ASVS Rules and Regulations, Parts C and D - Allowed (C) and Disallowed (D) Topics
Jason L. Miles
These are some of the more popular scenarios discussed in the group. These topics are only suggestions, of course; you may discuss anything you like providing it's not a Disallowed Topics and it doesn't break any of the general Rule of Engagement. These scenarios are actually so common that some of them have specific Rules associated with them, noted in the description. These Rules apply only to the scenarios in which they are noted (i.e. you can't apply "fight to the death" rules to "The Empire invades the Federation" scenarios).
1. Duels
Any fight to the death between two characters from opposite sides, as long as none of the rules in the Disallowed Topics section are broken. I.E. Riker vs. Yoda is allowed, Q vs. A Random Ewok is NOT allowed. It must be pointed out that the two people are assumed to be fighting in a neutral area and they are overwhelmingly compelled to fight to the death. In other words, running away is not allowed, nor is changing the venue.
2. Limited Ground Combat
Limited Ground Engagements: These are battle between small groups of ground forces from opposing side. Unlike Duels, which exist to determine technological, tactical or physical superiority, Limited Ground Engagements are meant to simulate real battles. Therefore, unless it is otherwise stated in the first post, it will be assumed that anything that can be done to force the other side to surrender is acceptable. This includes but is not limited to: Running away, Terrorist Activities, Biological Weapons, threats or genocide, etc. However, you must use the the personality of the combatants, so you can't make Picard turn into a genocidal maniac to win the battle.
3. Ship to Ship
Any fight between two ships, or two groups of ships from opposite sides, with the same restrictions as with Duels. I.E. saying the E-E could warp away from a SSD is also an admission of defeat. The combatants can use Warp or Hyperdrive to gain a tactical advantage. BUT there is a fine line between maneuvering and running away, and moving outside your weapons' range is running away. NOTE: there is also a fine line between fleet maneuvers and campaign battles with definite goals. Please make this distinction explicit and in the first post.
4. Limited Strategic Warfare
Limited Strategic Engagements: These are battle between small groups of ships from opposing side. Think of it as the middle groups between Ship to Ship and Campaigns. Large, fleet vs. fleet engagements, with the inclusion of planets, starbases, or other large installations of strategic interest. Unlike Ship to Ship scenarios, which exist to determine technological or tactical superiority, fleet v. fleet engagements are meant to simulate real battles. Therefore, unless it is otherwise stated in the first post, it will be assumed that anything that can be done to force the other side to surrender is acceptable. This includes but is not limited to: Running away, planetary bombardments, threats or genocide, etc. As with Limited Ground Combat, no Plot Induces Personality Changes™
5. Campaigns
A long term campaign style war. NOTE: as per rule #1 in the Disallowed Topics section, advancements in technology through time are NOT allowed. I.E. Pro-SW people can NOT say, 'The Empire would capture a ST ship and retrofit warp drives to all off their SDs.' The reverse is also true, so no hyperdrives on the Enterprise.
6. Technological Comparisons
Any technology comparison between counter parts is allowed with a few constraints. The two pieces of technology must be similar in function, in availability and be the same technological level within its galaxy. Some examples of faulty comparisons:
* Data vs. MF: Dissimilar Functions - Droid vs. Space Ship
* Data vs. Protocol Driods: Dissimilar Availability - Unique vs.
Mass Produced
* Data vs. Bollux: Dissimilar Technological Level - State
of the Art vs. Obsolete
Part D - Disallowed Topics
The following topics are disallowed.
1. Advancement Through Time
The Pro-SW side is not allowed to bring up "A long time ago in a galaxy
far, far away" and say by the time ST and SW meet SW will be a lot more
advanced then what we see in the movies. Conversely, the Pro-ST side is
not allowed to state that technology seen in previous episodes will be
more advanced than what we saw.
2. Unlikely Alliances
No one can bring up unlikely alliances. By doing so that person is, in
effect, saying, 'Our side is so weak that the individual factions will
put aside all their differences and fight together.' In other words, it
is an admission of defeat. An alliance is unlikely if any of the
following are true:
* Alliance would only form if there is no other way
for victory.
* Alliance would collapse at first sign of possible defeat.
* Alliance would collapse at first sign of possible victory.
* Alliance would collapse during any lull in combat.
3. Neutral Super Being
Neither side is allowed to bring up any 'Super Being' that would not
fight for their side. This is considered a sub rule of #2. These 'Super
Beings' include, but are not limited to: Q, Dowd, Cytherians,
Orgainians, Metrons, Trelane, Aing-Tii Monks of the Kathol Rift,
Caretakers, and Armus. On the other hand, The Emperor is allowed to
fight for the Star Wars side since he is not a neutral superbeing.
4. Popularity Comparisons
The discussion on this newsgroup is not a popularity contest, it is a
complete waste of time. Sorry, I mean it is a debate about who would
win in a military conflict. So, no Pro-SW person can bring up box
office figures or awards won and no Pro-ST person can bring up the
longevity of the series.
5. The Good Guys Always Win
This addition to the list and was the first vote that was unanimous. It
was banned because of three main reasons: Good is in the eye of the
beholder, there are examples of where the good guys do lose and, most
importantly, this is simply a literary cliché and has no place in a
military discussion.
6. Time Travel
Although time travel has been shown to be available it has also been
shown that predicting the net result of such time travel escapades is
impossible. And since we require a high level of of evidence in this NG
we decided that such debates were futile and are not be allowed.
--
ASVS Class of 2002
MKSheppard: Sir, this is Phil Skayhan from ASVS Headline News; do you
categoriall deny all rumors that you have been involved with sheep in
sexual relationships? Enigma: Who do you think I am? The Baron?
Jason L. Miles
"Jason L. Miles" <jmiles2@ nospam ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
> 3. Neutral Super Being
>
> Neither side is allowed to bring up any 'Super Being' that would not
> fight for their side. This is considered a sub rule of #2. These
> 'Super Beings' include, but are not limited to: Q, Dowd, Cytherians,
> Orgainians, Metrons, Trelane, Aing-Tii Monks of the Kathol Rift,
> Caretakers, and Armus. On the other hand, The Emperor is allowed to
> fight for the Star Wars side since he is not a neutral superbeing.
<SNIP>
As an aside, I think we should add a note here that Q is far more
likely to start the conflict for his own petty amusement than end it in
Star Trek's favor.
Tyralak
news:20090212014...@jason-miless-macbook.local:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:41:03 -0800
> "Jason L. Miles" <jmiles2@ nospam ieee.org> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> 3. Neutral Super Being
>>
>> Neither side is allowed to bring up any 'Super Being' that would not
>> fight for their side. This is considered a sub rule of #2. These
>> 'Super Beings' include, but are not limited to: Q, Dowd, Cytherians,
>> Orgainians, Metrons, Trelane, Aing-Tii Monks of the Kathol Rift,
>> Caretakers, and Armus. On the other hand, The Emperor is allowed to
>> fight for the Star Wars side since he is not a neutral superbeing.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> As an aside, I think we should add a note here that Q is far more
> likely to start the conflict for his own petty amusement than end it
in
> Star Trek's favor.
>
>
This is very true. He'd be an instigator, not a participant.
--
Tyralak,
Supreme Commander of the Imperial Romulan Warbird, Psionax
Official ASVS Token Trekkie
Wouter Valentijn
"Tyralak" <sec...@undisclosedlocation.com> schreef in bericht
news:Xns9BB03B2674C8Cse...@207.115.33.102...
> "Jason L. Miles" <jmiles2@ nospam ieee.org> wrote in
> news:20090212014...@jason-miless-macbook.local:
>
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:41:03 -0800
>> "Jason L. Miles" <jmiles2@ nospam ieee.org> wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>> 3. Neutral Super Being
>>>
>>> Neither side is allowed to bring up any 'Super Being' that would not
>>> fight for their side. This is considered a sub rule of #2. These
>>> 'Super Beings' include, but are not limited to: Q, Dowd, Cytherians,
>>> Orgainians, Metrons, Trelane, Aing-Tii Monks of the Kathol Rift,
>>> Caretakers, and Armus. On the other hand, The Emperor is allowed to
>>> fight for the Star Wars side since he is not a neutral superbeing.
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> As an aside, I think we should add a note here that Q is far more
>> likely to start the conflict for his own petty amusement than end it
> in
>> Star Trek's favor.
>>
>>
>
> This is very true. He'd be an instigator, not a participant.
I'm not sure it's that simple.
On several occasions he has helped the Federation and Picard in particular.
- He made sure the Federation knew about the Borg.
- He saved Picard's life and taught him he had made the right decisions.
- He gave Picard several hints when the Q sat in judgment of humanity.
He has a softspot for humans. Specially since the Enterprise D crew helped
him when he was without power.
www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html
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Allen W. McDonnell
"Wouter Valentijn" <li...@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:4994a000$0$197$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
While I agree he has a soft spot for HUMANS and Picard in particular he does
seek his own amusement for the most part. Given that he seems to be a
Human-ophile there is no reason to expect him to side with the Federation
over the Empire, both organizations are distinctly human organized and
oriented despite all protestations that they are multi-cultural.
As for your specific examples Sending the Enterprise to meet the Borg wasn't
doing them any favors, it was done to knock Picard off his pedestal when he
said in effect we are all grown up and we can handle anything in the galaxy
ourselves.
In your second example I presume you are referring to the dream sequence
Picard had when he was phasered in the chest and his artificial heart was
damaged? In that case there is no evidence to indicate that the whole
experience was not just a fever dream of Picard's, nobody but him witnessed
the events and nothing about the present was altered by his supposed travel
into his own past. Therefore no evidence exists to demonstrate that
anything 'real' happened.
Your third example, yes agreed he does love hinting and teasing Picard
especially and human in general until they figure out whatever lesson it is
he is trying to communicate to them at any particular time.
--
~~
Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to
look out for himself honestly,
It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying
attention.
Wouter Valentijn
> "Wouter Valentijn" <li...@valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:4994a000$0$197$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
<snip>
>>>>
>>>> As an aside, I think we should add a note here that Q is far more
>>>> likely to start the conflict for his own petty amusement than end
>>>> it
>>> in
>>>> Star Trek's favor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is very true. He'd be an instigator, not a participant.
>>
>> I'm not sure it's that simple.
>> On several occasions he has helped the Federation and Picard in
>> particular.
>> - He made sure the Federation knew about the Borg.
>> - He saved Picard's life and taught him he had made the right
>> decisions. - He gave Picard several hints when the Q sat in judgment of
>> humanity. He has a softspot for humans. Specially since the Enterprise D
>> crew
>> helped him when he was without power.
>>
>
> While I agree he has a soft spot for HUMANS and Picard in particular
> he does seek his own amusement for the most part. Given that he
> seems to be a Human-ophile there is no reason to expect him to side
> with the Federation over the Empire, both organizations are
> distinctly human organized and oriented despite all protestations
> that they are multi-cultural.
We haven't seen any non-Federation humans in canon I think in stories
involving Q. It's hard to say how he would see those.
He does seem to disrespect the organization, but maybe that's because he's
an anarchist at heart. ;-)
>
> As for your specific examples Sending the Enterprise to meet the Borg
> wasn't doing them any favors, it was done to knock Picard off his
> pedestal when he said in effect we are all grown up and we can handle
> anything in the galaxy ourselves.
Yes, but he /specifically/ used the Borg as an example!
He wanted to press their noses on the fact that the Borg were out there.
BTW the Borg handywork was already noticed in 'The Neutral Zone', but the
Federation didn't know who was behind that back then.
>
> In your second example I presume you are referring to the dream
> sequence Picard had when he was phasered in the chest and his
> artificial heart was damaged? In that case there is no evidence to
> indicate that the whole experience was not just a fever dream of
> Picard's, nobody but him witnessed the events and nothing about the
> present was altered by his supposed travel into his own past. Therefore no
> evidence exists to demonstrate that anything 'real'
> happened.
You think it (Tapestry) was only a dream?
I think most people interpreted it as an actual Q event.
>
> Your third example, yes agreed he does love hinting and teasing Picard
> especially and human in general until they figure out whatever lesson
> it is he is trying to communicate to them at any particular time.
That time (All good things) I think behind the Continuums back.
Q (the prime Q we might call him) has changed through the years. First he
started out as this shallow petty god type being, but he has grown and
became a much more positive personality. More mature.
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