Total fleet strength of the Galactic Empire.
Commander Thelea
various calculations, and this so called "6 million ship"
Imperial fleet. The problem is that with six million ships,
there would be less than one ship per system according to the
WEG figure of "One million member worlds and fifty million
colonies, protectorates and governorships." Well.. Lets try to
figure out some realistic fleet numbers based on that.
In "The Truce at Bakura" we have an Imperial force, according
to listed numbers of gunships, one of losses, and one of Carrack
cruisers, a total of 2 Carrack Cruisers and 4 gunships as a
defence force. A gunship is a vessel similiar in size to
Corvette, but devoted to combat purposes, incidently.
Alright, now, Bakura is a small world, less than 100 million
people in population, undoubtably falling under the "Colonies,
Protectorates and Governorships" figure. Therefore, for direct
system defence of each of those minor worlds, we can expect a
grand total of 100 million ships comparable to Carrack Cruisers,
and 200 million ships comparable to gunships/corvettes.
Remember, this is only counting Hyperdrive capable ships over
100 meters in length, not the non-hyperdrive capable system
patrol craft, of which there are, according to The Truce at
Bakura, six assigned to each of those systems.
Next, the bigger fish.. The one million member worlds.
(Presumably those with populations greater than one billion, ten
billion, or some such figure.)Now, in the WEG Imperial
Sourcebook, it is stated that a Squadron is normally the largest
force assigned to a system. This is a squadron not as in a
fighter squadron, but rather a squadron (Or Flotilla) of
warships. A standard squadron for use in system could easily be
a so called "Heavy Squadron" with 18-24 ships. These oftentimes
contain Victory class Star Destroyers. Let us assume that the
average Heavy Squadron for system defence is made up of 1 VSD, 2
Dreadnoughts, 2 Carrack Cruisers, and 1 Nebulon-B frigate, along
with 12 gunship sized vessels. This would add 2 million
Dreadnoughts, 2 million Carrack cruisers, 1 million Nebulon-B
frigates, 12 million gunships, and 1 million of the impressive
VSDs to the Imperial Navy for defending it's major systems.
Next.. On to Sector fleets, which are used as quote "Sector
resources", unquote. Essentially, a Sector fleet is a "National
Guard" availible for the command of a Sector Moff, like a
systems defence force is a "National Guard" availible for the
command of a planetary or system wide governor.
A fully augmented Sector fleet contains 3,200 combat vessels,
including 64 ISDs. This suggests, considering the figure
of "1,024 sectors" during the old republic, that another
3,200,000 combat vessels and around 65,000 ISDs can be added to
the Imperial Starfleet.
Next.. On to Oversectors. Oversector fleets would be
essentially like the Nation Guard given to a Grand Moff; Since
it is under civilian control and not military control, it still
isn't quite a frontline military endeavour. An oversector has
two Sector groups; We don't know how many oversectors there are,
but atleast one for each Grand Moff mentioned in literature.
However, their resources are most likely far less than those of
the total number of sectors combined. They can simply bring more
to bear on a particular area. We will assume that around 700,000
more ships are availible for Oversectors, in addition to some
10,000 - 15,000 ISDs.
Now.. The big question is.. "But I thought the Empire only had
25,000 ISDs!" The answer is simple. In all of the sources where
it says that, it's called "The Imperial Navy." As Curtis Saxton
points out, Canon literature calls it the "Imperial Starfleet."
This gives rise to a theory of mine: The Imperial Starfleet is
all Imperial ships, including Oversector, Sector, and planetary
forces... And.. The Imperial Navy. The Imperial navy would be an
elite force of 25,000 ISDs, and, based on the number of escort
ships for the Executor in ESB, and assuming that to be average,
5,000 - 10,000 ships larger than ISDs. This is the Empire's
offensive warfleet, divided up among the twelve Grand Admirals
and the various personal retainers of the Emperor. Therefore,
there would be 25,000 ISDs in the Imperial navy, but an
additional 75,000 or so in the rest of the Starfleet.
Adding all of these figures up, we can come up with a total
Hyperspace capable fleet for the Galactic Empire:
322,000,000 (322 Million) ships smaller than an ISD.
100,000 ISDs.
5,000-10,000 ships larger than ISDs.
Divided up among all the planets of the Empire, we get 13
Hyperspace capable ships for every 2 planets in the Galactic
Empire, or 6.5 for each planet.
Now, remember that out of all this fleet, only 25,000 ISDs and
5,000 - 10,000 larger ships would be able to invade another
Galaxy; the other 322,000,000 ships would be defending the
Empire against Pirates, Rebels, ect.
I believe this can also account for the Dodonna calcs when you
consider that some of those 5,000 - 10,000 ships have up to 100
times the firepower of an ISD.
Finally, a little note or two of trivia:
Coruscant's population would be sufficient to crew this entire
Imperial navy approximately 25,000 times over, not counting
carried troops, starfighter pilots, and the army.
There would probably be an equal number of Tie Sqaudrons as
there are capital ships in the Empire, but that's very rough.
Well.. That's it. Thoughts, comments, complaints, ect? I
believe that justice has finally been done to the true
accounting of the Imperial fleet through this post, though.
Commander Mrith'hele'arana
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Commander Thelea
population. Next, I also wanted to mention that someone said the
Death Star II, when finished, would have taken as much material
to build as 25,000,000 ISDs. The 322,000,000 lesser ships of the
Imperial Starfleet calculated here would most likely add up to
around the mass of 25,000,000 ISDs, putting them nicely within
the Imperial's construction capacity over a period of a year.
Adding in the larger ships, the DS I, the two Death Stars over
Coruscant (Assuming they're DS IIs), and you can actually keep
the amount of materials needed in a year for the DS II busy
building new ships through the history of the Empire.. Barely.
Add on some 160,000,000 support ships for that fleet, and around
400,000,000 non-hyperdrive capable System Patrol Craft, and
you'd be able to keep the Empire's manufacturing busy throughout
it's existance and still explain why the Empire needed ships
from the Old Republic to maintain full fleet strength.
Interesting, hmm?
Commander Thelea
ALL other space stations, along with all probes/mines, fighters,
support craft less than 100 meters in length, secret fleets and
prototypes for the Deep Core and Unknown Regions, the Prototype
Death Star, and complete, one year long remodelings of Hosk
station and Centrepoint station each. Why, you ask? The Empire
lasted around 20 years.. The stuff I mentioned earlier only
would have occupied it for 7 years. Add the things I've just
mentioned, and assume the same industrial capabilities are also
used for building all of the Imperial Army's equipment, and
special equipment for any other sections of the Empire's forces,
and you might just account for the other 13 years, though it
doesn't explain why the Empire would need those ex-Republic
ships, unless they weren't phased out until immedietly after the
Imperial Sourcebook was written, or they were all given
reconstructions that took the same amount of material as
building a new ship.
Therefore, not only are my figures acceptable based on the
construction abilities of the Empire, but any smaller figures
would seem rediculous; I doubt the Empire would slow down it's
Production when it could be building more ships; Even with the
Death Stars and the Army included, the Imperial Military would
have no more than half of Coruscant's population in total
serving individuals, at best, and all sources indicate the
Empire was not running low on funds, considering it's taxation
rates, clearly, the Empire had NO Reason to slow down it's
production at any time, and my figures would still fit even if
the Empire was expanding production capabilities the entire
time; saying all these additional things would take 13 years is
insanely generous of me. Quite simply, an Imperial of less than
300,000,000 capital starships smaller in size than ISDs is not
sanely possible, and that fleet size is COMPLETELY supported by
official sources, and the Dodonna calcs/BDZ irregularity.
Yes, none of my work is very precise, but it's close enough,
and the lack of precision is small enough in terms of the scale
(Hundreds of millions of capital combat starships) we're dealing
with that it's irrelevant.
lordsh...@my-deja.com
million. Let's also assume that 90% of these ships are tied up with
garrison duty.
2,000,000 ships - 90% in garrisons = 200,000 ships available
That's twenty times the most optimistic numbers for Federation fleet
strength.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lord Sander
This stuff makes me proud to be an Imperial :)
Lord Sander,
http://promotion.simplenet.com/
Glory to the Empire, and Emperor Palpatine!
Strowbridge
<SNIP!>
> Adding all of these figures up, we can come up with a total
> Hyperspace capable fleet for the Galactic Empire:
>
> 322,000,000 (322 Million) ships smaller than an ISD.
> 100,000 ISDs.
> 5,000-10,000 ships larger than ISDs.
Well, this fits within the figures calculated by others. What about TIEs
and other fighters?
C.S.Strowbridge
Robert Williams
Strowbridge wrote in message <38971610...@home.com>...
>Commander Thelea wrote:
>
><SNIP!>
>
>> Adding all of these figures up, we can come up with a total
>> Hyperspace capable fleet for the Galactic Empire:
>>
>> 322,000,000 (322 Million) ships smaller than an ISD.
>> 100,000 ISDs.
>> 5,000-10,000 ships larger than ISDs.
>
>and other fighters?
Hmmm......3 Billion?
Damn, they must run into problems trying to name over 300 million ships :)
Rob
>
>C.S.Strowbridge
Henning Rogge
wrote:
>><SNIP!>
>>
>>> Adding all of these figures up, we can come up with a total
>>> Hyperspace capable fleet for the Galactic Empire:
>>>
>>> 322,000,000 (322 Million) ships smaller than an ISD.
>>> 100,000 ISDs.
>>> 5,000-10,000 ships larger than ISDs.
>>
>>Well, this fits within the figures calculated by others. What about TIEs
>>and other fighters?
>
>Hmmm......3 Billion?
>
>Damn, they must run into problems trying to name over 300 million ships :)
Darth Vader:
"Captain, I'm in good mood. You are punished to write the battle
report by hand."
Captian:
"But my Lord, that's 100,000 ISDs... plus support crafts... Please
kill me instead of it..."
;-)
Henning Rogge ICQ 14862339
ubiqt...@my-deja.com
3,200 combat ships and 64 ISD's
I have just added it all up and the figure comes to around 14,026-41,183
ships, 96 of which are ISD's and around 600 support ships( this all
depends of number of ships in a line and the particular organisation of
the heavy and light squadrons).
I came to this figure by fully augumenting the order of battle i.e.
there are 8 lines instead of 4 lines in a squadron, 8 squadrons in a
systems force instead of 4 and so on.
The ISB also states there are THOUSANDS of Sector fleets at the Emperors
disposal.
The Death Star Technical Companion has a passage of a message from
Tarkin to the Emperor on the suggesting of Oversectors, he states that 3
sector fleets should be sufficient.
I personally think your overall figures are good but even so I think
they are still below what the actual figure should be. I like the idea
of the Imperial Starfleet as being the defensive part and the Imperial
navy being the offensive.
On the construction capabilities, it has always bothered me that people
think there are so few Executor class command ships(18 or something)
when the empire has the resources to build hundreds if not thousands
without even denting its finical situation.
Strowbridge
> >> Adding all of these figures up, we can come up with a total
> >> Hyperspace capable fleet for the Galactic Empire:
> >>
> >> 322,000,000 (322 Million) ships smaller than an ISD.
> >> 100,000 ISDs.
> >> 5,000-10,000 ships larger than ISDs.
> >
> >Well, this fits within the figures calculated by others. What about
> >TIEs and other fighters?
>
> Hmmm......3 Billion?
>
> Damn, they must run into problems trying to name over 300 million
> ships :)
Ever read 'Good Omens'
In it a witch hunter has been lying to an Angel about the number of
troops at his disposal in order to get more money (They are paid 9 cents
a week, salary set in the 1600's and never changed.) He has Mr. Smith,
Mr. Johnson, Mr. Franks, Mr. Smith (no relations) and then he starts
naming them after items in his Kitchen (Mr. Teapot, Mr. Cupboard) then
going farther down the list you have Smith, Smith Smythe and Ditto.
I used those four for my front line in Blood Bowl.
C.S.Strowbridge
Robert Williams
>
>Ever read 'Good Omens'
>
Can't say I have.
>In it a witch hunter has been lying to an Angel about the number of
>troops at his disposal in order to get more money (They are paid 9 cents
>a week, salary set in the 1600's and never changed.) He has Mr. Smith,
>Mr. Johnson, Mr. Franks, Mr. Smith (no relations) and then he starts
>naming them after items in his Kitchen (Mr. Teapot, Mr. Cupboard) then
>going farther down the list you have Smith, Smith Smythe and Ditto.
Hehe :)
>
>I used those four for my front line in Blood Bowl.
Blood, Bowl, I remember that game!
Rob
>
>C.S.Strowbridge
Strowbridge
>
> >Ever read 'Good Omens'
>
> Can't say I have.
By Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Excellent book.
Go here for a BRIEF description:
http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/gaimanpratchett.omens.shtml
> >In it a witch hunter has been lying to an Angel about the number of
> >troops at his disposal in order to get more money (They are paid 9
> >cents a week, salary set in the 1600's and never changed.) He has Mr.
> >Smith, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Franks, Mr. Smith (no relations) and then he
> >starts naming them after items in his Kitchen (Mr. Teapot, Mr.
> >Cupboard) then going farther down the list you have Smith, Smith
> >Smythe and Ditto.
>
> Hehe :)
>
> >I used those four for my front line in Blood Bowl.
>
> Blood, Bowl, I remember that game!
I played a team of dwarves named The Paisley Flowerarrangers. They had
names like Happy Fairydance and Smiley Sweetsmell. I figured with names
like that they'd have to be tough. I once took a team of Orcs down to 3
men in the first half. 5 Casualties and 3 KO's.
C.S.Strowbridge
PREDATOR
lordsh...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Hell, let's be REALLY pessimistic and assume "millions" means only 2
> million. Let's also assume that 90% of these ships are tied up with
> garrison duty.
>
> 2,000,000 ships - 90% in garrisons = 200,000 ships available
>
> That's twenty times the most optimistic numbers for Federation fleet
> strength.
But Star Trek is not only the Feds...
Andras Otto Schneider
My opinion on the Strike class is that they are a new tech, and less crew
intensive, replacement for Dreadnoughts, which are getting on in age. Also,
they would be good escorts/ recon for starfleet ISDs.
AOS
"Those blast points are too accurate for Imperial Stormtroopers. Only
Imperial Special Effects Technicians are so precise."
Ben Kenobi to Luke Skywalker in the redubbed SW:ANH
pjmc...@gate.net
Strowbridge <strow...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3897495E...@home.com...
> Robert Williams wrote:
> >
> > Strowbridge wrote in message <38971610...@home.com>...
>
> > >> Adding all of these figures up, we can come up with a total
> > >> Hyperspace capable fleet for the Galactic Empire:
> > >>
> > >> 322,000,000 (322 Million) ships smaller than an ISD.
> > >> 100,000 ISDs.
> > >> 5,000-10,000 ships larger than ISDs.
> > >
> > >Well, this fits within the figures calculated by others. What about
> > >TIEs and other fighters?
> >
> > Hmmm......3 Billion?
> >
> > Damn, they must run into problems trying to name over 300 million
> > ships :)
>
> Ever read 'Good Omens'
>
> In it a witch hunter has been lying to an Angel about the number of
> troops at his disposal in order to get more money (They are paid 9 cents
> a week, salary set in the 1600's and never changed.) He has Mr. Smith,
> Mr. Johnson, Mr. Franks, Mr. Smith (no relations) and then he starts
> naming them after items in his Kitchen (Mr. Teapot, Mr. Cupboard) then
> going farther down the list you have Smith, Smith Smythe and Ditto.
>
> I used those four for my front line in Blood Bowl.
It's important to note he is also lying to a Demon who is a co-sponsor of
the witch hunter organization.
And he is also lying to the British gov't.
--
Reality is what happens while I'm on my lunch brake.
lordsh...@my-deja.com
A task force twenty times the size of Starfleet, equipped with a drive
system exponentially faster than warp, and fielding a large number of
ships powerful enough to slag planets singlehandedly. Tell me, what
Trek power (or reasonable alliance of powers) is going to stand against
that?
Robert Williams
Strowbridge wrote in message <38977493...@home.com>...
>Robert Williams wrote:
>>
>> >Ever read 'Good Omens'
>>
>> Can't say I have.
>
>By Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Excellent book.
>
>Go here for a BRIEF description:
>
>http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/gaimanpratchett.omens.shtml
>
Yes, I have to read that book.
>> >In it a witch hunter has been lying to an Angel about the number of
>> >troops at his disposal in order to get more money (They are paid 9
>> >cents a week, salary set in the 1600's and never changed.) He has Mr.
>> >Smith, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Franks, Mr. Smith (no relations) and then he
>> >starts naming them after items in his Kitchen (Mr. Teapot, Mr.
>> >Cupboard) then going farther down the list you have Smith, Smith
>> >Smythe and Ditto.
>>
>> Hehe :)
>>
>> >I used those four for my front line in Blood Bowl.
>>
>> Blood, Bowl, I remember that game!
>
>I played a team of dwarves named The Paisley Flowerarrangers. They had
>names like Happy Fairydance and Smiley Sweetsmell. I figured with names
>like that they'd have to be tough. I once took a team of Orcs down to 3
>men in the first half. 5 Casualties and 3 KO's.
>
I played a few games of dungeonbowl(one of the expansions) ages and ages ago,
and had a human team for the 2nd edtion, but never got around to playing a
game(arse!), due to shifting my attention to epic.
Rob
>C.S.Strowbridge