CLOUTIER GONE !!!!
foamy
JIm
scott stephens
"foamy" <bomb...@wahs.ac> wrote in message
news:LIUqg.122874$iF6.112401@pd7tw2no...
I thought he would go there....Crow is a Cloutier fan. They deserve each
other :p
Joshua
See? You can be wrong sometimes too, Jim. So now, why don't you just
admit that Cooke is great, and should have been nominated for the Lady
Byng?
In a way, this deal makes the most sense - the biggest hurdle for Nonis
to overcome in trading Cloutier, was convincing a fellow GM that
Cloutier's surgery was successful and that he will be able to return to
form next year. Well, Crawford would have had first hand knowledge of
Cloutier's injury, surgery, rehab, etc. and would thus be able to help
facilitate the trade.
Another win-win trade... well, I guess it depends who we got back...
Josh
foamy
Got that right :-) I didn't think anyone would take him. LA gave back a second
rounder and a conditional pick-------- so I guess they felt they didn't lose
much if he bombs.
Jim
>
Yammer
foamy wrote:
>
> Got that right :-) I didn't think anyone would take him. LA gave back a second
> rounder and a conditional pick-------- so I guess they felt they didn't lose
> much if he bombs.
Like you I thought we might be stuck with him for a long while. Geez,
why not Biron? Thank you Nonis, thank you Dean Lombardi.
2nd rounder isn't chopped liver. The joy is that it is not a useless
contract coming back, just pure exhilarating cap room.
Joshua
Yammer wrote:
>
> 2nd rounder isn't chopped liver. The joy is that it is not a useless
> contract coming back, just pure exhilarating cap room.
Welcome to the NBA... err... the Current NHL...
Lobster
"Yammer" <yamm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152130874.9...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
the 2nd round
EastVanHalen
news:cUUqg.42938$B91.8392@edtnps82:
> "foamy" <bomb...@wahs.ac> wrote in message
> news:LIUqg.122874$iF6.112401@pd7tw2no...
>>I sure wouldn't have thunk it.............
>>
>> tsn.ca
>
> I thought he would go there....Crow is a Cloutier fan. They
> deserve each other :p
Heh. I hate Crawford, but I hope Cloutier plays lights out in LA.
Just 'cause.
--Steph
foamy
>See? You can be wrong sometimes too, Jim. So now, why don't you just
>admit that Cooke is great, and should have been nominated for the Lady
>Byng?
lol. There isn't enough tea in China..........
I thought Crow was just pretending to like him, after all, he saw him
play didn't he ? Of course, maybe Crow likes Cloutier because he wants
to make sure he's able to use his late April and May time share condo
in Maui.
Jim
foamy
>Like you I thought we might be stuck with him for a long while. Geez,
>why not Biron? Thank you Nonis, thank you Dean Lombardi.
>
>2nd rounder isn't chopped liver. The joy is that it is not a useless
>contract coming back, just pure exhilarating cap room.
Desperately needed cap room. With Cloutier gone they are sitting at
34.72 mill for 11 players [ includes Bourdon ]. If we assume Burrows,
Kracker, Bouck and Kesler sign their QAs, the total goes up to 37.22.
Add in Noronen at 700K, and a 7th D at 500K they're looking at 38.42.
If he's going to 42.5, it leaves him 4 mill to sign 4 players. So anyone
who thinks he was just going to take the Cloutier money and throw it
at Carter better think again.
Jim
Yammer
foamy wrote:
> If we assume Burrows, Kracker, Bouck and Kesler sign their QAs, the total goes up to 37.22.
Bouck? Well...maybe he will be the new Cooke, if Cooke becomes the new
1st line RW
Jeff
Tylorb
>
> Patrice Bergeron = 2nd rounder so you can definately get a great player in
> the 2nd round
>
>
Not the way the Canucks draft!
Tylor
Clyde Anderson
airport ") club starts......
remember, since '95 Vancouver has been a graveyard for goaltenders....anyone
care to name all the goalies that came thru the revolving door?
To name a few: Hirsch, Potvin, Burke, McLean, Brochu, Essensa, Fountain,
Hedburg, Irbe, Snow, Weekes, Auld, Cloutier and Schwab
Seems like there are more I am forgetting, but that's all I can think of
right now.
Clyde
tradervik
> foamy wrote:
>> Got that right :-) I didn't think anyone would take him. LA gave back a second
>> rounder and a conditional pick-------- so I guess they felt they didn't lose
>> much if he bombs.
>
> Like you I thought we might be stuck with him for a long while. Geez,
> why not Biron? Thank you Nonis, thank you Dean Lombardi.
Buffalo probably wants much more than a 2nd round pick for Biron.
If you look at the prominent goalies that are supposed to be available
(and you're not a die-hard anti-Cloutier fan), Cloutier is actually one
of the better deals out there. This is the list of goalies from
Tuesday's Province article:
Dan Cloutier, $2.55 million, Vancouver
Evgeni Nabokov, $5 million, San Jose
J-S Giguere, $3.99 million, Anaheim
Martin Biron, qualified for $2.1 million, Buffalo
Robert Esche, $1.0m, Philadelphia
Manny Legace, unrestricted free agent
Dominik Hasek, unrestricted free agent
Ed Belfour, unrestricted free agent
David Aebischer, restricted free agent
Cloutier is arguably better than Esche, Legace, and Aebischer, and Hasek
and Belfour are done. That leaves Biron, Nabokov and Giguere. Salary
wise, Nabokov and Giguere are far more expensive than Cloutier.
> 2nd rounder isn't chopped liver. The joy is that it is not a useless
> contract coming back, just pure exhilarating cap room.
This is the kind of deal I was expecting. And don't forget the
unspecified 2009 pick, which is probably dependent on Cloutier staying
healthy and re-signing with the Kings. A 2nd round pick for an
injury-prone goalie is pretty decent. Let's hope the conditional pick is
decent so, if Cloutier pulls a Potvin and goes on to have a couple of
great seasons in LA, the deal stays reasonable.
Michael Scheltgen
> lets see how long before the "Run Luongo out of town" (or "drive him to the
> airport ") club starts......
>
> remember, since '95 Vancouver has been a graveyard for goaltenders....anyone
> care to name all the goalies that came thru the revolving door?
>
> To name a few: Hirsch, Potvin, Burke, McLean, Brochu, Essensa, Fountain,
> Hedburg, Irbe, Snow, Weekes, Auld, Cloutier and Schwab
Irbe played well here and were not driven out of town. He was
driven out of town by the coaching staff/management. Then
played very well in Carolina. The rest of the goalies on that
list sucked while they played here except Essensa who the fans
loved, i.e., "We want Bob, we want Bob".
In short you don't really know what you're talking about.
Tobias Fünke
> I sure wouldn't have thunk it.............
Ha ha ha! This is awesome. Since we got Luongo, I've been bugging my friend,
who's a fan of the Kings, that his team will get Cloutier. After all,
they've gotten some of our other leftovers such as Potvin and Crawford. Ha
ha this is awesome.
tradervik
> lets see how long before the "Run Luongo out of town" (or "drive him to the
> airport ") club starts......
>
> remember, since '95 Vancouver has been a graveyard for goaltenders....anyone
> care to name all the goalies that came thru the revolving door?
>
> To name a few: Hirsch, Potvin, Burke, McLean, Brochu, Essensa, Fountain,
> Hedburg, Irbe, Snow, Weekes, Auld, Cloutier and Schwab
I don't remember Hirsch, Fountain, or Schwab. As for the rest:
Potvin - jeered by the fans so you might claim he was "run out of town"
Burke - wasn't here long enough and was dealt for other reasons
Brochu - had a really bad game and was immediately dumped
Essensa - the fans chanted "Bob-E" but Crow thought he was too old
Hedburg - hardly played. Had a mediocre playoff game and was immediately
in Crow's doghouse
Irbe - Brian Burke thought he was too small for the NHL
Weekes - Dumped because of "character issues".
Auld - Traded for Luongo, hardly run out of town
Cloutier - Cheered and jeered. If he hadn't been injured for most of
last season, who knows where he'd be right now.
In reviewing these players, it seems the common pattern is that it's
Crawford and Burke who are responsible for the goalie turnover, not the
fans.
Clyde Anderson
out of town, just in reference to Luongo....
I merely stated a revolving door of goalies on the rest.
Who don't know what he is talking about? No knee- jerk reaction without
absorbing what I read here!
Clyde
"Michael Scheltgen" <mjs...@econ.usask.ca> wrote in message
news:PtZqg.127157$IK3.119558@pd7tw1no...
db
> Clyde Anderson wrote:
>> lets see how long before the "Run Luongo out of town" (or "drive him to
>> the airport ") club starts......
>>
>> remember, since '95 Vancouver has been a graveyard for
>> goaltenders....anyone care to name all the goalies that came thru the
>> revolving door?
>>
>> To name a few: Hirsch, Potvin, Burke, McLean, Brochu, Essensa, Fountain,
>> Hedburg, Irbe, Snow, Weekes, Auld, Cloutier and Schwab
Yeah and look at the Vezinas they racked up after leaving. A virtual goalie
hall of fame. Exactly whom are you suggesting they should have kept?
>
> Irbe played well here and were not driven out of town. He was driven out
> of town by the coaching staff/management. Then played very well in
> Carolina. The rest of the goalies on that list sucked while they played
> here except Essensa who the fans loved, i.e., "We want Bob, we want Bob".
>
> In short you don't really know what you're talking about.
Clyde clueless? No!
Monster
"Clyde Anderson" <nos...@please.com> wrote in message
news:VGZqg.6851$pu3.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> re-read my post. there is no mention of the goalies you list below being
> run out of town, just in reference to Luongo....
>
> I merely stated a revolving door of goalies on the rest.
>
> Who don't know what he is talking about? No knee- jerk reaction without
> absorbing what I read here!
>
> Clyde
here's what you said
"lets see how long before the "Run Luongo out of town" (or "drive him to the
airport ") club starts......
remember, since '95 Vancouver has been a graveyard for goaltenders"
So you are obviously saying the fans have run goalies out of town. But as
several posters have pointed out that's just plain not true. You know what I
say ? You should shut the fuck up until you actually know what you're
talking about.
You also said
I can't argue with that. Hell, I can't even figure out what it means. I just
wanted a chance to say I think it's about the stupidest thing I've ever seen
posted. I laugh at you every time I read it.
"Who don't know what he is talking about? No knee- jerk reaction without
absorbing what I read here"
Man - that's comedy gold.
Royke
news:cUUqg.42938$B91.8392@edtnps82...
In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
hobby.
Let's keep watching the stats of Cloutier in LA. My prediction: he may well
'out-stat' Luongo. As long as LA gets him a solid backup, and they play that
backup goalie (say) 3 out of 8 games.
Raymond T. Lowe
> "scott stephens" <smac...@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:cUUqg.42938$B91.8392@edtnps82...
>>
>> "foamy" <bomb...@wahs.ac> wrote in message
>> news:LIUqg.122874$iF6.112401@pd7tw2no...
>>> I sure wouldn't have thunk it.............
>>>
>>> tsn.ca
>>>
>>> JIm
>>
>> I thought he would go there....Crow is a Cloutier fan. They deserve each
>> other :p
>
> In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
>
> This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
> based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
> hobby.
It sounds like you're one of them. Cloutier has always been more of a
question mark then a fortress. He had his share of shaky games when
he first came here. When he finally starting to play solid, a string of
injuries ensued. You always felt relieved for Cloutier after a win but
rarely confident he was able to win it by himself.
> Let's keep watching the stats of Cloutier in LA. My prediction: he may
> well 'out-stat' Luongo. As long as LA gets him a solid backup, and they
> play that backup goalie (say) 3 out of 8 games.
I say he plays 20-25 games and blows out a knee or groin.
foamy
"Royke" <ro...@canada.com> wrote:
>In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
Too bad the season wasn't 12 games long, he would have been an all star.
>This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
>based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
>hobby.
Royke, believe me when I say this isn't a personal attack, but please stick a
lightbulb up your ass and borrow a hammer.
You want to match your non-general impression or knowledge against the
posters in this group ? Bring it on. You'll discover other uses for that hammer.
>Let's keep watching the stats of Cloutier in LA. My prediction: he may well
>'out-stat' Luongo. As long as LA gets him a solid backup, and they play that
>backup goalie (say) 3 out of 8 games.
What kind of a ' prediction ' includes ' may well ' ? That's not a prediction,
that's a waffling cover your ass sucker shot which allows you an out--
regardless of the outcome.
You think Cloutier will out-perform Luongo, say it. I say not a chance in hell.
Jim
Barty
>
> This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
> based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
> hobby.
>
> Let's keep watching the stats of Cloutier in LA. My prediction: he may
> well 'out-stat' Luongo. As long as LA gets him a solid backup, and they
> play that backup goalie (say) 3 out of 8 games.
I'd agree with you if he were going to a team that had a coach who could
manage goalies. He's probably pissed to be back under Crow who is
completely hamhanded at dealing with his goalies. He will succeed for as
long as his wonky knee holds out which won't be long since Crow will only
play a backup on a back-to-back.
Ian
Doogster
"Royke" <ro...@canada.com> wrote:
> In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
Dan's record in the playoffs:
10-13, 3.31 GAA and a 0.872 Save Percentage
> This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
> based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
> hobby.
My general impression is that he accumulated good stats at the beginning
of the season when nothing was on the line and then got injured later in
the season as a result of poor conditioning. And when he was available
for the playoffs he performed quite poorly.
Doug
foamy
Raymond T. Lowe" <rtl...@BOGUStelus.net> wrote:
>> Let's keep watching the stats of Cloutier in LA. My prediction: he may
>> well 'out-stat' Luongo. As long as LA gets him a solid backup, and they
>> play that backup goalie (say) 3 out of 8 games.
>
>I say he plays 20-25 games and blows out a knee or groin.
Hopefully the latter, which takes out a sperm pathway and ensures no
further little Cloutier's the Canucks could draft.
Jim
vulgus
> Royke, believe me when I say this isn't a personal attack, but please
stick a
> lightbulb up your ass and borrow a hammer.
>
> You want to match your non-general impression or knowledge against the
> posters in this group ? Bring it on. You'll discover other uses for that
hammer.
>
Sorry, Jim. I have a tough time believing that your statements are not a
personal attack. Just the way I see it.
Read your message and see if you don't get the same impression.
> You think Cloutier will out-perform Luongo, say it. I say not a chance in
hell.
No waffling in that statement.
>
> Jim
>
>
Bob in Kits
>> other :p
>
> In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
>
> This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
> based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
> hobby.
>
> Let's keep watching the stats of Cloutier in LA. My prediction: he may
> well 'out-stat' Luongo. As long as LA gets him a solid backup, and they
> play that backup goalie (say) 3 out of 8 games.
They'll be fine as long as Cloutier doesn't have to stop any shots from
outside the blue line...
Monster
"Royke" <ro...@canada.com> wrote in message
news:Pv0rg.119337$S61.36706@edtnps90...
" he may well ". That's a real bold statement, Really going on out on a
limb.
Hard to argue with someone who says something " may well happen". It's also
hard to take them seriously.
>
>
Monster
"Doogster" <doog...@yourservice.com> wrote in message
news:doogster-D40D17...@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> In article <Pv0rg.119337$S61.36706@edtnps90>,
> "Royke" <ro...@canada.com> wrote:
>
>> In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
>
> Dan's record in the playoffs:
>
> 10-13, 3.31 GAA and a 0.872 Save Percentage
>
>> This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
>> based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
>> hobby.
>
> My general impression is that he accumulated good stats at the beginning
> of the season when nothing was on the line and then got injured later in
> the season as a result of poor conditioning.
He's actually rumoured to be in very good shape, better than most of his
team mates. I won't disagree with anything else you posted though.
vulgus
"EastVanHalen" <st...@removevcn.removebc.remove.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns97F789BD5DB10st...@216.196.97.142...
My sentiments exactly, Steph.
Clouts gets blamed more often when the team plays badly, and not praised
enough when he himself plays well. He had steadily improved his game. (not
as hot headed) Before he got injured, only Brodeur had more wins over the
previous 3 seasons. All this while playing on a team that was offensively
minded. Luongo is made out to be the second coming to lead this team to the
promised land. He was a good goalie on a bad team. I know that the
comparisons will be made between him and Cloutier as respect to this team.
This would truly be unfair. The team that Luongo will have in front of him
won't be the same as the one in front of Dan. Gone are Bertuzzi's -17.
Without Jovo, we will most likely have a defensive minded defense. Comparing
goaltenders on different teams is like comparing apples to oranges. This
team shouldn't need a goalie to "steal" a game or ten. It should be able to
win with the goalie just doing his job.
Vil
Royke
news:LIUqg.122874$iF6.112401@pd7tw2no...
>I sure wouldn't have thunk it.............
>
> tsn.ca
>
Let me add one thing about Cloutier: as a person I really liked the guy, and
I am sorry to see him go.
Royke
Simple thoughts like 'I wish Cloutier well in LA' don't even occur to you,
do they?
Royke
> In article <Pv0rg.119337$S61.36706@edtnps90>,
> "Royke" <ro...@canada.com> wrote:
>
>>In the games that Dan played last season he was 8-3-1.
>
> Too bad the season wasn't 12 games long, he would have been an all star.
>
>>This newsgroup is full of people with views that are 'general impression'
>>based, not on results. And disliking goalies seems to be their favorite
>>hobby.
>
> Royke, believe me when I say this isn't a personal attack, but please
> stick a
> lightbulb up your ass and borrow a hammer.
You are spending too much time on the Internet. Try to go out more, and
check how normal people interact.
foamy
"vulgus" <im...@home.com> wrote:
>Sorry, Jim. I have a tough time believing that your statements are not a
>personal attack. Just the way I see it.
>Read your message and see if you don't get the same impression.
Believe me when I say they are _not_ personal. To me, it's just a less genteel
way of saying I disagree with what the person said. I grew up in an environment
of ' sticks and stones will break your bones, but names can never hurt you '.
I'm sure you've told a buddy something similar to, " Oh fuck off Frank, that'll
never happen. " It doesn't mean you don't like your friend or are trying to hurt
him. It's just another way of saying piffle.
Jim
Knightlight
Taketh Clouts, giveth hope.
KL
foamy
"vulgus" <im...@home.com> wrote:
. Comparing
>goaltenders on different teams is like comparing apples to oranges. This
>team shouldn't need a goalie to "steal" a game or ten. It should be able to
>win with the goalie just doing his job.
Let's compare goalies with the same team then. Some big deal is made of
Cloutier's wins, like they were a reflection of how great he was playing. He
had 33 wins his last full year. Auld, having played a total of 14 NHL games over
3 years, is thrown in because of Cloutier's injury, and suprise ! Gets 33 wins
without stealing a single game all year. Teams which don't have a goalie who
can steal games, don't win the cup. And in Vancouver's case, don't make the
playoffs.
Jim
foamy
That's fair. From all reports he is a very nice and well liked guy. I just
didn't like the way he played his position.
Jim
BQ
Agreed, I don't think anyone here disputes he might be a terrific guy off
the ice, I bet he even likes dogs! The main knock on him was his goal
tending, and no matter what you say about the regular season, he didn't step
up to the plate in playoffs. My dislike for him goes back to the Detroit
playoff games when he let the beach ball in from the blue
line...................grrrrr, I can't forget that and I never ever felt
confident with him in goal in crucial games. I wish him well, but I just
don't want him a part of My Vancouver
Canucks....................................
foamy
"Royke" <ro...@canada.com> wrote:
>Simple thoughts like 'I wish Cloutier well in LA' don't even occur to you,
>do they?
No they don't. I hope he and LA suck. In case it hadn't occurred to you,
LA is one of the teams the Canucks have to beat out for a playoff spot.
Bert and Allen, I hope they do great.
Jim
scott stephens
> Auld, having played a total of 14 NHL games over
> 3 years, is thrown in because of Cloutier's injury, and suprise ! Gets 33
> wins
> without stealing a single game all year.
Very good point Jim....was about to post the same thing. :p
BQ
> In article <4h4ufqF...@individual.net>,
> "BQ" <dlho...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> My dislike for him goes back to the Detroit
>>playoff games when he let the beach ball in from the blue
>>line...................
>
>
> see if he really can stop a beach ball ".
Heh, that's good.
vulgus
Actually, I haven't. At least not in the recent past. And surely not to a
friend. I too grew up in the age of sticks and stones.............
I just find it a lack of respect.
I have been part of this group for the last 3 years and have seen many good
posts by you. I find you to be well informed on many subjects.
I guess it just bothers me to see someone of your intelligence stooping to a
such a level.
A friend,
Vil