MORE TEAMS MOVING?
gct...@yab.com
word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely are
any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
Gregg Ensminger
Bill Kawakami
: Just read that the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers may be moving? Any
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Florida Panthers? Already? Why?
-Bill K.
Gary Vanderploeg
Move the Jets to Hamilton, the Panthers to Minneapolis.
Hamilton Tigers
Minneapolis Panthers
hmmmm...
--
****************************************
* Gary Vander Ploeg *
* g.vand...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca *
* Hamilton, Ontario, Canada *
****************************************
Keith Techak
imak...@opus.freenet.vancouver.bc.ca wrote:
>Florida Panthers? Already? Why?
They r moving because the owner says that he is losing million dollar
a month or something like that. Anyway, I think it is pretty sure
that they will be either going to north Florida or to Nashvil(sp?)
-r
Matthew Mark Thomas
Bill Kawakami <imak...@opus.freenet.vancouver.bc.ca> wrote:
>gct...@yab.com wrote:
>: Just read that the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers may be moving? Any
>Florida Panthers? Already? Why?
Apparently, most of the Miami Arena intake goes to the NBA Heat, even when
the Panthers are the team that is playing. Huizenga (who must own every
team in Miami but the Heat) claims he is losing money and needs a new
lease.
Marc Foster
>Just read that the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers may be moving? Any
>any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
Don't forget Oklahoma City. Eddie Gaylord has shifted his efforts from
Nashville to OKC (which is where he's from, anyway). The Blazers are one
of the best draws in minor league hockey and have a new 20,000 seat arena
on the way.
When the Minnesota effort to buy the Jets falls through in 6-9 months, look
for OKC to step out from the shadows.
Marc
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Remember, if you can see the players out on the ice at least you know |
| they're not out with your daughter... - Wichita Thunder program, 1992 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Potrzebie
> Just read that the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers may be moving? Any
> word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely are
> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>
> Gregg Ensminger
>
The Jets are almost certainly moving to Minnesota next year. Last report
was the sale should have been finalized this weekend, but I read in the
paper this morning that the best estimate is now two weeks... though
nobody has yet explained where the Minnesota buyers came up with the $20
million US they were short a few months back. As for the Panthers, last
I heard they were losing a million dollars a month and would not last
much longer, with Nashville a likely new spot. As for Quebec, if the
Colisee wasn't good enough for the Nordiques, I doubt it's good enough
for another NHL team.
Joe
ANDERSON, MATTHEW C
> It'd
>be a shame to lose the only franchise in sports who's games are broadcast
>in 3 languages.
Okay, I give up: what three? Actually, I'm surprised that anybody would
bother with broadcasts in anything but English. Is there a major Hispanic
hockey following? If so, it doesn't seem to make it to Texas, where the
crowds at Reunion are just like those anywhere else.
My guess: the Panthers are broadcast in English, Spanish, and Southern
Drawl.
Matt Anderson
Department of Forest Science
Texas A&M University
College Station, Texas 77843-2135
(409)845-3219
Tim Eichman
>Okay, I give up: what three? Actually, I'm surprised that anybody would
>bother with broadcasts in anything but English. Is there a major Hispanic
>hockey following? If so, it doesn't seem to make it to Texas, where the
>crowds at Reunion are just like those anywhere else.
>My guess: the Panthers are broadcast in English, Spanish, and Southern
>Drawl.
My guess is French. Florida is not just a destination for older Americans from
the North, but also some Canadians....
Besides, don't Haitians speak French?
-Tim
DannyD
: : >: Just read that the Winnipeg Jets and Florida Panthers may be moving? Any
: : >Florida Panthers? Already? Why?
: Just shows you that the expansion teams aren't doing their homework
: properly. Why did they give Florida a second expansion team so soon
: anyway? Hamilton should have got the team. The hockey fan base is huge
: and they have one of the nicest arenas in the world. Not much chance now
: though, with Gary "anti-Canadian" Bettman running the show.
There is no problem in Miami getting people into the seats. The main
bones of contention are revenue related (like advertising in the arena,
etc.) -- most of the arena revenue goes to the NBA Heat. Even when the
team was awarded, I don't think that Huzienga was looking to stay
permanently in Miami Arena; he just can't wring any money or land out of
the city to get a new place.
As for Hamilton, how old is this "nice" arena (I mean the old Forum is
wonderful but obsolete). Does the nice arena have luxury boxes and other
goodies that make it an attractive place to be? (I don't know the answer
and would like to know). What kind of ownership groups are there in
Hamilton (is this Ottawa part two?) ? I recall a few years back when
Ottawa got the team that Hamilton was not properly financed...
-dan
dan...@cnct.com
Nimigon Marc W
Benjamin Yu
> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>
Why?
Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to America!
This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know "SHIT"
about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know what
is hockey!
Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
any comments?
HUSAIN ALI
Nimigon Marc W <4m...@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote:
> Just shows you that the expansion teams aren't doing their homework
>properly. Why did they give Florida a second expansion team so soon
>anyway? Hamilton should have got the team. The hockey fan base is huge
>and they have one of the nicest arenas in the world. Not much chance now
>though, with Gary "anti-Canadian" Bettman running the show.
According to an interview with the vice-president of the Florida
Panthers. Mr. Huzinga (spelling?) was offered a 3-month period whether he
wanted to buy an expansion franchise by Mr. Bettman. Their line is that
he jumped before he looked into a out of date facility that was built in
1988 and has no luxury boxes or club seats, concession and parking moneys
are collected by the Miami Heat (although I could be wrong - I just think
this is the case). Apparently the Miami Heat is owned by Mr.Huzinga's
brother-in-law (in name) so it seems like a dead issue, but they insist
the panthers don't get those revenue streams and a new stadium must be
built and they will lose too much money to make it themselves. It seems
very difficult to believe, given Mr. Huzinga's business history, that he
would be so stupid too make so many dumb assumptions and leap without
looking ... It may be the case that the Panthers are trying to strong arm
a sweet heart deal i.e. a stadium with luxury boxes, club seats and 20000
regular seats at a low lease - also having their hands in concessions and
parking revenues.
I still feel that Pocklington will probably move the team to
Hamilton, although major renevations have to be done to Copps if it is to
be viable... there are no luxury boxes or club seats which are absolutely
essential for a franchise to survive... now whether Pocklington can get
the city of Hamilton to pay for the renevations after he got Edmonton to
do it is another question... I sort of feel he's maxed out his
possibilities of obtaining federal money since he used that with the
Northlands renevations. However I do think that it can be done if they
launched some sort of campaign to pre-pay for luxury boxes and use that
pool of money to pay for the renevations or have some split between that
and the local government ... you'd think Pocklington would squeeze the
most out of Hamilton since they have this facility sitting not doing much
and are desperate to get a franchise, and they know that they can't get
an expansion franchise because the payoffs to both the Leafs and the
Sabres would be way too high. However I do know that during the
Northlands negotiations in 1993, Pocklington's and Hamilton's lawyers had
already had the paper work ready to contest any protest by the league
that they couldn't move to Hamilton - however Edmonton provided a
suitable deal and Pocklington decided to stick it out in Alberta. However
given the declining fan base in Edmonton, I find it amazing that season
ticket sales had dropped by 20% from last year , as of the beginning of
the season, that he be forced to move the franchise. I think the fact
that there was such a bidding war for the broadcast rights for the Leafs,
that the Oilers would be able to capitalize on this revenue to, although
as a clear no.2 ... however if they reestablished a winning tradition the
money they obtained from cable rights could very much rise, I believe
that hockey fans in the southern ontario region would probably better
than the New York market where the Rangers are king and the Islanders
couldn't get much attention even when they won 4 stanely cups in a row.
If the 80s Oilers were in Hamilton they probably would have taken over
the Toronto Market in my opinion.
Steve Cole
<y...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
Sure...
Unfortunately, we Americans are the ones that are willing to shell out the
bucks in big numbers to attend the games. My bigger concern though, is
this trend to change the sport of hockey to fit something that will get
more and more fan support and turn it into something different than it
was. I'm an American, but I fell in love with the sport before all this
"we need more goals" garbage started. I don't think it's necessary, nor
good for the sport of hockey to place all the restrictions this last batch
of rules changes place on the defensemen.
I'm living in a suberb of a city (Portland) that currently has a great
junior hockey organization (the Portland Winter Hawks), but just had a new
arena built, and now all the talk of the town is when we'll get an NHL
club. Frankly, I don't want one. ESPECIALLY if it results in a move of
yet another Canadian club. The move of the ex-Nordiques was a travesty
and a dismal break with tradition. I don't have a problem with Denver
having a team, but the best players in the world are still coming
predominately from Canada. It sucks for them to have to come down here to
make a living.
I like junior hockey because most of the clubs are still Canadian. I also
like it because it just feels purer in heart and form than the NHL. They
try to parallel the NHL rules so that the kids will be ready for the bigs
after they've put their time in at the junior level. Therefore, I'm
dealing with rules changes, but I'm very concerned about the incredibly
commercial NHL coming to my town and displacing what I consider to be the
best hockey you can still get.
Hell, I'd rather watch an AHL team than the NHL. There's just something
about 80+ percent of the teams being in the wrong country that feels too
strange.
Steve Cole
Go Winter Hawks!
David Forbis
Benjamin Yu <y...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> > word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely are
>> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>>
>Well, any teams, who is moving, will not come to Canada for 100%
>
>Why?
>
>Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to America!
>This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know "SHIT"
>about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know what
>is hockey!
>
>Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
>
>hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
>not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>any comments?
Yeah, why don't you go ahead and say "hockey's a sport for white people,
not black", so you can make your statement racial as well.
Think about what you're saying; it reeks of prejudice.
-Dave
Jerome A Dubois
>
>
>Hamilton Tigers
>Minneapolis Panthers
>
>hmmmm...
>
Try this:
Minnesota Jets and Hamilton Panthers. The Jets have sold the team to a
group in Minnesota. Meanwhile, i wouldnt be surprised if you saw Tkachuk
start to criticize the world for keeping him in Winnepeg. Btw the guy
injured his groin carrying his first check to the bank.
jer
ja...@kepler.unh.edu
__________________ _______
\ | __| . \ | V | __| What about them Nords... i mean Avalanche?
__| | __| / | | | __| I hope McNair can get more than just air!
/____|___|_\_\___|_|V|_|___| Free WARREN! Go Purple!
Tom Poole
pro sports. In reading Hockey News, you see about 3 statements referring
to hockey as a business for every one statement referring to love of the
sport. One example of this trend (in all sports) was written in Tuff Stuff,
the card collectors, magazine. In 94/95, there were 20,000 different cards
printed and they have a book value of $32,000.00. How do you get kids
involved in collecting with that kind of exploitation.
.
I enjoy watching NHL games on TV because I admire the skills of the players
and I'll attend a few games with my family. But I have no illusions about
what I'm watching. I will more of my money and efforts into youth hockey and
attending some minor league games.
.
Just MHO
.
Luck -- Tom
Your Full Name
y...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca says...
>
> > word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely
are
>> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>>
>
>Why?
>
>Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to America!
>This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know "SHIT"
>about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know
what
>is hockey!
>
>Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
>
>hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
>not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>any comments?
Just for the record, the Devils had 12 Americans on their Stanley Cup
Champion team last year. While I agree Winnipeg and Quebec are being
treated very unfairly by the league, there is no reason to start American
bashing.
GO DEVILS!!!
Gary Vanderploeg
: >Hamilton Tigers
: >Minneapolis Panthers
: >hmmmm...
: Sorry, Hamilton doesn't have the American name recognition. Call them
: the Toronto Tigers, and they may have a chance.
Hamilton doesn't have the American name recognition? And Winnipeg,
Calgary and Edmonton did when they came into the NHL? The reason
Hamilton won't get an NHL francise is that Buffalo won't allow it as 70%
(approx) of their season's tickets holders are from Niagara and St.
Catharines Ontario.
Not like Hamilton didn't have an NHL team before...Even got two Stanley Cups!
Sam Gaylord
: In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.951012161309.29977D-100000@fsf>,
: >
: > > word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely
: are
: >> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
: >>
: >Well, any teams, who is moving, will not come to Canada for 100%
: >
: >Why?
: >
: >Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to America!
: >This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know "SHIT"
: >about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know
: what
: >is hockey!
: >
: >Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
: >
: >hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
: >not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: >
: >any comments?
: Cricket is only for the English....Soccer is only for
: Europeans...Baseball is only for Americans...Rugby is only for South
: Africans...
: There's something wrong with your statement that hockey is only for
: Canadians. Get my drift?
: John
Yea, specially since I read somewhere that the national sport of Canada is
not hockey, but lacrosse.
samg
boston_blackie
>
[cut]
> I'm living in a suberb of a city (Portland) that currently has a great
> junior hockey organization (the Portland Winter Hawks), but just had a new
> arena built, and now all the talk of the town is when we'll get an NHL
> club. Frankly, I don't want one. ESPECIALLY if it results in a move of
> yet another Canadian club. The move of the ex-Nordiques was a travesty
> and a dismal break with tradition. I don't have a problem with Denver
> having a team, but the best players in the world are still coming
> predominately from Canada. It sucks for them to have to come down here to
> make a living.
Actually, I believe many (if not most) Canadian players would prefer to play in
the US because of the currency and the tax structure. Particularly in states
without a state income tax.
>
> I like junior hockey because most of the clubs are still Canadian. I also
> like it because it just feels purer in heart and form than the NHL. They
> try to parallel the NHL rules so that the kids will be ready for the bigs
> after they've put their time in at the junior level. Therefore, I'm
> dealing with rules changes, but I'm very concerned about the incredibly
> commercial NHL coming to my town and displacing what I consider to be the
> best hockey you can still get.
Try college hockey as well. It's an excellent take and IMO, one of the best
values in sport.
>
> Hell, I'd rather watch an AHL team than the NHL. There's just something
> about 80+ percent of the teams being in the wrong country that feels too
> strange.
>
You know as well as I do that Canada is not capable of supporting the NHL in its
entirety. To infer such is nonsense.
Boston Blackie
Alex A Goddard
: Yes, a few actually. First, you're an idiot. Second, take a wild guess
: at which country provides the NHL with the majority of it's operating
: revenue
Are you sure about that? I'd be surprised if more hockey revenue is
generated in the USA. The CBC broadcasting deal is far and away the
biggest piece of NHL revenues. The USA certainly leads in ticket sales,
but I'd be surprised if it leads in any other revenue category.
Alex
John Cullen
>It's amazing that you can bellow about the superiority of Canadian hockey
>when the ex-Quebec Nordiques couldn't even sell out their playoff
>games. Hockey as a religion? NOT in Quebec.
>
>What a joke.
No one is quite sure Quebec is part of Canada, so I think you should
find a better example!
Benjamin Yu
>not black", so you can make your statement racial as well.
If you think that I said such thing, you are wrong. I am Chinese, I played in
a junior hockey team. Everybody treat me the same way as to "white people"
If you talk about racial comments, why don't you say something about 100m track
and field running. Most blacks american join in track & field.
>
>Think about what you're saying; it reeks of prejudice.
>
I never never put this as Perjudice! This is not a prejudice judgement! I
went to L.A. Kings game! Most of their fan only know who is Gretzky and they
don't anymore players part from Gretzky!
We (canadians) know so much about hockey. We should deserve to get a team at
least. However, we don't get a team!
IF you think that American know much about hockey, then ask the people live in
BIg apple. They knew that they won the cup, but they don't most of NYR players
at all!!
Benjamin Yu
I agree with you 100%
Somebody has come into the senses!
I went to SJ and L.A.
Most Americans are Ban@$@$ jumper. I hate that!
I am ture Canadian hockey fan!
It is a culture that i will miss seeing Quebec and Jets gone!
Steve Slamon
: Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
:
: hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
: not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:
: any comments?
Yes, a few actually. First, you're an idiot. Second, take a wild guess
at which country provides the NHL with the majority of it's operating
revenue
It's amazing that you can bellow about the superiority of Canadian hockey
Waris Shere
>>
>>hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
>>not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>any comments?
>
>not black", so you can make your statement racial as well.
>
>
>
Please disregard those stupid comments. As a Canadian, I can
understand some bitterness towards the States because we
are losing are teams since most of our markets are too small.
However this does not mean Americans cannot appreciate hockey.
What would the NHL be without historic franchises like Boston,
Chicago, etc!! The original 6 was made of 4 American teams.
The tragedy is that the NHL is becoming commercialized and
money is taking over. 10 years ago no one gave a damn about the
NHL outside of Canada. Now it has become a trendy thing
(i.e. like in San Jose, L.A., etc.) However it is not a
culture like it is in Canada. There are true hockey fans in
both Canada and the States. There are also many 'bandwagon'
American fans who go to games because it may be a status symbol.
Unfortunately, the true fans in Canada are losing the game
because of increased popularity in the U.S. Cities with
a population of 500,000 like Winnipeg cannot compete with
cities like Denver, Atlanta, etc.
I watched and loved the Jets ever since I was a kid. Now they
are gone (one more year), and it depresses me more than anything.
But what are you gonna do????
-Sheraz Shere
e-mail "she...@dragon.princeton.edu"
swga...@mmm.com
sa...@col.hp.com (Sam Gaylord) writes:
>John Van Liempt (j...@haven.uniserve.com) wrote:
>: In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.951012161309.29977D-100000@fsf>,
>: y...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca says...
>: >
>: > > word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely
>: are
>: >> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>: >>
>: >Well, any teams, who is moving, will not come to Canada for 100%
>: >
>: >Why?
>: >
>: >Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to America!
>: >This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know "SHIT"
>: >about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know
>: what
>: >is hockey!
>: >
>: >
>: >hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
>: >not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>: >
>: >any comments?
>
>: Europeans...Baseball is only for Americans...Rugby is only for South
>: Africans...
>
>: There's something wrong with your statement that hockey is only for
>: Canadians. Get my drift?
>
>: John
>
>Yea, specially since I read somewhere that the national sport of Canada is
>not hockey, but lacrosse.
>
>samg
winter sport. This was even debated in our parliament...must have been
a slow week. 8)
Steve (swga...@mmm.com)
Hawaii Five-0
Opinions expressed herein are my own and DO NOT
necessarily represent those of 3M.
Benjamin Yu
No 11
hockey is not a game anymore, it is just another business company!
no 2
Due to the growth inflation, Canada 's business is doing very bad. Therefore
many big company (Canadian Hockey team) moved another rich places. States are
the answers for the money problems!
TO America, hockey is just "another" sport entertainment!
For Canada, it is part of the culture, people know the games and rules. It is
part of out tradition for sometimes!
I like watching hockey. I hate Garry B. He is pulling away "for the love of
game" into a big business!
I am not an idiot! I went to L.A. and SJ, many fans don't know much about the
rules of Hockey and most of their players name!
John Van Liempt
Lionhart
>Lionhart (lion...@travel-net.com) wrote:
>: >Hamilton Tigers
>: >Minneapolis Panthers
>: >hmmmm...
>: Sorry, Hamilton doesn't have the American name recognition. Call them
>: the Toronto Tigers, and they may have a chance.
>Hamilton doesn't have the American name recognition? And Winnipeg,
>Calgary and Edmonton did when they came into the NHL? The reason
>Hamilton won't get an NHL francise is that Buffalo won't allow it as 70%
>(approx) of their season's tickets holders are from Niagara and St.
>Catharines Ontario.
>Not like Hamilton didn't have an NHL team before...Even got two Stanley Cups!
Exactly the point with Quebec, Winnipeg and Edmonton. Ziegler was too
shortsighted to think TV markets when he allowed the WHA teams in.
Incidentally, the WHA merger was done only as a desperation move to
keep salaries down. Ziegler took what he thought were the strongest
teams, and best draws when he chose those three cities and Hartford
(another low-recognition name.) Unfortunately, he did not realize
that good WHA support does not translate into TV markets and big
league cities. In other words, Phoenix and Houston would support NHL
in large numbers, but not WHA.
Why do you think the league took little or no interest in the
situation in Winnipeg. The league would love it if the Oilers left as
well. Quebec was a blessing for Bettman. There are only going to be
five teams in Canada: Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, and
Calgary. All are over the 1 million mark in metro population, all are
recognized in the US. These are the only cities in Canada that
measure up to the NHL's expansion criteria of 1991 (Ottawa/Tampa Bay).
Hartford, Edmonton, and Winnipeg don't measure up to these standards.
Don't forget, the Renfrew Millionaires have one Stanley Cup under
their belts. So too does Victoria B.C. I don't see NHL in their
future.
Also, don't forget that the NHL turned Hamilton down BEFORE talk of
any compensation for Tor./Buf. was put on the table. Bettman has a
hard enough time selling NHL hockey, who in the U.S. would want to see
Hamilton on the marquee? They would think Hamilton N.J.; and that the
New Jersey Devils have changed their name or something. Fox TV would
demand a rebate for having to show Hamilton games. Even Bart and
Homer Simpson would change the channel.
How many teams has Hamilton had in hockey? As I said before, Phoenix
and Houston would support NHL in large numbers, but not WHA; howver,
even these cities supported the WHA teams that were there enough to
keep them there. Hamilton has had many teams at many levels. They
can't even support an AHL or OHA team there. As well, Buffalo's Aud
is only an hour and a half away, and it ain't sold out.
Hamilton is, and always will be, IHL/AHL calibre. Admit it, and
support that level of team. Next thing you know, Hamilton will expect
an NFL franchise....geez.
Rick Caron
Aylmer Quebec,
Ottawa Senator's fan.
Sure, Ottawa may have the worst NHL team...but it is still an NHL team (sorry Winnipeg/Quebec/Hamilton - ha ha ha)
Lionhart
> > word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How likely are
>> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>>
>Well, any teams, who is moving, will not come to Canada for 100%
>Why?
>Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to America!
>This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know "SHIT"
>about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know what
>is hockey!
>Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
>hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules Canada
>not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>any comments?
Yes. Grow up. NHL hockey will not survive as a Canadian oriented
league. Why? No money. Players want more of it. Owners want more
of it. Canadian fans don't have enough of it. Russians, Czechs,
Swedes, are coming to get money but they don't want to be paid in
Canadian dollars. They want American dollars.
NHL is now major league. Do you think the NFL would put teams in
Winnipeg and Edmonton? I don't think so. How about a MLB franchise
in Quebec? Don't think so.
For the league to survive, it needs more TV money. Which of the
following hockey tripleheaders show more promise?
Tripleheader #1.
New York vs. Atlanta.
Seattle vs. Boston.
Los Angeles vs. Phoenix (with highlights from the Cleveland/Chicago
game in progress)
OR
Tripeheader #2:
New York vs Hamilton
Winnipeg vs Boston
Los Angeles vs Edmonton (with highlights from the Quebec/Chicago game
in progress)
Now, if you were a TV executive which one would you want to be
showing? Hello, fellow Canadians? WAKE UP. Canadian cities are not
"sexy", they DON'T SELL COMMERCIALS!!!!! Why do you think the San
Antonio Texans draw less that 10,000 for a CFL game against a Canadian
opponent, while a Buffalo/Dallas NFL exhibition game draws 50,000 in
Toronto? As well, the Texans draw significantly higher with U.S.
opponents (approx 3-4 times)!!! If the league was not called the
Canadian Football League, you would see a bit more interest south of
the border.
Why do you think that the NBA KICKS THE NHL'S BUTT on TV even though
theirs is a far inferior product? Why does FOX TV AVOID showing
Canadian NHL teams? In fact, Matthew Perry (NBC's Friends) had to
battle with FOX to wear his Senators' jersey in a commercial (he is
from Ottawa and a fan of the team) as opposed to the L.A. King jersey
they wanted him to wear.
There is maybe three major league cities in Canada (Toronto, Montreal,
Vancouver) and two other NHL cities that survive on size, Canadian
hockey interest and some recognition in the U.S. (Ottawa,Calgary).
The rest are AHL/IHL teams ONLY!!!! Let's wake up and smell the back
bacon folks!
Let's face the fact that Hamilton, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Quebec are
not NHL cities. However, they would make an excellent base for a top
level feeder league for the NHL (such as the AHL or IHL).
All hail Lionhart!!
Alex A Goddard
: What about merchandising?
Not even close, I'd bet. Everyone in Canada has a hockey jersey or a
ball cap.
Alex
J william Hogan
Last I looked the populations of Ottawa and Calgary were in the 700,000 -
800,000 area. Winnipeg has 650,000 hardy souls that have lived with the
highest caliber of hockey for over 23 years.
It's simply a shame they don't have the money to continue supporting that
level of hockey.
It's easy to be cocky and arrogant now Ottawa. Just remember your
arrogence when the vultures are hovering over Ottawa's bones because YOU
couldn't generate enough revenue to continue. Judging by how your team is
run, with top draft choices avoiding the Senators like the plague, it
won't be too long...
JWH
Toronto, On.
Dave Nordquist
>Yea, specially since I read somewhere that the national sport of Canada is
>not hockey, but lacrosse.
Actually, hockey is now our official winter sport, while lacrosse is still the
official summer sport.
Blah
>
>Benjamin Yu (byu) wrote:
>
>: If you think that I said such thing, you are wrong. I am Chinese, I played in
>: a junior hockey team. Everybody treat me the same way as to "white people"
>: If you talk about racial comments, why don't you say something about 100m track
>: and field running. Most blacks american join in track & field.
>
>
>Alex
Well actually u are the more arrogant person, face the facts pal, it's not
just about black and white, U americans are stealing what we cherish, for
idiot who've never even had the thought what actually the game is about....
as for Mr Ben, i totally Agree with him, and don't even think for a sec
that u guys know as much as us when it comes to hockey, the only places we
can even think of where ppl can actually know what the game is about is the
midwest.
Blah
>
>Cricket is only for the English....Soccer is only for
>Europeans...Baseball is only for Americans...Rugby is only for South
>Africans...
>
>There's something wrong with your statement that hockey is only for
>Canadians. Get my drift?
>
>John
>
yes, fuck cricket cause it's a shitgame, Soccor, who cares,
Baseball good for u american fucks,a dn Rugby never cared much
for it, Hockey is my sport, cause i am CANADIAN
Thomas Ross
<y...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> writes:
>
> > word on where? Minnesota? Nashville? Quebec? Atlanta? How
likely are
>> any of those cities to get the Jets or Panthers?
>>
>Well, any teams, who is moving, will not come to Canada for 100%
>
>Why?
>
>Gary Bettman (jerk) 's dream..moving all Canadian base team to
America!
>This is his ultimate dream! He is an American! He doesn't know
"SHIT"
>about hockey! Moving Nashville is a big mistake b/c they don't know
what
>is hockey!
>
>Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not American!
>
>hockey is a religion for some Canadian Hockey fans! Hockey rules
Canada
>not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>any comments?
While I will agree that the notion of a hockey team in Nashville while
there is no team in Quebec does seem quite absurd, I think that you are
foolish to suggest that moving teams from Canadien cities to US cities
has anything to do with anyone's "dream". The sole reason for moving a
team from a Canadien city to the US is money. The current league
owners and President may or may not know "shit" about hockey, I am not
in a position to judge, but what they do know is where the money is.
In order to allow hockey, as a form of mass entertainment, to survive
in today's marketplace, the league must expand its fan base to compete
with American football, baseball, and basketball. Americans, as
ignorant as this may be, will never follow pro sports that Americans,
or at least American teams, do not dominate. This is one of the main
reasons why pro soccer has never really made it in the US. And let's
face it, in order for hockey to survive in today's economy it needs US
revenue.
TJR
Washington, DC USA
Linda C. McIntyre
sport.
Let's be friends. The sport is only a sport when the kids play it. Professionals
play but it is for money not the love of it.
Support youth hockey in Canada & the US.
Linda
NJDevilCup
that Americans aren't dedicated to hockey is just
plain WRONG!
While I admit there are several Americans who are
actually stupid enough to watch baseball and
basketball, there are several of us who are more
dedicated to hockey than our Canadian and
European counterparts.
I, as much as anyone, want to see teams stay in
Canada. (Hell, I lived in Minnesota during the Norm
Green crap, so I understand how painful it is to lose
a team!) But _some_ Canadians (like yourself) don't
seem to understand this, and keep trashing American
hockey fans. Grow up. If you actually talked to some
of us, you'd find out we're more alike than different.
Go Devils! 2-0-0! 2 down, 82 to go on the way back
to the Cup!
Chuck
Blueshirt1
to cry about the escalating salaries, remember it's mostly Canadians
getting paid the Big Buck.
Alex A Goddard
: Well actually u are the more arrogant person, face the facts pal,
Arrogant? Certainly. Ignorant? No.
it's not
: just about black and white, U americans are stealing what we cherish, for
: idiot who've never even had the thought what actually the game is about....
: as for Mr Ben, i totally Agree with him, and don't even think for a sec
: that u guys know as much as us when it comes to hockey, the only places we
: can even think of where ppl can actually know what the game is about is the
: midwest.
Did you even look at my address before you said this? You're completely
daft, mate.
Alex
Chelios for the Norris
>In article <45nqhg$l...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>, agod...@uoguelph.ca (Alex A Goddard) says:
>>
>>Benjamin Yu (byu) wrote:
>>
>>: If you think that I said such thing, you are wrong. I am Chinese, I played in
>>: a junior hockey team. Everybody treat me the same way as to "white people"
>>: If you talk about racial comments, why don't you say something about 100m track
>>: and field running. Most blacks american join in track & field.
>>
>>What? That's the most ignorant thing I've ever read on the internet.
>>
>>Alex
>just about black and white, U americans are stealing what we cherish, for
>idiot who've never even had the thought what actually the game is about....
>as for Mr Ben, i totally Agree with him, and don't even think for a sec
>that u guys know as much as us when it comes to hockey, the only places we
>can even think of where ppl can actually know what the game is about is the
>midwest.
I guess Mr Yu failed to notice Alex's Canadian address. Why don't
some of you Canadians who love the game go attend some NHL games. Apathy
and a glut of quality minor league hockey are the reasons the teams are heading
south. If a sport defines your nationality and heritage, thats pretty pathetic.
Keith R. Phelps
krph...@umr.edu
WIN 95: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
OS/2 Warp: "Been there, did it yesterday."
"It takes two to tango, and three to reggae."
==Stewart Copeland
T. Mellow
rules Canada
> not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> any comments?
As a Canadian-born citizen of the United States, it pains me to
see people argue over ownership of a sport. Sure the U.S. has the
money to support the pros, but the true appreciation for hockey
comes from playing and watching your kid play. The U.S. will
always support the business end of anything, but Canadians can
feel proud that the majority of hockey players come from Canada
and that the true heritage for the sport comes from such a great
country. Take pride that your neighboring country (U.S.) has
picked up on such a great thing, after all, worldwide recognition
opens doors for everyone. Anyone can spend money on tickets and
memorabilia, but it takes HEART to get up at 0500 to practice like
thousands of Canadian kids do, just because they love the sport!
Timothy Randolf Nuessler
>JWH
>Toronto, On.
Finally, some support and compassion for this burg!
Jonas Forsberg
>This last line is a low blow. Last year, the Jets averaged 13,000 to a
>game. Chicago averaged 20,000. Now if you compare that Chicago has a
>population of 2-3 million ( or even larger) to the 650,000 that live in
>Winnipeg, why doesn't Chicago have 50,000 or so fans to a game.
First off, the arena wont hold that many fans (sarcasm). How many
pro teams do you have in Winni? How many does Chicago have? Have
you ever heard of market saturation? Lets see, the Bears, Bulls and
Hawks play during the same time of year (winter months). Would that
have anything to do with it? What about other activities available
to the people of Chicago such as the theater, etc., etc... Lets look
at it from an economical stand point. What percent of the population
of Winni lives in the ghettos compared to Chicago? Rule these people
out of the race for tickets. Weather, I know it gets cold in Winni
(I've been there), but Chicago isn't called the Windy City because
it's nice during winter.
I don't have the answers, but you cannot use population as the only
gauge for your test.
Unknown
all you americans who don't know a thing
about hockey (no offence to those you do thumbs up)
wait till the olympics and canada kicks american ASS
chaos guy
choose minty
la...@ix.netcom.com
We'll match your Nedved and raise you a Bure.
Parasite
> allowed to have a baseball team? ;-)
Mike,
I believe he's saying that teams shouldnt have to move from their
canadian cities to american ones. there have always been american teams
in the NHL. but not at the expense of canadian teams.
Neil Emery
>Would that ever drive poor Benny back to China or what?
>;-)
>
>Mike
Even with that "wink" at the end, I have to say that that kind of crap
doesn't belong in Usenet
Neil Emery
>I guess Mr Yu failed to notice Alex's Canadian address. Why don't
>some of you Canadians who love the game go attend some NHL games.
Perhaps, even better, save your money and go out out to some great hockey played at the junior
levels. Even the smallest of towns are involved in great league hockey, and you'll
find that the names will become familiar, the stars will still astound you
with their play, and people around you can talk for hours about the teams'
progress. All the same elements most of us watch the NHL for, except we
aren't spoon-fed the details on tv. You might actually find, <gulp!> you have to
get off the couch and go watch the occasional game live. Let the AMericans, and
rich middle-class Canadians have their Americanized NHL, because truly
great hockey talent (to which you can afford to take a family out) is
on your doorstep, right in front of you.
> Apathy
>and a glut of quality minor league hockey are the reasons the teams are heading
>south. If a sport defines your nationality and heritage, thats pretty pathetic.
I'll take a glut of minor league talent, over $50 ticket prices any day thanks.
Sign me "happy and proud to have the glut". As for a sport defining nationality
and heritage, you'll find this in the vast majority of countries.
Arun MUTHUSWAMI
s war of words are starting to act childish. There is no better team than
than the other, let's make peace for the love of the game. Atleast both
sides have something in common =).
Arun
The newsgroup-change-name guy ;-)
In article <46275j$a...@styx.uwa.edu.au>,
Kathy Kaminski
I've just gotten a chance to read through all the postings in response to
the article you
posted on this vein. I think that I understand your frustration/anger at
the fact that
another Canadian team will be migrating to an American city come next
year, but I also
think that you have blown things out of proportion with some of your
statements. As such,
I would like to respond to a few items in what I believe was your last post:
> No 11
> hockey is not a game anymore, it is just another business company!
>
> no 2
> Due to the growth inflation, Canada 's business is doing very bad. Therefore
> many big company (Canadian Hockey team) moved another rich places. States are
> the answers for the money problems!
>
These two facts stated this way are unfortunately entirely right. The
professional teams,
owners and others involved in hockey see the game not as a sport to go out
and enjoy;
they see the money to be made (i.e., tickets, merchandise, tv sponsorship,
endorsements,
etc.). I have yet to see notice of a player signing a contract for far
less than his peers just
because he loves to play the game. It comes down to $$ and everyone
should be blamed
for this fact since the players, owners, and even the fans have made it
that way.
Now, the more inflamatory statements:
> TO America, hockey is just "another" sport entertainment!
> For Canada, it is part of the culture, people know the games and rules. It is
> part of out tradition for sometimes!
>
> I like watching hockey. I hate Garry B. He is pulling away "for the love of
> game" into a big business!
>
While I can only speak in absolutes for myself, I do believe that there is
a large segment
of the hockey watching community that would and does resent your
statements both here
and noted in your other postings! I love the game of hockey, and have so
since I was four
years old and my older brother started. I have followed the game from
Mini Mites to NHL
since that time and have become quite fluent on rules, the sport, players
and anything
else that you would like to mention. Personally, I just love to watch the
game -- watching
seven and eight year olds skate their hearts out gives me the same thrill
as seeing
Yzerman, Federov (yes, I'm from Detroit), Lemiux or Gretsky make a
stupendously talented
goal. As for the culture issue, hockey is as much a part of cultural
experience as my
religion, ethnic identity, etc.. I personally resent your gross
mischaracterization of
my ability to understand and properly appreciate the sport based entirely
upon the
nation in which I was born.
While I can understand the reasons for these postings, it's seems to me
that they have
produced nothing productive, and only resulted in a long series of
arguements and name
calling back & forth across the Internet. Since there's so much interest
in keeping hockey
teams in Canada, why not try something a bit more productive than name
calling? Maybe
start gathering names on a petition to the NHL calling for action towards
the preservation of
Canadian teams. It might not amount to much, but I believe it would be
more constructive
an outlet for your anger than continuing this thread.
P.S. You made two statements about the SJ and Kings fans. I don't think
that generalizing
the reactions/dedication/knowledge of American fans based upon your
experience with a
handfull is fair or accurate. IMHO, it would be like my making
assumptions about Canadians
and Toronto fans in particular from my experience while attending a
baseball series there.
Scott Rinn
> In <45ueg2$r...@server.icon-stl.net> mroc...@icon-stl.net (michael
> rochman) writes:
> >
> >Benjamin Yu <y...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> >
> ><much bumpf snipped>
> >>Hockey is a Canadian sport or even to some European, but not
> American!
> Canada
> >>not U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>any comments?
> If hockey rules Canada, why are most of the teams in the U.S. are
> thinking about moving to the U.S.?
> If hockey was a religion to you "great Gods of hockey" up North,
> wouldn't you be giving your 10 percent to help preserve your religion
> (I mean preserve your hockey).
> If hockey is for Canadians, why are the Americans the ones supporting
> the sport? Most teams in America have good fan support while you "great
> Gods of hockey" seem to not want to go to games.
When you say US Canadians aren't going to hockey games you are putting
us into a steriotype. Toronto, Montreal and vancouver are some of the
hardest places to get tickets. the problem is that we have small
market teams in Cities such as Edmonton and Winnipeg, that can't fill
up their stadiums.
Joe Student (from a remote site)
Okay fellow Americans, let's just come out and admit it: By slowly
relocating all Canadian NHL teams to the states, we are knocking away at
the Canadian psyche so that our full scale invasion of the great North
will be quick and easy. Our little plan seems to be working. Soon, a
stars and stripes with 51 stars!
P.S. This is sarcasm. Do not take seriously. Go (future) Schenectady
Canadiens!!!
---
Scott Surgent
sur...@imap2.asu.edu
Kevin Patrick Dooley
This is the biggest load of bull shit I've ever seen. We, in
Winnipeg sell out 90% of our arena and when the team is winning, you can't
get a seat weeks in advance. Don't blame the fans here or in any other
city you mentioned. The culprit is the large american owners who have
driven the salaries to such an amount that only huge cities, mostly in the
US can afford. In 1992 Phil Housley was the highest payed player on the
team with 600,000 a year. This we could and still can afford, 6 million
we can't. An arena can't be built that is large enough to pay these
salaries. We don't have the large corporations and TV contract to pay
these excessive salaries. Leave the fans alone. They are more loyal then
in any city and care deeply for their team. They are not deserving of
that comment.
Kevin
J. W. Wells
First of all I disagree with the nationalistic slant of the view of Hockey
presented originally.
: If hockey rules Canada, why are most of the teams in the U.S. are
: thinking about moving to the U.S.?
I think you meant something different. Would you like to define "most"
I think all of the previous 8 teams wanted to stay, but couldn't due to
$$. I'm sure Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver really want to move South
of the border.
: If hockey is for Canadians, why are the Americans the ones supporting
: the sport?
Only monetarily. Still most players come from the juniors, of which the
majority of teams are located in Canada. BTW they sell very well. Most
of the players in the juniors are Canadian as well (moot point). Many
Americans (Jeremy Roenick, Pat LaFontaine, Jamie Lagenbrunner) play
hockey in the CHL, as are some Europeans (Valeri Bure, Zdenek Nedved,
Yachmenev). It depends on your definition of "support"
Most teams in America have good fan support while you "great
: Gods of hockey" seem to not want to go to games.
Hmmm...The Maple Leafs had a 44 SEASON sold out streak, which even went
through the Ballard Years. BTW you can look that up--In the Guiness Book
of World Records, as the longest streak for selling out a sporting event.
Now what was that about Canadians not wanting to go to games?
J. W.
----
____ ____
( __ ) John W. Wells III ( __ )
|--|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|--|
|--| aa...@torfree.net, an...@freenet.carleton.ca |--|
|--| Americans, No points for 2nd place, Canada is #1 again |--|
|--|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|--|
(____) http://chat.carleton.ca/~jwwells (____)
--
Lionhart
>If hockey is so popular in Canada, why do many Canadian teams draw so few
>spectators that their Canadian owners want to move to Nashville,
>Kalamazoo or whatever?
>Why would Canadians like Lindros rather chop wood in Manitoba than play
>in Qubec?
>Why is Ottawa Senators the joke of the sports world in terms of its
>management?
>When you rersolve these issues, then you will stop the flight of Canadian
>teams to hockey wastelands like Nashville or Florida.
Vlad, you ignorant ....
First of all, let's see the American record of teams is not entirely
clean either, so let's not get preachy. It was the NEW JERSEY DEVILS
who wanted to move to Nashville.
I agree that the move of the Nordiques and imminent move of the Jets
shows that the NHL now requires major league TV markets, of which
Winnipeg, Quebec and Edmonton are not. U.S fans will not tune in to
watch those cities, as opposed to the Phoenix's and Atlanta's of the
U.S. The league has gone "prime time" and the smaller market teams
are going to have to move or fold.
However, don't assume that the American teams are so healthy. What
about the Devils, the Stanley Cup champions? They wanted to move.
What about the (ex-Minnesota) Dallas Stars? American teams will also
move to become less of a regional and more of a national sport. Teams
like the Whalers, Islanders, and Devils may also be the victims of the
leagues' new direction. As box office becomes less important, the
league needs to diversify from being in saturated T.V. markets like
the greater NYC (Connecticut,New York,New Jersey) area. As well, I
would not be surprised to see one of the L.A. teams look elsewhere.
Think it won't happen? Check out the NFL.
The reason teams are leaving Canada has nothing to do with hockey
interest--even a small child would notice that, Vlad. It has
everything to do with larger market revenues. The Canadian teams have
consistently done well, even with larger ticket prices. One example
is the Ottawa Senators, who with only 10,900 seats get more box office
revenue that the Bruins, Islanders, and Sabres. People in Canadian
cities have proven that they are willing to pay top dollar to see live
NHL games. It's not even an argument, so stick to something you know
about, Vlad.
As for Lindros "chopping wood" in Manitoba, how does your idiot
comment justify your argument. My atlas shows Manitoba as being in
Canada too. Lindros (or his mothers')' main reason for not going to
Quebec was the culture and the lack of marketablility there for Eric.
Unfortunately, the NHL owners still seem to behave like feudal lords
and don't market players and teams collectively for the good of all.
Gretzky, when he was in Edmonton, was an exception to this because he
was, well, Gretzky.
I feel that hockey doesn't belong to Canada, nor does the NHL belong
to Canada. However, hockey interest will allways be centred in
Canada; just as baseball finds its base in the US. However, Canadian
fans had better realize that for the NHL to survive, it must become
more American. Like baseball and basketball, the U.S. will become the
international meeting place for hockey's best.
One last comment, Vlad. Are you picking on the Ottawa Senators? They
are by far the joke of the sports world in regards to their
management? I think its a little early to judge, buddy. Rather than
choose the path quick mediocrity by trading for veterans, like the
Panthers, Lightning and Ducks have done, they have stuck with youth
and development. Their farm teams have significantly improved to the
point of championship quality. They have, by the Hockey News' own
judgement, the third best prospect list in the league. Granted, their
GM is not the best in the league, and they should sign Yashin and
Berard; yet there are many teams this year who have had free agent
holdouts as well that AREN'T the Senators. As well, in Yashin's case,
it is not the fault of the GM that Yashin and his agent signed a
contract that he now does not want to honour. The Yashin problem is
entirely the fault of his agent. I think that the Sens are right to
let Yashin sit. And hey, they are not hurting that bad with him in
Moscow yet.
Rick Caron
Aylmer Quebec,
Ottawa Senator's fan
.
Sure, Ottawa may have the worst NHL team...but it is still an NHL team (sorry Winnipeg/Quebec/Hamilton - ha ha ha)
Hey, we're NOT the worst team anymore...that honour goes to Montreal...hahahahahahah!
Mark Travnikoff
Dooley) writes:
>
>
>
> This is the biggest load of bull shit I've ever seen. We, in
>Winnipeg sell out 90% of our arena and when the team is winning, you
can't
>get a seat weeks in advance. Don't blame the fans here or in any
other
>city you mentioned. The culprit is the large american owners who have
>driven the salaries to such an amount that only huge cities, mostly in
the
>US can afford.
>
So are you saying that Winnipeg fans are front-runners? I don't
consider front-runners very good fans. In San Jose, the Shark's have
never posted a record above .500, but they've sold out almost every
game(San Jose is not a very big city either). And what about last
Thursday when only 9,000 fans showed up to watch the Jets play?
David Anyadike
: In <umdoole0.814223598@mira> umdo...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Kevin Patrick
: Dooley) writes:
: >
: >
: >
: > This is the biggest load of bull shit I've ever seen. We, in
: >Winnipeg sell out 90% of our arena and when the team is winning, you
: can't
: >get a seat weeks in advance. Don't blame the fans here or in any
: other
: >city you mentioned.
: And what about last
: Thursday when only 9,000 fans showed up to watch the Jets play?
Well, maybe you haven't heard, but the Winnipeg Jets are leaving the city
this year. Few people want to go to games. Some resent the 'burden' the Jets
represent to Manitoba taxpayers, and wont go to see 'millionares play a kids
game'. The Jets fans don't go because we have already gone through the
heartache of saying goodbye to the team we love. Think of it this way: You
meet this girl, and you guys fall in love and figure you'll marry her (ie.
you figure she'll be there for you the rest of your life). You've been with
her for many years when suddenly she announces she's leaving you, and moving
to another city. You bottom out... You and 15,000 of your best friends get
together to have a big cry :-)
After a while, you get over it - You realize you've had a number of GREAT
years, but they're behind you, now. 4 months later, she comes back saying
"I'll stay with you for another year, but after that I'm leaving you again".
(This is the closest analogy to what happened with the Jets that I can think
of). Do you go back with her and enjoy another year of good times only to be
dumped again, or do you ignore her and occasionally keep in touch to see how
she's doing? Well many of us have gone back to her, but a lot of Jets fans
are doing the second.
Ironically, many of the people who petitioned to have the Jets leave
Winnipeg are now begging people to go to their games because the low
attendance means higher losses for the Jets that the government (ie.
taxpayers) will have to cover.
p.s. Tell me if my analogy made any sense!
--
-Dave
-= Win some games, and they will come =-
Amir H. Raubvogel
Travnikoff ) wrote:
> So are you saying that Winnipeg fans are front-runners? I don't
> consider front-runners very good fans. In San Jose, the Shark's have
> never posted a record above .500, but they've sold out almost every
> game(San Jose is not a very big city either). And what about last
> Thursday when only 9,000 fans showed up to watch the Jets play?
San Jose is the second-largest city in California.
And within one hour's drive is the entire Bay Area, including
San Francisco and Oakland. Many millions there.
Tom from Philly
You speak the truth. I am an American fan of hockey, but I really sympathize
with Winnepeg's plight. It's a damn shame. Winnepeg should have a team.
Quebec should still have theirs. And even the New York market is not big
enough to support 3 teams. The Rangers fans are loyal. But New Jersey
has neither the tradition nor the fan base, even for a winning team. And
now Long Island doesn't have it for a loser. Give those two teams to
Quebec and Winnepeg, I say.
Life just isn't fair. Business is rearing its ugly green head in
sports more than ever. Players have no loyalty anymore to particular
teams and their cities; and owners have no sense of civic obligation.
This started with Walter O'Malley and The Brooklyn Dodgers and it has been
happening worse and worse and more and more frequently ever since. Salary
demands and demands of team owners on cities have grown more and more
preposterous ever since. Mercenaries all. How do they expect fans to show
any devotion when they have none?
Tom Blumenthal
>
> This is the biggest load of bull shit I've ever seen. We, in
> Winnipeg sell out 90% of our arena and when the team is winning, you can't
> get a seat weeks in advance. Don't blame the fans here or in any other
> city you mentioned. The culprit is the large american owners who have
> driven the salaries to such an amount that only huge cities, mostly in the
Mark Travnikoff
All the following metropolitan areas(in California) are bigger than San
Jose:
Anaheim-Santa Ana
L.A.-Long Beach
Oakland
Riverside-San Bernardino
San Diego
San Francisco
Joe Student (from a remote site)
> >
> >San Jose is the second-largest city in California.
> >
> >And within one hour's drive is the entire Bay Area, including
> >San Francisco and Oakland. Many millions there.
>
> All the following metropolitan areas(in California) are bigger than San
> Jose:
>
> Anaheim-Santa Ana
> L.A.-Long Beach
> Oakland
> Riverside-San Bernardino
> San Diego
> San Francisco
San Jose's population inside San Jose's city limits is about 800,000.
It's metro area would probably include another 400,000. On the other
hand, although the Riverside/San Berdoo metro area has over a million
people, it is spread out over a very large area, and the idividual cities
themselves have no more than 300,000 (Riverside is near that figure, SB is
around 200,000). I lived in Riverside for seven years (I went to the UC
there). It's nice to see some minor league teams in the Inland Empire,
but at this time, I doubt it could support a major league team of any
sort, and probably not even an AAA/IHL level team.
---
Scott Surgent
sur...@imap2.asu.edu
DellCry
Eagles) wrote:
> mt...@ix.netcom.com (Mark Travnikoff ) wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Now what was that about Canadians not wanting to go to games?
> >>
> >The fact is that a greater percentage of the Canadian teams (Winnipeg,
> >Edmonton, Ottawa, and formally Quebec) could not make it in Canada
> >because the fans would not support them. How many teams in America do
> >you see that want to move to Canada?
>
> Sorry, but the fact is that we Canadians DO support our teams. It is
> the American Dollar and the greed of the American owners who
> over-speculated on the growth of the sport and went ahead and
> over-paid their talent that put some Canadian teams out of business.
> TV contracts and marketing deals are what keep some of the American
> teams where they are (ie, my Islanders would have folded without
> Sports Channel's contract with them, Jersey is on the fence about
> moving to Tennessee, Minnesota is going to try to support a team for
> the second time - and for the second time it'll fail, Hartford is a
> few years commitment away from moving, and I could go on...). Have a
> look around at attendance. Look at the Canadian teams (home games)
> attendance (forget about 'Peg - they're lame duck and it's not fair to
> the fans there to expect them to support a team that's leaving them)
> and look at the American teams home attendance. I'd bet my bottom
> (Canadian) dollar that our buildings are full more often. The Isles
> are admittedly the shits right now, but 8500 fans at a recent game?
> Sheesh. Hamilton is available (Copps Coliseum is a state-of-the-art
> building and we have an ownership group (Tim Horton's Donuts) with
> deep pockets just waiting for a team (Mr. Pickett, are you
> listening?). Yes, the COMMERCIAL aspect of the NHL (is there another
> aspect today?) is dominated by Americans. American teams. American
> money. American power-brokers (like McNall - hahahahaha). But
> CANADIANS populate the benches, baby. Over two-thirds of the league
> are still Canadian. That says something about whose sport it is. But
> we'll share it with the Americans. We're good neighbours. And as much
> as I hate baseball, Americans were good enough to share baseball
> players with the two-time World Champion Blue Jays (just kidding).
>
> As for the earlier comment about Jets fans being front-runners -
> that's assinine. If you're team was leaving at the end of the season,
> I suppose you'd be out there cheering them on, eh? How many teams fill
> their building when their team is the shits? San Jose? I don't think
> so. Maybe the Hollywood types go there to clear their nasal passages
> and talk shop. And be seen. But they don't know shit about hockey(on
> average - I'm not talking about the kind of person who'd actually post
> and read articles here).
>
> Just my humble opinion. Incidentally, it's also my opinion that
> Americans and Canadians are no better or worse than each other. You've
> got baseball, football and basketball (invented by a Canadian - had to
> remind you of that), we've got hockey! Enjoy the game. It's global
> now. And let's end this string. It's a dumb discussion (so why am I
> taking part?). But I think it's as plain as the nose on my face that
> Canadians and Americans are good at different sports, although you'll
> always get your exceptions (Jeremy Roenick and Pat Lafontaine for
> example).
>
> TTFN.
>
> Tom.
Come to San Jose and see a game in person, then you can judge us. Until
then, shut up.
Sorry to flame, but I am tired of hearing this uncalled for abuse for my
city or my team. Also, we are NORTHERN California, no Hollywood types
here. A lot of engineers, but the talk between periods is hockey and we
come to see the game. And even with this year's horrible start, the games
are still selling out.
Even those new to hockey have had a team for three years now and it is the
only team in town. People follow hockey here as close as any other city in
North America (with the possible exception of Montreal or Toronto, but
even that is close these days...).
Jim Budler
>>San Jose is the second-largest city in California.
>>
>>And within one hour's drive is the entire Bay Area, including
>>San Francisco and Oakland. Many millions there.
>
>All the following metropolitan areas(in California) are bigger than San
>Jose:
>
>Anaheim-Santa Ana
>L.A.-Long Beach
>Oakland
>Riverside-San Bernardino
>San Diego
>San Francisco
Where've you been? San Jose is larger than San Francisco. The San Jose
metropolitan area is larger than the San Francisco metropolitan area.
This happens when people call San Jose a small town. It's larger than
Boston.
--
Jim Budler jim...@netcom.com
also ji...@silvlis.com and 72415...@compuserve.com
Shark Tank: 204/7/15-16
Lionhart
Yadda yadda yadda, Tim Horton's is now owned by Americans. Think they
want to invest in...Hamilton (hahaha) DON'T THINK SO!
>As for the earlier comment about Jets fans being front-runners -
>that's assinine. If you're team was leaving at the end of the season,
>I suppose you'd be out there cheering them on, eh? How many teams fill
>their building when their team is the shits? San Jose? I don't think
>so. Maybe the Hollywood types go there to clear their nasal passages
>and talk shop. And be seen. But they don't know shit about hockey(on
>average - I'm not talking about the kind of person who'd actually post
>and read articles here).
First of all I have to address the naivete expressed here. Tom, face
facts. Hamilton will NEVER get an NHL team. Learn to like WHATEVER
comes into Copps Colliseum, whether it is AHL, IHL or Junior hockey. I
know it is so hard to take for Hamiltonians but they have never
supported their hockey teams. It is very very sad that there are some
cruel irresponsible politicians and business folks who would try to
placate the townspeople of Hamilton by selling them false hopes. No
businessman or politician in Hamilton I guess has the guts to tell it
like it is. Even the Mighty Tim Hortons donut corporation can't make
U.S. fans crave tickets to see Hamilton play their favorite team.
Hell, even Canadians wouldn't go. I personally feel that those who
"pursue" a franchise in Hamilton just don't have the heart to hurt
Hamilton's feelings by being honest.
Hamilton would not draw in Canada, let alone in the U.S. Nobody I
know would go to see Hamilton. Why do you think the CFL doesn't do
well in the big cities like Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, and
Calgary? Too many Reginas and Hamiltons in the league. If I want to
see Hamilton, I will go to OHL games to see them along with the other
minor Ontario cities like Kitchener, Windsor, and Barrie...oops! I
forgot! Hamilton doesn't even have one. (guess they couldn't/wouldn't
support it an OHL team.
It is not a marketable city, and it would diminish the league much
like the Jets did. Loiok--Ottawa, Tampa, Miami, and Anaheim battled
to join the league because it was major league sport. Let's not
revert it back to a minor sport again.
As for Ottawa being included in a list of pontential moving teams..get
real. Ottawa gets more ticket revenue per year in its tiny little
arena than the Bruins or Habs. People here have money. Corporate
boxes can be filled easily. The city is marketable in the U.S. being
it is the capital and probably the fourth best known city in Canada.
Calgary as well is a known quantity. There is a huge recognition gap
in the U.S. between the big five Canadian cities (Toronto, Montreal,
Vancouver, Ottawa, and Calgary) and the next group (Winnipeg,
Edmonton, Quebec, Regina). Hamilton doesn't register anywhere outside
of maybe Buffalo.
As for American arrogance that their stadiums are filled with cash
strapped folks wake up. Hello? HELLO? Have you heard of the
Florida Panthers? The New York Islanders? The Hartford Whalers?
Hell, even the Devils had attendance and lease problems. You just may
see as many American teams move as Canadian, so don't be so smug
folks.
Richard Caron
Aylmer Quebec CANADA
Ottawa Senators #1 Fan.
On a raison de dire NON! Keep Canada UNITED!
Alex A Goddard
: Calgary and Edmonton did when they came into the NHL? The reason
: Hamilton won't get an NHL francise is that Buffalo won't allow it as 70%
: (approx) of their season's tickets holders are from Niagara and St.
: Catharines Ontario.
That's bull, mate. Canada accounts for about 30% of season tickets in
Buffalo and about 40% of "walk-up" sales. Your 70% figure is nonesense.
Check out _Cross Border Shopping: The Case of the Pro Sports Franchise_
in the April 1993 edition of the Journal of International Economics. I
won't plug the author!
Alex
Gary Vanderploeg
team, but not going to quote the whole message as you've probably already
read it, and it was quite long.
Hamilton used to have an NHL team, the Tigers, from the beginning of the
NHL to about 1926 or so when a player strike by the Tigers caused the
league owners of the time to fire all the players, the team folded after
winning three Stanley Cups.
In the early eighties, Hamilton was ready, willing, able, and going to
receive the Colorado Rockies team. The deal was done. Ballard had agreed
to it and even offered MLG for the team untill Copps could be built.
Buffalo had agreed to it with some concessions from Hamilton. Then the
city had it's municipal election and the incumbant mayor lost! The new
mayor was an anti-sports person and put the deal in the circular filing
cabinet. The team went to New Jersey instead.
When the league expanded in the early 90s, Hamilton's application was
accepted. But when they could not initally come up with the 6 mil needed
(they had 3 mil) they asked for an extension, we're denied and the city
never got a team. They had already sold 4,000 season tickets with no
team yet!!! Incidentally the Panthers had the same problem that year,
but they just didn't say anything until after the team was awarded to the
Miami. They got their extension to raise the needed 3 mil.
The only reason Hamilton doesn't have a team is because Buffalo doesn't
want it. 70% of their season ticket holders are from the Niagara, St.
Catharines and hamilton areas. They are afraid that their fans will
dissappear because of a rival team so close (New York doesn't seem to
have that problem).
--
****************************************
* Gary Vander Ploeg *
* g.vand...@freenet.hamilton.on.ca *
* Hamilton, Ontario, Canada *
****************************************
Colin Layfield
>Actually, Calgary has only about 600 000 in metro population--about the
>same as Edmonton. However, they do have *the* largest season's ticket base
>of 17000 with Philadelphia, Boston, and Detroit coming in next with 16000.
>Why does Calgary have such a big season's ticket base given its small
>metropolitan population and its product on the ice? I'd be interested in
>hearing the answer to that strange mystery myself.
The reason seems to be that since Calgary is an "oilpatch" town, many of
the larger corporations and companies buy season tickets to bring business
associates/clients to a game. Usually a good 60% of the good seats are all
suits who leave early anyways. A complete waste really but us mere mortals
could not afford one of those seats anyways :)
This is also my theory as to why Flames games are so quiet.
Colin Layfield |
Graduate Student | "It's always funny when people lose control."
The University of Calgary | - Barry Melrose, LA Kings Former Head Coach
Computer Science |
layf...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca |-
http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~layfield/home.html
Kenneth Fox
>HI,
>I would first of all like to apologize to everyone for keeping this
>thread alive, much longer than it should have
>
>but.....
>
>Doesn't it seem like the NHL has passed us here in Wpg, and in Quebec by?
>
>Thanks,
>Gordo
This thread should end. It is not an American vs Canadian issue. It is a
matter of pure economics. If Winnipeg had wealthy owners which could
afford a decent tax write-off, does anyone doubt that the Jets would stay
in Winnipeg? Economics, economics..... Hockey will continue to be the
sport of choice in Canada. The youngsters will make certain of that, just
as they are doing here in Minnesota even after the Stars left. Our
participation in hockey at the youth level has increased, and the female
participation rate is unbelievable. Too bad it takes away ice time from my
son:(
Richard St. Pierre
roots of ice hockey can be traced to Canada. However, with regards to
NHL hockey it is a question of $US Vs $Cdn.
That is a sad situation for hockey lovers across Canada! Especially
Quebec and Winnipeg at this time.
----------------------------------
Richard St. Pierre | |
Software Engineer \ /
CriTech Research ||
525 Avis Drive -- -- Montreal owns the
Suite 1 | | Stanley Cup!
Ann Arbor, MI 48160 | | It only lends it to
stpi...@critech.com | | other teams from time to time!
---------------------------------
Andrew Edgar
>In article <araubvogel-25...@198.134.145.121>, araub...@digipix.com (Amir H. Raubvogel) says:
>>
>>In article <46a1p2$k...@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, mt...@ix.netcom.com (Mark
>>Travnikoff ) wrote:
>>
>>> So are you saying that Winnipeg fans are front-runners? I don't
>>> consider front-runners very good fans. In San Jose, the Shark's have
>>> never posted a record above .500, but they've sold out almost every
>>> game(San Jose is not a very big city either). And what about last
>>> Thursday when only 9,000 fans showed up to watch the Jets play?
>>
>>
>>San Jose is the second-largest city in California.
>>
>>And within one hour's drive is the entire Bay Area, including
>>San Francisco and Oakland. Many millions there.
>That's not the point he was making. Sharks fans (of which I proudly am,
>even though their record is now the worst in the league) are probably
>the most loyal sports fans around, and they/we are AMERICANS!
>Winnepeg fans (the so called crazed Canadien hockey buffs) will not turn
>out in droves to see their team play, while most American hockey fans
>(especially Shark fans) WILL turn out in droves to see their teams,
>regardless of whether they are doing great or not.
I have to object at this point. The only reason why attendance is so
low at Winnipeg games this year is that they will not be in Winnipeg
next year. Many people have given up supporting the Jets at this point
since they are leaving. I assure you that if the deal to keep the Jets in
Winnipeg had succeeded you would have seen the arena packed to the
rafters for every game. I am sick and tired of people pointing out
what lousy attendance we are getting this year! This is a special case
of not supporting a so called "lame duck" team.
Andrew
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Edgar (Andrew...@SLMSoft.CA) |
| SLM Software Inc. Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
Timothy Randolf Nuessler
>>San Francisco and Oakland. Many millions there.
>
>That's not the point he was making. Sharks fans (of which I proudly am,
>even though their record is now the worst in the league) are probably
>the most loyal sports fans around, and they/we are AMERICANS!
>
>Winnepeg fans (the so called crazed Canadien hockey buffs) will not turn
>out in droves to see their team play, while most American hockey fans
>(especially Shark fans) WILL turn out in droves to see their teams,
>regardless of whether they are doing great or not.
>
mediocre years. We supported this team when they were the worst, and
even put up with them last year, which was abysmal. Looking at the
situation now and saying that no one supports them is really dumb because
it doesn't take into consideration the mood in the city. The fans here
really feel betrayed by the NHL and a lot of fans are not going because
of that. People in Winnipeg love hockey, and many still love the Jets.
If the team announced that it was not moving today, the very next game
would be sold out. Fans here are angry and hurt about the team leaving,
and are not coming because of that, not because they don't support the team.
Besides in May when it looked like the team might be able to stay, 40,000
people showed up to an outdoor rally that was organized in less than one
week. Winnipeggers were true fans, and loyal.
I also just heard that the final game of the regualr season sold out
about 3 weeks ago. How is San Jose doing for their last game?
A Disgruntled Hockey Fan
Tim
P.S. I hope the Jets give us one last dance at the Playoffs this year.
Fernando Pulido
Alright, I'll give you the fact that they are moving, I forgot about that.
But if you stick to the original post, you'll see that I'm right, that
Americans can be just as die hard about hockey as any Canadien.
As for San Jose, the game was sold out as usual.
Jeremias Raime
>In article <araubvogel-25...@198.134.145.121>, araub...@digipix.com (Amir H. Raubvogel) says:
>>San Jose is the second-largest city in California.
>>And within one hour's drive is the entire Bay Area, including
>>San Francisco and Oakland. Many millions there.
>That's not the point he was making. Sharks fans (of which I proudly am,
>even though their record is now the worst in the league) are probably
>the most loyal sports fans around, and they/we are AMERICANS!
>Winnepeg fans (the so called crazed Canadien hockey buffs) will not turn
>out in droves to see their team play, while most American hockey fans
>(especially Shark fans) WILL turn out in droves to see their teams,
>regardless of whether they are doing great or not.
Well, I guess you both are missing the point here. I'm sure many
Winnipeg fans must feel betrayed to here the team is moving away for
the next season. No wonder they don't so much want to see their team
play, since it really isn't their team any more.
And whoever came up with the topic, doesn't know anything about
hockey. It is for Finns!
Gordon Klassen
On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Jeremias Raime wrote:
>
> No wonder they don't so much want to see their team
> play, since it really isn't their team any more.
>
Hi Jeremias,
Last year when I went to the few games I could due to the strike, I
noticed the team playing better on the road than they did at home, could
it be the players felt they were a team without a home?
Bye
Gordo