Concerning teleportation (Beaming up) and existence
Cyric the Mad
I came up with this when they got Scotty out of the transporter buffer in
TNG while I was thinking about how they have the technology to "filter" out
diseases and such using the transporter.
When you get teleported, are you the same? Like, if you can be in this
goddamn electronic buffer for 70 years, how the hell would that work?
Do you 'die,' per say, and a clone of yourself is assembled?
If that's not enough, what about this...
What if, when our brain signals stop operating, our current state of mind
ceases to exist? Since we're made up of smaller life forms, I can almost
grasp this concept. Allow me to try to clarify this.
We have a thought, (This will be consiousness A) and we're constantly
thinking of something, until something interrupts our thoughts and we spend
a moment not thinking. We have a new thought (Consiousness B) and continue
thinking, with the memory of consiousness A.
HOWEVER
When consiousness A fades out our thoughts cease to exist, but the thought
was stored in our memory, for the perusal of B, C, D and so forth, tricking
us into thinking that we, as a single thinking organism, don't stop existing
thousands of times on a daily basis.
Now I must stop before this drives me nuts. This is a lot more exciting than
thinking about how far the universe expands, though.
If someone can say this better than me, please, say it, if you know what I
mean.
Evil Tyger
"Cyric the Mad" <fo...@NOSPAM.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:D8zP8.28059$Lf2.2...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
> Ok, this is something that's been driving me absolutely nuts.
>
> I came up with this when they got Scotty out of the transporter buffer in
> TNG while I was thinking about how they have the technology to "filter"
out
> diseases and such using the transporter.
>
> When you get teleported, are you the same? Like, if you can be in this
> goddamn electronic buffer for 70 years, how the hell would that work?
>
> Do you 'die,' per say, and a clone of yourself is assembled?
>
Well, I had heard this a few times (including from Cochrane in one of the
novels).
Personally, I don't think so. Since it uses the same energy that it turned
the body into to reconstruct it, it would be more like being revived after
being killed in any mundane way. You are technically dead during the
transit, but the damage is repaired at arrival.
Since this seems to be a requisit (living material can't be created by
replicator, which is basically the 2nd stage of a transporter), I would say
it is no more a killing & cloning than would be a stasis chamber.
PS. I wonder why nobody considered 'mirror universe' for the Riker incedent.
80 Knight
news:0EEP8.2092$Gf.87...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
Yes, now that you mention it, this puzzles me aswell. Seing how Thomas Riker
did turn out to me a Maquis sympatiser. (He stole the Defiant in DS9's
"Defiant". (Which by the way, I just watched a few hour ago.) He tried to
attack a secret Cardassian base. Actually it was an obsidian order base.
Eleas
I've been having similar thoughts, sparked, believe it or not, by
Transcend's inane perversion of Transhumanism. If I were to upload
myself, would "I" exist to myself? This is referring to the entity
sitting at this computer in Malmö. Would this I experience brain
death? Would it feel itself miraculously spring into being in digital
form?
Logically, I suppose the I would die, and my clone would live on. And
that scares me.
--
Björn
Archr
"The Ambivalent DMZ" <d...@NOSPAMadjective-army.com> wrote in message
news:9231888103F26C8H10N4O2@null...
> fenix...@yahoo.com (Eleas) wrote in
> news:b789f8d6.02061...@posting.google.com:
> it's still me after all - I had nothing to worry about" just as you die?
>
> --
> DMZ mhm33x4
>
> <this mind left intentionally blank>
Perhaps each transport has some sort of calming effect on the mind for that
exact reason. Sort of a tranquilizer effect. With that thought, it can go
along with some of the concepts in Operation Rescue: mind control through
better chemistry.
Wierd throught.
Archr
"80 Knight" <80kn...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:t5FP8.382821$t8_.1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
found him, and he had continued on a certain way of thinking that the
origional Will had been on, as Will had changed his mind about things at
that point, mainly Deanna.
Since they had 8 years worth of divergent experiences, it is no surprise
that the two would act different.
80 Knight
news:1uFP8.47439$3R2.1...@news1.west.cox.net...
I totally agree, but I never suspected that Thomas would turn into a Maquis
sympathiser.
--
"We must make sure that history never forget's the name Enterprise."
Capt. Jean-Luc Picard - TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise"
Cyric the Mad
"The Ambivalent DMZ" <d...@NOSPAMadjective-army.com> wrote in message
news:9231888103F26C8H10N4O2@null...
> fenix...@yahoo.com (Eleas) wrote in
> news:b789f8d6.02061...@posting.google.com:
> How about your clone would begin by thinking "Oh - that wasn't so bad, so
> it's still me after all - I had nothing to worry about" just as you die?
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. It's screwy.
Shogoki
What if you feel a horrible pain while your brain is being torn apart
and you can express it anymore, and you do it every time, but your
clones don't remember after?
Still, i wouldn't give my life just to get somewhere faster.
Pablo
"Shogoki" <eva_sho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ba6vgukak7fbdr4ed...@4ax.com...
This is an interesting philosophical question, and it is particularly
fascinating when you set it against Federation society. Nobody (outside of
McCoy) complains about transporters, despite the fact that it technically
involves death and cloning. Has the Federation quashed the philosophical
types in the Federation who would protest this? Or are all citizens
programmed to be docile and obedient? Looking at the emasculated and
sexless men featured in TNG, and the spartan lifestyles everyone seems to
lead without protest, I'm inclined to believe the latter.
The perfect communist society described in TNG is impossible, at least with
the current breed of human. But hypnopaedic conditioning here, a brain
chemistry modification there, and you have a happy and double-plus good
citizen of Oceania. When you put it all into perspective, the society in
TNG becomes very much like the one depicted in Aldous Huxley's _Brave New
World_. Sure, it's utopia, but a mindless grinning paradise is somehow just
as fearsome as a 1984 police state.
If we assume that what I'm saying is correct, this puts the Klingon and
Romulan hostility into a completely new light. They're not just fighting
because of the farcical "boiled-down" belief system that TNG has foisted on
them, they're fighting to stop the dissolution of their culture.
Paradox
"Cyric the Mad" <fo...@NOSPAM.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:D8zP8.28059$Lf2.2...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
my head hurts now.
Evil Tyger
> >
> Well, Thomas WAS alone for 8 years on that planet before the Enterprise
> found him, and he had continued on a certain way of thinking that the
> origional Will had been on, as Will had changed his mind about things at
> that point, mainly Deanna.
>
> Since they had 8 years worth of divergent experiences, it is no surprise
> that the two would act different.
>
They also had the assumption that the safety protocols that prevented that
transfer were still in effect, which probably impacted their thinking. (They
were still under the impression that the 'double' would swap universes as
well.)
However, consider what that planet might have been used for in one of the
mirror universes. A self contained colony, that could only be accessed
occasionally. Rura Pente anyone? Maybe a resistance cell safehouse? Hiding
from the law? Remember, Riker could have gone on instinct and still managed
to fool everyone into thinking he belonged in this reality. (As Kirk and
company did in the other one.) Unless someone would specifically check for
it (Kira, helloooo, you met your double) he could carry on the cherade
indefinately.
Setesh
up with a transporter-like device, used for travalling intersteller distances,
the process works like this, you sit your naked self down on a table, a weird
'liquid metel' effect covers you and you inhale it, the nice alien
'raptor'(who's voice sounds like dinobot from beastwars) transmits your data to
a recieve station, a complete quantom level dupicate of you is created at the
destination, minus your short term memory which is intentionally left blank,
the human operator (the aliens don't trust us with the whole gizmo yet) stands
finger over a red button, they wait for a confirmation signal your duplicate is
alive, well, and thinking. The human operator pushes the button to kill the
original you, and destroy your body, same basic technique as ST but slower. The
OL ep concerned the operator and a travaller, she gets in but the receive
station doesn't send the confirm, they pull her out before she suffocates. she
relates the horrible, traumatizing sensations the device gave her (hence no
short term recall) and refuses to 'traval', days later they find the recieve
station suffered a malfuntion, the travaler arrived but the confirm signal was
sent to the wrong send station, the 'raptor' insists the operator kill the
unlucky girl or humans will never get the transport tech, after much angsting,
and killing the goverment psych guy sent to evaluate his mental stability to
save her he locks her in an airlock and opens the outer door (the station is on
an airless moon), she dies nastilly, 6 months later she 'returns' from the
destination unaware that her original lived for several days after she 'left'
the operator now makes pre-chip data look emotional, the whole thing was
actually a setup by 'raptor' boy to see if the operator had the stones to kill
a person days later.
she where I've led, the oral implications are the same as haveing the two
Rikers, but without the 'raptors' there to leverage they didn't even think "oh
you shouldn't be here, we have to kill you"
On a even more interesting note: Tuvix
Tuvok and Neelix combined, they seem to have no problem 'killing' him to bring
the arguing duo back, I would have left him, he was far more interesting as
Tuvix