[PDD] AOTC ICS
Cmdrwilkens
proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
N.B. Some pieces of the Data Files have been removed because I think they
really don't matter all that much (such as Cargo Capacity and Consumable)
pg 3
"Energy Weapons
Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible "bolt"
is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed...The
light given off by visible bolts depletes the overall energy content of a
beam, limiting its range. Turbolasers gain a longer range by spinning the
energy beam, which reduces waste glow."
"Power Sources
Most starships use fusion systems that confine more-powerful hypermatter
annihilation cores. The interiors of the mighties war vessels are dominated
by huge reactors cores and ultra-dense fuel silos, which enable them to
perform massive planetary bombardments and sustain hours of thousand-G
accelerations before refuelling."
"Hyperdrive
Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to allow a jump
to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the ship."
Note: I guess this means I must officially abandon my old hyperjump theory
"Hyperwave transcievers require almost stellar-scale power, yet signals can
be blocked by nearby massive obstructions or by deflector shielding"
Note: I think this, mroe than anything, explains the ISD incident in TESB,
since deflectors can hinder communication devices then it is highly likely
that the ISD's shields were down intentionally
"Gravity Technology
Gravity-altering devices include repulsorlifts that allow unpowered
antigravity flotation, tractor-0beam projectors for remote applicaiton of
force, and acceleration compensators that prevent pulverization of starship
occupants during maneuvers. The gravitoactive constituents of these devices
are subnuclear knots of space-time made in enourmous, unmanned power
refineries encompassing black holes."
Note: They can not only build Death Stars but apparently Ring Worlds as
well.
"Shields
Conventional shield technologies use a range of force-field effects. Ray
shield, for example, deflect or break up energy beams, while particle
shields forcefully retard high-velocity projectiles. Normally, shield
intensities diminish gradually with distance from the generator or
projector. However, shields projected in an atmosphere tend to have a
defined outer surface. Such a boundary becomes super-hot when left still,
and mirage like affects are seen. Shields surrounding a moving airborne
vessel are less visible, but can impact aerodynamic performance."
pg 5
"Even in this sturdy vessel, however, a thorough home constituency tour
could last a lifetime in Padme's lightly populated Chommell Secotr, which
comprises 36 full-member worlds, more than 40,000 settled dependencies, and
300,000,000 barren stars. With more than 1,000 sectors, the galaxy's
deceptively fragile harmony depends on efficient dvision of authority within
the multi-tierd government, and upon the wisdom of its roving officials."
Manufacturer: Theed Palace Space Vessel Engineering Corps
Make: J-type custiom-built diplomatic barge
Dimensions: Length 39m;width 91m; dpeth 6.8m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 2,000 kph
Max. acceleration (in space): 2,500G
Power: main reactor peak 3e12 MW; peak shielding 6e12 MW
Hyperdrive: nubian 288 cores; S-6 generators (class 0.7; range 80,000 light
years fully fueled)
pg 6
"Wesell's ASN-121 droid is well-equipped for deadly missions. Its frontal
tool-chuck can wield a variety of implements and weapons, including a
harpoon gun, sniper blaster, gas dispenser, spy sensors, flamethrower, and
various drills and cuters. A compact fusion generator and modular
power-converter array mediate the rapidly varying energy demands of this
dynamic machine, while the systemic wiring provides a secondary
self-defensive electroshock capability."
pg 7
"Its repulsorlift [Zam's Airspeeder] units provide anti-grtavity support,
while other mechanisms gnerate radiation and electromagnetic fields that
move the craft by dragging upon the air."
pg 10
Data File
Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering, subsidiary of Kuat Drive Yards
(fighter); TransGalMeg Industries Inc. (hyperdrive ring)
Make: Delta-7 /Aethersprite/ light interceptor; Syliure-31 long-range
hyperdrive module
Dimensions: length 8m; width 3.92m; depth 1.44m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 12,000 kph
Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 5,000G
Hyperdrive: Class 1.0 (effective range 150,000 light-years)
Armament: 2 dual laser cannons (1 kiloton per shot max.)
"The starboard wing of Obi-Wan's craft is marked with the symbol f a disc
with eight spokes. This ancient icon dates to the Bendu monks' study of
numerology wherein the number nine (eight spokes joined to one disc)
signifies the beneficial presence of the Force in a unitary galaxy. After
the fall of the Galactic Republic 1,000 generations later, the Emperor will
personalize this symbol by defacing the icon with the removal of two
spokes."
pg12
Data File
Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering
Make: Firespray-class patrol and attack ship
Dimensions: length 21.5m; wingspan 21.3m; depth (excluding guns) 7.8m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 1,000 kph
Max acceleration (linear, in open space): 2500G
Hyperdrive: class 1.0
Armament: 2 blaster cannons (600 gigaloues per shot); 2 laser cannons (8e12
joules per shot); missile launcher (8e17 joules per shot); minelayer (5e19
joules per shot); other unknown weapons
"Originally stolen by Jango on the asteroid prison OOvo IV. /Slave I/ has
been extensively modified after a few harsh space battles. Jango has added
spartan crw quarters for long hunts since the original /Firespray/ was
furnished for shorter-term patrols. In addition, the police-regulation
prisoner cages have been converted into less-humane, coffin-like wall
cabinets to ensure control of captives.
pg 13
"/Slave I's/ tail blaster cannons are the only overt weaponry retained from
the standard /Firespray/. but they have been enhanced with finer aim and
variable power. Rapid-fire laser cannons concealed amidships have less
control than the tail guns, but deliver kiloton-scale energy bolts at a
greater rate. Fett has installed physical armaments as well: an adapted
naval minelayer deals nasty suprises to hasty pursuers, and a concelaed,
frontol double-rack of torpedoes fufils the role of a guided, heavy-assault
weapon."
pg 17
"The Trade Federation occupation significantly changed the Naboo defense
policy, with increased harmony between Naboo and Gungans resulting in
coordinated action plans to withstand any new siege. Gungan shield expertise
was combined with Naboo power generation to form a global network that
activates in minutes to repel any bombardment or hostile landing."
pg 18
Data File
Manufacturer: Hoersch-Kessel Drive Inc. (basic Core Ship); Baktoid Combat
Automata (droid-army contol core)
Model: /Lucrehulk/-class modular control core (LH-1740)
Dimensions: diameter 696m; depth (when landed, minus transmission mast) 914m
Max. acceleration: (linear, in open space) 300G
Power: reactor peak 3e24W; peak shield capacity 6e23W
Armament: 280 point-defense ligth laser cannons (8 kilotons per shot max.)
"Core-Ship design has changed little in the last century. In a typical
display of Neimoidian thrift, the spheres can serve a variety of craft: The
split-ring freighter-battleships of the Naboo blockade; larger, unarmored
container vessels and tankers; and newer warships of the post-Naboo period,
including cruisers with improved weapons placement and smaller, faster
destroyers that defend the fleets and chase down blockade runners.
pg 19
"In bygone ages, governments and private agencies shared such information
[interstellar data charts] publicly, but now the Trade Federation
aggressively protects the coordinates it owns. AS changes in astronomical
conditions can make routes unsafe, the Trade Federation is gaining a virtual
transport monopoly over patches of the galaxy. Now, only the Jedi and the
Office of the Supreme Chancellor can afford to maintain more comprehensive
charts."
pg 20
"A scent stimulator in the pilot's mask exploits the acute Geonosian sense
of smell to convey flight status feedback. The mask also sprays subverbal
pheremone signals so that air marshals and flight controllers can remotely
modify the pilot's mood and impart collective priorities."
Note: This has to be one of the more interesting flight control ideas and
makes use of the fact that many species are not visually oriented like us
humans.
pg 21
Data File
Manufacturer: Huppla Pasa Tisc Shipwrights Collective
Make: /Nantex/-class territorial defence starfighter
Dimensions (excluding cockpit bubble): length 9.8m; width 1.9m; dpeth 2.2m
Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 20,000 kph
Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 4,500G
Armamnet: 1 laser-cannon turret (1e13 joules per shot)
pg 22-23
"The new Galactic Army's arsenal was secretly built by a mighty corporation
that could have led the Seperatists if not for bloody treachery. Leading
Kuati executives were assasinated when Neimoidians took over the Trade
Federation at the notorious Eriadu Conference a decade earlier. The outraged
industrialists have since aligned with the Supereme Chancellery."
"Each /Acclamator/ coordinates its forces strategically. Orbital bombardment
with high-yioeld proton torpedoes and surgical turbolaser strikes hit enemy
fortifications when capture is not a priority. Armies entrenched deeply
underground may be subject to a last-resort "Base Delat Zero" fleet
bombardment. Such operation reduce the upper crust of a planet to molten
slage-a spectacle unseen in the Republic until the Clone Wars."
"Main reactor is hidden within hull terraces, unlike the bulbous ventral
protrusion of more powerful ships of Kuat's sectorial fleet, such as the
/Mandator/-class Star Dreandnaught and /Procurator/-class Star
Battlecruiser."
"Enemy fusion rockets barely score the super-dispersive
neutronium-impregnated hull cladding"
Data File
Manufacturer: Rothana Heavy Engineering (subsidiary of KDY)
Make: /Acclamator/-class tran-galactic military transport ship
Dimensions: length 752m; width 460m; depth (with landing gear) 200m; depth
(in flight) 183m
Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 3,500 G Note:*sweet*
Power: main reactor peak 2e23 W; peak shielding 7e22 W
Hyperdrive: class 0.6; range 250,000 light-years fully fueled
Passengers: 16,000 clone troopers and support personnel
Armament: 12 quad turbolaser turrets (200 gigatons per shot); 24 laser
cannons (6 megatons per shot); 4 missile/torpedo launch tubes
Note: The fact here is that 200 GT is most likely to be less than the yield
of some torpedo/missile weaponry.
pg 28
"AT-TEs [All-Terrain Tactical Enforcer] are effective at penetrating
powerful energy shields. Walker movement uses simple surface traction,
wheras high-velocity exhaust that drive a speeder or starship are stifled by
particle shields. Furthermore, flying craft can be damaged by energy
dischargees leaping from the ground at shield interfaces, but a walker's
neutral grounding provides invulnerability against this effect. AT-TEs are
also well shielded against electromagnetic pulse weapons and ion cannon
fire."
Data File:
Manufacturer: Rothana Heavy Engineering (local subsidiary of Kuat Drive
Yards)
Make: AT-TE (All Terrain Tactical Enforcer) assault walker
Dimensions (hull only): length 12.4m; width 5.32m; height 5.02m
Max. landpseed: 60 kph
Armament: 6 anti-personnel laser cannon turrets ( 4 front;2 back; 5e9 joules
per shot max); 1 heavy projectile cannon (variable yield)
pg 32 (just for shits and giggles)
"I would like to thank: Pete Briggs, Robert K. Brown, Elwyn Chow, Albert
Forge, Adam Gehrls, martyn Griffiths, Frank Gerratana, Michael Horbe, Ethan
Platten, Wayne Poe, Andrew Tse, Anthony Tully, Michael Wong, and Brian
Yound, who were prominent among the hundreds of people contributing to the
constructive debate about /Star Wars/ technicalities over the years,
resulting in the consesus of conceptual and physical foundations applied in
these pages..."
N.B. I just had to give ya'll a list of the names.
--
Lcpl Burnett, G.R.
USMCR
BridgeCo B 6th EngSptBN 4th FSSG
"Weapons do not penetrate armour based on force and pressure"
- IXJac(taken from SB.com and SD.net)
Alexander Moon
news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let
> me proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>
> N.B. Some pieces of the Data Files have been removed because I think
> they really don't matter all that much (such as Cargo Capacity and
> Consumable)
>
[SNIP]
Um...
WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*does happy dance*
Sir Nitram
Well, this will make life a little dull. Oh well. There's still 'fics and
STGOD's and analyzing the new movies.
--
SirNitram
ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius
The most powerful attack of them all...
DALTONDOKEN!
Brought to you by cheese.
Alexander Moon
news:20020423212555...@mb-fi.aol.com:
>>"Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in
>>news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
>>
>>> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let
>>> me proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>>>
>>> N.B. Some pieces of the Data Files have been removed because I think
>>> they really don't matter all that much (such as Cargo Capacity and
>>> Consumable)
>>>
>>
>>[SNIP]
>>
>>Um...
>>
>>WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>*does happy dance*
>>
>
> Well, this will make life a little dull. Oh well. There's still 'fics and
> STGOD's and analyzing the new movies.
Poor Mike Wong, now he has to redo his website again.
rob.wn5
"Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de...
> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let me
> proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>
>
bombardment
> with high-yioeld proton torpedoes and surgical turbolaser strikes hit
enemy
> fortifications when capture is not a priority. Armies entrenched deeply
> underground may be subject to a last-resort "Base Delat Zero" fleet
> bombardment. Such operation reduce the upper crust of a planet to molten
> slage-a spectacle unseen in the Republic until the Clone Wars."
>
Fleet bombardment? Ah well, at least it's talking about ships with vastly
smaller firepower than an ISD (these are transports after all). If a
Transport rates 200 GJoule Quad cannons then what does a Frontline warship
get 20 years later? :-)
Must get this book, guess I'll have to wait till May.
Rob Wilson
Phong Nguyen
news:bfox8.38535$ML.58...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com:
>
> "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de...
>> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let
>> me proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>>
>>
>> "Each /Acclamator/ coordinates its forces strategically. Orbital
> bombardment
>> with high-yioeld proton torpedoes and surgical turbolaser strikes hit
> enemy
>> fortifications when capture is not a priority. Armies entrenched
>> deeply underground may be subject to a last-resort "Base Delat Zero"
>> fleet bombardment. Such operation reduce the upper crust of a planet
>> to molten slage-a spectacle unseen in the Republic until the Clone
>> Wars."
>>
>
> Fleet bombardment? Ah well, at least it's talking about ships with
> vastly smaller firepower than an ISD (these are transports after all).
> If a Transport rates 200 GJoule Quad cannons then what does a
> Frontline warship get 20 years later? :-)
>
Not 200GJ, 200GT, wee bit of a difference :)
The /Acclamator/ looks like it's a hybrid between an LST and LPH (not an
LHD; I'd call a TF BB that).
--
Phong Nguyen
Email: phongn-at-northwestern-antispam-edu
AIM: JediPhong
WWW: http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~pxn296/
rob.wn5
"Phong Nguyen" <phong....@antispam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91F9D718C2ECD...@130.133.1.4...
> "rob.wn5" <rob...@ntlworld.com> wrote in
> news:bfox8.38535$ML.58...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com:
>
> >
> > "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de...
> >> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let
> >> me proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Each /Acclamator/ coordinates its forces strategically. Orbital
> > bombardment
> >> with high-yioeld proton torpedoes and surgical turbolaser strikes hit
> > enemy
> >> fortifications when capture is not a priority. Armies entrenched
> >> deeply underground may be subject to a last-resort "Base Delat Zero"
> >> fleet bombardment. Such operation reduce the upper crust of a planet
> >> to molten slage-a spectacle unseen in the Republic until the Clone
> >> Wars."
> >>
> >
> > Fleet bombardment? Ah well, at least it's talking about ships with
> > vastly smaller firepower than an ISD (these are transports after all).
> > If a Transport rates 200 GJoule Quad cannons then what does a
> > Frontline warship get 20 years later? :-)
> >
> Not 200GJ, 200GT, wee bit of a difference :)
Bah! You young'uns and your lahdida Scientific notation, you'll be saying
Watts and Joules are different next.
>
> The /Acclamator/ looks like it's a hybrid between an LST and LPH (not an
> LHD; I'd call a TF BB that).
Definitely a Landing craft that can fight for itself, but not even close to
a dedicated warship for fire power, wonder if a Victory will make it into
this film... Also it's says that BDZ's started in the Clone wars, and that's
the period of this film so much potential yeehaa in the coming months. :-)
Rob Wilson
Phong Nguyen
news:lDox8.38637$ML.58...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com:
>> The /Acclamator/ looks like it's a hybrid between an LST and LPH (not
>> an LHD; I'd call a TF BB that).
>
> Definitely a Landing craft that can fight for itself, but not even
> close to a dedicated warship for fire power, wonder if a Victory will
> make it into this film... Also it's says that BDZ's started in the
> Clone wars, and that's the period of this film so much potential
> yeehaa in the coming months. :-)
>
Too early for the Victories, but possibly in Ep3. Saxton does note that
Rendili Stardrive has stepped up their corporate espionage against KDY - I
love how Ep2 is tying in so well with the original trilogy.
Of course, not a true warship, though it did mention Kuat's sector-defense
battlecruisers and battleships in passing. 12 quad lasers are good for
punching through an enemy wall, but not for true, sustained combat (that's
when you get yer 64 HTLs on an ISD :) )
Cmdrwilkens
news:Xns91F9DC0CFB877m...@130.133.1.4...
Not really, all he has to do is post a link to a 1024x768 .gif of the Data
File on the /Acclamator/.
Alexander Moon
news:aa5aom$85slh$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
> "Alexander Moon" <moonm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91F9DC0CFB877m...@130.133.1.4...
>> nitramt...@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) wrote in
>> news:20020423212555...@mb-fi.aol.com:
>>
>> >>"Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in
>> >>news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
>> >>
>> >>> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside
>> >>> let me proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>> >>>
>> >>> N.B. Some pieces of the Data Files have been removed because I
>> >>> think they really don't matter all that much (such as Cargo
>> >>> Capacity and Consumable)
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>[SNIP]
>> >>
>> >>Um...
>> >>
>> >>WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >>
>> >>*does happy dance*
>> >>
>> >
>> > Well, this will make life a little dull. Oh well. There's still
>> > 'fics
> and
>> > STGOD's and analyzing the new movies.
>>
>> Poor Mike Wong, now he has to redo his website again.
>
> Not really, all he has to do is post a link to a 1024x768 .gif of the
> Data File on the /Acclamator/.
"Due to the information contained in the Episode II ICS, Stardestroyer.net
will no longer be updated because, lets face it: Star Trek is fucked."
Cmdrwilkens
That would be a funny home page.
Eric
<burn...@comcast.net> wrote:
Data File
>Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering
>Make: Firespray-class patrol and attack ship
>Dimensions: length 21.5m; wingspan 21.3m; depth (excluding guns) 7.8m
>Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 1,000 kph
>Max acceleration (linear, in open space): 2500G
>Hyperdrive: class 1.0
>Armament: 2 blaster cannons (600 gigaloues per shot); 2 laser cannons (8e12
>joules per shot); missile launcher (8e17 joules per shot); minelayer (5e19
>joules per shot); other unknown weapons
>
8e17 joules per missile?
191.2 megaton proton torps.
One salvo of torps from the Slave 1, and damn near any Federation
ship's going down.
Man, didn't we have a discussion that went eerily along these lines
back when the original ICS came out? Something about one of us making
one...
Eric
"Sufficiently advanced technology is often indistinguishable
from magic." Clarke's Third Law
aa #197
Remove the obvious to mail me
Alexander Moon
news:aa5g49$7hhv0$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
It would. But hey, there are plenty of other Sci-Fi universes for the
Imperials to conquer.
His Divine Shadow
"rob.wn5" <rob...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bfox8.38535$ML.58...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
> "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de...
> > Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let me
> > proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
> >
> >
> > "Each /Acclamator/ coordinates its forces strategically. Orbital
> bombardment
> > with high-yioeld proton torpedoes and surgical turbolaser strikes hit
> enemy
> > fortifications when capture is not a priority. Armies entrenched deeply
> > underground may be subject to a last-resort "Base Delat Zero" fleet
> > bombardment. Such operation reduce the upper crust of a planet to molten
> > slage-a spectacle unseen in the Republic until the Clone Wars."
> >
>
> Fleet bombardment? Ah well, at least it's talking about ships with vastly
> smaller firepower than an ISD (these are transports after all). If a
> Transport rates 200 GJoule Quad cannons then what does a Frontline warship
> get 20 years later? :-)
>
> Must get this book, guess I'll have to wait till May.
You and me both, I'll get the Visual Dictionary while I'm at it too though.
His Divine Shadow
"Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:aa4qgn$7tmkv$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de...
> proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>
> N.B. Some pieces of the Data Files have been removed because I think they
> really don't matter all that much (such as Cargo Capacity and Consumable)
Thank you, I'll begin adding those to my web site now.
CAPTAIN MAN1AC
comparable size to ISD HTL's?.
If they are that does actually fit with a lot of stuff, e.g the Nar Shaddaa BDZ
by 3 dreadnoughts and 4 bulkcruisers that was planned to last 15 minutes (72-95
billion inhabitants to wipe out, multi Km structures/planet wide "vertical
city" to be razed).
It would also be some-what in-line with expectation based upon the difference
in size between ISD LTL's and HTL's:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Cannons/battery.jpg
and
http://www.starshipbuilder.com/star_destroyers/star_destroyer17.JPG
The latter are ~1.2-1.3m, 14m long barrels, the former are smaller than the DS
'light guns' which have barrels (25mm, 2.5m) somewhere around 1/14,000th the
volume of the Heavies.
2000TJ for the asteroid (40m), 28 millionTJ for a Heavy gun.
The asteroid bolts are probably low power, some of the bolts in ROJ are
visually much larger (up to 450 times) and as indicated by ESB the "maximum
firepower" AT-AT bolts were visible much larger than previous bolts.
Iceberg
wrote:
Next stop: The Galactic Empire vs. the Zentraedi. With a brief
pitstop to steamroll the Honorverse.
-- Ice
I think the Catholic Church is rather cool. What other religion has
jealous naysayers accusing it of having super secret Papal ninjas?
Lord Edam de Fromage
burn...@comcast.net says...
> "Energy Weapons
> Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible "bolt"
> is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed...
And yet, the real damage doesn't start happening until the visible bit
strikes. So, either
*the tracer is sent first and the gun stays on target for however long
it takes the tracer to get there before firing the second part of the
shot which is invisible, travels at c, and does most of the damage
*the tracer carries most of the damaging effects
*the quote isn't giving the whole story, the visible portion carries the
damage of the bolt and the invisible lightspeed effects are simply
radiative heat transfer.
I still say go with the third on this, because I see no other way of
rationalising the stated abilities with the demonstrated abilities of
no-damage-till-bolt-hits.
> "Hyperdrive
> Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to allow a jump
> to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the ship."
Which (coupled with the low accelerations & top speeds) would put an end
to the ideas about 3ISDs at relatavistic speeds hitting an SSD, and
would explain why the Zahn trilogy refer to entering hyperspace as
"pseudomotion" (aka false motion - not real movement)
> "Hyperwave transcievers require almost stellar-scale power, yet signals can
> be blocked by nearby massive obstructions or by deflector shielding"
>
> Note: I think this, mroe than anything, explains the ISD incident in TESB,
> since deflectors can hinder communication devices then it is highly likely
> that the ISD's shields were down intentionally
I disagree. From previous official sources hyperwave transceivers are
the long-range thingys, the instant communication across the galaxy.
Shorter range comms are handled by other systems, which are not
necessarily blocked (unless there's more to this quote than you've
included)
> Data File
> Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering, subsidiary of Kuat Drive Yards
> (fighter); TransGalMeg Industries Inc. (hyperdrive ring)
> Make: Delta-7 /Aethersprite/ light interceptor; Syliure-31 long-range
> hyperdrive module
> Dimensions: length 8m; width 3.92m; depth 1.44m
> Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 12,000 kph
> Max. acceleration (linear, in open space): 5,000G
> Hyperdrive: Class 1.0 (effective range 150,000 light-years)
> Armament: 2 dual laser cannons (1 kiloton per shot max.)
Justification for BTM 5TJ X-wing laser cannons.
> Data File
> Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering
> Make: Firespray-class patrol and attack ship
> Dimensions: length 21.5m; wingspan 21.3m; depth (excluding guns) 7.8m
> Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 1,000 kph
> Max acceleration (linear, in open space): 2500G
> Hyperdrive: class 1.0
> Armament: 2 blaster cannons (600 gigaloues per shot); 2 laser cannons (8e12
> joules per shot); missile launcher (8e17 joules per shot);
Wasn't it missiles that took out the asteroid in one of the trailers?
You'd need mines heavier than the missiles so that one mine will
actually do sever damage, whereas with missiles you can keep firing
until they die.
This seems to be for the heavily upgraded Slave I rather than general
firesprays. Nice to see they've completely changed the background of
Slave I from the EU. Couldn't they just give it a different name? Or is
it a different Slave I from Boba's?
> "The Trade Federation occupation significantly changed the Naboo defense
> policy, with increased harmony between Naboo and Gungans resulting in
> coordinated action plans to withstand any new siege. Gungan shield expertise
> was combined with Naboo power generation to form a global network that
> activates in minutes to repel any bombardment or hostile landing."
Will be nice to see that in action if we get a chance.
> Data File
> Manufacturer: Hoersch-Kessel Drive Inc. (basic Core Ship); Baktoid Combat
> Automata (droid-army contol core)
> Model: /Lucrehulk/-class modular control core (LH-1740)
> Dimensions: diameter 696m; depth (when landed, minus transmission mast) 914m
> Max. acceleration: (linear, in open space) 300G
> Power: reactor peak 3e24W; peak shield capacity 6e23W
Vs TLs or torpedoes?
> Armament: 280 point-defense ligth laser cannons (8 kilotons per shot max.)
So, it can shoot all day and not harm itself. Those must be more for
point defense. Funnily enough, the peak shield capacity is very close to
the BTM indicators of planetary weapon yields, and since this is a ship
designed for planetary attack that would be kinda expected.
> "In bygone ages, governments and private agencies shared such information
> [interstellar data charts] publicly, but now the Trade Federation
> aggressively protects the coordinates it owns. AS changes in astronomical
> conditions can make routes unsafe, the Trade Federation is gaining a virtual
> transport monopoly over patches of the galaxy. Now, only the Jedi and the
> Office of the Supreme Chancellor can afford to maintain more comprehensive
> charts."
So it can't be that easy to scan for safe hyperspace routes.
> pg 20
>
> "A scent stimulator in the pilot's mask exploits the acute Geonosian sense
> of smell to convey flight status feedback.
:sniff:
Yes, we're about to crash.
> "Each /Acclamator/ coordinates its forces strategically. Orbital bombardment
> with high-yioeld proton torpedoes and surgical turbolaser strikes hit enemy
> fortifications when capture is not a priority. Armies entrenched deeply
> underground may be subject to a last-resort "Base Delat Zero" fleet
> bombardment. Such operation reduce the upper crust of a planet to molten
> slage-a spectacle unseen in the Republic until the Clone Wars."
similar vagueness to what we already know.
> "Enemy fusion rockets barely score the super-dispersive
> neutronium-impregnated hull cladding"
but is it real neutronium? ;)
> Data File
> Manufacturer: Rothana Heavy Engineering (subsidiary of KDY)
> Make: /Acclamator/-class tran-galactic military transport ship
this does not exist. It's all a figment of your imagination
> Note: The fact here is that 200 GT is most likely to be less than the yield
> of some torpedo/missile weaponry.
Or torpedos are used for precision kills/subsurface work whilst the
200GT shots are your more wide-spared destruction.
> Data File:
> Manufacturer: Rothana Heavy Engineering (local subsidiary of Kuat Drive
> Yards)
> Make: AT-TE (All Terrain Tactical Enforcer) assault walker
> Dimensions (hull only): length 12.4m; width 5.32m; height 5.02m
> Max. landpseed: 60 kph
> Armament: 6 anti-personnel laser cannon turrets ( 4 front;2 back; 5e9 joules
> per shot max); 1 heavy projectile cannon (variable yield)
confirming anti-personnel weaponry yields from BTM.
I hate Amazon. I pre-ordered all this stuff ages ago, and it still
hasn't turned up.
--
Lord Edam de Fromage
www.trek-wars.info
Physicians say they can't account for all the enrgy and mass that are
beeing sucked into a black hole - /. post
His Divine Shadow
> > Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible
"bolt"
> > is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than
lightspeed...
Must say I didn't like that one either, I always liked the plasma cannon
theory.
Though it gives an OK range
Sir Nitram
At last. Worthy opponents.
Kazuaki Shimazaki
news:MPG.1730abd11...@news.cis.dfn.de...
<snip>
There are two objectives to that relativistic argument. There's the accel
part and there is the shield part. The sublight accel part may be a loss
(though maybe I'll find a way around it), but it hurts only a few people's
dreams (like me and Wilkens), who really wanted the extra accel (we both
seem to want it, only I want it purely from the engines and Wilkens seemed
to want an AMRE-like mount). The shield part is replaced by something firmer
and less debatable - AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT!
For the plasma versus laser thing, if worse comes to worse, use the canon
contradiction trick.
<snip>
> I disagree. From previous official sources hyperwave transceivers are
> the long-range thingys, the instant communication across the galaxy.
> Shorter range comms are handled by other systems, which are not
> necessarily blocked (unless there's more to this quote than you've
> included)
OK, there are three main types of communications I know of. Hyperwave,
subspace and standard EM (I forgot whether they really have standard EM, but
it is a reasonable supposition they'll have something we do, especially
since they need to communicate somehow while the shields are up in close
ranges and they have radar and laser). We now know hyperwave is blocked by
shielding, and the Zahn trilogy thinks subspace is out too when the shields
go up. That leaves EM. They were conducting real time conversation at the
time, and unless the widely dispersed fleet looking for the MF is all within
a 150,000 to 300,000km radius of the Executor, real time conversation using
the limited propagation rate of EM systems is not awfully practical.
<snip>
> Vs TLs or torpedoes?
Since it doesn't say, presumably capable versus both.
<snip>
> So it can't be that easy to scan for safe hyperspace routes.
In vast space, that could be true at high speed. But it couldn't be
excessively difficult. After all, they did manage to plot out the routes the
first time.
<snip>
> similar vagueness to what we already know.
Face it, when combined with the clear-cut numbers, this vagueness quickly
becomes clear.
> > "Enemy fusion rockets barely score the super-dispersive
> > neutronium-impregnated hull cladding"
>
> but is it real neutronium? ;)
As long as it is the same as STN... :-)
> > Data File
> > Manufacturer: Rothana Heavy Engineering (subsidiary of KDY)
> > Make: /Acclamator/-class tran-galactic military transport ship
>
>
> this does not exist. It's all a figment of your imagination
Stop dreaming. It already happened. We almost wish it didn't happen, so we
can continue debating :-)
CMacLeod666
When I tried doing a scaling on them I came out to between 6 and 10
meters. Offhand they seem to be MTL turrets, not heavy.
Alexander Moon
news:125dcugr4hgdpr6do...@4ax.com:
As this day has seen the end of Star Trek, so soon shall it see the end of
all who oppose us.
CAPTAIN MAN1AC
>meters. Offhand they seem to be MTL turrets, not heavy.
Heheh..
Ouch! :-0
Cmdrwilkens
news:MPG.1730abd11...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> > "Hyperdrive
> > Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to allow a
jump
> > to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the
ship."
>
> Which (coupled with the low accelerations & top speeds) would put an end
> to the ideas about 3ISDs at relatavistic speeds hitting an SSD, and
> would explain why the Zahn trilogy refer to entering hyperspace as
> "pseudomotion" (aka false motion - not real movement)
This quote says absolutely nothing about velocity in realspace relative to
the jump to hyperspace. beyond this, and while Dr Saxton is probably the
greatest authority out there right now, you can NOT re-write canon material.
The RotJ novelisation specifically states that Lando and the Rebel fleet
reached parity with light-speed before crossing the barrier and you are not
gonna find evidence to the contrary (not without engaging in circular
logic).
Basically what I am saying is that the above only indicates how the
transition is made from sub-light to trans-light which WOULD result in a
change in energy state even without acceleration. I think you are forgetting
the simple fact that changing from subluminal to supraluminal would change
your mass/energy however Dr. Saxton appears to be explaining away why we
don't see the wierd time-travel-like effects that his site dealt with. He is
explaining away what seemed, to him as an astrophysicist, a paradox in
result and prediction NOT making a statement on what happens prioir to, as
Major Soran put it, the opening of the "magic door."
Cmdrwilkens
news:GQsx8.149$Jk5....@read2.inet.fi...
If you want I could just send you a scan of the /Acclamator/ page so you can
blow it up to poster proportions and smile at it in the morning.
Cmdrwilkens
news:20020424045806...@mb-bk.aol.com...
> Just how big are those quad batteries?, I mean are they smaller than, or
of
> comparable size to ISD HTL's?.
They are definately smaller, just looking at the picutre I got the impresion
that they were slightly scaled up versions of the quad bnattereis we saw on
the TradeFed batleship/cargoship in TPM. My guess would be these are a
turbo- variant of those batteries (since turbo has now morphed into meaning
greater range via bolt spinning rather than greater power period). Thus I
expect these weapons would be roughly on par (within 50% or so) of the guns
on the TradeFed Battleship/cargoship.
Cmdrwilkens
Truth be told I'd still give the Culture an edge on us but that's about the
only one I can think of right now.
Sea Skimmer
> proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
>
> pg 17
>
> "The Trade Federation occupation significantly changed the Naboo defense
> policy, with increased harmony between Naboo and Gungans resulting in
> coordinated action plans to withstand any new siege. Gungan shield expertise
> was combined with Naboo power generation to form a global network that
> activates in minutes to repel any bombardment or hostile landing."
Full Plantary shielding on a world of just 600 million! So much for
those claims of only a few core worlds having them..
FTeik
>only one I can think of right now.
>
I may have asked this before, but where can i get some information about this
"Culture"?
Another Sci-Fi-Universe i could think of is the German Perry-Rhodan-Series.
Some links are:
http://www.nrw.co.uk/perry-de/
FTeik
of Kumauri- and Cal-Class-Warships?
I think this was stated in Chrackens Thread Dossier.
Alexander Moon
news:aa6qcg$7sfbg$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
> "Alexander Moon" <moonm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91FA72E014634m...@130.133.1.4...
>> Iceberg <ice...@crius.net> wrote in
>> news:125dcugr4hgdpr6do...@4ax.com:
>>
>> > On 24 Apr 2002 06:02:01 GMT, Alexander Moon <moonm...@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in
>> >>news:aa5g49$7hhv0$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
[SNIP]
>> >>
>> >>It would. But hey, there are plenty of other Sci-Fi universes for
>> >>the Imperials to conquer.
>> >
>> > Next stop: The Galactic Empire vs. the Zentraedi. With a brief
>> > pitstop to steamroll the Honorverse.
>>
>> As this day has seen the end of Star Trek, so soon shall it see the
>> end of all who oppose us.
>
> Truth be told I'd still give the Culture an edge on us but that's
> about the only one I can think of right now.
>
Yeah, isn't it cool? :D
Alexander Moon
news:20020424154911...@mb-ma.aol.com:
>>Truth be told I'd still give the Culture an edge on us but that's
>>about the only one I can think of right now.
>>
>
> I may have asked this before, but where can i get some information
> about this "Culture"?
Look up 'Iain M. Banks' and 'Culture' on google. That should provide you
with all the info you need.
Kynes
>If you want I could just send you a scan of the /Acclamator/ page so you can
>blow it up to poster proportions and smile at it in the morning.
Actually, I'd like that. :)
--
-LK!
[ ky...@choam.org ] [ ICQ: 795238 ] [ AIM: Kynes23 ]
[ http://galactec.com/kynes/ -- Personal Website ]
"I don't think I could ever be a game designer. Eventually, in a fit
of frustration, I would probably release a game called 'You People
Don't Know What the Hell You Want So Play This and Like It: The
Precursor Legacy'."
-- Drew Cosner
Phong Nguyen
news:h3hccucp4rfocit3s...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:21:29 -0400, "Cmdrwilkens"
> <burn...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Data File
>>Manufacturer: Kuat Systems Engineering
>>Make: Firespray-class patrol and attack ship
>>Dimensions: length 21.5m; wingspan 21.3m; depth (excluding guns) 7.8m
>>Max. speed (in standard atmosphere): 1,000 kph
>>Max acceleration (linear, in open space): 2500G
>>Hyperdrive: class 1.0
>>Armament: 2 blaster cannons (600 gigaloues per shot); 2 laser cannons
>>(8e12 joules per shot); missile launcher (8e17 joules per shot);
>>minelayer (5e19 joules per shot); other unknown weapons
>>
>
> 8e17 joules per missile?
> 191.2 megaton proton torps.
>
> One salvo of torps from the Slave 1, and damn near any Federation
> ship's going down.
>
> Man, didn't we have a discussion that went eerily along these lines
> back when the original ICS came out? Something about one of us making
> one...
>
Back when the Classic Trilogy's ICS was released, there was talk about Dr.
Saxton, Mike Wong, Robert Brown, Brian Young and the rest of the gang
getting together and making something like that.
Our prediction has come true, but what I'd really like is something like
Jane's for SW.
--
Phong Nguyen
Email: phongn-at-northwestern-antispam-edu
AIM: JediPhong
WWW: http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~pxn296/
Andras Otto Schneider
of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
AOS
"Those blast points are far too accurate
for Imperial Stormtroopers. Only Imperial
Special Effects Technicians are so precise"
Phong Nguyen
71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
> Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on inside
> of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
>
Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional blast-
effect nukes and more.
Sir Nitram
>71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
>
>> Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on inside
>> of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
>>
>Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional blast-
>effect nukes and more.
>
I feel all tingly all of a sudden.
Phong Nguyen
>>It would. But hey, there are plenty of other Sci-Fi universes for the
>>Imperials to conquer.
>
> Next stop: The Galactic Empire vs. the Zentraedi. With a brief
> pitstop to steamroll the Honorverse.
>
Tactically, Honorverse has the edge, if only because SW can't stop the
impeller wedge. Strategically, they're screwed (though have always been).
Phong Nguyen
>>Andras Otto Schneider <andra...@olg.com> wrote in news:andrasotto-
>>71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
>>
>>> Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on
>>> inside of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
>>>
>>Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional
>>blast- effect nukes and more.
>>
>
> I feel all tingly all of a sudden.
>
That's because I've just airbusted a neutron bomb above you.
Wayne Poe
"Alexander Moon" <moonm...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>>> "Due to the information contained in the Episode II ICS,
> >>>> Stardestroyer.net will no longer be updated because, lets face it:
> >>>> Star Trek is fucked."
> >>> That would be a funny home page
> >>It would. But hey, there are plenty of other Sci-Fi universes for the
> >>Imperials to conquer.
> > Next stop: The Galactic Empire vs. the Zentraedi. With a brief
> > pitstop to steamroll the Honorverse.
> As this day has seen the end of Star Trek, so soon shall it see the end of
> all who oppose us.
G. Kennedy: "But...what's all the commotion? Lasers can't even get through
starfleet's navigational shields....?"
Wayne Poe
"Lord Edam de Fromage" <$mike$@themightygibbon.co.uk> wrote
> > "Hyperwave transcievers require almost stellar-scale power, yet signals
can
> > be blocked by nearby massive obstructions or by deflector shielding"
> >
> > Note: I think this, mroe than anything, explains the ISD incident in
TESB,
> > since deflectors can hinder communication devices then it is highly
likely
> > that the ISD's shields were down intentionally
>
> I disagree. From previous official sources hyperwave transceivers are
> the long-range thingys, the instant communication across the galaxy.
> Shorter range comms are handled by other systems, which are not
> necessarily blocked (unless there's more to this quote than you've
> included)
Then you'll have to explain how the Executor received the Emperor's
communique' from Coruscant with its shields allegedly up.
Shogoki
Well, SW is capitalist, so there probably are several types of
planetary shields, and it may be cheaper to use tech you already have
than buying the whole package from some massive corporation.
Sir Nitram
I've a picture of him saying that, the background being people fleeing in
terror and panic, carrying suitcases and loved ones, as an AT-TE stomps
forward.
BlueExcalibur
> Andras Otto Schneider <andra...@olg.com> wrote in news:andrasotto-
> 71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
>
>
>>Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on inside
>>of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
>>
>
> Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional blast-
> effect nukes and more.
>
>
>
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!
Cmdrwilkens
I see that and all I can think of is John "Mr Scientology" Travolta in
"Broken Arrow."
Alexander Moon
97732.news.dfncis.de:
> "Alexander Moon" <moonm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91FAA5A6238FEm...@130.133.1.4...
>> "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:aa6qcg$7sfbg$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
>>
>> > "Alexander Moon" <moonm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:Xns91FA72E014634m...@130.133.1.4...
>> >> Iceberg <ice...@crius.net> wrote in
>> >> news:125dcugr4hgdpr6do...@4ax.com:
>> >>
>> >> > On 24 Apr 2002 06:02:01 GMT, Alexander Moon <moonm...@yahoo.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>"Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in
>> >> >>news:aa5g49$7hhv0$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de:
>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>It would. But hey, there are plenty of other Sci-Fi universes for
>> >> >>the Imperials to conquer.
>> >> >
>> >> > Next stop: The Galactic Empire vs. the Zentraedi. With a brief
>> >> > pitstop to steamroll the Honorverse.
>> >>
>> >> As this day has seen the end of Star Trek, so soon shall it see the
>> >> end of all who oppose us.
>> >
>> > Truth be told I'd still give the Culture an edge on us but that's
>> > about the only one I can think of right now.
>> >
>>
>> Yeah, isn't it cool? :D
>>
>
> I see that and all I can think of is John "Mr Scientology" Travolta in
> "Broken Arrow."
>
Ewwww. Mr. Revolta?
Cmdrwilkens
news:20020424155638...@mb-ma.aol.com...
That would be the technology for standard planetary shields but using it
would also mean that you'd have to pay a huge corporate liscense and shell
out to adapt your power systems to yours. However if you've got abundant
natural energy (Naboo plasma) and some interesting shielding technology as a
base (Gungan shields) then its probably cheeper to home-grow your own
shielding system.
Cmdrwilkens
news:Xns91FAC590F78Cp...@130.133.1.4...
> nitramt...@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) wrote in
> news:20020424195520...@mb-fp.aol.com:
>
> >>Andras Otto Schneider <andra...@olg.com> wrote in news:andrasotto-
> >>71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
> >>
> >>> Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on
> >>> inside of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
> >>>
> >>Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional
> >>blast- effect nukes and more.
> >>
> >
> > I feel all tingly all of a sudden.
> >
> That's because I've just airbusted a neutron bomb above you.
>
Cobalt encased or not?
Phong Nguyen
97732.news.dfncis.de:
> "Phong Nguyen" <phong....@antispam.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91FAC590F78Cp...@130.133.1.4...
>> nitramt...@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) wrote in
>> news:20020424195520...@mb-fp.aol.com:
>>
>> >>Andras Otto Schneider <andra...@olg.com> wrote in news:andrasotto-
>> >>71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
>> >>
>> >>> Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on
>> >>> inside of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
>> >>>
>> >>Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional
>> >>blast- effect nukes and more.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I feel all tingly all of a sudden.
>> >
>> That's because I've just airbusted a neutron bomb above you.
>>
>
> Cobalt encased or not?
>
Wouldn't that be contradictory to the whole point of an enhanced-radiation
weapon?
Cmdrwilkens
> "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in news:aa80sf$8l48v$1@ID-
> 97732.news.dfncis.de:
>
> > "Phong Nguyen" <phong....@antispam.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns91FAC590F78Cp...@130.133.1.4...
> >> nitramt...@aol.comAntiSpam (Sir Nitram) wrote in
> >> news:20020424195520...@mb-fp.aol.com:
> >>
> >> >>Andras Otto Schneider <andra...@olg.com> wrote in news:andrasotto-
> >> >>71C6FC.194...@news.cis.dfn.de:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Did you notice the 100kt missiles focused into a 2 degree cone on
> >> >>> inside of the second page of the fold-out regarding the Drop ship?
> >> >>>
> >> >>Yep. They also can fire Enhanced Radiation Weapons, conventional
> >> >>blast- effect nukes and more.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I feel all tingly all of a sudden.
> >> >
> >> That's because I've just airbusted a neutron bomb above you.
> >>
> >
> > Cobalt encased or not?
> >
> Wouldn't that be contradictory to the whole point of an enhanced-radiation
> weapon?
>
Exactly, it'd be like dehydrated water...ther world's best tasting
all-natural drink.
Kazuaki Shimazaki
<snip>
> This quote says absolutely nothing about velocity in realspace relative to
> the jump to hyperspace. beyond this, and while Dr Saxton is probably the
> greatest authority out there right now, you can NOT re-write canon
material.
> The RotJ novelisation specifically states that Lando and the Rebel fleet
> reached parity with light-speed before crossing the barrier and you are
not
> gonna find evidence to the contrary (not without engaging in circular
> logic).
>
> Basically what I am saying is that the above only indicates how the
> transition is made from sub-light to trans-light which WOULD result in a
> change in energy state even without acceleration. I think you are
forgetting
> the simple fact that changing from subluminal to supraluminal would change
> your mass/energy however Dr. Saxton appears to be explaining away why we
> don't see the wierd time-travel-like effects that his site dealt with. He
is
> explaining away what seemed, to him as an astrophysicist, a paradox in
> result and prediction NOT making a statement on what happens prioir to, as
> Major Soran put it, the opening of the "magic door."
I said someone would find a way around it, and someone immediately figured
out there may be no blockage at all. I must be prophetic :-)
FTeik
>> about the only one I can think of right now.
>>
Did some (re)search about "Culture" and Iain Banks and found this at:
http://homepage.compuserve.de/Mistral/artikel/culture.html
Not very impressive if you want to go to war.
FTeik
>would also mean that you'd have to pay a huge corporate liscense and shell
>out to adapt your power systems to yours. However if you've got abundant
>natural energy (Naboo plasma) and some interesting shielding technology as a
>base (Gungan shields) then its probably cheeper to home-grow your own
>shielding system.
>
So there existed planetary shields ten-thousand years ago? (I wasn´t able to
find the quote).
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> There are two objectives to that relativistic argument. There's the accel
> part and there is the shield part. The sublight accel part may be a loss
> (though maybe I'll find a way around it), but it hurts only a few people's
> dreams (like me and Wilkens), who really wanted the extra accel (we both
> seem to want it, only I want it purely from the engines and Wilkens seemed
> to want an AMRE-like mount). The shield part is replaced by something firmer
> and less debatable - AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT!
There are no official statements regarding the ISD or SSD. Only for a
ship designed for plaentary assault - a ship that has to regularly go
against planetary defenses that really do want to kill it, and take out
planetary shields in a relatively short time period.
> OK, there are three main types of communications I know of. Hyperwave,
> subspace and standard EM (I forgot whether they really have standard EM,
Used in sensors, but the communications part(called radionics) seems to
be rare
> We now know hyperwave is blocked by
> shielding, and the Zahn trilogy thinks subspace is out too when the shields
> go up.
But we know they have tactical communications when shielded - just watch
any X-wing squadron in battle.
> That leaves EM.
radionics are rare.
> > So it can't be that easy to scan for safe hyperspace routes.
>
> In vast space, that could be true at high speed. But it couldn't be
> excessively difficult.
If one company can tie up a significant number of important trade routes
by witholding hyperspace maps it can't be remotely easy.
--
Lord Edam de Fromage
www.trek-wars.info
Physicians say they can't account for all the enrgy and mass that are
beeing sucked into a black hole - /. post
Kazuaki Shimazaki
news:MPG.1731d1a5c...@news.cis.dfn.de...
<dissociating the Acclamator from VSD/ISD/SSD>
Wow, it is really, really likely that an ISD that is over double the length
and approximately the same width (and a full blown naval destroyer) will
have substantially weaker weapons, to say nothing for a SSD. The quads also
imply a weaker weapon than the heavy turbolaser turrets you can plainly see
with your eyes closed on the ISD.
I already knew that someone's going to try this Isolation Tactic. It would
have been more convincing had you not been talking about something
explicitly mentioned as a _transport_. Personally, I'll say if a _transport_
got that kind of weaponry, one would have to scream at the weaponry held by
an ISD.
<snip>
> But we know they have tactical communications when shielded - just watch
> any X-wing squadron in battle.
Probably by the radio. I'm sure that ships do maintain some form of
communication in battle too, they have to, or they'll be back to the
"blinker light" era.
<snip>
> radionics are rare.
How do you know? Because they don't explicitly mention that they're using
radionics when squawking over the horn?
Besides, it is a simple logic problem.
Problem: They need to communicate. They have three main methods, hyperwave,
subspace, EM.
But we learn that the hyperwave and the subspace are BOTH blocked by the
shielding. The only method left is EM, or turning off some of the shielding
systems. Or do you think they use hand signals and blinker lights?
<snip>
> If one company can tie up a significant number of important trade routes
> by witholding hyperspace maps it can't be remotely easy.
On the other hand, we know for a fact it could be done, or else the original
routes would not be mapped. It is also blatantly explicit that people who
are willing to invest _can_ do it (like the Jedi and the "Office of the
Supreme Chancellor"). It may require some specialized equipment, and it may
not be cheap, but I have severe doubts it is too difficult either.
FTeik
>> by witholding hyperspace maps it can't be remotely easy.
>
A company, that had probabely a monopol for galaxy-wide-trade for centuries
(while other companies were limited to certain sectors (like Kuat or the House
of Tagge), a fleet numbering in the ten- to hundred thousands of ships
(Naboo-Blockade in TPM) and was powerful enough to have a seat in the galactic
senate.
Luke Hares
> > > Next stop: The Galactic Empire vs. the Zentraedi. With a brief
> > > pitstop to steamroll the Honorverse.
> >
> > As this day has seen the end of Star Trek, so soon shall it see the end of
> > all who oppose us.
>
> only one I can think of right now.
>
Yep, Culture will still take ya.. I mean, its just energy, in real space, I
mean where's the problem in handling that...
Luke
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> <dissociating the Acclamator from VSD/ISD/SSD>
> Wow, it is really, really likely that an ISD that is over double the length
> and approximately the same width (and a full blown naval destroyer) will
> have substantially weaker weapons, to say nothing for a SSD. The quads also
> imply a weaker weapon than the heavy turbolaser turrets you can plainly see
> with your eyes closed on the ISD.
Infact, the only thing you can derive from ICS is the figures stated for
the given ship. If official sources indicate other ships have different
abilities from a ship designed for a very different purpose then we
accept the different abilities. Any implications we draw from this new
information must fit with the implications drawn from every other
official source, a point several people seem to have forgotten.
> <snip>
> > But we know they have tactical communications when shielded - just watch
> > any X-wing squadron in battle.
>
> Probably by the radio.
radionics are rare
> > radionics are rare.
>
> How do you know?
Direct statement in the Corellian trilogy. When lando gives his woman a
radio transmitter he says it's rare. I can get the quote when I get home
if you want. I'll trade you, that quote for the subspace blocked by
shields quote.
> Besides, it is a simple logic problem.
>
> Problem: They need to communicate. They have three main methods, hyperwave,
> subspace, EM.
>
> But we learn that the hyperwave and the subspace are BOTH blocked by the
> shielding.
Hyperwave is blocked by shielding. Radionics are very rare for
communication. What's left? Subspace.
One of them has to work with shielded craft, because we've seen ships in
the middle of battle use their comms systems (ROTJ - Ackbar commanding
the rebel fleet)
BTW - if subspace is blocked by shielding, doesn't that mean most SW
ships are blind during battle (subspace sensors and all that)?
> > If one company can tie up a significant number of important trade routes
> > by witholding hyperspace maps it can't be remotely easy.
>
> On the other hand, we know for a fact it could be done
You can swim the english channel or row across the atlantic single
handed - but it takes a long time, is not remotely easy and there are
exceedingly few people who can actually manage it.
It is also blatantly explicit that people who
> are willing to invest _can_ do it (like the Jedi and the "Office of the
> Supreme Chancellor").
you mean the two most powerful organizations in the SW galaxy
Lord Edam de Fromage
burn...@comcast.net says...
> > > "Hyperdrive
> > > Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to allow a
> jump
> > > to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the
> ship."
> >
> > Which (coupled with the low accelerations & top speeds) would put an end
> > to the ideas about 3ISDs at relatavistic speeds hitting an SSD, and
> > would explain why the Zahn trilogy refer to entering hyperspace as
> > "pseudomotion" (aka false motion - not real movement)
>
> This quote says absolutely nothing about velocity in realspace relative to
> the jump to hyperspace.
"coupled with the low accelerations & top speeds"
It's going to take most ships a couple of hours or more to get up to
anywhere near lightspeed. Unless the entry into hyperspace is not a real
acceleration. If it is a false acceleration - the appearance of motion
with no real motion taking place - pseudomotion, then it is being caused
by the hyperdrive, the same hyperdirve that doesn't change the complex
mass and energy of the ship
In other words, the mass and energy of the ship prior to starting the
jump is going to be the same as the mass and energy of the ship in the
lead up to FTL travel, through FTL travel and in the drop back down from
FTL travel afterwards.
To get to even 0.01c is going to take most ships nearly 2 minutes (based
on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have to
watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
directly so.
Does this contradict the RotJ quote? nope - the hyperdrive is engaged at
that point, their mass & energy is the same as it was before they
engaged the hyperdrive. They *are* keeping up with photons for an
instant during the transition, they just don't have the energy to go
with such a state.
His Divine Shadow
> on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
> appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have to
> watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
> directly so.
And in Star by Star, they do it moments without trouble, obviously
technology has moved forward since the Clone Wars.
His Divine Shadow
"His Divine Shadow" <denni...@pp.inet.fi> wrote in message
news:EWSx8.236$X9....@read2.inet.fi...
A theory, around the time the clone wars takes place, Sienar develops a new
type of sublight engine.
This new engine tech was probably present in all newer ships and probably
stolen or reverse engineered and is ALOT more potent than anything they had
then, or so I understand.
So in the future, classic triology era, the sublight engines are lot faster.
They certanly have the power generation capable of it.
2e23w for a ship that is prolly thousands of tons.
If we assume the ship weighs a 100.000 tons it would take 1e24j to
accelerate to .5c.
That means it would take what, 5-10 seconds to accelerate to .5c, wich more
or less fits in with the x-wings in SbS, even though this is a
100.000(assumed) ton starship.
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> > To get to even 0.01c is going to take most ships nearly 2 minutes (based
> > on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
> > appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have to
> > watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
> > directly so.
>
> And in Star by Star, they do it moments without trouble
moments? I've seen plenty of quotes about them being able to do "high"
speeds (usually vagueness rather than specifics) but nothing that says
how long it takes them to get there.
, obviously
> technology has moved forward since the Clone Wars.
Or you've misinterpreted & misrepresented the minor quotes people have
given you.
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> A theory, around the time the clone wars takes place, Sienar develops a new
> type of sublight engine.
> This new engine tech was probably present in all newer ships and probably
> stolen or reverse engineered and is ALOT more potent than anything they had
> then, or so I understand.
> So in the future, classic triology era, the sublight engines are lot faster.
Purely on canonical information from RotJ, "barely sublight" is a couple
hundred km/s (Wedge escaping DS2), which would fit your SbS quotes from
30 years after the classic trilogy, fit the canonical accelerations of
the classic trilogy, and fit the official statements from 30 years
before the classic trilogy with no extra wacky theories required.
Your theory also conveniently fails to explain such examples as the X-
wings approaching the DS in ANH (few thousand g), ISD
acceleration/deceleration from RotJ (few thousand g) and the official
fact that a few percent of a fighter's max acceleration is barely enough
to cause people to black out.
(and also fails to explain why there is a jump in three or four orders
of magnitude for a technology that should have peaked centuries
previously. Just what major breakthrough was there that gave this sudden
increase in propulsion? who did they steal it off, or reverse engineer
it from?)
Graeme Dice
>
> In article <aa8jvr$d4...@imsp212.netvigator.com>, kras...@netvigator.com
> says...
>
> > <dissociating the Acclamator from VSD/ISD/SSD>
> > Wow, it is really, really likely that an ISD that is over double the length
> > and approximately the same width (and a full blown naval destroyer) will
> > have substantially weaker weapons, to say nothing for a SSD. The quads also
> > imply a weaker weapon than the heavy turbolaser turrets you can plainly see
> > with your eyes closed on the ISD.
>
> Infact, the only thing you can derive from ICS is the figures stated for
> the given ship. If official sources indicate other ships have different
> abilities from a ship designed for a very different purpose then we
> accept the different abilities. Any implications we draw from this new
> information must fit with the implications drawn from every other
> official source, a point several people seem to have forgotten.
Then we'll just look for instances of thirty year old transports
blasting ISD's left and right. Well what do you know, there aren't any.
Graeme Dice
--
Famous Last Words 860-PC:"You don't need to see my
identification."
GM:"Which Force power were you using ?"
PC:"Er...optimism..."
His Divine Shadow
> In article <EWSx8.236$X9....@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
> says...
>
> > > To get to even 0.01c is going to take most ships nearly 2 minutes
(based
> > > on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
> > > appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have
to
> > > watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
> > > directly so.
> >
> > And in Star by Star, they do it moments without trouble
>
> moments? I've seen plenty of quotes about them being able to do "high"
> speeds (usually vagueness rather than specifics) but nothing that says
> how long it takes them to get there.
Speeds are vauge, but they sure as hell didn't take several hours as you
suggest, read SbS.
> , obviously
> > technology has moved forward since the Clone Wars.
>
> Or you've misinterpreted & misrepresented the minor quotes people have
> given you.
Nope.
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> > > And in Star by Star, they do it moments without trouble
> >
> > moments? I've seen plenty of quotes about them being able to do "high"
> > speeds (usually vagueness rather than specifics) but nothing that says
> > how long it takes them to get there.
>
> Speeds are vauge
There you go then.
> > Or you've misinterpreted & misrepresented the minor quotes people have
> > given you.
>
> Nope.
We only have your word on that. Given the majority of your quotes are
simply two or three out-of-context lines someone else has given you how
can we be sure?
His Divine Shadow
> In article <LwUx8.283$X9.1...@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
> says...
>
> > > > And in Star by Star, they do it moments without trouble
> > >
> > > moments? I've seen plenty of quotes about them being able to do "high"
> > > speeds (usually vagueness rather than specifics) but nothing that says
> > > how long it takes them to get there.
> >
> > Speeds are vauge
>
> There you go then.
>
> > > Or you've misinterpreted & misrepresented the minor quotes people have
> > > given you.
> >
> > Nope.
>
> We only have your word on that. Given the majority of your quotes are
> simply two or three out-of-context lines someone else has given you how
> can we be sure?
WHAT?
You call my quotes out of context lines?
Thats an insult of the higest degree.
and the quote I recently sent, from SbS isn't out of context at all, I have
the book myself.
His Divine Shadow
> speeds (usually vagueness rather than specifics) but nothing that says
> how long it takes them to get there.
========================
Pg. 468: Both wings-seventy-two X-Wings and eight supercharged
blastboats-dropped out from behind their comet and accellerated to
near-light, closing so rapidly that they were past the perimeter pickets
before the Yuuzhan Vong could loose a magma missile.
========================
-Star by Star
Are you really gonna tell me this took hours?
His Divine Shadow
> In article <wdTx8.249$X9.1...@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
> says...
>
> > A theory, around the time the clone wars takes place, Sienar develops a
new
> > type of sublight engine.
> > This new engine tech was probably present in all newer ships and
probably
> > stolen or reverse engineered and is ALOT more potent than anything they
had
> > then, or so I understand.
> > So in the future, classic triology era, the sublight engines are lot
faster.
>
> Purely on canonical information from RotJ, "barely sublight" is a couple
> hundred km/s (Wedge escaping DS2), which would fit your SbS quotes from
> 30 years after the classic trilogy, fit the canonical accelerations of
> the classic trilogy, and fit the official statements from 30 years
> before the classic trilogy with no extra wacky theories required.
Near light is not the same as barely sublight.
> Your theory also conveniently fails to explain such examples as the X-
> wings approaching the DS in ANH (few thousand g), ISD
> acceleration/deceleration from RotJ (few thousand g)
Why is this indicative of anything?
> and the official
> fact that a few percent of a fighter's max acceleration is barely enough
> to cause people to black out.
Where is that said? This quote also does not work with multiple SbS quotes
and movie quotes.
> (and also fails to explain why there is a jump in three or four orders
> of magnitude for a technology that should have peaked centuries
> previously. Just what major breakthrough was there that gave this sudden
> increase in propulsion? who did they steal it off, or reverse engineer
> it from?)
According to Holonetnews.com, there was infact a major breakthrough in
engine technology, it's official.
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> > Purely on canonical information from RotJ, "barely sublight" is a couple
> > hundred km/s (Wedge escaping DS2), which would fit your SbS quotes from
> > 30 years after the classic trilogy, fit the canonical accelerations of
> > the classic trilogy, and fit the official statements from 30 years
> > before the classic trilogy with no extra wacky theories required.
>
> Near light is not the same as barely sublight.
It's not much different. both refer to a velocity just below or close to
"light", whatever that is.
> > Your theory also conveniently fails to explain such examples as the X-
> > wings approaching the DS in ANH (few thousand g), ISD
> > acceleration/deceleration from RotJ (few thousand g)
>
> Why is this indicative of anything?
please try to keep up.
you say: So in the future, classic triology era, the sublight engines
are lot faster.
This shows that is not the case.
> > and the official
> > fact that a few percent of a fighter's max acceleration is barely enough
> > to cause people to black out.
>
> Where is that said?
Take your pick. Practically any of the Star Wars books, particularly
those involving fighters fighting fighters. It's so incredibly common
it's just merged with the general background splodge of Star Wars info
in my mind. You know X-wings (for example) have inertial compensators to
protect the pilot from the stresses of rough maneuvers? Well, in most
cases experienced pilots set it to round about 98%. You've never heard
of this before? You can't have read many star wars books if that's the
case.
This quote also does not work with multiple SbS quotes
> and movie quotes.
I think that's the point, Dennis. I have no problem making it all fit
together, yet you insist the quotes "don't work" - quotes are incapable
of "not working"
> > (and also fails to explain why there is a jump in three or four orders
> > of magnitude for a technology that should have peaked centuries
> > previously. Just what major breakthrough was there that gave this sudden
> > increase in propulsion? who did they steal it off, or reverse engineer
> > it from?)
>
> According to Holonetnews.com, there was infact a major breakthrough in
> engine technology, it's official.
Do they specifically state the breakthrough is in acceleration and top
speed, such that it is increased by several orders of magnitude? As far
as I can tell we have
few hundred to thousand g acceleration AotC
breakthrough in propulsion
few hundred to thousand g acceleration classic trilogy
seems to all be the same to me.
--
Lord Edam de Fromage * These words he speaks are true
AIM: Sorborus * we are all humanary stew
www.trek-wars.info * If we don't pledge allegiance to
* The Black Widow
His Divine Shadow
"Lord Edam de Fromage" <mi...@trek-wars.info> wrote in message
news:MPG.17326540f...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> In article <FwXx8.375$X9.2...@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
> says...
>
> > > Purely on canonical information from RotJ, "barely sublight" is a
couple
> > > hundred km/s (Wedge escaping DS2), which would fit your SbS quotes
from
> > > 30 years after the classic trilogy, fit the canonical accelerations of
> > > the classic trilogy, and fit the official statements from 30 years
> > > before the classic trilogy with no extra wacky theories required.
> >
> > Near light is not the same as barely sublight.
>
> It's not much different. both refer to a velocity just below or close to
> "light", whatever that is.
So you redefine near lightspeed? Ok....
>
> > > Your theory also conveniently fails to explain such examples as the X-
> > > wings approaching the DS in ANH (few thousand g), ISD
> > > acceleration/deceleration from RotJ (few thousand g)
> >
> > Why is this indicative of anything?
>
>
> please try to keep up.
>
> you say: So in the future, classic triology era, the sublight engines
> are lot faster.
>
> This shows that is not the case.
Nothing conclusive.
> > > and the official
> > > fact that a few percent of a fighter's max acceleration is barely
enough
> > > to cause people to black out.
> >
> > Where is that said?
>
> Take your pick. Practically any of the Star Wars books, particularly
> those involving fighters fighting fighters. It's so incredibly common
> it's just merged with the general background splodge of Star Wars info
> in my mind. You know X-wings (for example) have inertial compensators to
> protect the pilot from the stresses of rough maneuvers? Well, in most
> cases experienced pilots set it to round about 98%. You've never heard
> of this before? You can't have read many star wars books if that's the
> case.
Dodgefighting does not take place at maximum speed, please try and keep up
yourself.
> This quote also does not work with multiple SbS quotes
> > and movie quotes.
>
> I think that's the point, Dennis. I have no problem making it all fit
> together, yet you insist the quotes "don't work" - quotes are incapable
> of "not working"
I have been capable of making it fit too, without re-defining what
lightspeed should mean, I was however not informed of what context your
information was, now that I am, there is no problem.
> > > (and also fails to explain why there is a jump in three or four orders
> > > of magnitude for a technology that should have peaked centuries
> > > previously. Just what major breakthrough was there that gave this
sudden
> > > increase in propulsion? who did they steal it off, or reverse engineer
> > > it from?)
> >
> > According to Holonetnews.com, there was infact a major breakthrough in
> > engine technology, it's official.
>
> Do they specifically state the breakthrough is in acceleration and top
> speed, such that it is increased by several orders of magnitude? As far
> as I can tell we have
They say it's a breakthrough.
Plus before this the OR was technologically stagnant, we've seen in the EU
how technology has moved forward since the Empire came into being, it is
entierly possible that the Clone Wars and later the formation of the Empire
acted like a catalyst for scientific advanced, prior to that, there was a
long time of stangation, and it would explain the speeds reported in later
EU, without redefining the speed of light.
>
> few hundred to thousand g acceleration AotC
> breakthrough in propulsion
> few hundred to thousand g acceleration classic trilogy
>
> seems to all be the same to me.
Nice ignoring the EU.
few hundred to thousand g acceleration AotC
breakthrough in propulsion
few hundred to thousand g acceleration and few hundred-thousand g
decceleration classic trilogy
Hundreds of thousands of g acceleration in the EU
Seems to fit to me.
Ted Archbold
<mi...@trek-wars.info> wrote:
>In article <FwXx8.375$X9.2...@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
>says...
>
>> > Purely on canonical information from RotJ, "barely sublight" is a couple
>> > hundred km/s (Wedge escaping DS2), which would fit your SbS quotes from
>> > 30 years after the classic trilogy, fit the canonical accelerations of
>> > the classic trilogy, and fit the official statements from 30 years
>> > before the classic trilogy with no extra wacky theories required.
>>
>> Near light is not the same as barely sublight.
>
>It's not much different. both refer to a velocity just below or close to
>"light", whatever that is.
Barely sublight doesnt mean that, it would mean more like barely
moving. Or unless you are thinking its like
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% c
AIM: FldMrslTed
ICQ: 125211976
MSN: tedman...@hotmail.com
Cmdrwilkens
news:ZBPHPIAdzu6hKY...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:34:54 -0400, "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> >If you want I could just send you a scan of the /Acclamator/ page so you
can
> >blow it up to poster proportions and smile at it in the morning.
>
> Actually, I'd like that. :)
>
I'll send it before the day is out.
Cmdrwilkens
> In article <aa6qt4$85aan$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de>,
> burn...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > > "Hyperdrive
> > > > Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to
allow a
> > jump
> > > > to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the
> > ship."
> > >
> > > Which (coupled with the low accelerations & top speeds) would put an
end
> > > to the ideas about 3ISDs at relatavistic speeds hitting an SSD, and
> > > would explain why the Zahn trilogy refer to entering hyperspace as
> > > "pseudomotion" (aka false motion - not real movement)
> >
> > This quote says absolutely nothing about velocity in realspace relative
to
> > the jump to hyperspace.
>
> "coupled with the low accelerations & top speeds"
>
> It's going to take most ships a couple of hours or more to get up to
> anywhere near lightspeed. Unless the entry into hyperspace is not a real
> acceleration. If it is a false acceleration - the appearance of motion
> with no real motion taking place - pseudomotion, then it is being caused
> by the hyperdrive, the same hyperdirve that doesn't change the complex
> mass and energy of the ship
You are using the initial stages of the jump (where we see the Falcon begin
to accelerate). I claim in turn that the best way to reconcile these two
canon pieces of information is the ships are in a delta-a state (increasing
acceleration). Thus as the Falcon becomes more distant and it becomes less
easy to discern acceleration it ramps up towards lightspeed just before
crossing the barrier. Were the videogames allowable this is supported but
given that I'm gonna go back and double check the X-Wing series to see if I
can milk some data.
> In other words, the mass and energy of the ship prior to starting the
> jump is going to be the same as the mass and energy of the ship in the
> lead up to FTL travel, through FTL travel and in the drop back down from
> FTL travel afterwards.
The quote says only that the mass/energy before entering hyperspace
(moments? hours? decades?) is the same as the energy once in hyperspace.
> To get to even 0.01c is going to take most ships nearly 2 minutes (based
> on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
> appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have to
> watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
> directly so.
>
At the same time I can point to RotJ novelisation until you inally realize
that no acceleration figure you throw at me will discount what is written in
that book. You cannot take ICS acceleration figures and claim that ships
don't hit relativistic velocities before entering hyperspace when CANON
material says they do.
> Does this contradict the RotJ quote? nope - the hyperdrive is engaged at
> that point, their mass & energy is the same as it was before they
> engaged the hyperdrive. They *are* keeping up with photons for an
> instant during the transition, they just don't have the energy to go
> with such a state.
Trilogy Paperback (softcover pg 429)
"Lando pulled back the conversion switch and opened up the throttle. OUtside
the cockpit the stars began streaking by. The streaks grew brighter, and
longer, as the ships of the fleet roared, in large segments, at lightspeed,
keeping pace first with the very photons of the radiant stars in the
viocinity, and then soaring through the warp into hyperspace itself-and
disappearing in a flash of muon."
Tyrant's Test pg 320
"You see, it turns out no matter which way you go through the magic door you
need a hyperdrive to open it."
Hyperdrive is what opens the pathway between realspace and hyperspace (it
does so by using hypermatter, blah blah, etc). Hyperdrive, in other words,
does not affect the initial jump phases (otherwise why did Lando have to
open up the throttle?)
Cmdrwilkens
news:20020425040905...@mb-bk.aol.com...
Near as I can recall there was mention of such shielding in Han Solo Trilogy
(not the new one but the old one).
His Divine Shadow
> "Kynes" <ky...@choam.org> wrote in message
> news:ZBPHPIAdzu6hKY...@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:34:54 -0400, "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > >If you want I could just send you a scan of the /Acclamator/ page so
you
> can
> > >blow it up to poster proportions and smile at it in the morning.
> >
> > Actually, I'd like that. :)
> >
>
> I'll send it before the day is out.
Could you include me in that?
Kazuaki Shimazaki
> Infact, the only thing you can derive from ICS is the figures stated for
> the given ship. If official sources indicate other ships have different
> abilities from a ship designed for a very different purpose then we
> accept the different abilities. Any implications we draw from this new
> information must fit with the implications drawn from every other
> official source, a point several people seem to have forgotten.
That's precisely what I call dissociation, an insistence that the statistics
for one ship are not even remotely usable for other ships. Your
interpretation will insist that an small, obsolete transport got more
firepower than a modern destroyer, DESPITE the fact doesn't have enough
reactor area to make a huge bulge like an ISD (which is claimed to be a sign
of greater power in the ICS). Our interpretation would merely confirm that
we were right all along when we read the BDZ evidence and others as what
they are.
<snip>
> > > radionics are rare.
> >
> > How do you know?
>
> Direct statement in the Corellian trilogy. When lando gives his woman a
> radio transmitter he says it's rare. I can get the quote when I get home
> if you want. I'll trade you, that quote for the subspace blocked by
> shields quote.
Like you, Edam, I can't give you the quote immediately (I use my teacher's
book for the reference - I see no point in wasting HK$57 for a book I can
regain access to the moment I'm in school). However, since you no doubt have
the Thrawn Trilogy, I can start by telling you to look in TLC, as they're
preparing to hit Ukio (it was the first action in the book). You should find
a quote EXPLCITLY saying as the shields go up, they block the subpace
transmission. You may also find _another_ quote explicitly stating that the
Imperials need new technology to be able to "punch subspace transmissions
through deflector shields" (I am pretty sure I got the exact wording, and I
think it is in TLC, but I'm not certain of anything other than a quote to
this effect).
I'll probably be able to reinforce by First Period Study Hall today with the
first quote, and _maybe_ the second. The first one is probably better
anyway, coming directly from the author rather than a person in the story
(omniniscent advantage). Even if I can't, I'm sure Cmdrwilkens, whose the
big proponent of his comms
theory, can recite the quote from memory, since it formed the original basis
of his idea :-)
Besides, why would an EM radio transmitter be "rare" in a galaxy where they
can do hyperwave and subspace? Probably won't be because they don't have the
TECHNOLOGY, would it?
There are some ways to rationalize Lando's statement. Pity I don't know
exactly what it says so I can't dream up a specific counter, but in general:
1) Lando may be trying to brag to his girlfriend about an antique, and
exaggerated the rarity of radio transmitters in general.
2) He may be talking about dedicated, pure EM transmitters. It is entirely
possible that the function of normal radio and subspace transmitters can be
integrated into a single unit, hence the term "subspace radio", which could
explain both why a specific radionic unit seems so rare (they can build DP
units, so a single-purpose unit is obsolete) AND the stated inability of
subspace transmissions to punch through shielding.
And before you dismiss number 2, subspace is a separate layer that ships and
signals kind of "submerge" themselves into, at least in some subspace
theories. If that's so, then it is entirely possible for a subspace radio to
merely take a radio signal, pack it into a subspace "packet" and whip it
out. Without the subspace submergence system, all you get is...a radio
signal.
These theories are originally developed for Trek, but we generally try and
assume terms are common between the two galaxies, so a subspace theory that
was originally designed for Trek should work in Wars subspace, at least in
this crazy NG.
It will also explain the hard 100LY range limit. A subspace "bubble" could
decay to uselessness after a set distance, but if it is a normal signal, it
should deteoriate over distance and obstruction under the inverse square
law, and in good conditions may be heard up to 500LY out or in bad
conditions barely at 10LY, or under deflector shielding 0!
<snip>
> Hyperwave is blocked by shielding. Radionics are very rare for
> communication. What's left? Subspace.
Erroneous logic. Hyperwave is ruled out as impossible. Subspace is ruled out
as impossible. If there are three choices, and TWO choices are impossible,
the remaining one, however unlikely, is probably the truth. Or there is an
option that we are not aware of yet.
> One of them has to work with shielded craft, because we've seen ships in
> the middle of battle use their comms systems (ROTJ - Ackbar commanding
> the rebel fleet)
IMO, that would be the radio!
> BTW - if subspace is blocked by shielding, doesn't that mean most SW
> ships are blind during battle (subspace sensors and all that)?
Nope, they still got DERs, electrotelescopes, and others.
<snip>
> It is also blatantly explicit that people who
> > are willing to invest _can_ do it (like the Jedi and the "Office of the
> > Supreme Chancellor").
>
> you mean the two most powerful organizations in the SW galaxy
The Jedi are enormously influential, but they have only ten thousand
mainstream members. I doubt they have all the resources of say their
equivalent of the Department of Defense. I don't know about the Office of
the Supreme Chancellor, but it sounds like the special department under the
Supreme Chancellor directly. Both these organizations may have great
interests in acquiring hyperspace routes even at substantial cost, but there
is no reason to believe they have enormous amounts of resources, compared to
all the OTHER departments.
Sir Nitram
>news:MPG.1731f96e...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> In article <aa8jvr$d4...@imsp212.netvigator.com>, kras...@netvigator.com
>> says...
><snip>
>> Infact, the only thing you can derive from ICS is the figures stated for
>> the given ship. If official sources indicate other ships have different
>> abilities from a ship designed for a very different purpose then we
>> accept the different abilities. Any implications we draw from this new
>> information must fit with the implications drawn from every other
>> official source, a point several people seem to have forgotten.
>
>That's precisely what I call dissociation, an insistence that the statistics
>for one ship are not even remotely usable for other ships. Your
>interpretation will insist that an small, obsolete transport got more
>firepower than a modern destroyer, DESPITE the fact doesn't have enough
>reactor area to make a huge bulge like an ISD (which is claimed to be a sign
>of greater power in the ICS). Our interpretation would merely confirm that
>we were right all along when we read the BDZ evidence and others as what
>they are.
>
The joy of it all is that other OR ships have Quad Turbolasers and both WOTC
and WEG give damage for it. My WEG scaling is posted, and if someone can find
the WOTC damage for the same weapons, I can derive firepower for the HTLs.
--
SirNitram
ASVS Small Gods Keeper and Amateur Genius
The most powerful attack of them all...
DALTONDOKEN!
Brought to you by cheese.
Kazuaki Shimazaki
> Direct statement in the Corellian trilogy. When lando gives his woman a
> radio transmitter he says it's rare. I can get the quote when I get home
> if you want. I'll trade you, that quote for the subspace blocked by
> shields quote.
The reinforcement: TLC Page 2 (if you don't find it there, try page 3)
"The holo sputtered and vanished as the Bellicose raised its deflector
shields, cutting off long range communications."
Admittedly, it does not _specifically_ mention subspace, but if it
only blocks hyperwave, at that relatively short distance (they're at
an assembly point, and it is unlikely they're scattered over hundreds
of light years), they can easily maintain contact with subspace. If
they lost subspace contact, they can maintian hyperwave. So it is
possible that this quote works MORE to my favor, locking out subspace
and hyperwave.
I'll love to find you that other quote, but it seems hindered. My
teacher apparently lost his DFR somewhere, and I'm having trouble
finding it in TLC.
Oh well...
Ted Archbold
And of course, as subspace doesnt even exist, they could have invented
a whole new degree of space for a communication set that doesnt get
killed by shields
Cmdrwilkens
No garuntees (and yes I see what time it is but I've got too much fuckin
work, regardless I will have it out by the time I hit the rack tonight).
Kazuaki Shimazaki
<snip>
> No garuntees (and yes I see what time it is but I've got too much fuckin
> work, regardless I will have it out by the time I hit the rack tonight).
One for me too, please :-)
Kazuaki Shimazaki
news:ded1f9ac.02042...@posting.google.com...
<snip>
> The reinforcement: TLC Page 2 (if you don't find it there, try page 3)
> "The holo sputtered and vanished as the Bellicose raised its deflector
> shields, cutting off long range communications."
Nitpick here. Add "image" behind holo. Sorry.
Kazuaki Shimazaki
news:3cc8b85a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
<snip>
> And of course, as subspace doesnt even exist, they could have invented
> a whole new degree of space for a communication set that doesnt get
> killed by shields
Subspace exists in both ST and SW. There's no evidence for anything other
than EM, subspace and hyperwave AFAIK. Oh, yeah, there's the Force, but
that's not technologically based :-)
Cmdrwilkens
> Yes I bought it and liek everyone else said it rocks, that aside let me
> proced with PDDing so that the trek side may forever bow.
Man, no one even bothers to thank me for getting all this out within 15
hours of the shelf hour of the book (excepting HDS who did thank me in
general). I will now crawl back in my hole to whither and die.
Kazuaki Shimazaki
<snip>
> Man, no one even bothers to thank me for getting all this out within 15
> hours of the shelf hour of the book (excepting HDS who did thank me in
> general). I will now crawl back in my hole to whither and die.
Oh, please don't Greg. We're sorry. We just got carried away partying over
the great news that...OK, fine it is our fault that we didn't send flowers
and presents BEFORE going out for beer (or some other drink for me, for I'm
under the legal drinking age) till intoxication :-)
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> ========================
> Pg. 468: Both wings-seventy-two X-Wings and eight supercharged
> blastboats-dropped out from behind their comet and accellerated to
> near-light, closing so rapidly that they were past the perimeter pickets
> before the Yuuzhan Vong could loose a magma missile.
> ========================
> -Star by Star
>
> Are you really gonna tell me this took hours?
"Wedge exited the superstructure at barely sublight" - ROTJ
sounds very similar. the X-wings in SbS were probably going about as
fast as Wedge's near teh end of RotJ
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> > > > Purely on canonical information from RotJ, "barely sublight" is a
> couple
> > > > hundred km/s (Wedge escaping DS2), which would fit your SbS quotes
> from
> > > > 30 years after the classic trilogy, fit the canonical accelerations of
> > > > the classic trilogy, and fit the official statements from 30 years
> > > > before the classic trilogy with no extra wacky theories required.
> > >
> > > Near light is not the same as barely sublight.
> >
> > It's not much different. both refer to a velocity just below or close to
> > "light", whatever that is.
>
> So you redefine near lightspeed? Ok....
No, I take two quotes that appear to be the same (near light and barely
sublight), and see what they *actually* refer to, or have you forgotten
the first bit of quotage above already?
> > > > Your theory also conveniently fails to explain such examples as the X-
> > > > wings approaching the DS in ANH (few thousand g), ISD
> > > > acceleration/deceleration from RotJ (few thousand g)
> > >
> > > Why is this indicative of anything?
> >
> > please try to keep up.
> >
> > you say: So in the future, classic triology era, the sublight engines
> > are lot faster.
> >
> > This shows that is not the case.
>
> Nothing conclusive.
What is there would would greatly change the conclusions?
> > Take your pick. Practically any of the Star Wars books, particularly
> > those involving fighters fighting fighters. It's so incredibly common
> > it's just merged with the general background splodge of Star Wars info
> > in my mind. You know X-wings (for example) have inertial compensators to
> > protect the pilot from the stresses of rough maneuvers? Well, in most
> > cases experienced pilots set it to round about 98%. You've never heard
> > of this before? You can't have read many star wars books if that's the
> > case.
>
> Dodgefighting does not take place at maximum speed, please try and keep up
> yourself.
No, but it would involve near high accelerations
> > This quote also does not work with multiple SbS quotes
> > > and movie quotes.
> >
> > I think that's the point, Dennis. I have no problem making it all fit
> > together, yet you insist the quotes "don't work" - quotes are incapable
> > of "not working"
>
> I have been capable of making it fit too, without re-defining what
> lightspeed should mean,
And ignoring canon and official accelerations and the fact that "brealy
sublight" is, canonically, only a few hundred km/s, all in favour
> > Do they specifically state the breakthrough is in acceleration and top
> > speed, such that it is increased by several orders of magnitude? As far
> > as I can tell we have
>
> They say it's a breakthrough.
So they don't say what sort of break through. However, you feel
perfectly happy to assume this breakthrough is an increase of several
orders of magnitude in top speed and acceleration, even though it isn't
needed?
> Plus before this the OR was technologically stagnant, we've seen in the EU
> how technology has moved forward since the Empire came into being,
Yeah, I mean we went from shit hot turbolasers to...shit hot
turbolasers.
Respectable acceleration to ... respectable acceleration
km long ships to...km long ships
ringworlds & other massive space stations to...massive space stations.
it is
> entierly possible that the Clone Wars and later the formation of the Empire
> acted like a catalyst for scientific advanced, prior to that, there was a
> long time of stangation, and it would explain the speeds reported in later
> EU, without redefining the speed of light.
Or, alternatively, we could see what the claims are actually shown to
be, re-define nothing and leave everything as it is.
> > few hundred to thousand g acceleration AotC
> > breakthrough in propulsion
> > few hundred to thousand g acceleration classic trilogy
> >
> > seems to all be the same to me.
>
> Nice ignoring the EU.
No, Dennis. The breakthrough in propulsion is EU. The few hundred to
thousand g is EU.
> few hundred to thousand g acceleration AotC
> breakthrough in propulsion
> few hundred to thousand g acceleration and few hundred-thousand g
> decceleration classic trilogy
yes, just look at the deceleration of those ISDs as they crash in ESB.
just look at the deceleration of the imperial fleet as it traps the
rebels in rotj
Just look at the deceleration of the ISD as it get sucked into a black
hole in
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/marvel/54differential.jpg
(with forcefield technology to direct thrust deceleration and
acceleration should be about the same)
the only examples of acceleration anywhere near what is needed for your
theory to work is based on repulsor tech. We aren't discussing
repulsors.
> Hundreds of thousands of g acceleration in the EU
Really? Where's that then?
> Seems to fit to me.
No, it doesn't. If there was a massive breakthrough in acceleration
round about AotC, as HNN.com says, the X-wings should have been much
faster, Wedge's exit from teh DS2 should have been faster.
Why aren't they?
--
Lord Edam de Fromage
His Divine Shadow
> In article <7EUx8.288$X9.1...@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
> says...
>
> > ========================
> > Pg. 468: Both wings-seventy-two X-Wings and eight supercharged
> > blastboats-dropped out from behind their comet and accellerated to
> > near-light, closing so rapidly that they were past the perimeter pickets
> > before the Yuuzhan Vong could loose a magma missile.
> > ========================
> > -Star by Star
> >
> > Are you really gonna tell me this took hours?
>
> "Wedge exited the superstructure at barely sublight" - ROTJ
>
> sounds very similar. the X-wings in SbS were probably going about as
> fast as Wedge's near teh end of RotJ
Yet, they aren't the same, we do not know what sublight is, could be some
unknown form of measurement, we do however know what lightspeed is.
Lord Edam de Fromage
burn...@comcast.net says...
> > > > > "Hyperdrive
> > > > > Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to
> allow a
> > > jump
> > > > > to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of the
> > > ship."
> > It's going to take most ships a couple of hours or more to get up to
> > anywhere near lightspeed. Unless the entry into hyperspace is not a real
> > acceleration. If it is a false acceleration - the appearance of motion
> > with no real motion taking place - pseudomotion, then it is being caused
> > by the hyperdrive, the same hyperdirve that doesn't change the complex
> > mass and energy of the ship
>
> You are using the initial stages of the jump (where we see the Falcon begin
> to accelerate).
I'm using teh engagement of teh hyperdrive which is stated to work
without changing the complex mass and energy.
I claim in turn that the best way to reconcile these two
> canon pieces of information is the ships are in a delta-a state (increasing
> acceleration).
When the hyperdrive is engaged (pulled the lever) and their mass and
energy has changed. Contradicted by the quote.
> > In other words, the mass and energy of the ship prior to starting the
> > jump is going to be the same as the mass and energy of the ship in the
> > lead up to FTL travel, through FTL travel and in the drop back down from
> > FTL travel afterwards.
>
> The quote says only that the mass/energy before entering hyperspace
> (moments? hours? decades?) is the same as the energy once in hyperspace.
The quote says hyperdrive does not change the mass/energy. There is
nothing about this effect being delayed.
> > To get to even 0.01c is going to take most ships nearly 2 minutes (based
> > on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
> > appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have to
> > watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
> > directly so.
>
> At the same time I can point to RotJ novelisation until you inally realize
> that no acceleration figure you throw at me will discount what is written in
> that book.
yuo mean the keeping pace with photons bit? No need to discount it. they
ARE keeping pace with photons - just not with the relatavistic mas &
energy to go with such a state. Their mass & energy would be teh same as
it was before they engaged the hyperdrive.
You cannot take ICS acceleration figures and claim that ships
> don't hit relativistic velocities before entering hyperspace when CANON
> material says they do.
No, but I can take ICS acceleration figures and say the mass and energy
of the ships when they hit these velocities are NOT the relatavistic
mass and energy they should be
> > Does this contradict the RotJ quote? nope - the hyperdrive is engaged at
> > that point, their mass & energy is the same as it was before they
> > engaged the hyperdrive. They *are* keeping up with photons for an
> > instant during the transition, they just don't have the energy to go
> > with such a state.
>
> Trilogy Paperback (softcover pg 429)
> "Lando pulled back the conversion switch and opened up the throttle. OUtside
> the cockpit the stars began streaking by. The streaks grew brighter, and
> longer, as the ships of the fleet roared, in large segments, at lightspeed,
> keeping pace first with the very photons of the radiant stars in the
> viocinity, and then soaring through the warp into hyperspace itself-and
> disappearing in a flash of muon."
And? Hyperdrive was engaged when Lando pulled back the conversion
switch.
> Tyrant's Test pg 320
> "You see, it turns out no matter which way you go through the magic door you
> need a hyperdrive to open it."
Yep. Hyperdrive is needed to get FTL. So what?
Where does it say the hyperdrive is not engaged until the moment they
cross the barrier?
> Hyperdrive is what opens the pathway between realspace and hyperspace (it
> does so by using hypermatter, blah blah, etc). Hyperdrive, in other words,
> does not affect the initial jump phases (otherwise why did Lando have to
> open up the throttle?)
Nothing you have provided shows this.
The accelerations we have show they cannot acclerate to relatavistic
speeds using their normal engines in the time we know it takes to go
FTL, so they must be using the hyperdrive. But when the hyperdrive is
engaged the ships stop gaining mass and energy as they accelerate.
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> > Direct statement in the Corellian trilogy. When lando gives his woman a
> > radio transmitter he says it's rare. I can get the quote when I get home
> > if you want. I'll trade you, that quote for the subspace blocked by
> > shields quote.
>
> Like you, Edam, I can't give you the quote immediately (I use my teacher's
> book for the reference - I see no point in wasting HK$57 for a book I can
> regain access to the moment I'm in school). However, since you no doubt have
> the Thrawn Trilogy, I can start by telling you to look in TLC, as they're
> preparing to hit Ukio (it was the first action in the book). You should find
> a quote EXPLCITLY saying as the shields go up, they block the subpace
> transmission. You may also find _another_ quote explicitly stating that the
> Imperials need new technology to be able to "punch subspace transmissions
> through deflector shields" (I am pretty sure I got the exact wording, and I
> think it is in TLC, but I'm not certain of anything other than a quote to
> this effect).
Ah, so Star Wars ships are deaf dumb and blind in battle, since they use
subspace for short-range comms and sub-space for sensors. They don't use
radionics, and hyperwave is blocked by shields and other large objects.
Oh, but we know they use subspace for short-range comms and sensors, and
we know shielded ships can see other ships and talk to other ships
during battle, so obviously short range subspace is not affected.
> Besides, why would an EM radio transmitter be "rare" in a galaxy where they
> can do hyperwave and subspace?
Why would an abacus be rare in a world where we have calculators and
computers?
Probably won't be because they don't have the
> TECHNOLOGY, would it?
They have the technology, it's just obsolete.
> There are some ways to rationalize Lando's statement. Pity I don't know
> exactly what it says so I can't dream up a specific counter, but in general:
I completely forgot to dig it out. Remind me later.
> > Hyperwave is blocked by shielding. Radionics are very rare for
> > communication. What's left? Subspace.
>
> Erroneous logic. Hyperwave is ruled out as impossible. Subspace is ruled out
> as impossible.
We see shielded ships communicate and use their sensors in real time
over significant distances. This is too far for radio to work, hyperwave
is blocked by shields. All that left is subspace. We know subspace
sensors work through shields, we know short ragne subspace comms work
through shields.
> > It is also blatantly explicit that people who
> > > are willing to invest _can_ do it (like the Jedi and the "Office of the
> > > Supreme Chancellor").
> >
> > you mean the two most powerful organizations in the SW galaxy
>
> The Jedi are enormously influential
And rich.
> I doubt they have all the resources of say their
> equivalent of the Department of Defense.
Doesn't AotC show there is no department of defense?
If it was relatively easy to map hyperspace routes one or two companies
or organisations would not be able to control trade by witholding the
information.
Lord Edam de Fromage
kras...@netvigator.com says...
> > Direct statement in the Corellian trilogy. When lando gives his woman a
> > radio transmitter he says it's rare. I can get the quote when I get home
> > if you want. I'll trade you, that quote for the subspace blocked by
> > shields quote.
>
> The reinforcement: TLC Page 2 (if you don't find it there, try page 3)
> "The holo sputtered and vanished as the Bellicose raised its deflector
> shields, cutting off long range communications."
>
> Admittedly, it does not _specifically_ mention subspace,
Then you cannot use this quote to claim shields block subspace. If they
were already connected via hyperwave they would need to switch over to
subspace.
Lord Edam de Fromage
says...
> > sounds very similar. the X-wings in SbS were probably going about as
> > fast as Wedge's near teh end of RotJ
>
> Yet, they aren't the same, we do not know what sublight is,
We don't know what "nearly light" is, either. Both quotes clearly refer
to a similar speed. We can see what that is by watching Wedge in ROTJ
Alexander Moon
Let me add my thanks as well, and announce that the horny sorority girls
should be showing up at Greg's house soon.
--
Alex Moon
"I usually attempt to offend as large a group of females as
possible in every statement. That way they won't ask me to take out
the garbage." -Nick
His Divine Shadow
>
> No, I take two quotes that appear to be the same (near light and barely
> sublight), and see what they *actually* refer to, or have you forgotten
> the first bit of quotage above already?
So you assume that "barely sublight" means the same as "Near lightspeed"?
OK, now that we know it is just an assumption, I can say that I do not agree
with it.
I find it alot more likely that the scene was maybe a slo-motion scene or
that sublight is not the same as "near lightspeed"
> > Nothing conclusive.
>
> What is there would would greatly change the conclusions?
Err?
> And ignoring canon and official accelerations and the fact that "brealy
> sublight" is, canonically, only a few hundred km/s, all in favour
Please separate your assumptious theories from canon, they are assumptions
you made, that I do not agree with.
Plus I have documented acceleration of 1262km/s^2 in the movie.
Will be adressed later.
> So they don't say what sort of break through. However, you feel
> perfectly happy to assume this breakthrough is an increase of several
> orders of magnitude in top speed and acceleration, even though it isn't
> needed?
No specifics were mentioned, there is still a great war to come, several
decades for technological advancements, a new goverment, strife, wars and so
on, stuff that creates need, and neccesity is the mother of all inventions.
> Or, alternatively, we could see what the claims are actually shown to
> be, re-define nothing and leave everything as it is.
No thanks, I'd rather not alter reality.
And there is still the movies.
> No, Dennis. The breakthrough in propulsion is EU. The few hundred to
> thousand g is EU.
Actually in ROTJ we see the rebel fleet accelerating about 4020km in 18
seconds, or 22,739G's
> yes, just look at the deceleration of those ISDs as they crash in ESB.
> just look at the deceleration of the imperial fleet as it traps the
> rebels in rotj
Doesn't define an upper limit.
> Just look at the deceleration of the ISD as it get sucked into a black
> hole in
> http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/marvel/54differential.jpg
Hmm... I can't say this shows decceleration, we know the ISD chased luke and
got too near the black hole, how near we cannot say.
I do see that there was a million+ G's there, so that makes an ISD's accel.
less than a million G's, well not really, the problem wasn't the engines,
the problem was that the stress tore the ship apart.
> the only examples of acceleration anywhere near what is needed for your
> theory to work is based on repulsor tech. We aren't discussing
> repulsors.
What? Proof that repulsors are used?
> > Hundreds of thousands of g acceleration in the EU
>
> Really? Where's that then?
Here and there :p
========================
Pg. 100: Anakin was not as imporessed by their shooting as by their flying.
To merge into one blip, they had to be on top of each other, no more than a
meter apart, at a velocity that might well be 10 percent of light.
========================
-Star by Star
I have the book, the context is that these three barabels are fighting the
Vong, in the middle of the fight(IIRC) they turn into one blip, 10PSL is
their velocity, this didn't take alot of time since the battle sure as hell
didn't take hours.
There is also this one:
Top Star Destroyer speed = .65c according to Mandel blueprints
Accelerative figure from the EU:
========================
Pg. 274: twenty seconds after that he had changed course and accelerated to
his top sublight speed in order to intercept-
========================
-Showdown at Centerpoint
I do not have the book, but I was told it was an ISD who did this.
The math itself:
.65c is 194865km/s wich we divide by 20 to get = 9743km/s^2 - or 993,509G's
> No, it doesn't.
Yeah, it does :)
> If there was a massive breakthrough in acceleration
> round about AotC, as HNN.com says, the X-wings should have been much
> faster, Wedge's exit from teh DS2 should have been faster.
> Why aren't they?
Because "barely sublight" doesn't mean what you assume it should or there
was a slow-motion sequence.
Cmdrwilkens
Kaz I'm gonna toss in agreement with Edam here. The Zahn quote states only
that LONG-RANGE comms were affected by shielding. Thus it seems that long
range (hyperwave) and HoloNet communicaiton is blocked by shielding thus the
reason for using subspace comms after all its a millenia old technology
which means it'd be perfectly hardened for military use.
>
>
> > Besides, why would an EM radio transmitter be "rare" in a galaxy where
they
> > can do hyperwave and subspace?
>
> Why would an abacus be rare in a world where we have calculators and
> computers?
That's almost FUQable.
> > There are some ways to rationalize Lando's statement. Pity I don't know
> > exactly what it says so I can't dream up a specific counter, but in
general:
>
> I completely forgot to dig it out. Remind me later.
Found it for ya since I knew what you were thinking of.
From Ambush at Corellia pg 269
" 'But there's a very old communications system that doesn't use hyperspace
at all. It uses modulation of low-frequency electromagnetic radiatio, in the
radio band of the spectrum. Radionics, they call it. It's constrained by the
speed of light, and its limited in range, too, unless you beam it or use a
lot of power. But no one uses it, so cops and border patrols never bother to
listen for it."
>
> > > Hyperwave is blocked by shielding. Radionics are very rare for
> > > communication. What's left? Subspace.
> >
> > Erroneous logic. Hyperwave is ruled out as impossible. Subspace is ruled
out
> > as impossible.
>
> We see shielded ships communicate and use their sensors in real time
> over significant distances. This is too far for radio to work, hyperwave
> is blocked by shields. All that left is subspace. We know subspace
> sensors work through shields, we know short ragne subspace comms work
> through shields.
>
Kaz once more I'll agree with Edam. Zahn ruled out long-range comms which,
to me, seems to suggest hyperwave. This would fit in with the general idea
that distortions such as shielding could hinder both hyperwave and HoloNet
since they use hyperspace.
> > > It is also blatantly explicit that people who
> > > > are willing to invest _can_ do it (like the Jedi and the "Office of
the
> > > > Supreme Chancellor").
> > >
> > > you mean the two most powerful organizations in the SW galaxy
> >
> > The Jedi are enormously influential
>
> And rich.
Its good to be rich, very good.
> > I doubt they have all the resources of say their
> > equivalent of the Department of Defense.
>
> Doesn't AotC show there is no department of defense?
>
> If it was relatively easy to map hyperspace routes one or two companies
> or organisations would not be able to control trade by witholding the
> information.
>
It might be relatively easy but remember that once upon a time information
was shared galacticly for free so the logistics behind mapping may have
fallen by the wayside so that large corporations such as the Trade
Federation will be the only mapping agency over a large sector of space.
His Divine Shadow
> In article <yz7y8.59$3K1....@read2.inet.fi>, denni...@pp.inet.fi
> says...
>
> > > sounds very similar. the X-wings in SbS were probably going about as
> > > fast as Wedge's near teh end of RotJ
> >
> > Yet, they aren't the same, we do not know what sublight is,
>
> We don't know what "nearly light" is, either. Both quotes clearly refer
> to a similar speed. We can see what that is by watching Wedge in ROTJ
We know what near lightspeed is.
"Barely subligth" however could mean something else(or a slo-mo sequence,
better than saying the speed of light isn't C in SW).
End of discussion on that.
Cmdrwilkens
> In article <aaa0hb$8u2t0$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de>,
> burn...@comcast.net says...
>
> > > > > > "Hyperdrive
> > > > > > Hyperdrives adjust faster-than-light "hypermatter" particles to
> > allow a
> > > > jump
> > > > > > to light-speed without changing the complex mass and energy of
the
> > > > ship."
>
>
> > > It's going to take most ships a couple of hours or more to get up to
> > > anywhere near lightspeed. Unless the entry into hyperspace is not a
real
> > > acceleration. If it is a false acceleration - the appearance of motion
> > > with no real motion taking place - pseudomotion, then it is being
caused
> > > by the hyperdrive, the same hyperdirve that doesn't change the complex
> > > mass and energy of the ship
> >
> > You are using the initial stages of the jump (where we see the Falcon
begin
> > to accelerate).
>
> I'm using teh engagement of teh hyperdrive which is stated to work
> without changing the complex mass and energy.
>
I am telling you that you are misusing the quote. It states that hyperdrive
transitions between subluminal and supraluminal. It does NOT state that it
is at work during the entire ramp up sequence and Major Sorannon's quote
indicates that hyperdrive is only the door opener.
> I claim in turn that the best way to reconcile these two
>
> > canon pieces of information is the ships are in a delta-a state
(increasing
> > acceleration).
>
> When the hyperdrive is engaged (pulled the lever) and their mass and
> energy has changed. Contradicted by the quote.
>
Wrong, they "open up the throttle." Did you not read the RotJ quote? The
hyperdrive isn't doing jack shit it is the throttle that is changing the
mass/energy of the system here which would be apparent to most observers.
> > > In other words, the mass and energy of the ship prior to starting the
> > > jump is going to be the same as the mass and energy of the ship in the
> > > lead up to FTL travel, through FTL travel and in the drop back down
from
> > > FTL travel afterwards.
> >
> > The quote says only that the mass/energy before entering hyperspace
> > (moments? hours? decades?) is the same as the energy once in hyperspace.
>
> The quote says hyperdrive does not change the mass/energy. There is
> nothing about this effect being delayed.
>
Exactly, hyperdrive takes the mass/energy immediately before the jump, not a
half-minute before when they open up the throttle and accelerate. The
hyperdrive is merely the tool to transition from subluminal to supraluminal
and is not ivolved in the acceleration process which is the work of the
throttle. i again direct you to the RotJ quote "opened up the throttle."
> > > To get to even 0.01c is going to take most ships nearly 2 minutes
(based
> > > on 3000g acceleration) of straight line acceleration. To get to
> > > appreciable relatavistic speeds is going to take hours. I don't have
to
> > > watch AotC to tell you this will be contradicted by the film, and very
> > > directly so.
> >
> > At the same time I can point to RotJ novelisation until you inally
realize
> > that no acceleration figure you throw at me will discount what is
written in
> > that book.
>
> yuo mean the keeping pace with photons bit? No need to discount it. they
> ARE keeping pace with photons - just not with the relatavistic mas &
> energy to go with such a state. Their mass & energy would be teh same as
> it was before they engaged the hyperdrive.
Prove that they don't have the relativistic mass/energy because hyperdrive
only alters your pre/post conversion energy equivalence not anything during
the run up to hyperspace, unless of course you want to claim for some reason
that the Falcon was in hyperspace as soon as it pulled the lever.
> You cannot take ICS acceleration figures and claim that ships
> > don't hit relativistic velocities before entering hyperspace when CANON
> > material says they do.
>
> No, but I can take ICS acceleration figures and say the mass and energy
> of the ships when they hit these velocities are NOT the relatavistic
> mass and energy they should be
ICS does not indicate any affect on the acceleration phase of a hyperjump.
ICS indicates that the hyperdrive affects only the transition itself not the
acceleration up to hyperspace.
> > > Does this contradict the RotJ quote? nope - the hyperdrive is engaged
at
> > > that point, their mass & energy is the same as it was before they
> > > engaged the hyperdrive. They *are* keeping up with photons for an
> > > instant during the transition, they just don't have the energy to go
> > > with such a state.
> >
> > Trilogy Paperback (softcover pg 429)
> > "Lando pulled back the conversion switch and opened up the throttle.
OUtside
> > the cockpit the stars began streaking by. The streaks grew brighter, and
> > longer, as the ships of the fleet roared, in large segments, at
lightspeed,
> > keeping pace first with the very photons of the radiant stars in the
> > viocinity, and then soaring through the warp into hyperspace itself-and
> > disappearing in a flash of muon."
>
>
> And? Hyperdrive was engaged when Lando pulled back the conversion
> switch.
So you are saying that the Falcon was already in hyperspace? ICS says only
that hyperdrives alter you into the supraluminal state so are you saying
that as soon as Lando pulled the switch he was traveling at >c velocities?
> > Tyrant's Test pg 320
> > "You see, it turns out no matter which way you go through the magic door
you
> > need a hyperdrive to open it."
>
> Yep. Hyperdrive is needed to get FTL. So what?
>
> Where does it say the hyperdrive is not engaged until the moment they
> cross the barrier?
Hyperdrive doesn't do anything except open the door, it does not have this
magical "pseudo realspace acceleration phase" that you appear to be claiming
with the Falcon not accelerating to relativistic velocities in RotJ.
>
> > Hyperdrive is what opens the pathway between realspace and hyperspace
(it
> > does so by using hypermatter, blah blah, etc). Hyperdrive, in other
words,
> > does not affect the initial jump phases (otherwise why did Lando have to
> > open up the throttle?)
>
> Nothing you have provided shows this.
>
> The accelerations we have show they cannot acclerate to relatavistic
> speeds using their normal engines in the time we know it takes to go
> FTL, so they must be using the hyperdrive. But when the hyperdrive is
> engaged the ships stop gaining mass and energy as they accelerate.
>
Hyperdrive is never stated to have the effect you describe and I find it far
more valuable to look at RotJ and see realspace acceleration to near-c then
transition into hyperspace (without any mass/energy change between sub-light
and supra-light states) via hyperdrive.
Cmdrwilkens
news:Xns91FC7065780DDm...@130.133.1.4...
> "Kazuaki Shimazaki" <kras...@netvigator.com> wrote in
> news:aaav4e$ff...@imsp212.netvigator.com:
>
> > "Cmdrwilkens" <burn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:aaasq2$92qmd$1...@ID-97732.news.dfncis.de...
> > <snip>
> >> Man, no one even bothers to thank me for getting all this out within
> >> 15 hours of the shelf hour of the book (excepting HDS who did thank
> >> me in general). I will now crawl back in my hole to whither and die.
> >
> > Oh, please don't Greg. We're sorry. We just got carried away partying
> > over the great news that...OK, fine it is our fault that we didn't
> > send flowers and presents BEFORE going out for beer (or some other
> > drink for me, for I'm under the legal drinking age) till intoxication
> > :-)
> >
> >
> >
>
> Let me add my thanks as well, and announce that the horny sorority girls
> should be showing up at Greg's house soon.
>
They damn well better be Bi- horny sorority girls. Anyway thanks everyone
and please use the informaitomn to crush all who oppose you.