Burkie junior....... a must read........
foamy
.... great story.
Keith Keller
Definitely great story. I just wish someone who knows English had
written it.
I can definitely sympathize with Brendan's discomfort being in the
locker room. Even on my rec team in the crazy liberal Bay Area, there
were quite a few homophobic comments made. They made me uncomfortable,
and I'm straight. There's a team that bills itself as "gay-friendly",
though they claim to have straight players, and the talk in the locker
room before that game was pretty bad; I basically had to look down
pretending to focus on my gear and shut up, or else I'd have made some
comments that might have gotten me kicked off the team. And this is rec
league with adults!
I really wish gay players (in all pro sports) would come out. I don't
imagine there are many, so it'd be pretty hard for them, but think how
powerful that would be for kids like Brendan, who might not get scared
out of hockey by their teammates if they knew other players had done it.
And the more players come out, the closer we'll get to Big Burkie's
dream of "this is not a story".
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Grand Mal
"Keith Keller" <kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote in message
news:h1aut6x...@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us...
> On 2009-11-24, foamy <bomb...@sulet.net> wrote:
>>
>> .... great story.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ygv3tyb
>
> Definitely great story. I just wish someone who knows English had
> written it.
>
> I can definitely sympathize with Brendan's discomfort being in the
> locker room. Even on my rec team in the crazy liberal Bay Area, there
> were quite a few homophobic comments made. They made me uncomfortable,
> and I'm straight. There's a team that bills itself as "gay-friendly",
> though they claim to have straight players, and the talk in the locker
> room before that game was pretty bad; I basically had to look down
> pretending to focus on my gear and shut up, or else I'd have made some
> comments that might have gotten me kicked off the team. And this is rec
> league with adults!
>
> I really wish gay players (in all pro sports) would come out. I don't
> imagine there are many, so it'd be pretty hard for them, but think how
> powerful that would be for kids like Brendan, who might not get scared
> out of hockey by their teammates if they knew other players had done it.
> And the more players come out, the closer we'll get to Big Burkie's
> dream of "this is not a story".
>
> --keith
Looks to me like the story is that there's no story. The guy goes on and on
and nothing happens. Brendan's team doesn't care, the coach doesn't care,
his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much? What's he saying,
what's the hook he's hanging all those words on?
Maybe that really is the story- finally, no-one cares.
I'll guarantee you one thing, the first reporter who brings it up to Brian
Burke will have worded it VERY carefully!
Big Bobby Clobber
francisco.ca.us> wrote:
> On 2009-11-24, foamy <bombe...@sulet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > .... great story.
>
> Definitely great story. I just wish someone who knows English had
> written it.
>
Yes, as a reviewer said about some other article written in that
annoying style: "The hell I do!"
Joe
Marsh
> his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much?
<snip>
> I'll guarantee you one thing, the first reporter who brings it up
to Brian
> Burke will have worded it VERY carefully!-
Why is that? If it truly is no story, if it truly doesn't matter to
Burke Sr, then what could it possibly matter if a reporter brings it
up?
I agree with you that that writer makes no point. It's just a "see
what I found out" waste of words.
Marsh
foamy
Marsh <vaughnmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Nov 24, 5:54=A0pm, "Grand Mal"
Hmmm. I'm surprised at the reaction. I was engrossed in the essence of the
story and didn't even consider writing a book review. :-)
The story for me was Burkie Baby, and the insight into the reciprocated love
he has for his family. Every month from the time of his divorce, even though
he was located on the west coast, he made a point to fly back to Boston to
visit his family. When he said he took the TO job to be closer to his family,
the Burke-haters like Pratt, who got the shit kicked out of him by Jenny,
immediately called bullshit, he's just an egomaniac blah blah.
Jim
bob
wrote:
>Looks to me like the story is that there's no story. The guy goes on and on
>and nothing happens. Brendan's team doesn't care, the coach doesn't care,
>his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much? What's he saying,
>what's the hook he's hanging all those words on?
>Maybe that really is the story- finally, no-one cares.
this is just not true... too many people still care. and i think that
was sort of the story of the story. it couldn't be a complete story
because he would have had to find some nasty quoters.
>I'll guarantee you one thing, the first reporter who brings it up to Brian
>Burke will have worded it VERY carefully!
sincerely, why would this be true if no one cares? why would burke be
asked about it by a reporter if no one cares?
Marsh
> In article <e0523f31-b19b-4231-9bc2-217e43687...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >I agree with you that that writer makes no point. It's just a "see
> >what I found out" waste of words.
>
> >Marsh
>
> Hmmm. I'm surprised at the reaction. I was engrossed in the essence
of the
> story and didn't even consider writing a book review. :-)
No homework, huh? That's an "F"
> The story for me was Burkie Baby, and the insight into the reciprocated love
> he has for his family. <snip>
...Pratt, who got the shit kicked out of him by Jenny,
> immediately called bullshit, he's just an egomaniac blah blah.
There's obviously more to Burke than he shows, Jim. People can only
go by what he shows them.
Marsh
foamy
>There's obviously more to Burke than he shows, Jim. People can only
>go by what he shows them.
Where you sit is where you stand Marsh. I always saw compassion, caring
and humor in BB. I didn't allow my dislike of some of the hockey decisions
he made, HELLO PAVEL you shithead Burke, and the goalies, to influence
my feelings towards the man.
Jim
Keith Keller
>
> Looks to me like the story is that there's no story. The guy goes on and on
> and nothing happens. Brendan's team doesn't care, the coach doesn't care,
> his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much?
Well, the writer is a complete idiot, which is why it doesn't seem like
there's a story there. It's really unfortunate that such a great story
had to get such a poor treatment.
> What's he saying,
> what's the hook he's hanging all those words on?
> Maybe that really is the story- finally, no-one cares.
That's not the story, because people *do* care. The story is that
Brendan's family and the other people who were quoted for the story
don't care. But obviously people do care, otherwise why would he have
been so upset by the homophobia in the locker room that he felt he had
to leave his high school team?
Keith Keller
>
> Hmmm. I'm surprised at the reaction. I was engrossed in the essence of the
> story and didn't even consider writing a book review. :-)
The writing was so atrociously bad that it detracted from the story
itself. A straight-ahead (no pun intended) news article would have been
perfectly fine, but Buccigross felt like he had to get cute and use a
gimmick, instead of letting the story speak for itself. Bucci, here's a
hint: you write for ESPN, not for "Choose Your Own Adventure".
> The story for me was Burkie Baby, and the insight into the reciprocated love
> he has for his family. Every month from the time of his divorce, even though
> he was located on the west coast, he made a point to fly back to Boston to
> visit his family. When he said he took the TO job to be closer to his family,
> the Burke-haters like Pratt, who got the shit kicked out of him by Jenny,
> immediately called bullshit, he's just an egomaniac blah blah.
Well, Burke probably is an egomaniac! One can be an egomaniac and still
love one's family. After all, we still love our families, right? ;-)
Marsh
I'm not sure I understand this correctly. Meaning how one looks at
things is what one is?
So, you're saying Pratt could have seen it too but chose not to?
Making him..what?
Grand Mal
"bob" <bo...@canada.com> wrote in message
news:ce6pg5l1nuat0ie2q...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:54:50 GMT, "Grand Mal" <iron...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Looks to me like the story is that there's no story. The guy goes on and
>>on
>>and nothing happens. Brendan's team doesn't care, the coach doesn't care,
>>his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much? What's he
>>saying,
>>what's the hook he's hanging all those words on?
>>Maybe that really is the story- finally, no-one cares.
>
> this is just not true... too many people still care. and i think that
> was sort of the story of the story. it couldn't be a complete story
> because he would have had to find some nasty quoters.
Maybe you're right but I don't know anyone who thinks it matters. Well,
there's been a few guys I've worked with who would have something snide to
say about it but none of them would say anything to his face, which is what
matters.
>
>>I'll guarantee you one thing, the first reporter who brings it up to Brian
>>Burke will have worded it VERY carefully!
>
> sincerely, why would this be true if no one cares? why would burke be
> asked about it by a reporter if no one cares?
No, he probably wouldn't be. When I wrote that I was thinking of Neil MacRae
calling the Sedins 'the sisters' in an interview with Burke once. I'll bet
MacRae remembers the occasion, too.
Grand Mal
> On 2009-11-25, Grand Mal <iron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Looks to me like the story is that there's no story. The guy goes on and
>> on
>> and nothing happens. Brendan's team doesn't care, the coach doesn't care,
>> his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much?
>
> Well, the writer is a complete idiot, which is why it doesn't seem like
> there's a story there. It's really unfortunate that such a great story
> had to get such a poor treatment.
>
>> What's he saying,
>> what's the hook he's hanging all those words on?
>> Maybe that really is the story- finally, no-one cares.
>
> That's not the story, because people *do* care. The story is that
> Brendan's family and the other people who were quoted for the story
> don't care. But obviously people do care, otherwise why would he have
> been so upset by the homophobia in the locker room that he felt he had
> to leave his high school team?
>
> --keith
High school's a tough place to be different, for any reason. The bigotry can
be more vocal there than anywhere else, especially on the varsity team.
Racism, misogyny, homophobia, it's all part of the locker-room macho that
feeds on itself but that's not really who those guys are. That's just them
not wanting to be seen as different.
I'm not minimizing whatever Brendan went through when he decided to quit. No
doubt it was wrenching for him. I'm just saying that a high-school locker
room isn't an accureate reflection of society. Hell's gonna get chilly
before certain things change about teen-age boys
Grand Mal
"Marsh" <vaughnmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e0523f31-b19b-4231...@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 24, 5:54 pm, "Grand Mal"
> his parents don't care, why does the writer care so much?
<snip>
> I'll guarantee you one thing, the first reporter who brings it up
to Brian
> Burke will have worded it VERY carefully!-
-Why is that? If it truly is no story, if it truly doesn't matter to
-Burke Sr, then what could it possibly matter if a reporter brings it
-up?
I've heard Burke when he thought he needed to defend his players. I was just
imagining him if he thought he was defending his son.
-I agree with you that that writer makes no point. It's just a "see
-what I found out" waste of words.
-Marsh
bob
wrote:
>> this is just not true... too many people still care. and i think that
>> was sort of the story of the story. it couldn't be a complete story
>> because he would have had to find some nasty quoters.
>
>Maybe you're right but I don't know anyone who thinks it matters. Well,
>there's been a few guys I've worked with who would have something snide to
>say about it but none of them would say anything to his face, which is what
>matters.
i know way too many people who think it matters, and meet more all the
time, but i get your point.
>>>I'll guarantee you one thing, the first reporter who brings it up to Brian
>>>Burke will have worded it VERY carefully!
>>
>> sincerely, why would this be true if no one cares? why would burke be
>> asked about it by a reporter if no one cares?
>
>No, he probably wouldn't be. When I wrote that I was thinking of Neil MacRae
>calling the Sedins 'the sisters' in an interview with Burke once. I'll bet
>MacRae remembers the occasion, too.
yeah, i didn't think of it that way. i'd love to be around when
someone makes a joke about his kid.
Victor Wainer
> On Nov 24, 8:15 pm, bombe...@sulet.net (foamy) wrote:
>> Marsh wrote:
>
> "Where you sit is where you stand Marsh"
>
> I'm not sure I understand this correctly. Meaning how one looks at
> things is what one is?
>
No, it was just a cry against the world's increasing rate of
overpopulation, and how it doesn't allow for much personal space.
:)
Keith Keller
>
> Racism, misogyny, homophobia, it's all part of the locker-room macho that
> feeds on itself but that's not really who those guys are.
I think it is really who some of those guys are. You saw Larry
Johnson's comments, right? I'd like to believe he's just trying to be
macho, but I don't.
> I'm not minimizing whatever Brendan went through when he decided to quit. No
> doubt it was wrenching for him. I'm just saying that a high-school locker
> room isn't an accureate reflection of society. Hell's gonna get chilly
> before certain things change about teen-age boys
I would like to believe this, too. My cynical side wants to force me to
believe that the only difference between teenage boys and adult men is
that some of us are better at hiding what awful beings we are.
--keith
Marsh
Good to hear from you Victor. Perspective!! :-)
Marsh
Kenji
> .... great story.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ygv3tyb
Thanks for the morning read. It was moving (I didn't mind the curious
use of second-person perspective), and thought-provoking. It does
seem odd that someone has to be the first openly gay person in pro
hockey in 2009.
When did being gay become no big deal? I was actually thinking about
that very question the other day, watching TV with the missus and
seeing Oprah interview Ellen, whose sitcom was cancelled the year
after she came out a decade ago. Now Ellen is, like, at a near-Oprah
level of TV popularity and was just added as a judge on American Idol
and whatnot. So, I think Ellen was the turning point.
foamy
<14852bc6-8756-4dda...@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Marsh <vaughnmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>"Where you sit is where you stand Marsh"
>
>I'm not sure I understand this correctly. Meaning how one looks at
>things is what one is?
The other way around Marsh. What one is, is how one looks at things.
We all see things filtered through our personal bias, prepossession,
experience, personality etc.
> So, you're saying Pratt could have seen it too but chose not to?
>Making him..what?
A dork. It's not even a conscious decision. Pratt is all about money,
things and attention. So when anyone else does something, they
obviously must be motivated in the same manner as he is.
Jim
Victor Wainer
What d'you know! There might be still reasons not to shoot me self out
there... :)
--
Victor Alejandro Wainer ~ alioscha AT mailmolly DOT com
Posted the Old Fashion Way with (Al)Pine
Keith Keller
><14852bc6-8756-4dda...@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Marsh <vaughnmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>"Where you sit is where you stand Marsh"
>>
>>I'm not sure I understand this correctly. Meaning how one looks at
>>things is what one is?
>
> The other way around Marsh. What one is, is how one looks at things.
> We all see things filtered through our personal bias, prepossession,
> experience, personality etc.
Whew! I thought you'd forgotten an "h" in sit, and was really confused.