring mind
> The frontal areas of brain are associated with mood, motivation.
> cognitive function, and a whole lot more.
>
> There is a balance of norepinephrine and serotonin in this area. �Long-
> term use of SSRIs increase serotonin in frontal areas, but crowd out
>
I doubt this is true. If anything, antidepressants (ADs) actually
reduce brain
serotonin levels over time. The 'Chemical-imbalance' theory was
disproved a
long time ago. ADs do not work by raising neurotransmitter levels.
>
> Curcumin with piperine, dose-dependent, synergizes with SSRIs and
> increase norepinephrine and serotonin in frontal areas according to
> research.
>
>
> Curcumin with piperpine is an herb from India.
>
been done with mice.
Unlike in mice, curcumin has low bio availability in humans so most of
it doesn't make it out
of the intestines and much of what does is metabolized as soon as it
hits the liver.
Piperine, the main alkaloid of pepper ihas been shown to increase
bioavailability by
2,000%, but this is off a very tiny base and the effect is short
lived.
[ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9619120 ]
Be aware that piperine's effect is not limited to curcumin. It may
boost the bio availability of
some medications too. Please check with the prescribing physician or a
pharmacist before
taking piperine while on medication.
Dance-Barnes ST, et al have reported that the percentage of lung
lesions increased by
66% when curcumin was added to the diet of lung cancer susceptible
transgenic mice
compared to only 19% in such mice not fed curcumin.
[ http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/bgp082v1 ]
While this finding seems at odds with a considerable body of evidence
indicating that
curcumin may be an effective anti cancer agent, almost all such
research has been
conducted in vitro (test tube) which may not be telling the whole
story.
If you are a current or ex smoker, or have other lung cancer risk
factors then it may be
best to avoid curcumin supplements until further research clarifies
the risks.